THEMOVE - How Red Bull's Tactics in the TT Backfired | La Vuelta a España 2026 Stage 18 | THEMOVE

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin break down the Stage 18 time trial, where Tudor's Stefan Küng won the stage, and Movistar's Enric Mas limited his losses to Primož Roglič enough to hold a sizeable lead into the final two mountain stages. Johan breaks down the day's good and bad tactical moves, and they preview Friday's Stage 19, which serves up a tough mountain stage. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Ultra Pouches: Ultra is the ultimate guilt-free pouch — delivering instant focus and mental clarity, without nicotine or caffeine. New customers can use code THEMOVE to get 15% off at https://TakeUltra.com. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support our show and tell them our show sent you. Eight Sleep: Use code THEMOVE at https://eightsleep.com/themove for up to $350 off. 30 days to try it at home. Free returns if it's not for you.

I remember in 2003, for example, when it was tied with Ulrich and Lance in that last time trial. And we were doubting because Lance lost a minute and a half to Ulrich in the first time trial. So we didn't know how he was going to perform compared to Ulrich in the second time trial. And we had a minute, I think, a minute 15 gap advantage. And so we were a bit stressed out. and I put a guy in the first five kilometers. I didn't want, I put a guy, like a person from the team, every kilometer in the first five kilometers.

And they took the time of Ulrich and they took the time of Lans. And they called me straight away with the time. And after five kilometers, I knew he was on pace with Ulrich. So, you know, it's not that difficult, you know. So I don't know if they're still doing this. There's obviously a lot more technology now, but at least, from the from the GPS they didn't get split times until kilometer 11 today you know so it's it's a simple way of trying to find out if your riders on pace or not everybody welcome back to the move podcast

i'm spencer martin i'm here with johan bernille we're breaking out stage 18 of the valta as well as predicting tomorrow's stage 19 with our outcome stage preview we'll get johan's take on who's going to win i believe joan you're going to win i believe joan you're were correct about stage 18. Stefan Kung from Tudor Pro cycling wins the stage by two seconds over Kalam, Column, Column,

Cala, Thorneley, from Red Bull Borough, Hansgrove, Scottish rider, really strong, really strong right here. And then Zawala made a third, eight seconds back. Did not see that coming. Primos Roglich, top of the GC contenders, fourth. Pretty good ride, I thought. 18 seconds back. Wildenart, fifth on the day,

19 seconds back. So about where we thought he would finish. The big surprise of the day, though, is so Rogledge finishes fourth, 18 seconds back. I thought very good time trial. His average speed, 54K an hour, quite good for 32K. Enric Moss finishes 12th on the stage, 51 seconds behind Stefan Kung, only losing 32, 32 seconds, 33 seconds to Primos Roglich, and actually outriding Roglidge from the time check 2 to the finish, going three seconds faster, fifth on the day for that final stretch between time check two.

and the finish shows us he is incredibly strong time trial of his life. Oscar Onley was the next of the GC contenders. He finished, it's a little confusing because these time gaps are to Stefan Kuhn. He finished 110 down, 52 seconds behind Roglich. Jakop Ormzel was the next rider. He finished 21st, 137 down, and that is 119 behind Roglich. And then you had Richard Carapaz, not a great ride from him. He was 144 down.

and then the worst of the GC contenders. Felix, I thought this was a pretty poor time trial. 26th, 146 back, loses 128 to Roggwitz. The GC now is, Enric Musk, remains in the lead, 137 over Primus Roglich. That might be it. That might be all she wrote, Johann. I think today was the day he sealed this thing.

Felix Gall, third and 301, so pretty far down. Richard Carapas, 4th, 517, Oscar Anley, 5th, 603, Jacob Ormazel, six, seven minutes. I mean, very good ride from him, considering his age and experience level. And the big news there is he's now 57 seconds behind Onley in the white jersey. But, Johan, I want to hear your move of the day. Our move of the day, as always, is brought to you by 8 Sleep,

who also sponsors Team UAE Emirates. So if you want the same mattress topper that Tadipagatja is using to stay cool and warm, whichever one he prefers every night, just go to 8Sleep.com. com slash the move for $350 off through the end of the Volta. But Johan, what is your eight sleep move of the day? Eight sleep, by the way, Spencer, I have to say, you know, I just got it last week and I've started using it now three or four days. It's amazing.

It's a game changer. You know, the way you sleep, especially now here in Spain with the hot temperatures, I've never experienced something like this. Improves your quality of sleep tremendously. So I understand why O'Rachar and UAE are using this at all the races. I would recommend it too for, like if you live in Northern Europe, you know, you don't have a lot of AC everywhere. Like the eight sleep, there would be key. If it's London on a hot day, you'd want nothing more than an eight sleep, keeping cool at night.

