THEMOVE - Paris-Nice & Tirreno-Adriatico 2025 w/Bradley Wiggins | THEMOVE

Episode Date: March 16, 2025

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin welcome on Sir Bradley Wiggins to break down Matteo Jorgenson's incredible performance to win his second-consecutive Paris-Nice title and UAE's Juan Ayuso's overall win at Tirreno-Adriatico. They analyze Magnus Sheffield’s masterclass on the treacherous final stage in Nice, Filippo Ganna’s surprising climbing prowess and Jonathan Milan’s dominance in the sprints in Italy. Plus, they debate what these performances signal for the season ahead—who's primed for Milan-Sanremo, Jorgenson’s potential as a future Tour de France contender, and whether we’re witnessing a shift in the sport’s power dynamics.   Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access: https://access.wedu.team/   Pique: For a limited time, get 20% off for life plus a free Starter Kit (rechargeable frother and glass beaker) when you grab the Pu'er Bundle. With Pique's 90-day money-back guarantee, you've got nothing to lose. Try it now at https://www.piquelife.com/themove and feel the difference on your next ride.   Maui Nui: Maui Nui offers the only 100% Wild-Harvested meat that's completely stress-free and responsibly sourced. It's perfect for anyone looking to elevate their meals with delicious, high-quality protein. Maui Nui Venison is offering THEMOVE listeners a limited collection of our favorite cuts and products. But...supply is limited by the nature of their work, so don't wait. Check them out. https://mauinuivenison.com/lp/THEMOVE?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=show_notes&utm_campaign=THEMOVE&utm_term=THEMOVE&utm_content=landingpage Helix Sleep: Get 25% OFF any purchase using code HELIXPARTNER25. Plus, each mattress order comes with 2 FREE Dream Pillows ($150 value). https://helixsleep.com/themove      

Jorgensen, I said earlier, he'll win the tour one day, that guy. He's, he's got a demeanor about him and an aura about him that reminds me so much of some of the great riders, Miguel Ingeria and people like that, you know, the way his pitches fight and the way time trials, but his mannerisms off the bike is he's a very calming figure and he'll make a great, great team leader. Everybody welcome back to the move. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bernal and we're lucky enough to be joined by Sir Bradley Wiggins. And we are breaking down Perry Neese and Torino Adriatico to one week races that just wrapped

up. Matteo Jorgensen, the American, won his second consecutive overall title at Perry Neese and one of you so Taddy Pagato's understudy, I guess we could call them wins Torino Adriatico Before we get into the analysis though I want to take a quick break to talk about our sponsors for the episode The first one is peak teas which offer they offer a wide range of a dissolvable teas designed to reset your gut, enhance metabolism and optimize your energy levels. And while they offer a lot of different products

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But American Mateo Jorgensen was isolated from his Visa with Lisa bike team today on the notoriously difficult day at Perry Neese. Didn't stop them. One attacked one is a second straight Perry Nice overall title, which is super impressive and American his American compatriot, Magna Sheffield won the final stage over at Torino Adriatico UAE's one. I use. So like I would almost say effortlessly won the overall wasn't even that focused

on it. It seemed like was doing whatever he wanted to do all week. Still won the overall with the single uphill finish and the time trial. Philippe Ogana got second heaviest guy. I believe of all time to finish on the podium at Torino little tracks. Jonathan Milan won the final sprint today. Why a one week stage race finishes with the final sprint. I have no idea, but so we can spend as much time as we want on Perry and East. Let's start with Torino. Johan, what were your thoughts on this race? And then

we'll get to yours Bradley. Well, we, we, uh, we spoke about, uh, yesterday's stage, um, on, on Friday, I guess. Yeah. Like Spencer, we said, wait, this is, this is, uh, I use those race to win. I think I said I use was going to win the mountain stage and the overall. I mean, effortlessly, I wouldn't call it effortlessly. But he was for sure the strongest, not just yesterday, the whole week. You know, he was he was always there whenever it was difficult. My opinion did some little bit too much work sometimes in the other stages, but yesterday that didn't matter.

He had a great lead out, impressive, impressive tempo of Isabel Toro. That was basically the one who ripped the front group apart, eliminated Filippo Gana already with his tempo. And then Ayuso just looked around a little bit and just went, not really an attack, I would say, just a little acceleration and then just kept his tempo to the top.

So yeah, I mean, I was not surprised, but still, let's not forget, he's still very, very young. And it's clear that he's a natural leader. That's why we said, he's never gonna race together with Pogacar in the same team because it's not in his DNA to be a domestique. He always wants to be the leader and whatever. He is the leader, he delivers, I have to say.

You know, you like him or not, but the guy is real. You know, let's not forget forget he was 19 and he got third in the Vuelta in his first year professional. Won the baby Giro also before that. And yeah, I mean, he's a top rider. I mean, if you talk about guys for the future, the big talents, he's definitely one of them. And I mean, you know, second in the time trial behind Philippe Lugana, it was almost logical. We just won a hard stage uphill finish. That's a bit of a strange design, I think, this race. Not really like several hard stages. It was the time trial, then a bunch of stages for sprinters. And

then this is one uphill finish. So pretty clear who does the best time trial and then climbs the best is for sprinters. And then this is one uphill finish. So pretty clear with us the best time trial and then climbs the best is going to win. And I think that's what we saw. Was it suspiciously good for Filippo Ganna? Suspiciously good. Remember then when the tour of Suisse had that one year where it was like perfectly set out for Fabian Cancellara and then he wins the overall little hometown cooking in that course design possibly. Well, the course design was obviously good for Philippe Pugana.

I mean, it's the time trial and then this one, one climb of, you know, eight kilometers, 8%, but you know, as we said, eight kilometers, 8%. It's you have to be a climber. Uh, Philippe Pugana in great shape can limit the losses, but he can't win. What do you think, Bradley? Yeah, I mean, on his day, he's a class act. Anyone who can produce the power he produces for the hour record for World Time Trail Championships and various other races we've seen him win is capable of an all-out effort on an on an eight kilometer climb to limit his losses.

