THEMOVE - Is Van der Poel's Current Level High Enough to Challenge Pogačar This Spring? | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: March 27, 2026

Spencer Martin and Johan Bruyneel break down Mathieu van der Poel's third straight win at E3, where he narrowly held off a chasing group in a thrilling final kilometer, as well as what we learned from Jonas Vingegaard's dominant performance on the first summit finish at Volta a Catalunya. They debate what Van der Poel's late fade could mean for his Monument campaign this spring, and why Remco Evenepoel's ability to contend for stage racing wins appears to have declined in recent years. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Hims: For simple, online access to personalized and affordable care for Hair Loss, ED, Weight Loss, and more, visit https://Hims.com/THEMOVE  

But then Vanderpull, it was his worst spring ever, I believe, or like worst spring since he became good. Yeah. I think he was like so drained from that performance. Then another thing also, Spencer, after today's, you know, obviously great, great win, right? Spectacular win. Unbelievable. He really went to get that victory with everything he had. You know, I've never seen Vanderpul so empty and exhausted and having to recover for such.

a long time after the race. That was everything he had. Now, question, how is he going to recover from this? Sunday is Kent Weevogam. It's on his program. Yeah. He will race to Can't Bavillam, in my opinion. You know, so. 50K long, right? It's, yeah, it's longer. I mean, I don't know how long it is, but it's longer than a normal. 21. That's like monument distance. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, you know, it takes out of you, you know. I mean, that's the thing also with these guys, you know, they don't race a lot. But when they race, they empty every single thing they have in their body.

And they need this time to recover. Normally, I would say after today's performance on the pool will not be fully recovered on Sunday. Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Berniel. We are breaking down a busy, a busy. week, a busy day of racing, Johan. We have stage 5 of Volta,

Catalonia happening today. Yonis Vindigard destroying everyone, showing us why he is still the second best stage racer in the sport. And Matthew Vanderpull winning E3 Haralbeka, Harold Beca, if that's what the race is still called. We're never quite sure what I guess it's technically the E3 Saxo

classic. It's kind of like a miniature tour of Flanders done on Friday before Gint Weveligam, nine days before the tour of Flanders. But won by Matthew Vanderpoll, not in fashion we would have thought it was technically a solo win but he broke away from a long way out after the time berg and then was bridging up to groups was solo from about what is that 40k to go and was caught basically caught inside the last kilometer by a three rider chase group

they didn't close the last meter though and vanderpull rode away for the win pretty incredible racing um let's just start with e3 because it's fresh it's fresh in my mind because that's the one that just finished what were your thoughts from this race joan um um Yeah, I mean, a thriller, a trailer until the very end. As you say, Spitzer, Matty van der Poole left whoever he was with. You know, there was an attack on the Taienberg from one of the Van Dyke brothers. I believe 10 Van Dyke. Yeah.

So they bridged up to a group and then, yeah, I mean, surprisingly, Van der Poole left quite early there. I personally think, you know, if he would have kept Van Dyke with him for a while, that probably have been smarter. But anyways, I guess his attack was about 60K to go, 65K to go. That's a long way. And, you know, especially in Harlebeke, you know, once the hilly zone is finished, it's still quite a while, at least 20K, I think. So, you know, usually you would say Avondra Poole has this, right?

But, you know, he showed he's human. He's still one, which is incredible. Actually, I wouldn't have bet a dollar with 5K to go. I thought that he was done. And then finally, you know, these four guys, it was Florian Vermeerche, Stranthagenes, who was the other guy? It was Stanterwolf. Who was one other guy?

And Abraham. And Abrahamson, Abrahamson. Yeah, Abrahamton. So, you know, I mean, really strong guys, really strong guys. really strong guys. And so, yeah, I mean, they got him. And 10 meters before they got him,

they started to look at each other. Mathieu just went and, yeah, I mean, it also takes a really, really strong guy and a class guy to keep going like that physically and mentally especially, because, you know, everybody would sit up,

you know, would say, okay, I'm done, you know, after such a long right. So this is the third time he wins this race. I think he has never been off the podium. He was third, second, and three times first. Mini Tour of Flanders is normally the general repetition for the Tour of Flanders. You know, he looks like he's ready, right? The consequences of the crash in Milan-San-Ramos seemed to be okay,

although he did say in a pre-race interview that it was quite painful. It didn't, it was not going to hurt his performance, but it was annoying and bothering him. So he's ready, but there's one problem. There's Pagachar. That's the problem for Matjvon de Poultz for the future for the next race is. Yeah, and it's not a theoretical. He's won it in the last three years, by the way.

Third year running all solo. The problem is not theoretical. We saw him get dumped by Pagacchar on a much easier course at Milan San Remo than they're going to race at Tour of Flanders. Today was an incredible win. I still can't believe he won that. As you said, I would not have bet any money. on that. He's not strong enough right now, though. That's the problem. Like, the math of Interpol we saw today is not good enough to beat Bogacha. Who is strong enough to beat

Bogachar right now? I mean, okay, there was Pitcock who followed him. In Mila Sa Remo, I think without the crash, Bogacha goes solo on the Chippresa and makes it to the finish without the crash. So, you know, we'll see. I mean, usually, normally, Bogacha is going to show up at his next races? I don't know what his next race. Is his next race to Flores. I was going to talk to you about this. He's only doing monuments. It's like two of Flanders-Lia.

I've never seen. Here's a thought. Here's a thought. And it's very doable and possible that Pogacchar actually wins all five Monovic in one season. That's what I said in our previous show in December. And you said, oh, no way. Impossible.

Yeah, well, it's, you know, the way. Of course, you know, like, listen, Flanders and Roubae are in Flanders. I mean, the problem is Flanders in Rwaters. Rubet is that there are external factors, which are sometimes difficult to avoid. You know, he already won, in my opinion, the most difficult one for him to win Milan-Sal Remo after a crash. So what can stop him? You know, Flanders normally he'll win again, I think.

