THEMOVE - Liège-Bastogne-Liège 2026 Breakdown | THEMOVE

Episode Date: April 26, 2026

George Hincapie, Johan Bruyneel, and Spencer Martin break down Tadej Pogačar's win over teenage sensation Paul Seixas at Liège-Bastogne-Liège to get his third consecutive and fourth career win at the Ardennes Monument. They discuss Remco Evenepoel's decision to get into an early 50-rider group, forcing UAE to furiously chase for over 100 kilometers, if a pair of Monument podiums and Amstel win constitute a successful spring for Evenepoel, what Seixas' rapid improvement means for the future of this rivalry, and whether he should make his Grand Tour debut at the 2026 Tour. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team  

Today reminded me of the 2019 Volta Spanio, where you could, Primos Roglich wins, but you're like, ooh, this is kind of interesting from this young kid, winning three stages, getting third place. And then 12 months later, and I don't know if you guys remember, but July of the COVID year of 2020, Pagachar wins the Slovenian time trial championships. And I remember thinking, that's kind of weird. And then by the time we get to the tour of France,

he's better than Pagat or better than Roglish. So today did remind me, could see the end. I know Pagachar won, gets his fourth liege win, gets his 13th monument win. I thought I could squint and see the end of the Pagacha era, if you can believe it today. Because that ride was impressive. Not yet. Not yet, Spencer. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the move. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Brunel and George Hinkapi. We just watched Liege Best on Leage. Tadipajar wins solo for his fourth career title, 13th career monument with Paul Sikis. Coming in.

in second and Remko Evanapult coming in third. You might look at those results and say, oh, wow, didn't watch the race. That's probably what I expected. Well, it was a little bit more complicated than that because at the very beginning of the race, there's a split in the Peloton, potentially a crash breaking things up. We're not quite sure because it wasn't televised, but Remcoe Avonapole gets in the front group. You'd say breakaway, but it was a 50 rider move.

So kind of a, two pelotons. And with 200K to go, the gap is up to around four minutes. Pagachar's team, UAE, team has to do a lot of work. it back. They do catch them with 93K to go. And then they're, you know, it looks, Johan, you're going to say it's not that easy. It looked like they were on autopilot until Labrude, they knew exactly what they wanted to do. Pagotchar attacks. Paul Sikas goes in right on his wheel, perfect position, matches them. Pagotcha does not get away clean. Everybody else is dropped by a shocking amount. And they ride to the final climb where the Roshafokon, where

Pagachar finally cracks Siksaas wins with the 19-year-old Frenchman coming in second and then Evanapult winning with a dominant sprint for third, a minute and 42 seconds behind. But, Johan, what was your takeaway from this race? Well, takeaway, obviously, the favorite one, maybe a little bit, I mean, people are going to say maybe a little bit more difficult than expected in that aspect that, you know, for once he did not get clear solo on his attack on the Laredud. Everybody knows that Laredud is the crucial climb where the big selection is made. It's funny actually because it's actually not the longest climb.

It's not the hardest climb, but it's still at a crucial point. And so Bogaatja went full gas. The time three minutes 45 is the record. I think they went 13 seconds faster than the best time. Also, by the Pagachar, I think was the first guy to go sub four minutes in the Strava era. And then they broke it by 13 seconds. Yeah.

So, you know, that shows that Pogaccia went full gas and Paul Sechus was able to follow. I think, I think that's the takeaway of today for me is that this young kid, Paul Seixas, really has what it takes. Ultimately got dropped. But, but, you know, I mean, it's the first time since a very, very long time that we see somebody following Bogachar I mean we could say

okay Pitcock followed him on the pojo and on Chippresa but you know you can't compare you know these climbs you can

drafting is important on a lot of dudes you have to have the power and the legs and Cajas followed him so that's very promising for the future that's my takeaway

I mean otherwise you know as expected Pugachar won his now was it a fort fort leis baston leash i think four times so he's one one win away from eddie merck's record so he's getting closer to eddie merx with with every single race he's winning also third monument in a season uh he already did that once edy merks is the only other writer who won three monuments in one season uh in and during i mean i think he did it four or five times nobody

ever won four monuments in a season. So, you know, having in mind that Lombardy is still on the, on the menu, you know, if everything goes okay and Pogacar races Lombardy, he might be the first one ever to win four monuments in one season. George, what was your takeaway from the race? My takeaway, well, waking up, seeing that there was a 50-man breakaway, which apparently from the post-stage interview is like, Renco just sort of found himself there. and look, bracing is so wildly,

wildly aggressive these days. Like, if you find yourself in a split of 50 guys, when you didn't even really try to be there, like you kind of have to stay there and just play the card. It's like,

I know we were talking about in the pre-meeting, the pre-show meetings that, like, what was he doing? Why was in the break? But he actually just found himself there and it's like, okay, now I'm on the offense.