And he did that this week and obviously he scraped up into second place on GC today with the time bonuses. But they're definitely seeking an Italian winner, aren't they, after the Nibali years and after the Gazzetti. I think it was Gazzetti the last Italian winner in 2009. I think I saw that the other day. Maybe Nibali in that interim period as well. Yeah. So they've been dry in terms of wins, you know, in recent years. And I think it was good to see Ghana performing well, but also Jonathan Milane as well. It's good for something for the Italians to cheer about. But in terms of GC, since Nibali has retired, they have been a bit thin on the ground in terms of someone who could actually win the Giro or win the Tour de France. And that's been a long time coming.

We've seen that for a few years now. But yeah, I mean, it's a quality race, isn't it, Tirreno? And obviously the dates have changed. Now it used to finish on a Wednesday, didn't it? Or Tuesday, which was just before Milan-San Remo. And now it runs parallel with the Paris-Nice race. And so it's, it's, it's, we've had a, I would say we'd had a lesser field terrain over the last few years and Paris-Nice seems to be the one. It is more very, very, it's a similar pattern to the Tour de France,

a similar race and similar style of racing, similar roads, of course. But I think Paris-Nice on paper this year, tough in terms of preparation. But yeah, I mean, he still delivered the goods, didn't he, on that climb? Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, also, also he had, he had a very strong team. And I think, I don't think there was any, any doubt that he was going to be the big, the big favorite, you know, because if you look, okay, Ghana second, then third is Tiberi. He's never won a GC in the past.

Good rider, solid rider, but he's just one level below guys like, I think, quality wise, Ayuso is just like a little bit more of pedigree than a guy like the Betty who was more like a regular writer. Right. So, uh, but they, he's pretty good also, you know, he's a, I expect you're a really good Giro last year, like really good. Yeah. I mean, we should, I was, yeah, sorry. I was, I was impressed with Tom Pidcock, um, all around this season, really. I think since he's made that jump out of the Ineos ship, I think that's been a good move for him. And he looks a lot more mature this year. He looks like he's taking on the responsibility and leadership. And he came, you know, I did see his interview yesterday where he said that he actually let the wheel go. Now, whether that was

a bit of sort of, you know, whether he was a bit of a psychological, I don't know if he was a little bit embarrassed that he got ridden off the wheel and perhaps I could have stayed with him, but that's still nonetheless a good week for Tom. I mean, that's better than he's done in the past. I know he's won a lot of races, but coming off that Olympic year last year with the mountain bike and if he can keep that focus to the Giro, I mean, he's got to be on the podium at the Giro if he keeps up at this rate. Well, that's a big ask, but it's not impossible. He's definitely, I mean, it's a different, it's a different pitcock than what we're used to see, especially in stage races, right? Yeah. You say it's difficult, Johan, you say it's difficult, but that's what he's calling Cardis. You know, this is a guy who has being touted as Britain's next Tour de France winner.

So you'd expect him to make that jump up at some point. And I think this is a make or break year in terms of can Pidtop win a Grand Tour? Yeah, well, I think I think he can, but he needs to improve his time traveling. Very, very, I mean, depends on the course, of course. But, you know, time traveling is not, uh, is not great until now. Um, you know, he's obviously, he can't produce the power of those, of those big guys, but you know, he's tiny, he's arrow and means he, if I'm not mistaken, he's been world champion

time trial, no, in the juniors. I believe so. Yeah. So, um, listen, he's, we all know that he's a super talent, right? And I think what, uh, the biggest change, what I see is that he races very differently. He races very, you know, like he's very eager to race to, you know, he knows that he's the leader of the team. I've heard from people within the team that, uh, you know, as soon as he showed up at the first training camp, he behaved as a leader.

And it also lifts this team Q 36.5 to a different level. We have performances of some of these guys that we've never heard of before. Um, yeah, I think for both, you know, for both for pit, but for the team also, it's been a great move. Yeah. Just to support. Yeah, that sounds shocking when you say that Brad about the Giro, but here Juan Uso's first, this is on the Queen stage yesterday. Tom Pickock second, 13 seconds back. Jay Henley is behind Tom Pickock.

13 seconds back. Jay Henley has won the Giro recently. Mikael Landa fourth, 15 seconds back. Tiberi 20 seconds back, was really good at the Jura last year. Derek G really good at the tour last year. He's sixth and then you have like Simon Yates 50 seconds back and 14th. Adam Yates 20th. He was probably working for one of you. So 114 back, but those are seriously good.

GC climbers that Tom Pickock's beating. So I agree with Johan on the TT. It's like, well, how do you finish six that Torino, but that was not a good time trial for Tom Pickock. It did make me think, and he looks like emotionally, he looks a hundred pounds lighter emotionally. Like he looks different on the bike this year versus last year where everything felt plotting and heavy.

And like it just wasn't coming easy to him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We should also mention Ghana was only, this is crazy by the way, this guy is listed at 83 kilos. He was 50 seconds back on that summit finish. I've seen an interview yesterday where Ghana says he's 86 kilos. 86 kilos? Johan, what is, everyone's going to be 120 kilos by, by next year at this rate. What is going on? I don't think so. Listen, this is an exception. The guy has so much power. He's a great, he's an

incredible athlete. And that's why I said, it's not because, I mean, the pod, Jodeci Presa, his performance on Golderath, for example, was pretty good. Yesterday, eight kilometers, 8%. That's, that's, that's a, that's already a little bit too much. And, uh, and it's, and okay, if you can do it if only once in a stage, yeah, but if you have multiple of those clients in a stage, then, then with that kind of weight, there's just no way, you know, there's just no way you can do it. But still listen, I mean, second, then second in Tirino for Ghana, um, in the overall,

that's pretty incredible. Well, we have the man himself here. What do you think, Brad? I mean, you went from a, from a big track guy to someone said, Hey, you've got the power. Let's, can you do that on a bunch of climbs? Yeah. I mean, the thing with Ghana, um, I mean, the majority of training now and training for the track and him training for the hour record, he had a lot of years doing the track program. They spend so much time at Altitudin, Livigno or Tenerife, and even now he'll be doing that with Ileana Ios. Whether you're a sprinter, a climber or a time trialist or a classics rider, the bulk of

