THEMOVE - Paris-Roubaix 2025 Breakdown | THEMOVE

Episode Date: April 13, 2025

George, Johan, and Spencer break down Mathieu van der Poel's stunning win at Paris-Roubaix, his third consecutive title at the brutal race, over race-debutant Tadej Pogačar and Mads Pedersen. The crew discusses the key moments of the race, where Van der Poel's win puts him amongst the all-time cobbled greats, how Pogačar's runner-up stacks up against other GC contenders' showings on the rough roads of northern France, and what Wout van Aert and Visma-Lease a Bike can take away from the race after missing out on the winning move. Pique: For a limited time, get 20% off for life plus a free Starter Kit (rechargeable frother and glass beaker) when you grab the Pu'er Bundle. With Pique's 90-day money-back guarantee, you've got nothing to lose. Try it now at https://www.piquelife.com/themove and feel the difference on your next ride. Maui Nui: Maui Nui offers the only 100% Wild-Harvested meat that's completely stress-free and responsibly sourced. It's perfect for anyone looking to elevate their meals with delicious, high-quality protein. Maui Nui Venison is offering THEMOVE listeners a limited collection of our favorite cuts and products. But...supply is limited by the nature of their work, so don't wait. Check them out. https://mauinuivenison.com/lp/THEMOVE?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=show_notes&utm_campaign=THEMOVE&utm_term=THEMOVE&utm_content=landingpage AG1: If you haven't tried AG1 yet, they're bundling it with their Omega-3s for free, so it couldn't be a better time to start – it’s something I’ve actually been able to stay consistent with and that’s why I’ve been partnering with AG1 for so long! So subscribe today to get a 1-month supply of AG Omega-3 with your first AG1 order! You’ll also get their Welcome Kit with everything you need to get started on your AG1 journey. So make sure to check out https://DrinkAG1.com/THEMOVE to claim this special offer. Square: Square keeps up so you don’t have to slow down. Get everything you need to run and grow your business—without any long-term commitments. And why wait? Right now, you can get up to $200 off Square hardware at https://square.com/go/THEMOVE. Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today. OneSkin: OneSkin is the world's first skin longevity company, keeping your skin looking and acting younger for longer. Get started today with 15% off using code THEMOVE at https://oneskin.co

In the last seven monuments, there's been two winners, Matthew Vanderpool and Tadej Pogacar. That's absurd. And then the last 10 one day races, world tour one day races that have had both Pogacar and Vanderpool. Seven have been won by one of those two riders. The eighth was won by Vanderpool's teammate, Phillipson, who he helped win. And then the other, the other two, there's like two at large ones. One was Madden Mahorich with the solo attack. The other one was Wout Van Aert. So one of those was like Wout Van Aert's one of the most talented riders I've ever seen.

And he has one of that 10 like and like Pedersen is a world champion and he's third. So everyone on the podium in this race is a world champion. Everybody welcome back to the move. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with George Encapy and Johan Bernal, Mr. Perry Roubaix himself, George Encapy. I'm filling in for an absent Lance Armstrong, but I'll do the best I can at getting us through this. We have Matthew Vanderpool winning his third straight Perry Roubaix ahead of, I guess debutante

is what you'd call him technically, Tadip Bogotcha in his first ever edition getting second place. And Mads Pedersen, former world champion, a little bit of bad luck getting third after struggle with a flat tire at an inopportune time. Before we get Johan and George's take on the race though, let's hear from a few of our sponsors. Everybody, this episode is brought to you by Peak Teas. As a cyclist, we all know that energy, endurance, and digestion can make or break performance,

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You're in Paris right now in your, in your hotel room. You, you roughed it down from the straight went straight from the velodrome to the show. George, you were on the ground for the race. Like what? I'm just going to throw it to you right away. Vanderpoel wins his third straight. Like what is your, like what are you thinking right now as a Rubé specialist yourself? Like, did you think you would ever see anything like this?

No, I mean, they're just so dominant these days. Um, the big, the big three riders, um, well, we have essentially had the same exact podium planners and Rubé just a little bit different with Pogatron, the top step, but the same two other guys there. And just the way he rides. I mean, I know we're going to break it down, but attacking with over a hundred kilometers ago, I don't think we've really ever seen anything like that. I mean, the big guns, but Pogatar and Van Der Poel and Matt Peterson started off so

early. I don't know if they just want to not deal with the rest of the Peloton and be away on their own, but yeah, it was just really, really hard racing, full gas from the start and just a different kind of cycling that we've seen. George, don't you think, I mean, I've been thinking about this. Why do they go so early, especially in a race like Gruber, like 104 kilometers, we see Pedersen attacking Pogacar and then, and then Van der Poel. The three of them basically in one kilometer time. Then it's basically stretched out, the separation, some guys come back. But that's basically the

first big selection and none of the others come back. Don't you think it's also a way to, since they're such a big favorite, it's also a also a way to, to make sure that, uh, like in the last 60, 70 K, they are sure that they have their cars behind them. Because that's a, yeah, that's a great point. You know, if it slows down all the time, the cars will never be there when they go. Right. And now we saw in two occasions when, when Bogacar had the problem in the corner and and when when Van der Poel had the puncture on Carrefour de L'Arbre, they both had their car behind. Right. So anyways, I agree with you. It's this is this is a you know, in this era, and especially with these

guys, you know, these guys go and they actually know that if they joined forces, they will make it to the finish. Yeah. You know, once there's two or three guys together, everybody else behind, there's never enough firepower behind. Nobody has enough teammates that they come that they can come back. And today we saw the perfect example of that. Yeah, we saw we saw really what I thought the first 100k as we're getting close to the first section, which we all know how hectic that is. Lilo Trek was all in the front. They looked super strong. And that

first between 100k to basically 160k into the race, I felt like they were dominating the race. Then of course, we saw Philipsen crash, ends up making that final selection with Vannevoel and Pogatar, which looked like a really interesting tactical play. And it was going to be fun to watch them try to get to the finish line. But obviously, Philipson having to come back from that crash was exhausted. Vanapol accelerates to try to get rid of Pogatar, ends up getting rid of Philipson. You can hear, I'm sure the directors on the radio going, slow down, slow down.