Everybody else is on the defense trying to catch back up. He did the right thing. He had to play that card. Secondly, really interesting to see Sakeshast like, okay, you can see the guy climbing

with the best in the world, dropping the best in the world. But we're talking about going on Poca Char's wheel 220 kilometers into a race. This is completely different than 140K or 150K, which what we see in stage races these days. This is a monument, 220K in, 40K to go

in a 260 kilometer day. Like, that is a huge indication of how incredibly talented this kid is. And yes, he ended up ultimately getting dropped, but he made that selection with Pochart, which we haven't really seen that at all in the last several years that anybody can stay with Pogachara on the cold of lara r do so that was really interesting to see him go and the top three favorites finished first

second and third so kind of predictable in that sense but the way they got there was unexpected in some ways as well yeah i mean it's we'll talk about paus success a little bit later but that second place is one of the most impressive rides i've ever seen for a 19 year old to get not only get a podium at a monument but match Pagachar but we were trying to tally up the riders that have matched him when he attacks. It's a small, small list. You said Johan Pitcock, San Ramo this year. That's not really even Pagotcha's terrain.

Vanderpull last year, the year, sorry, the last year at San Remo, Van Ard at Rubet, Van Ard in Paris, not even really Pagachar's terrain. I mean, really the last time, if you go back, it's Flanders, 2022. Matthew Vanderpult, that's not even really Pagachar's terrain, though. You'd probably have to go back to 2021, liege best on liege. but he couldn't get away and had to win in the sprint if you can imagine such an indignity happening now but this guy getting second after that is it is unbelievable especially the speeds they're going up laver do that it's it actually reminded me today reminded me of the 2019

vultos spagna where you could primos roglich wins but you're like oh this is kind of interesting from this young kid winning three stages getting third place and then 12 months later and And then I don't if you guys remember, but July of the COVID year of 2020, Pagachar wins the Slovenian time trial championships. And I remember thinking, that's kind of weird. And then by the time we get to the tour of France, he's better than Pagat or better than Roglish. So today did remind me I could see the end. I know Pagatjar won, gets his fourth liege win, gets his 13th monument win.

I thought I could squint and see the end of the Pagachar era, if you can believe it today. because that ride was that impressive. Not yet. Not yet, Spencer. Not yet. You know, I mean, obviously, listen, Seychas is the real deal, as we say. You know, he's extremely talented, extremely confident also. And you can really see that Sechast knows what he's doing.

He doesn't want to burn any steps. You know, that's also the reason because, you know, I've heard some, some commentaries saying and criticizing, why is he collaborating? You know? Yeah. On Laredud, I can guarantee you, Seizas, knew already he was not going to win. He already was 100% he was not going to win. He was extremely happy to be there.

And from that moment on, what are you going to do? You know, you just collaborate. I mean, collaborating, whenever he, whenever Pogacar slowed down, he pulled a bit. I mean, and also Pogacar knew already then, okay, you know, this guy's on the limit. You know, he's pulling, but there's not much left. Today was a clear example of, you know, an upcoming huge talent being there, but then basically being exfixated. How do you say that?

Yeah, exfixing. I can't say it. Exfixing. He couldn't breathe. He couldn't breathe. He was out of breath. Explicated by Pugacchar after, I would say, what was it? after 247 kilometers.

That's when Pugacier placed his attack on La Roche of Foucault. And that's something that Seychas has never done. You know, I mean, yes, he did the World Championships. He did Lombardy, but he was never in this position that he had to stay with the favorite. You know, I mean, you could clearly see. I mean, one of the big highlights also for me was this, this acceleration of Pugacar, Seychas, following. and then this incredible huge gap with the third and the fourth and the fifth on Laududadou,

I mean, it was unbelievable. How big of the gap these guys had already. So from that moment on, it was game over. That's how much better these two guys were than everybody else. But then, you know, when really everything comes, you know, it's for real on La Roche of Vaucon. Porcard just knew that he was slowly, slowly killing him and, you know, accelerated three times.

The third time he found this, you know, flow, I would say, you know, he was on the pedals. And then he basically just in the saddle just rode away from him. And that was an explosion of, I mean, explosion. I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, in less than a kilometer, he took 30 seconds on, on Seychas. And, you know, hats off to Seixas that he was able to recover a little bit and still maintain that second place. Yeah. And as you say, did get a little bit of heat for close. collaborating. He did not hesitate if you noticed after Labrude. In some ways, it kind of helped

Pagachar. I went through his splits last year and he had, you know, like a 12 second gap at the top of Labrude. This year, it might as well have been five miles. Oh, my Lord. They were so far ahead of the chase group by the top. And then he has a guy coming to work with him. He did in his interview. Pagachar said, I thought I might have to outsprin him. That's how serious this guy was writing. But as you say, Johan, I think if you gave him true serum, he would, he would say. say he knew he could drop him on the last climb. But I would defend his decision to work because you're going to get at worst a second place at a monument as a 19-year-old.

And there's nothing good for you behind. If he sits on, I mean, I guess in theory he could have sat on, Pagatra pulls him to the final climb, probably still drops him, though, right? I don't think it changes the outcome at all. No, I agree. And also, let's not forget, I mean, you guys said the race was 44 kilometers. hour and we saw already before the cold of la rad do the peloton was small i mean it was what 50 60 guys like and that was just guys just getting peeled off from um seebook pulling for like 70k one guy and a hundred

guys just can't even hold the wheel so it just is an indication of how fast they were actually going before they actually hit the climb and that's why at the top of cold of rado these guys had 30 seconds like it it was pretty much dead men walking after that and even though there was a pretty strong group behind of, you know, Remko and a lot of strong guys, they were just kind of all, all their matches were gone and they were just kind of crawling to the finish land, so to speak. Yeah, I mean, 44.4 kilometers average, you know, the, the previous record was last year was 41.9 kilometers per hour average.

