THEMOVE - Modern cycling is faster all around | Tour De France 2024 Stage 14 | JB2

Episode Date: July 13, 2024

Johan discusses the fact that some people say Tadej Pogacar and Jonas Vingegaard are "Not Normal". What does that mean? Also, Remco Evenepoel has a very legitimate podium shot if he can continue as he has been riding.

I always say the same because, you know, there are certain people, especially on social media, and that they make it a thing. They always, you know, there's one or two, like, really French haters. And, you know, anything of Bogacar and Wingergaard and even Remco, it's not possible. It's not normal, they say. And I look, you know, at these times and look, you just gave me the time.

Two minutes faster than Lance in 2001. Yeah, well, okay. Well, the 13th went also faster. So are those first 13 then not normal? Hello and welcome to JB Squared. I'm JB Hager, joined by

Johan Bernal. We're going to take a look at stage 14, more fireworks in the mountains. And we'll get Johan's take on, uh, how this, how this GC battle is going to shake out and he'll break it down step by step before we do that. I know. Oh, you know, Johan, I know your, your son's racing again today. Did you bring your ketone travel? I forgot. I mean, I forgot. I wish JB, I wish I did. You know what I mean? Like we, we, we look at, look at this time, you know, it's, it's, it's 10 30 in the evening.

Ah, may I? Yeah. Yeah. I could use, I could use a little, a little ketone shot. I've got the big bottle out of the fridge here. There we go. So we'll see how Johan does today with those ketones. It may be terrible. We'll see. And by the way, 30% off your first subscription order.

I recommend getting a subscription. Try it for a while and you'll get a free six pack when you use the link ketone comm slash the move all right let's jump right in Johan I know you're scrambling probably watching a lot of the race in the car today because your son's out racing that's why those of you watching he's in a in a hotel room somewhere but you did get to see it and and let's uh we don't sometimes we jump right to the end and talk about the finale on this case in particular why don't you uh go through the breakdown the breakaway who was in it what we saw and how it unfolded a bit yeah um well as as we

said yesterday jb today was a particular stage it was hard but the the beginning of the stage was the easiest and the three big hills the three big mountains were concentrated in the last 80 kilometers so a breakaway went but it it took a long time again it took a very long time it was incredibly fast uh you know for some reason everybody wanted to be in the break and then finally a group goes with you know about 10 12 riders with some really really good good good climbers in there you know was ben healy was in there david godu piotkovsky um lucenko uh lascano and even matthew vanderpool was in there um i don't know why he was in there but um you know he was he was in there, but he was in there. I mean, it looks like Mathieu Van Der Poel is doing his private altitude training camp for the Olympics.

I know. I try to remind myself sometimes about the Olympics are just right around the corner. And what it came to mind too, not to get off track, but you know, Pitcock went home. I'm sure he has Olympic ambitions again. He does. But Pitcock, there's something else with went home. He's he, I'm sure he has Olympic ambitions again.

He does. But Pitcock, there's something else with Pitcock. He's, he's not, he's not feeling his usual self. I mean, you could see he's tried a few times to go and breakaways one time,

one stage earlier on, he got second, but this is not the Pitcock we are used to see. So, I mean, we all know that there's a lot of sickness. Certain guys have COVID. Certain guys have are going on with covet um i heard there was some gut health issues going around too which

stomach problem which happens every time right yeah yeah i mean jb listen you're you're completely empty you're overheating you get ice cold water i mean this it's a recipe for problems right especially if your body is not able to to fight uh anything from outside anymore so you know what on that note too uh uh on the move this i know you were very busy this morning but on the move we uh if you i don't fallen at Magnus court has been reviewing the hotel rooms where he stays I've heard that common on British Eurosport actually but the reason I bring it up is that the most recent one that we showed on the move it is a dump like he's like it's it smells it's like it's humid. The nearest restroom is down two flights of stairs. It looked like a prison.