the training now is individual efforts, up climbs, doing threshold. That's kind of the adopted training mechanism now for every rider, certainly within INEOS. So you get used to riding on your own and riding at your threshold power. It's all about increasing threshold power to increase your overall physical power. And gone are the days where riders like in Johan's era

would go out and just do six hours and do a bunch of climbs, but nothing specific. And then obviously as things moved on with SRMs and power and stuff, you'd have these guys training for the mountains and the tour. But classic riders would very rarely use SRMs. I mean, Mark Cavendish, it took him 15 years to use an SRM. But Ghana is used to that now. So he's used to monitoring his effort over a climb like that and working out how I can

get from A to B as fast as possible. He knows he's got a good 20, 30 minutes of... I mean, this is a guy, I don't forget, who can average near 500 watts for half an hour on the flat. If he can do that on the climb, even at 83, 86 kilos, he's going to push to stay with the front group. He's a big guy as well. He's not someone who you can push out the line when he's on sixth or seventh wheel. This is a guy who's got presence as well. So everyone sort of lets him ride and he's got a great team around him. But I think

Dan, he's got a climbing like that in him. I mean, some of the time trials he's won in the past on the Giro and that haven't been flat. He's capable of producing those sort of performances on different terrains. And I said earlier, I do think that if he can get over the pressure and the podgeo, which I think he will, because he will certainly be in the front going into the podgeo, he's going to be one of the favorites from Alonso Arrimo because it's only a narrow climb. He can ride good position into the wheels and get into the front when they turn right up the climb. But yes, to say this is a new generation of riders now and a new sort of breed of animals that we saw Mads Pedersen doing a very similar thing in Paris Nice climbing with the front. And it's a new sport to when I was doing it and even more so since Johan was doing it. And

you know, you just have good all-round athletes now and obviously you have your climbers and things, but there is this sort of new hybrid athlete, a bit like Ghana, that can pretty much do everything despite their weight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Still, it's still impressive, but I agree, Brad. I mean, you know, he's for Milan Sanremo, he's one of the guys. I mean, he was there already last year. And you know, when, when Vonderpool won, he was one of those four, right? So, yeah, he was, yeah.

The way he's riding now is absolutely going to be there. It just depends on, you know, if, in my opinion, I think it's going to depend on how good Mathieu is or how good Tadej is. Those are the two only guys who can actually ride away. The others, Peterson and Ghana and Pitcock will, you know, yeah. You know, could be tactical. But anyway, Ghana is definitely one of the favorites.

I agree. I mean, because if they don't get rid of him and they look at each other and, you know, after the downing of the podgeo, he's gone. I mean, because if they don't get rid of him and they look at each other and, you know, after the downhill of the Poggio, he's gone. I mean, give him five minutes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of the predictable things with Milan Samraimo, in particular this year's Milan Samraimo, is you know where Pogaccio and Van der Poel are going to attack. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, there's a blueprint for those type of guys as to how to win. So Ghana, it would dictate the tactics, wouldn't it? But do we know if Pugacar is not going to attack on the Chipresa?

I was just wondering about that, Johan. Well, that would, that would go away from the norm, wouldn't it? So that would throw a different spanner in the works. But, but, you know, historically in that race, you know, it always goes with that in that last kilometer and a half of the climb, which flans off. And that's where Pogacar has gone the last few years. That's where Vanderpool has gone. And they do say that if you get to that corner with 15 seconds, you can win from there.

You need 15 seconds on the corner. But yeah, someone's got to try something different because how many times has P you have done that and no one's been able to do anything about it. So it's going to be interesting. I think in your will plan their tactics around knowing that that's where they're going to attack and try and preempt that with something before maybe, or having many writers, their numbers to make sure that Ghana and they block the road essentially, I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we'll see. We'll see next week. Well, on the vein of we'll see next week. Well, on the vein of Milan San Remo, after that summit finished yesterday, Milan was, not Milan, Ghana was third. He finished second overall.

Tiberi was third, Derrick G fourth. Well, how did they get into second? Because Jonathan Milan, not his teammate on the road, but his national team teammate on the track, led him out for an intermediate sprint. He looked pretty good in that sprint. He was slipping, sliding all over the road with the wet spot, still won it, got the time bonus to jump into second overall and then gone to let out Milan for the final sprint.

A little challenged more by Sam Bennett than I thought he would be. I didn't even know Sam Bennett. I, I frankly forgot about him. I was like, who is this? I didn't know he was in the race. I didn't know. Yeah. I couldn't, couldn't tell who was sprinting against Milan. Milan looks pretty, pretty fast in those sprints though. I mean, I guess everything you're saying Brad about San Remo is it all spoiled if Phillipson or Milan make it over the Poggio and into the group at the end. I mean, that's where the Ghana, like a Ghana late attack would be hard to stop, I guess. Well, yeah, I mean, that's where there's different options, isn't there? I mean,

if Phillipson gets over, you know, again, he's got the problem with Vanderpoel, you know, which one of those? Does Vanderpoel then ride for Phillipson when they get over the top and it's all together? I mean, that's what's such a beautiful thing about Mid-Anseign Rainbow. That's what makes it such a spectacle is it goes down to the wire every year. It's probably the most unpredictable classic, the most unpredictable monument of the vibe. I mean, with the firepower, there's the, if you look at the town of Peterson, Vanderpool, Pitcock and Pugacar, man, it has to be a tactical, you know, if these guys go full, I can't see Milan or, or, or Phillipson be there at the top. They can come back though.

It depends on how much, how much advantage they have. It's normally never more than 10 seconds, right there at the top. They can come back though. It depends on how much advantage they have. It's normally never more than 10 seconds, right? At the top. So that depends. Yeah, that's the beauty of it. I don't think Phillipson will, I think that that day will be clearly, the leader will be Van Der Poel.

