THEMOVE - Is The Tour de France Already Over? | Tour de France 2025 Stage 12 | THEMOVE

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

Lance, George, Sir Bradley Wiggins, and Spencer Martin (aka “The Professor”) break down Tadej Pogačar’s incredible performance to win Stage 12 of the 2025 Tour de France on the brutal ascent of Hautacam deep in the Pyrenees. The crew discusses the implications of Pogačar’s dominant ride, whether this Tour is already over, and if Visma–Lease a Bike’s strategy of pressing the pace early in the stage set Jonas Vingegaard up for failure. Before they sign off, they preview tomorrow’s critical mountain time trial and take some listeners’ questions. The Feed: You heard it first on THEMOVE. A better morning for only $3.99 and our listeners save 20% today. No code needed, the discount is automatic. Go to https://thefeed.com   Zwift: Zwift just made it easier than ever to get on the virtual roads. All Zwift-ready trainers come with the new Zwift Cog and Click installed, making them ready to ride from the box - no extras needed. Zwift-ready trainers start at just $299, meaning anyone can jump into world-class indoor training without breaking the bank. No excuses. Just ride! https://zwift.com   BUBS Naturals: Check out the BUBS Collagen Club Welcome Kit with over $100 of FREE perks when you sign up for a subscription. This includes a 90 day supply of Vitamin C, coffee mug, mix wand, and more. And Use code......THEMOVE for 20% off your next purchase. You can stack those savings. Go to: https://www.bubsnaturals.com/discount/THEMOVE and use the code THEMOVE for 20% off.     Ketone-IQ: Take your shot: Get 30% off your subscription, plus a free gift with your second shipment at https://Ketone.com/themove   Ekoi: The entire EKOÏ website is currently on sale until the end of July, with discounts of up to 60%. It’s hard to find better deals! Special offer With the code THEMOVE15, you get $15 off any purchase of $150 made on the EKOI website until the end of July. https://ekoi.com   Ventum: Enter Ventum Trivia of the Day for a chance to win the Grand Prize: $5,000 of store credit towards any Ventum bike. Don’t want to leave it to chance, 10% off sitewide using the code THEMOVE10 or 20% off any NS1 road bike build with code NS120  https://ventumracing.com/themove/

I've been in Tadej Pogacar's position where you have another team that is taking control of the race. I can tell you exactly what he was thinking. The first thing he was thinking was, thanks guys. My guys don't have to do anything. So thank you. The second thing, and the most important thing he's thinking is this. I'm about to show these boys who's boss. I've been there. So whether it was Onse, whether it was Kelme, whether it was T-Mobile, I'm sitting back going, boys, I'm about to run you over. All right, all right. Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back to the Move Podcast. I'm Lance Armstrong joined by Sir Bradley Wiggins and Mr. George Hincapie who still

if you can hear that still has his net cooler on. Did have a hoodie on worth noting a minute ago had to take it off because he was hot. Talking about stage 12 Alain, what's up? Stage 12 from Osh to Otakam. From Osh to Otakam. Better, better. As is the case each and every day. Today's show presented to you all by Ketone IQ. Tadej Pogacar, I mean, I think, look, what we saw today from Tade obviously won the stage dominant performance

I can't even where it was in terms of over two minutes ahead of Jonas being to go. I mean, look, we have nobody wants to sit up here and ask the question, is the tour over halfway through? But we have to ask the question. Yeah, it's not looking great in terms of the anticipation on the battle between Jonas and Tade. Today was a beat down, like you said, total domination. But, you know, hopefully things change, but as it went today,

it's gonna be hard to see big changes coming. Well, we built it up, didn't we? Yesterday, we built it up that this was the stage that suited Jonas after that first nine days of racing. The question mark over Tadej after the crash yesterday, you know, we factored that in. But are we actually surprised sitting here now at the display of Tadej Pogacar? I mean, it's no surprise. And yeah, we got the next week and a half to look forward to with the time trials tomorrow where Tadej

could take even more time. Yeah, we're gonna, there's, there's some interesting, there are interesting twists here, not, not just for, for tomorrow, but the second half of the tour, other, other riders that, that, that are, that are interesting, that, that I think are newsworthy. And there were things that were sort of head scratchers for us with today's stage, tactically speaking, that we'll get into. But before we do, I know, gee,

we were out at dinner last night. It's just, of course, my days of having quite a few glasses of red wine are over, but you, my friend, not for you. I mean, how do you sleep? Well, I actually slept like a baby. It may not look like it, but I slept like a baby. Yeah, same here. I had the best sleep I've had in ages.