Automatically, I mean, if you look at the elevation, I mean, this is a big Tour de France mountain stage elevation-wise, 4,100 meters. 44.4 kilometers that's insane so obviously there's not going to be much fighting for position everybody's basically dead when they get to Laudadud there was a small group already

obviously all these guys that were in that 50 60 man breakaway got real back and got dropped already and then there was so much work to be done in the Peloton so yeah I mean at those speeds man I mean Yeah, 44 kilometers average in Liesbaston-Liesch.

I would like to go back and see what the speeds were, like 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and then in the 90s and the 80s, it's probably like 36, 37 kilometers average. That's how much faster everything got. Yeah, like in 2017, so almost 10 years ago, 40 kilometers an hour. So that's a huge bump in 10 years. and why was the race so fast?

Because there was a huge breakaway up front with a big favorite in it, Remko Ebenopold. You know what, Spencer? I mean, with or without Remko, I don't think that actually changes a lot. George, you can contradict me if I'm wrong. But, you know, if there's a big group, it doesn't really matter who's in there.

I mean, you can never let a big group go far away. Obviously, you know, UAE, they got caught out. Look, the proof is they had a guy in there, Dominovac, was. in there without trying to be in there. He just happened to be, you know, in those positions. But, I mean, even, I mean, you could say, okay, Ramco was in there, but, you know, there's other riders in there.

Bernal was in there. There was other riders who can go uphill. You know, if you can't let that group take, I mean, especially not in a one-day race. In stage races, it's different, you know, because there's still time to to recuperate in other stages. But in a one-day race, I mean, that's insane. 50 riders let them go up the road. I mean, luckily, I think, I mean, I think UAE was lucky to have DeKatlon help.

And it also shows you how strong UAE is because they did the majority of the work with two riders, you know, with Hedegholtz and this, I always forget his name. Stangen, Stangen or? Yeah, like Stangen. Langen, Stangen, I don't have something. He should have pulled up. I mean, yeah, he's good. Strong writer. So three riders, three riders.

Three riders controlled that breakaway. That is crazy. Think about it. Yeah, you're never going to get 50 guys to work together all in the same goals. But at the same time, they had to fight for position less. So it was just as hard for the guys in the breakaway once that was established as the guys in the back because they had to pull pretty hard to keep that gap within, I think they got up to four minutes. But then we saw the race was, the race was on.

and whether you're in the Peloton at that point or in the breakaway, like you're still working super hard either way. Yeah, yeah. Well, we hear it all the time. Maybe we just hear it from me, saying they've got to come up with different strategies. Maybe try to get in the early breakaway. That's the only way to beat Pagachar.

And today we got to see exactly what happens. It's not, maybe not the best idea in practice because it just makes the race, you have 50 riders up the road, race is really fast. Pagotcha catches on. It's so fast no one can attack. It irons out all the potential problems.

And then everyone's fatigued. So when he attacks, he drops them. Let's just say it, or is there any scenario, let's say, RIMCO is up the road like he was today. He's, he's, I saw photos of him taking polls. I saw him have his team up there. Nico Dens was taking big polls. Are you really realistically going to stay away? Is that a waste of energy?

I don't think so. I don't think, I mean, if you saw pictures of him taking pools, it will have been very short, maybe at the beginning to get it rolling. But then you get an overview of who's there. Obviously, Nico Dens, what else is he going to do in Liesbaston-Liesch? If he's in the break. Are you burning political capital, though? Burning what? I don't know if you're UAE and then you have, there's a split in the Peloton because of a crash.

and then Red Bulls up front pulling. Is you a happy feeling good about that right now? Probably not, right? I mean, I don't know. First of all, I don't know if it was because of a crash, but it does happen that all of a sudden there's a huge group. Nobody knows exactly what happened, but you look up and say, oh, wow, that's huge.

The Peloton has just escaped. Yeah. But listen, it's part of racing. I think Remko did what he had to do once he was in there. I'm convinced he didn't spend any more energy in that break than if he would have been in the peloton. As George said, you're relaxed. You don't have to fight for position. You have a teammate that will keep it going.