Now, he also has a super strong team. We saw today, for example, Florian Vermeers was unbelievable. I mean, that performance was incredible, Spencer, because when they started the broadcast, Florian Vermeer's was in the back after McCormeer's. way way out of race of the racing actually and comes back and then finally is still on the podium. So, you know, we know that they have a strong team. So yeah, I think Flanders normally, you know, okay, you can also say last year, if you look at Flanders last year, Porcacar did drop Wanderpul, but Fondrepul also crashed into Flanders last year.

And apparently he was he was bothered by that. hurt by that. So we'll see. I think we have to, I think we, I'm trying to talk in that, in that way to keep the hopes up a little bit, right? Because otherwise it's just going to be Pogaccio, the whole year. We just saw a guy, which I, I don't mind, but, you know, I, yeah, I don't mind. I would like progautcher to win every race. That might not be everyone's opinion. But we just saw a guy win a 3 and a 42 K solo breakaway. And we're talking about how he doesn't stand a chance. a monument. It's kind of, it's a little ridiculous. I think when I said Bagatra is going to win all five,

you said, well, the big problem is San Ramo. So that's out of the way. I do think Rubet is a big ruby is a tough nut to crack. It's not a, that's not a guarantee win. And then the change also is, Spencer, you know, von der Poultz, when Pogacha is there, von der Poull will and has to race differently. He doesn't, he cannot go on these big attacks. He needs, he needs to try to follow. Yeah. which sometimes in Vanderpoul's case is an advantage because we have seen sometimes Rundra Poole do this incredible show, you know, like go away and then finally sometimes not make it or fade away or almost fail, almost not make it. You know, I remember there was one stage once in Tireno Adriatico, so that way he did that.

Well, he almost got caught by Pagachar and Pagachar sat up and gave him the stage. But then Vanderpull, it was his worst spring ever, I believe, or like, worse spring since he became good. Yeah. I think he was, like, so drained from that performance. I mean, then another thing also, Spencer, after today's, you know, obviously great, great win, right? Spectacular win. Unbelievable. He really went to get that victory with everything he had.

You know, I've never seen Vanderpul so empty and exhausted and having to recover. for such a long time after the race. That was everything he had. Now, question, how is he going to recover from this? Sunday is Kent Bivelgham. It's on his program. Yeah. He will race Fent Bavillam, in my opinion.

250K long, right? It's, yeah, it's longer. I mean, I don't know how long it is, but it's longer than a normal. 241. That's like monument distance. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, um, you know, it takes out of you, you know, I mean, uh, they, that's the thing also with these guys, you know, they don't race a lot.

But when they race, they empty every single thing they have in their body. And they need this time to recover. Um, I normally, I would say after, after today's performance on the pool will not be fully recovered on Sunday. No, I would say not. And we, I think we were talking about this off Mike recently is he's not the most arrow rider. So it would be solo for 40K like that on the flats. It is very hard for him, especially with the chase group that strong, working together that well. And yeah, maybe that does give an advantage when Pagotja is around because then he's not solo by himself, presumably. We should say, I'm old enough to remember when Woutvinard, Matthew Vanderpola, and Tata Pagachar were the three like lead group at this race in 2023. It seems like, and I grew up, this was a big race when I grew up.

up, like the big set piece before Flanders, it seems like it's getting less popular, maybe because of what we just said, you know, no Pagachar, no, no Van Art today, because I'd assume they don't want the fatigue. They want, like, what are they doing that's not this race? Like, what's the thinking here? Yeah. I mean, also, I mean, avoiding risk, I think, you know, these, all these races, they involve a decent amount of risk for crashes.

I don't know, actually. I mean, listen, I mean, Pagachar, I can understand because he has. so many different goals throughout the season where every time he shows up, he needs to be 100%. I don't really understand why Walt Vonart was not at the start today. But then again, you know, I mean, it's the combination of Hardlbik and Gendt Weevlgam is not an easy one, you know, and then especially because the week after, it's Flanders and the week after it's Baridoubet.

Yeah. I'm wondering if they're modern, like if modern science is telling them maybe it's not a good idea to do two classics in three days potentially i think i think before if i think before harrow baker was uh i don't know if i was i think it was on a weekend um i mean they shifted the calendar there because normally normally again vivogam was in between in between flanders and pari dube yeah but yeah it was the wednesday in between midweek yeah yeah so once they changed that you know they kind of played around with so some dates for the for the races but but yeah the combination Friday Sunday

Hardlbeck Hardlbick is a hard race man it's a very hard race it's basically the Flanders course just like slightly inverted yeah it's a flounders course and then you know it's it's nervous it's windy it's 206k yeah it's not easy but anyways so mean by yourself great great win by by by von der Poole you know I have to say, though, you know, I don't know what you were thinking, Spencer. I kind of had a little bit of doubts that he was not on a great day. When he went a solo, it took him forever to close those 40 seconds with those six guys in the breakaway. And, you know, there were strong guys there, but, you know, it took a very long time.

It took a lot out of him. Normally, I would have thought, you know, he's going to just close this in a house. heartbeat and it took him, I would say probably like 20K to close that gap. Yeah, because he dumps the chase group. He dumps G2 at 64K to go, catches the breakaway at 42K to go. Or 45 rides away with 42. Took him a long time. Another thing I was, it's funny you mentioned this.

I have this in my notes. On the Tyenberg, he's not the one attacking. It's 10 Van Dyka. So right there that's a little odd, isn't it? Like, when have you seen Vanderb? and he sits in the wheel for a long time like three or four K. It was, I was shocked to how patient he was being,

but maybe it wasn't patience. Maybe it was. Well, listen, Spencer, you know, if you can win E. Tree,

Hartlebeke and not being on a great day, that's pretty good. Solo for 42K. Here's a question for you. Let's say you're in a group with Vanderpull. A, you want to be in front. You want to be stand a wolf.