It's perfect, perfect. Can't recommend it enough. For sure. Anyways, my eight sleep move of the day is for sure, Enric Maas. you know there was these calculations of how much he was going to lose would he potentially lose the jersey even but you know i think he had two minutes 10 right on primos before the stage yeah um only loses 33 seconds the time trial of the day and uh for sure you know also made a big statement uh especially that performance in the second part of the the time trial even gaining time on

primos. That's for sure my, my move of the days, but sir, no doubt about it. What do you think? I agree. I mean, we should say, I mean, we should get props to Stefan Kuhn wins the stage. First grand tour stage wins since 2024, Valta, Spania. And those are his two only individual grand tour stage ones of his career. I believe it was the final TT of the Valta, maybe the final day, or at least stage 20 in 2024, and then wins this in 2020. That's a big win for him. I feel like he's been... It was the final stage in Madrid.

I remember because I went to watch it. Yes. Yeah. And also Spencer, especially also, you know, props to him because, as we know, he comes back from a very, very serious injury. He had a really unlucky season, had a big fracture femur. I think he broke his femur in the classics. Took forever to come back.

Super complicated injury. And he won. the time trial just before the tour of Spain and Tour of Poland and now it's the time trial with a very small margin but he was the specialist in the race and so

he won it disappointing performance I would say from Aten Haeter who I also picked yesterday as a potential winner and he's not in the top 10 no he was 6th so

sorry no 9th I'm getting my divisions of three messed up. Also, we should say Stefan Kuhn, I mean, super class rider. I'd kind of forgotten this, but this is 2023. It gets six to E3, six of the Tour of Flanders, fifth at Roubae. And then I think the next year, he also top five ruby, top five ruby, was fifth at Rubet, third at dwarves or of Lander. Like, just don't really, you kind of forget how good of a rider he is.

Yeah, he's super strong, super strong. And also, if you watch the time trial in his position, you know, it's perfection. You know, it's the cadence, the position, you know, the way he, you know, he divided his effort through this time. Of 54.4 kilometers average over 33K, that's, that's very fast, super fast. I mean, to even be winning any time trials in the modern era when you're going to, think of who you're going up against. You're going up against guys like Remko and Filippa Ghana, who not only are very talented, spend a lot of time and money on their position and materials. And he's winning them. So, props to him.

But you're right. Inric Moss, this was, this was beyond what I thought he was capable of. Because Roglidge, we should just keep saying it had a good day. Like, fourth place on the day is good. And Moss, I mean, that was way less time than I thought he would lose. Even in his wildest dreams. To limit it to 33 seconds is really impressive. Yeah.

Spencer, you know, I mean, 33 seconds, it's one second per kilometer. You know, I saw some calculations out. there, you know, like say a minute, a minute 20. I even saw Dan Bingham, who's the the aeroguru apparently and is hired by Red Bull to basically, you know, take care of the aerodynamics department, time trial department, good time trialist himself. Was he not second in the World Championships pursuit? Lost, lost to, lost to Philippa Ghana, actually, with French? of a second, I think. And then remember he had the hour record for a little bit?

He had the hour record when he was kind of preparing the hour record for Philippe O'Gana. So this guy knows his stuff. I saw an interview of him and he said he felt really confident with Primos. He thought that today they could get a decent chunk of time to be in a position to launch an attack on the red jersey. He was talking between 115 and 145. man it's it's a lot better than that 33 seconds and you know speaking of speaking of that

spencer i just want to bring up something you know i saw a few things today which which really blow my mind and specifically i mean we're not going to have we have our eight sleep move of the day we have we have no sponsor for my rant of the day there's a company i want to say but we're not going to say i'm going to sponsor it myself that might rant of the day is directed towards Red Bull Bora today for a number of things. Number one, maybe the most unbelievable one. And I don't know if Gabriel can put up this picture here of Primos Roglidge crossing the finish line with, you know, if you look at this chest, you know, and you see there's a lot going on there. Like these wires are all over the place.

Yeah, it's really messy. And when I see this, I said, wait a second. So is this not the super team who thinks about everything, every little detail? They have this reportedly this super smart expert on aerodynamics. And then you see this. I mean, and then I have to think back. I said, you know, I remember, and I'm not a smart guy. You know, I just use common sense.

Since 1999, my first year as a director. none of my riders have ever in all the teams used this setup as a radio, which is, I think, makes no sense. And I just thought really simply. I said, okay, we use the same radio, but just a normal, simple wire with only an earpiece, no microphone. You know, it works. You know, you buy these little, I always bought at the beginning of the season 20,

time trial wires, I called them, which was a simple wire, just an earpiece because in a time. Where would you buy these? at a radio shop whatever like one of those electronic shops okay and you just as long as the plug is the same it works you know so we my guys had the radio and then just the wire with an earpiece so you avoid that it's you know hectic here and then also nothing can go wrong because if you look at this picture you know you see this microphone so if that's under the skin suit it's pressed and you sometimes this button gets stuck.

