THEMOVE - IRONMAN KONA 2024 Ft. Craig Alexander & Jimmy Riccitello | THEMOVE

Episode Date: October 27, 2024

Lance is joined by Craig Alexander & Jimmy Riccitello to break down IRONMAN and Kona. 2024. They discuss how the race played out and what it is needed to be an effective triathlete.  Zwift: This adjustability makes Zwift Ride perfect for anyone in the house to use and at $1,299.99 it’s a game-changer so head to https://Zwift.com now to check it out. And join WEDU for our rides on Zwift which start back this week. WEDU Wednesday is our casual, no drop ride and SUFFER Sunday for those wanting to push the limits.  ROKA: Listeners can enter code THEMOVE at checkout to receive a 20% discount on their first order at https://www.roka.com/themove Ketone-IQ: 30% off your first sub order + free 6 pack when you use the link: https://www.ketone.com/themove AG1: Try AG1 and get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D3K2 AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase at https://www.drinkag1.com/themove OneSkin: OneSkin is the world's first skin longevity company. By focusing on the cellular aspects of aging, OneSkin keeps your skin looking and acting younger for longer. Get started today with 15% off using code THEMOVE at https://oneskin.co   

I get asked a lot by people, you know, I want to do a triathlon or I want to do an Ironman, even a half Ironman. What do I need to know? What do I need to do? And you guys have way more experience than I, but based on my experience, what I tell folks is it's not a three sport event. It's a four sport event. It's swim, hike, run, nutrition.

All right, everybody, welcome back to the move podcast talking about the iron man world championships from 2024 and yes they were held in kona on the big island of hawaii what a pleasure i am joined by none other than craig alexander three-time winner of this race absolute legend in the sport of triathlon. Dude still looks like he should be out there racing. Came on the Zoom. I was like, oh, shit. You look ready to go, buddy. Well, first of all, thanks for having me on.

Man, I'm just trying to keep up with you in high rocks. Just trying to stay in shape for life. There we go. There we go. Hey, you get up up there you're 51 i'm 53 i'm proud of where we are also joined uh been on the show many many times and and uh was you know this is a fun story was with jimmy was well jimmy's been known as a lot of things he was known as is sort of my sidekick protector, uh, big brother when I did triathlons as a teenager. And we told the story many times and I'm eternally grateful for that, um,

guardianship, so to speak back, gosh, Oh my Lord, almost 40 years ago. Uh, and then was just, and that was sort of known as, as we continued to be training buddies. But now, um, I think you're most known and is for your son who we've just Matthews continued to progress and just gets better and better. And it's fun to watch. So that's now I think what what everybody knows you. But that last name is very distinct. And so we get asked all the time when we talk about cycling. Where's the great the next great American or the next great crop of americans his name's always in there so fun to watch jimmy it is for me as well yeah oh sure and definitely uh i don't have the

the palmars that you guys have but i'm definitely matthew's dad Yeah. 61 years old too, by the way, I got you guys on that. Yeah, that's right. 60, 60. I'm going to hit it myself. Wow. Another just, we are going to talk about the Ironman here in a second, but Jimmy as his dad, I am, I am genuinely curious about this. I don't think I'll ever scratch that I know I will never have a child race on the pro tour so I don't know what this would be like

but are there any nerves we know the sports dangerous we know stuff happens I would imagine if my son was right I'd be nervous you know turn on the television it's a rainy day technical there's been other crashes I'd be nervous, you know, turn on the television. It's a rainy day. It's technical. There's been other crashes. I'd be scared and nervous.

Yeah. I, I didn't anticipate that, but I can't, the level of anxiety, I guess every race day, man, you know, he's in Europe, I'm in Arizona, two o'clock. I wake up, get on Twitter, you know, crash on the shit, you know he's in europe i'm in arizona two o'clock i wake up get on twitter you know crash on the shit you know no names and numbers but yeah i never i didn't worry and i'm sure you were the same way back when we all raced um i don't know i never thought anything bad was gonna happen to me ever um but now watching yeah it, it's tough, man. And there's the danger. Then there's the, you know,

how they deal with the weight of expectations, all things that you can't control. And again, I never really thought about seriously, but yeah, nervous wreck, man. Look at me, look at my hair. I'm almost as gray as you. You have hair. Sort of. A little bit of business, then we're going to get into all the action. Because this one has a lot to talk about.

Patrick Lange winning his third Ironman at the age of, what is it, almost 39 years old, which I just have a whole lot of thoughts about. I love it. We just all touched on how old we are, at least according to our passports. Boy, you got to root for the 39-year-old guy. I mean, come on. But before we do, today's show brought to you by Zwift. So they just released the Zwift Ride, an all-new smart bike that is changing the indoor game and making it easier and more affordable than ever before to get started riding indoors. Now, you know, this is a true story. I was not

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watching you know there'll be one on tonight during the, during Sunday night football. Yeah. I think they're doing well. I just got one of those with rides about a month. Yeah. Like you, mate. I love being outdoors. Love being on the road. Love being on the trails, but sometimes it's just the better option. Yep. Yep. Well now, I mean, as much as you love being outdoors, like we all do, I mean, I get asked all the time. I mean, cars are people

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The Move listeners get 20% off. Just go to ROKA, R-O-K-A, roka.com. Enter the code, The Move, at checkout. 20% off, roka.com. Code is The Move. All right. Let's talk about Patrick Lange. All right. What you guys just just let's just go around the horn and I'll I'll I'll come at the end here. But just high level thoughts of this race of the athlete himself.