You're losing your team in here. And then Pogatar, the other directors probably telling him, go fast, he's getting dropped. It was just really, really exciting to watch. Yeah. I think though, George, that, I mean, if you look, I just, I just looked at some of the, you know, when we were waiting here to start recording, I was rewatching some of the sectors, the main sectors. First of all, unbelievably impressive what Pogacar has done today. He comes and defies the world specialists on every single terrain. Let's say, if you look at Van der Poel, Philipsen, Van Aert, this is their terrain, right? And he's at least as good as them.

And if some of them have a bad day, he wins. Today, though, even without the crash. Van der Poel was the strongest. Pogacar tried, I mean, I'm going to say the strongest, but the combination of the strength and the skills is what today gave the victory to Mathieu Van der Poel. You know, there's nobody who rides the cobblestones better than him. I mean, we saw a few times again in the corners,

he used the grass to take the turn. And the way he avoided the crash of Pogacar, actually, I mean, you have to be completely in control. But there were two or three times where Pogacar really put it down like super hard. He was really going and van der Poel was, I mean, every time he was either straight on the wheel or he came back from the back and closed the gap quite impressively. And I think it was expected, you know, because if you see last year's, last week's performance of Pogacar and van deroel, you could say, okay,

it's hilly today. It's flat, but the cobblestones, it's skill, it's skills. And it's quite impressive to see that a guy like Pogacar is actually the second best skilled rider in the world because Vandervoel is the best in the world. There's no, no contest. Yeah, no. And what a lot of people forget, Rubé is like you just said, that's dead flat. And it's basically the guys that are really good sprinters, Vannepol, Phillipson, Mads Peterson, Wild Van Aert. These guys are basically top 10 sprinters in the entire world.

And these sections are field sprints to get into them. So when everybody's talking about how Boa Charlie is going to win easy, I'm like, he's got to get to these sections, but you just saw how good he is at positioning, which a lot of people miss early on in the race. I know we all know how stressful that is, but he never looks under any pressure when he's fighting position. He makes it look so easy, which for a grand tour rider.

I mean, I mean, I remember Lance himself, he would get stressed out. He'd be like, you better stay with me. Or, you know, we need I need five guys around me, at least poetry. He's kind of sometimes he would get stressed out. He'd be like, you better stay with me or, you know, we need, I need five guys around me. At least Pogatroyd, he's kind of, sometimes he's on his own. He just kind of, he was, he was actually in certain approaches to certain cobblestones. He was quite alone. I mean, Florian Vermeer was there. Niels Paulet was there quite a long time until he punctured.

But I have to say, man, he, I did not, I mean, of course, you know, you can never underestimate he's the best rider in the world by far, but I did not expect him to be so good in Paris du Be. He really impressed me. I have to say, he really impressed me. And I mean, like you said, Vandenpul was probably stronger, but without that crash, they would have finished together. Vandenpul would have won.

He would have beat them in the sprint, but they most, pretty much guaranteed would have finished together because Pogacar was obviously trying to drop him. I mean, that's why he crashed. He was going super fast. He even said at one moment, he just thought the motorbikes were going straight and he didn't realize it was the right turn and boom, they crashed there. But they would have finished together. He did recon it quite a few times, but at that moment in the race and also the speed, because let would have, he did recon it quite a few times, but, uh, you know, at that moment in the race and also the speed, you know, because let's not forget, he just did a attack, tried to drop a wonder pool and he came into that corner. Um, and there, you

know, after that, after that crash, George, uh, I mean, uh, I know you were in the velodrome, so you probably haven't, I mean, you were watching it on the big screen, I assume. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, so obviously he has to change bikes. Uh, first time split, they give it 20 seconds. And then we have this, this battle of 10, 15 kilometers, you know, it comes down to 15, 12 seconds. Then it goes back up. And then the moment it gets to 20 seconds, again, uh, there, you could really see the skills of Vanderpool. Every single sector where there was two corners, it was always one or two seconds that Vanderpool gained on Pogacar. And that's what basically then when it got to 30, then I think it was basically game over because both of them were dead, dead, dead the last 20k. Both had the suffer face on and it's also rare to see that with these guys.

Yeah, we haven't seen even Pogatross in his interview. He said he was just empty, just crawling to the finish line, although it didn't look like it. But to see, yeah, like you mentioned, you know, the time gap going from 21 seconds to 15, 16 seconds, you start thinking maybe there's a chance. But Vannepoel had a great point in his interview. Like the chaser always has the advantage. They have to go full gas.