The guy's in the early breakaway. He's getting, what, fourth on the day? like that's impressive. That's where you want to be. You want to be ahead of Vanderpull. Let's say you're Tim Van Dyke in that group. Should you be attacking?

I understand attacking. You get up and over the climb. Should you be pushing with Vanderpul in your wheel? Why would someone do that? Yeah. I mean, I was surprised to see him drop straight away. You know, that was a surprise. Because if Van Dyke has already had some good results,

you know, he was second in Hetneedblood. Yeah. Behind Van der Poole, he was, he was topped in I think Kurenna or another he was up there in all those races so I was surprised to see him

dropped straight away I mean the moment he goes I think it's okay to work with Vanderpul maybe a little bit less than I mean I would say Van der Poole does two thirds of the work and you do one third of the work that would be but he looked really strong

I mean that attack on the time but it was quite impressive from Von Dyke. So I think he may have thought, you know, I'm on a great day. I'm just going to go for it, you know. I was surprised when I thought there was something wrong with my feed because Vanderpull, I was like, why are they not showing the riders behind him? But he'd just ridden off the group. And then Tim Van Dyka, who I agree looked stronger with 70K to go, was dropped by 64K to go.

It's like, well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe he did think that was his day and he was the stronger rider. good rider, though, we should say. Super impressive. Other impressive riders. Mads Pedersen kind of starts mixing it up after the Quermont with like

65K to go. Misses them. He's stirring the pot, but then he misses the counter move. We have perstrond, Pertrond Hognus from Visma, Norwegian. Jonas Abrahuntsam from UnoX, another Norwegian. These Norwegians are taking over all of sports, by the way.

Like, we have to do something about this. Florian Vermishe and then they catch Dandowolf. But that, that group was so strong. That was super. I know they biffed the win, but super impressive chase from those guys. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's also, I mean, that's also the reason why it was so difficult for Von der Poohle to stay away. You know, those were four. I mean, the wolf did a turn now and then. I mean, logically, he's been out there the whole, the whole race. But those other three guys are big, big engines. So, yeah, it's still, I still can't believe he won, man. And the way it looked at 1K to go, that was just crazy. They were, it looked like they're going to swarm them.

Let's say you're a director. We saw your friend, Christoph Roodhoo, if he was, he was yelling instructions at Vanderpull. I don't know what he was saying. Probably go, go faster, go as fast as you can. But that group gets right to the back wheel of Vanderpull. What would you have done in that group? Because I was thinking, I don't quite know what I would do here. Well, that's the problem.

That's the problem why they were hesitated because once you catch him, it was still a kilometer. So then what? So who somebody is going to attack? I mean, normally I would expect Abra's Abraham some to attack. So they were waiting for that. Then on the other hand, Vermeer's knew that that Hageneson is faster than him. And the wolf was tired. So, you know, I could I can understand that there's this moment of hesitation, you know, when, when I don't know who would have won.

Probably, probably the Visma guy, right? Hageness and would have won because Abraham, I mean, it's also after such a long chase, you know, these guys don't have much left to attack, right? It's basically whatever you have, you just sprint to the line and, you know, so I think, I think there was one clear favorite in those four, which was Hagenes. And then that's probably also the reason why nobody wanted to collaborate with him when the moment was there to catch Fonderpool. And Vermeche is on the front.

he does not close the gap all the way because, A, he's probably concerned about what you're saying. Hognis was on his wheel. He's going to outspread him. And then he's thinking, as soon as I close this gap, Yonis Abrahunsen's attacking, right? Yeah. Like, we all know what would have happened then. So it's not quite as easy as it looks watching it as saying, what are these guys doing? Well, yeah.

I mean, I've seen a lot of criticism on social media, people who are really, I mean, really, like, respectful criticism like really you mean uh yeah i mean a lot of people have never rid in the bike and and don't know what it is to be in the final of a bike race uh i agree it was it was you know within reach uh very within reach but you know these things happen uh and especially if you have a guy like van der pooh i mean any any other rider would have been caught but you know this is Matthew Vonnerpool, right? Well, then he, because he's like, just a second, maybe a second, two seconds off the front. And it flipped so fast from, oh, you're about to be caught to like, whoa, let's reframe the

conversation. You're off the front. Like, Matthew Vanderpola, foot off the front. That guy's gone. You know, like, he didn't thought like, oh, I have a gap. I just have to accelerate. There was a moment, Spencer. I mean, maybe it was the way it looked on TV, but I was, you know, it was a moment like

he looked back and he, he made it seem like he was. going to, he was sitting up. I know. Yeah. And that's the moment when they hesitated and that's when he went again. Well, we'll talk about it later in the show, but same thing with Jonas Vindergaard. These guys who win, you know, this, I don't know if anyone's an artist. The same few riders win every race and pro cycling. They're very strong, but they're also operating like at a different level on the tactic side. Like these guys are the composure and the ability like to read the race and I think, oh, I'm going to like, look like I'm going to sit up and then they're going to sit up and then I'm going to ride away.

Like that's not normal. That's pretty impressive to do that on the fly. Yeah, for sure. Anything else about what do you think of Mads Pedersen? He missed the move. He was chasing a lot. He's, he's up there. You know, he's, I personally think it's probably going to be, you know, he's, he's catching up.

He's in time trial mode to get really back to 100%. That doesn't. Most likely it tends not to work because you progress really, really fast. He says, oh, wow, I'm amazing. And then you can stagnate. He comes from, you know, this collarbone fracture with surgery, wrist fracture with surgery. I mean, we've all seen the images, him on the rollers having to rest both of his arms. You know, it's impressive he's there.

