THEMOVE - Is Pogačar Going After the Tour/Vuelta Double? | TdF 2026 Stage 13 | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: July 17, 2026

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin discuss Mauro Schmid's win and Jayco-AlUla's team tactical masterclass on Stage 13, and go through the chaotic opening of the stage, which produced a massive 57-rider breakaway and a mad dash for the intermediate sprint, with Pedersen forced to chase for more than 40kms to ensure Jasper Philipsen didn't get back in the picture for Green. They also reveal some potential news about Pogačar's plans to contest the Vuelta a España after the Tour, before answering listener questions and previewing tomorrow's mountainous Stage 14. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Rugiet Men: Over one hundred fifty thousand men have already made the switch to Rugiet. Getting started is simple. Rugiet connects you with a board-certified doctor online and your treatment gets shipped discreetly to your door. For a limited time only, head to https://Rugiet.com/THEMOVE to get 15% off your order. Tifosi Optics: Use promo code THEMOVE at https://tifosioptics.com/discount/THEMOVE Nextbets: Use our special link to see where you can bet in your area and claim the best sign-up offers https://nxtbets.com/betoutcomes/ Ventum: Use code TheMove10 for 10% off anything at: https://ventumracing.com/  

Your sales order says one thing. Your inventory says another. Your spreadsheet says good luck. O-DU brings your business together on a single platform. From sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, visit Odu.com to book a demo. It's O-D-O-O-O-com. Potential scoop, not confirmed, but looks very likely. So apparently, I don't know in which media, but Prince Albert of Monaco has given an interview

somewhere and something has slipped out of Prince Albert. Maybe he didn't want to say it, but he said in the interview, and we know that they've been spending time together and Tade Pugacchar lives in Monaco. And I've seen lately, I mean, just before the tour, some pictures of them together. So Prince Albert said that it's that Tade Pugacar will be participating in the Vuelta, Spain, this year. And so I just saw that today that Pogacha was confronted after the finish or before the finish, before the stage with this quote. And he said, well, if the prince said it, there's a high chance. Everybody, welcome back to the move plus. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bernal.

We're breaking down stage 13 of the Tour de France. And actually, I would say maybe the best stage of the race so far. Won by Maro Schmid out of a 57 rider breakaway with Harold Taha'Hawai. a second, Tom Pickcock, third, Tom Pickock moving up into fourth place overall because the breakaway finished over seven minutes in front of the Peloton behind. Just a completely chaotic day through the Vos Mountains in the Alsat's region. We'll also preview tomorrow's stage 14, which is a tough mountain stage. Take some listener questions and we'll break down and we'll break down both the race tomorrow, how we think it's going to go and how it was won today.

But, Johan, before we get into that, do you want to put anything in Johan, Rant Corner today. Well, it's not really a rant, a little rant, Spencer, before we start to talk about... Just a mini rant today. Let's call it the rant. I'm going to say the rant. About yesterday stage.

So we had this unfortunate crash with, what, 300 meters to go, maybe even less. And so a lot of riders went down. And there was one rider, a Belgian young writer, Vlad van Mechlin, who got sanctioned. he got relegated to the last place and got a fine for dangerous riding. And when I look at the images of the sprint from the helicopter, man, the guy did nothing wrong. There's really a big issue with implementing these rules and these decisions.

And I have the impression that yesterday's decision of relegating him, is purely because of the consequences of the crash. I mean, there was a crash and people hurt themselves. If you look at that incident, in my opinion, there was no incident. So really unfair to him. And then I was thinking, you know, and actually it would make a lot of sense. I never asked myself the question because I was assuming that this was going to be the case. But if you have a jury which analyzes.

these kind of situations and needs to make those decisions, it is unthinkable to me that these are just UCI commissaires. Most of them who have never ridden a bike, who have to implement a regulation. And I checked with some people in the peloton with some team directors. And I asked, they said, I hope that in these cases there is an expert or ex-rider. involved in the decision-making.

Because I think that's really the way you can see. I mean, there's so much going on. I mean, it is not black or white. You know, the rule says one thing, but then there's so much going on that I think it would be only logical. And it should be always the case that there are ex-riders involved and assisting or advising the commissaries. It's not the case.

And, you know, one of the people I contacted said, you know, well, it's it's it's uh it's always the same thing and uh you know they said it's people with people with people with really low IQ you know like low IQ in the jury or like like like your president Donald Trump would say low IQ people low IQ people um so um yeah um when I saw that this this news this morning that this guy was sanctioned for this and then I revisited The sprint, that was not fair. You know, and then on the other hand, and we talked about it yesterday briefly, that, you know, the maneuver of Pedersen with Phillipson in the immediate sprint,

that's a lot more sanctionable, actually, because there was clear. He didn't do any damage to the rider, and Phillipson was not protesting, but Pedersen did actually completely deviate from his lane. He went from the middle of the road to the, and it didn't put anybody in danger. so there was a warning for this. And then this guy gets relegated. I mean, ultimately it's not the end of the world. You know, the guy was not going to win the sprint anyway.

He was not going to be top 10. But there needs to be consistency in applying these rules. And in my opinion, there needs to be for these specific instances. There should always be some ex-printers and preferably ex-printerers who are recently retired, you know. not guys from 15, 20 years ago, sprinters who are recently retired. I mean, listen, Cavendish. Cavendish is at the tour.

Cavendish is part of the organization of the Tour de France. He is involved, actively involved with the UCI. Man, ask his advice. You know, what is, I mean, is this sanctionable or not? I think that should be, that should be the case. What do you think? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, this guy shouldn't have been relegated. I feel bad for them. But also they lose those 10 UCI points. What if it comes down? What if that's the difference between the relegation and promotion? But I was thinking about this with former pros because they were talking about it on the commentary today of like, oh, why? Like I think Niko Roach was saying, I've never, I don't think I've ever heard of a former pro being a commissaire or in the race jury. Do you think it's just not really worth their time?