Because of this dream shot, I took mine before bed and I woke up. My Aura score was one of the best that I've had in recent history Yeah, same. I slept great my buddy Matt from the feed made made this just as sleep his own Fix his own sleep problems and it's called a dream shot right in front of your computer and I think yeah mine as well That's right. I forgot and I forgot you know as you get older. I forgot how it feels to sleep so soundly Yeah, just launched today available on the feed world It's the world premiere for this product and you heard it on the move. And so as I get older, it does get tougher to sleep.

When I was 20, I didn't even think about it. But even young Sir Bradley here needs help sleeping. But do you know what I liked about it? There was no pills, no melatonin. Yeah, it's tart cherry, magnesium, a few more things. And what Matt says is the secret formula is a peptide that stops you from waking up. And if you do, it puts you right back to sleep. Well, do you know what?

Tart cherry is the hot new thing in the tour this year. You see all the riders, including Tadic and Jonas drinking it right after the stage. They say it helps reduce inflammation, Lance. Yeah, well, it is available today. You heard it here first on the move, a better morning for only $3.99 and our listeners saved 20% today. No code needed. The discount is automatic.

Go to the feed.com and as Sir Bradley says, don't forget to feed the animals. I love those. I do. I love those ads. Hey, why wouldn't those ads. Hey, why wouldn't you? I mean. Yeah, why wouldn't you? Yeah, I think we gotta go back to Hold on a second.

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That's bubsnaturals.com and die young as late as possible. George, what was on your mind? I'm dying to hear this. Well, I'm kind of not sure what to think. I mean, the last several years we've seen Beastman Lisa bike as being one of the most cool, calm, calculated, tactically strong team out, the strongest team out there. And I just don't understand what they've done in this first 10 days of the race.

I mean, they've burned up, you saw Matteo Jorgensen had a bad day today, which I mean, he's a top five candidate Tour de France all day long. There could be some good things out of the, out of him losing 10 minutes today. I'd love to see him win a stage now. He's got some time behind the GC that might give him the freedom.

And he's definitely capable. Still in the top 10, which I think is nice for him. He's got, I think, 12 minutes down, so room to play. But it's a cool story. But to have the talent that they have on their team, I just feel like, I don't know, they raced as if they were leading the tour to France and they weren't. So I just don't understand the tactics. Well, there are no bigger fans

than anybody on the show of Matteo Jorgensen. We love the correct seat to see his interview at the finish. My friends, I was defeat that that was there were questions. I mean, everybody was tired. That was, there were questions. I mean, everybody was tired, it was extremely hot. He was so brutally honest in his interview that it was almost hard to watch, right? And hats off to him for laying it out there and just being so transparent.

But boy, I mean, that was defeat. Yeah, and we have not seen that. I mean, Mattel Jegenson in the last two years has been crushing it. Winning Paris Nice, always there on the Tour de France stage is when it counts. This is the first time we've seen him had a bad day. You know, like I said, I think this gives me a lot of hope

that he can actually win a stage in this year's tour because of the room behind the GC he is now. So I'm going to try to look on the positive side of today's bad day for Matéria Oeg in and hope that he gets it win that Tour de France stage finally. Mm-hmm, but just to back up for a second So if you didn't watch the stage today, they hit the first climb Feesmas on the front like pressing hard Which kind of doesn't make sense because once Remco's dropped Tadej is in the lead virtually You would imagine you'd want UAE to take it up.

Why don't they do that? I guess maybe they thought, well, we can crack Tade. But then they start dropping Mateo and then they take off, they take their pedal off, they take the foot off the pedal. But then doesn't that, what was the last 11 days about if you're just going not to go hard in the mountains when you want to pressure Pogacar, when you've gone hard to pressure Pogacar. That's kind of my big question is what was with that? Well, the spanner in the works was when Matteo started getting dropped. And I think they hadn't anticipated that. So they had to think for themselves on the road then. And obviously, we don't know if the YouTube was called up at that point. But, you know, we don't know,

do we? And to be honest, I like their commitment to the plan because I don't think they could go back on how they've been racing the last 10 days. And then I think they had to try, it's not a case of isolating Tade, sorry, getting rid of Tade, it was a case of isolating from his teammates, which didn't happen either,

because all they did was isolate themselves. Not only that, but their teammates were looking, I mean, Adam Yates was looking phenomenally strong today, Navias did that incredible lead out for the attacks. The breakaway comes back. You got to wonder had they not spent so much energy these first 10 days, what could have they been closer today and still been in the running, still had Mateo in the top five. I don't know. I mean, I think they got to,

they got to go back to the drawing board and I'd love to see them change the tactics. I'd love to see, okay, Jonas, do your thing, try to stay on the podium. But I think we need to see some of these guys going for stage wins, going into the breakaway, like let's make it a race, let's make it fun. Yeah. Look, I've been in Tadej Pogacar's position where you have another team that is taking control of the race. I can tell exactly what he was thinking, right? The exactly what he was thinking. The first thing he was thinking was, thanks, guys. My guys don't have to do anything.