They have nothing to lose. And the guy in front, Vandenpul, in this instance, he said he just kept it steady and stayed focused and just tried to keep a steady pace, which in turn you were able to pick and choose your own lines if you're not going in the red. I mean, of course he was in the red, but he wasn't full-full. He was really focusing on his lines and keeping your own lines. If you're not going in the red, I mean, of course he was in the red, but he wasn't full full.

He was really focusing on his lines and keeping a steady pace. And you saw the, the gap start to go back up. Yeah. Yeah. He's so good at that too. Vanderpoel. Like remember E3 two years ago where Van Art crashes and he can, he holds it at like 15 seconds and the chaser thinks they're getting, they have a chance, but almost like it burns them out. Like you saw Pogacar go so deep. He's probably thinking I can get to the car, get to the car, get to the car. And it fries them out. Vanderpool, he's so even keel when he's off the front like that. Obviously you have to be really good to put yourself in that position. But two questions for you guys. Are you sure we wouldn't have seen Vanderpool

just pop Pogacar? Like I think he probably would have dropped him in those final cobble sectors. Like just judging how labored he looked, it just felt like the race finally caught up to him because early on I agree, I got up at four in the morning to watch this thing, like almost from the gun. And he was shockingly good. Like through those, I couldn't believe how easy he looked without teammates, but it's like, okay, maybe doing this race a few times does help you because he looked gassed by the end. I mean,

and there was sections when Vanderpool's attack you with 90 K to go, he was going like 62 K an hour on the flats. And I mean, this is what Mark Cavendish said to us, George, last week on FaceTime. He's like, you gotta understand like Vanderpool's FTP is close to 500. So Pogacar is really strong, but that's probably even stronger than him on the flats. And just, can you imagine like the, the, the trauma your body would be going through responding to those attacks 90 K from the finish? I think he would have, I think he was chiseling away at Pogacar and he probably would have dropped it, But I don't think so. No, he was, he was flying through.

I've seen Pogacar two or three times on the limits. Um, but for sure Vanderpool has been on the limit a few times also, but, uh, I don't think that, you know, he would have suffered, but, um, the thing is Spencer that Vanderpool didn't really need to drop Pogacar was Pogacar was Pogacar who needed to drop the under pool, which is a huge advantage. Right. Don't you think George?

Agreed. And then two points. One was, which I found really interesting was Pogacar said he lost his computer and one of the bike changes. He said up until that point, he said he had some of his highest power numbers ever. Yeah. Think about this is a flat bike race. How hard Paris Roubaix is not only hard, but the damage it does to your body.

Secondly, apparently the last two sections were headwind. So it would be a bit more difficult to drop off your wheel in a headwind. But I mean, I agree. Randle pull the attacks he was doing. He was doing on the in the Aaron Berg. And then again, on the flat section before the next section after the Aaron Berg. Yeah. Yeah. That was impressive. It was super impressive. You saw these guys were swinging, just trying to catch back up.

That mean he had, he had 90 K for the finish line. I almost couldn't believe what I was watching. Like George, I remember when you were racing, maybe I'm misremembering this, but I feel like Arnberg would be the first selection. It's like, all right, now the race is starting. Unless it was a really wet muddy day, which we've had, normally you get to the Arnberg with a hundred, 150 guys, right? And it is a full, full on battle. Those days are over. Yeah. No. And also, I mean, and then back in the days, George, you know, it was a sprint to the sectors

and then usually it's still down. It was grouped together. I mean, we have not seen that at all. Correct, yeah. Maybe after the first three or four sectors a little bit, but after that, it has never, never slowed down. Nobody could come back. And, you know, in your days, it was usually, okay, fight for position and then, you know, just get off the cobblestones and, and, and

up to, up to the next one. But it was again, a fight in the bunch to stay up there. This, this has not happened today. It was, I mean, look at the speeds also 40, I mean, the second fastest, I think it was the second fastest party to bet ever. The only one faster was last year. Yeah. And last year there was a lot more tailwind. And you know, we can also, we can say, okay, you know, the, obviously the equipment has changed on the pool was on, and I guess the majority was on 32 millimeter tires, three bars in the front, 3.3 in the back, which is crazy compared to back in the day. Do you remember

the tire pressure back in the days, George? It was, I would say, oh, definitely over 80 for sure. That seems crazy. No, no, no, no, no, no. Yes. I think if I remember correctly, for Paris-Roubaix, usually we were riding 23 millimeter tires during the season. Then for Flanders, you guys had 25s. 25s, yeah. And for Paris-Roubaix, 27. Yeah. We had 27, right?

Was it Hutchinson or was it Hutchinson, right? Yeah. I don't remember the tire brand, but we never went over 28. That's for sure. No, 27. 27, 27. And, uh, but no, I would say five and a half, five, six bars or something. Uh, uh, well, maybe I don't know what that is in PSI. Uh,

you're saying PSI probably five and a half, six bars or something. You know, you was probably in the eighties. Yeah. Yeah. I think six bars in the 80 because four bars. Six bars in the 80s. Because four bars is like in the 50s, I believe. Yeah. So, yeah, obviously, you know, completely, completely. I have to say, I have to mention though, Spencer, I don't know if you know this, but, you know, now we see, we see all the riders are on high rims, right? Yeah. This guy was the first rider ever to ride high carbon wheels in Paris.