It's impressive he's racing. It's impressive he did Fort de Milan-San-Remo. He's going to be there in the fire. of Gend-Bevogam and Flanders and Roubaet, I think, but will it be enough to be at his best? I mean, I hope it for him. You know, he's a very likable guy. He's really great great bike rider, but I fear that he's going to hit his ceiling now. And when he thinks he's going to keep improving, then it's usually when you kind of stagnate.

So I hope I'm wrong. I'm hoping I'm wrong. Listen, it's incredible where he is right now. So anybody with, you know, six weeks ago, he was on the floor on the ground in Guelta Valencia with broken bones. So, you know, these guys are not normal, you know. Yeah. And he has a bad race and finishes 9th at E3. So pretty good.

Pretty good little comeback here. I am shocked at how strong he looks. Like, that was pretty impressive today. We'll see. I don't think he's going to, he had like, remember that 50K solo breakaway at Get Mobile Gum last year? I don't think that's going to happen again. but I'm curious to see. Also, Gentwebvogam is no longer called Gettmobbogm?

What is it? In Flandersfields or something? In Flanders Fields. Yeah. And then it continues, but I can't like even get it to expand. Well, this is in Spencer. It's had Bevelingham. It's got like the dauphinet is the dauphin.

It's like the dauphiné is going to be the dauphiné. You know, it's the same thing like Grand Prix E3, Ardlebeke is going to be Grand Prix A tree, Hartlebeke, you know? So what's the historic crossover between? Because I always say about Omloup, it feels big in the moment, and then you've almost forgotten it by Flanders. What's the historical crossover between E3 winners and Flanders winners? Is there a strong? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, many.

Many. Now, what never has been done is somebody winning Flanders who has won Omelope. Yeah, isn't that weird? Yeah. So, you know, Fondar Puck and, I mean, it's going to be hard to be too much. But hey, there's circumstances. You know, you never, you never know. Especially in Flanders and Roubae, there's a lot of things that can happen outside of being the strongest on the bike.

I still can't believe Fogacca's doing sin. His schedule is San Remo, Flanders, Rubet. That's like, I don't think I've ever seen that. And I'm not, no? I don't think he's doing Amstel. He's not crazy. Oh, he's not doing Amstable? Yeah.

But that's a fool, Aaron. That makes more sense. Has he ever won Amstel? No, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What year would he have won it? Two years ago.

He didn't race it. He did Stratas and Ramo, Catalonia, Liage. Okay, well, three years. He won, I'm sure he won Amstall. Okay, 2023 he won Amstel. Okay. Because he did Flanders. He didn't do Roubae.

That was the difference. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So he never needs to go back to. amstal gold again. Yeah. That's done.

But this is crazy. It's Flanders, Rubé, Leage, Romandy, Swiss Tour de France. Wow. Wow. That is a serious, that's a not- Messing schedule. And then in between, I guess, there's altitude. Yep.

Going altitude. After Leage, there's altitude, they'll tell Romandy, and then between Romandy and Dauphine, between Romandy and Tour Swiss, altitude, I guess. Probably more altitude. They did seem, they did. They did seem a little down on altitude. They said they're going to try to do less altitude.

In 2026 and 2025, they weren't totally sold on it. I would actually be really interested in know what his exact protocol is. How much he's sleeping in altitude 10 at home and how much is. You know, I mean, you didn't do altitude at home also. Yeah. So I think that's like the new trend. Yeah. Anything else on E3 before we go to Catalonia?

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on the semester ride. Okay, Johan, we're back. We've traveled from the rainy, the rainy fields of Flanders over the Pyrenees, Volta Catalonia. It's been a weird race so far because it's been cagey and we've had, not cancelizations, but shortening of stages. So stage one was like, like this classic uphill KG sprint, one by Dorian Godin, very good sprint for Enios this year. Stage two, another uphill sprint, won by Magnus Court, really impressive. Stage three, one by Dorian Godin from Enios. Stage four, another sprint. Ethan Vernon, because the summit finish was called off because of gusty winds.

I've been in gusty winds myself at high altitude, and I totally get why they did that. And then today's stage five, stage three, by the way, was the stage that Rimco, I'm going to pull up in a pole decided. I'm just going to run up the front of the Peloton with Jonas Vinegargarde in my wheel. And I'm going to pull them around. And then I'm going to crash in the final roundabout, thus negating any work I just did. stage five really tough summit finish like 19k long cold cold de paul is that what this is it's like 19k 7% average i had a feeling that it was going to be uh just like a show for yonis and it was he attacked felix skull is launching the attacks earlier yonis vinaigard goes and he doesn't

you know he's not like a pagacho where you're like oh my god he's he's launching but he just kind of grind you down and by the finish he finished 51.7s seconds in front of golf, 101 in front of Lenny Martinez, who finished with Florian Lipowitz, who is now the G.C. leader on Red Bull because his teammate, Remko-Evnappol finished 138 back. The G.C. is now Jonas Vindegard. First. Felix Gall, Lenny Martinez, third, Florine Lipowitz, Valentin, Perry, Poncha, Remco Evanapole, and Yonis Vinnigard has almost a minute lead on second place, Felix Gall. What were your takeaways from this race? Yeah, well, for starters, Spencer. So we went through the winners of those sprints.

You know, I think logical. You know, Godon was super strong. He already showed this in Paris Nice. You know, great, great addition for Ineos, man. Yeah, huge pickup. Like one of the best pickups they've had in a long time. Win's races, wins races, you know, wins races. Magnus Court, that was, you know, it's been a while since we've seen Manus Court win a sprint. And that was and then Godin again. So the first three races were, won by the moustaches of the peloton, right? Yeah.