I think the journey. I watched a lot this morning and read a lot of the interviews, very touching to hear about the emotional part of this with his mother passing and some conversations they had towards the end of her life. But at this age for a sport, like in fact, a lot of endurance sports where the trend is younger and younger and younger, certainly in cycling, 39 year old guy been many, many years since he won breaks the course record runs 237 lots to talk about croy what do you think yeah i think the course record is one thing we'll get to that in a minute it was an amazing performance and first and foremost he just beat everybody else obviously got to the line first so i think the trend you talked about in cycling has been the same in triathlon. A lot of the current cropper superstars are in their sort of mid-20s.

We've seen sort of a move back to a lot of the talented up-and-coming athletes just going straight to the longer distance events, which has been awesome to see actually bringing a lot of speed back. But I think, you know, human physiology is, as you get older, suited to these endurance events and also the maturity and the experience, which you can't get overnight. So I think for a lot of athletes, they get to a certain point in life and it's not really age that precludes them,

particularly in triathlon or an ultra endurance event like that. It's other things in life, other business opportunities, family, other things that take priority and you don't live it 24-7, 365 days of the year. And, you know, I know with Patrick, he doesn't have kids. He's still ultra motivated. I didn't realize he was 39. Actually, I heard someone say

you say he turned 38 in august whatever he's in his late 30s um i saw both i saw 38 and a 39 so yeah for the for the purpose of this conversation i thought making him sound older sounded cooler but it's one of the nonetheless late nonetheless mate it's it's an amazing performance. It's his third title here. Yeah, I just think he's a great athlete. I mean, I read a few things this morning that almost trying to diminish what he's done by saying he's just well-suited to this course. Well, he got a silver medal in Nice last year, which is a course he's probably more suited to with, you know,

the net vert in Nice is more than here i mean there's there's some i mean you guys know the course lance you've obviously lived out here and ridden out here there's i want to say there's close to 6 000 avert here but it's a different profile than nice it's just up and down and up and down which i think suits a bigger more powerful i mean you're punching over these climbs in the big chain ring and carrying a lot of the speed. And NICE is probably a course that I thought might suit Patrick. Cause I know he's a pretty good defender. He loves the technical aspects of the sport. So,

and he, and he had a great race in NICE last year. So yeah, I mean, he's not just a runner. He was fourth out of the water yesterday and I've seen him. I want to say one of his previous races here, which didn't go so well, but he was in the top two or three out of the water that year as well so the man can swim

he can bike what was interesting yesterday for me was being one of the first onto the bike it gave him a few options in in how we wanted to race a few of the you know the big hitters the horsepower came through on the bike but he got up to Harvey in a great position. And coming down from Harvey, and for me in this race, that's where I always started to heat up. You know, you make the turn at Harvey, you've got that six-mile descent, which is really quick. Typically you've got a sort of a tail crosswind there.

And then you hit some of those sort of rollers as you're stepping back down to Kauai High. I think that's the time in the race you start getting warmer, you know, and you've got to start managing yourself. Hopefully you've been on your hydration and nutrition early. But, you know, Patrick started getting distanced from a lot of the other contenders at that point. And the question was, has he just over-biked to stay with them?

And is he starting to hurt or is this more a tactical play? And, you know, for me, when I saw them come in after the 112 miles, I was standing about a quarter of a mile before the end of the bike. I didn't see a guy just hanging on. I saw a guy attacking into T2. So I'm thinking, oh, this has been his tactical play. He's been holding a little back and very disciplined, experienced move. And now he's just saying, cut me loose.

And, you know, from the first strides of the marathon course, I didn't, I mean, Sam had a nice lead, but you could see Patrick was moving forward and what the game plan was. And he just looked amazing. I also read this morning that his bike split here was, I think his best in this race by 10 minutes, it was 16 minutes quicker than he rode here two years ago, which I think speaks a little bit to the aerodynamics. I know that the boys are always playing around with hand position, bottle placement. They're in the tunnel every year on the velodrome.

But I think with, as you guys know, with that sort of a time gap between his best bikes but see that speaks to the conditions as well that that they had on the course and i mean i just thought all around from top to bottom he checked all the boxes beautiful swim tough ride in the beginning and then played smart showed a bit of discipline and experience kept the core body temperature in check. And, you know, that's not being a weak bike rider. That's being a smart racer.

That's knowing your strengths and understanding that if I want to win this race, I'm probably going to have to run in the 230. So I need to manage myself well and bike in a way that I can do that. And it was, in the end, it was a convincing win. I think he was seven minutes clear. I also read this morning it was the biggest end it was a convincing win i think he was seven or seven minutes clear i also read this morning it was the the biggest margin of victory in a while so maybe it was dominating um but you know across the board it was it was a great race to be on the ground for 16 men under eight hours um a lot of great bike splits cam worth um a guy you you guys know well

you know well vance i mean i loveance. I mean, I love Cam. Went to the Olympics for rowing. Can smash out huge numbers on the rowing, obviously, and rides in the Pro Peloton. Did Paris-Roubaix one year and then jumped off and ran a half marathon because he wanted to run a – I mean, I just love Cam. He had an incredible race yesterday. You know, it was a ways back out of the swim,

biked through and then had a great run to finish seventh. So, yeah, a lot of great storylines. I thought the race as a whole was, yeah, I want to say it was the best Kona I've seen. And hats off to Patrick. You just can't find fault anywhere. He's a super consistent athlete over this distance and just versatile and consistent across the disciplines.

So it was a masterclass, really. Yeah. As you said, checked all the boxes. By the way, one note on Cam Wurf. I thought that was maybe the biggest Strava flex of all time. You know, rides Roubaix. Okay. A lot of guys put their pair of Roubaix on Strava.