And then all you hear in the car is like a noise and the rider cannot hear anything. So there goes your communication. And I actually checked before going on air here because I've seen it not just with Red Bull, but with many teams. And apparently the teams, there may be exceptions. And if they're listening, here's a hint, a little bit of advice from an old, grumpy guy, you know, use these simple wires in time trials because you avoid so much problems, you know, because it can't go wrong with just a one-way earpiece. But apparently most of the

teams are using this normal radio setup with, you know, the two-way communication. It makes no sense. So I'm a bit, I'm a bit baffled actually by seeing this on, especially on a team like Red Bull with a tremendous budget. They're supposedly the super high-tech. team with their high-tech performance and aero approach. And then you see this. I mean, I said, you know, WTF, what is this? That's number one. You know, how does a super team like this not think about this?

Did you see, did you see that when Roglidge crossed the finish line? It was close up. So it was very, very obvious. Yeah. So I did see that. And a lot of thoughts about this. I mean, you're right and you're smart. Like it should just be a simple.

It goes into your air. You never have to speak back. Why have all of this, you know, just extra wire? And then the thing you would talk into, the microphone. It makes no sense. Yeah, I heard, I woke up this morning. You know, I'm making my coffee feeling pretty good about Primos. And then I hear, oh, Dan Bingham, the genius time trial guru,

Primos doesn't work with him. He thinks he's got it dialed. And I was like, that's not what I want to hear. That's not good. And then you look at his position on the day. He's got one of the worst positions in this race. And then let's bring up the picture here, Spencer, the three guys compared, you know, like you have on this picture here, Gabriel, if you could put it up,

you have Primos and you have Enric Moss in the middle and Felix Gall. I agree with you. It's the worst of the tree. And it's, it's the, like let's say five years ago, we'd be sitting here saying, oh, wow, look at this beautiful position from Primos. But if you notice it versus the other guys, the old, the old eye test. would say, well, they're too high, right? Moss and Gall are too high.

They're picking up air. But that's not what we're finding. We're finding the more you pull your hands up and you keep your back, you know, you almost like want your back tilted up because it means your hip angle is less acute, which makes you, like, let you put more power out. You can breathe better. You look at Primos, his diaphragm is like going into his legs. He can't bring his legs up and down as easy as easy.

And he's got a lot of space between his hands and his face, which are the most, important thing in time trialing. I mean, Moss is a, Moss actually in Gauls is actually pretty impressive here. Yeah. I mean, like the position of Primus is more leaning towards the old school position where, you know, back in the days, you were, you know, you tried to go as low as possible. And then you try to get your head as close as possible to your, your handlebars, right? Yeah. So, I mean, listen, obviously Primos probably thinks that that's the best for him or that's maybe how he can produce most power. I don't think so. But I bet he thinks that, right?

That's the important. I also don't know what the situation is within Red Bull. If it's true that he doesn't want to work with Bingham, you know, it's maybe one of the consequences of him not staying at the team. And he says, you know, I don't care. I do my own thing. We don't know, right? But yeah, I mean, that position is one thing. But man, when I saw that wire, you know, I thought, wait a second.

And so you know, you have to think about everything nowadays. Maybe is it something that I haven't thought about? Is it maybe because it creates more turbulence in the chest area and it's a better? I don't know. That's a joke. But, you know, it didn't, it looked, it looked horrible. It looked horrible. So you could also think, okay, maybe Primos just does whatever he wants and thinks and doesn't listen to anybody.

That's another explanation, right? But anyways, the fact, Spencer, that they're using the usual two-way communication wires to me just makes no sense at all. That's a bit of, I mean, that's the first part of my rant. I have a second part of my rant. Wait, do, can we take a break in between your rants? Let's have a quick break. Yeah. Okay.

We'll be right back after this. You don't want to miss this rants. You got to come back. We'll be right back. Everybody, this episode is brought to by Ultra Pouches. With the Vulta in its third week, let's take a little time to talk about our presenting sponsor that made this all possible, Ultra Pouches. If you're someone who needs a coffee every couple hours just to feel normal, which I have during this WELTA,

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tell them we sent you, it does really help the show. Okay, Johan, we're back from break. Second part of your rant. Go ahead. Yeah, second part of my rant, and unfortunately it's again for Red Bull, Bora. Okay, so you look at the time trial. right the time trial is a crucial uh race today for their leaders if we look at let's let's let's be

realistic we all know that felix gal is not going to win this well and that he was going to lose a lot of time today that after today he would be in a position where a miracle would be necessary for him to win and plus add to the fact that gall has already several times declared that he's racing for the podium he's not racing to win that in between the lines i think you can you can you can feel that. Primos, however, unless he also thinks that he can't win, or unless the team knows that they can't win. But Primus is in a position where you could say, well, you know, whether I'm second or third or fifth or sixth, it doesn't really matter that much. All I want is winning. He already won this race four times. So if today he took time back on, on us, and, you know,

before the time dwell, they didn't know how much time they were going to take back. If he takes back one and a half minute, all of a sudden he's in a position where the next two mountain stages, he does have a shot, maybe. It could have been a 30 second difference, you know. Yeah. It's two time bonuses that, you know, there's not that much. What does that mean that you need your, in my opinion, in these situations, the only rider of the team that could go full gas is the leader.

