THEMOVE - Johan Predicts CX Worlds & Early-Season Racing Breakdown | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin break down how Jhonatan Narváez executed perfectly to take the overall title at the Tour Down Under, Tom Pidcock's hot start at the AlUla Tour, Tudor's early success in Spring, and how Johan sees the Wout van Aert/Mathieu van der Poel showdown playing out at the World Cyclocross World Championships over the weekend.   Zwift: Zwift just released Zwift Ride, an all-new smart bike that is changing the indoor game and making it easier and more affordable than ever before at only $1,299.99 to get started riding indoors. https://www.zwift.com/events/tag/wedu And join WEDU for our rides on Zwift. WEDU Wednesday is our casual, no drop ride and SUFFER Sunday for those wanting to push the limits. https://www.zwift.com/events/tag/wedu   Maui Nui: Maui Nui offers the only 100% Wild-Harvested meat that's completely stress-free and responsibly sourced. It's perfect for anyone looking to elevate their meals with delicious, high-quality protein.   Maui Nui Venison is offering THEMOVE+ listeners a limited collection of our favorite cuts and products. But...supply is limited by the nature of their work, so don't wait. https://mauinuivenison.com/lp/MOVEPLUS?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=show_notes&utm_campaign=MOVEPLUS&utm_term=MOVEPLUS&utm_content=landingpage     Buycycle: Buycycle is the leading marketplace for pre-owned bikes and makes the process of selling a bike safe, easy, and convenient. Head to https://buycycle.com/wedu for an exclusive offer for WEDU listeners.    

It's always difficult to win everywhere, right? At the professional level, but this is not a very strong field. If you look at the top 10, with all the respect for all the other contenders, but in the top 10, there's nobody in there who will be in the top five of any other world two races. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus, our weekly show. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bernil. We are talking a little bit of racing, Tour of Alula, what's going on there, a little bit of Tour Down Under, recap, as well as talking about the upcoming Cyclocross World Championships this weekend.

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All right, Johan, just to tick it off before you forget about it. I know the Alula Tour is currently happening, but we have not gotten a chance to speak about the Tour Down Under, which finished what now feels like a year ago. But it was really just last weekend. Our prediction of Jonathan Navarez winning from now, now he's on UAE played out really just played it perfectly on Malunga Hill. I thought Javier Romo from Mobestar, who was in the lead going into that stage attack to the bottom of the climb, got a little heat from our friend, George Hincapie, who said, what the heck is he doing? Why is he doing he doing this but then you pointed out johan he has to do that because even if he would have finished

on navarra's wheel and got second place on the stage he still wouldn't have got have held the leader's jersey because he would have lost it on aggregate finishing position so he had to gap navarra is probably the only way to do that was to just ride as hard as possible up the climb so i guess in that respect he well, still held on for second place. But what were your takeaways about how that race played out into the final weekend? Yeah, well, as expected, you know, we, it always comes down to Willunga Hill and the bonifications. And as we said, you know, I think we did the, our last show the day before Willunga Hill, right? So yeah, Narvaez was in my opinion, the big favorite. You know,

I've been thinking already a few times, you know, in, in the, in the trades and transfer show, Lance asked me, you know, what's the biggest transfer of the year? I said, Simon Yates to, to Wisma. Uh, Jonathan Narvaez to UAE is really one of the best transfers also. Um, you know, let's not forget he is probably him and Jonas Wingegaard are the only two riders who beat Tadej Pogacar in a mano Amano, man to man, last year. He did that in the first stage of the Giro. We all know that in the Giro, Pogacar was already on great form. He was really going for that first stage

and Narvaez was able to hang on and beat him in the sprint. So he was the obvious favorite. You know, he's the typical rider for that punchy terrain. And on top of that, he's he's the typical rider for that punchy terrain and on top of that he's incredibly fast so it was going to be difficult to to beat Narvaez and uh and Narvaez rode really the perfect race also knew how to wait you know he was uh if I'm not mistaken I think there was a split uh and Narvaez was not there um just before wilumga hill um i think it was was it jayco who was pulling or i don't remember who was pulling now but uh no it was not jayco i think

exactly yes um but yeah i mean you know that's what that was his terrain. Not a surprise that he won. Javier Romo, really, really good performance. And then third, I don't remember who was third. Was it Luke Plopp or was it Finn Fisher Black? Finn Fisher Black, new to Red Bull Bora Hansgrove. Red Bull putting together a pretty strong team. They just picked that guy up off the bench from UAE. And he looked pretty good all week. Yeah, a really ambitious young rider. He was from UAE and he looked pretty good all week yeah a

really ambitious young rider you know he was on UAE he was doing well there but said that you know he was he was afraid that he was going to get into that role of domestique all the time has own ambitions and moved to Red Bull Bora I think it's a good move from him. And then of course, you know, the, the, the trees, the trees, the three sprints. Was it the three? Was it three? He won three or two Wellsford.

Yeah. He won three stages, right? So Wellsford, he won the last one, two and six. Yeah. Um,

so yeah, I mean, no surprises, you know, uh, the, the typical favorites, one,

uh, all the stages and the big favorite one, the overall, uh, it is, uh, a very difficult race to win though. You know, it comes down to, you need to be good on the Hills. You need to be fast.