And I don't think, I think that all legs will be in the Van Der Poel basket. And I don't think they're gonna that all legs would be in the Vanderpoel basket. And I don't think they're going to look around for Phillipson to be honest. Cause Vanderpoel, you know, this is the start of his season, isn't it? Really? These races. Yeah. And he doesn't race that much, you know, he doesn't race that much. So all of these races. Listen, if we, when did he win? Was it two years ago he won? Yeah. And then Phillips someone last year. That attack was impressive. Impressive. My opinion, from what I've seen from

Van der Poel now in Tirreno, I think he's better than that. You know, he did his first race, won. I mean, it was not a high level race, but still won. And now he showed a few times in Tirreno, in today, you know, that he's, uh, he's really going for it. You know, the day he attacked just for fun, you know, he was just out there for a bunch of kilometers playing with everybody on the climb. And, um, yeah, I think, I think, but Van der Poel has his eyes set on the Lanshan Ramo big time. Before we moved to Perrines, I mean, maybe, maybe I'm just a coddled.

I've been raised in too many criteriums in the, in the U S the final circuit today at Toronto look a little janky to you guys. It was like, they're like doing turns in the apex. It was like the circuit that they're doing multiple times. Apex of the turn. There's like a stoplight. It's just like road furniture everywhere. It felt a little, a little strange.

That's Italy. That's just Italy. Shocking how some bad, how bad some of the roads were. It was, if, yeah, if you gave me the choice between that and Perinese, I might pick Perinese. Yeah, no, that's Italy through and through, you know, you, you, you never be surprised to have some little old lady crossing the road with a dog or something. Even the Finnish straight, you know, you, you, you never be surprised to have some lady crossing the road with a dog or something. Even the Finnish straight, you know, when you look at the cameras going down the Finnish straight, whoever lines the barriers up, they're always sort of, you know,

they were, yeah, they were not. Yeah. That it's just, it's, some things never change with Italy. And it's, it's kind of, that's the beauty about racing into the, I think it's the sort of chaos and, and, you know, just how disorganized it can appear sometimes compared to, you know, the sort of professional cream, clean Chris sort of organization of ASL in Paris, Nice and races like that. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, um, in terms of, in terms of, I think it was the same circuit as always, no, they're in some minute little, um, was it, uh, I mean,

they haven't finished there often, um, it works and there's been some changes, but, uh, but yeah, they've, they've done that many, many times that circuit. They could spruce it up. Probably. It was just my, my, uh, my bias take, I guess. But do you guys have anything else to say? Well, also before we move on, so now you have me think about San Remo, like what if Pogacar didn't attack? Like what if he just sits in the group and then counts on his ability to handle

those climbs so much better than everybody else that he has more left in the sprint? Is that like a viable alternative? He's got to attack. No, depends who's there. Doesn't it? Depends how many rides there. I think Pagaccio's secret weapon is attacking to minimize the group. I think if too many guys go over that climb, other rides will get over the climb. And then, and then I don't think he stands a chance. He's, he's got to attack. Isn't he? And to be fair to Pagaccio,

I don't know if he's capable of sitting back, you know, he's just, you know, at some point you're guaranteed to attack, isn't he? In the race. I like your Trepresa idea. He will attack Spencer. He will attack if he has the legs. What's that mountain pass in the middle of the race that it's not even on TV. You know, yeah, we could go there maybe. Well, one year, one year, uh, one year it's been one from the Turquino already when Kiyapuchi won.

No, sorry, sorry. Bunyo, Bunyo when Bunyo won, uh, with Kiyapuchi, I think they were gone already from the Turquino river. It was really bad. Yeah. 1990, 1990, you did a hundred K. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because Bunia was not like it's like you're letting some

some unknown go off the front like they knew he was gone. Like, yeah, we'll pull him back, I guess. He was very strong, man. Let me tell you, he was very, very strong, Johnny Bunio. Yeah. I mean, that's a long way. That's the one that he wanted. He. I mean, that's a long way. He won the Giro that year as well. Didn't he? What he led from start to finish in the Giro.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. So we are you guys done with the Torino? Any more thoughts to share? Johan, what was, did you hear anything about Adam Yates?

Cause he's going to the Giro, right? Uh, yeah, he's going to the Giro. Yeah. Him and Ayuso together. So that's going to the Giro, right? Uh, yeah, he's going to the Giro, yeah. Him and Ayuso together. So that's going to be interesting. Yeah. And I, I just kind of wonder where he's out with that. What do you think he was working for Ayuso at this race?

Like, was that part of the plan? Or that's just kind of how it worked out. He would, because he, if you look at yesterday's stage, he was at the wheel of Del Toro. And then it was Ayuso. And then after, I mean, Del Toro was putting such a high pace, Adam Yates had to go out and just went to the left and got dropped. But the plan was that he would be the last guy to set the tempo on the climb. I mean, I don't know. I mean, something tells

me that Adam Yates, obviously, he's a great rider, but, you know, he's not getting any younger. And these young guys are coming very, very fast. And, you know, I think both of the Yates brothers, Yates brothers, they're still great, but I think we've seen the best of them already in the past. Um, and you know, for them now to go for a grand tour win, I think the competition is too, too, too tough. Yeah. I mean, it just felt a little bit like watching the Polish army, like the Calvary ride in versus the Panda Panzer tanks today where it's like, Ooh, like some of these,

like I used to, it just feels like the sports moving so fast. Like guys are getting better at such a rapid pace. And then as Brad said about pitcock where the next, if he's supposed to be the next British tour winner, the next step is him like podium at the Giro. Like for I used to, he's already podiumed at a grand tour when he was a teenager. So what's the next step? It's probably contesting the year to tell you this year. Logically. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Assuming, I guess, assuming he gets better.

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and thank me later. They also have kids mattresses that I'm quite interested in because the better your kids sleep, the better you sleep. Um, that's not even in the copy. That's me just, uh, wanting to buy more Helix products, but Perry needs just to catch everybody up. Matteo Jorgensen went into, was not the leader of Visma at the start of this race, went into the final day after, uh, Jonas Vindegaard had left due to injury

in about the middle, I think it was like stage five. He had a, believe a 37 second advantage on Florian Lipowitz from Red Bull, Bora Hansgrohe note with the TV coverage starts. Why this is not start to finish coverage baffles me, but they start the coverage. He's already isolated from his team in theory, kind of a tricky situation. Mateo or Magnus Sheffield from Ineos, the team of Tymon Arnsman who was in third place at the start of the stage, rides off the front.