You cannot permit any other riders of your team. If you have a long-term plan of attacking after the time trial, you need teammates. So Primos should be the only one to go full gas. What do you see? Calum Tourney? Second. That's a huge effort. Will he be recovered from that tomorrow?

He's in good shape, but he will feel it. Yeah. Finn Fisher Black, was he sixth? He was sixth, yeah. You know, so those two riders are riders that have to be with Primos tomorrow for as long as possible. And today they went full gas. I don't understand why a team would allow that. There should be a clear instruction before the time trial.

Okay, guys, listen, we're here to win. We're going to try to win. We're going to try everything we can. Primos goes full gas, tries to take time, everybody else, active rest day. We need you guys as fresh as possible tomorrow and the day after. Those two guys, it's young riders. Obviously, they have ambitions. Tourn League could have won the time trial.

But does that really matter for a Red Bull if they have a stage win or no stage win in the Vuelta? It's not going to save their season. My question is that the team really believe that Primos can win. That's maybe also the reason why they let these young guys go full gas, they don't, they know that Primos won't win. And most likely he won't win, Spencer. Don't get me wrong. But at least try to put all the cards in your favor,

especially before the time trial, right? So on the contrary, if you look, for example, at Movistar, they did the old-fashioned way, or maybe this is just an old-fashioned way of me of thinking, right? I mean, it's also possible. Maybe these guys are so good and so well-trained that they recover, enough tomorrow and they're really good. Maybe. But at least, listen, if you have a relative rest day,

there's nobody who's going to say that the day after, you're not going to be a bit fresher. You know, all the scientists and the smart guys of today's cycling, they can tell me whatever you want. But if today you take it easy, tomorrow you're going to be better. If you look at Movistar, they have Ivan Romeo and Raul Garcia, two guys who are super important tomorrow and the day after. after. Raul Garcia finished and we're talking here about an ex-Spanish time trial champion, Raul Garcia. He finishes 114th at more than five minutes. So took it really easy.

Ivan Romeo, if you look, and I did some research on this, they did something different. Also super, super time trialist, right? I mean, he's top five in time trials, ex-world champion, under 23 time trial, yeah, last year? Yeah. I think. Yep. Yeah. Was it last year or two years ago? That'd be two years ago. Everything is longer ago than we think. Two years ago. Anyway, really good time trial list. Yeah, young guy, ambitious, you know, maybe he wanted to go. So what did they do with Ivan Romeo, which is a really good system? They made him go as fast as possible in the first two split times.

Because if you look, he's up there in the top 10. So what happens normally, if you have a guy, like that, who's timed wrong really well. You know, in the case of Enrique Mas, you can really not wait until kilometer 11 to know the split times. You need to have something before. So I'm going to guess that Ivan Romeo went fast until kilometer 22. The first 11 kilometers went super fast. So they probably took at least five different split times.

They're all split times, you know, kilometer two, four, six, eight, ten. those are times that then they use for Enric Mace's pace schedule. And then you know that your leader is on schedule. You know, like, Enric Muss was, if he's not too far off Ivan Romeo, who's a great time provost and went full gas, you know, okay, we're good. We're on pace, you know? And you don't have to wait until kilometer 11 and find out, hey, oh, shit, I'm one minute behind. Right?

So that's what they did. And it may be an old school approach because Movistar is probably more of an old school team. But in my opinion, today, they did what needed to be done. They saved their guys for tomorrow because they need, obviously, they need to defend. And they had fast split times. Of course, Primos also had fast split times with Calum Thornley, right? But, but, but, but, but there's, you, you pay for it, right? Because then those guys aren't as, you have fast split times, but you're paying a big bill.

Ivan Romero will also have gone fast, but, you know, he went from being in the top 10 to finishing one hundred and twenty thirds at more than five minutes down. So he really cruised to the finish. You can clearly see that was his task today. Fast split time for endigmas and then sit up and don't push it all the way. Do you know? Anyway, tomorrow, tomorrow we will see. if this is correct what I'm saying, right?

But at least try to put as much of the controllables in your favor. And I think that's what movie started today. Do you know who at the slowest time on the day between T2 and the finish? Ivan Romeo. Yvonne Rameo. That's how it's done. I don't think there is worried about being a minute down at Check 1. It's probably more about keeping Moss restrained.

Like, don't go too fast. You don't have to, like, just stay within the Rameo band. you're not going to blow up. And then he got to the T2 and he's flying, right? Yeah. He clearly had a lot left and he's fifth fastest on the day from T to the finish. That is wild stuff. The Red Bull, I'll explain.

It's funny you're calling this old school. This kind of sounds like it'd be a new thing that someone would pitch. Like some genius would come in and pitch this and people would like, whoa, like make your own time checks. Spencer, look, I could show you, you know, back in, I mean, of course, you know, I'm coming from a different era. You know, we didn't have digital stuff. So basically it was very simple. I'm going to quickly explain, you know. You have a writer who's a good time trial list, lances in yellow.