It is unimaginable, JB. You have to have been there to know. I mean, this is not glamorous at all. And, you know, you go to certain parts of France and there's not a lot of good hotels there's actually a lot of crappy hotels I'm pretty sure though that the Tour de France that direction is not

staying in those kind of hotels you know they have the best hotels available and the reason I'm not trying to sidetrack it adds to the recovery you know you're just trying to get rest and recover and yeah, you're going to get sick. There are still a lot of hotels like, and especially the Pyrenees, you know,

and even in the Massif Central, you know, no AC, uh, horrible. You have to, you know, you have to have a big fan. And I mean, the fan is not the same as AC, right? You don't rest, you don't recover the same way. That's for sure. Then, you know, the state of the beds is sometimes, you know, I mean, certain teams have their own mattresses. Yeah, that's, yeah, Sir Bradley shared that with us, that Ineos was the first to do that. Traveling with mobile air conditioning units dehumidifiers and their mattresses like okay back to this breakaway sorry yeah so the break

the break uh takes you know four five six minutes but you can see that i mean it it it was okay the the the difference but it took way too long it took way too long for that breakaway to go i mean for a breakaway today to make it they had to go from the beginning and in it within the peloton there had to be like a general consensus okay you know this break is fine we'll just let it go and they needed to start the tourmalet with six to seven minutes not the case um so you know once once they get to the tourmal Not the case. So, you know, once they get to the Tourmalet, the breakaway falls apart.

Usually, I mean, for a breakaway to make it, the break needs to stay united over the Tourmalet and then because they need the manpower in the valleys, right? UAE set a pretty hard pace on the Tourmalet.

I mean, not with the intention to wear out the peloton or anything. They just did their job as the team of the yellow jersey. We've said I've been critical about UAE in other stages and their way of racing. I think today they did a really good stage tactically in the sense that they were pacing uh and they only plan to attack on the last climb and in the second part of the last climb so that's okay that's fine you know uh and then of course you know i mean once once you see that

after 70 kilometers the breakaway doesn't have uh a big advantage then of course you know the the breakaway will go a certain pace the the peloton or the the group of favorites will go a certain pace and they won't take a lot of time because as soon as as soon as too much to molest starts it's it's uh it's mark solaire and and another guy i mean i don't remember who it was uh i mean they're down to seven riders now, UAE, because they lost Juan Ayuso to COVID. Didn't really feel the difference, I think, today. They were perfectly fine.

But yeah, I mean, then those speeds are kind of equal because the breakaway is trying to gain more time. And in the peloton they're still using their you know non-climbers so so so to call them um and because then as soon as as soon as they got on the second to last climb it was then it was Mark Soler who did a really fast pace and did the the advantage just melted away uh very very fast. You could see from there on that the breakaway was not going to make it. Well, and you mentioned how it was a lot of people trying to get into a breakaway. We're going to see a lot of that for the remainder of the tour

because there's a lot of teams that might go home empty-handed. Yeah. And this GC battle keeps scooping up all these wins. It's very tough. It's going to be. I mean, yeah, but the thing is JB, you know, if you look at the remaining stages, those stages are so hard. We're going to see always the same 10 to 15 riders.

Those are the only riders that still have the strength to go and breakaways because plus they need to be climbers because it's all in the mountains. So we're going to see a lot of the same guys, the guys who were in there today, like Gretkovski and Godu and Healy and even Kanapas and Lutsenko, probably. Those are the guys that are going to be in breaks all the time. And they're just praying that they won't get chased down one day, which is very likely.

Well, we'll see. We'll see. I mean, it's going to take a lot. Tomorrow's a different – tomorrow's a good possibility because they're you know between the third and the fourth time there's a huge valley and so if that's if that's a strong group then because uae normally there they will only use two riders so if you have two riders setting a pace against 10 to 12 riders that can that gap can increase really fast the problem is there's still two big climbs in the final so anyways um we could see that the break had no chance

as soon as they got on the middle of the of the of the tourmalet which by the way the tourmalet i saw i found this little stat the tour de france's most visited climb in the history of the Tour, today was the 61st time they went up the Tour de Malaise. That's a lot. 61 times up that big mountain. That's a very, very popular climb. And this is what I think Lance referred to it as the traditional side, is what they went up today.