In theory puts Mateo in a little bit of a vice there. Mads Pedersen is also off the front, I guess, trying to get green Jersey points, really impressive ride. I mean, those are legit mountains that he's climbing over, um, as a. Hybrid sprinter classics writer, but Mateo just didn't really panic. He kind of kept the gap as close as he could. And then he attacked dropped everybody else. Um, didn't catch Sheffield before the line.

Magnus Sheffield wins his first world tour win of his career, his first win in three years. He really needed that. Jorgensen gets finished about 10, 15 seconds back, gets his second consecutive overall Perry-Neese victory. I mean, and when you start to think about, he won by a minute 15 over Lipowitz. I went back, that's the biggest margin of victory since 1995. So

it doesn't sound like a lot, but like Pirenis is normally won by seconds, so that's a big victory. He looked, you know, I think he had some struggles on climbs due to cold and we're talking like losing seconds, handfuls of seconds, not cracking. But when you look at it, he was pretty confident all week, like didn't seem that fazed by anything, including his team completely not being around him. And like, if you look at the list of double winners of Perry and East or multi-time Perry and East winners, it's like pretty rare company. And he's going on like his, this is his part-time job.

His day job is leading Visma at the classics, which he starts now. So like we're dealing with a pretty like pretty impressive Palmer is here. Like Johan, what's your take on what this means for Mateo and where's he going from here? Well, I think it's a great confirmation. You know, if you look, if you listen to his interview, after the stage, he said, you know, he's been only thinking about this race, solely about this race for the last four months.

So it was a big goal for him. That's why I said, you know, in the other podcast, and I think, you know, I want to repeat that I think that Matteo Jorgensen should have been the designated leader of Visma, even with Jonas, because Jonas has, let's face it, you know, Jonas, once you've won the tour twice, there's only one thing that you have to do is win the tour again. You know, it doesn't, I mean, if Jonas, for example, has a season, let's say he wins Paris Nice and he wins Catalonia and he's second or third in the tour, everybody says, okay, it's not a good season. Once you've won the tour and you go back, you need to win it again. That's the way they judge you. And of course, I understand,

I think he wants to win all these big races like Parinís and like Catalunya. He already won the Basque Country. He's going to want to win the Tour of Switzerland in the future, I guess. But for a guy like Jonas, and knowing what the value is of a rider like Mateo, it shouldn't even come from the team, in my opinion. It should be a guy like Jonas who says, hey, okay, I'm here. I want to prepare. I want to do good. But if it really comes down to the wire, Mateo, you're the leader and I'll do whatever I can

for you because I know what you mean for me in the month of July in a lot of other races. So that's just me saying it from the sideline. I don't know what the conversation has been within Visma, what Matteo has said, but we all know that this is a big deal for Matteo Jorgensen. This is like the highlight of his season. And then he wants to be on a good level in the classics and a good level in the tour, but we know that in the tour,

he's not gonna have any personal ambitions. He's always gonna be there for Jonas. But, you know, I mean, the way he repeats his victory and the way he confirms, I think it's very promising for the future. He's a very, very complete rider. He can time trial, he can climb. He knows how to race really well, you know, he takes advantage of circumstances. Like that, the second or third last day in the

wind, with the team, of course, and then today, you know, being isolated with 60k to go, basically, there was 30 40 riders left, not one single teammate left. He didn't panic and just waited till the last climb and then just put his own tempo. And you know that when you're isolated and you're strong, if you go fast on the last climb, there's going to be three or four riders with you maximum. It's going to be all single guys. So, you know, they don't have teammates. So that's, that was the best tactic and that's what he did. And then finally, you know, he went, he went away by himself.

So yeah, I mean, repeating this victory, but at least it's not an easy race to win. You know, it's usually a race that, uh, especially now in this format, you know, I mean, the Brad, I know you, you want it. And I think it was harder and it was the, the last day was time called this, right? So, yeah, it was definitely, it's definitely a lot harder than it is now. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, but no, but I mean, but I mean to win, if you're the strongest, it's easier to win format rather than now, you know? Um, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's, it's, it's a tough week's racing. And, um, I think this week was one of the toughest additions I've seen

because of the weather. I mean, it really, you know, it really turned the weather really turned on from this week, didn't it? And I think that was today was the first day I saw him riding in shorts and short sleeves. So, but, um, it was interesting what you said about that, that dynamic between Jorgensen and Younes. And I'm not too sure with Younes where I stand with him on this one because obviously he's

a class act and as you say, he's trying to win a third tour. The disappointment last year of having that big crash where he was out for the first part of the season and came back for the tour and did better than everyone expected. But since then, Tadej has gone on a trajectory where he's just continued winning in the most dominant style we haven't seen since, what, Eddie Merckx. And I wonder if Younes psychologically now, with all the talk of Tadej Pagato and the super year he had last year, whether he wants to, because two years ago, when Younes won the tour

for the second time, you know, it looked as though, you, when Eunice won the tour for the second time, you know, it looked as though Eunice was the stronger rider in the tour and he was going to reign for the next few years and win those tours. And Tadej since then, as you know, his performances have gone through the roof and the gap seems to have opened between them too now. So I wonder with Eunice whether he wants to now really stamp his authority on this season. And the way he attacked the other day day when you, when his teammate had the yellow jersey on that climb, it really looked like the aggression in him looked like he was trying to make a statement. And obviously watching Tadej winning Strada Bianca the week before, I think

Eunice really wanted to come back and put his stamp down on this Paris Nice that I'm really going to be a tour contender this year and I'm not going to play second fiddle again. But, you know, in doing that, you know, was he a little bit more nervous? You know, he saw him have a crash. He's broke his hand again, I believe. And it's a show. It's not broken. No, will he retire with that hand? And I think, yeah, I think that's going to be, you know, it's a big one for Jorgensen, as we said. And it may have served Eunice better to operate as you said, and give him the reins this week and work for him and really give him something back for July when he knows he's going to return that favor. But I mean, it's still early season, isn't it? And they're still all realistically,

they're all still chasing Tadej. Tadej is gonna be the clear favorite in the Tour de France this year. But Younes, as we know, is the only one who can really challenge him on his day. And he's done it in the past, and he nearly did it last year, even with the injury early season. But it's funny that cycling's got to that point now where it's just an arms race,

and it's also a psychological battle, even when they're not on the same races. We think 15, 20 years ago, you didn't see the tour riders until Dauphiné did your or Midi Leib. But now it's just, I mean, it's great to watch. But Jorgensen, I said earlier, he'll win the tour one day, that guy. He's got a demeanor about him and an aura about him that reminds me so much of some of the great riders, Miguel Ingeria and people

like that, you know, the way his paces fight and the way time trials, but his mannerisms off the bike, he's a very calming figure and he'll make a great, great team leader one day. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I mean, you know, we'll see where, because he's, I think, I guess he's like two or three years younger than today and probably four or five years younger than Jonas. He's a little older than you'd think. He's 25.