We don't want to wait until or he has to catch up on trying to get the yellow jersey, whatever. We have a guy who's a good time trial list. So this is his task. You go fast until the first split time. Usually the first split time was enough, you know, because once you're done in that pace and then you sit up. So basically what happened is, you know, you just. put the odometer on zero in your car

and you just have I had a paper a paper like just a few lines you know like a kilometer so and it's like five or six split times and I just had a guy next to me and every time we saw two kilometers in the car

split time, four kilometers split time. Sometimes in prologs of short time trials of 10 kilometers where there was basically no split times we took it every kilometer I remember in 2003, for example, when it was tied with Ulrich and Lance in that last time trial. And we were doubting because Lance lost a minute and a half to Ulrich in the first time trial.

So we didn't know how he was going to perform compared to Ulrich in the second time trial. And we had a minute, I think, a minute 15 gap advantage. And so we were a bit stressed out. And so I put a guy in the first five-class. kilometers, I put a guy, like a person from the team, every kilometer in the first five kilometers. And they took the time of Ulrich and they took the time of Lens. And they called me straight away with the time.

And after five kilometers, I knew he was on pace with Ulrich. So, you know, it's not that difficult, you know. So I don't know if they're still doing this. There's obviously a lot more technology now, but at least from the GPS, they didn't get split times until kilometer 11 today. You know, so it's it's a simple it's a simple way of trying to find out if your riders on pace or not. Yeah, I like the idea. It's a good idea more people should do it. I mean, not all teams are well run like machines like Movis star just grand tour winning

machines like them, but it's funny. I mean, they're clearly clicking here's my theory on red Bull because think about Mobe Star. It's odd we're talking about them being like the pinnacle of teamwork. But everybody's like Enric Moss is all in on that team. Everyone here is all in on Enric Moss. They're all working toward the same goal. Think about Red Bull. Roglitch has never messed with that team.

I doubt there's a great emotional connection there. He's leaving. Kalin-Thornley is a, does it matter for Red Bull if they win the stage? Probably not. It matters for him. So he wants to win the stage for him. Roglitz wants to do well for him. Finn Fisher Black wants to do well on the stage for him.

I don't think there's a greater strategy here. I don't think there's any letting guys go fast. No, Spencer, that must be somebody who has the authority to say to these two young guys, guys. Sorry, today, you're not going full. We need you tomorrow in case we get close to the red jersey. You know, so I'm going to give you a director. are saying that now, though? They should.

I don't think they do, but they should, you know? I don't think, yeah, I don't think they do. And I think those directions come from the leader usually. I'll tell you another little story, a funny story, in the same context. So there was one time, you know, I'm not, so there was a time trial in the tour of Switzerland. Don't remember which year. It's the only time lands in the tour of Switzerland. So he won it.

there was a time trial up Granz Montana and so I don't think Lance was in the lead I mean I know he was battling with Gilberto Simone who had I think won the Giro and so it was a long time trial probably 40 minutes or something

40 45 minutes up the climb and so we didn't have any split time so I had one rider who was a good climber and a good time trial list with this task right saying, okay, you go full gas until the second split. And then, you know, so it was the flat. And then the first part of the climb, you go.

And then from that second split, you take it easy because I will need you tomorrow. Right. Yeah. So, but I didn't go behind him. There was another director going behind him and then gave me the split times, right? So I get the split times. And, but anyways, this director said, hey, man, this guy, man, he was. flying man he he has the best time you know he has the best time on the top of the climb i said

what do you mean the best time he was supposed to sit up on the on the second part of the climb you know he ended up third in that time trial lance wanted he ended up third you guys can look it up who it is i'm not going to say it but that was enough for me to not renew his contract in the year after oh that is a good story that's that's an eye you are ruling with an iron fist I mean, it was, yeah, anyway, it was not the only reason, but it was a good, it was a good reason to, you know, I don't, I don't actually remember if I renew this. Maybe he still had a contract, but anyways, after that, at least he was on the B team, for sure. Yeah, interesting. Well, let's, you can look it up.

I mean, I'm not going to say it, but it's easy for the listeners to find out. tour of Switzerland, 2001 or so. I don't remember it was 2001 or 2002. Well, that's in it. That, that, that is an extreme. You, you definitely had control of the team. I think it's just different now. Of course.

It's different, different times, different generation. It's not the same. You know, you can't, you know, be, have that authority back from back then right now. Things have changed. I understand that. But still, you know, once in a while, a little bit of. common sense wouldn't uh would come in handy i think it's certain yes well i think now probably you know because lance looked at you a lot right to act as like the bowl to the soup that was the team

i think now it's up to the riders more so in rickmoss you wouldn't think of him as being a charismatic leader but he is riding so well right now and is so yeah he's exuding so much confidence the team gets behind him and he can tell them what to do with roglich i don't think he's paid as i mean i mean I just don't think he's built the relationships or ever bought in enough at Red Bull for them to say, like, well, I got to sacrifice my chances for Primos. He just hasn't invested that. So, like, if you think about UAE, they're a mess without Pagachar. Pagotcha shows up and everyone suddenly is doing exactly what they should be. You said it, Spencer, you know, if you have a strong leader and the leader's in a position to win and shows that he's dominating, it's a lot easier to have everybody behind the same goal, right?