Like I assume that pay is not amazing. And who wants to be bothered? Who wants to be bothered with that? I mean, of course, you know, you would have to find somebody who really wants to do it. It is obviously a commitment. But I think it's important. It's important that somebody who has been there can give advice to the commissaires. You know, okay, you know what?

There's nothing going on here. Yeah. I mean, it's not a huge rant today, Spencer, but I just wanted to touch on that. that these rules need to be applied more consistently and always in the same way and not just based on who is involved and what the consequences of the incident are. Yeah. Also, I mean, just I'm thinking about like a rule, rule making, rules setting bodies like that. I almost would wonder if there's a writer bias.

It's like, well, you know, they don't really know. Like these jocks don't know what they're talking about. And that's maybe why they're hesitant to take outside advice from them. I don't know. Well, you know, they know that there's always going to be division. You know, so they don't really care. They know that if they sanction one guy, that there's others who are going to take advantage. And there will never be solidarity.

I think that's that's what they know. I mean, it's historically been always the case and it's still the case that, that, you know, nobody's going to stick up for the other one, you know? Yeah. Yes. Well, stage 13 on today's stage. What did you think of Maro Schmid's stage one?

Amazing. Yeah, impressive. I think, I think, you know, Jako, Alula, they really put all the cards on their side. You know, they had, first they had Moira Schmidt in the breakaway, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know if there was another guy, but at the end, when the two groups joined, there was four riders of Jake O'Lula and not just any, you know, Maudersmith, Luke Plop, Ben O'Connor, and Michael Matthews. I mean, all the bases were covered.

Yep. So I think it's very well deserved, only logical that they win, but still, it was a very hard fought victory. And, you know, Mauder Schmidt, man, I kind of, I mean, he started the season really, really strong. He did a really, a few really good performances. won some races also. And then we all know that he's changing teams,

signed a big contract with Pinarello Q306.5 for three years, I understand. So you could say, you know what? I mean, this guy's probably, you know, not super motivated anymore. You know, he's done a great spring. That's what tends to happen, right? And in Maurer Smith's case, this is not the case. for sure not you know today he was on uh on his on his on a on a great day and the way he won this stage was was impressive um yeah great victory and well deserved for jakeaa

great racing yeah they played it perfect yeah marl Schmidt he's won a zero stage now he's one of tour stage there's not many remember he just barely missed out last year stage 11 and you got to be really talented to miss out on a stage like that and the next tour like that doesn't matter. I'll just get in another breakaway. I'll win another two-up sprint. Like, these are not situations that you find yourself out all the time. So to force that issue,

and he's kind of been building, you know, he doesn't win a lot, but you have seen him building his form over the past few months coming up to this point, to deliver in this moment, this team has a knack for doing it. Think about the zero last year. They win the queen stage. The tour last year, they win the queen stage, and then they show up here.

You know, they've not had an amazing season, and they just win a stage. And there's, what, eight teams have won a stage, probably 10 teams, I would guess, well, maybe less will win at stages at this tour. So that's less than half the teams. And one of them is J. Coelulo. And as you said, they had the perfect mix of riders up there.

Like, no notes on what they were doing today. Did you see, though, when Schmidt went, Tejada was behind him. Plap could have gone with them, but he smartly just kind of like moved over in front of the Peloton. and it caused a moment of hesitation and then these guys get away. I thought that was a really good move from PLEP.

Yeah. No, no. I mean, they got all their all their points today, Jake Walula. They, yeah. I mean, they were really in a good situation also because they were, I mean, first of all, was it three, the three guys, no, two guys made the split, right? Or three, wait. So they had Luke Plop and O'Connor got dropped.

Okay. So two guys. guys made the split and then they had Michael Matthews in the group behind. So they were in a position and say, hey, you know what? We're here, but we don't need to drive this. We just take turns now and then, but we have a guy coming. And so that was, yeah, I mean, that was probably going to be their best bet to win the stage because, you know, when you're eight or ten, I don't know, were they ten riders at some point

over the ballon d'alsas? and you know you're in there and especially if you're two riders in there i mean the pressure on these guys to be in then the decisive move of that breakaway and you know to win the stage you know at this point in the tour de france you get into situations where you're escaped with eight to ten riders that's already a huge accomplishment to be in there and then the pressure you have I mean, I still have flashbacks from sometimes in my days. You're in there and you know you have a chance, but you have one child out of 10, you know,

and somebody's going to win that stage and you can be it, but most likely you're not it. But then also you have your team counting on you that you're going to finish the job. You know, so if it's big champions, they usually finish, if it's van der Poul or Von Arte or Pitcock, they usually finish the job, right? But if you're just like a normal professional rider and you're in that position, it's nerve-wracking, man, to be there and having to deliver.

And so, yeah, I mean, having two guys there, obviously, was an advantage. But, yeah, Maurer Schmidt had this in the back, man, he'd. And then on top of that, he had a really, really good breakaway partner with Tejada, didn't skip a turn, I mean, even pulled until like 500 meters to go. Yeah. Really good. I mean, good performance also of Tejada, man. That was a good, good ride for him. Any thoughts on Tom Pitcock? Doesn't win the stage? Probably a little disappointed about that. It was always going to be tough for him. Since everyone knew that he was the beneficiary of the time gap, and he's a very fast sprinter, so nobody wants to go to the line with him.