The other side is a steeper pitch, yes? Yeah, yeah. I mean, usually, you know, when there's big, went up today the other side is a steeper pitch yes yeah yeah i mean the tradition i mean usually you know when there's when there's big uh battles it's been from the other side there's been a few times that i remember i don't know if it was 2010 i guess it was 2010 uh there was a finish on top of the tourmalet uh and it was a battle between Andy Schleck and Alberto Contador back then. And they came from the same side. But usually it's, you know, it's either they come on the other side,

La Mangie, and then they go down and they go up another climb in the Puy-en-Yves. For example, Luzardiden or Otakam or, you know, or last year they did Cotere. So that's the hard, today was the easy, so to call, side of the Tourmalet. Okay, now let's move on to the attack. You know, it sounds like, from what I gather, Bogacar rolled up to Yates and said go. Like, it was sort of an impulsive moment where

he wanted him to attack. Well, I mean, winding back a little bit first, JB, so you know, they get over the second-to-last climb. There you can see already that UAE has the majority of riders compared to visma jonas had only uh matthew jorgensen and wilco calderman calderman was hanging on he couldn't

do a lot and and polatchar still had mark soler and sivakov and almeida and adam Yates, which is incredible out of a group of probably 25 to 30 riders. Marc Solaire was at the end of his strength there. But then if you see how when the last climb starts, super hard at the beginning. I mean, everybody knows this climb. It's a hard climb. The beginning is very steep. Then it kind of eases off a little bit, but then there's three or four kilometers super steep,

and the last three are a bit easier. But, you know, if you have Soler, and then Sivakov takes over, sets a very strong pace, you know, the Kalderman was gone already, so Jonas was left with one, and Jonas still had, and Tadej still had three guys.

So that was already a sign that UAE were on a really good day today. Then Almeida takes over. Almeida, let's not forget, Almeida is sitting in fourth in GC and that's the guy who sets the tempo, which, you know, there I thought, you know there i thought you know well they they

have a plan because uh normally if you look at okay you have pogacar in first almeida in fourth and adam yates in seventh you know based on what we've seen it should normally be adam yates who sets the tempo it wasn't the case so almeida set a strong tempo. And what we saw was that Adam Yates was a little bit further back. All of a sudden, we see that he looks back. Bogacar says something to him. And Adam Yates attacks with, I think, probably like 7k to go. 7, 8k to go. They were still riders from the breakaway in front, mainly.

I mean, the last remaining guy was Ben Healy, who did an amazing climb, by the way. He looked good, but, you know, once those, I mean, if you're out there the whole day and you have to go up that last steep climb and long climb and they're coming from the back, there's no way, there's no way. And Adam Yates bridged that gap pretty, pretty quickly.

And so I think that was that gap pretty, pretty quickly. Um, and so I think that was basically the master move of today, uh, which was, you know, instead of pacing, uh, sending Adam Yates up there,

uh, and then you start to see, um, Visma, uh, and, and also Sudal Quickstep a little bit. They didn't,

I don't think they got the pull, but they were starting to get nervous because if adam yates gets more time he gets closer to ramco and uh you know he can be back on the podium so palachar was you know he was having a free taxi ride i mean if you could call it like that right because it's uphill um and then finally when when adam yates catches uh man healy i think it was it was about 30 seconds or something to the to the to the main group bogacha attacks which was an incredible attack uh we see that jonas in first instance can't follow um of course matthew jorgensen was pulling he goes jonas

needs to react mateo is gone um and when i saw uh pogacar attack jonas reacts a little bit later as he has done until now and it worked out really well he finds his tempo and then he kind of you know ups it you know a little bit bit by bit uh but this time uh i saw one little detail that say oh he's on the limit and you know when pogacar attacked he got like a 10 second gap you're not started to set his pace and he was looking back he was looking back where remco was that's not a good sign uh i thought he was i thought he was looking back. He was looking back where Remco was. That's not a good sign. I thought he was looking for Jorgensen, looking for some help. No, Jorgensen was gone. He was spent.

He was spent. Interesting. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, normally if those two guys are fighting it out, Jonas does not need to worry about Remco and definitely not wanting to hope for his help because he knows that normally these two riders, Jonas and Tadej, they have a pace which is just a tiny bit faster than everybody else,

as we have seen many times. So there you could see that he was okay, Jonas. I mean, he could still limit the losses, but definitely not the same guy like a few days ago. Or it could also be that Pogacar was just stronger than the other day. I think that's the case probably because the performance of Pogacar when he got reeled in by Jonas was, in my opinion, not the usual Pogacar when he got reeled in by Jonas was in my opinion, not the usual

Pogacar we normally see. Yeah, there definitely was a different look on Pogacar today, both during and after. I think he was looking like you described it, Lance, like he just looked stressed. I think Sir Bradley said the same thing when we just seen him on the podium a couple of days ago. They're like, but whatever was wrong seems to be fixed today. Well, you know, it's up and down. We don't know. You know what I mean?