Anything. So thank you. The second thing, and the most important thing he's thinking, is this. I'm about to show these boys who's boss. I've been there. So whether it was Onsai, whether it was Kelme, whether it was T-Mobile, I'm sitting back going, boys,

I'm about to run you over. And oh, by the way, thank you. I mean, it doesn't. They should know that. The team should know. I mean, come on. And by the way, fast forward. Look what happened.

When he attacked on this exact same spot, you did. On the same climb. I mean, the wind visma knew they were in trouble probably as base of the climb. UAE has three riders on the front. They have Tim Wellens, Jonathan Moraes, Adam Yates. Pogacar is ready to go. It's like, how did we?

However we ended up here, we needed not to end up here. Because they just walked right into the trap. Pagaccio goes, Bradley and I were wondering, why is he going so early? It's cause he knew he could take 10, 10 seconds per kilometer out of Jonas and probably in the tour. Well, so then rewind to the coldest of lower the first climb and, and Bisma started pulling right away, trying to make the tempo super hard. Like they have to be thinking like, well, what, had we not done that?

Maybe we still would have been there with more guys. Maybe we could have been there with Jonas and to help him out, keep the gap closer. Jonas our poach, our poacher was going to win today anyway, but they could have limit limited that gap a lot more by not doing that earlier on in the climbs. Well, Remco was one of the first dropped on the city. Yeah. Yeah. And he came back and what a ride he did. Yeah. He had the ride. I mean, next to the poker jar, the ride of the day,

I think to get one of the first guys dropped out of a group of 25 guys, mentally that's gotta be such a hard blow. He limited his losses. When he got dropped, I said to myself, I said, he might lose 10 minutes. You know how that goes, right? You try to hang on a good minute goes to two and two goes to 10 pretty quickly. If you're having that kind of day, I mean, tough kids still on the podium, still on the podium only loses only loses 3 35 on the final climb. And he was the first one dropped on the final climb as well.

But this is what my evenings are just me fielding inbound questions about you guys criticize Visma. What are they supposed to do? So I'm going to love you that question. Are you guys like if they messed up today, what should they have done? Well, I'll just repeat what I just said. Just, I don't see why they kept pushing the pace, why they kept having their top lieutenants attacking all the last 10 days, essentially burning their matches for nothing.

I mean, they weren't going to drop Pogachar on a one K climb or two K climb. I think they should have held, kept back their energy a lot more and today not ridden on the solar just to have as many guys with the onus as possible for that last climb. I mean, Pogachar has been dominating since the beginning of the year. I mean, he was second place in Roubaix. He won all these, you know, all these monuments like he's not shown weakness once. I don't get it. I mean, you have a guy who is the overwhelming favorite in this race by a factor of 10, right?

You have that same guy has a team that has suffered some losses, has some crashes, injuries, guys out of the race. That's the way he put them on the ropes. So you're the favorite, you go control the race. Let them, and by the way, that is now what they're going to do. It's your race to win or lose. If there's a 50-man break up the road, you guys go on over. You are the favorite. That's what you do. That's what Johan Bernal would have done. That's what you do,

I think. I think their information is flawed because they're operating under the assumption the harder we make the race, the better it is for, Jonas, the worse it is for Tade. That is clearly not true. I just don't know, like maybe that was true two years ago. It doesn't seem to be true now. Yeah, and where's the evidence to suggest that in the last six months? There is nothing, there's nothing.

To base that theory on that there, it's ridiculous. I mean, I'm like deep in like medical journals, like people on Reddit are talking about the way Jonas's body processes creatine, that he'll be better in the third week. But once you get to that, Has Reddit now become a demographic for? John Reddit. That reminds me.

That's right. George. Yeah. Jesus. You know that guy Reddit? He's buddies with that dude. Subject to that. I don that? You know that guy read it? He's buddies with subs that dude subs Most people on reddit live with their mum still oh 60 I

I have to disagree with that. There's a lot of good stuff. Okay Comments maybe Not what you want to be following in a three week. No, this is my point. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that what DS is a page for? And have any of those guys done the Tour de France ever? Probably not many Tour winners in the Reddit comments section.

Very small percentage. Let's, we're not going down the Reddit rabbit hole. No, let's. Let's. In the second half of the show. Yeah. Jonas Vingu, I thought Jonas, I thought he looked terrible frankly at the end of the stage. He did. When you saw Tade was clearly in control that he's superhuman at this point. Jonas, I'm worried about him and I'm worried about him because I think the easy conclusion to

come to is like, well, he's going to get second. I'm worried about that. I think he didn't look good. No, no. Where did they go from here as well? I mean, you know, Jonas has won the tour twice before, so you know, he's winning as a standard. Second place is a failure because he set his whole season around this. So how did, where'd they go from here?