Great. And then. He put his run off the bike on strava next activity half marathon run i was like okay all right yeah mic drop he's a lunatic he's an ass yeah yeah yeah jimmy what do you think and 40 as well right he's a four-year-old guy and i think that speaks to what stands out to me i ran into patrick um prior to race day and he sounded calm you know like got nothing to prove here that said i've got i've got uh an objective and that was clearly to to win this race and i think his experience paid a big time here you know he like like bro he was saying the knock on patrick at least what i've heard um is that he doesn't ride well that he did he he sits in you know just doesn't do any work on the bike which you know the bottom line the guy finds ways to win and i think people just they just get they just

get bitter you know how is this guy doing and and especially kona but also you know second in east last year he's he's got it all and people don't don't think that he has it all and i don't think that he has it all and i don't know why he doesn't get that that respect as an all-arounder but he clearly you know i went to the press conference and a lot of the guys were talking about trying to keep up with the uber cycles and that they had to based on what layla did i think a couple years ago um and and long ago he just said you know my my strategy was to you know i felt like if we were close enough on the bike that that the runners would prevail and um and i think he all his experience and color factored into that to that strategy and he said that when he got to the turnaround and saw that he was whatever it was five minutes back he He's like, Oh, no big deal. And I think he got out to maybe, maybe nine minutes or so in the end,

but whatever, whatever, however he managed that race, he was the only guy he ran two 37. The next fastest guy was Matt Hanson at two 45 and I'm in a gap at the end. It was all the run and nobody else, whether it was their effort on the bike or hydration nutrition yeah and these guys missed they missed the boat and he covered all the bases obviously because he got off he was on fire on that run from step one and just never let up and it was it was cool if you believe what you read and of course with, with the time checks and GPS systems of,

but I read a couple of the articles where, and I think the lay person can understand this and get it good. Keep in mind, swam 2.4, uh, wrote a hundred 12 gets off, runs the first 10 K at a five 35 pace. Now to me, I'm like,K at a 535 pace.

Now, to me, I'm like, okay, the guy can run. That's almost a strategic move because he knows that that's signaling like, hey, to everybody. First of all, I think he passed seven or eight guys in the first 10K. But Lalo knows that, knows he's coming. He hears those footsteps, and then he does get it Right. He, he hears those footsteps and then, and then he does get it down to five minutes and then it just, just says, all right, I got this. But when we talk about checking every box, cause this just study in the race,

you realize, and I get asked a lot by people, you know, I want to do a triathlon or I want to do an Ironman, even a half Ironman. What do I need to know? What do I need to do? And you guys have way more experience than i but based on my experience what i tell folks is it's not a three sport event it's a four sport event it's swim bike run nutrition yeah and this theme of nutrition not only came up yesterday in in spades but it has really come up in endurance sports. And we've seen this shift in nutritional consumption, calorie consumption, carbohydrate consumption. How

much can the gut tolerate? Clearly, he nailed the fourth sport. I mean, he was right there. He knows he can run fast. He surged at the right time. He put the fear of God and laid low and then won by 10. Got it. He wins and i don't care what anybody says what the quote-unquote knocks are the finish line is where the finish line is

and so see you there best man wins um but you kept seeing or not kept but you you heard i mean if you have blumenfeld repeatedly throwing up on the bike i mean this has to be a new this is not most people again the layperson would watch oh he must have ate something bad oh yeah i got a virus i mean this isn't this is all nutrition related how much can we tolerate we think we have it right you get out there the temps rise your effort is more than you thought it would be the gut shuts down and all of a sudden, boy, all the warning lights go on. Yeah, and I think speaking of Christian and the Norwegians,

they've got a reputation of training very scientifically, which is not a bad thing, but also pushing the envelope, looking for those marginal gains and trying to train their gut for maximum absorption. They're hitting very high numbers. It's interesting with social media these days and Strava flexes and Instagram flexes you wonder what's really happening and what's just kind of trying to play with people's minds that I mean I've seen Christian in a couple of races where they played with his position trying to get one or two watts here or there and ended up cramping and having to walk because it just of that change in hip angle um created a sort of a cramp using a muscle the way

it wasn't used it wasn't sort of used to operating that way so yeah the nutrition thing's been a big thing but uh more recently i guess carb consumption per, and I think you hit on two major points. As the race gets hotter, core body temperature is crucial. And the two things you do to keep your core body temperature and check up pacing, smart pacing and hydrate as much as possible. But then the second element of the nutritional piece is you've got to fuel your body with that energy. So you do know you're not just covering the distance you're racing the distance so that speaks to an intensity and when you're at intensity your carb consumption goes up

so it's about finding the balance um and you know i guess that comes with the experience of one i mean one guy who impressed me yesterday was was magnus didley if you've got second big guy six foot five super powerful uh bike rider just a great all-around athlete i mean it's interesting we we try and pigeonhole athletes because they they're better or but all these guys are good in all three disciplines as are the top ladies in. I mean, you don't get to this level having too many weaknesses. But, you know, all the talk beforehand was that he was a contender, and he is. I love watching this guy race.

I love watching him on the bike. He's beautiful to watch. I found it interesting at some point he clearly wasn't getting across to Laidlaw. Hit a rough patch, started losing time. The front chase group ended up catching him towards the end. And, you know, I think most people at that point were saying, oh, Magnus' race is done. You know, his big card to play was the bike, but just a tough dude.

He hit the marathon course, dropped back a few places, and then, you know, not known for his marathon running the way Patrick is, but just gutted it out, got back into rhythm then you know not known for his marathon running the way the way patrick is but just gutted it out got back in a rhythm you know and got himself up to second and you know it's interesting because as you guys know you've both raced at a very high level you you do need some ego and confidence to execute but you also need to know when and park the ego a bit and be smarter about it and you know magnus is a guy, I think, you know, didn't throw the towel in when his big play didn't come off. He just tried to work out other ways to make it happen.