Once you have a good day. What I like today about UAE is that, yes, they did right for the break for the stage win but they only they only did it on the last climb and on the second part and on the hardest part of the last climb uh which you know uh apparently I mean if if I can believe the interviews of both Pogacar and Adam Yates uh this was not the plan the plan was that Adam Yates would then set a pace and then Pogacar would try to either accelerate

at the very end to try to gain a few seconds and the bonification that was their plan you know to gain four or five seconds because if if they win it's ten seconds if Jonas gets second it's six seconds so maybe put another five seconds in so another ten seconds in total right because if if today wins it's 10 seconds if jonas gets second is six seconds so maybe put another five seconds in so another 10 seconds in total right so uh for some reason uh

they have they have changed the plan uh it was it apparently was not uh an instruction from the car it was pogachar's initiative uh and uh it was funny to hear Adam Yates say, you know, I mean, well, you know, the thing is with Tadej, you never know what the plan is. He just changes the plan depending on how he feels. And you can see that Adam Yates, he was normally planning to pace, and all of a sudden he got the instruction or the ask to attack, and he surprised but he did it which is amazing in itself you know okay i'm trying okay i'm trying to you know and i'm trying to think of myself is it let's say i'm i'm a super domestique i'm pacing the fastest man in the peloton well i shouldn't say the you know the best rider in in the world really right now i'm

pacing him up i'm the you know the last paceman and so i'm probably near a limit and then he tells me to attack like well he was not pacing yet he was not pacing yet and so it was almeida who was who was pacing which almeida is more is a different type of rider almeida is more, is a different type of rider. Almeida is more like a constant tempo. And Adam Yates has this, you know, he can accelerate and slow down and accelerate again. Also, if you see, you know, two completely different riders.

So, you know, if Almeida is just a guy, he's just sitting down and paces, paces, paces very fast. Adam Yates, he's always out of the saddle. He's always out of the saddle he's always out of the saddle accelerating and you know but uh at the end of the day it doesn't really matter they go fast both of them um but but you know hearing hearing adam yates say that uh you know with today you never know what the plan is uh it's um i mean you have to be up to the task right I mean if

Adam Yates was sitting there and say okay I'm just waiting now until Almeida is done and then I'm doing my job and all of a sudden you see hey Adam try to attack you know there's only seven or eight guys left and everybody's on the limit and the guy attacked

and he took straight away he took 30 seconds yeah uh let's not forget you know adam yates was third in the tour last year after all so having a guy like that and that that was really that uh move was was was really um very, very good. I think it put the hurt on, on, on Visma. And when today got a gap, you could clearly see Adam Yates slowed down. And then he paced today only for 500 meters, but very important. Yeah. That gives him a chance to get a little reprieve, just to just to breathe for a second and then go, right? And there, JB, you could see that Jonas was going to have a hard time because, you know, so they attacked. He bridged up to Adam Yates, sat on the wheel, and then Jonas kept pacing and he did not bring the back, the gap, the gap

normally Jonas' pace should bring the time back a little bit when Adam Yates was pulling today and you could clearly see that it stayed the same and you could clearly see that Pogacar was, I mean

I'm not going to say he was cruising but you could see he was not going full and he was just waiting, waiting, waiting until finally Adam Yates was done. It was funny to hear Adam Yates with his British accent say, you know, well, I'm just pacing. And then all of a sudden, you know, I feel like I'm done and I need to just, the only thing I need to do is I need to flick the elbow and hope that he's in my wheel and goes. That's what he did. From that moment on, you could see that the gap with Jonas was slowly increasing. And it was actually a very, very well-timed move because I think Balgacar attacks with a little less than 5k to go. And everybody knew that it eases off with 3k to go so he had two kilometers to really you know build up that gap and then there was you know they got more speed