Plus, there are other teams that keep it going. Ineos had a guy pulling for Bernal and other teams had several riders in there. So I think Remko had a really an armchair ride in that group. I'm pretty, I mean, okay, yes, he got dropped on. a dude, but for me, the reason why he got dropped is not because he was in that breakaway. For sure not. Why did he get dropped, do you think? Because he didn't have the legs to go on the climb. And he didn't have the legs to sit behind six us and pagachar going into the climb. Well, I mean, he was six or seven places down. I mean, you know, if he would have had

the legs, he would have moved up. If he would have had the legs, he would have straight away moved up. You could see already. Okay, he was there. There was room to, move up. You know, a lot of dudes have no secrets. If it's in, so, you know, if, if you're good, you're, you're moving up and you try to be in say excesses wheel. He just didn't have it. I mean, he had to let go. I, just if I'm going to be critical for the sake of being critical, I would say, if I was going to give a note, I'd say maybe a little less energy blowing that gap up to four minutes and maybe we just focus on sitting behind Baguagia going into Labrado. No. No. Wouldn't have changed anything. I think, I think, I think,

I think the result, the third place of Remko is an incredibly good result for him compared to how he was today. There was a lot of riders on the uphills who were better than Ramco. That's, Lardardud. Lardud is the proof. It's, you know, he was 15th on Ladaud. So, you know, there was a lot of riders better. So third place for him is a really good result. And you think that's a physical limitation? The climbing, it's not a mental limit.

Because he looks strong sometimes. Like at the end of that race, he looks so strong. Yeah. Yeah. But I haven't seen him do anything spectacular on any of the climes. You know, on Code de Forge, he was on the limit on La Rocheau-Faucon. He was also not in the front in that pursuing group. So he is explosive.

We know we all know he worked on a sprint, on his explosivity, and that sprint was impressive. You know, let's not forget, he still has a huge engine. I mean, after 260K, a guy like that, if he's there, he's going to be better. But, you know, on the climbs today, at least, he didn't have it. So do you think just physically he doesn't have the climbing engine that the other top one-day guys do? Well, it's hard to compare. I think comparing him to Pogachar and Seixos right now, probably not.

but you know maybe he had a bad moment there a cold they'll ever do I mean he can climb with we've seen him win a grand tour he hasn't done that sort of climbing lately but you know we can't count the guy out

he still got third place still won landfill goal race last weekend yeah all in all I think he's pretty pretty happy with the way his classics have gone up until now and of course he's won Leiazbest only as two times

and those two times that he's won he rode away from the peloton so there's a bit difference in level in terms of between him and Pogachar now saves us. But, I mean, you can't really criticize the guy too much. He still had an incredible last week with winning M, still and getting third today.

I just can't quite square because, as you say, you won a grand tour so we know he can do it. I mean, we should say, though, the problem with all of this, like I'm going back to 2022, he wins actually in exactly the same spot that Pagotcha won today, rode away with 14K to go. The speeds are a fraction. Like Pagachar in 2020,

in 2020, he went up Labrudeau in four and a half minutes. Today he went up almost in three and a half minutes. So the speeds are a lot higher. So it could be that he was climbing when speeds were slower, was climbing better. But as you say, George, he won Amstall last year. He looked pretty good on the climbs there. That's what I can't quite square is,

why does he look so unstoppable at times and then seem to struggle specifically with climbing? Like, has this in bad moments. We're talking here about Remko, as if it's a failure. I mean, listen, let's not forget. I mean, this, you know, he's racing against these two. Okay, Seychas is now new into the game.

But it's clear that, obviously, uphill, he's already. And he's going to be better than Rencoe. There's no doubt and there's no question about that. But let's not forget, you know, he got third in Flanders. He got, he won Amstall Gold race and he just got third in Liesch. It's not bad, you know. I mean, it's not bad. It's definitely not bad, but it's not, I don't.

if you told Red Bull, you're going to pay this guy, the money you're going to pay him, and these are the results. Andy's going to look totally lost as a stage racer. Do you think they would sign up for that? Well, I agree with Johan.

He won Amsel. And just think about mentally, too. This guy is an Olympic champion. He's one league's best on the last two times. The fact that he still stayed there fighting for third place, like mentally on Cold Alibradu, he couldn't go with the best two guys. So then a lot of guys would just say,

fuck it, I'm done. Like, my day is always. over. I'm not going to win. But he kept fighting, which to me shows how strong he is mentally because he is one of the best guys in the world. He had two guys are riding away from him, making him look like he can't go uphill, but he still stayed there fighting away. You know, you saw him really aggressive in the group too, yelling at guys to try to get people moving. I mean, the guy's a fighter. And, you know, the fact that he still hung in there and got third place, like really convincingly in that sprint, I got to say chapeau to him, even though I'm sure he wanted to win, but still

a very impressive week of racing for him. I mean, he wanted to win, but, you know, deep inside, George, he knows that if there's nothing that, if nothing happens to Pulaccha, that he can't win. Of course, there's, there are race circumstances. I mean, he was in one of those, you know, he was in that break. So, I mean, let's not be to, I mean, I'm always, I'm always accused of being a Remco defender because, you know, I have a preference for Belgian riders. but he's you know isn't he he he is a big engine uh the expectations are i think super high um yeah i mean

in the last six years now there's you know he won twice and pogacha won four times liege yes the two times that he won't progacha wasn't there but still nobody else won except him and people got char. Diaz-Baston-Liesh. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it is good.

I would just say my issue with Remco is a, like the George, the yelling at people. Like, we got to stop this. Okay. They're not,

like, be up the road. If you want people, don't, they're not going to work with you, all right? He's got to stop yelling at people in groups.