You need to pick up bonifications. Narvaez had all that. Uh, so he's a logical winner of two or down under. I mean, I, some people complain about it. I like it. Like Javier Romo rode the course faster than Narvaez. Narvaez finished nine seconds in front, but he had 11 more seconds of bonus seconds than Romo. So he won the GC. I think it's this fun race. It's all about like race craft and tactics and how patient you are.

It's one of the more interesting races, I i think in terms of how you actually win races outside of just going nuclear seven watts per kilo for 20 minutes on a climb at the tour de france like it's it's a real racer's race in my opinion and if you want bigger time gaps harder racing that's coming later in the year so don't don't don't get uh don't get too your panties in a bunch about that but nerviasvaez, big pickup. You're right. He looked sharp. He looked a little bit better, I thought, than last year.

It's this funny thing. You think, well, why would he go from Ineos? He might be the best rider on that team. If he was on that team right now, goes to UAE, you think, well, that's a terrible decision. How's he ever going to get a chance to win? But I've been working on this theory in just in my free time, I sit around and, and map it out. Think about it. It's really like the best. If you want to win big races and you want to beat Pogacar, you want to beat Vanderpoel, you should go to their team.

Like think of Jasper Philipson. He's had more success in the classics than he would. If he was leading a team, you want to get as close to this large celestial body as possible. And then you could actually win a really big race. Like Navarez could win a monument this year because he's on Pagaccio's team. He probably wouldn't win one on Ineos. It's this odd counterintuitive trend that's happening. Yeah. I mean, if you're, if you're, if you're really good and the race is like, for example, if

we take the case of Narvaez, right? Narvaez, he's a rider, let's say, he could be in the final of Milan-San Remo, can be in the final of Tour of Flanders, Amstel Gold Race, probably. You know, I don't know about Roubaix or Liege or Lombardy, but, you know, if you are on that team and all the attention is on that one big favorite, often a shadow, uh, leader can benefit from that and, and go away with the first place. And you know, who looked like they would have loved to have

actually my hot take for this race eneos grenadiers was the best team at the tour down under like they did everything perfectly great lead outs didn't have a sprinter broke the race up going to walanga hill they had magnus sheffield for the gc but you know he finished seventh overall pretty good finish but wasn't he was almost 30 seconds off nevias's time like didn't really contend for the win. You know who would be great on Ineos? Jonathan Narvaez. Like Ineos just looks like they're missing Narvaez, but then they just lost him.

It's this odd place they're stuck in. I know we talk about Ineos a lot, but it's a very interesting team because actually the blocking and tackling looked great. It's just like, wow, these guys are out there doing everything right. They did a lot of really good moves in the Tour Down Under.

They just don't have the leader to finish it off. Now, even if they would have a great, let's say, let's assume, assume Caleb Ewing is on good form. You know, they had the best team to do the lead out. Yeah.

You know, anyway, the transfer of Caleb Ewing came during or after the Tour Down Under, right? I think it was maybe during it. I just still don't. Someone commented in one of my articles that they've wasted an opportunity, but I don't know if anyone was beating Wellsford. Like that guy was flying at the Tour Down Under. Caleb Ewan was not going to be ready.

Yeah. From what I've heard in December, the guy was, you know, in Monaco driving his Lamborghini and, and be on the, and being on the yacht of his wife or something. So, uh, he didn't train that much. He was not going to be all noble pursuits, but yeah, maybe not the best preparation for the tour down under perhaps. Yeah. And I mean, what do you like, just, I guess, to, to play to our American off audience a little bit like magnus shuffield 22 years old finished seventh overall you'd say wow what a great result

but if you go back to 2023 at the same race finish fourth yeah i mean there's almost no difference spencer it's there's almost no difference, Spencer. There's almost no difference. I mean, you win first and second in the gym, but between third and eighth or ninth, it's a question of details. To be seventh now in the two down under, you have to be on top four. Now, if there's two or three guys who are just a tiny bit better, bad luck, know but uh

magnus sheffield must be on amazing shape that is true i mean i went back last year the top five overall finishers had their they all had their best season after that finish so they're clearly flying i mean red bull was the one that's quite intrigued by, like three stage wins, third on GC. You know which team did not win a stage, did not finish on the podium, and it's the second year that it's happened? Jay Koalula. Jay Koalula.

They must be, I'm sure that's been mentioned inside the team. I mean, it's their home race. But then also, you know, mean luke plop uh it was their leader super strong but just not not that extra gear uh he needs to finish alone right well did you see where he was and then okay and then also i mean the way he races i mean i i i mean strong strong rider but man i don't know how that guy's gonna win a bike race if he races like this you know he's either all the way in the back gets caught up in the crosswinds. And then, uh, I saw a few of his, uh, you know, attacks. It was not really a tax. He was trying

to ride everybody off the wheel. Um, you know, not advice was super, super smart. He, you know, he, he knew that Luke Plop was was gonna set the tempo uh when it was when javi romo was was gone right yeah i'm on the hill and our vice just bought his time bought his time and just waited until until the last moment and just you know finished it off i mean if you get if you made everyone publish their power files from the last 10k i bet luke plop have had the biggest highest average power because he was last wheel with 10k to go which i don't fully understand because they know that crosswinds are coming up they know they're turning every year it's a fight for position going into volunga hill