Yeah, about stage three, Spencer. I have, you know, this, this attack of Remko going away on the flat and then Jonas following him. I didn't like that, man. I think it was clear that Red Bull had a plan. They all knew it was going to be crosswinds in the final. They were super organized. You know, they were all in the front. they broke the peloton.

If I'm not mistaken, Almeida was in the back. I don't know if there was anybody else caught, but Almeida was definitely in the back. So, you know, at that point, and also Vizma was there with three or four guys. Ineos was there with four guys also, I think. So, you know, at that point, you say,

you have to make the assessment, what's the situation? We got rid of one rival, but, you know, We are not the super favorite here unless you think you are the super favorite. But you cannot not say that if you're on a finger guard is in the race. So, you know, when that happens, you need to keep relying on your team, you know, and keep the team together and try to take as much possible time, first of all. And then also when you stay with your team in Crosswinds, you stay out of trouble.

Because a lot of things can happen in Crosswinds. You can go off the road. like so uh that was kind of undoing everything the team had done before and and you know they yeah they may have they might have made it to the finish without a crash and it could have been a stage win but you know is that really worth the effort because they went how long was it was it 20k 25 k 28k man yeah so you know that kind of effort when you're there to do try to be up there in DC and you know especially with the three i mean ultimately it's going to be only two mountain stages but initially three mountain stages uh that's not um i didn't like to see that you know

so you can say well um ramco is impulsive you know he feels great okay you can say okay yeah in the moment of in the heat of the moment you do that but i don't understand why from the car there has not been a callback. Say, Ramco, okay, you're ahead, but your big rival is with you. You know, if we think this is going to go the way we think it's going to normally because I think Remko usually when he gets into a stage race, especially coming off one month of altitude,

he's normally always super good. So that was in their mind, right? Remko's good. He's going to be first or second in Catalonia. then if you're away with your big rival and and you see that the big rival doesn't doesn't work or works a little bit you just don't push it you go back to your team go back with the way it's safe it's safe there with you you know so your big rival is not working as hard as you because they're in your wheel yeah but I don't understand I mean

I don't understand why from the car there was no instruction to say Remko back off you know this is not going anywhere we're not here to win a stage we're here to try to win the Catalonia, right? Because at this point in his career, what difference does it make if Ramco wins his stage in Catalonia? No difference. It's either he wins the G.C. or he doesn't. That's the only thing that counts. So I blame the direction from the car to not have said or ordered or maybe whatever has been said, maybe Ramco doesn't listen. I don't know. I'm not there. But I, but I, I, I, feel like there's not been a clear instruction from the car to assess the situation and call him back once they saw that Jonas was there. But he shouldn't have gone, for starters,

he shouldn't have gone by himself. You know, if you have a plan to split the peloton with the crosswinds, you stay with your team, man. That's the way you're going to make the most difference. Yes, I agree. I agree. He shouldn't have gone. He shouldn't have gone and he shouldn't gone with Jonas and his wheel. Let's even think about this. This is what really starts to worry me. So his team has a plan. They execute the plan perfectly. Has he not been listening? Does he not know? Like,

what's going on here? How does he not, he should be looped in on that. He leaves them. Let's say he rides away solo. Let's just, wow, works out perfectly. Remco, you're so strong. You're unbelievable. Also, Jonas, man. Yonis is operating that guy knows what he's doing, right?

He's on his wheel. Remko's yelling at him. He's working a little bit, but he's working enough to keep Remko working. So like, Yonis is like Kaiser Sosa in this situation. Like, he's putting Remko where he wants it. But let's say Remko rides away. Just play this out. Okay. Well, Jonas is there with his big, strong team. That's not a problem. And you know what? They just have to wait for UAE who's chasing behind because now

Red Bull's not going to push the pace. And what would Remko gain two seconds plus the Yeah, because also Spencer, with the attack of Remko, right, what he accomplished actually is that the UAE guys who were dropped came back. Came back and pulled. There was more people in the Peloton to work. So that was not a move I liked. Agreed. Listen, we would probably have been saying differently if they make it to the finish

and Remko beats Jonas in the sprint. We would have said, oh, you know, amazing. But still, in the long run and the big picture of the GC of Catalonia, it's not a smart move. well and you open yourself up to events like the event that happened when he crashed because you're on the limit man you're not thinking right you've been pushing 550 watts for the last 20 minutes and you make a mistake in the final roundabout and then you're I still don't understand why I mean we you know it's very unusual you know to it's bad luck obviously you know he said he was on the hoods and then he at the moment he went to the drops he must have hit a hole or something um it's it's bad luck A journalist went to look at that stretch of road, no hole. I saw that, yeah. It was not a big hole.

There was a tiny little crack. But listen, it can happen. You know, I think it was actually also a tiny bit of a speed bump just before the roundabout or something. It can happen, right? Listen, if they make it both to the finish, even when Remko would have been pulling all the time, I still think he would have won the sprint. You don't think they would have gone. caught. Those guys were closing in fast. No. No. No. No. They wouldn't have gotten caught.

What do you think the final gap is? One second, two seconds to go on. Yeah. It's insignificant. It's a chunk of work. It's significant. But, you know, the bonuses, you need to take the bonuses on your big rival, you know? And you know. Yeah. It's not a 10 second bonus. It's a four second bonus. It's a four. Anyways, it's easy for us to say this now, this criticism about stage three, knowing what happened in stage five, right? Well, that's my question. Did he know this was coming and he was looking for stage one? I don't think so, man.

I think I think Remko was, went in with confidence. I mean, the proof today, they were taking the initiative of the race Red Bull. They drove it on, they drove it on the second last climb. They went fast in the downhill. there was crashes in that downright crash. Pitcock out. Yeah.

Yeah. But so I think personally that that Remko was and the team had confidence. I mean, you know, until you're not there, until you, I mean,

they probably also saw Parinise where Jonas won, but was not super impressive. You know, we talked about that, right? That he wasn't able to drop line. They listened to the podcast. They shouldn't have.