and uh and we could see that there was even a little downhill and then the last six seven hundred meters of of plalade are hard again uh but you know 43 seconds in total you know 30 i think it's 39 plus uh you know four seconds difference in bonuses so 43 seconds uh benefit now the gap is almost two minutes um it's far from over uh but this was an important battle, an important battle that Pogacar won both time-wise and especially also mentally. I think after the doubts the other day, we could see that what happened the other day, I'm convinced it was a fueling issue and that he was running out of energy. He had no food, no gels, no carbs. And, uh, went too early. Uh, didn't happen today. I mean, I think today he filled up on carbs like constantly and made sure that

whenever he tried to go, uh, the tank was, was pretty full. Well, we still have a lot of climbing before that last time trial. You never know when you can get the nutrition wrong, either one of those, any of those top guys. And Jonas said in the, I don't know if it was part of his post-rates interview, another interview, because I was reading it, but he said, tomorrow suits me better. Okay. I mean, I don't know what didn't suit today uh you know three big climbs at the end at the end of the stage um tomorrow is 200k it starts i mean this it's it's a hard stage there's four category one climbs and then finishing on plateau

the bay which is a horse category climb um but but, I don't see it much different than today, actually. Uh, you know, there's not much you can, I mean, in terms of Jonas, there's not much he can do until basically the last climb. And, um, I, the problem that I see is that this year's to de France team of Ismaël Issa-Bike, due to all the bad luck they had in the lead-up to the Tour, is not as strong as

UAE. It's not as strong as their teams from the last two years. And if Jonas wants to attack, he needs a few guys that can prepare the terrain. Matteo Jorgensen is in good shape. He's in 10th place overall, so that shows that he's on a good level.

Then the other guy is Wilko Kalderman, who was there, but was not there anymore when UAE started to accelerate. You can have Walt Von Aert in a breakaway and then was on art could do his usual thing yeah we've seen that in the past I was just thinking about that of course they're missing Sepp Kuss but in the past we in recent years we've seen well then art get in all these breaks then he can pull through the valleys in between really effective teammate we're not quite seeing that this year.

Well, I mean, listen, I mean, we don't know. Could be that tomorrow he does it. We have to be honest, JB. Walt Von Aert this year, due to that terrible crash he had in the month of March, is not the same Walt Von Aert as we used to see. It's just, you know, he is improving. But this is not the Walt Von Aert who did this, you know, incredible rides in the mountains, on the flats,

in the time trials and in the sprints. That's not the case, unfortunately, right now. Yeah. If we have any new listeners who've just started following, I mean, just based on numbers, I'm assuming we do. Like in the last few years, Visma was just a powerful team. So it's such a shame that injuries are being a factor in all of his support in this tour for Jonas. Yeah.

Yeah. No, it's definitely, I mean, and in the first place, JB, Jonas himself. You know what I mean? He comes back from really, really deep and we got all, we were getting all caught up in the hype that, ah, Jonas, you know what I mean? He's getting better in this and that. Okay. You know, this, this, Bogacar's in pretty good shape too, you know what I mean?

He did a mistake the other day, ran out of fuel. The team didn't, in my opinion, didn't do the best job by being too aggressive from way too far, but hey, it looks like they're learning their lesson. We already said yesterday that Pogacar declared that he could be a little bit more defensive. Well, I mean, he did that until, I mean, with 5K to to go he forgot about that i think hey the with pagachar it could have been the climb earlier you just so this is this is a big improvement don't you think yeah it is it is now now he really needs to he really needs to be conservative and just defend that that gap uh if he if he rides defensively i predict it's going to be extremely difficult

for Jonas to drop him. He could stay with him, but from staying with him to dropping him, that's a big difference. So, we'll see. I'm not saying the tour is over, right? I mean, it's below two minutes. There's still a week to go, very hard stages, a lot of climbing to come, so anything can happen. But today is an important win for Pogacar and a very big step in the right direction.

Let's talk about Remco and just a little bit of history. I'll try to be quick you know this Remco even a pool Belgian rider you know the the the cycling Mecca of the world lots of criticism lots of doubts if he could be tour de France like he's obviously you know his one a grand tour including us right it because and that was a lot of it was because of his size. He's leaned out. He's got a four minute gap going into this third week. Well, we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, but this looks very promising. And I said it on the move this morning, and I want your thoughts on it. Remco getting third in the Tour de France, his first Tour de France, is a huge victory. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the best he could hope for.