i don't fully understand why jaco sent two riders off the front like 10k before that instead of so they've maro schmidt and chris harper off the front luke plaps at the back of the peloton i maybe would have had like because we know this is like what luke plap does he just rides that way like maybe have harper and schmidt stay with him and try to get him to the front i think he's really unpredictable it's not the first time we see this however you know i mean i remember i think it was last year uh in paris he was in the leaders jersey actually and he was off the back or you know like last position um i've heard that he has very little experience in road races he was mainly a track rider and

you know he's gotten basically all his performances with his strength and riding solo off the front. So he seems to have a problem in the bunch. But still, it's not his first year professional. And he's been on good teams already. He should be a bit better in positioning. So I don't know really what's the problem there. But if he keeps riding tactically that way way it's not easy to win bike races except if it's the australian championships which he gave away by the way this year to his teammate luke derbridge yeah it's

probably that's that's fine i'm fine with that decision i mean he's never won a race outside of australia and the positioning is why i think he was last wheel i just watched milan san ramo 2024 he was last wheel going in the chipressa suppressa and then he's he's in the group last wheel again going into the pojo do you know how hard it would be to be last like to be that far back get dropped and then to catch back on any normal rider you know he must be incredibly strong this guy because any normal rider if you're last wheel on the chipresa you're done you're not there yet you know i mean he again like did he put out more power than than pagacha's teammates probably like at the front it's the power's unbelievable they got they got to do something about the positioning i don't know if we need

to get johan in there as like a special advisor or something, but my time has passed. Uh, Spencer, it's, it's all, it's all different now. So there's, there's plenty of other people who can give him advice. I don't know if get to get to the front ever. I don't know if that ages out. People still, still need to hear it. It is. I'm pretty sure it's the most, most said sentence

on the race radio in all different teams okay guys we get to this tactical place here it gets narrow everybody to the front everybody needs to be in the front it's it's nothing else than that and i guess of course not everyone can be on the front. Someone has to be in the back. That's the only way it works. So the ongoing tour of Alula, there's one more stage. It's kind of a funny race because it's on, it's in Saudi Arabia. So it's a different time than you're used to watching it. So it's the one I tend to miss the most.

We've done four stages. Stage winners so far, Tim Malir and Tom Pickock. They've won've done four stages stage winners so far tim merlier and tom pickock they've won the first four stages i would guess tim merlier wins stage five merlier looks incredible i think we were talking about him he's on sudol quickstep but we were talking about him a few weeks ago you said he's maybe the most underrated sprinter in the sport like i'd kind of forgot how this guy's got a lot of raw power like especially these sprints in the desert where it's pretty open like he was on stage three when he opened up his sprint they he dropped the whole field it was crazy yeah no he's fast you know he's very fast um

has a good team around him there also i don't i don't think they have anybody for gc there uh has his you know his loyal teammate and friend and lead out bertrand lerberge there um and um let's not forget you know let's not forget team timmerlier is already in pretty good shape although he says he's far from his top shape but you know he's done he's been doing some cyclocross races and not bad at all actually you know he's been top 10 in in in some really good races he's done uh some beach races also in belgium and the netherlands beach racing is extremely popular in the off season and they're hard uh so he comes in already with really good form and you know

with that top speed it's difficult to beat him if he if nothing goes wrong in the sprint and he has a free free road uh it's going to be difficult to beat him also tomorrow so nothing goes wrong in the sprint and he has a free free road it's going to be difficult to beat him also tomorrow so i i'm i'm expecting him to you know to have three stage wins of course the points jersey uh and a great start of the season again for him you know he's uh i mean the guy wins a lot of races i don't remember how many but i think it's more than 15 races he won last year he oddly doesn't go to a lot of grand tours i kind of look i mean that's the new thing also this this year he goes to the tour yes he could be the yellow jersey where after stage one is a sprint it's possible it's possible i assume that's part of the reason why they're taking him but i mean he was on alpacin now i'm just going back through the Merlier history in my mind.

He was on Alpecin in 2021 at the tour, win stage three. And you know who his lead out man was? Was Philipson. Yeah, it's Philipson. It's crazy. Like what a stacked team that was. I remember the interview of Philipson after the stage. You know, he was happy, of Phillips and after the stage, you know,

he was, he was happy of course, but he says, yeah, well, I'm also going to have my, my chance because I'm not a lead out, man.

I think after that he left, right. Did he leave the year after or two years later? I think he left at the end of 23. No, you don't think so. Hold on a second. He left at the end of 23. No. You don't think so? Hold on a second. He left at the end of 22.

Oh, you're right. 23 was his first year. Wow. We've been doing this show a long time. Holy smokes. Wow. That time flies. The other, other writer that is winning stages, Tom Pickcock looks really good.

Let's just get the positives out of the way. It looks really good. Dominating. He positives out of the way it looks really good dominating he the first stage he won was an uphill finish today's stage stage four it's it's a really hard like summit it's like a summit finish but then they go into a almost pancake flat plateau without any descent it was him off the front like by by 28, 27 seconds, four riders, four strong riders rotating behind them. They finish. I want to say like 12 seconds behind them. So they didn't, you know, and he, he had to ride alone for six, seven K on this plateau. Yeah. Not, not easy at all. Two wins.