That's right. I remember I got a lot of criticism for that. And when I did Flanders with it too, they're like, what's he doing? He's got carbon wheels. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You were the first ever to do that. I remember that. Was it also, did you also, was it the same year that you broke your, you broke your bike and, and... No, that was a different year. Yeah. I think I did carbon wheels after that. I don't remember, but yeah, I was one of the first guys. Yeah. That's yeah. It makes a lot of sense. It's funny that you would get crap for that Georgia because you're going,

you're, as you said, it's pancake flat. These are insane speeds are going at it's like, yeah, it would actually make sense to be and you're alone a lot because it breaks up. So that makes a lot of sense that you want to be arrow at that race. I mean, on, I'm just thinking, Johan, I like that theory a lot that they blow it up early to have their cars, but I've just been thinking about like changes in all sports we've seen recently. And a lot of times it's a simple calculus causes that.

Do you think it's just these big teams and Ineos was putting a lot of work in it all fell apart for them because Ghana was caught behind a crash or flat. I can't remember now. I think he flatted. He flatted. Ghana flatted. He was never back in a good position and like it screwed the whole race up. So they were gone from the front then it was Alpecin. But do you think these big teams are saying like if you're Vanderpool who am I going to lose to in this race if I make it hard, I will lose to Pogacar and Pedersen. Maybe those are the only ones that can do me if I make this race hard. It's easier to beat two people versus 20 people. Let's just blow it up from as far out as possible. But you know what, you know what Spencer also being these guys know each other,

they know how they race and, and you know, they're once there's a selection, they know if, if underpool goes and he knows it's Pogacar and Pedersen, he knows these guys are going to ride with him. They are going to ride with him. So it's basically a way of assuring the podium. And then basically the survival of the fittest in the final, right? Because they just like to ride without teammates, man against man. It's been like this. I mean, it's been the same guys we've seen in Milan San Remo in tour Flanders and in, and in Parido Benao, the first, the same three, four, five riders.

Well, the same four today were the same fours last weekend in Flanders, which is unbelievable. I mean, that is a good point. I want to ask you guys this too. A lot of like, let's just call them non racers who are, know a lot about the sport. We're saying like, why did Pogacar even work with Vanderpool? Like once he gets away, sit on him. It's like, these are, I think the answer you guys are going to say, these are big champions and they're never going to just refuse to work because it's a pride thing.

And you are like, when you're in a bike race, nothing good is behind you. Like you don't want to go back there. Like just stay once it's whittled down to the podium. Like there is merit in working with that. But would you, Johan, if George was in the position Pagatra was in with Vanderpool, would you say like, oh, sit on them and don't work like when it initially broke up or? It all depends. It all depends.

I mean, like in, in, in George's case, you know, we've never won Paris-Dubé, you know, but first of all, you calculate and say, okay, what are my chances? What do I have in the back? You know, it's like, if people come back, maybe George would have had one teammate, but other teams would have three teammates more. So it's actually in your interest to work. And then, you know, especially in a race like Paris-Dubé, it's, you know, things can happen in the final, even if you're not the strongest rider, things can happen. And once you're there with three, four guys,

it's in the interest of everybody to ride. I think George, you've been away with four or five guys, everybody was riding because it's such an unpredictable race until deep in the final that whoever is in those five can be on the podium. Yeah. I mean, we saw right before Pogatrack crashed, he still believed he can potentially drop Veynepol. I mean, he was attacking full gas, trying to drop him off his wheel. And yeah, I think he was still confident in his chances of victory. Yeah. Now, one thing I remarked, Spencer, I mean, you've probably remarked that too, because you pay attention to those details. I don't know if it's because of the way Paribas

is as a race in the end. I mean, we all know, George, you know, you remember the feeling, you know, the last 40 K, everybody's basically, they're creeping, creeping to the finish, right? It's slow. I mean, it's pushing, you know, the, um, Bogacar today looked, I mean, always, I mean, he was not arrow at all. He was really, I don't know what it is. Uh, we saw the, I saw the same thing yesterday in the women's race with Pauline Ferrand Prevot. She was like, she looked like she was going to go to the bakery or the supermarket. That is a mountain. That's how mountain bikers sit on the road. Yes, of course, of course. So that's her style. Yeah. But Pogacar was, uh, it was purely, you know,

turning the pedals and didn't try to be aero at all. But is it because there's a different setup, George, on the bike or don't think so, no? Yeah. I wouldn't think of the setups so different. You know, perhaps some guys just feel on the cobbles a bit more stable, sitting more upright. Yeah. On the cobbles, I understand, but on the, on the, and afterwards it was the same

thing. Uh, but do you notice, you guys must have noticed this when you're FU CK'd on the bike, you're not, you don't pay attention to that as much. You're just like, it's survival. I kind of, that's what I thought. Like he's just in survival mode. Like I need to sit up and get as much air in my lungs as possible. And you're not focused on being arrow.

Yeah. And plus I think we saw him stretching his back at one point to you when he, when he went to grab the, um, anti crap and cramp thing that he said he was drinking. Um, so perhaps, you know, someone was going on with his back and never know that that race does wonders on your back and every muscle in your body for that matter. So she'd never done it before. It's kind of unbelievable. Do you, if you guys, I was, I was also going to say, uh, you know, we've, we, and we've debated before party to Bay or, you know, before the season, if it was a smart decision or if it was risky for Pogacar to

do a party to Bay, uh, so much for that debate. You know, he just makes sure that he's in a position that it's actually not risky at all. And, you know, there was, there was, And he's doing Liège and Amstelgold. So this is just his story. I mean, going for Flanders and Roubaix and Liègeaz and Amstel Gold is just for a Tour de France rider.