I said before, you know, realistically, he should go for top five. You know, of course, then we still had Primoz and some other riders in the race. But, you know, we have, I mean, let's not forget he is after all a grand tour winner also right he works well uh you know um but but he is definitely on on the on the good way to be on the podium uh you can see he's in great shape he rides with confidence uh he knows that his pace is just a little below those two guys. Sometimes tries to stay with Jonas. Sometimes needs to let him go. But today he defended himself really, really well.

Let's not forget, he's only 2 minutes 22 behind Pogacar. He's only 25 seconds behind Jonas. And then if you think about the fact that João Almeida is in fourth, and João Almeida will be in a position that he has to pace, it starts to look really good for Remco, for the podium. Especially also because the last time, the last stage

is a time trial, which is his backyard. I know you wanted to talk about the name has not come up yet on this show, I believe, or the move is Derek G. Yeah, Derek G. We haven't talked about him. I think he deserves a serious honorable mention. He's in ninth place overall right now. Very, you know, relatively unexperienced rider in Grand Tours, at least for the GC. But let's not forget, you know, he finished third in the Dauphiné,

which, you know, was Roglic, Jorgensen, Derek G. First time we ever saw him at that level in a GC of a big stage race with mountains and time trialing. Honestly, I am pleasantly surprised that he's top 10. We don't know if he's going to stay there. The guy's fighting. He's hanging on for dear life. I just saw an interview of him,

you know, he's, he's suffering and, you know, he's trying to stay with little groups, but he's there, you know? Um,

so I think, uh, he deserves, he deserves to be applauded and, you know, top 10 in the tour. He's not there yet, but he has a chance to,

to finish top 10. So, uh, I definitely wanted to mention him today. And, you know, we haven't talked about him. I personally thought, you know, Derek G third in the Dauphiné, that's a great result, you know, form of his life. He's going to fade away a little bit now and not be that good in the tour. I mean, he's not podium like he was in the Dauphiné, but still for him being up there, that's a huge, huge performance. be that good in the tour I mean he's not podium like he was in the Dauphiné but

still for him being up there that's a huge huge performance you know with the help of a listener I thought I was getting one up on Johan I sent you a graphic of Pogacar that actually listener sent me but I was like look Pogacar went up two minutes faster than, than Armstrong than Lance did in 2001. And then Johan comes back to me and he goes, 13 guys beat that. That just shows you the, the level of talent, the speed, the, the just 13 people were faster than that 2001 time yeah and was that the record 2001 till today yes okay okay i mean you know it's just i mean you know i mean i'm hearing all these

people oh you know they're going so fast and it's not possible you know they're beating the the the times from 20 years ago and hey there's something called evolution and a lot has evolved since the 2000s so the early 2000s i mean first and foremost jb the bikes the bikes i mean you cannot compare at all the equipment of the bikes the suits the arrow you know anything i mean the training the nutrition the recovery there's dozens of ways they recover now that you guys weren't doing 20 years ago oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but uh when i said as i said you know i mean uh i'm here now with my son you know and they're 15, 16-year-olds. It's the youngest category. Last week, they did a race, 71 kilometers. It was about 900 meters of elevation.

These kids almost did 42 kilometers average, 15-year-olds. If I look back, I I've, I've done, I've actually done the test. I mean, so of course it's a very long time ago, but when I was that age, my races were 36, 37 kilometers per hour at that age. Yeah. Same thing. Even non-professional, they're just faster for all the reasons you just mentioned. So much faster, so much faster. This would be interesting.

There's another thing, JB, you know, mean maybe not maybe not for for the for the climbs but even for the climbs you know aerodynamics it's aerodynamics is everything nowadays you know they're the position is so aero the clothing i mean even when lance riding, and if you look at, if you look at videos, when Lance was winning the tours, he had jerseys. They were, it was like a parachute, you know? I want to go back to when you were 15, you weren't on a Ventum NS1 and shoes that cost 400 euros. Like the equine shoes that Christian said, think about the gear that he, and the

nutrition that he has. And let's throw aside that his father is Johan Bernal, like all these club kids, right? That what they have at their disposal at age 15 compared to what you had. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So I'm not surprised, you know, I mean, I always say the same because, you know, there are certain people, especially on social media and that they make it a thing. They always, you know, there's one or two like really French haters and, you know, anything of Bogacar and Wingergaard and even Remco, it's, it's, it's not possible. It's not normal. They say. Then I look, you know, at these times and look, you just, you just gave me the time two minutes faster than Lance in 2001. Yeah. Well, okay. Well, the 13th went also faster. So are those first 13 and not normal?