I believe it's the two biggest wins in Q 36.5 history. These two Alula tour stage wins i'm not gonna win the overall also so yeah having said that i think i mean i think great great start for pitcock with this new team i mean obviously everybody's happy there um i think immediately he shows his his role as the leader the team. You can see actually the team growing, you know, defending the jersey, riding around the leader. I think they've never done this, at least not at this level. You know, the first stage he won was really, really strong.

But let's not forget, you know, there was, it was a strange stage because, um, during the stage or at the end of the, at the end of the stage, all of a sudden there was a decision made that, uh, they were going to shorten the stage and take out one of the downhills, I guess, um, which they already had done before. So, uh, the race was actually decided in five, they, they neutralized the race, the stage, and then with 5k to go is okay. Go. And, um, I mean, he won that fair and square, no discussion. Um, today's stage also, um, I think, you know, when he was attacking, I said, wow, that's early. Now he went to the front when all

his teammates were done, went to the front when all his teammates were done, went to the front and basically started riding his own tempo. And there was only two riders who could follow him. And then he went away, but he kept it, you know, he kept it. Having said that, you know, we also need to look at the other side. It's always difficult to win everywhere, right? At the professional level. But this is not

a very strong field. If you look at the top 10 with all the respect for all the other contenders, but in the top 10, there's nobody in there who will be, uh, in the top five of any other world to races. If the big guns are there, right? Everybody let's be honest at this time of year, you've probably got a garage full of unused bikes. Well, you're in luck because today's partner is Bicycle, the world's largest global marketplace for pre-owned bikes. That's B-U-Y-C-Y-C-L-E dot com. With over 20,000 pre-owned road, gravel, mountain, and triathlon bikes available on the platform,

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Get those old bikes out of there. We do 30 to get 30% off seller protection, your seller protection fee when you sell a bike on Bicycle. Check out the show notes for the link and more details if you're interested. All right, back to the show. I'm shocked at how weak of a GC field it is, especially since what we've seen in years past. You would say a name that sticks out to me frank vandenbroek i

believe he did get second at a tour de france stage stage one last year very strong rider very strong rider and someone i've been intrigued by jaco alula's alan hather hatherly hatherly just came over from he's mountain he's world championship cross-country mountain bike reigning world champion came over he kind of surprised us, he's world championship cross country mountain bike, reigning world champion, came over. He kind of surprised us. You said you had no idea he wanted to be a road cyclist. I had no idea. Great pickup for Jayco.

I mean, the guy just comes into the sport. He's a little older. He's 28 years old, but he's getting results for them that, you know, they don't have many people on the roster that could get those results. So it shows kind of, I don't know how they had the inside line on him. If maybe it was his bike sponsored giant and that's how he ended up there. No, he was on Cannondale. But yeah, good, good for them. Like that. Those are good results.

Listen, if you're, if you're top of the world in mountain bike, you, you obviously have the power and the numbers that's for sure. And these are two efforts that you know it was two short efforts let's say it's a two and a half kilometer uphill violent effort two times um these are efforts that these guys can do of course but uh but still you know it is professional cycling and there's there's you know he's he's on a professional cycling team, now world tour team. He must have some depth, this guy. You know, there's other riders that are mountain bikers that would never be able to do this.

It's kind of funny to see that, you know, in the top three, there's two of the three best mountain bike riders in the world. Because let's not forget, Pitcock was world champion and is double Olympic champion mountain biking. Well, maybe part of the reason for that is the roads are terrible. I'm shocked by this. It kind of looks like the United States. It looked like on stage, the stage that was neutralized, stage two,

the climb, it looked like they ripped the road up and then just didn't repave it. It was that bad when they stripped the surface off the road. and the riders basically said, we're not going to do this. I think you, your theory was this kind of exposes ASO, who's the organizer of the race. Like clearly they had not looked at this road. Oh, I mean, you know, if you, if you look at the stage and you look the way it happens, Spencer and ASO is the, I guess they're the logistical partner of Alula in the organization of this race. So they put up all the infrastructure, they take care of the whole, all the logistics and the organization of the race, the commissairesessional because you know they all knew this road was there or at least they should have known if they would have done the recon that brings me to the point

that they didn't do the recon they just you know had somebody local map out the course and, uh, or even, even if it's the same course as, as last year, I mean, the roads may have changed. Uh, the state of the road may have changed. So they, they didn't do the recon there. Obviously, you know, ASO they're smart and there's, as a business they're in, they're in it for the money, right. They know who to associate themselves with. Uh, and, um, yeah, it was, it was with uh and um yeah it was it was

really it was it was a big circus you know having to neutralize uh a stage because they're going on a road which they should have known was in that state and then you know they neutralize this the stage during 15 or 20 kilometers and finally with 5k to go to say, okay, go now. That's not really, I mean, that's not nice. We have in the same result more or less, but still it didn't look good. It didn't look good. No green, yellow. I mean, yellow, yellow, tending to red card for ASO.

I mean, in the state of it finished on stage three, it was really surreal to watch because i mean there was no spectator so no one was going to run on the road but inside the last k there was sections with no barriers and you'd say well why is that important because there was a crash neil zekoff flies off the road and there just runs into a light post a lamppost because you either need to put pads on those or you the reason you don't see that happen very often is because normally there would be barriers inside the last k and you would hit the barriers as opposed to hitting a lamppost he did have a broken jaw lost some teeth which

sounds bad but you think of the alternatives like that's how you get really hurt oh it could have been so much worse i mean it looked really bad you looked at, if you look at the crash, uh, in repetition, you know, uh, after the race and you see how he hits the, the, I think he hits two posts. I think, um, it could have been really bad. Um, so obviously, you know, broken bones is never good, but I think he, he may praise himself lucky that this is the only damage he has. I'm curious what would happen. Like if you see like Nicholas Roach, I believe is an ASO. He works for ASO, probably in a contractor role.