I mean, well, it's the same with Jonas. He's won it twice as well. And second place is going to be a loss for him. But now I wonder if he's wondering how, how bad do I want to keep this second place? The only way he might have a shot is like to risk everything and lose the podium, the shot for the podium. Like get an early breakaway on a match.

Well, they're not I can let him do that But like just hope for pocahontor to have a bad day and Jonas go all in they'll make him do all the work That's the only chance to get this race to be exciting again more discussion too about the bike. He's riding Yeah, pocahontor is right in yeah, then I mean this starts to get you talk about rabbit holes starts to go down this rabbit hole of Folks saying well, he's he anticipated riding what's it come you know at X Average speed that maybe an aero bike Suits it. I don't know about that

My personal view is that he might look we all know this right? We've had bikes and frames and makes personal view is that he might, look, we all know this, right? We've had bikes and frames and makes that we just liked, right? You just don't, you're like, yeah, I know it's whatever. And there's debate on whether it's 300 grams heavier, 700 grams heavier, whatever. When that bike feels right, just ride it. Especially if you're tidy poker trial shit today could have written up in a tricycle. Well, he was 20, it was 22.6 K an hour. Yeah, I can't imagine that there's,

they're putting that in the wind tunnel. At that speed. Yeah. Are they? I don't know. I don't know. What's scary is Pagache are slightly below his power numbers from last year in the Pyrenees.

So what happens if he starts, I mean, it was super hot, we should say, probably because Jonas was slower than his time here in 2022. It was hot. It was in the low to mid 90s Fahrenheit, 30, 35 Celsius. That's hot. Yeah.

I should also say when I say lower, he's only doing 6.8 watts per kilo for 35 minutes. So still pretty good. How much slower was Jonas on the climbs compared to 2022? So in 2022, he was 36, 34. He was 37, 18 today. Yeah. That's the heat. Yeah. By the way, too, the, 34. He was 37, 18 today. Yeah, that's the heat. Yeah.

By the way, too, the fastest time still to this day, Bjarne Riis. Bjarne Riis. Yeah. 1996, going up Hotecom. 34, 41. 34, 40 is what I have here. OK.

Yeah. And Tadej today was? 30, 35.08 is what I timed him at. So... 30 seconds. 30 seconds. Someone on the show did 36.19, Lance Armstrong, in 2000. But you were feathering at the end, right? We're about to take our peacock break, but before I do, yesterday, and this kind of dovetails

it also into what we were talking about yesterday. Cycling is a brutal sport. A lot of the guys we mentioned, it struck me when I left the set yesterday, a lot of the guys we talked about with this stage in 2000 are no longer with us. As I go home, I get the news that we lost another. Samuel Privetera, young rider on Hagen's Berman Yaco. Axel Merckx's incredible development team died in a race yesterday, and awful.

And Bradley, you got to spend time with him. I know Colton on our team has done a lot of work for that program and has got to spend time with him. We lost a good one. Just a reminder that, boy, this sport's beautiful and brutal, all at the same time. We'll be back in two and 32. And we are back.

Also worth noting, Tadej Pogacar's 20th Tour de France stage win. I think we can all agree, it's pretty safe to say, tomorrow's uphill time trial, which we're gonna talk about here in a second, equals number 21. Far from the Cav watch. Mason Meehan 13, 14 odd stages, which you anticipate over the next five years you probably will do. Brian Smith Even this year we have some incredibly hard stages. Does he start giving some away?

Do the let breaks go TBD? But I think it's safe to say after tomorrow, we're going to have 21 at a very young age. Yeah. I mean, what did you guys think when you woke up this morning and saw 52 guys in a breakaway? Well, I did, I thought. I don't remember seeing that in a long time.

Lance is still sleeping, honestly. No, I was. I got up early because the open started today and first tee time for the open at Port Rush was at 135 Eastern. So actually could have stayed up late and saw the first ball in the air. But it started today. I mean, it's a big deal. Yeah. Well, I thought.

But I did. What do you think about that? I'm sorry. I mean, it's a big deal. Yeah. Well, I thought, but I did. What'd you think about that? I'm sorry. I was going back and forth, but no, yeah. That's, this is this new cycling, which is just what this is. Well, I watched Bruno X, the first first team to attack again today. Well, but did they make it or not? So the break goes, and I thought 51 riders this thing's gonna balloon

They're gonna contest the stage time and arms men's gonna win The cap was like a minute 30 because uno X is on the front of the peloton pagan at that close Which I and then the F is there I mean, it's all great for UAE, but I don't really get it They do have a rider that I guess could contest the podium and maybe the sort today Yeah, maybe that's why they were eager to do that. And they're worried about Rodriguez. Rodriguez was in that group.