But he moves in a fourth overall on the GC. What did you think? What did you think about that performance? That's definitely my move of the day. My move of the day is Tom Pitcock. being in the break. He came in the second group, right, with Pedersen. He joined. He already had three teammates in there. So there were all, there was four Pinerrello riders in there. There was Fred Wright, if I'm not mistaken,

Xandro Murese and Quentin Hermanns. So they did a lot of work. And then when it was splitting on the ballonde al-Azzas, Pitcock was the guy who attacked, brought, moves back. He was riding for G.C. It was highly unlikely he was going to win the stage. But man, coming back into fourth place, he was in 10th place, almost 12 minutes down before today's start.

Now he's in fourth place, four minutes down, I guess. Four minutes something down. And, you know, I've heard some comments and people and commentators saying, yeah, you know, okay. And sometimes I also say, you know, You shouldn't be too worried about a guy like that because if he has lost that time, it's for a reason. Remember I say that sometimes? Oh, I think about that every time.

Yeah, because you do say that all the time. But I'm going to make an exception for Tom Pitcock. You cannot apply this to a writer of the quality of Tom Pitcock. He may still pay for it or he may still lose the time again because of for the moment, he hasn't been able to follow the better guys on the big climbs, right? But man, a talent like Tom Pitcock is exceptional. And I would not, I would not bet any money on. Podium is probably still too high of an ambition.

But he could stay top five. He could stay top five. He finished already third in the Vualta. To me, it also looks that Pitcock is a rider who goes with, when he gets motivated and gets into the flow. And today he was by far the strongest rider of that group. Corrected every single situation, kept driving the group, and then finishes off by sprinting to third place.

Some commentators have said, yeah, you know, tomorrow he'll pay for it. I'm not so sure he's going to pay for it. I think he's back in the game and he's going to fight for it. Well, George brought up a good point that if you really think about his effort, like sure there was like the initial acceleration to get into the, move. But it's not like he was, he had multiple teammates with him. It's not like he was driving that breakaway. His effort isn't really that much different than someone sitting behind. Like everybody was going fast. That's probably true until the bottom of ballon does us. Then on that

last climb, he did a lot of work, closed gaps. But didn't the Peloton go faster than them? He did close more gaps and he yeah. Had acceleration. But you know, of course, if you're one of those guys in the top 10, you know, the Remko and Lipowitz and Ayuso, and they didn't hit the front, right? They didn't hit the front. True.

And he was on the front on that climb. 30 kilometers. But this is a special guy, man. Super talent. So I think it's really nice that he gets back into contention. And then it was also interesting to see how, you know, some of these teams started to panic. You know, first Bahrain.

They were riding for, what, is it, ninth place of Lenny Martinez. Well, right now, 10th. 10th now, but. So he was ninth, right? Yeah. Interesting to see. And, you know, we often say, you know, especially in the Tour de France,

there are these other interests that are not the yellow jersey, not the polandah jersey, not the podium, other interests that you can use to your advantage. And I think today, hats off to UAE. for utilizing those interests. They really made a good tactical decision, I think. They let the group take sufficient time until seven, eight minutes to force other teams who feel that their top five,

their top ten plays is threatened, Bahrain, Little Trek, even Red Bull Bora were starting to pace. So I think they wrote a really, really good race, UAE. Yeah, UAE, I mean, masters of the universe today. They get two riders up there. They get to sit back.

Little Trek, a bit of a disaster class today. They're chasing all day. Yeah, before these tough mountain stages. Matt Bedsbterson misses the move. If he asks for Philipson's up there, he has to bridge for,

I have in my notes that he starts bridging at 130K to go, and he catches him with 92K to go. That's a long bridge. There was a 40, 45 kilometer chase for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, initially when I saw that group going, I said, okay, this is a disaster.

You know, this is 25 points for Philipson. And Pedersen gets no points today. And then the next thing I see, you know, there's another, whatever, 20 riders getting clear from the Peloton. Because at some point that group went, there was 35 riders, I think. And the Peloton was just all, you know, wide old. all over the road and that was normally it. So the fact that they could reinitiate another attack and bridge up, Mats was tired, man.

He was cooked. He was suffering. But man, he's so strong. He can he can recover from these kind of efforts. Still second in the sprint. Phillips and won the sprint, Pedersen second, give my third. So basically in the green jersey competition, there's little or

no movement and but today normally should have been a stage where Patterson actually took a little bit more advantage or stayed the same anyways loses five points it's not the end of the world still 41 points up on Philipson so I mean that that was a big effort and it was worth it because that could have been a disaster if he lost 25 points he had no choice he had to there was it was the only option was just to go go chase like crazy. And the way they corrected the situation was pretty impressive. But then, you know, then Little Track was faced with the situation of Bitcock being in the break and having to start the pace in the Peloton. That was definitely not the plan before the start of the stage.

And not what you're looking for before a day where you're going to have to do a leadout for the intermediate sprint tomorrow. And you have two guys in the GC that you're in theory trying to help. It just, yeah, not, not amazing. Also, maybe should have saved some energy from yesterday because they were working pretty hard up there at the end of the stage when maybe it wasn't worth it and then today when it was worth it, they weren't there. Also, this is like, I think the best race of the day. Yeah, definitely the most interesting stage so far, I think. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. You know, I mean, you can't, I think yesterday what they did, it was worth trying. Although there was,

you know, very little possibilities for it to work. But I mean, you could not have predicted today that there's 35 riders going clear and that Philipson is in there and Peterson is not. That's like, okay, you cannot make this up. Yeah. But it still happened. And on top of that, it was not just not Peterson being there. There was no little track in there.

That was even worse. I know. I know. I guess it's easy for us to sit here, though. I think maybe we didn't paint the picture as well as we should have on the move as either. But this was, it was at the end of 40K of constant attacking that this move went. Yeah. Yeah. And it was so fast.

Like this was the fourth fastest stage of all time with over 2,000 meters of climbing. So that's that that's the key, Spencer. You know, we, like we cannot stress it enough. These speeds are insane. I mean, you just say it's whether 50K an hour, 49.9. Yeah. 2400 meters of climbing. You know, usually when you have these kind of stages, it's a flat stage or a rolling stage with, you know, cat four, cat three, maybe.

