THEMOVE - Pogačar cruises, Godon keeps winning & Roglič fades at Romandie | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: May 1, 2026

Spencer Martin and Johan Bruyneel go through the first few stages of the Tour of Romandie, which has seen Tadej Pogačar and Dorian Godon each win a pair of stages, as well as a few other races and news topics, like Ineos' announcement of their partnership with Danish tech firm Netcompany. They break down Pogačar's performances so far, discuss if he is under- or overperforming relative to expectations, as well as the solid ride from Florian Lipowitz behind, and speculate about what is going on with his Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe teammate Primož Roglič. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Buy tickets to THEMOVE's live show on May 31st https://www.myticketshop.be/event-details/wattage-festival-2026/777 Quince: Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to https://Quince.com/THEMOVE for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Kaleidoscope Two Percent: Listen to Two Percent wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes drop every Tuesday and Thursday.

Listen, Pogachar obviously, no, the Pugachar era is far from over, far from over. I would say more of the contrary. I personally think Pogacar is stronger than any other year he has been until now. So I think the era of Pugatja is going to be over. Probably when he decides it to be over. Probably when he loses interest. Probably when his motivation goes down. You know, after he has won the majority of his objectives,

I think that's when the Pugacar era is going to start the decline. Other than that, I can't see anybody coming close. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johann Bernal. We are going to talk about a little bit of racing news, a little bit of cycling news, and a little bit of racing action. We have the tour of Romadi going on right now. Three stages in, three, I guess actually four, because there was a prolog.

If you haven't been following, you haven't missed much because Tadipagougatia. is leading. The race has won multiple stages. He's won two stages. The other two stages have been won by Dori and Godin. So only two stage winners through the first four stages of the race. Pagotcha winning the overall ahead of Florin Lipowitz, 17 seconds back. Lenny Martinez, 26 seconds back.

Vizma's Jorgon Nordhagen at 33 seconds back. And then Little Trek 19-year-old Albert Witten Philipson at 41 seconds back. Pretty impressive. We'll also talk about today's Eschborn Frankfurt, one by one of the hosts of this podcast. You'll have to guess later in the show and Tour of Turkey as well as in addition to NEO getting a big co-sponsor with Net Company. But Johan, let's start with Romandy just because we just watched the finish.

It's top of mind. Dorian Godin win stage three. He now is five World Tour wins this year, which is more, which is as much as Arnold Dele's entire career. So having a pretty good 2026, what do you think about this race? so far. Yeah, Spencer, well, first of all, I think it's remarkable to see Tour of Romandy. You know, not, I mean, obviously, you know, there's Pogacchar's there.

Roglich is there. Lippewitz is there. But four World Tour teams have decided not to participate. You know, there's this rule. Yeah, I was wondering about that. Yeah, that you can, as a World Tour team, you can skip one race. But, you know, four World Tour teams have decided to skip. the same race. So only 15 teams, 14 World Tour teams and one pro team, which is Tudor, the Swiss team.

The, you know, so it's, it's, it's amazing to see a Peloton of only 105 riders. 15, 15 times seven is 105. So only 105 riders in the Peloton, which is not really what we're used to see in a World Two race. So Tour of Romandy, obviously, is struggling. They didn't invite any extra teams. I've heard that there are financial struggles with the race. So, yeah, that's a bit, that's a bit disappointing, obviously. But still, you know, any race who has Tade Pogacar at the start is, obviously, it's attractive. You know, it looks to me like Pugachar is going to win this race without too many problems. there's been one hard finish, hard race, hard stage, which is stage two.

Polachar attacked and did like a six kilometer, I'm not to say an attack, a sustained effort. Yes. Lenny Martinez was able to follow him. Lenny Martinez pretty good, you know, like he's the only, he's the guy that this year has been able to follow an attack. of Jonas Wingergaard in Parinise, and now follow the attack of Pugachar,

if you could call it an attack. I personally, I think, I don't know how you have seen this stage, Spencer. To me, it looked like Pogacar was obviously accelerating to make this election, but he did not go full gas, in my opinion. It was also in his own interest to keep a few guys with him

because it was still, I would say, 25, 30K to the finish. after that climb. So there was ultimately four riders, right? Together was Pogacar, Lenny Martinez, Florian Lippewicz, who came back. And then Jorgon, Nurtkagen, we talked about him a few years ago in our up-and-comer show. He's still very young, but, you know, it comes from Nordic skiing. It was an elite, world-level elite Nordic skier.