I mean, even I saw, I mean, I did pay attention to it. But when I saw Rodriguez in there, I thought, well, now this, I mean, if he rides like he rode in years past, this is a threat. That's why they didn't, I mean, it didn't get very much time. No. No. Yeah, and it's hard when you have so many guys like that, I'd say probably 60, 70% of them are just there

kind of along for the ride. They're not gonna be pulling through and if they are, they're gonna be taking their time where some guys really wanna get a big gap. So there probably wasn't much collaboration going on in the breakaway. And there was a lot of collaboration going on between UnoX and EFJ.

The other thing I noticed is when they would show the main field It was always strung out. I was like, I mean that just shows you this race just getting hard. We're halfway through. Yeah So you saw it with Jonas today. I mean that that's a he's tired. Everybody's tired, but Yeah, that's like adding fatigue to your legs before the hardest climb in the stage The EF director was saying interestingly enough enough, on the radio, like guys, don't worry. It's a big break, but it actually is going to make it easier because there's so many people sitting on like six people pulling. So it's like a paper tiger in some ways.

And one person of note that was in that break wave, Matthew Vandenpul got some points there on the green jersey. So maybe he's sliding into the green jersey run. Well, that could be really interesting. Super interesting. Because do you know who's also sliding into there? Tadej Pogacar. Yeah, he's within 50 points. He's going to score 20 more tomorrow.

And I believe that's what they give in the time trial. And I looked up Milan might not score another green point until the final few stages. Because he can't get into these breakaways because he's too big. He's like a big sale out there. Hey, if you're Tadej Pogacar and you're the guy we saw today, which I think he was on cruise control, frankly. The guy plays nice, does interviews.

Hey, hats off to this guy. They rode great. Rode a hell of a race. Do you know the only team to miss that break this morning was Post NL, the only team to... Really? Yeah, yeah. Which shows they were all set with Oscar only. All sat around him, like 100% commitment to the cause. But real quick, back to Pogichar, I mean, is there a world where he wins all three jerseys? I mean, there's this talk on these comparisons of Eddie, Eddie Merck's, the cannibal. I mean, that's cannibalesque. Let's go, let's go knock down all three jerseys.

Yeah. Well, he'll score more points in KOM tomorrow as well. Yeah. And really KOM is going to come down to Cole De La Lowe's because it's double points at the top of that. So it's like, does the breakaway go over or does Taddy go over? He'll probably go over. Speaking of Oscar Omley, I mean, this is shaping up to be, I mean, this is our dog. Every day we're going to have the Oscar Omley check. And he's actually not that confident in the overall.

I saw an interview with him this morning. Well, it's the unknown. It's more the unknown, you know? But again, six on GC now. He's still looking great. Yeah. I mean, if he did as well, he finished three minutes back today, fifth on the stage.

What's left to work? That's pretty good indication on Otiko. 22 years old. Yeah, we love this guy. We just learned about this guy 10 days ago. But it's a long race. I mean, we never know what the Alps would bring these guys. We got to talk about something.

And this is fun to talk about. We will break down tomorrow's stage before we do, as I said at the top. Ketone IQ, our presenting sponsor, they have changed the game. The change in the energy game. You're seeing a lot of talk and buzz about ketones and its use in the Peloton. Not just that, new relationship with John Jones from the UFC great, arguably the greatest of all time, big advocate for ketone IQ, and a lot of science and research going into ketones.

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there was tomorrow. So we got an uphill TT tomorrow. I know Bradley, you broke down your warm up for the normal TT. Is the warm up the same for an uphill TT? Yeah. I mean, it remains the same. It's just, um, might it be shorter though? No, I mean, well, I'm only talking about 16, 17 minute warm up anyway, but just getting

into those threshold powers. I think the key to tomorrow will be riding in the morning and shaking out the legs from today. Riding the climb or just riding? A lot of guys might do. Yeah. I mean, you wouldn't want to expend any more energy than you have to riding up that climb because it's quite steep in parts. But I imagine they would have reconned this before already. Let's have a look. Let's look at tomorrow's profile. It is steep. Ooh. Nasty. Did I hear this correctly? Is Jonas thinking about using his TT like this? It is steep. Ooh. Nasty.

Yeah. Did I hear this correctly? Is it Jonas thinking about using his TT bike? That's what Bradley said. Well, he rode his TT bike on the rest day. And it's apparently been quoted somewhere. He said it on TV that he's confirmed he's riding these types of bikes.