And then if you can believe it or not, Tadipa Gacha is 26 years old. He's not that old. But yeah, Jonas is older. Yeah. Jonas is about 28. I think he's 28, but you know who this, so this is not that I guess fun to talk about in a podcast. This is probably just all good news for Visma. Cause if they realistically want to beat Pogacar, they need two leaders. But do you remember how they beat Pogacar in 2022?

They had two leaders. Like they had this upstart young guy, Jonas Vindegaard, who had finished second at the tour and expectantly Primoz Roglic was the team leader back then. It's hard to remember now, but he was. And then you had this young writer kind of usurp him, slowly usurp him. And it, this reminds me a little bit of that. Yeah, they'll need, they'll need to use tactically, uh, Jorgensen very, very smartly during the tour and I'm sure they will.

Do you want to, I mean, the last four winners of PeriNesse are Matteo Jorgensen, Matteo Jorgensen, Tadej Pogacar, Primoz Roglic. It's pretty good company to be in. Not bad. Not bad. Yeah. You remember the last rider to win it two years in a row is a hard one. Sean Kelly, wouldn't it be Sean Kelly or Miguel Ingeran maybe? It's almost impossible to get right. Johan, do you have a guess? Yeah, I know who it is.

Max Schachman. Yeah. Is that crazy? Oh, god, yeah. Recently too, 2020, 2021. I think one year he won it because Primos crashed in the last stage. And the other one was COVID. And I guess it got short. The last stage of the last two stages didn't happen. I think. Yeah. Yeah.

But this is, I mean, Sean Kelly won this race seven times in a row. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. By the way. Wow. Yeah. Do you know who has the record on the cold days? Time drill. So it's got to be you, right? Yeah. It's me. Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah. Bring back the cold days. Bring it back. It was great. What a great, I was watching one the other day from 92 when Jean-Francois Bernhard won and it was amazing one the other day from 92 when Jean-Francois Bernet had one.

And it was amazing what a way to finish Caldez that was. It's funny that they've gone away from those traditions, isn't it? A bit like Tirreno always used to finish with the time trial, didn't it? Yeah, you're right. Tirreno was always the time trial the last day and Caldez was the time trial in Paris. I think it was a great way to finish. Yeah, it was. This, I, this, I like this road race though, this course that they do at the end of Perry niece, I mean, Jorgensen being so strong kind of ruined it, but you, you can get some pretty wild finishes.

Like remember when Mark Soler did he win by like three seconds because of time bonuses on the stage? I mean, since they finished their in nice, uh, and the last stage is always warm. And I think it was a great way to finish. And it's always been unpredictable. And it's been sometimes came down to the wire a lot of times. Hmm. How do we feel about just how isolated Jorgensen was to me, this is a big becoming a big problem. No, it was to be expected. I mean, you know, once Jonas was out, I mean, if you look at the composition of the team, it was a big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, this is a big becoming a big problem. No, it was to be expected.

I mean, you know, once Jonas was out, I mean, if you look at the composition of the team, it's only logical, you know, you have. You have components, you have, um, what's his name? The, the, the other Norwegian guy, the young guy, uh, it's her heart. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you have, uh, Bart lemon, Bart lemon was somebody he should have been in

that group of 30, 40, but you know, let's not forget the, all the work they've done, you know, the whole week they've, uh, they've been on the front the whole time. And, um, I think, I mean, Jorgensen said it, he expected to be isolated. But then again, you know, even if you're isolated, your rivals, his rivals was, it was Lipovic and Arnsman, those two. I mean, it's not that difficult to control those guys, you know? Well, we were hearing about, you know, Ineos, they're cutting lunches. There's no, no one's got food at Manchester United anymore. They really got to cut back.

They might've got a cash infusion from Mateo Jorgensen because they were doing a lot of work on the front when he was isolated. Like he was in no danger because he had this wonderful team on the front doing all this work for him. Brad, what's your opinion on? Yeah. I mean, you've, yeah, I mean, it's funny, isn't it? It's funny. I mean, it's funny how now with Ineos, that's deemed success is to win the last stage of

Peronies and everyone's praising Ineos today because they rode on the last climb, well, they rode 50k to go and they got the stage win, which is great. But this was a team at one time that was hoping to win all three grand tours in a year. And it's funny, it's a bit, it's a bit like this at Man United at the moment, you know, how, how quickly the standard gets lowered now and Man United now are just hoping, you know, to get back into Europe next year or whatever, but you know, it's, it's, it's funny.

I find it amazing that, you know, now Ineos' level of success is winning a stage for the week, which is much, much more a bit like all the French teams want to do, want to stage in Paris-Nice. And, you know, years ago, that would have been, you know, not even bare minimum. I mean, they didn't even used to go for stage wins. It was all about Grand Tour and GC. So, yeah, I find it odd with the budget that they have and the team structure they have and the money and the riders they have that now is where they're at.