And usually favorable wind. Today, the first part of the stage and then over the first climb, which was a five-kilometer climb, the average speed was 51.4 kilometers per hour after that first climb. That's mental. I mean, it's crazy. It is crazy. I mean, when the move went, Uno X missed out initially and they're chasing.

And the gap is six, seven seconds. You think, oh, well, they're going to get it back. And they can't get it back. Like,

because they're going that fast up front. It was incredible. Also, what did you think of Vismas Day to day? Not really in the break. They have Victor Campanarts up there and he gets dropped. Well, they had two guys in the break, right?

They had Campanards and the Danish, the Norwegian guy. What's the Norwegian guy? Per Strandagenes. Yeah. Yeah. They were up there, but to what purpose? I don't know. I don't know, Spencer.

It's just, I don't know if it's just my impression, but I have the feeling that Vizma is going through I mean the energy the positive energy or the forward energy is not there no and once you and especially in a grand tour you know

it's a snowball effect you know I think they're like in a negative spiral in terms of energy we already said Victor Campanarts obviously does a great job a lot of things we don't see but this is not Victor that we know his you know he's not

present where you know he needs to be like in the in the middle mountains as he was in the past i think definitely feels the effort of the gero um bruno armriale had a crash in early on in the in the race he's not recovering from it uh mattho jorgensen is apparently sick and had a crash so didn't look good at all today either um and then i and then i And then on top of that, to me, I can not, I mean, unsee the demeanor and the energy after the stages of Jonas. Jonas looks like he has the suffer phase on in some of these stages. And this is all, you know, contagious. It's a contagious motion, right, and a contagious energy.

And it happens often, you know, that when things go right for a team, everything goes right. for everybody and then on the other hand you try you try you try and things don't seem to work out and you get into this like negative energy i mean i'm not saying that they are creating negative energy but there's something not working out in my opinion and um yeah i mean when you see ameerall getting dropped jurgensen getting dropped victor being in the break but not being a factor um i don't know i don't know i don't know i'm worried for for Visma. They keep saying that they have this incredible master plan, that everything's planned and that, you know, we have to wait for the last week to see what they're going to do.

I'm not buying it, man. I don't think they have it. Well, you can also, they could have an amazing plan, the best plan in the world, but it doesn't matter if Yonis is not as strong as Tate. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like, what are they going to do? But yeah. Few concerns on Visma. So I do think Victor Campanards, I do think Jonas Vindigard are not. They have four, four riders on this tour team from the Giro and you might, it's easy to say like, well, that's so stupid because of course they're tired. They just did the

Gero, but do you know why they have guys from the Gero, Johan? Because they don't have enough people on the team that can do the job at the tour. It just feels like the whole team is being held together by scotch tape. It's like they have they double up riders on

Grand Tours more than any other team. Probably not because it's what they want to do. I bet it's because they don't have a lot of, a lot of their options to support Eunice Vindigard. And if you think about, why, why is that,

Spencer? I mean, they do have the third or the fourth biggest budget in, in pro cycling. Well, do they? If we, they,

I think so. Well, they, so they were in the whole last year. Remember this report that came out? Yeah. That's true. Yeah,

yeah. Yeah. And they've not been spending as much as other teams in the transfer market. They've been getting out. gunned big time in the transfer market. Think about Little Trek. Think about Q36.5.

They're shelling out big money. Red Bull, net company, Ineos. Envisba's not able to afford those riders. They're probably not in the top four. Probably not in the top four. And like Derek G.

Would have gone there, but he's not going there. They can't even afford a rider like that. Yeah. So what someone in the studio asked the question today. What is the future of that team in terms of GC? Because do they have someone else besides Jonas Vindigard? Or is they just, that's the plan. You keep running back Jonas and Grand Tours?

There's nobody else for the moment. I don't think so. Not anybody who's knocking on the door there that I could see to, I mean, they would have to hire a new guy, I think. Which would take money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I had that realization today. I was like, oh, yeah, these guys, guys are all cooked, but they probably didn't have any other options because they've been slow, they've been bleeding riders, you know, they'll let riders go, but they don't replace them one for one. And they've been doing that a few years in a row. And I think it's cut up to them.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You may have a point there. Anything else on today's stage before we take a break? I think that's it, Spencer. Yeah. No, I think we covered, we covered everything. All right, well, let's take a quick break. And then we have some questions and a preview and maybe a little bit of news. Everybody, this episode is brought to you by Tofosi. July and August are prime riding months. And if you're following the racing, you'll probably know how much the right eyewear matters on the bike. And Tofosi makes performance cycling sunglasses for serious riders who want the features that matter without the premium price tag.

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Do you want to do listener questions first or do you want to do? That's through the questions first, yeah. Okay, so this is someone, the title, the subject of the email was also if you want to ask us a question, send an email to info at we do. team and we'll try to get to it. The subject was should Jonas do more classics? And the question starts.

I've noticed that Pagotcha can open a gap on a climb and make a slight difference, but he really seems to separate himself when he goes solo after the climb. For example, he gained all in his two minutes between the summit of the Tourmalet and the finish on stage six. You've commented on the show how this is a new way of racing with longer solo efforts.

We all should say that's just that's Ted and Pagacchar being maybe the best writer of all time. back to the question. It strikes me that this is not new, and we have been seeing moves like this and one day races for years. The difference is that Bagachar

is not only the best climber in the race, but he can also make this type of solo effort that he has built up in practice during the classics. With that in mind, would it be beneficial for Vindigard to ride some classics where he may be in a similar race environment? Maybe not Roubae,

but it would serve him to race and Flanders, would it serve him to race in Flanders or the Adennes? Even if he doesn't win, could the stamina and by, bike handling skills from these races help them compete with Bagotcha and the Grand Tours? No, I don't think so. My answer is no. Probably that's right.