They got fooled. But today he was, today he was impressive. Today he was really. in control. Yeah. knew perfectly what he was what he was doing. And yeah,

there was no competition for you on us today. Well, also too, I mean, weird race because stage four rolls around. You have Tom Pickock up there picking up time bonuses. And it kind of reminded me of, like,

war generals will like hold tight. And it makes the enemy nervous and the enemy starts to make mistakes when they don't need to. all of this is just unnecessary. We have a massive summit finish on stage five. Forget about the time bonuses. Forget about attacking.

Stay fresh for that. And Jonas is just watching these guys burn matches. Like you look at Pitcock yesterday. He's frying valuable matches for little tiny time bonuses. And usually I'm a time bonus guy. In this case, maybe hold back because there's a big challenge coming. We have a problem, though. at this point, we have enough data to tell us,

Remko Evanpola is no longer an elite climber. Like, what has gone on here? This is what, like the seventh consecutive stage race that this has happened in. It's obviously a problem. You know, I mean, this season,

it's the second time he gets a big blow, right? So for the confidence, that's obviously not great. And it's also not a coincidence anymore. It's recurring. Right? So, yeah.

As I said, you know, I expected Remko to be at the level of Jonas for Catalonia because, you know, history has shown that when he gets back from altitude training camps, he's always at his best. You know, yeah, I mean, the way this sport is evolving, man, right now he's not in the top three or five best climbers. You know, you can see that the guy, I mean, he can climb, but he needs. needs to ride his own tempo, right? And that's obviously not possible, especially with Jonas and with today, you know. So, so yeah, I mean, he wasn't able to follow Felix Gall or Lipowitz or Lenny Martinez or, you know.

So, yeah, it's, I'd be worried. I'd be worried. What's the plan? Inside a Red Bull. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I think, you know, the worst they can do now is panic, right? And say, oh, you know, that's just, I would, you know, lower the expectations,

take the pressure off. And, you know, he's a great rider. You know, he can generate a lot of power. He's going to bounce back at some point. But if that's enough to be a candidate for the podium in a grand tour, that's different. Although ground tours are different than one week stage races. But as we said already, Spencer, you know, it's also not.

a coincidence that Remko with this huge potential, you know, huge talent has never won one of those seven one-le-d races. And he's again not going to win it, right? So yeah, it's, they need to get back to the drawing table. And but, you know, calmly, you know, no panic. And just, you know, I would not obsess. I'm not obsessed about the tour at all. I mean, they can't obsess about it because right now there's not enough data to be, you know, like focusing on him going full gas for the Tour de France as the only GC rider of Red Bull.

But maybe, you know, slowing down a bit and lowering the expectations could be a good thing. And then sometimes, you know, all of a sudden when nobody expects it, you're there. You know, he is very strong mentally. We know that. He writes with a lot of temper, you know, that's also not great to be a stage racer. We can see it again, right? You know, like this getting wound up and, you know, yelling at Jonas and, you know, that's not great. You know, I mean, it takes energy.

His character and his temperament, which is great and people like to see it, but it takes energy. Yeah, it does. I mean, I was just going to ask you, like, you know, better than anyone. Stage racing is a mindset. It's, you know, like a goalkeeper and hockey or soccer. They're weird. They're weird people. It's not normal.

It's kind of like stage racers. Stage three showed me, though, it's like, I just don't know if this guy, setting aside the climbing, the physical, the physical whatever's going on there, I just don't know if he mentally understands the, like, the assignment on stage. racing. Like he's out there yelling at Jonas riding away. Like that's not really how you want a stage race. And it kind of shows you why he's never won a big seven one week race. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, let's not forget. He won the Vuelta and he was third in the tour. On the Vulta. We have to say he can he can do stage races. You know what I mean?

What's weird is though he won that Vulta, how can he have won a grand tour and never one of these one week races are far better for him. That's what I don't understand. Yeah, in theory, those one week stage races should suit him perfectly. You know, I also think still that, you know, because you tend to see more and more in modern cycling, that even those one week stage races that they kind of see them as five or six one-day races after each other. Yeah. I still think

that you need to race differently. You know, you can't, on stage three, you can't go out with 30K to go and just go full gas. And then if you know that there's three big mountain stages, that's just not the way to do it. Unless these guys are super human, and they just recover.

And the day after, it's like they didn't race before. But, you know, that's not true. That's not true. Well, yeah, we saw proof that that's not true. I mean, he didn't lose that much time. He loses his 138. You know, listen, the guy who breaks all those rules, for example, is Tadei Pogachar.

How many times have we said, you know, why does he do this crazy shit in the tour? And now, he goes when he doesn't have to, you know, but yet he's so strong and recovers so well that it doesn't really matter. But, you know. Well, he goes, but he makes sure he's away. Right. Like Pagacho would never just pull with a rival tucked into his wheel pocket. Yeah. Like that starts, like are you paying attention? Is the question I would have if I was working on that team.

Like, what are we doing here, man? Yeah. No, listen, I don't think we should blame Ramco too much. You know, I blame the team direction to not have taken the decision. You know, Remko, what the hell are you doing and get back? with your team. Those are the two sentences that they should have said, you know, what are you doing? That's stupid and go back with your team, you know. I think it's a writer, a writer led peloton currently. I don't know if probably. Yeah,

but that shows you. I mean, there are teams where people talk like that to writers and they tend to do pretty well like the team we saw today with E3 question about the VALTA 22. That's a long time ago now, almost five years ago. He wins DeValta. Is he a worst client? Is he a worst client? than then or is the climbing level higher than then? Because he was a pretty good climber when he won that vault. Yeah, I think the head of the level has gone up. I'm pretty sure his numbers are the same or better than then. I would agree.