You know, they've won a stage in Paris Nice and they can rest a bit, you know. But this is, as I say, this is a team that was trying to win all three Grand Tours in a year, not that long ago. It's definitely changed a lot. a year, not that long ago. It's definitely changed a lot. Well, I mean, if you look at the last few years, Brad, I mean, the way they're racing this year, they've changed completely, strategy. They're not focused anymore on GC. I think we've seen a different attitude of Team Ineos during the whole season already. And obviously, you know, it's something that's been that's been

told to the guys. I mean, if you see how happy they were after the stage, it's like, you know, I agree with you. I mean, they they if if we know where they come from, what Ineos and team Sky stood for. Yeah, it's kind of sad. But hey, you have to start somewhere. Yeah, I was particularly impressed with Josh Tarling this week. Yeah, Josh Tarling was good this week. Yeah, really good, really good. I don't know if they can rebuild towards what they once were. I have my doubts about that.

You know, everything has evolved so quickly that there's a bunch of changes that need to happen there. But anyways, you know, at least they try and it's like to have a few, a bunch of motivated guys winning with the team is always, uh, very satisfying. And we can see that after the stage. So, um, I want to give a shout out to Magnus Sheffield. You know, I mean, he's, he was, he was impressive today. Very, very strong. Yeah. Uh, even, you know, even when he was out there, he also, he attacked, he caught, uh, the group,

the little group of Peterson dropped those guys. Um, I guess Vlasov was in there. Vlasov was there. Uh, and Phil Scott was there. Like really good climbers, really good climbers dropped those guys. And then when Jorgensen went on the last climb, initially I said, okay, Jorgensen is going to eat him up. And he stagnated and then he, he lost time on the climb again. Great performance of Sheffield. It's also a guy that in my opinion, there's more potential in that guy than what we've seen. He's a great time trialist, great time trialist. And obviously in

the climbs he can defend himself. Not a pure climber, but, uh, for these kinds of races, one week races. Um, I think we haven't seen the last of this guy is what is he 23 years old? Well, it's crazy as he hasn't won a race in three years before today and he's 22 years old, so that's wild. Um, no, I, Johan, I agree. It's I never know quite what to think about it. He he's never bad. Like he actually, he racks up a lot of really good results.

If you remember, he was six that Flanders last year. It's really good for a 21 year old and then fourth overall outside of winning the stage, which was an amazing ride. Finished fourth overall. He was only like 19 seconds behind time and Arn's been his teammate and third. So good GC, like one, all the guys like this, and I almost feel like they get, it's almost the curse because you're so good. And this is how Jorgensen was before he went to Wiesma. It's like, you're good at everything. And then it can be difficult to focus on one thing.

And you're kind of always racking up really good results, but not the best. You're not never dialing in on anything. So I never quite know where to place him in the rider type. Well, he was extremely happy today. That's if you see his interview, you know, he's super emotional. I know how hard it is nowadays to win a race in professional cycling. Yeah. Well, he also needed this too. Remember he was the one he was with you at the

tour of Switzerland. Yeah. He was in the group with genome, made her, I believe. He said, he said he dedicates this wind to genome. He said, you know, after what happened that day, cause he was with genome, made her, uh, in that downhill. And he said, you know, he would never have thought that it was possible again to win a race. Um, so it was, you know, a bunch of emotions today and, um, yeah, strong guy, really strong guy, really nice, nice guy. We had him on the podcast. Um, yeah, I think, uh, we said material Jorgenson, I'm just remembering this now for this episode last year. So if you come on this show, you'll probably win either the overall or stage at PeriNees.

It was not for this. It was not for this episode. We had them on the day after you won PeriNees. True, true, true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Correct, correct. Yeah. Yeah.

So Brad, 2026 PeriNees could be, yeah, yeah, yeah. Correct. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So Brad, 2026, Perrionese could be, yeah, it could be you. Do you, uh, before we go, we should about the person that was off the front when first was Mads Pettersson, but not really his cup of tea this race. And then he stayed away. I couldn't quite figure out why he was off the front, but it was because he was worried Jorgensen was gonna win the stage and take his green Jersey. But the green Jersey sprint point

was at the top of Colt Dez, which if you ride the back of Colt Dez, I mean, that's steep, that's hard for me. I've never won the tour. So that's a diff, I would say that's a difficult climb. And he was first up that climb against really good climbers. He kind of pulled the pin after that, but that this we're talking

about San Remo for Torino this, uh, to me, if he wins terrain or San Remo next weekend, like this, as you can point at this and be like, wow, he he's in really good shape. And he was 10th on the summit finished yesterday ahead of Jorgensen, which is unbelievable. Yeah. He's definitely ready. He ready for me. He's been incredible this week. Impressive.

Is he fast enough to win a sprint? I guess is my only concern. Does he not need, I mean against Ghana, I want to pull pitcock and, uh, I think so. I think so. you can be there with these guys. And I guess it's a weird sprint. You know, if you just even thinking back in my mind to Perry or San Ramo sprints and it's, you keep some weird results, just stuff you didn't really see coming out of that group.

So at 300, 300 K's and the legs are probably a little bit different. I have to speak on the kilometers. Uh, it's like, you know, most of the guys, they get to the bottom of the podge and they say, Oh, I'm feeling, I'm still feeling great. And then all of a sudden, you know, you have to get out of the saddle. They said, Oh, I'm not, I don't feel so good anymore. And a lot of sprinters just don't have it anymore at the end. Um, a Peterson with this form,

he's one of the co-favorites in my opinion. What do you think Brad? Yeah, definitely. I think Pedersen, I mean we've seen how well he rides when the weather conditions aren't great. I mean he won his world title in 2019 in horrendous conditions.

But I would think that Mads, although San Remo is one he'll want to win, I don't think it's going to be a hard enough sprint finish and a hard enough race where it kind of is a war of attrition that he gets to the end and he seems to always be the strongest when everyone else is on their knees. But I think, you know, he's one level game, of course, but I think Harry Roubaix is the one that really he wants to win, like most riders. But so I think that that period of, you know, when we get to sort of E3, you know, Flanders,

Rubé, I think that is the week. I think this week is now setting him up for that, that the classics weekend. But San Remo, of course, he'll be there and he'll want to win and he'll put his hat in the ring to try and win. But I think the one he's really after and it has been for many years now is Flanders or Roubaix. I think so. I think I agree. I agree. Those are better races for him. He can win Flanders. He can win Flanders. Those races are made for him. You know, I think Flanders more than Roubaix this year, the way he's riding.