And, you know, ended up with another podium, which I think is his second now, second or might have been his third at the Ironman World Champs. So he had an incredible day as well. Speaking of core temp, and this, you know, I don't know why i didn't think of this

when i raced triathlons because we're talking about core temp and how do you get hot i mean would you go run the marathon um with a trash bag on no it wouldn't your core temp would go through the roof well you know and we get deceived when we swim whether you're swimming in a pool or you're swimming in the ocean or lake or whatever. You're like, I'm in water. I'm cooling off. Well, no, you're not. You're sweating.

You're sweating in the water. So I read the reports of early on in the race, somebody lost their swim cap. Now, this sounds like nothing. But then more and more articles had the law, the word lost in quotes, lost their swim cap. Well, if you think, I mean, would you swim two and a half miles as hard as you can with a piece of rubber on your head, which is one a mass start swim, you know, it's physical. Arms are flailing. People are fighting for position. People are fighting for a draft or a group.

And your goggles get knocked off. I've never seen a swim cap come off, but I guess it could happen. But all of a sudden, mysteriously, we're starting to lose swim caps. I'm not criticizing this. I'm more pissed at myself that I didn't think of this. This is, I mean, what a great idea. Just take the swim. Say you, say you got hit.

I was, you know, Riccatello hit me in the head. My God, I got my goggles back on, but I can't find my swim cap. Meanwhile, my head is not about to explode because I'm going so hard. What's honestly. Yeah. Be careful, Jimmy. Conflict of interest. You're the I had.

Yeah. Crowe, you can answer it. Then I thought it was brilliant. I loved it. I can. I can. I didn't see anything happen. I didn't see anybody.

There you go. You see what he did there? That was good. This said, I can say with certainty back in my, my day before, before Crowley's day. And I, and I know Greg will have the same experience, but there were hot human races where you put your goggles on under your cap. You put your cap on, you you know loosely it's up high

dive in the cap comes off the back of your head and you're like oh shit i lost my cap and and it does make a difference yeah of course to crack down on that you know and say look you you better you better you're losing your cap off and you better carry two because we've got a, we use that for identification on the, on the water for safety reasons. And I do think it's an advantage and it's something that from a rules perspective, the, the, the refs are going to have to start looking for, I think, because it, I don't know the scientific data, but I agree with you, Lance.

But we've, we've all been there. I mean, it would make – I lost my cap a lot. I don't know about you, Crowley, but back in the day. I've seen you dive. I've seen you dive in a lot, so it has to be the dive. I know you wouldn't take it off or set it up to fall off intentionally. I'm just saying, full know, full disclosure, we did

purposely lose our caps back in the day at some races. At some point, it was a pretty popular tactic, and then it got fixed, right? Guess what? It's back. That tactic seems to be... By the way, as most

people know who follow the Ironman, especially the one yesterday, there's no diving in. So it's gotta be, it's gotta be somebody smacking you on the head or, or yeah, I got it. Did you use your cap back in the day? I lost my cap. I mean, there was a while there where once you go to register and you pick up your race pack, the swim caps,

they started manufacturing them in silicon, so they were double the thickness, which is actually what you use in a colder race. You want a thicker cap to keep, obviously, for the opposite effect. But, you know, it's something that everybody talked about when the water temps got up into the 70s and even low 80s, that you've got to manage the core body temperature that's that's the start of the race you don't want it skyrocketing there so um

it was definitely something that we all talked about and yeah if it happened to come off because you didn't jam it down around over your ears well so be it yeah that's yeah i gotta submit that for 2025 yeah please make these changes i just thought it was an amazing thing because as more and more i read about it the the fact that the word lost then started ended up in air quotes i was like oh that's a great idea uh we're going to keep talking about the Ironman 2024. But before we do, today's show also brought to you by Ketone IQ. Now, we often hear the fasting and exercise are good for the brain. HVMM launched the world's first drinkable ketone in 2017.

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He finished on the podium, right? Third place. Pretty cool. But 2002 since an American way, it's funny when you're on wikipedia and you see the list of past champions it's just stars and stripes stars and stripes stars and stripes and then a couple of these all these start to trickle in there and then this aussie really trickles in there and then the germans come and we've had to wait 22 years truly a global sport but but good race by rudy awesome awesome race by rudy i don't

think it was a surprise he's i want to say he was fourth last year in nice he also finished on the podium at the half ironman or 70.3 world championships actually i was in the coffee shop of the lobby here this morning and i ran into his dad, Rudolph, who raced here in the, in the mid eighties. So it's pretty cool, pretty cool story. He was, he was a very proud Papa, as you could imagine.

Yeah. Very emotional. But yeah, Rudy was, I mean, he's a guy who's been just on a sort of an upward trajectory, chipping away and, and getting great results.

I want to say he had a couple of fantastic wins four or five years ago. He won the European Championships, beat the great Javier Gomez, who was a dominant force at the time. He was one of the only guys who beat Javier over that sort of 70.3 distance. Yeah, I don't think it was a surprise. And he's thrown his name right into the mix of contenders for sure moving forward. I think he's – it's one thing to, I guess, think that you have the ability to do it and have other people tell you that you have the ability to do it.

It's another thing to do it. And I think now he's got on the podium. He probably believes that he can do it. He probably believes he belongs in that company with those other guys. He's definitely one to watch moving forward right 100 agree and yeah i think it's his dad won one of his age here at least once actually multiple sure of it um but yeah rudy's rudy's a super talent you know and like you said those big results i think he's always felt like he could do do well here um and hasn't come but uh i think with his maturity and experience he'll he'll

understand that regardless of what's going on in the race that he has a skill set to win and i think maybe in the past this this is just me thinking, um, you know, he, he may be one of those people that have paid more attention than necessary to the people behind him on the bike. These guys are, you know, I'm pushing 350 Watts. They're pushing 250 instead of just doing his thing, you know, and, and relying on his, you know, his attributes to get them across the line. And, and I think for the most part he did that yesterday. I listened to him in the press conference say that he, you know, he had a great swim. He, he actually was in a position early to push the bike.