For the simple reason that, I mean, they're just not the same kind of riders. Jonas is a pure stage racer. He's never, as far as I remember, he has never won a one day race in his life, at least not as a professional. And but I think the real reason why I'm saying no is that he simply doesn't have that mentality. He cannot be bothered. He's completely unmotivated by one day races. And it's not going to change now. I mean, he's almost 30 years old now.

Or is he maybe already 30? I don't know. I think he's 29 going to. So, you know, it's not going to change now. And, you know, he's already trying to minimize the risk. and you know like cutting out races and just preparing for his goals which by the way he's done an amazing job this year except now he's one every other single race he's prepared for so i i i don't see him changing his mind and getting himself into these one-day races where there's more risk of

crashing and it's not going to happen it's not going to happen he's just not he's not motivated for it he's not built for it. And I think he's right to just stick to stage races. That's probably what he should be doing. Well, I can tell you, I wish he would do classics. I think he could do great in him if he had the mentality, as you say. But I think the big hint that we should all take, there was never a better chance for a one-day race than the world championships last year for a climber.

I mean, think of when Pagatra went. Who was with him? It was Paul Sixthos. It was Isaac Gautoro. It was Juan Ouso. So, and if he wasn't there, he doesn't care. And think about European championships. There was also, that was an amazing chance for climbers.

And he did not seem to care. And he got dropped like 100 gay from the finish. So, yeah, I think he's not locked in on that. The guy can barely do the tour. He's talking about retiring in the middle of the tour of France. He's going to add more work on his plate. I personally think, I think Spencer, that interview got probably blown a bit out of proportion, you know. Yeah.

For starters, I am not 100% sure that that interview was actually done on the rest day. I think that comment came out of the rest day. But I'm not, I'm not convinced that that interview was done on the rest day. We don't know. We don't know. You know. Same like last year. There was it last year two years ago that this interview of his wife that got blown out of proportion during the, during the tour.

It was also not during the tour or before the tour. It was way before. And I think, I think, you know, we have to. But fake these quotes always with a little grain of salt, right? Because we are making ourselves guilty at playing the game of, you know, that's what I've heard. That's what's been said. And then we kind of create our own stories, right? But, but, but yeah.

Anyway, to come back to the point, it's not a secret that Jonas has been vocal about the incredible, strange. on his life and, you know, the demands on family life and stuff. I mean, it's his right. It's very understandable. But on the other hand, there are riders, rivals, who are not going to care and are going to do everything they can and live like a maniac during five, six years, to get the maximum out of their career. And once you get to the point where you're not.

willing anymore to go to those lengths and do those sacrifices or when it starts to feel like a sacrifice i always say spencer this is something that i you know once you start to feel that what you're doing is a sacrifice you go to fdj it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's When it doesn't feel anymore, like that's your passion and that's what you love to do. Forget it. You're not going to do it. You're not going to be on the top. And that's usually what ends a career, right?

I mean, when you're, you know, early 30s, mid-30s and you start to say, oh, you know, what, I'm not, I don't want to do this anymore. I've done this now for 10 years, 15 years. Screw it. You know, that's it. Game over. Yeah. You used to see it more, you know, there would be retirement teams. Like, if we're being honest, Israel Premier.

used to be a retirement team where you didn't want to do the work anymore. So you would go get paid a lot of money to be on a team that would collect riders like this for reasons kind of unknown to me. But you just have guys who would be champions. And then they'd five, six, seven years ago by it and they don't do anything. And it's because they're not locked in on the sacrifice. It starts to feel like a sacrifice. And they don't want to do it. I mean, I kind of know the moment.

I think the moment you start to use the word sacrifice in your vocabulary. It's already the beginning of the end. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. It needs to be what you love to do. It needs to be your passion. There's that there cannot be anything more you want to do than train, suffer, prepare, and race.

That's what you want to do. Otherwise, you can never be the best. Well, when we met up in the Costa Blanca, it was early December. And Tata Pagaccio was in a hotel. And he was there until the end of January. And I looked it up. hotel cost 60 euros a night just to give people the feeling for the amount of luxury that he's in you know 60 euros is not a lot of money per night for a hotel and he's there for two months over the holidays and i bet it does not feel like a sacrifice right at the moment yeah at some point i probably will yeah but as far as i have been told the guy enjoys what he's doing he loves to ride his bike loves the race and you know Sometimes he may come across today.

He was a bit, and you know, his post-race interview was a bit, ah, you know, kind of be bothered or not interested. Would you feel like that after riding 50K an hour? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd feel a little, I don't know about this. I think tomorrow, tomorrow we're going to see a different guy. Today he was definitely not motivated. But anyways, yeah, that's my, that's my take on it. You need to be, you need to be passionate.

It needs to be what you love to do. And you need to be obsessed about it. Yeah. I kind of know what he means, though, when he says, like, if it's, if I said, if it's like this again, I don't want to do it. And, you know, we've all been in that mentality. We're like, this is not amazing. Then you don't, you should also calculate that the team is probably not going to support you all the way. You know, you need to see the 100% commitment all the time. You know, so I don't know. I mean, I don't know how. much weight and importance we can give to these quotes and in which context they have been said.

But it's, I don't, I don't like it. I don't like it. It's not, um, no. It goes, I go back to that energy, Spencer. Already that's making those statements that already creates a type of energy. That's, that's not the winning mentality. You know, that's a good point. And it trickles down.

It's not just, because Jonas is going to be fine. Jonas is Jonas is always going to be great. But it trickles down to the rest of the team. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Beaconzoli, think about the kids, Jonas. Think about Pekinsoli.