I can see. I mean, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're,

you're feeling like you buddy, buddy, buddy with people. Like, you get frustrated. Like, your, your heart rates at 200 like you do think that are outside of your personality at times i mean this is like these guys are on zero they had like no matches left and they're in survival mode so i don't i know the yelling might not look great on tv but it's just it's that's what happens in this

and races five and a half hours into such a hard race and also also george you know and spencer you know this yelling thing it happens all the time everybody does it this pagacha everybody gotcha is not doing it he's just dropping everybody Pulagatja doesn't have to yell because nobody can follow him. But, you know, not everybody's gotcha, but it happens all the time. The thing is, you know, when Remko's on front, the cameras are focused on him. And yes, he does have this attitude of, okay, being frustrated, but I can understand. I mean, it doesn't look great on TV because, you know, he's in the picture all the time, right?

But it happens all the time, man. It's not just Remko. everybody yells at everybody. Once they're racing, there are no friends. Okay. So great result. Great result. Third place is great.

Here's the thing I take issue with. These quotes yesterday, I don't like them at all. He says, I've already won here twice. Sexos, he's only 19. It's 260K.

Taday and I have more endurance for races. I wouldn't be surprised if he struggles. Why is he saying that? Why is it? There's no need to say that about a competitor. who then swacks him. You know, he's a confident guy, and it's also one of his strengths. You know, he never gives up.

Look, today is the proof. He never gives up. Well, he gave up last year at Leage, remember? Just pulled over. Well, he yesterday, last year he was, he was, he was a lot worse than this year. But, but, but anyway, Spencer, you're not, you're not a big Remko fan. I just, the behavior is not. It totally impressed me the last two days.

I thought those quotes were like, it's fun. I guess it's fun, but Seychas is the, right? real deal. Like, I don't know. It's just how wrong with me. I really didn't sit well with me. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it was clear that if there was one, one rider who was maybe going to be able to follow Pugacchar, it was going to be Paul Sexas. Nobody else. Nobody else. Remko has a point. I mean, we have not seen Sexas that much after 200 kilometers. I mean, it's a completely different ballgame from 200k to 260K. Like, there's people that can hang with the best in the world up until 200k.

but once you get that other 60K, it's a completely different ballgame. And Texas doesn't have that much history after 200 kilometers. So he did have a point in that sense. He probably didn't have to say it. But after today, we know the answer, George. We know the answer. I mean, but I think we all had that question. Like, hey, he was he going to be able to do this?

Yeah, no. I had that question too. The proof is, but basically, and there you see that, in my opinion, it could come back to the race and to Pugachar. You know, Pugachar felt it already. You know, they had, so they attacked on the, a lot of dudes. Seychas collaborated a bit with, with, with, with, uh, with Pogacar and by the bottom of La Roche-Foucon, they had one and a half minute, right.

And there, Pogacar knew because, you know, without any doubt, I mean, they didn't, they didn't start the incline yet yet. And Pogacchar went already. He knew that he was going to just drag him and asphyxiate him. And I want to have it right. asphyxated. And yeah, I mean, it was, it was nice to see. I mean, Sejahas tried and tried and tried.

I mean, you could see at his body language, you know, that Bogachar in his usual style standing up, you know, three accelerations. And then Sechast started to really work the bike. His facial expression got worse and worse. And all of a sudden, you know, the elastic broke. And that's where, for the moment, Bogachar still has an advantage over a young guy, 19-year-old success with that endurance and those to be used those efforts above 220, 230 kilometers.

Yeah, and as a fan, we want to see those guys finish the race together and go, go toe-to-to-to in a sprint. I mean, probably Pogatross still would have won, but as a team and as a country of France, I like, we just won Fletchful Loan and we got second place in Lies. I mean, you're coming up with an incredible week for a 19-year-old kid. I mean, they should be happy with their performance. Yeah. And Seychas was also happy. If you listen to his interview, he's happy, he's proud, he's satisfied. You know, what a mature guy, right? In those interviews, like the way he talks, always straight away thanking his team.

That's, you know, the first thing he says, it's always my team, my team. And, I mean, with the pressure on the shoulders of that kid, man, and being, you know, imagine the stress and the nerves to be there at the bottom of La Rodot and say, okay, everybody expects me to show that I can stay with. Pogacan and he does it man I mean that's that's nerve-wracking especially when you're at 180 190 heartbeat yeah not only that people have discounted the fact that before the cold that are due there's the best teams in the world visma all the teams lined up I mean that's a super stressful downhill leading into that the position battle is massive and for a 19 year old kid just being so composed and fighting for Pocatechard's wheel getting Poked charge wheel looks easy on TV.

I can guarantee you that is far from easy. And he's there with no problem. Super impressive. I think, I mean, I would have to go back, but I saw images of, especially when Bogacha attacked, which is also incredible, George. You've done code de laudadut. By the way, it seems that the Americans, the American writers, they call Cote de la Rude, the Cote the later dude.

Later dude. Later dude, yeah, probably. Yeah. But Pogacha was small chain ring. Seychas did it on the big chain ring. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, obviously, we don't know. That's 10% average. That's, yeah. Yeah. I mean, at least when the attack, when Pogacar attacked first, he was on the big chain. I don't know if he shifted later on. But yeah, I mean.