Yeah, probably. I mean, he's been second already in Flanders. As a very professional, he's been second already in blunders as a professional. He's been second already. This is a great ride. A great guy. I really liked the guy. Super, super. Yeah. I love him. The tour was right now.

He would win. Like if it took place in the winter spring, he would, he's the best rider in the world. Yeah. Whether he, uh, it's a weird chance. Maybe it's not weird, but every year, I think it He would, he's the best rider in the world. Yeah. He, uh, it's a weird, maybe it's not weird, but every, if you filter out last year's San Remo, the last two and a half years of major one day races have all been won by solo attacks. And I guess he proved today that he definitely could get off the front

at one of those races, Flanders, probably specifically in stay away. Johan was, you've, wow.meyda, UAE had sickness. We don't want to like slam on the UAE team. They weren't there. Almeyda was there. Is he had that great summit finish and then just kind of, I think I said when we were doing the preview for this, like he's in the doghouse in terms of betting, like I'm not, I'm no longer betting on Juwa Almeyda to win stage races. Like what's, not, I'm not, I'm no longer betting on 12 made it a win stage races.

Like what's I, I'm going to be too harsh on them, but I want you to like, what's your take on Almeda in Perry knees? Well, I mean, I think his, his the way he's able to finish a stage or an uphill finish, this year is, is of a different level. The last 500 meters of a climb, he showed this in Algarve. He showed it in the day, this week in Parinis. He's a bit inconsistent. And I've heard that he's not doing great in the cold and the rain. And I've heard that he's not doing great in the cold and the rain.

And then on top of that, he was a bit sick also. McNaughty was really sick, had to abandon today, but Almeida was also sick. Listen, UAE was nowhere to be, you know, not compared to what we use of UAE in Parinís. You know, they've tried, but they just didn't have it. I'm not going to judge Joe Almeida on his performance. He won a nice stage, he beat Jonas Wiengert who was going full gas for the stage win. So the two times it was uphill finish where Jonas Wiengert this year was trying to win were won by Almeida. So actually, you know, the first one was won by John Christian because he gave it away. Oh yeah, you're right. But he was the strongest guy right on the uphill finish. Let's not be too harsh on it. I mean, I like them. It's

coming from, I'm, I'm running the João Almeida fan club. I'm just wondering when is, when are these wins coming? But as you said, it's hard to win in pro cycling. Before we go, Brad, I want to circle back on something you said. If Matteo Jorgenson wins the Tour de France, how do you envision that happening? Is that straight up against Tadej Pogacar? Is that a year where Pogacar is not at his best? I would say at the moment it would be a year when Tadej Pogacar is not at his best or not at the race, which is very unlikely, isn't it? Does happen.

I mean, it does happen. And the sad, you know, let's not forget that, you know, accidents happen. I mean, look at, look at Eunice last year. You know, he was, Johnny just made the tour and then was, was not himself at the tour, but rode well. I mean, you can't expect Tadej to have a clean run every year. I mean, it's pretty sad that I'm talking like that, you know, the only way anyone else can win is if Tadej has a crash. I mean, but, you know, his dominance seems to suggest that at the moment, that you can't see anyone,

particularly after last year. I mean, last year was phenomenal what he did, but what he's picked up this year was straight where he left off. And he, you know, every race is just getting more and more impressive. And he's the blueprint to how he, there's a blueprint to how he races now. And he seems to execute that blueprint every race and get the job done. But I would, I would, at the moment, I would say that that would be the only way I could see Matteo, you know, winning, but that's not to say he's not capable of winning, which puts him in, you know, in the, in the hat for getting on the podium. That obviously he's got Eunice and his team, but, but he's

capable and he's got the physical capabilities to win the tour one day, whether he does or not is another matter, but that's how highly I rate him. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Today was, I was impressed. It's just, yeah, it's like the aura on, on and off the bike is definitely sticks out. And then Johan is you're famously pro US cycling. Um, I think you won over everyone's and America's hearts and minds. What was your quote? There's no weirder person than an American cyclist. Oh, no, you have to, but Mr. Matteo Jorgensen does not, does not fall into that category. Yeah. Well, I was going to say, I think that this like this, I'm very excited about this generation of rider cause they're,

I remember me saying that. Yeah. I think I'm like a really popular documentary that was in the US. Mostly I was right. You know, there's, I've never seen more weird personalities than Americans who turned pro cyclists. Um, but traditionally it would have been true. What's that? It was the one who had all tattoos on his face. The one who had all tattoos on his face from Christina. Oh, David Klinger. Do you know what he did? Dave Klinger. Yeah, but that's, that's not even the weirdest. That's about it.

Has been a bunch. Yeah. He was actually a really nice guy. Yeah. No, no, I don't. I think it's gonna be a great season. Really looking forward to it. Yeah. No, no, I don't. I think it's gonna be a great season. Really looking forward to it. Yeah. I guess we should shout out Michael Storer, one stage seven, Peronis. I didn't, we didn't say anything about him, but from the breakaway. Kind of a, when he got into that breakaway at the start, because they were, Vismo was pacing and then Skelmo's had crashed hard

and they kind of stopped pacing. Like I guess if you guys are racing, it was like a hundred kilometer stage. Would you think the breakaway has a better chance of staying away or a worse chance of staying away? Cause it's so short. I mean, you know, I mean, that's 15 riders, you know, 15 riders and there was multiple teams with, with double riders. So nobody for nobody for GC. I mean, Sturr was kind of close, but not that close. So, so I thought they had a good chance. I mean, especially at the bottom of the climb, if you saw that the difference, almost two minutes at the bottom of the climb,

of the climb. If you saw that the difference, almost two minutes at the bottom of the climb, Alaphilippe pulling full gas for Sturr. So they were pretty confident and great win for that guy. Yeah. I mean, good riding. But you say Alaphilippe, he was key. And then he was in that final group pretty far today for Sturr, caught back on one of the descents after he got dropped. So impressive riding from Alaphilippe. All right. Well, we will. You guys, Johan, you guys will be back on from Lonson, Ramo on Saturday. And then I guess we can't.

Brad, you'll be back on later this spring. We can't talk about it yet, but we got big things planned. Thanks for joining us today. And we will talk soon.