He needs a good role model. But here, let's do one more. I don't want to be, I don't want to be bashing on Jonas too much. It's just an observation. And it's just a feeling that I have that the energy and the, you know, the sparkle. is not there. The spark is not there. Well, now that you bring it up, I mean, you've been in situations where there's a big personality. They're kind of leading. They're the example in an organization. And when they get checked out,

sometimes they can get away with it. But it does poison everybody else because then everybody else starts behaving that way. And that's really not good. I hadn't thought about that until you brought that up. So that isn't good at all. This person needs her help. So we have to answer this question. We can't kick this down. I don't want them thinking UnoX is an evil company. So Matthew from Eagle, Colorado, right over the hill, emails in and says, it's enjoyable seeing smaller teams like UnoX perform so well and keep the race exciting. However, since both of these teams are sponsored by European businesses, I have no idea what or who I'm cheering for. What is an UnoX? Hopefully it's not a scandalous version of the Uno card game only allowed

in Europe. And what about teams like Kahul-Rol, Alpison Premier Tech, said all a quick step, or Vizma, who are these names? And then they bring up a good point. It's often confusing for Americans that the teams are based on sponsorship and not cities or locations. And especially when they change season to season. This would be like what the rockets are trying to change where they have the name. The rockets. And you have a, it's like Ferrari F1 is not going to change its name, even if they have businesses come in and sponsor them.

But Johan, UnoX, I believe, is a Norwegian, like a roadside, like gas station. company, correct? Yeah, I thought it was like supermarkets or something or like a like a 7-Eleven, whatever. Yes. And they also own 7-Eleven. They own 7-Eleven. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's called the parent company is called Wrighton and it's a family. It's like the Wrighton family. It's like a big company that owns all these businesses. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, there's a point to, you know, a very valid point to you know, the teams are named after the sponsor. When the sponsor's gone, basically the team is gone if you don't find a replacement, which is what cycling has been trying to accomplish for as long as I can remember,

professional cycling. You know, it would be great if it's, for example, team, whatever, just to call it team Lafavor, for example. Team Lefevre is Sudal, is quick step, it's the Koenig, it's this and that, that there's a name that is always that always stays the same because that that allows you to create a huge fan base also who will support the team no matter what the sponsor is unfortunately you know in other sports it's a lot easier because you like any football teams or rugby teams or whatever they own a stadium right that's the real estate you own and that's where the fans go and gather

every week or every other week. That's not the case in cycling. Cycling is a rolling circus. And unfortunately, for the teams, they are 90% or more, depending on sponsorship. There is no other revenue. A lot of other sports, the teams own a piece of real estate. They have entrance fees, revenue, and they have a considerable share in TV rights. none of this is the case in cycling.

So you can't have, I mean, the rockets, yeah, okay, rocket. But I would, I mean, if there's, if there's a big sponsor coming in and puts a lot of money, they're not going to be called the rockets. They're going to be going to be called whatever, you know, the name is. Because that's what that's, that's also on the other hand, the others, the others, it's interesting for a company that you can actually be the team as a sponsor. You are the team. You know, you're not team X presented by so and so. But I should say like Mercedes, the team is owned by Enios, but it's not called Enios.

You know, there's just like a non-starter. Like, no, sorry, like the name's Mercedes. That's what people know us as. Yeah. And, you know, like the Denver Nuggets, my favorite basketball team, they have a stadium and people come watch the games, but that's only 20% of the revenue is the stadium. So it shows you that there are ways to make money outside of people coming to watch you. But if you're not, we don't need to get into the TV money discussion right now.

But that would be like the. Yeah. Yeah. What about Kahural? That's a bank, right? It's a Spanish bank. It's a Spanish bank, a Basque bank actually from the Basque country. A lot of good Basque banks.

Santander, I believe. No, that's not Basque. That's not Basque. But yeah. What's going on in that coast? is there so many banks coming from there. It's the richest part of Spain. The northern,

northern Spain is the richest part of Spain. Most industry. Because the weather's so bad. Yeah. And, you know, they're basically, I mean, one of the, one of the stigmas is, you know, that the northern part of Spain is carrying the southern part of Spain because, you know, everything below Madrid is supposed to be, you know, super hot. People don't work.

They're lazy. You know, they're not productive. That's, I mean, that's, I mean, I don't. know if that's the case, but I don't think it's the case. But that's what they say is. The northern part of Spain is the richest part of Spain, for sure. It also is like a free, free access to the Atlantic Ocean, which I'm sure has helped over time. Alpacin is a out.

Albusin's the shampoo. If I'm here. Hair products. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. Proverbs. Yeah.

Premier tech, I believe is a peat farming company. Don't quote me on that. You know what? I don't know what premier tech is actually. They're definitely Canadian. And they're involved. somehow in Pete. What is Pete?

I'm not quite sure. Write in if you'd like to tell us about that. Sudal, what does Sudal do? Sudal, I think, is industrial glue. Industrial. I love that. Yeah, that's got to be a good business. Quick step is flooring.

I only know that because they're sponsored the team. And then Vizma is a Norwegian tech company, like a back-in to logistics company who was the logistics software for. Umbo, the grocery store company who used to sponsor the team as well. But yeah, I guess we are showing a problem here where most of these sponsors, you can only consume them in a limited market, but then they're advertising to a global market. Like, I don't think I can go buy Alpison glue or Alpsom shampoo. I think that's only in Europe.

I don't think that is in the U.S. I think it is. I don't know if I've ever seen it. I'm going to check next time I'm at the store. But, yeah, a lot of these are, these are kind of the old school teams that they've picked, too. Like, you know, UAE is a country. Well, Alpacin is a good example, for example, that, you know, this is a sponsor who has been around for a long time. You know, if you remember Alpacin, I mean, they've been around a long time before they were with Vanderpul.