It's kind of an interesting idea, actually. Like, if you're worried about being able to get over the, like, is Pagotcha just going to spin away from you. And like, I don't know, maybe that would, maybe at a mechanical, we don't know, but maybe that wasn't an idea they had. But, Johan, I was going to mention that, too, about the poise. Like, I don't, same with a flush, alone, the nerves. Can you guys, I don't think any of us have ever won flush wallone, but I would be so nervous

going into the bottom of that, knowing that you have to be in good position. I don't think he gets nervous. I don't think any of this phases them. And that's the most impressive thing to me. No, he's super confident. I think I said it, you know, in our show of flesh wallone. I saw these images, you know, the team images of him in the car, in the team car after the race being on the phone and going through step by step that last kilometer of the Mueur de Witte. This guy is, this guy knows what he's doing, man.

He's not, he's absolutely not blown away. He has complete confidence in his performances. He knows what he can do. Yeah. Let's take a quick break and then I have some questions for you guys about Mr. Sexos and the Tour de Front. and if you think you should go. But we'll be right back. Okay, we're back.

Before we get into Paul's success, do you guys know the last time, how many years it's been since Remko Evanapole has beaten Taday Pagacha in a one-day race that Pagatra has finished? Last year, Amstel goal race. I didn't beat him. Nope.

I thought you got second. No, we got third. The got third. It was close, though. It's been four years. So, arguably on the same level. They were on the same level last year at Amstel,

race. Which was it? It's actually, do you guys want to guess which race it was? It's obvious once you know it, which is obvious. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's liege when when Bogacha crashed, no? Well, he didn't finish. So a race that he's finished, they're both finished. Okay. No, I don't know. World Championships 22, the forgotten world championships. When Remko won. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. In Wallengong, where yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't have Pagachachar 2.0 yet. We didn't. didn't know what he was capable of. But that speaks to your point, Johann, that like just, just digesting that fact, then you'd say, yeah, these are very good results because you can't expect him to beat

him because he's not beating him. So it was unfair expectation to think he's going to win these races, probably. George, you have a writer in your household about this age. Would you send 19-year-old Paul Sikz to the tutor fronts? yeah i think i think i would be seeing like the trend these guys are winning the tour younger and younger this guy is he's he's got such a strong foundation that 19 years old is not what 19 years old was 10 years ago i mean there's so much more advanced and developed and know their bodies much more than than uh the kids did 10 years ago that i think if he wants to go and his team is

is in need of him to go I would send him Johan well I think they're going to announce it tomorrow whether he goes or not I think I think the answer is he's going to go I think the team wants it I think he wants it

me personally I would not send him I would give him some time prepare a fully fully fully team at his service quality team for the Vuelta okay you know this year may be also I mean because apparently Pugacha is going to the world.

I'm just going to say what if Pagacha goes to the Vulta. It doesn't really matter Spencer. It doesn't really matter. Why is the Valta better than the tour for it's a three weeks? He's never done a three week stage race. He needs to discover that. But can you not do that at the tour versus the Vulta? You don't go to tour to experiment man.

But but especially as a French phenom. Yeah. I mean yeah that is a real concern. The thing, yeah, but okay, the thing is and you know, we. We're just judging from the outside. You know, they know better and he knows better how he can handle the pressure. And it looks like he can handle it pretty well. But the tour is a different game.

You know, the tour, everything's magnified times 10 compared to anything else. And, you know, three weeks in the tour is not three weeks at the Velt or not three weeks at the Gero. In the tour, there is no time to recover, especially in today's cycling. It's everyday, a classic. It's everyday monument almost. And so if I would be his manager or advisor, I would advise him to do the Vuelta first or the Giro, even next year the Giro. That could also be an option. The thing is, you know, he's French.

He kind of has to go. I think the team, but especially the people, the media, they want him at the tour. And he will be at the tour. I'm pretty confident. I personally think it would be better if he does another three weeks. stage race first. I guess you could have a simple rule, though. If you can win it, you got to go.

And he could win it. No, he can't win it. But that's not true. It's not true. Let's say something happens to Bagachar and Jonas. Who's going to beat him? Jonas Wingergaard is going to beat him. Well, no, no.

Let's say Jonas has a crash at the zero, which does happen all the time. But that's like, these are not insane scenarios, you know? Yeah, okay. But if Jonas and today are at the top of their game, Saksas can get third at the best, which would be incredible. It's pretty good. Incredible. It's not bad.

Which basically would prove that I'm wrong. But I think the easier way is to do another three-week stage race first. But that's not going to happen. He's going to go to the tour. Well, you answered my next question. My next question is going to be, is anyone want to change their opinion on who the second best? racer against pagachers right now.

You still think it's Jonas? And three-week stage races? Absolutely. George? Yeah, I would agree with that. And then here's my next question on that. There's all this talk of, can he handle three weeks? I mean, if you go through the history, actually long one-day races are harder for young riders to handle than three-week stage races.

Like, think of Egan Bernal. Goes to the tour. Does it want? Says, yeah, I think I got this and then wins it. I could see Paul's success doing the same thing. But who's the best rider you can think of that looked this good? And then as a stage racer in one week and one days and just totally laid an egg at a grand tour. Can you guys think of anybody?