Pretty wild. Then I'm thinking, I mean, what would Jonas Wingergaard be thinking when he sees this? How is this guy beatable? All I have to do is wait for him to crash and I'll just ride away. That's what Jonas is thinking. He's better than last year. He is, yeah. At this point, he's better than last year.

Yeah, it was funny. I was with Mauro Giannetti a bit at the finish line. And this is when these guys are already away. Vanderpult, Pogachar. I think Phillipson was still there. And I'm like, well, at least you got over the dangerous part. You should be good now. Boom, like 10K later, he crashes.

He was fine, but maybe Jinx is in there. Yeah, yeah. Should Vander Vanderpool have waited for him? No way. No way. No, no, no. I agree. The commentator with that I was watching was like, Oh, clearly he's going to wait. It's like, he's not waiting. He's going. I was thinking when Vanderpool got his flat, I wasn't thinking correctly because I was like, Whoa, Pagatra might catch him. He wasn't going to catch him.

Yeah. But if he did, it's like, obviously you blow right by him because the guy already dropped you. But I'm like, what an awkward situation that even physically awkward because you have to like squeeze by the team car. Like you can just like everything goes off the rails so fast on the, but that's what you're saying, Johan. Like you might as well work with them because it happened. Vanderpul got in flat. Like if Pagaccio had a clean race and he's on his wheel, like that's his opportunity right there. I still.

Two years ago, the same thing happened. There was van der Poel and Walt van Aert. Walt van Aert looked at least at the same level as van der Poel. And then he had a puncture on, was it on Carrefour de l'Arbre? I guess so. And you know, so that those things happened, but no, I mean,

punctures and crashes are part of Paris-Roubaix. And especially the crash of Pogacar, it was a consequence of him attacking, putting it all on the line, on the limit. Certain people say, yeah, the motorbikes confuse him. He was going too fast in the corner, that's it. And he was on the limit. You know, certain people say, yeah, the motorbikes confuse him. He was going too fast in the corner. That's it. Yeah. And he was on the limits like everybody else. And then he was on his wheel and was able to hold it up. He might have been able to anticipate that, Hey, we might be going a bit too quick. He might've let up a little

bit right beforehand. And he actually said that he looked back and he said, do I wait? And he said the gap was already, he was out of sight. He's like, I'm not waiting, let's go. Yeah, one thing I've also seen, and there you also see the experience of Anderpool, that on certain sectors, before the corners, he left a bit of a gap dissipating. It can always happen, right?

So that's something that Pogacar still needs to perfect a little bit. But hey, this kind of way of debuting in Paris-Dubé, I think it's safe to say he's going to put that one on his palm, Morris, you know, rather sooner than later. And it's great for the sport. I mean, Pogacar wins Flanders, rides away from them and then Vandenpul rides away from them in Roubaix. It just adds to the mystique of Paris-R Roubaix. I think it just adds to the mystique of Paris Roubaix, how hard it actually is and how much it actually requires in terms of bike handling skills, mental focus. I mean, everything counts in that race. You can never

let up. And then, and then we have to mention, uh, Mats Pedersen, you know, what a race. I mean, should we, uh, let's pause for some sponsors really quick and then we'll go into the best of the rest. So we'll be right back on a quick second. Everybody. This episode is brought to you by AG one. I always thought I was starting to eat better, but it turns out I was missing, missing something huge. Omega threes. I've been using my AG one powder in the morning, which is helping me supplement my,

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Don't forget to use code the move at checkout for 15% off. All right, back to the episode. So Johan, you were saying Mads Pedersen gets a flat at a terrible time, but yeah, I mean, his, his, his team car was not right behind him. Um, it was, he was, you know, relatively quickly back on, I don't know if it was a spare bike or a, or a, or a wheel, uh, but they were not right behind him. Uh, and it's also, you know, I mean, what, and George, George knows this a lot better. Uh, you know, a lot of these punctures happen because you're trying to follow some, because Pedersen punctured when he was trying to close the gap on an attack of

Pogacar. So he obviously went into the site, hits whatever. He was in a place where it was easier to puncture. So it was a consequence of a reaction on Pogacar's attack. Yeah, that's where I'd make a difference. If somebody attacked and I was like, they're going quite fast. Typically, I'd think I'd be able to corner faster than them. So I would take a bit more risk in the corner and then your line goes off and you end up where you might not want to be and you have a higher risk of flying. So I agree with you on. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, but yeah, Peterson, uh, I think we have to, you know, give and recognize that he was amazing.

He was the first guy of the, of the favorites to attack, never shies away from attacking and working. Um, he was able to follow all these moves, uh, without a problem. And then, uh, and finally he finishes a third, uh, beating Walden, art and the sprint. Um, so yeah, I mean, I think without the puncture, he would probably have been with, uh, Bogacar and then Vonderpool. What do you think? That's a tough one.

Um, but he would, yeah, like you said, he was confident. He attacked first out of those guys. He wasn't scared. He was there. Um, that was possible that he would, he would have still been there. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think he went to sprint or no? I mean, I think so. If he, if Mads finishes with those guys, you see that you see the way he sprints. I mean, it doesn't, he doesn't even try to get on someone's wheel. He knows that he's got 250 meters full gas. And if he gets up to speed, not many people are going to go fast. Yeah. The way he won the sprint in Flanders was the same today.