Yeah, that's for sure. By the way, look who showed up. I heard many people already. I wanted to see Bobby. Bobby had a haircut. So he's looking nice and fresh. He's getting ready for his first international trip, right? He's going to Belgium in a couple of days for three weeks.

Yeah. Wow. It's going to be exciting. Yeah. That is exciting. Big times ahead for Bobby. At least it's a short flight. I took that flight recently, not too bad.

Yeah, and it's easy with, you know, he can come with me inside the plane, you know. Yeah. So that's good. It doesn't have to go into a special cage. You're going to have Bobby fans trying to guess this flight, get on this flight with you guys. Yeah, Bobby, Bobby seems to be extremely popular with our audience. So here he is. I think we could have a podcast.

It's just Bobby sitting there. It would outperform us. but what did you think of the like the gc landscape leaving this like when the dust is settled in rick moss looks like he's going to win rogletch looks like he's going to get second i would say tell me if i'm right or wrong here the two riders i was actually really impressed with oscaronle i was pretty impressed with yak good d'armuzzo actually yeah yeah the feeling like carapas didn't do great carapaz never really does that well in time trials the one i i am most disappointed and is Felix Gall.

And, you know, he's never, before this year, he had never podiumed a grand tour. So if he podiums two grand tours in a year, that's really good. You know, that's incredible. Yeah, it's, yeah. But if he can't sort this time trial situation out, I just don't, like, he's going to little trek to then do what? Like, do they, is, is he good enough for them to say you're a GC leader now? Or like, what's the future if you can't figure this out?

I think so. I think so. Listen, if somebody you can do two times podium, you're a G. leader on any team, right? There's three grand tours, right? And so it's getting a bit crowded also in a little freck. So they bought Juan Ayuso for a lot of money. So they're going to want to have him as a GC leader in some of the races.

Now there's Felix Gall. I have heard that scale Moses not too excited and is maybe looking to go somewhere else because there's other riders coming. I don't know if that's going to happen or not. Probably not. But yeah. It's a sneaky good. Derek G is pretty good, G.C.

writer. Derek G. Really good time. Charles, really good in the third week. Like, he's going to be conflicting with the call as well. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, there's a lot of races.

There's not only the grand tours. There's a lot of other stage races. These guys can do good at also, you know? So, I mean, listen, independently if Felix Gall can time trial or not, if he finishes two times on the podium of a grand tour in the same season, that's amazing. There's not that many riders who can do that or say that that they've done it.

So, you know, let's not be too hard on him. He's never going to be able to time trial, Spencer. If it's not an uphill time trial, if it's a climbing time trial, then fine. It's really unusual. I love that he exists because you don't see this anymore. Rider, like he can climb with the best almost, like almost the, the best climber and just cannot time trial. I mean, how many riders are there like that in the modern era?

There's not many. Not many. Not many. Not many. Not many. Yeah. Yeah. Fast.

It's fascinating. I mean, Enric Moss, pretty good time trialist or has turned himself into one. Well, also, Spencer, listen, the last time trial on the ground tour, and especially if you're in the form of Enric Moss right now, I, you know, I'm surprised that it's 33 seconds. but I had expected 45 seconds, which still would have been amazing. Oh, yeah. Whatever he has shown already now is like, you know,

he has amazing legs. He's in amazing shape. He's in the red jersey. He has super motivated. With two minutes 10 before this time trial, this could not go wrong. I mean, I hope I don't jinx it because, you know, there's still two big mountain stages,

really hard mountain stages. But, you know, for now, in the mountain stages, he's shown that he's the strongest. So, you don't see him. losing any time. If anything happens, he's going to take more time, I think. Yes, I agree. I mean, I did a calculation. I just took all his head-to-head time trials with Roglitch over the last four years, the amount he lost per kilometer on each one of those time trials. And it spit out 120. A minute 20 is what he would lose. So you think, man, if he limited it to a minute, he's outperforming his performance

of the last four years. Not only did he not do a minute, he did 33 seconds. So yeah. He's the strongest G.C. rider in this race. Not even really close. So who's your podium? Who's your final podium? The way it is. And Rick Mas, Primus Roglitch, Felix, Gall. Is this a good finish?