My point being, usually if you're this good, you're going to, like even Remcoe Ovenable, he's won a three-week race, you know? Like usually if you're this good in this type of racing, you're pretty good in grand tours. Yeah, I mean, Remco has been third at the Tour de France also. So you can't say that he can't race three weeks. Yeah, he can clearly ride three weeks. Yeah. Yeah, no, listen, you have a point.

You have a point. Listen, there is no question, Spencer, that post-exas is going to be a Tour de France rider. There is no question about that. My point is just, you know, give him some more time and let him do another big stage race first. was it a bummer that Jonas Finnegard was not here I thought it was a bit of a bummer I don't think so

I think I think he's clear with his goals that his goals are the Giro and the tour so he's all in for that they got a plan going and then also George you know I've said it already before you know you can't demand that of Jonas because Jonas does not have the mentality

of these one-day races he just doesn't he just is not motivated He knows that, you know, if he has a great day, maybe he can be. He's never, he's never been there. But, you know, there's many other incredible riders who have never done that. For example, I mean, two of the big, two of the biggest, the best Tour de France riders, I mean, it's not recently anymore, but anyways, relatively recent.

Chris Frum and Alabama, de Contador. But do I remember? Never, never, ever. ever on the podium and any none none but am i crazier was contador not at these races trying to win them am i making that he's right he's right he's right he's right he's done lea he's he was he never managed to win or never he was oddly very bad at them not like is that just a mentality thing i can't quite figure that out from the outside i mean it could be a motivation thing too like if yonnas did liege today and he got a podium does it change his career one bit no

It doesn't. So these days you have to be super motivated to, one, take huge risk and two, put it all on the line for a one day race. And if your head's not in it, you're not going to perform to your best anyway. So I would say it's a matter of motivation for sure. You think it's just motivation mentality, Johan, for guys like Contador and Frum and Jonas? I don't think, you know, there is also something to one day races, you know, compared to riders who are just stage racers.

You have guys who just need that effort day after day after day, which is completely different. I mean, on a one day race, you just have to be super good on that day and nothing can fail. But usually the big stage racers, like, for example, Contador and Frum, their strength was the recovery. They recovered just much better.

And that's how they got out on top after a week. When everybody started to fade, they stay at the same level. I think it's a physical thing also. I've seen riders, you know, when I was a cyclist and then when I was a DS who were incredibly good at one-day races and in state race. And even in, even in Liesbaston-Liesch and in state races, for example, they were never there. I mean, there's many winners of Liesbaston-Liesch who, you know, back in the days,

you know, nowadays it's different. but let's for example look I think he actually wanted twice Paolo Bettini he was incredible on one day race I mean sometimes and as far as I remember never top 10 in a in a in a ground tour never yeah um you know Bartley a lot of guys like that yeah I mean that's partially why it's such a good race like I'm just picking a random five-year stretch so like 2005 vinikurov the next year Valverde de Luca Valverde Schleck Vinikurov those are are all grand tour winners unless I'm forgetting something. At the end of the next year,

Philippe Jalbert, you know, like, and then 2014, Simon Garen. So you do get kind of get this mixed bag of riders. It's super interesting. I think that's why it's a great race. A couple shoutouts before we go, before I forget. So fourth place, just you got fourth, Johann. This guy,

Oh, he keeps an eye on. Yeah. The guy that you, yeah, he got fifth in Amstel. Yeah. And, and, uh, and fourth now. I mean, first year, full-time pro. on the road was combining it with, I mean, majority sacrocross rider. And then he did the tour, I think, because they ran, they were short on riders and did an

incredible tour. But man, Fort Nias, Baston Le Hes. That's some result. It's really impressive, especially since you told us last week, it was his first year, focusing on the road. And then Igan Bernal fifth, pretty good result for Bernal coming off a tour of the Alps where he looked pretty good. And he's going to the Giro de Tadio.

Yeah. Yeah. So what do we think about that? I mean, that's one of the better results we've seen from him, like in the Bernal post-crash era. And I think also, you know, what speaks for the form of Bernal, I mean, I don't know if he's going to be able to fight for the win. Obviously, against Jonas, I don't think so. But, you know, I mean, to finish fifth for him in a sprint, in the other day in one of the stages in two of the Alps, he finished third in a sprint. that means you're in good shape. You know, like, you know, a guy like Bernal mixing it up with the sprint, that means that he has something left in the legs at the end of the stage. So it's really promising for the Gero.

Yeah, I agree. And Bernal is like one of those guys that Johan was just mentioned, not your typical one-day racer. I mean, he's like a total state racer. So we saw he just finished toward the Alps two days ago. I mean, recovered well from that in fifth place in Lees, but still he is. I think he's got to be one of the top favors for podium at the Giro.

You don't see that as much anymore, like you mentioned in Frum and Cotador, a lot like Bernal, as you say, George Nett. You wouldn't really think of him as a one-day racer. He's very good at one-day racing, though. He actually gets quite a few good results. Another guy, I don't know if you noticed him, Johan. We were just talking about him privately. Jai Hindley looked very good in that chase group. Also going to this year to tell you, someone to keep an eye on.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, those guys are, Jay Hindley did not do two of the Alps, no? No, he was, I didn't see him there. No. So he must have been preparing differently, but definitely ready for me. He's always pretty good at the Giro. Yeah. That's like something I would say pretty good.