But definitely a big talent. That's the top four in G.C. now also. And Pogacha won that stage in the sprint. It was kind of, you know, logical. He did the majority of the work. Lipowitz didn't do any work, but Pogacar still won. And then I was really impressed, Spencer. I don't know about you.

Yesterday's win where, you know, there was a selection. That was 30, 35, maybe 40 riders together. But there were sprinters there. Amongst them, Dorian Godin, who you just said five wins already. and he's a sprinter and uh pogachar beat him in the sprint that was uh for the moment my highlight of the tour of romany i agree easiest easiest stage of the race and pagachar wins pretty impressive on stage on stage i guess it's like stage two technically called stage one it was definitely not going all out and i was surprised actually how much i know that i've

said pagachar is washed he's done it's the era of paul success get pagacha out of our face people I was surprised, actually. I mean, Johan, this is on Wednesday. He just wrapped up his classic season on Sunday. He's on a climb. It's top and out, 30K from the finish line headwind. Yeah, I don't think he's trying to go solo. He did not look like he was trying to drop anybody to me.

And I crunched the numbers on it. If this can be believed, my calculation, he was subthreshold. So 415 watts, 6.4 watts per kilo for almost 30 minutes. I mean, that is a hefty effort. That's a long climb. Like, I know people are going to be like, it's not even 7 watts per kilo, but just for a reference, like go to, I don't know, Jonas Finnegaard at Catalonia, you know, he's doing 37 minute climb at 6.3 watts per kilo. So it's rare you would see someone at that duration doing 7 watts per kilo. But I didn't think he was, I think he wanted people with them, right?

I think that worked out perfectly because he got over the climb. He had a group working with him. Florian Lipowitz must have listened to the show because unlike his previous stage race, he had Rogwich behind. and was not working declining to work but i don't think anyone would realistically was going to beat pagatra there and then yeah as you say stage two winning that sprint holy smokes that was impressive i mean he's probably what do you think do you think he's a kilo heavier than his normal race weight because of the classics maybe slightly more powerful i think he's a few k kilos heavier uh i don't know exactly his weight uh he said two in an interview so i guess that would kind of make sense

I would say, I would think that for the tour, he's going to be at least two kilos lighter. Yeah. You know, so obviously there's plenty of time. He knows what he's doing. It looks like this guy just has everything he does under control, except, you know, things in the race that happen, you know, certain incidents that you cannot control. But, but yeah, I mean, normally I think Pogacar is going to do a check next to, tour of Romandie, you know, check that one off his list of races he hasn't won yet. But still, you know, it needs to be, I guess tomorrow's the, tomorrow's the hardest stage.

There's a climb of about seven kilometers. They do it three times. All the stages are hard, but there's not a big, huge mountain, let's say, you know, like a super long and steep climb, like an alpine climb or something. So we're going to see the same guys again. Lenny Martinez is going to be. So I think the top three is probably already set. You know, it's going to be Poachar, Lenny Martinez, and Lipowitz.

Lipowitz, I mean, listen, I mean, you can say what you want about, Florian Lipowitz, but this guy is on a mission to be top three in every single stage race he's doing since last year already. Yeah. Since last year. So pretty impressive. It's super impressive. I mean, it's a consistency that a lot of writers, I guess he did get eighth. Oh, Garvey.

I forgot about that. Okay, well, yeah. But, yes, other than that, I mean, he's almost always top three. Super impressive. Also, you mentioned this race having financial troubles. It looks beautiful physically, like unbelievable. It looks a little budget. Like some of these stage finishes, it's like, yeah, we just like put up a little thing on a highway,

and there's 50 people here watching it. It does not look like a prestigious world tour stage race, even if... By the way, Spencer, you know, one thing I wanted to call out, I've seen, I mean, I've seen an interview of the organizer or the race director. His name is called Richard Chasseau, I think. He's been the organizer and race director of Romandie for many, many years. I don't know. I think he has raised also in the past, not sure.