Same thing, you know, with Van Aert on the wheel, who is a sprinter who wins bunch sprints sometimes. I mean, it's been a while now, but he does win bunch sprint. So yeah, I think if the three been a while now, but he does win bunch print. So, um, yeah, I think if the three of them go together to the finish, uh, well, I don't know. I mean, it would have been different George. I agree with you because if Spaderson is there, then Van Der Poel has to attack also because he's not confident against Spaderson. Yeah. He would probably, uh, it would probably have been Pogacar and, uh, and Van Der Poel.

Maybe not. Do you guys remember how Matthew Vanderpool lost Flanders? He's lost this race before. If you can believe it. Velo drum sprint to Sonny Cabrelli. Oh yeah. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, on the topic of that, I texted this in our group chat. There's the, the middle class is in trouble, like not only in America, but in bike racing because Vanderpelt's done this race five times. He's won it three times.

I think he's the quickest, the three wins that I could find. Francisco Moser actually better than you remember than the kids are talking these days at school. They've forgotten about Moser. He had an impressive, I think he'd like in his first seven rubes, he won three, which is not easy. But just like to contextualize this in the last seven monuments, there's been two winners, Matthew Vanderpol and Tadej Pogacar. That's absurd. And then the last 10 one-day races, world tour one-day races that have had both Pogacar and Vanderpol, seven have been won by one of those two riders. The eighth was won by Vanderpool's teammate, Phillipson who he helped win. And then the other, the other two,

there's like two at large ones. One was Matt and Mahorich with the solo attack. The other one was Wout van Aert. So one of those was like, Wout van Aert is one of the most talented writers I've ever seen. And he has one of that 10 like, and like Pedza, Pedersen is a world champion and he's third. So everyone on the podium in this race is a world champion. Like it's, it's gotta be daunting if you're not a galactico for a lot, lack of better word in this new environment, like these guys,

there's just basically the sport has turned into a binary situation where Vanderpool wins flat races, Pagachar wins hilly races to mountainous races. And that's it. Like that's where we are at the moment. Yeah. Let's hope we get a little bit more, some, some new guys pop up here in Amstel gold and Liège. Oh, yeah. Remco's Remco's about to debut soon. So, I don't know if I would put that pressure on him to come in and

I don't know if I would put that pressure on him to come in and, oh, he doesn't mind. He doesn't mind. You know, if a guy like Remco, the way he thinks is he's going to show up and win. That's absolutely he's he's in his mind. In his mind, these guys think that they are always the best and that they always have a chance to win. How many times has he beaten Pagache? The. Times has he beaten, but gotcha.

The pressure, not many times, not many times. Probably never in a one-on-one. So Vanderpool's done, right? He's gone on vacation until the tour. He's going to be able to do a bit of mountain biking now. I like that a lot actually. Cause world is, he shouldn't go to world. It's not a good route for him. So he, it's like, I think he's going to do mountain bike worlds. Like he will do. He will do mountain bike worlds. He will. Crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He will. No, no, he it's on a schedule this year. Yeah. This year.

Clearly I used to criticize him a lot for this. I was like, he's wasting his time. Like, what are you doing? But clearly that helped him today. The thing is, the thing is, I used to criticize him a lot for this. I was like, he's wasting his time. Like what are you doing? But clearly that helped him today. The thing is, I mean, we have, I mean, we haven't spoken about pitcock yet, for example, was another talent. You know, these two guys are like, you know, top five riders in the world, let's say, right?

Top five, top six. Yeah. On, in road racing, their favorite discipline is mountain, is mountain biking. That's their favorite discipline for both of those guys. I mean, we'll talk about Pick, maybe if we have time, but someone we haven't really talked about. Wout Van Aert, pretty good finish, fourth place, so just in a vacuum, like fourth at Roubaix, fourth at Flanders, the, what do you call it? Like the chocolate double, the plastic double, but I don't know. So watching early, he was involved in the crash. Maybe I think he even went back on

and then it felt like for the next 20 kilometers, he was constantly being tailed off the back and chased back. I think he, I think he had another problem. I think he had another bike change or something. Um, I mean, we don't, we don't see everything right. But obviously it didn't start good for him. But, but what I see in, in, in what Van Aert is that he gets, he's, his form must be quite good because he doesn't break, you know, he can't follow, but he gets through the race and he gets better. And today we could see the same.

I mean, Flanders, he was struggling, couldn't follow the attacks. Then finally on the Quarremont, he was the best behind Pogacar. And today he obviously he was he was not close to these two guys, but but he was a lot better. I mean, it looked grim for a moment, because when they got into Orenburg, I didn't I didn't have high hopes for him to be even in the top 10. Well, he, I agree. He was looking, he looked like he was struggling pretty good there in the Arnberg. And yeah,

I mean, he's, you know, he's coming out of the classic. It's a lot better than last year. Um, yeah. I mean, I'm still, I'm still, I'm still, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, well we'll, we'll get there in one second before, before we say anything positive about him. He was like, always at like, he put in so much work before they even got to Arnberg, then Pagache and Vanderpool. Cause he was like, it was kind of weird, actually. He was like sitting at the back and then Matthew Brennan was almost glued to

like, I know. And I don't know. I mean, sometimes communication doesn't work perfectly, right? Because sometimes the cars are far behind. Uh, but yeah. Um, Matthew Brennan, great writer, 19 years old, amazing writer, first time Rubé. Uh, but man, he was, I don't know if he didn't look behind or because Brennan was doing the work in the, in group two and when Art was doing the work in group three, yeah, that was a bit strange to see. The whole Visma team looked, I mean, especially when you compare it to, I mean,