He does the world feed. But when you see him like at the tour, he's rides the last, I don't know, 50 K of every stage. The guy looks like he's incredible shape. Like I wonder if he was at this race, would he go to ASO and say, Hey, I don't know if we could do this. Like this isn't safe. Or're like yeah sorry we're gonna like it doesn't also you know in aso it's what what what really surprised me it's it's that oh there's a lot there's a lot of ex-professionals there uh in the technical team you know uh whether it's for the course or for the the you know monitoring the cars or the motorbikes.

They didn't go and check out the course. It's as simple as that. Otherwise, this stretch would not have been in the course. It's impossible that you have to make that decision during the race just before you get there. Yeah. I mean, yeah, maybe they said, this isn't that good. They said, sorry, we can't root around it. They're like, yeah, maybe the riders won't protest.

That's the other thing, right, Spencer? What are the alternatives, right? That's the other thing. And it's kind of shocking to see that, you know, a country which is supposed to be one of the richest countries in the world has that kind of road surfaces. There's not a lot of people. There's not a lot of cars or at least not a lot of bikes passing there. That's for sure. i can't being from the united states i cannot throw any stones from my glass house glass house we've got some pretty bad road surfaces and we allegedly have

money moving on i well i said that about q36.5 another team another race that's happening challenge my irka not really it's like a bunch of different races that you it's like a stage race kind of but you don't have to race every race you can you can pop in and out it's almost like a training exhibition but these races are really hard if you watch them the first one in the series won by young kristin from uae second one won by marin vandenberg from ef education easy post if you watch that race they they went for that like they knew that he really marked that race as one he wanted to win i was impressed at how far out they telegraphed what they were going to do and did it florian stork from tutor pro cycling won today's edition of the race but tutor like if q36.5 is doing well tutor another second division team also doing really well their

second win of the year after mark hershey won in was it the valenciana is that the race last weekend yeah yeah but yeah i've been impressed with i mean if you look at all the let's just say pro cycling stats points they had last year on the team plus what they brought in this year the two two of the best performing teams in that metric are q36.5 and tutor and it's interesting that it's already playing out on the road like you see these teams are like automatically performing better than they did then they did last year based on the road. Like you see these teams are like automatically performing better than they did last year based on the writers. I think,

I think Tudor is going to be a completely transformed team, you know, with Hirschi and Lala Philippe, you know, to Lala Philippe being the figure he is. I mean, he's kind of also as a personality, he's a,

he's a leader of the team. We don't know how good he's going to be. You know, he's, I think he's going to perform still, although I think that the best Alaphilippe is in the past. But still, you know, he's still going to be up there and have some results. And then, of course, Hirschi was one of the best riders of the season last season.

So, I mean, I haven't seen him from close up, but I'm shocked about how tiny he is. He's so skinny. He's so little compared to if you see him in a group of three or four riders. I mean, if you compare his size to the other guys, for example, if you see him next to Morgado, it's crazy. I mean, he's like half the size but uh but yeah I mean you know he had a really good good win there in in Valenciana a really hard race at the end um again you know it's not with the biggest teams and the biggest uh the biggest rivals but still those races to win those races at the beginning is very hard i mean another thing i would like

to point out uh spencer i don't know i mean i'm pretty sure you have remarked it uh is the in every single race i've seen um whether it's in down under or in uh valenciana or mallorca i think they're in alula too and yeah they are in al um, is the behavior in the race of Astana XDS Astana. They go full gas, every single stage with three, four guys. It's like the panic mode of scoring points, scoring points, scoring points. You know, like I saw one race, uh, on Saturday in Valencia, um, where Morgado won, I think they had third, fifth and seventh or something like, you know, that that's the strategy, you know, they, they, they don't, they don't necessarily go for the win, but they want always to have three, four guys up there

and score the maximum points. Um, I don't know. I, I still think it's not going to be enough to save their spot. Um, but at least racing that way, I think they're going to guarantee their, their, their position, uh, as number one or two in the, uh, in the pro county or whatever it's the pro team category, which will give them an automatic entrance in all of the world to races in 2026, because they're not going to be world tour anymore. Yeah. It's kind of a lame way to race. Like, yeah, you're right. So they got three riders in the top 10 at that race, four in the top 15. Like, you know, if you're just looking at this, you look at the results,

you say you had a rider in second and you had a rider in sixth and seventh, maybe you should have done something differently, but they're just going for points. Obviously, it's not a bad idea because I think as you say, there's this narrative. It's like, oh, they're fighting for the world tour spot. It's not going to happen. They would need to be like the third or fourth best team in the world.