There would be no reason to ride that bike on your rest day unless, I mean, there has to be a reason. Is he gonna change like at 3K? Go back unless I mean there has to be a reason. Is he gonna change like it's 4 kilometers, not even it's 3 kilometers and then it starts to kick up that makes zero sense I think you're right. Is it faster? I mean look at the pitches. No it is not and and and we've talked about the mini dispute on Tade riding his Aero road bike and the weight. These time trial bikes are heavy. I will be shocked if I see that. I would be too.

And then you just got to say, what are we doing? I mean, Tom Dumoulin did it in 2020. You guys remember that time trial? It was a super steep climb where Pagaccio wins. He did it on a TT bike and it was super slow. So I don't know. When Jonas won the TT though, he stayed on his TT bike back in about 20.

Yeah, that was. That was not. That was a steep climb. That was a steep climb. But there was a lot of flats too. Yeah, up and down. This seems to be stretching. I mean. Psychologically tomorrow for Jonas as well.

He's rolling down that ramp with Tade two minutes behind him. That's after today. I mean, you want to get your popcorn out and watch something? And we don't have to just say that to our audience. There's one guy in this world who knows that very clearly. And again, I'm gonna go back. I've been that guy. They're like, where?

Oh, it's only two, it's not three minutes? Two minutes? Okay, check. I'll see you in a little bit. Yeah, you said that to somebody. Cadell. Cadell, I'll see you in a minute, man. I just looked up briefly, the Cervelo P5 is 8.5 kilos almost.

8.4. It's crazy. So if that's the case, that's one and a half kilos more than your average bike. I don't know. Is that with what wheels? I didn't ask him the wheels. Those were the bricks tied to the.

I'll be shocked. I'll be shocked too. 68 tooth chain. But Tade's gonna rip the pavement off the road. He has, I mean, it's a time trial. I mean, that's a day where you have, well, let's see, I mean, all the friends could do a good ride too.

But what's weird, George, is it's almost, they almost are just turning around and doing exactly what they did on the final climb today. Yeah. So today was a little bit longer, 3K longer, but they all rode the climb alone. So. Exactly right. But I think a lot of people were affected perhaps more

by the heat today. Tomorrow they'll start. It's a short effort. So hopefully there'll be some closer time gaps tomorrow. Let's hope. It's going to be really interesting to watch Remco versus Lipowitz, maybe future teammates. Lipowitz looks stronger in the mountains.

One of those guys is going to be working for the other next year. Yeah, that would be interesting. Hmm. I mean, Rimco does that. I mean, if all of this buzz, and we've kind of fed into a lot of this, that he's leaving the team, getting bought out, whether it's Ineos, whether it's Red Bull,

this is an important bike race for him. I mean, if he disappoints here and lose and say he gets eighth in this Tour de France, I'm just making that up, the price of poker really changes. Yeah. Right and so this is a bit... If I'm him though, I'm coming on. By the way too, today could have been a bad day for him and look he's still there and he did fight hard but this is important in terms of what the payday looks like going forward. Yeah I felt like he bounced back pretty incredible I think he's coming out of today with you

know some some disappointment for not being able to hang with the first group but also being proud of his effort that he was able to sort of regroup not give up and claws way back to him. K was kept third place over on the GC. Pretty incredible ride for him. The only thing I worry about Remco is like today it worked out really well. Like no notes. That was perfect.

Like in a few days we're going, the first climb of the day is the Tourmalay. And so like if you get gapped on a bigger mountain stage and then you're not gonna ever catch back on and you're gonna lose minutes in the valley chasing. Like that's when the pace yourself strategy becomes a problem. But maybe it was just a bad day, I don't know. Bad day, and let's not forget today was the first

horse category mountain stage. People just react differently. They've been doing these one, two, three K climbs, really steep, short efforts. Today was 40 minutes of threshold efforts. It's very hot, so everybody just reacts differently to that. And we saw that today in first stage of the mountains. Caused chaos for a lot of guys.

I think we have eight question marks. But there's one I don't have a question mark about. I think Tadej Pokicar knows he's in control. He knows what he's doing. I think there's eight other ones. Oskar Anleik, can he stay in the top 10? Remco, did he have a bad day? Does Jonas get second? Where's Rogelich end up? Right? Etc, etc So there's I think that's a perfect point George for those eight questions except for the one big one. Yeah that

Yeah, we have I will push back we have seen riders win After getting an early breakaways like think of like now Tana at the Vuelta and what was that 2017 where he jumps into the early breakaway. Chris Ruman and Sky at the time don't react quick enough. Like I wouldn't rule it out for a guy like Jonas to try that because he's got to try something. I agree. Are you guys ready for some questions? Yeah. Let's take some questions. I just have one quick question for George because we teased it enough. When is the hat, the Kimo Sabe Aspen look hat coming, bro?