UAE had a pretty good day. Like they, they had a lot of misfortune. I was just rewatching the race before we did this. A lot of flats that I didn't see the first time, but they made it. They made it work. Um, like for following Vermeer was like, in theory could help a got char. If the race came back together, Alpecin was amazing. It's just like Visma was like so clunky. Like I didn't fully, it was hard to even comprehend how things had fallen apart for them so bad before they even got to the technical sections of the race. Having said all that, George, I think I criticized Vinter. I didn't understand his schedule

and why he was at training camp the last time we did a show together. Now it's kind of donning on me. Like, so he gets fourth, that's pretty good, probably a disappointment. But then he's got Amstel, like he's got bronze appeal, by the way, coming up before Amstel.

Then he has Amstel, which he could win. And then he's got to go through the zero in the tour. So it starts to make sense why he didn't start his season as early as the other guys, like he's got a long stretch ahead of him here and he does look better. Like it's not an all hope is lost situation, but I don't know, just on an emotional level, seeing how watching Vanderpool, like he's now mastered this race, like three in a row. That happens so rarely. Three in five years.

Seen Pagachar just come in like, I'll get second the first time I do it. It's like, wow. It's like almost he's gotten left behind a little bit. I don't quite understand how that happened. Is it just injuries? Yeah, I mean, well, we saw him finish the well, not finished the well, though, getting crashed out of the well, but he was, I feel like back to his best shape he had been in and, you know, for the last couple of years. And then of course, you know, he started off a little bit slow this year, but I think he's he's back on track to getting back at that form that he had in the welter and hopefully be able to compete against these guys. But he's a step below them right now. That's for

sure. Yeah, but he's tough, man. He's tough. He never gives up. You know, it doesn't, you know, it keeps going. Um, maybe, you know, what will happen in the tour if all of a sudden he's back to being the wall of an art, we're going to say, oh, wow. Great decision. The great decision to, to, to plan. You are exactly right. Yeah. We will forget all of this will be like with that. we that we ever said it was a bad idea. It's just like, Oh man, Feesim is so smart. They know what they're doing. And, and, I mean, we should remember no one remembers Vanderpool basically takes July off. Like at the tour, he's just like, I don't know what he's doing, but he's in the back of the field playing cards maybe. And then Vanderpool basically has another job, but even with

Pagache, I mean, I can't stress this enough, this is his part-time job. And then he has to go to work this summer and he's still like competing with Vanderpool. Like it's, it's hard to comprehend. We looked it up before the show. The best GC rider debut at Roubaix that we could find was Greg Lamont, fourth place, 1985. He would go on to finish second at the tour that year. So that was pretty good little double right there. Fourth at Rubé, second at the tour in theory, Pagachar second at Rubé for being honest, he'll probably win the tour. So I think that's the best Perry Rubé debut finish for a tour contender that

goes on to have a result of the tour, assuming that happens with Pagache. But that is like crazy that this is like, this is just his fun. He's having fun. And that's where the second place, little disappointing, obviously probably for them, but doesn't get hurt. He did crash, but it's Troubet. That's not a bad crash for Roubaix. Isn't hurt, gets a podium at a monument, kind of proved, I mean, maybe people weren't critical of him or I mean, there was maybe some disbelief like, can he really go toe to toe with these guys?

I mean, I was, I did, I did, I honestly did not think he was going to reach this level in Paris, Louvert. I thought he would be good, but not being like the top favorite because he was the top favorite today with together with, you know, and, and, and let's, let's be, let's be honest without the crash. Uh, they come, uh, they come together into the fellow drum of Rubé. I agree.

Well, I had a lot of doubts as well thinking there's no way. I mean, I knew that he'd be good, but they go toe to toe against these huge guys that this is their life, you know, Perez Rubé is their. And he's there the whole time, no problem with positioning. Another interesting thing is that there was no pressure from the team for him to do Paris or Bay. And they're like, look, you can do it if you want. You don't we're not asking you to do this. So this was a total personal decision by Boca Charlie. He loves to race. He loves the monuments of the sport and he's trying to win them all. I agree.

If anything, there was probably the opposite of pressure. I'm wishing he wasn't doing this. What did you guys make of this? I think Johan, you had a great before the show, you, you described the race as Mads Pedersen attacked, Matthew Vanderpool attacked, Tadej Pogacar attacked, Vanderpool attacks and wins. But what'd you think of this? It was a strange situation actually, when the VLII group, which had Phillips and Vanderpool, Pogacar, Bissinger got thinned down and then was just Vanderpool,