And Cofidius would have to be. It's 5,000 points. And the other teams are also... I mean, they're not going to score no points, you know, the other teams. Yeah, if they scored 5,000 and the other team scored zero, they would be promoted. But they would need to score like 15 to score

5,000 more than them. But as you say, they got to go for these top two spots. But with Lotto and Israel out, they have a good chance to do it i mean it's two door and q36.5 and you know x uh it's competition you know it's competition to be top two the edge they have i mean it is good competition actually going to be going to be something really interesting to watch this year the edge astana has is their world tour now

so they get invited to every race. Yeah. Whereas Uno, it's harder for Uno X and Q36.5 and Tudor to score points. I think how many points they're going to score at the tour and Q36.5 isn't even in there to contest it. I don't necessarily agree with that, Spencer. I mean, I don't think Astana

XDS, they're not going to score many points at the tour. You don't? Hold on. Hold on one second. They're not going to score many points at the tour you don't hold on hold on one second they're not going to score many points at the tour hold on let's just see like stage one so if you finished 10th you get more points than

if you it might be like winning a stage of hold on a second the Alula tour I closed my Alula tour it's a lot like they do wait the tour a lot yeah maybe maybe they don't even have the talent to do that but if you went in just trying to finish like in the top 15 of stages i wonder if you could get two guys in the top 15 of a lot of stages yeah yeah yeah well especially in those sprints where people are sitting up

yeah i mean that's what i would try to do. Like we're going to get ninth and 11th. Let me tell you that that's also changing completely. When I watch these races, every single little group is sprinting. Like the first group, the second group, the third group, like even for 20th place, they're sprinting. Everybody's sprinting. For their, for their little points. Yeah. There is a new trend too. Like instead of, you know know how lead out riders used to peel off and just sit up they kind of keep sprinting now i i wonder if part of that is

points and then part of that is you're just trying to be in the way as much as possible because why would you sit up so tom pickock did he got 14 points for today's win at a lula tour and then for that would be like equivalent to like 15th at a tour de france stage so it is quite advantageous to go to those grand tours on tom pickock next topic cyclocross world championships it was supposed to just be matthew vanderpoel it's this sunday february 2nd in belgium is that right france france same thing same thing i'm kidding i'm not gonna be safe to go outside now but it was supposed to just be vanderpoel wow van art made the call the audible he's coming before we talk about that why is tom pickock not going and why is he you mentioned this was in the pre-show that he said he was putting out his best five and 10 minute power ever.

This is like right now, clearly going for the classics. What calculation has he made that these other two haven't? Like, does he just want to start off on a good foot at Q36.5 or what's going on there? Dial in the road bike? First of all, he decided not to do cyclocross because he wants to focus on the spring campaign. Also, I mean, he knows that if Van der Poel is in, he can't be world champion. You know, I don't think he can beat Van Aert either

if it's like on a hard course with a lot of running and mud. So, you know, I think that's a smart decision from him. I mean, he's been already world champion. And I think that his preference is probably more towards mountain bike than cyclocross um you know I think it's just a a coming together of circumstances you know like uh frustrated finished the season frustrated was left out of Lombardy, was in great shape. So he probably started to train very early. You know, the way this happened, because, you know,

the transfer of Pitcock came relatively late, but late for the public, right? I mean, I think he knew already very, very long time that he was not going to be on Ineos. And that he was going to be most likely on Q36.5. And then, you know, the negotiations probably took a little longer, but he knew that he was leaving and that he was going to be the leader of another team. You know, being motivated, new environment, you know, straight away, getting to the training training camp showing that you're the leader um seeing that you're accepted as the leader seeing that people believe in you that they count on you i mean it's all brings this this vibe and and and i think uh this is

definitely not the best pitcock yet um but but man i mean if he can if he can stay healthy and and and not get any any crashes or bad luck, I think we're going to see a great Pitcock in the Classics. You know, when he starts off really good, again, we've said it, you know, not the biggest field, so it's not really, you can't really compare, but the fact that he said in the interview that he did already do his best five and ten minute values on training rights uh says that he's thinking very seriously about certain spring classics i mean what he came into this week with

five pro wins and he currently has seven going on eight that's like almost a 50 increase in his number of pro wins so clearly off to a good start like i yeah i just can't totally do you think ineos is annoyed like dude we tried to get you to focus on the road for years you wanted to raise cross and then you leave and you're not doing cross it's often like that spencer you know when a guy leaves a team and there's been problems and there's been frictions and then all of a sudden you see that i've seen that in my teams in the past now i say well i mean we're not keeping this guy you know it's enough he had enough chances you know and then the year after he shows up at the first race is fit like crazy you know i can think of one person that you had that experience with what the hell you shouldn't

say their name you can say it say it daryl limpey didn't he like leave your team and then he's wearing the yellow jersey at the time Daryl Impey was when he was on Radio Shack he was he was still more or less at the beginning of his career you know and but yeah I mean he obviously he obviously got

a lot better when he left yeah he got a lot better when he left Radio Shack are Wout and Van Der Poel are they hurt does this foray into the cyclocross like hurt their preparation for the

spring or is like no no they know what they're doing they really know what they're doing and they both had a very reduced program these I mean basically these races, their intensity, like interval trainings for the road season. I mean, it's sad to say for the other cyclocross cyclists,

but they're so much better than, I mean, they have a huge engine compared to the other guys, you know? I mean, the other cyclists like Van Toornhout and Iserbiet and Ronar and Swick. And I don't know who else. I mean, Thibon Nys. Thibon Nys is obviously a big engine too. But they're so much better.