Same thing. You know, I have, let me tell you a little story, you know. I don't know if I can say the name. I'm not going to say the name because anyway, it's not, it's not a huge writer. But it's a pretty good writer, you know, one already quite a little racist. So I got this information. This guy turned professional nine or ten years ago.

And when he turned pro, he's a tiny guy, small guy, doesn't weigh a lot. So his 20-minute power was 330 watts when he turned pro. He's won races through those nine or ten years, quite a lot. And now nine years later,

his 20-minute power is 400 watts for 20 minutes. 70 watts more. Whoa. Now they did some research and he's now at the level of peak Peter Sagan in 2016, 17. And almost doesn't mean any races. That's how much it has changed. Well, let's just take this person who is small.

So let's just say they're 58 kilos. 330 watts when he turned pro that's like 5.7 watts per kilo for 20 minutes that's really good back in the day people don't remember but that was good now it's close to seven yeah isn't that wild yeah but like someone did an overlay of like Derek g racing the 2015 tour to France is like riding away from everybody at his current power numbers if you just dropped him in there but yeah the level ask got I think you're right I think remco is probably a faster climber than he was in 2022, it's just the level is higher now. Why he's not, there's probably many, a million reasons why he's just maybe his body's different than other people. But it is kind of funny. You're like, you can time trial so well, just pretend to climb as a time trial and ride up.

Let's see what happens. Yeah, well, yeah, still. I don't know. I don't know if there's also a mental aspect to it. You know, the moment, the moment he's kind of, I don't know. I mean, listen, I don't know Remko personally at all. So I can't say, but, you know, what I would do is, you know, I would, obviously, there's no doubt that he's an amazing athlete, right? His Palmaris speaks for itself, you know, like so many times world champion, double Olympic champion, you know, won all those races.

Something needs to change. I would go back to a little bit more relaxed, more features. feeling wise, you know, not super, super obsessed with the numbers and just, you know, back off a little bit and see how it goes. And especially, I would say, put less stress on yourself. You know, put less pressure on yourself because I think that's, Remko is so ambitious that he is probably the one who puts the most pressure on himself. And, you know, it tends to be the case with champions, right? So it's easier said than done, of course. You can't change the way somebody is and thinks, right?

But yeah, they need to change strategy with Ramco. I was more from a human and mental point of view, I think they need to change. Well, after this, it's a bunch of one days. Amstel, Flash, Leage, he's going to be great at those, right? He's a great one-day racer. I would say a far better one-day racer now than a stage racer. and then you have the dofone. The dofone is the one, like, that's his big test.

You're like, he could turn this all around if he wins the dofine, but. Yeah, why not? Listen, I mean, a champion, you can never ride off a champion, you know. He's done it in the past. He's still relatively young. The thing is, you know, I'm, they need to find something for him to get out of this circle now. He's in this, you know, blow after blow when it really, when he expects. first of all, and everybody expects him to be up there with the best and right away from the best.

Something needs to be done. I don't know what that is, but I would start with taking things a little bit more relaxed and doing it more like the natural feeling way. Not so much, okay, I do this and I do this and, you know, everything's so regulated that at the end, you know, and I understand certain things need to be done. but you need to find the balance. And so you can have all the best scientists and experts and aerodynamic specialists and engineers and nutritionists around you. But at some point, it gets too noisy.

It gets too noisy. There's so much going on that these guys are still human beings. You know, and yeah. I mean, that's just my thought. Well, he's got to stop yelling at Jonas. That would be my first piece of advice. Don't make Jonas mad. Don't yell at him.

Remember he did that at the tour in 2024? Yeah. On the Tuas stage. And then he was yelling at Primo's at this race in 2023. It's like, let's not make these guys mad. You notice the anti-Remco, who you barely notice, feel its goal sitting second overall at this race, quietly doing very well.

like below the radar, fifth at UAE tour earlier this year, last year, eighth at the Vuelta, fifth of the tour, fourth at tour of Switzerland, fifth at tour of the Alps. You know, he's never really on the podium, but he's, I'm shocked at how consistent he has become since remember we were criticizing him. I think it was the 2024 Vuelta. He was all over the place. You know, was he not there in the VALTA also, Spencer? Yeah, he was eight at the Valta this last year.

Yeah. And then the year before DeValta was. like it was one of the most inconsistent performances I'd ever seen to the point of being confused and been very consistent since then. I mean, quite impressive writing from him. Yeah, yeah. Listen, I mean, great result. Climes really well. I mean, he was already really good in UAE on that hard climb also. You know, he was the guy who started it, the attacks today again, right? Yeah, looks like he's in for a great season and doesn't go to the by the way, goes for the Giro.

Yep, all in for the Giro to tell you. And then the tour, I guess, is Paul Seychas and Matthew. Yeah, although I heard it's not been confirmed. It's not been confirmed. They're going to decide after the Ardennes classics, but I think he's going to do the tour, Seychas. You probably should send your best ride at the tour to France. Rule of thumb.

Yeah. Well, it depends if you're 19 years old. I would, I wouldn't. I kind of agree. Someone said to me, why not? Like, what's the reason not to? Like, is it mental or physical? There's nothing that can go wrong for Paul Sechus, right?

In the tour, I mean, if he, if he doesn't perform the way we expect, you know, everybody, oh, you know, he's 19. He needs to learn. It's going to be a great learning experience. So, yeah, no, I think he should do another grand tour first. I would send him to the Vuelta. Well, you're reminded of the you're leading imperfect to this. So Dylan Granovagin.

on Unabet Rose Rockets, who were not invited to the tour, and people are upset about this, especially the younger, hipper crowd is not happy about it. I don't understand why people are upset about this. I would say, you can't have your first grand tour as a team be the tour to France. Well, I mean, you can, but, you know, I mean, it's, has that ever happened before? The team is three years old, and they have hype is up so much that everybody was assuming that it was going to be normal. But then if you look at the standings, there's a team that's better than them in the standings.