I saw an interview. So he was obviously talking about the financial problems. And he said that, you know, luckily they have Pogacar. That Pocachar is coming for free because it was, he doesn't have to pay a fee. And it was great for obviously the exposure of the race. And I don't know. It was a quote from him saying that there's only been one time in the whole history of the Tour of Romandie. somebody has asked money for a rider and it was about,

it was about the participation of Lance Armstrong. I've been thinking about this and I cannot remember at all. First of all, as far as I remember, the participation of Lance Armstrong and two of Romandie has never been a discussion. It was, it simply did never fit into, his schedule. You know, we always did the classics until amssel gold race and then, you know, went on training camps and then we came back to either do Dauphine and or tour of Switzerland and another race back in the days midi

Libre or route to suit before. That was it, you know. So I would ask Richard Chasseau here publicly to show me proof of that discussion because I cannot remember at all. having ever asked a starting fee for the participation of Lance Armstrong in the tour of Romandy. It was never part of the program. Maybe, yeah, we want to see emails here. Yeah, I was like an email or, you know, whatever. I mean, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, I don't know, maybe I forgot, but I think I would remember.

Or maybe somebody else asked for, for money on behalf of Lance. I was going to say. Yeah, I would normally be, normally have been me. George Hinkapi on behalf of Lance Armstrong asking for... When did the tour of Georgia take place? Was that like June or something? Now you're asking me a good question. We'll probably be around the Romandy.

Okay. Probably May. Probably May. Yeah, no. Listen, I mean, Lance has raised the tour of Switzerland once, actually twice, because in 2010, I think he also raised the Tour of Switzerland. But yeah, and during the seven years of the Tour wins, one time he did not do the Dofine, and it was, we did Tour of Switzerland

because there was an uphill time trial in the tour, and there was an uphill time trial on purpose in the Tour of Switzerland, which is the reason why we went. Other than that, yeah, Mr. Richard chasseau, I would ask you to come with some, yeah, tangible proof that would have been somebody asking for start money for Lance. I guess it's possible. It happened before you were director while you were still racing. No, probably not.

Maybe I don't know. I don't know. I cannot imagine Lance going to the tour of Romandy. That feels like seeing a shark on a mountaintop. I was just like, hey, buddy, you want to go over? It rains almost every day. It's going to be so fun. Okay, so you bring up a good point.

I, this race, usually I'm like, man, I can't imagine getting sent to this thing. The weather's terrible. It's good this year. I heard a debate on a rival podcast, just talking about like, oh, Romandy, as you say, it's in financial trouble. There's teams not doing it. They were saying, oh, the calendar spot is bad. I don't know if I could actually think it's,

a decent little calendar spot. It's too close to the Giro. No one's going to use it for Giro Prep in modern cycling. But you usually get a decent, like if you look at the past winners, it's a decent field. It's not like, like last year it was a really interesting duel, which Valemeta, J. Vine, Remcoevinapol. Carlos Rodriguez wins in 2024. Adam Yates in 23. Garant Thomas Thomas, Thomas, Wriguez, Richie Port. That's a pretty good little list of former winners. And this year, two of the three podium, two of the France podium, I mean, first and third. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, I mean, I also think, you know, it's a Swiss race. You know, it's in the French speaking part of Switzerland. If this race has these problems, then, you know, another question I asked myself is, why does the UCI not come to the rescue? they have funds. They have a specific fund for special occasions. You know, I mean, changing the date would not be, would not be solving anything. The Tour of Romandy has been on that spot for a long time.

I think the problem is very simple, Spencer, the World Tour Calendar is overpopulated. There are too many races. There are too many World Tour races, which shouldn't be World Tour races. And, you know, finally, I mean, it's this, it's not a coincidence that four of these teams choose to take a breeder. You know, they need, they need rest. I mean, you know, it's full, full on for the classics by now. After, you know, after three, almost four months of racing, you know, there are many teams who have injured and sick riders, you know, and they simply cannot send a valid team to a race where they are obligated to go. And Tour of Romandy is now paying the price for this.

That finally, I mean, normally you would say, okay, you know, you skip one race. Two teams maximum skip one race and then there's still 16 teams. So, yeah, I mean, it's not a coincidence that four of the World Tour teams are skipping this race. That's not normal. I agree with you. I think it's a bloated World Tour calendar. Do you, is there like not some Colleen happening in 2027? Do you remember reading about this that they're going to cut?