He tried to kind of snap the elastic in this, this group. That was pretty big, right? 22 guys, I think or so for a long time this year with the lack of wind on the bike course hit and the, just everybody figuring out how to optimize arrow, how to get the right nutrition and hydration in. And then you've got that, you had the cloud cover early. Yeah. It was at the beginning of the bike. Um, and I think like, anyway, they, everybody, a lot of people paid for that on the way back when it got hot, you know,

and, and, uh, anyway, I, I think Rudy is did his own thing for the most part. Um, I had confidence in his overall and get a fourth. You're right. You know, he, he now knows that we can win this race and, you know, he may be the first American. Jimmy, how old is he? Is he 26 or 27,

maybe? I think he's mid to late 20s, yes. He's got time. He's right in the switch. Absolutely. His window is open. His window is open now. Interesting. He's like two, right? A month ago, he switched from track to factor. his window has opened there. Interesting. You know, I just, I like to write a month, a month ago,

he switched from track to a factor and, you know, and I think he has a new running shoe sponsor as well. So he changed a lot like late and didn't, didn't, you know, rarely does that work out, but I think the combination of things just gave them some confidence and more more a lot of

these guys give up you know when they when the race doesn't go as planned on the bike or or they're in super viking shape super cycling shape and they're looking at their numbers and there's 22 guys behind them and it's like what the hell you know what now what am i going to do and um i think when you have the the experience level and maturity to just do what Magnus did, right. You, you know, you heard him say that he sat on a, you know, his ass started hurting at the end of the bike, the last hour, he couldn't ride in the aero position, lost all of his lead, which he, wait, wait,

couldn't ride in the aero position because his ass started hurting. Wait, what did I miss? Yeah. He he said that he had a glute issue so okay okay yeah to be more specific and use it earlier we were talking about gut issues and i was like wait a minute what what don't tell me this but yeah i got it no it wasn't that wasn't that um that's why you don't wear a water right so yeah he he got the rig you know he got he got booty lock i on, on the end there and, and lost his lead, literally sat in transition, contemplating whether he should start the run.

And then was like, you know what? I've got so many people here that are, that are backing me. It would be idiotic to not start the run. He gets out there. And like Crowley said earlier, next thing, you know, the gap stabilizing to the people in front of them, then it's, then it's shortening and, and he just did his thing thing you know the gap stabilizing to the people in front of them then it's then it's shortening and he just did his thing you know and and who knows if the gut was an issue because we all know right when once it once the gut goes bad it's it feels like it will never end but if you can figure out a way to stabilize that then you're good right then you can

just start putting one foot in front of the other and faster and faster. But it really, I mean, it shows you how tough these guys and gals are. I mean, Blumenfeld even finished. I think I read he finished 31st or 39th. I mean, that's, you know, whether it's because he has family there to support him or whatever. I mean, that's, imagine, imagine right this guy comes into the race and says thinking to himself i think i can win and all of a sudden you you know you're not gonna win right what's the worst thing you could think about is going and running a marathon with all

these issues but to tough it out sure there were a lot of high cost guys that, that soldiered through that race and ran four hours, you know, and, and it, it's respect. It's cool to see, you know, and it's so easy to, to pull the pin, but they, I think every step you, you, you make here in this race, you learn something. And I think he, maybe, maybe they just feel like they'd be cheating themselves if they didn't suffer through this and, and just, and learn and figure it out. I want to say this current generation are great at that. Yeah.

I mean, as you mentioned, it's probably humbling when you're one of the pre-race favorites or the favorite to have to, you know, have your tail between your legs. But they do respect the race and the history and they're tough. They're just, they're, they're a tough, it's a tough generation. So yeah, I mean, Lionel Sanders was another, another guy back in the field and, but they honored the race. And I guess they honored the sacrifice of their family and their support

grew. And speaking of up and comers, I want to give a shout out to a young kid who ended up having a tough day yesterday, Trevor Foley. I was standing about probably 200 or 300 meters from the end of the bike. And this kid was on the front of the group that Cam Worth was in. And by all reports, he'd been doing a lion's share of the front of the work. Well, it's non-drafting, but he sat on the front, which is a tough place to be. But this kid's a runner.

He's young. I's a runner he's young um i want to say he's like a 215 marathoner he had he's he was a colleague he had a scholarship for running in college he went to the university of florida anyway he's coming in off the bike taking his feet out of his shoes and it happened right in front of me popped his feet on top of the shoes and one of the shoes has hit the ground and the bike's high-sided and flipped him off landed on his head and his shoulder and i went and picked him up there was a quite a bit of crowd there we picked him up he was he was in shock we poured some water on him and we said mate why don't you just hop on your bike after a minute or two and roll down into t2

you might be able to if you get your body moving i mean he was in i don't know he hop on your bike after a minute or two and roll down into T2. You might be able to, if you get your body moving. I mean, he was in, I don't know, he was in the top 10 or top 15 at the time. And he still had his ace to play. The run's coming. The run's coming. So he ended up in, he actually said to me, can you go and find my mum or my fiance and let them know? So he's rolling into transition.

He couldn't head out on the run. They took him to medical. I ended up finding his mum and his fiance. We he's rolling into transition. He couldn't head out on the run. They took him to medical. I ended up finding his mum and his fiancee. We actually saw him this morning. But he's a kid to look out for. He won Lake Placid this year. Just another one of these young guys who's come straight into the sport. They're bringing all this speed in.