Let's say Roglitch finishes second at this Welta. Is that good for him in Red Bull? I think under the circumstances, it's amazing, Spencer. Didn't have a great season. Was focusing everything on the Vuelta. get hit by a car about three weeks, three and a half weeks before the VALTA

damage is considerable, you know. And then if we if we can, you know, we read that he was able to, he was not able to ride his bike for a while. Then I mean, then he started to ride his bike. He didn't train in preparation. He didn't

do specific training. In the three weeks before the Vuelta, he was busy trying to get better and in rehabbing. right the fact that he's now in second is a small miracle i think and uh they would have i mean patchy villa gave gave an interview before uh after the stage today and uh and said okay you know of course we were trying we were hoping but he said if we if you said before the start the start of this welter that we would have signed straight away it was that bad interesting i mean he's not shown anything

long time that would suggest he could finish second here and he's now firmly in second. So it is pretty pretty impressive. It also makes his offseason a lot more interesting because probably not going to Lotto Intermarche, I would assume. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. Go to a little trek.

Get in the mix. Like, you know what? Here's a crazy idea. I don't think it goes with the personality of prima. But. You eat? I knew you're going to say that. That definitely doesn't fit with him.

But you know where he would be a good fit, actually, is Red Bull Borahans grow? Because, like, what are their options? If he's not at this race, they're not in the GC, you know? So they get these odd, like the odd grand tour of the year. Now you're on the podium. It's not bad. Yeah. You get second at the tour, possibly second of the Volta.

and then you're going to lose that. I just, I don't know what they gain by getting rid of him, but maybe it's just not a good situation. I think it's a conflict. There's been some things that, you know, the team not really believing him anymore, 100%. He thinks that he still deserves more respect and trust. So I can see that. I can see that. Well, I mean, just on that really quick, does he deserve more respect and trust?

Because how many riders on that team have finished on the podium of a grand tour recently? Listen, we're just saying, Spencer, we're just saying this based on what we read and what we, you know, imagine. I think there probably is. Right. So, yeah. I think, listen, I think he, I think he gets the respect from the team. He's pretty much Roglidge, man. I mean, he has won so many races.

I think they support him fully until the last race he will do. So they're professional enough to do that. So, yeah. I don't think we should read more into that than what it really is. I guess it is kind of a stacked team because you think about the last few grand tours. Just think about the last one that finished. They finished second. The one before that?

No one on the podium? No. Jai Hanlon was on the podium. Jai Hanlon was third. Yeah. And then the Valta before that, they were not on the podium. The tour before that, though, they were third. and then the zero before that,

they probably would have been on the podium had Primo's not crashed out. So I guess they have Jai Henley, Remko, Abin-Apole, Florein Lipowitz, all having finished on the podium in addition to Primos Roglitz, assuming he finishes on the podium here. Yeah. So, yeah, I would love the UAE.

That would be amazing if he went to UAE. And he's leading out. I've also read somewhere, I don't know if it's true or not, it's maybe a rumor that he would potentially go back to It kind of makes a lot of sense, actually. I would love that move. I think that makes sense. Yeah.

Assuming the price is right. This is all assuming the price is right. But someone asked me. There's another team who's signing, you know, a lot of riders where apparently the budget is not an issue. Is Spinearillo? Yeah. I'm a little surprised that I'm surprised that none of this. teams are popping up in this conversation.

Tudor, yeah. Tudor and Pinerillo could be... Tudor would make sense. Tudor would make sense now, especially that Al-A-Filippe is gone. You know, there's a big budget, which is free. I mean, if you think about... I think I've heard somewhere, which actually, look, that's the money that Primos is asking for $4 million, reportedly.

That's what his agent is asking. It's pretty steep. Al-A-Filippe was apparently on a 3 million euro contract. Plus, he decided to stop straight away. So that's four months they don't have to pay, which is a million. Yeah. So that's four million, which they were they were supposed to spend and they're not spending. So I don't know.

It's an incredibly nice thing for Alafilip to do, by the way. Right. He could have seen out this contract. Easily. He could have seen it out. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. So the $3 million they're not paying next year, the million they're not paying this year.

That's a year of Primos. Also, business is quite good in the Primos Rugglesch industry. Like getting $4 million a year after this year. Pretty good. Well, first of all, they have to find someone who pays it, right? That's a lot of things. True. True.

But, wow, impressive. Well, maybe you're asking $4 million and you turn out with 3.2, you know? That's still not bad. I mean, in my mind, this all, I know EF complains about it constantly. It all just reinforces how good a deal Richard Carapest is. They're not paying that much money for him. And they're getting so much from him. Like, it is that that deal was once seen as terrible is now one of the best deals out there.

I think he gives back a lot, for sure. I mean, how many riders can win multiple tour stages in a year? There's not that many. No. And now still fighting for the podium and maybe another stage win. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

In an extra grand tour. But, Yohan, should we take a break and then preview tomorrow's stage 19? Yeah. Okay. Okay. We are back, Johan. Tomorrow's stage 19 is the first of two mountain stages. So we have stage 19 mountain stage, stage 20 mountain stage, stage 21, pretty interesting

little hilly stage in Granada to finish the race off. So 210 kilometers, 211 really tomorrow. That's long, man. That's long for the third stage. Super long, super long. And hot. And hot. Yeah, out in the heat.