Oof. I'll bring it. Does you tell me? Someone's gotta remind me before I leave in the morning. I leave at like 7.40, so somebody texts me before then and I'll bring it. Okay. Keep forgetting. Bless you.

Oh, God bless you. The hat does not disappoint. I've seen this neat preview. Let's do the Ventum Trivia real quick. Okay. Before, because otherwise I'll forget if we don't do it now. The question, yesterday, stage 11 started,

ended in Toulouse. What historical significance does Toulouse hold in the tour? It was one of the very few cities featured in the very first Tour de France. 1903. I think there were only five finish downs. Was it Lille? Paris? You know this. It went Paris, Lille, Bordeaux? Toulouse? Lyoulouse. Lyon. Lyon. Paris. Paris. That thing about that.

We talk about how hard the bike, the Tour de France is. That was the hardest sporting event in the world. 100 years ago, dog. Like two gears. You know. No, you'd have to switch the wheel. You'd have to switch the wheel around. 500 kilometer stages, maybe more.

Now that was the hardest sporting event in the world. Anyhow, the question for today. First featured in 1994, the Hotecom, which was the climb they finished on today, earned a reputation as an infamous Pyrenean climb, including stage 12. How many times has it featured in the Tour de France? I'm going to say that one more time. First featured in 1994, Hotecom has earned a reputation

as an infamous Pyrenean climb. I'm not sure what happened. Something bad happened? Anyhow, including stage 12 this year, how many times has it been featured in the Tour? Come back tomorrow to get your answer. All right. Do we have an answer for yesterday's question? Yeah, it was the first it was was featured in the first two. Okay, and Okay, so this question triggered me so I'm asking it and it lets us talk about we haven't mentioned Ben Healy lost the yellow jersey Great defense did as well as it could probably paid for his efforts. So he could leave today. You see that that that's a, that's a five star tour for him.

One stage. He had the yellow Jersey, by the way, even for his team team could leave today. Yeah. And his struggles on that. If you watch the climb, it's like, that should answer the question. If you're like, why don't they attack every day? It's like, well, that's why, because you pay for it. So what this is from Liz with all the talk about tax tactics, I wonder,

why do we even celebrate jerseys? Someone has quote unquote earned when they might only have it simply because a stronger rider didn't want to deal with the press that night. I mean, it's still a big deal. A huge deal for a team to be in the yellow Jersey. It's, uh, you know, every rider's dream, even for one day. I got it for one day in 2006. That's my claim to fame. But yeah, it's illegal.

Don't be that. But my point is it's very, very hard to get a yellow jersey in the Tour de France. And not many riders can say they had it. Yeah, I wanted this question to be a palate cleanser because we're at the Monterey. Is he going to pass Mark Cavendish? Like that is unusual.

Like just to win a stage or to wear the yellow jersey is a career defining achievement for most people. There are two guys in this race going into the race. There were two guys that that they only wanted it at the end. They would have given it to whoever all the way to the end. Everybody else in the bike race would kill to have that jersey for a day. Doesn't matter if somebody handed it to you, gave it to you, didn't want it, et cetera. That's a huge deal.

And for the sponsors, that's a big deal. Yeah. And you have to be really good to be in the position to be given a jersey. Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. You're not riding last place. So would Tade have a realistic,

this is from Tosh, would Tade, Tosh 2.0, would Tade have a realistic chance of winning all three Grand Tours in the same seasonosh 2.0, would Taddey have a real realistic chance of winning all three grand tours in the same season? Yes. I think he did that last year, had he written the Vuelta. Wow. I think I agree with you Bradley. I think though, so let's take this question further. It's a real provocative territory. Could he win all three grand tours and win the World Championships? I mean, I wouldn't put anything positive. No, no, no, no that I say, because that's exciting. To me, winning all three, like a lot of sports, tennis, golf, etc., that's called a grand

slam. We love it when a player either wins a grand slam in a calendar year or in a career, there's the career slam. That's newsworthy. People follow slam. That's that's newsworthy people follow that That's what sports need cycling. I mean we're talking about that. We're like no That would be great. So then then my brain goes to why do all three of them have to be three weeks? I was just gonna ask that Right. Is it not better for the sport because these stories?

Because if we I think if we pose the question another way and said the Giro's two weeks, the Vuelta's two weeks, Tour stays three weeks, can a rider attempt the slam pretty consistently? And, and, and, and feel good that they're not going to wreck themselves for the following season or down the road. Now that's newsworthy. That's, I love that. And when you're comparing it to the Mercs era, and when we're comparing him to the Mercs era,

the Volta used to be two weeks long. So when Freddie Martin's won it, it was two weeks long. So we're almost putting unrealistic expectations on Tally trying to do it in the modern era when they're three weeks long and in a different month of the year. Yeah. Do you guys want, we have Ventum trivia. Do you want Spencer trivia? Yeah. I would even make the argument or make the case that the tour could go to two weeks. Oh, we're going to get put off the air here by Peacock. All right.