I mean, your heart goes out. It's a long build-up, as you guys know, when you're sort of targeting one or two events in the year. And then that happens and, you know, you're reaching for a little bit more trying a prototype shoe and it just didn't work out and ended up terrible crash, but thankfully it was okay. They took him off for the head scans and everything. And I mean, he'll live to fight another day, but he certainly wanted to watch.

He spends a fair bit of time in Tucson train too. And I've seen him just grind away the last couple of years, but man is, yeah, his bike and Ron are top notch. And, um, I actually, I was at the penalty tent, which is 400 meters the other way down the road and I'm watching these guys ride by same thing. I look just, just watching him go. The next thing I know, he's head over heels in the grass and I'm like, Oh shit. You know? And,

but yeah, there were people right at right there to him. And, but I, I didn't, I didn't think it was that bad because I saw him get back on his bike, but yeah, afterwards I heard it was pretty bad because i saw him get back on his bike but yeah afterwards i heard it was pretty pretty significant jimmy speaking of officiating um and we touched on this in the pre-show this there's some new technology uh for the bike portion to help monitor drafting and and we all know this and the longtime fans of the sport know that. I mean, in races like Ironmans, right? Drafting is not allowed. And certain in ITU races in the Olympics, it is.

And to me, they look like two totally different sports. I digress. But it's not allowed. But up until recently, you know, it's sort of been sort of old school, right? It's been to the human eye, deciding if's been in the to the to the human eye deciding if somebody's in the drafting zone pulling them aside putting them on the penalty box but fast forward we got this new and i kept reading about this and i was thinking what are they talking about and then you you you just mentioned it in the pre-show this this race ranger some new tech

that that i gotta hear i don't know and and i'm not making this up i don't know anything about this other than what i read this morning but apparently helps monitor the distance between athletes and and warns them but give me give me the 411 because i'm i'm genuinely curious quick quick scoop is that it's um it's a system of of lights you've got a unit on the on the front fork it's you know about the size of a hockey puck maybe a small hockey puck um then you've got a unit that attaches to the back of the bike and the unit unit on the front communicates to the back to the unit on the back of all the other bikes on the back unit is a is a light and when you get with when you get within 17 meters and up to 14, there's a solid orange light. When you go from 14 to 12, it's a solid blue light.

And then when you're inside 12, it flashes red. And so we've taken that current. So we've now got, for all intents and purposes, we now have literally an objective draft zone that athletes can use to see where they are in relation to their peers. Refs can see as well. And not just, you know, you now have vision forward because the lights are bright. You can easily see 15 people from the back now. So where you place a ref, you you have more you can use fewer refs that you would but you don't have to look behind you anymore is what i'm saying you know you

if you get in the red is that sending some signal that the violation has occurred or this is just for the ref to then pay attention their vision in the future is to have live real-time comms that feed to somebody in a control room that can then get that information out to refs. But the reality is that's a ways down the line, at least I think it is, Rachel, what you may think. Right. Fascinating. For now, it's an aid, right?

It's just, it's like the reflectors in color that we used to tell pro to use. Yeah. Those reflectors are about 40 feet apart. And so that, you know, the old school race ranger. So now everybody knows where they are. They also know that the rafts are pretty strict now with respect to, you know, the rules. The main rule that people get dinged for isn't blatant drafting. You enter the draft zone, you go from 12 meters to 7 meters, and then you back out without passing.

The rules require you to pass. So now the athletes, the second they see a flashing red light, the only option for them without risking getting a penalty is to go forward. So they stay in that. They want the light in front of them to be off or orange. And the second that light changed from orange to blue, and it's like, shit, I'm within 14 meters. They put the brakes on a bit. But as far as race dynamics, you know, because penalties have been handed out for this.

And you saw this in Kona. If you knew about Race Ranger going into it early on with that 22-person group, you could imagine how advantageous it is to be at the front, right? Because you can control what's going on, and the refs are calling these yo-yos, these in-and-outs, so everybody back there is safe. You've got 22 people, you know, in a second or so to go 12 meters.

So, you know, you're 30 seconds back at the back. Do I, I don't want to have to pass, right? So I'm going to keep a safe distance and that allows the front people to do their thing. So they're pushing harder now to try to, you know. Anyway, I think what happened at around 25k was uh christian was trying stretching it out and then magnus went over the top of him christian with a huge effort based on what it looked like on tv christian tried to keep up um couldn't quite make it then puked his brains out

i think you know indirectly or directly as a result of that effort you know whatever he had eaten before that you know with with christian trying to make that effort anyway it was it was a winning effort you know it got magnus off the front um and christian too until he made it a bit but so everybody's watching that. Like, for a while, it was a cluster. You know, you're looking on TV, and the light flashes red, and everybody, you know, on four people, if somebody sits up at the front, they're like, shit, I can't do this.

And then there's a little bunching up, and everybody's like, I got to pass, or I'm going to spend five minutes in the penalty tent. It took a while to sort itself out. The wood would have helped more but but it did sort itself out and race rangers it's been a huge help for everybody to see what 12 meters is to see you know and they're using it in a way not to see how close to 12 meters they can ride but but to stay safe you know so as the refs are enforcing the rules athletes are using it properly versus how close can i get to 12 um you know and this is everybody this just the pros or every every

just the pros i'm gonna say that our pro series races are using it so not every pro race is using it um but it it's cool. And I heard a lot of positive feedback from the athletes yesterday. It's just nice knowing where you are literally with respect to the draft zone. You control your destiny more. If you choose to use it to see how close you ride to 12, then you run the risk of getting a penalty. But there's no doubts now. The light flash is red. You know that you could get a penalty

even if it's for one or two seconds if you don't pass. It's pretty cool. One more thing, it's opened up the race to brave athletes because they know it's tougher for a group to manage themselves

when everyone can see what 12 meters is definitively. The people who can pedal are incentivized now to put it down. Sam would have done that regardless because he did it two years ago without Race Ranger. But the others, I think, have a bit more. They're encouraged more to do their thing on the bike. That's my thoughts anyway.