Initially, John Dagencolp's team. They were with what's now picnic post-nip. Yeah. What is picnic, by the way? Then, I don't know. Then they were with Katusha. Yes, yes, Katusha. And then they moved, then they moved to the vulnerable team.

Yes. These are some good. Katusha was just a Russian government soft power play, I believe. And then they started a clothing company. No, Katusha. Katush is nothing. Katush is a made-up name. The story behind that sponsorship back in the days was, so Katusha was, there's this ex-cyclist converted to businessman, converted to multi-billionaire Igor Makarov, who was politically very well connected and got the task, or I would say probably the order of a of the number one in Russia, Vladimir Putin.

to take care of everything that was cycling. And so he sponsored everything with his own money and just came up with the name Katusha. Katusha is, it's two things. It's the name of a tank, like a war tank. And it's the name of a woman. But there was no product, nothing. It was just Katusha, made up name.

Well, their jerseys for a while had the skyline of Moscow on it. I don't know if that would fly anymore. Yeah. That was that was the, yeah. I know a bit the background of that team. So that was a strange setup. So it's not similar at all, but it's like similar in SN is just nonsical, right? That's just that's nothing.

That's just a name they've made up. No, no, no, no, no, no. NSN is a company. Yeah, NSN is called never, never say never. It's a media and event company owned by, what's the guy's name, Spong, the Inesta? Yeah, Andres Iniesta. He's the owner.

I'm already suspicious of this company. Of that team, of that, of that, of that company. So. Yeah, an ex-athlet out there with the media company. I don't know. Don't know. Don't go into that company. And events.

But, but anyways, what's clear is that the money to fund that team, there's, there's very little money coming from NSN. Yeah. You know, it's clear where's behind that team. Yeah. Yeah. We know. Yeah.

Where the money comes from. Yeah. On that. But the great jury. Jersey's though. We got to say. Yeah, I love it. I like it. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. I like it. They've won us over. They've won our hearts. So, Johan, oh wait, you have news before we do the.

Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. I have a last minute's potential scoop, not confirmed, but looks very likely. So apparently, I don't know in which media, but Prince Albert of Monaco has given an interview somewhere. And something has slipped out of Prince Albert. Maybe he didn't want to say it. But he said in the interview, and we know that they've been spending time together. And Tade Pugacchar lives in Monaco.

And I've seen lately, I mean, just before the tour, some pictures of them together. So Prince Albert said that it's, that Tade Pugacar will be part. participating in the Vuelta, Spain, this year. And so I just saw that today that Pogacca was confronted after the finish or before the finish, before the stage with this quote. And he said, well, if the prince said it, there's a high chance.

So we'll see most likely Pogacchar in the tour of Spain. If I want to continue to get your zero percent tax rate. you're going to start this race. Signed, Prince Albert. It does start in Monaco. So it's already a good reason to be there. It's super good. If a guy like that, if he sees the race, he's going to jump in it.

He's not going to not do it. Thoughts and prayers to everybody else that was hoping to win the world to Spain. But I think we should say that this is in this. This is probably happening because Montreal, you hold the belief this is kind of an open course for World Championships. So let's also start with the assumption. He's got to win the vault at some point. So he's got to do it.

Yeah. And then next year is the better world championship scores for him in France. So he probably doesn't want to do it next year. So he's got to do the vault this year if he wants to win it. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I mean, he can still do both. You know, he can see it's very likely that.

It needs to be considered. Good. Good prep. And then still. Well, I mean, yeah, but after the season he has done it. It all depends. He's only race like five days. Yeah, but it also depends how he finishes the Tour de France, right?

I think if you would have asked Pulitzer last year, do you want to do the Volta? He would say, no way. That's true. You know, he was mentally drained. And the weather was bad, and he was hurt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No, he'll be fine. I'll be fine. I'm pumped. This is great. This is great for a show, by the way. He's doing this. We can't do another boring Volta. Like, no.

But the Volta needs a shit. Whatever they're paying him to do it, it's worth it because they need to spice this thing up. And we get another Primo's Taday battle. It's going to be great. It's going to be amazing. Yeah, I mean, who else could be there? Yeah, I think that's it.

Oscar only maybe. Yeah, but that's not, I mean, Oscar only is good right. He might be. He's not better than Primos right now. Well, right now, yeah, but we have to respect Primos. I mean, he has a Paul Maris. He won the, oh, sorry. Bobby, Bobby has manifested himself. Sorry about that.

It's manifested himself. So stage 14 preview tomorrow, 155 kilometers. Pretty big mountain stage. We have one, two, three, four categorized climbs, including a climb to the finish, the Lamarckstein ski station. Not the same summit finish, like I said, as 2023. up a different side. It's actually, well, it's kind of more interesting because they did cold dew plants are fossil last time, which is steady.

It's 7K at 8.3% kind of steady. Tomorrow's climb, the cold dew hog is really tricky. It's steep. There's a descent for a kilometer. And then after that kilometer descent, it's the next kilometer is 8%. Next kilometer is 9.4%. And then the last kilometer is 11% of this climb. I think there could be a GC attack on that climb.

Yeah. Johan, if you want to bet on it, we have a deal with next bets. You go to nxtdbets.com slash bet outcomes. You can shop all the lines. You can see where to bet. It explains exactly what to do. Do you want to guess on draft kings, who is the favorite for tomorrow's stage?

Do you have a guess? I'm going to have to say Bogachar. Yeah, do you want to guess the line? I'm going to pick Bogachar to win the stage. I think he's going to go for it. Although I do think that the Sunday stage is even better for him. Maybe he wins both. I think he wins both.

But what is he? Minus 250. Minus 185. Which I have a surprise to see. I thought maybe there'd be a little bit more action on the breakway. Richard Carapas has a second at plus 400. Tapias Holland Johansson plus 1,600. That's actually not a bad pick.