It's Kacharural. You know, you can also say, yeah, why does Kacharural go to the tour? But why would Tietema go to the tour? Okay, they're the hip team. They're flashy. They're, you know, it's a different approach. Great. But, you know, at the end of the day, Kajarul was in front of them in the standing.

So plus, you know, tour starts in Spain. I think Kahaura might have some business with ASO. It's a nice pair of there. It's not the first. time, by the way, the Cochaterall is in the Tour de France, right? You know that, right? Yeah, I know that because you told me on a previous podcast. I did not know that otherwise. But we should, Grone of Vagan's won his last three races. His last race was, was fake. Remember, it was a Bruges de Pana. It's not Brugia de Pana anymore. It's Bruges de Buzza de Bresja. It's much safer, much better race.

He beats Jasper Phillips, a pretty freaking impressive performance. And what a pickup this guy has been for. Yeah, I did not get that one coming Spencer. I thought. You know, like he had, you know, he was not at his best at J-Co. He comes from J-Co, right? Yeah. He was not as his best there, you know, for two or three seasons and couldn't really, you know, win. But, man, the way he sprints now and the way the team is working around him also in the lead-out to those sprints is pretty impressive.

So, I mean, he won his last three sprints. Yeah, his last three races. Race starts. And he's actually Do you remember his last tour win? It's not as long ago as people think. Yeah, I know, I know, I know. He was on, he was on J-Co, no?

J-Co, yeah, he won, I believe it was their only States win in 2024, yeah. Yeah, last year he was on J-Co as well. Yeah. But still, you know, he's not been at this level for a while. And, yeah, I mean, also first world tour win for Tietamah. So, you know, that's obviously a great step in the right direction. But, yeah, I mean, I don't think they should be in the tour.

Although you could say, well, with Grunovig and now, you know, he's back with sprinting with these guys. But, you know, sprints in the tour are different. That's a different game. Yeah. I mean, I almost think it's for their benefit not to be at the tour. It is. Well, they go to the Gero. They go to the Gero and they can do very well.

They can prove it there, no? So they're probably going to do well. Yeah. They're going to, I think they could crush it. The Giro-Ditalia style sprints can suit them really well. I think it's, I think it's a blessing this guy. It's not to go to the tour for them for this year. Also, do you know, so the team in first and win rankings right now, not a shock. It is. UAE with 17 wins. Do you know who is second and how many wins they have? How many wins has UE? 17 wins. 17. I don't think that counts Del Toro, even though technically his national championship wins should count. Who's second? They're not far back.

It's not in aos, no? It's in Eos. 13 wins. Wow. Yeah. Best start in a long time for that team. Wow, that's impressive. That's a great change.

I mean, there's been seasons they didn't win that many races at 13. I think two years ago, I don't think they weren't even close to that many races. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something to keep an eye. And I thought, I mean, Gorian, Doreen Godin, one of the best quiet pickups you've seen in a long time. That is pretty impressive. Today also, Spencer, what we did mention also, we've been hammering on Remco, but big disappointment, Oscar only. You know, he should have been up there. I don't know if he had a problem or not, but he was definitely not in that crash. was he? Well, Onley and Almeda

Both Yeah, Almeida was in the crash He was in the crash, okay Yeah, yeah Well, I guess we know, I don't know I couldn't tell you if Onley was definitively in the crash or not But yeah, he finishes two and a half minutes back Not great

Yeah But it's weird as he's been good earlier this year That's what I don't fully get about What's going on with Oscar Onley this week Another So we have Almeida and then in like in rick mott so someone like enric masts he finishes 13th 145 back today like is he just totally out of the grand tour podium game at this point because of guys

100% yeah but also and rick masts comes back from a big injury yeah uh he had last year he had a problem in his leg like a how he called it like a trombosis they call like blood clots in the in the neck. He missed the last half of the season, basically. Yeah. And so he comes back from far. So let's give him some credit. But anyways, you know, Andrew Moss is out of volume contention for sure in this

paratom, for sure. And that's why Udobrooks is there at Movistar. I got to try something, right? Pretty well, pretty well. Yeah, he did well. He was with Remko, no? He was with, yeah, well, one second behind. Yeah.

basically with Remko. Also comes back from a, you know, a wrist fracture, elbow fracture in Valencia, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. And then his first race back was Milano Torino,

where he was really good. Yeah. And he was up there. Yeah. Yeah. Florin Lipowitz, fourth today. You would not say it's not a bad performance,

but that's, he's going to have to improve, obviously, to continue to get on the podium again at the tour this year. For sure. For sure. you know like i have the impression he was a bit a bit better last year at this point i think he was

second or third in parinise no uh he was second and parinese yeah very good yeah yeah uh for the basque country yeah but you know he's up there he's up there you know it's steady he's steady you know so listen it's going to be extremely difficult for lippowitz to repeat that podium right uh but uh but listen, I mean, he's one year stronger, quietly progressing. And he, you know, he's always there. He's steady. It's going to be hard for him to repeat the podium because Felix Scall is going to be on that podium the way he's right. No, he's not because he's not doing the tour. I mean, that shows you they might, because what's the alternative?

Felix Schall goes to the zero and then they don't send Paul Seishas to the tour. That doesn't make any sense. No, no, they're going to. Yeah, the decision must have been made. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Johann, do you have anything else before we go? No, I need to run, Spencer. I have a dinner in Madrid.

So it's, you know, late Spanish dinner, typically. Yeah, late. These dinner times are insane over there. But have a good dinner. We'll be back at the end of the weekend for Gemp, Wobligam, and final day, I guess, two days of Catalonia. But thank you for joining us and we'll talk soon. Okay, thanks, Spencer.

Okay, bye.