Let's finish, and this is also another question, but let's wrap up with, it's been a couple of years where they split these fields, right? And they now alternate. Of course, you had the Men's World Championships in Nice, France last year. This year, they're in Konaona this will flip again next year the women will be back in kona the men will be back in nice i don't know i don't know what what what and maybe crow you have thoughts on this but what is this a is this a forever thing or I don't want to get any heavy talk out of school. I'll have a crack at it.

I hope it's not a forever thing in terms of the men and women on separate days. I think one of the great things about the sport is the men and women have always been together. I always feel triathlon has been at the forefront of equality in terms of racing opportunities, certainly prize money. I think sponsorship opportunities are now sort of in that realm as well. So I know there were concerns from the girls that some of the elite age group men were sort of getting involved in the race, and I think that's a legitimate concern.

I think that definitely was happening. So, I mean, ultimately, the integrity of racing has to come first in terms of you can't have some guys with their ego from the age group getting involved and someone getting towed up to the front. Or as far as the venues, I mean, I think Neist has history in our sport. There used to be, I mean, I would have, I'm sort of a middle of the range size guy, 5'11". I think that course would have suited me maybe a touch more than the Kona up against the big boys with the power on the bike,

although in Kona being a little bit smaller on the run helps for sure. But, I mean, again, this comes down to personal preference. This race in Hawaii is what got me into the sport. I saw it on television in the 80s, watched all the legends and the icons race. I mean, I was the soccer player until I was 20. I played soccer until I was 20. Quite a bit bigger than I am now. I probably didn't have the profile to be an endurance athlete at that point. And I was

more a speeder. And I mean, I used to play the speed positions in the team sports that I played. So, but it was the Ironman in Hawaii. It was iconic. And that lit a fire in me. So from a personal standpoint, that was the race that got me into the sport. That was the race that captured my imagination. When I started doing triathlons, I started in the shorter distances. I found a nice little niche in North America. I mean, I raced in Europe initially for three or four years. Then I loved the U.S. short course circuit,

all the races I'd seen on television as well like chicago and st croix it wasn't unusual to flick on the television and see those races um and in fact there's a picture of jimmy winning st croix that still pops up on one of those history of triathlon facebook pages all the time which i love he had a little bit more hair back in those days but he had a good looking rig and he was a good looking man and back in the 80s and 90s i was just gonna say he was probably wearing a Speedo as soon as I was thinking that. You were talking about him having a good-looking rig,

so I didn't say it. He did have a Speedo, and he actually should have been at the underpants run here last Thursday with that rig. But I digress. You know, yeah. I mean, we had two great athletes from Australia, Greg Walsh and McKeeley Jones that were winning big races in America. So those races were on TV in the, in the, you know, on television,

a lot of the big U S races, but the main one was Hawaii. So for me, this is, cause they're very strong emotional, um, element to it and it's probably an emotional decision, but I'm not for innovation. Like we just talked about race range of technologies everywhere. Now it's infiltrating all areas of our life in a very positive way. If we know how to use it the right way, I'm not against progress, but I love the big Island. Yeah.

It's for me to be like, as a golfer, do you want the Masters at Augusta? If you're a tennis player, I guess you can't really move Wimbledon from Wimbledon because it's called Wimbledon. But it just has that sort of overarching element that transcends the sport. I mean, I know when I used to check my bike in at the airport, people would say, are you a cyclist? I'd say, no, I'm actually a triathlete and then they'll say the next question was have you done that race in hawaii that's that's kind

of right that's right people knew so i'm not against change though i mean change innovation progress but but for me i would like the men and women back together so i think that that's a big essence of what i used to love about racing here. I think that's right. I mean, you read a lot about, and we've all been there, right. And I think we all probably share that. We're not, I mean, I'm not that woo woo. You know what I mean? I think we all share that, but that Island has something special, right. And the locals will call it the mana, the energy, the energy, the Island. It is. And you read, I mean, even Lenga was talking about,

he said, as soon as I got off the plane, he said, I felt it. And by the way, Nice, France is, is, is fantastic, beautiful place. And also has a ton of triathlon history. Let's not forget right before there was sort of dueling long course world championships. You had the Hawaii iron man and you had the world long distance championships, slightly different distances. This was Mark Allen's game for so long. He dominated that event could never crack the Kona code finally came up,

came over and got six Conas, but it was a hell of a race. But, but there, there's something about the big island it's there. And I, and I think I'm with you i don't know this these aren't our decisions certainly not mine um and i just also just wonder you know if it just for the athlete you're like well it was it it wasn't you know i won the world championship i won the iron man world championships but it was the year that was in me you would never want it to might be making this up but long story short that is a very special place. And you said it Crowley, like if somebody says to you, Oh, you're going to do the one in Hawaii,

they are talking about that place, that start line, that event, that history, that heritage, that mana, that's it. Like, so Jimmy, again, you don't have to, it's, it's worth, it's worth floating. Yeah. Kona's Kona, man. man and it i didn't have any well i had a desire to do it in 87 i didn't finish and then i'm like i'm never doing this again you know stick to the two hours two hour events which i did for the most part did it did it once in 99 anyway um kona's magical again i'm not woo woo either but you just can't deny it. You come here and it's the island itself, but the event itself too. I used to watch people on this course and just