Right. It's just faster, just faster all the way around if you look i mean to come back on pogacar's performance you know it is an amazing performance however jb not it's not the first time he does this but you know if you look uh and consider that uh consider that otakam is, let me see how high it is. It is, what is it? Okay, so 1,700 meters more or less. So let's say the effort he did was from 1,400 meters altitude to 1,700 meters. It is already above 1,000 meters. You have to have that in mind when you look at the watts per kilo but he for almost 30 minutes put out charted 6.85 watts per kilo

if you translate that to watts per kilo at sea level that would be 7.2 watts per kilo over 30 minutes oh so that's pretty much that's his max. That's his max. That's his best performance. I looked at that graphic and saw an average of 6.7 so I thought it was at like 90% on this attack but I didn't know the sea level.

Yeah. If you go above 2000 meters it still decreases more but anyway from 1500 to 1400 to 1700 it does have some impact uh you know and doing that after 14 stages you know and at the end of such a hard and fast stage it is an amazing performance uh so this is pugacar at its best uh and so jonas is not far off. He's not far off.

You know, today he was not good enough to follow, but Hey, you know, tomorrow maybe is a different. Yeah. He did say tomorrow suits me better. I don't think we'll spend a ton of time on this show talking about tomorrow. Cause it is almost kind of a repeat of today. Well, I mean, it starts, it's, it's long, it's longer. Uh, it's almost 200 kilometers and uh the climb starts straight away from from the start so that's jb that's horrible that is horrible i mean that's you know from the start you go up top of the first climb seven kilometers and it's the

called the pay the suit which is not an easy climb, the Pé de Surde. So straight away, this is going to be madness. Madness. I mean, bodies everywhere. And of course, you know, there's a lot of downhill and valleys to kind of bring it back together. But tomorrow is, I mean, it's cruel actually to do that. And I think for a lot of us, the coverage starts a little bit earlier. It's on the weekend, this sort of stage.

It's probably going to be worth tuning in a lot sooner if you can. Yeah. I mean, especially the start. The start will be interesting. Then probably the race will settle down. Then maybe around one, two o'clock, maybe at least in spain time for a little siesta it is a good sport for that cycling and golf you can just kind of i think if you look at the profile i'm gonna say from kilometer 75 to kilometer 127 so that's about yeah a good 50 55k that's you know that's nap time

it's one and a half it's gonna be one and a half hour now are you we should maybe should we make this an ongoing thing where johan tells you where your nap window is the model is between 75 and 127 okay all right All right. Let's jump into Ventum Trivia. We're going to give a boy a brand new NS1 road bike, the bike we were just talking about. Yesterday's question was

last November, Germany's Amazon Prime released a documentary on Jan Ulrich. What was it called? In English, it was The Hunted. In German,

auf Deutsch, Der Gejagte. Der Gejagte. Yeah. Yeah. All right. in English it was the hunted in German of Deutsch there gay yucked yucked yeah yeah all right today's question this is gonna take a little research I think it's it's a little bit out there gonna have to do some work which Ventum employee twice won the US Pro crit National Championship and was runner-up at the US National Championship Road Race. Pretty cool. No idea. Yeah. Send your answer.

Do the research. Send your answer. You have, you know, sometimes until the end of the day to do that. VentumRacing.com slash the move. Okay. And also if you are in the market for a brand new bike until the end of July, you can get 20% off any Ventum bike that's road gravel, e-gravel, and they make some, uh, really, really, uh, high-performing tri bikes too. If you're into that, that's actually where they got started in it um a couple of questions for you here we go is long long time fan of the move podcast especially jb squared not long ago uh

audrey vanderpool commented on how unhealthy thin riders in the peloton look. What are Johan's thoughts on that? This is from, and I'm going to try my best here, Matias Mrenovic. What do you think? I saw that quote from Adry, actually. And he said, you know, he's happy that his son has a different approach to cycling, that, you know, he does do things professionally, but not to the extreme of, you know, always weighing his food year round. And, you know, it makes it a bit easier if you're called Mathieu van der Poel and you have the genes of Adri and the genes of Raymond.