There's so much, you know, it's... So, no, it doesn't hurt them at all. Wout Van Aert decided last minute that finally he does go to the World Championships. And I've been told that it's really after the race where when he finished second to mathieu van der poel um but um he had a really good feeling you know i think he had two crashes yeah he came back and uh and so you know the fact that he he felt the power i mean on the way back from the race to his home, he has decided that he wanted to give it a go at the world championship. So it's basically a

decision of the moment based on feeling. Obviously great for the race. I still think that it's very hard that van der Poel doesn't win. He was so much better than everybody else. But Van Aert, if he decided to do it, I think he thinks he might have a chance. So that I think it means that he feels strong and that he feels that his form is increasing. And you know what I mean? It's a championships, anything can happen, you know? So, um, apparently it's, it's, it's a hard circuit. It's muddy. Uh, not that it's gonna, you know, bother on the pool, but if it's muddy, it's really good for, for a while. If it's physical, as long as he doesn't make any technical mistakes, which has been the case in some of the cyclocross races until

now. Why, why is that better for wow? Is he just better riding in the mud, running in the mud? He's super strong. I mean, the guy's strong as an ox. He's a really good runner. And then also when it's really muddy and it's with power, he's sitting down in the saddle and just getting the power out. He's really good.

But again, he's up against Mathieu Van Der Poel, who's basically good, if not the best at anything um i think probably walt is probably a better runner than matthew in the mud but uh you know nowadays cyclocross there's there is running in the mud but not that much every night when i put my four-year-old to bed he's just like keeps asking me is wow gonna win on sunday i? I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how we feel about that, but he has a chance, you know, you never know. I know he's a big wild fan. So yeah, just tell him he has a chance. Did, I mean, he must think, he must think he has a chance internally or else he

wouldn't be here because I mean, what's their trap. Like what does this look like logistically for these guys? I mean, they're there already. They, what does this look like logistically for these guys? Oh, it's close. I mean, they're there already. I think they arrived yesterday. I actually saw Wout and Mathieu recon the course together today. They were having a chat on the bike. So I think they arrived yesterday, did some recon today.

But it's close. It's not far. It's in the north of france so and do you think they're both based in belgium at the moment or are they coming from spain uh this time of year walt came from walt came from belgium uh matthew i don't know if vanderpool went back to spain between the last world cup race and uh i mean logically i think he would have stayed in belgium you know it's just too much traveling you know yeah if you if you race on sunday and you try i mean it would only be three days in spain so it makes no sense

wasn't van der poel flying but i can't i can't get over this i heard he was flying back and forth from spain for every classic last year. That's a possibility. I'm exhausted thinking about that. It also depends how you fly. You know, if he has a little, if he charges a little private jet. He must have been doing that. Makes things a little easier, you know?

Yeah. And I guess if it's, if you can get that down to like 7,000 an hour, maybe you could do that flight in about an hour. Make that somewhat cost effective. No, you can't like 90 minutes, two hours. Two hours for sure. Yeah. All right. Well, I hope he keeps racing so he can stay in those private jets. Well, he just, listen, the guy just keeps getting new contracts. So he just got, he just did a contract with Richard Miller, the watch brand.

He's also driving Lamborghinis, but he's just driving them to the race as opposed to around Monaco. He drives a Lamborghini on a daily basis, but that's one of those SUV Lamborghinis. I mean, it's clearly good. It's a pretty good partnership for them because I had no idea that Lamborghini of those SUV Lamborghinis. I mean, it's clearly good. It's a pretty good partnership for them because I had no idea that Lamborghini had an SUV until he was driving it. Two questions this week, both from me. What's the podium going to be at World Championships?

Okay. I'm going to say Van der poel uh van aard and nieuwenhuis whoa no no tibo uh i think nieuwenhuis all right and then i was i was talking to dave bulsch about this recently but i'd love for you to expand on it like if I'm a pro rider right now, I race for UAE also UAE. I was going to mention this earlier. You know, what team has the most wins right now in the sport UAE? Four races, four wins already. Four wins. Yeah. And it's like, they've kind of picked up right where they've left off. Anyone that was hoping for a week season for them is not going to get it. But let's say I ride for UAE right now.

I'm, I'm young Christian. Like what's my training look like this time of year compared to when you, like, let's say mid two thousands, like how much has that changed and how has it changed? Everything has changed. You know, I think, I think mid two thousands was still, I mean, it's, it obviously had changed compared to the to the 80 but it was still you know like based on late 80s mid 90s yeah you know like lots of miles uh don't start your

intensity before you have a certain a certain number of foundation miles in the legs um this has changed everything has changed you Everything has changed. You know, you mean you, you can't even show up at a training camp nowadays when you're under trained, it's, it's, it's better you stay home and train by yourself. Um, so I mean, obviously guys like young Kristen, for example, it's clear that he has peaked towards the beginning of the season. I mean, he's already in great shape. He's done, you know, he's, he won a stage in Mallorca. Uh, he's been on the attack in some other races already. So, uh, I mean, I mean, listen, at UAE, it looks like everybody's in good shape. Uh, Morgado's flying. Um, I mean, the, the tour team probably is, is a little, I mean, I haven't seen anybody

from the tour team yet. Who's, uh, who's in competition. No. Um, I mean, I don't know if they're going to, they're probably not going to take my advice. Yeah. Like Pavel Sivakov would be a good example of someone that's not raced yet. Probably on the tour team.