The number of World Tour races. We'll come back to this in a future future episodes. I don't see that happening because every World Tour race on the calendar is money in the pocket of the UCI, my favorite organization. That is true. Yeah, they make money on every World Tour race. But then, you know, then I see La Partier there, you know, going there for his picture. It's just next to Lausanne, you know, but he should come up with a solution and help the Tour of Romandie to be fully funded, you know. I mean, they're, you know, it's a Swiss organization and he's in La Zan.

So it's, I mean, Tour of Romani is around Lausanne, basically. It's their home race on UCI. Kind of weird to me that there's two stage races, two World Tour stage races in Switzerland. The solution, I would think, is combine them. Well, there are, I think it would go, you know, a lot. There are other races, Spencer, that are on the World Tour calendar that should not be on the World Tour calendar. For example, the last, the race in China, whatever it's called.

Let's not beat out. It's Tuo Guangji. I don't know. That is crazy that that's World Tourism. There's other races that, you know, there's no history. There's no tradition. And, you know, they're on the World Tour calendar for a reason because they have deep pockets. And, you know, they fund the UCI very well.

Which, what would be your first cut? Would it be Tour of Guangji? Oh, absolutely. 2G has no place on the on the World Tour Calendar. You could say, okay, you know, there needs to be a race in Asia. Yeah, maybe, but. And then, you know, in Tour of Guangji, I mean, nobody wants to go there. Everybody goes because they have to go.

It's a holiday race for most of the people, you know, like riders and staff just say, okay, we have to go. So let's make it fun, having a good time, no stress. but it's not at the level of a World Tour race. And I mean, you know, you have Tour of UAE. It should not be a World Tour. As Alula, Tour of Alula, World Tour? I don't know.

No, I don't think so. I would say UAE, the racing's pretty high at UAE Tour. Yeah. The level is. Still, two down under should not be a World Tour race. I mean, taking the knives out. It is a little weird that that's a world tour race. I love the Tour.

I'm probably the number one fan of Tourdon Under. Cadell Evans Ocean Race or whatever it's called. Come on, dude. I mean, that's not a World Two race. Come on. It could not be a World Tour race. I think that's just a money wrap, right? It makes no sense that that's a World's World's Race.

Yeah. But just a few racing things to wrap up before we move on from this. So your official position is Pagatja has not washed up the fact that he couldn't drop everyone on the first master. Okay, let's go back to, you know, I saw you got a lot of grief for your comments on the last podcast by, you know, saying I think you were also you were misinterpreted because, you know, you said, well, you know, could this be the end of the Pugacar era? I don't think that's what you want to say. I think I said you can see how the era ends, I believe is what I said. Yeah, okay, but potentially you should have said you can see how it potentially ends in a few years. If you would have said that, people would have probably, you know, have understood it.

But now you said, okay, and then, okay, so listen, Pugachar obviously, no, the Pugachar era is far from over, far from over. I would say more the contrary. I personally think Pogatchar stronger than any other year he has been until now. So I think the era of Pugachar is going to be over, probably when he decides it to be over, probably when he loses interest, probably when his motivation goes down. You know, after he has won the majority of his objectives, I think that's when the Pugachar era is going to start to decline. Other than that, I can't see anybody coming close.

Listen, he's here in Ramanthes, basically it's an intense training for him, I think. You know, he did, he was full gas for Liesch. Two days later, he's in the, he's at the start of the prologue. When everybody of the classic season is saying, okay, now it's time to rest, guys. We need a rig. Yeah. Yes. It's crazy.

It's crazy, man. Yeah. Like, so he's here cruising. You know, he's cruising. And so he's going to win Romandy. Then he's going to go on an altitude training camp. And then the, he will do the tour of Switzerland. Just because he's doing this just because he's never won them, right?

Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, Switlamant is a really good race before the tour. You know, I think it's less stressful than, than Dofine. Different racing. Speeds are higher. The roads are a lot better. So the speeds are higher.

On the other hand, you could say Doffinet. I keep saying Dofine. I don't know what it's, what was it called now? Roan Alps or something. Ron Alps, whatever. Yeah. Anyway, it's the Dofine, man. Come on.