Phillips and Pogacar. And then Vander, like it's kind of a strange situation, similar to L lot of Kopecki yesterday where she has a sprinter, but is the sprinter really going to win? Like in knowing what we know now, Philipson was never going to make it to the finish line. Pogacar would have dropped him. Like any Vanderpool kind of dropped Philipson with that acceleration. But at that point was Vanderpool in his mind thinking, I'm just racing

against Pogacar and this is all about Pogacar and Phillipson is almost like a decoy. I think personally, I mean, I don't know what you think, I personally think that the Phillipson would have told Van der Poel already, hey, I'm running out of gas. And plus, you know, if you're three guys, the way they take turns, you feel it. You feel when somebody has a little bit more gas or less. I've seen at one point, Philipson, looking at Van der Poel and shaking his head. So they must have had some communication. Another theory could be, let's say, okay, Van der Poel doesn't want to be trapped by

team tactics, right? Because once they get over the cobbles and nobody can drop each other, then okay, then it's the Phillipson who wins. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Phillipson's been there before he's gotten second place. We got second place last year. And I really think that one that crash, I don't think I know that crash had to have taken a lot out of him. It happened right when everything was happening. All the people were fighting in a position was super fast and he had to cloud his cloud his way back and made it to the front, the main selection of the

day. So it was still an impressive ride, but clearly ran out of gas there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's freakish for a spinner. I actually couldn't believe it. It's hard to believe that he can do that. Like you can't imagine Mark Cavendish being there in the final selection at Rubé. I would imagine. I don't think unless I'm misremembering a Cavendish Rubé year, but there's no, there is no other pure sprinter in today's Peloton who can do what Phillipson did today.

Um, you know, for example, a guy like Tim Merlier, right? Um, he's, I think he's 38 or 40th or something. We've never seen him. By the way, another race of Sudak Quickstep where we haven't seen a single rider on TV. Times have changed. Well, even so, if Vanderpult drops Phillips, or Vanderpult opens it up, Pogacar really sticks the knife and drops him and hunty on Eurosport.

They're saying, well, he's not going to work. He's going to sit on it's no, he's, he's working. He's not going to sit on and say, sorry, but he did sit on for a little bit though. He sat on for a little bit to because Pogacar after, after that couple of sections, he just, he actually did a really long attack. Um, and it's not just that couple of sections. Mount St. Pavel, which is one of the hardest ones out there. And like lightly up there.

Very windy. I mean, I was actually there at that section. Like a strong, strong crosswind. And that section is just so rough. And also, George, you know, the way, you know, with 500 meters to go on that section, he Phillipson was still there at the end of the section. It was 20 seconds.

That tells, that tells you everything, right? That's like, okay. The intersection was uphill and crosswind. So yeah, he lost time quickly. I mean, I guess you do it. You, you, if you're Vanderpoole, you use them as long as you can, as an excuse. Like you get a little bit, initially he did, because he did, you, if you're Vanderpool, you use them as long as you can as an excuse. Like you get a little bit. Initially he did because he did, you know, initially Pogacar attacked and then Vanderpool did sit on and waited for him. Um, so, um, so yeah, but you know,

these guys know each other so well. And then even, even Pogacar and Phillips, and they're like best buddies, you know, they go on holidays together. I didn't know that. I'll send you a picture. I'll send you a very funny picture of, uh, uh, Bogota and Phillips and on holiday. It's the funniest picture you ever see of two cyclists. We'll put it on here. Gabriel just got work to do. Sorry, buddy. But it's funny to say that.

Cause early in the race, Phillipson crashed maybe. And then Vanderpool was talking to Pogacar. Pogacar goes on the radio and they kind of slow up. I wonder if it's like, Hey, your best friend just crashed. We might want to wait for him. I miss that. And so here's the big question I was going to, I've been waiting to ask you guys this all day. Let's say that none of the problems happen. Pogacar doesn't crash. Vanderpool doesn't flat. How is Pogacar gonna win this race? Like what was the plan behind the scenes?

I don't think, I mean, it's Paris-Roubaix, 260K. You never know. We've seen stranger things in the velodrome of Roubaix. Right, George? Absolutely. And like we just said earlier, he was still had confidence. He was still attacking full gas, trying to drop then pull off his will. Probably wasn't going to happen, but he wasn't giving up.

Yeah. Cause he had to win solo. I mean, I don't even know what happens in the velodrome, I guess, but I agree, Johan. It was hard to imagine how he was going to beat Vanderpool when he saw he was really good. We should say this ties him. He's now it's, it's feel like I say this every week. It's either Pogacar's one ahead or Vanderpool has tied him, but now they're tied for the most monuments amongst active riders. Eight each, I believe that is six, the best of all time. Unbelievable. And here's the, before we go, this is nuts. I want to leave everyone with this. This is their last eight monument finishes. This is pagachars five wins

To oh, no, everything's formatted went weird five wins one runner-up Two-thirds, I believe so that that adds up to eight Vanderpool five wins as well and then two-thirds and then he has a tenth in there that That is only there because he was working for his teammates. So unbelievable. Unbelievable. And Pogacar's not finished off the podium in his last five, last eight monument finishes. That's unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah.

So we're dealing with maybe some of the best we've ever seen here. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. It was an amazing race. I think it's always great. You know, when the favorites are the ones in the final and then, you know, the best guy won this for me, it's clear. Yeah. Yeah.

Maybe not the way we wanted to see it play out, but I think that he would have won one way or it's buddy to be Spencer. It's buddy to be as the way it is. It's like these people who get into cycling and like start covering it. And they're like, why? This isn't the perfect tour. It's like, well everyone's always hurt. What are you talking about? Never works out, but we'll let George go off and get dinner. It's late in Paris. Hopefully there's a place open. It's, it's not the small George. I'm, I'm not,

I'm not, I'm not, you know, I'm not very hopeful for you. Yeah. George, I'm not I'm not I'm not, you know, I'm not very hopeful for you. I know that. Yeah, I can show you. Or my place, probably. Yeah. All right. OK, thank you. Thank you, guys. So, so good. Bye.