But I mean, uh, listen, Sivakov is training really, really hard. I mean, I, I follow him, him on Strava. That guy's an animal when he, when he trains and he, he rides fast. He has a lot of really top performances. Uh, these guys train a lot, man, a lot, a lot, a lot, even if their goals are later down the season. I mean, he said his like off season training now is basically, he just goes out and writes 300 watts for like six to nine hours for him that zone too but that's not easy you know that's not easy even for him that's probably harder than he would have done 10 years ago oh yeah yeah yeah no it's

changed i mean and you know and reportedly the training regime we've talked about the last week you know the training regime at UAE is uh is of another level uh it's it's just uh super hard and that's why you know when you have to be a really big engine to to be able to sign for that team and then do the training you know you have to have the engine some people are just not able to do it or they can do it two three days and then they need a day off or two days off. Um, so, you know, I think, I don't think, Hey, listen, they've, they have the biggest budget or one of the biggest budgets. They, uh, they sign great writers and they train the hardest. It's not that difficult. I mean, yeah, I do tend to think that that's the case, but

maybe a stupid question. I often wondered this when, when Lance was winning a bunch of tours, why doesn't everyone just train harder? Because you can't, because you know, it takes a champion with a huge engine, uh, strong head, you know, I've had, there were years where, um, we did training camps, um, in preparation for the tour. I remember one specific year. I don't remember which year it was, but we, you know, everybody who did the tour or the 12 guys, because back in the days we had 12 guys for nine places,

we went, you know, in May and June, we went on training camps. And, uh, I think there was two or three riders that almost didn't make it to the tour because they, they trained too much because they couldn't train midlands. So then afterwards we started to split, you know, like the one, one training camp for the, the guys that had to support him, but we had to be careful, you know, like put them in cottons, cotton and, uh, you know, make sure that they didn't get injured. And then there was

basically i mean listen over over all the years i've known one guy who was able to train midlands there was only one rider who was able to do the training regime and come out better it was vlach vyacheslav ekimov was the only interesting yeah because that guy has a huge engine. Did he do every tour with him? Well, no, not every tour because he retired and then he came back. Yeah. Cause I remember him. I remember. Okay. Yeah. I kind of retired and then, and then he, uh, I actually, um, wait, uh, so 99, he was not, he was not on the team because when I, when I came on the team, when I came on the team, uh,

Ekimov had had a disagreement with the manager who was there then, and he had left the team and he went one year to a small Italian team called Amica chips. And then, and then in 2000, I hired him back. He became world, he became Olympic champion. It's crazy. He was raising for Amica chips the year before he won the world championships. Yeah. And, um, and yeah, and then, uh,

then I don't remember when he retired and then he came back after a few months. He said, I remember, I remember he called me, you know, because he retired and he was going to be the director of, uh,

a Russian team. He did some races as a director in the spring. And, um, I think somewhere March or March, or he said, yeah, you know, Johan, I think I made a mistake. You know, I, I, I shouldn't have retired. I want to race again. And, uh, well, I said, Dickie, listen, I mean, you know, I, I don't, I, I don't remember any, how did we, how did we make it work? But, uh, I said, you know what? Listen,

come to the training camp for the tour, prepare yourself for that. And he came, he showed, I mean, I remember Ekimov showed up at the training camp. He hadn't done one single race. He came to the training camp for the tour, which was end of May, beginning of June. He showed up there fit like crazy. And, um, there I just, okay. So I said, okay, you're hired. Almost won the stage on the month. Got caught like in the final of the stage on the Mont Ventoux got caught like in the final of the stage

and uh and did the tour and was amazingly strong it was just 2002 2002 I guess it was 2002 yeah yeah because uh 2002 his first race is the Dauphiné which is insane yeah wow wow that's interesting so that's the only rider that could train with Lance I mean Which is insane. Wow. Wow. That's interesting. So that's the only rider that could train with Lance. I mean, now that you mentioned it, it does kind of feel like UAE has the money to do this. So it might not be replicable, but they've just built a team out of Terminators almost.

It's just these guys, it's the biggest engines in pro cycling. And then they train them so hard, but they're the only riders that could absorb that and then get better you know one of one one guy will also if he has no bad luck spencer a guy who has a huge engine and who will benefit tremendously of the training of uae is uh florian vermeer that guy's strong very strong we'll see you'll see in the classics that guy's going to be super strong did he get second at second or third at ruby yeah second yeah yeah interesting i had forgotten about that transfer big guy too almost two meters tall 85 kilos whoa well that intro wow yeah that's that's actually kind of an under the radar pickup in the off season. Huge contract. What, what's he making?

You think? One million. One million. Holy smokes. There's no way, no way, no way for Lotto to keep him. No. What was he making at Lotto? Ah, 250, 300, I think max.

Yeah. So good time to be flooring vermiche but that speaks to you know he just it's like neil's pollitt fits this profile that they've identified as a really useful rider to have on your team yeah well johan do you have anything else to add before you head off to bed what was that i think we've covered mostly everything yes and we will be back next week i'm quite curious to see how this cyclocross world championship plays out on february 2nd um i will be rooting for wout in my household even if i find it hard to believe that he could actually win yeah okay thanks johan and we will talk again soon okay bye