And you could typically say, okay, Dofine is probably better because it's more French style, the type of roads, you get used to the roads. The asphalt, it is different racing in France on certain roads. But still, you know, Pogacar doesn't eat. I mean, he knows how the roads are. I like his program, man. I mean, I like it. That's another thing, Spencer, which we have to take into account.

We've never talked about this. you know of all the guys who have been who are racing against him and will face him at the tour let's not forget one thing for the moment that he Pugachar is the only one who didn't do an altitude training camp yet they all went to altitude already yeah that's pretty interesting isn't it yeah you know so uh i mean man usually i mean if if he if now he finishes raman d he's not going to be he's going to have basically he's using romandy to kind of train and actively recover from his classics campaign and then you know goes to altitude and normally if you go to altitude and you stay healthy your level goes up you know you climb more you lose weight and your you know

your training is of better quality uh if once you're adapted to you know after 10 days or something i would say nowadays probably they don't have to adapt that much because they're basically all sleeping in altitude even when they're home. Yes. And that's a big difference, right? They did say at the camp, the point of emphasis was less time at camps, less time at altitude camps. That was like their big goal.

They thought they were spending too much time in altitude. Yeah. Yeah, but I'm pretty sure he's going to go to altitude between Romney and Switzerland. And then will he go back to altitude before the tour, you think? I think he's going to do recon of stages. Yeah. Okay. So not like specific camps.

camp, but you are at altitude doing that. Typically, you can't do proper recon until the end of May. Yeah. You know, because lots of passes are still closed. So I would guess he's going to go to do some recon probably before. I mean, that could also be a reason why he does choose to Switzerland, because Switzerland starts the day after Dauphinae, right? Yeah.

It's like they overlap one. day i think yeah so you know it gives you an extra week or an extra eight days at the beginning of june which you can use to go to recon you know because there are a lot of passes that open on the 31st of may at the end of may you know they most deliberately they leave some mountain passes closed like they don't take the snow away deliberately until the end of may uh so that could be you know a reason also why switzerland comes in handy because you can do the recon go altitude, then do recon of a few stages and then go race Switzerland. Good program, man.

And I feel like not enough has been made about, you know, where's Walt Vennart? Where's Matthew Vanderpult? Where's Mads Peders? Well, they're all tired from the classics. I don't feel like not enough is being made of the fact that he just finished up a classics campaign, historically successful, by the way. And then two days later, he's at a stage race doing Alpine Climes. that is pretty impressive.

Well, it's not really Alpine climbs, Spencer. The climbs are, I mean, like, nine to 10K long, though. Like the other day, like, that's a 30-minute long climb at those speeds. Yeah. Yeah. There's how many climbs actually they'll do this year that are longer than 30 minutes? Even in the tour? Well, like think of Alpdouez, like 39 minutes, right?

Yeah, the speeds they go. Yeah. Like here's like last year, two, to France. Odecom, 35 minutes. Vantu, 44 minutes. Madeline, 54. So that's a long climb. La Plange, 42, you know? So that's actually 30 minutes is a long climb. To be doing that after the classics is super impressive. But did you say what? La Planche? La Plange.

I said La Plange. Yeah, yeah. I thought you said La Plange, oh, Bellefitte. La Plagne, yeah. But these climbs are not, we would perceive them as being very long, but the speeds they go, they're actually not, the time elapsed is not super long. Other things I want to talk about, racing-wise, I would say, as you say, Florin Lipowitz, very good.

I already mentioned him. Lenny Martinez, coming along nicely, looking very good. I'm super impressed with the Oregon Nordhagen on Vizma. What's this guy? He is 21 years old. He is really good. And then Albert Witton-Phillipson 19 years old, sitting fifth overall, that's super impressive.

Yeah, no, it's super. strong. A racer, no, a racer, a guy like, I mean, I mean, plus, you know, I don't, I don't think we can consider him as even really a GC guy. Typical climber, you know, he's strong, but he's, you know, in the big mountains, I don't think he will be with the top riders. But for now, he's up there.