I think it is slightly more mild temps. It's for just over 4,000 feet of climbing. Sorry, not feet, meters of climbing. So many, many feet of climbing. The big feature of the day is I think there's two categorized climbs, one, uncategorized and then the final climb which is 19k long at six and a half percent kind of looks easier than it is even because the last let's say 12k are quite steep like seven to eight percent six and a half to seven to eight percent last time they were here in 2022 breakaway richard

carapaz wins out of it the gc guys all finished together how do you think this is going to play out and who's going to win yeah i think uh First of all, that last climb is a lot harder than the profile tells. You know, it's a, it was to say 18K at 6.6% average. Yeah. I just saw a little video of Pedro Delgado, who is previewing all the big climes of the Vuelta. And, yeah, it's steep. There's some really steep parts.

It's deceiving because the overall percentage is less because there's some flatter parts in it. but there are certain parts of well 15% even. So that's one thing. But I think the way it's going to play out, I think it's going to be a big breakaway, as usual, as we tend to see nowadays. If you look at the profile of the first part of the stage, it's flattish, and then there's two cat two climbs where a big breakaway is going to go.

I have this fly again here, which is still the same flight than yesterday, but for some reason the fly shows up. when I'm doing my podcast. So I think big breakaway again, like 25, 30 riders. Movistar will let it go. Movistar will probably have one or two riders in the breakaway to then drop back on the last climb. So I think we're looking at a stage which will be won by the breakaway.

Same guys we've seen already. You know, there's going to be a guy like Christian Rodriguez. guess. That's another thing. Some guys are in the top 10, you know, so Santiago Vitrago will be in there for sure. Who else? It would be Marco Brenner. Marco Brenner. By the way, we just checked this, Spencer.

In 2022, so four years ago, Marco Brenner was fifth on this stage. He was 20 years old. So he could be another one, yeah. What about Seppcus? So it's going to be. Seppcus. Yeah, he's now outside of the top 10.

Yeah. He will try to go in there. Yeah, I mean, but it's going to be the same guys always. I'm going to go for Santiago Vitrago to win the stage. I think he has good legs. And he won't have to spend too much time on those, too much effort on those two category two climbs. Doesn't really need to win the sprint. If Walt Val Ard is there, I don't know if Walt is going to be.

be there. He doesn't need to be there. Well, if I would be out, I'm just, I'm taking a day off then tomorrow. I mean, yeah, I focus on the last stage, but you know, I agree. I agree because I think the last stage is in play. I mean, today he picked up 11 points, you know, so he doesn't really have to do anything now because 3-06 minus 239. He's 67 points in the lead. Matthew Brennan's not going to win more than one stage left. Yeah. You know, one additional stage. So he's probably good. Well, and the last stage is not 50 points. It's less points.

I think it's a 30-pointer. So unless Matthew Brennan wins tomorrow while it's in trouble, he's sweating it. Unless he goes in the break, takes the two intermediate sprints and then wins the last time the intermediate sprint and wins the stage. But it's not going to happen, Spencer. Yeah, probably not going to happen. It's forbidden from Matthew Brennan to go for the points jersey. Forbidden, strictly forbidden. Verboten.

even if he even if he would want it I think the team director just pulls him off the bike I think I don't think he wants to do it seems a little hard a little unnecessary

did you hear him lobbying to start the tour next year I thought that was I saw that yeah I saw that yeah I like that I like that plant that seed early Matthew

what are the odds what are the odds what are the odds plus 700 Felix Gall first first how Cepkus plus 700.

That makes a lot of sense. Enric Maas plus 700. That makes a lot of sense. Juala Meda plus 850. Bucrago plus 1,100. Marco Brenner plus 1,200. Oscar Anley plus 1,600. Yarno Wiedar plus 1900.

Christian Rodriguez plus 2,000. So you picked, wait, who did you pick again? I'm going to pick for Vitrago. Bistrago. I'm going to pick Marco Brenner plus 1,200, because I do not think this is a G. G.C. Day finish. I don't think so either.

I don't think it's from the break. later. Yeah. I mean, Sep Kus would make me a little nervous, but I'm still going to go Brenner, plus 1,200. With the acknowledgement, Sep Kuz could burn us all and win the stage. How would that be for Visma? Like, it just throw another guy in the mix. Let's get another stage win. Listen, why not? Why not? Why not? It's possible. Why not? Yeah, pretty impressive. But, yeah, I think it is going to be breakaway. Breakaway gets a big gap. Do we see gaps in the G. I think the only thing that can happen is that Enric Moss takes more time. I don't think he will try unless he sees something really, like a huge opportunity that Primos is struggling. But the last time they came up here, the four G.C. riders finished together. I see them together also tomorrow. Yeah, I agree. I think so too.

All right, Johan, we'll be back to break this down tomorrow and then preview stage 20. but thanks for joining us and we'll talk soon. Okay, thanks. Okay, bye.