their personal journey is... It's there for everyone to see on their face, just body language and at the finish line especially, everything that especially, everything that people have gone through, Lange's motivation with the passing of his mom. I mean, you see all those stories play out. And nowhere do you see that more than Cone. So I hope Cona's here forever. As far as the single, you know, I can say the single gender of EPS, it's super important to me to protect the integrity of the women's race. And like Crowley said, it would be hard, but as far as possible, you know,

you don't want any group of men coming into the pro women's field. And ideally, any pro woman all the 55 starters you don't want any of them to have to to i can't think of another word but co-mingle with the age guys you know you gotta you gotta race again is, is possible. I haven't talked to a lot of people to be honest, men and women to see which they preferred. I think that the intentions for my understanding anyway, you know, to give women their own day, their own race to also, as you guys know,

there's a finite number of spots that there's that that pier only fits a certain amount of people um and the way the qualifying spots are dished out blah blah it it's hard to get 2400 women here yeah and it wasn't a criticism or critique it was just a question i mean it's and i'm not it i know you got it that way but i just want to make sure the audience knows that like it just just a question um and by the way this is not uh unique to the sport of triathlon this has been for those who follow gravel racing yeah this is probably the single biggest debate in issue with with you know call it professional gravel racing because these women are just so strong and so fast and, you know,

they're stronger than most of these dudes that are out there trying to win their age group, or even the dudes who are trying to get 15th in the men's race. Like there is those races on, you would look at that and go, well, they should be separate and so are separated. So it's not unique just to try it. Also. That's a perfect comparison really you know yeah and it's tough as you know from from looking at what the thought processes are in gravel racing you know the opinions that the women give i mean some of

them want to be on their own some of them are like shit i'd like to sit in i can keep up with keegan swenson as my husband. No, or not. But, you know, they some people might want that that group, that mail pack. By the way, there's not too many people keeping up with Keegan Swenson on anything. But I know your point. Unless he wants to. But yeah, it's a tough problem to solve. How much of a head start do you give them?

And you're dealing with daylight, trying to get everybody in get everybody out the peer limitations on the yeah yeah well so yeah it's tough it's tough and then you it's just hard to get separation you know in most just from a practical standpoint so i'd be interested i gotta start talking to people to see what like vibe wise you know what they prefer right you know i think that was that that's i'm that would i would love that feedback because that that's just like that's what i'm curious about i am too actually i didn't think about it really until this year i was more focused on you know this is really cool women have their own day and I didn't worry so much about the men because

they've always had their their own race story just because they're on the course first but vibe wise it'd be interesting to hear it was a pretty cool vibe in me say you were there Crowley this year no I wasn't I watched it on the coverage but I heard

everyone loved it who was there. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. You're not sending people to Peoria, right? I mean, this is Nice's Nice, right? And the bike course is dynamic and beautiful and technical and very similar sort of running along the Promenade de Zongle.

It's got that out-and-back vibe as well. It's got a lot of history at the water. Lots of people built in, band base right there, for sure. Yeah, and that's sort of what I mean, too. You know, there's the vibe that the athletes have, and then there's the vibe coming from the fans and the spectators and all the people that come in. It's just a more diverse group. Potentially when you have men and women in the same race from a fan base

standpoint, the people that show up to support and watch. And I just haven't paid attention to, to, to the vibe. I haven't really read much about it either, but maybe, you know, as each year goes by people, more people talk about that, the vibe. I haven't really read much about it either, but maybe as each year goes by, more people talk about that, the vibe aspect of spectating. Anyway. Anyway. Okay.

Well, Patrick Longa, folks, I mean, the three-time champ, 38 or 39 years old, 237. I mean, so many things stand out for me. Emotional win. Uh, it was fun to watch and fun and fun to talk about. And so Crowe, you're a legend. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for the invite. Great to chat boys. What are you, you, uh, you hadn't, what are you going back to Australia soon?

Yep. Tomorrow. So early flight back, back into our dad duties. So looking forward to it. Wait, did I hear you just before we leave here? Are you talking about doing a high rocks or is this, are you just messing with me? I see the pipes. Like it's a little concealed with the phone, but I see, I see some, I like doing some, it looked like you'd been doing some farmer carries. I've been, I've been on some, I've been on the ski and a few other things.

Yeah. I mean, you heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen, this motherfucker is coming for the 50 to 55 age group. This is, you know what? I'm not worried. I, in fact, I'm not at all worried about you, Jimmy, but I'm looking, I'm looking at there now he's flexing. He's flexing. No, no, no, no. I just saw it on the screen. Look at guys. Okay. You're a couple of age groups above us, Jimmy. We're not worried about you. Well, even, and even if he wasn't, I can carry things, man. Don't count me out.

Go ahead. Keep going. Well, I'm just saying you know i know i've got a baggy shirt on other as you notice you gotta get i'm gonna get more fitted with your clothing jimmy that's the new thing it's gonna be fitted that's why he did that's why he didn't do that run size down man you gotta size down now this is a little known fact before you close they prohibited me from the underpants run it's too distracting and you know they won't they don't want that's one of the um unforeseen problems with the single gender events the underpants run was a sausage fest this year oh yeah okay you know

what we could have saved a lot of time talking about the co-mingling of the fields. And now is that right? I mean, we could have just cut right to it. That's it. You know, I should have been here last year. Yeah. Well, now we know we will be there next year. Bunch of creepers out there. If I can Rick a teller. Yeah. Like everyone wants to see us run around in our undies. next year. Bunch of creepers out there. If I can Rick a teller, you're lucky. We're almost at the restaurant around in L. And he's. All right,

guys. Yeah. Don't say anything. Just, this is when I I've known you a long time. I'm going to cut you off. Don't say, don't say anything.

All right, boys. Thanks for coming on and everybody. Thanks for tuning in.