The biggest talent. It makes it a bit easier, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I agree but I agree the riders are super skinny it's all about power to weight as long as you can maintain

your power and lose 2 kilos or 3 kilos then you're in the game today for example I was really today you could really see because we had a lot of shots from the back of jonas finger guard i mean how tiny he is how narrow he is yeah we didn't we didn't think there was anything to lose from the last two years he is so little you know like i mean of course he goes up these hills amazingly fast because there's

and i don't know i think he's 58 kilos right or 57 kilos um at this i mean i was we were actually watching the the race on my ipad just before the start of my my son's race and there was you know there's five riders on the team here and uh and say, you know what? There's probably one of you five who weighs less than Vingergaard. Everybody else weighs more than him. They're 15 years old. Yeah. They're super tall. But still, I agree with Adri.

But the way cycling is now, that's what it is. If you're above 70 kilos, you need to have an insane amount of power to balance that weight watts per kilo ratio with those guys who, you know, like Jonas probably doesn't have huge watts numbers, but hey, doesn't need to you know do you find that you know that some of these riders with that i mean a lot of most of them have nutritionists i assume and that it's very calculated do they like lose weight test lose weight test okay now the power's dropping that's the number like do they do that i think so i think so i mean we've all seen the other day on the show, on the move, when we had Matteo Jorgensen on the show. You know, he had no shirt on amongst others. I mean, he had nothing. The show's taken a new twist this year, by the way.

No, I mean, Matteo is a big guy. You know, he's tall. He has wide shoulders. How narrow he was. It cost. I mean, listen. I mean, first and foremost, the riders. They need to sacrifice so much to get to that kind of weight.

They've tested it it they've tried everything uh you know two kilos more four kilos more two kilos less uh that's what it needs to be you need to find the balance between your ideal power and your lightest possible weight and you know if you if you lose weight and you lose a little bit of power, that's fine. You know, it's, it's until you lose too much power that that's, that's much. So, uh, it's, it's, it is calculated. It's mathematical. And then there's, uh, uh, Jonas Abrahamson, who's on the other end of the spectrum.

Just, that's just, you know, that guy, that guy is unbelievable. I mean, what a story. Yeah. And I know Lance had doubts about the weight gain. You know, he thought it was pounds. It was kilos. 20 kilos. Kilos.

Crazy. Crazy. All right. One more quick question. Rumor has it that Simon Yates, who's been a bit disappointing this tour, is heading to Visma and Ben O'Connor is his replacement. Good move. What can they aim for with him? And this is from AJ in Atlanta.

Yeah, it's not a rumor. It's a fact. Ben O'Connor goes to Jaco Alula for sure. And Simon Yates goes to Visma for sure. You know, I think Simon has been at

Jaco, the Green Edge team. So we call it for a very long time now. I think he has come to an end, his cycle has come to an end there and Wiesma is just trying to recruit, I mean listen

that's crazy actually to think about, so Adam Yates is domestique for Pogacar and now Simon Yates is going to be domestique for Jonas next year imagine that, now Simon Yates is going to be domestic for Jonas next year. I mean, imagine that, those two Yates brothers leading it out for their leaders. Let's remind people, was it stage one last year?

It was the two of them, basically. First and second. So we're seeing a strong Adam this year. Simon can't get there. It's just off right now. Well, I mean, but, you know, I mean, last year they were third and fourth in GC also. Adam was third. Simon was fourth.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's a good move. Probably Simon Yates needs to change the environment, needs to change his comfort zone. You know, he's been a very long time there. You know, for the moment, it's not working out. Visma, for sure, has come with a good financial offer.

And, you know, I think it's a good move. All right. Good question. If you have a question for Johan, please send it in, the move at wedo.team. Thank you for tuning in. I know it's a super late night for you, Johan, so we appreciate you doing this, along with outcomes, which is going to be very interesting for tomorrow and La Movida yet to come. So anyhow, thanks for tuning in and Johan, we will talk tomorrow, you know, big day before a rest day.