He did win it. So that's not too bad. Second and first. Yeah. And he got quietly, he got fourth at the world to last year. I'm quite curious to see what he does at this year to tie you this year. But do you guys have anything else before we take off? Yes.

Let's not forget about Liesbaston Lilliers. women, a demonstration of Demi Volering, a la Pogacar. She just took off on La Rodot. Same gap. Nobody could follow. Everybody was trying and just finished it with one and a half minute. Impressive, impressive performance. Second, Pekiteyzer again, second time.

She's second in this race. Third, Cassia Nubadoma, so the expected strong women. and then fourth Anabondel Breggen, who I think has won this race already before. I know she won Flesh for a lone seven years in a row before her retirement, but is now back on an incredible level. Is this the best spring of Volerain's career in terms of wins? I'm just trying to think about that, probably, right? No doubt about it, yeah.

She wins opening weekend, Flanders, Flesh, lia. The only one she doesn't win was Amstel. Yeah. kind of a bit of a biff there on the breakaway. I mean, 2023, she was very good. She wins Amstel Fleshlyege. But she had, I mean,

2024, she didn't win a single one-day race. And then she didn't win a single classic in 2025. So it's kind of like a return to and exceeding like her best results ever in these spring one-day races. So extremely extremely dominant. And her team is also, I mean, it's the best team. She has the best team. There's no doubt about that. Which wasn't the best team when she went there.

kind of interestingly. And now they're doing amazing. It came a long way, yeah. Yeah. Anything else, George? No, it was a great race, great race to watch for sure. Who was the top American? Did we have George on American watch at this race?

I didn't see him in the race. We lost Jorgensen last week, so he probably would have been up there in the top 10. But no, I don't think they had a pencilman for the win. They all came to the Laradutte and they said, called the later dude later dude there actually was one American Larry Warbuss

working for Tudor Pro Cycling but yeah well let's just assume Mateo would have won congrats Mateo on your theoretical liege already already already back on the bike by the way after his crash and

bone fracture in Amstall already I saw the images of he's already back on the home trainer and when do we think he comes back to racing you think it's just all Dofine tour now? I mean, yeah, a dofine or tour the Swiss or something.

Yeah. Well, Paget, this is kind of crazy to think about. I'm exhausted just thinking about it. So in two days' time, Tatea Pukhutra races again at the Tour of Romandy. Tour of Romandy, yeah. Why is he doing that? Just because he's not won it before and he wants to win it? He does tour the Romani and Tour of Switzerland for a reason.

It's two races he hasn't won yet. The guy's on a mission, man. The guy's on a mission. And he just click, click, you know, like every, every check, check, check, whatever he hasn't won. Pretty crazy. I wrote this down. I don't know if I said this earlier. But last, like major one-day races being Olympics or Olympics World Championships and monuments.

And his last 14 starts, he has 14 podiums and 10 wins. So, you know, I can go back and count that for Pagotcha later. Or Merck's for later today. I don't think anyone's ever done that. That's pretty unbelievable. He did five races this year, Spencer, five one-day races, one-four and one second. Four times, he won. So he won Strada Bianca, Milan Saint-Rémo, Dura Flanders, second in Roubae, and first in the edge.

I mean, it's pretty, it's unbelievable. He's only raised monuments plus Strata. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. Don't try that at home. Don't get the wrong idea, kids. It's not, doesn't work for you, okay?

It's only Bagotcha can do that. I think, I think the day we saw definitely, I mean, you know, of course, everybody's super excited and enthusiastic about false success, and we should be. But at the same time, I think we saw a Pugachar who is still, I would say, better than last year. The way today he rode away, man, I mean, he has this ability to ride away in the saddle. I mean, that acceleration was just impressive. When you saw the images from behind Pugatjaar disappeared in the distance, like in no time, I was crazy. that was crazy in the saddle and what's crazy about that yohan i agree is he's stronger this year and

he had to he had to get stronger or else he wouldn't be dropping a 19 year old like that's how high the level is the top it's almost almost overwhelming to think about but it's universal spencer you know we can finish with this you know i don't know if you saw uh we always say okay you know they go faster and faster and faster it's the human it's the athlete you know i don't if you saw today yeah the london marathon yeah one hour 15 minutes, 30 seconds. And the guy who got second also went below two hours. I mean, imagine that running for two straight hours and more than 21 kilometers per hour.

That is in sometimes, sometimes I go bike riding and I hardly get to 21 kilometers. Yeah. If you put the treadmill on that speed, it actually is mind-blowing. It's insane. Yeah. You cannot comprehend someone running that fast. But yeah, you're right, Johan. And it is universal across different, many different sports.

But Pagachar, congratulations. Fourth, not his fourth, but he's probably going to win four monuments this year. Eight out of the last 11, not bad. We're excited to see you, a tour of Romandy. And Johan, you and I will be back on Friday to talk about his Romandy excursion. Okay. All right. All right.

Thanks. Thanks. All right, guys. Thank you.