All right. So I didn't realize that the backlash was going to be quite that extreme. Okay, fine. Keep it at three weeks. The others, I love the idea of the grand slam. I'm a hundred percent on board because I think it's too taxing. Like the answer to the question would be they would, the team wouldn't let them do it because it would fry them for worlds.

It's too risky. Look at Sepco's. He's maybe never been the same. Oh, of grand tour recently has not been three weeks and nobody noticed. Do you guys know which grand tour it was? Come on. The 2020 Volta was like 18 stages and it was. Ooh, come on. The 2020 Vuelta was like 18 stages and it was better because of it. And nobody noticed it wasn't three weeks. That's why the professor's here.

I mean, boy, I mean, got you on that one, Sir Bradley. What was the reason for that? Well, our brains have all been scrambled like because of the events of that time. But because of COVID, they slammed the schedule together and like the Vuelta and the of COVID, they slammed the schedule together and the Volta and the Giro are running at the same time and they had to fit the classics in. So the Volta got stages taken out of it. The tour was in September, right? So there was a reason. It was snowing during the tour, if you guys remember. Yeah. Crazy. So one more question.

Spencer trivia. That's a whole new thing. I I thought that actually was the one of the best faults as I've seen because fair you cut like five Stages out of it basically fair is is this from? Cornel I Guess is there something in a champion's DNA in other words is athletic performance mainly determined by genetics look at the Yates brothers Audrey and Matthew Vanderpult and the grandfather George and Enzo Hencapi Bradley and Ben Wiggins. I think about this a lot. What do you guys think? Good question. Yeah, that is a good question. What the thing I find interesting is, you know, how much that riders sons look like their dads on a bike. Yeah. And is that nature or nurture? Nicholas Roach looks like Steven on a bike.

Enzo looks like you on a bike. Axel Merckx look like Eddie. Same style, although different body shapes. And Rick Zabel, Eric Zabel, they both had the same style. Very interesting. And I don't know the answer to it. Pete Slauson Yeah, I don't either. Brian McLaughlin That's got to be quite a bit of nurture, I would think. Just if you're starting out and you're riding with dad and you're seeing his pedal stroke, you're seeing everything about it when he stands up, what it looks like. I think the nature part, the genetics part, the engine is the engine, but the style is

from watching dad. Yeah, so I should stop writing with my son. I mean, go watch Charlie Woods and Tiger Woods. Go watch their swings. Charlie Woods was standing around since he was three years old with a little plastic golf club and watching dad. Like that's, he's like, oh, that's how you do that.

I'm just gonna try, I'm a little boy. I'm just gonna try to copy that. Right. And on and on and on. And here we are. There definitely is a genetic engine component, but there's also, there's probably someone as talented as George and Bradley and you who just didn't know how to get into professional cycling and then never pursue this. So if you have the guidance from a parent, it probably helps you get through the first couple of steps. Yeah.

That's it for questions. Okay. Big day tomorrow. Big day tomorrow. It is a big day. I mean, again, we have... It could potentially be. There's now a bunch of whole new questions. If Jonas wins, do we have to call Visma live on the show and apologize?

Happy to. I'm happy to. There was years ago, there was a particular team. I said if they win something, there was that... We used to have like this medal, and we'd be like, hey, we're going to win. And then we'd be like, hey, we're going to win. And then we'd be like, hey, we're going to win. And then we'd be like, hey, we're going to win.

And then we'd be like, hey, we're going to win. And then we'd be like, hey, we're going to win. And then we'd be like, hey, we're going to win. And then we'd be like, hey, we're going to win. And then we'd be like, hey, we're going to win. And then we'd be like, hey, we're going to win. And then we'd be like, hey, we're going to win. And then we'd and apologize? Happy to. I'm happy to. There was years ago, there was a particular team. I said if they win something, there was, we used to have like this metal Eiffel Tower. And I was so convinced I couldn't win anything.

I said, I will eat this Eiffel Tower complete. Fortunately they didn't win anything. So if the Eiffel Tower was sitting here right now, I would probably say the same thing. But fine, we'll call them. If he doesn't win, they're going to apologize to us. Yeah, you're right, because that's an unbalanced bet, the way it is.

OK, hey, I'll leave you with this. We're seeing one of the greats of all time. Like we can see here, folks sit back and whether, we'll let the race play out. This might be a blowout, but just appreciate greatness. I mean, the kid is one of a kind. And the world of sport. In the world of sport.

And so appreciate that. I know we do and enjoy it. All right, thanks for tuning in.