Jonas Vinegar plus 1,600. Isaac Deltora plus 2,000. Valentin Parity Pontra plus 2,800, Rencoe Evanapult plus 3,000. I'm not quite sure how that would happen. Time and Aronsman plus 4,000. Paul Sakesh plus 4,000. Really, if you think it's GC, it's Bagachar.

If you think it's breakaway, it's Carapaz, Johansen, Parity Pontra, or Arnizman, would be the picks out of the breakway probably. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to pick Bogartier. I think it is pagachar. I actually don't. The question is, does UA control this, or do they let the breakaway go?

And even as I say that, I start not to believe it. Yeah. I, you know, I saw the interview of Polachar and he kind of hinted, you know, that tomorrow's a lot better stage, a lot nicer stage. He said, I have good memories of that stage. I, you know, I want to see if I can enjoy the crowds again. Yeah, no, I think it's Bogart Char tomorrow. I mean, for the moment, Spencer, we have not seen any.

crucial point in the race where it was uphill and Bogachar attacked and somebody could follow. Nobody. That hasn't been any. Well, yeah, there's no way he doesn't. If it's a GC group, A, he's going to drop them. And then if you remember the last time they finished here, he didn't drop them. But it's kind of a flat plateau to the finish and he just outsprinted them. And that's probably what would happen again.

But if you look at the last few kilometers of this final climb, he's going to drop. drop them and probably win the stage. I agree. I mean, if it is breakaway, who would you pick out of the breakaway? Carapas looks good. Yohannison, I like two. I like that. You know who's not going to win a stage, Spencer, from a breakaway?

Who? This year? Ben Healy. No. Not even close to what we've used. I mean, today I saw him, skin suit, you know, arrow helmet, you know, the typical setup for the for the breakaway but ben healy does not have it this is this he no in this two no and i mean if i was going to give out two wild cards it would be johanneson or arnansman

from the breakaway but i don't think i have arnsman i have difficulties to believe you know who's also strong and we will see him in many many other uh breakaways he's getting stronger he didn't start the the two de france well but he's getting stronger and he was very strong to the day is Kevin Vocelan. Yeah, he looked really good today. Vocalai is looking stronger and stronger by the day. So I think we might see him at least, you know, trying to win one of those stages. This is the classic.

You don't realize how good outside G.C. guys are until they're in breakaways. This is a guy who's been out of shape who's getting himself back into shape and he looked incredible in that breakaway. Yeah. Also, do you notice Jordan Jigat just out of nowhere is now 11. overall. Wow. Tenth overall last year.

He's back, baby. Wow. He's back. Yeah. And he was on the verge of not, not participating in the tour. I know. Did you see those? Like at some point, there was these like decisions being made in total energies because

he's not staying. I mean, I think he's going to a little trek. Well, I think he has to go somewhere because the team's not going to. Yeah. They don't have a sponsor. Yeah. But for some reason, they didn't want to select people who didn't want to wait to to resign. I don't know. That makes not

much sense. But finally, they came to their senses and they took him. So, yeah, I didn't realize he was in 10th place now. I know 11 place. That's good. I think the fear is if your best writers sign somewhere else, then it kills your chance to get a new sponsor. But obviously they have to sign somewhere. They're not

going to know, willingly lose their jobs. Before we go, I think we both think Pugachshar's going to win. It's going to be a great stage. It's going to be fun. We're all going to have a good time. So Ventum trivia. if you want to play and win a new NS1 or GS1 or just get 10% off a brand new road bike,

gravel bike, e-bike, time trial bike, triathlon bike, use the move 10 at ventumracing.com slash the move to get 10% off. That's also where you can answer the trivia question. Yesterday's trivia question, Johan, was, when was the green jersey introduced into the tour of France? Do you know this answer? I have no idea.

It's 1953 to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the tour. Talk about a good innovation. People probably, well, we talk about a green jersey. We don't need a green jersey. So there was only one jersey then, until then, only the other jersey. Yeah, probably just yellow. When was the King of the Mountains brought in? I don't know, but I think I spoke about it the other day when,

when Eddie Merck did his first tour, I think it was 1969. there was not a white jersey yet i think the white jersey came like in the 70s yeah that's pretty real same and then so maybe the 80s yeah in the 70s i think yeah yeah i definitely remember it not being there eddie merks and then yeah they got to change the white jersey we got we got to have a meeting with ASO about that well i mean at the minimum it needs to be under 23 but under 23 but maybe under 22 and i mean under 21 i mean under 21 and i mean under 21 Juan, I would make it under 22. I think.

Yeah. You could just, yeah, that would probably be good because then it would be like, Juan Ouso, it's not, he finished on the grand tour podium four years ago. It's not an exciting thing if he wins the white jersey. Like, we've known about this guy. So today's trivia question is a good one. This is a hard one. Stage 13 finished in Belfort, home of a giant lion sculpture carved directly into the sandstone cliff. Frederick August Bartoli, the artist behind the statue, is also responsible for one of the most recognizable landmarks in the world.

What is that landmark? He's also from the Alsace region, which is why his big horse lion sculpture is carved. So it's a sculpture in the in what? The one we saw today was like carved into the cliff. Super impressive. But this guy. I don't know the answer, but I think I have an idea. This, yeah, this Bartoli made the, it's a hilariously recognizable statue.

And then you have to guess which statue is it. Enter your answer at ventum racing.com slash the move to be entered to win a new bike. That will be revealed in the last day of the tour on the move. So it's very exciting. But Johan, anything else before we take off. I think we've covered everything, Spencer, exciting stage ahead of us tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah, it is.

I'm curious to see how this plays out. The intermediate sprint is going to be really hard fought, but ultimately, Bogotra probably wins. But thanks, Johan, and we'll talk after that stage.