So, I mean, super impressive. He was already in front also at Amsterdam Gold Race. He was in that second group, behind behind the who was it but only the two riders only Evanpool and yeah he was actually playing a key role because he was kind of marking attacks out of that group yeah yeah yeah even a pool and uh matthias schkelmoza scale moza but uh but yeah i mean that's super talent you know he's been multiple times world champion in almost all disciplines i guess uh you know road cyclocross mountain bike I don't know which one he was

I mean there's one discipline he didn't win in the juniors but he was very close and you know seen as one of those super talents but yeah I mean definitely you know we're talking about sex ass it's a shame for guys like like like Winston Philipson he's super good but like it looks like okay he's non-existent because we have this phenomenon

sex ass who's you know above everybody else but yeah Super, super good rider, but strong rider. Well, just as an example of what that's doing to guys like, Albert, is someone, I heard someone say like, oh, man, kind of disappointing career from him so far. And he's 19 years old. 20, 25, this is last year. He got second behind Pagachar at Treve-Valle, Varencine,

and then third at Perry Tour. And he was crazy. At the beginning of the season, he was up there last year, and he was up there. Or was it this year? I don't remember. No, Tour Down Under. the last, you're right. In his age 18 years.

Yeah. Yeah. He was up there in a few stages like contesting the victory, basically. Yeah. You got third at Tour of Hungary as an 18-year-old. So yeah, yeah, yeah, you got to like just set Paul. What Paul Success is doing is we'll probably never see that again. So that's not a normal expectation.

Oh, that's what we say now. Maybe it becomes the norm, Spencer. I don't think it's going to become the norm. That's like saying, for Gatchar, the tour winner is going to be winning Roubae. like I just don't think that that's scalable. It's unique. It's unique. It's unique. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Any other thoughts on on Romani before? We also won't be back until midweek next week. So get all your Romandy thoughts. Speak now forever. Keep your peace on Romandy.

We might not circle back on it. No, I think, you know, I mean, it's the Pogacha show. It's clear. I mean, luckily, luckily the the course is, is not. not extremely, I mean, it's hard, but it's not unsurmountable for, you know, like guys like like Lenny Martinez, like Lipowitz. I mean, at least they're up there with him, you know. For the moment, it's still seconds, you know, and there's bonification. So which is for now, basically, what's been deciding the G.C.

So tomorrow that might change. But or the last day because it's a, I think it finishes on top of a climb, no? the last day. Yeah, it is. It is the top of the time. By the way, by the way, I just check, you know, so we have, so 2026, 2005 is when Lipowitz started to come to the front. The first time we saw Lipowitz in front of a big race was two of Romani,

2004. He finished third. Yeah. Basically in his first stage race as a professional. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I remember that. I was in Paris with my wife. I remember that and being like, I can't, sorry, can't leave the room. Lipowicz is breaking out. This kid, he's third. You remember like Carapaz won? I remember Carapaz won the final stage, maybe. Or no, second to last stage and you had this great quote where you're like,

Richard Carapaz always looks like he's going faster than he really is. Yeah. I also go Don, we should talk about him for one second. Five wins this year, all world tour level. and I'd assume he's done winning at this race. The last two stages could be just won by Pagacchar. So if you are the only other rider at a race to be winning other than Tate Pagaccha, you're doing pretty well. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, great signing from Ineos and great for Godon. You know, I mean, it takes courage as a French rider and on top of that being the national champion. to leave a French team to a foreign team. It's usually in France, it's not like it. People don't like that. The media doesn't like it. You're supposed to stay with the French champion jersey.

You're supposed to stay in a French team. But Godin didn't listen to that. And he made a great choice, man. I mean, his career, he stepped up his level. I mean, he was already a super good rider, but, but yeah, I mean, really, really great season so far. Yeah, he's actually won two stages at Romandy in 2024, the race you were talking about with Floyd and Lipowitz.

It's kind of weird he left DeKathlon because DeKathlon was a team on the rise. I don't know what happened behind the scenes there, but it's impressive Ennio Scada because it'd be easy to stay at DeKathlon. I would imagine maybe there was shaking. I don't know, maybe they were shaking things up and he didn't feel like he was being prioritized enough, but wow. Yeah, there's another guy who, I mean, he's already at the end of his career, but the same thing, you know, like Bruno Armiral, you know, he's,

he was a really solid writer for Decathlon and he left for Visma. They didn't seem to, you know, fight a lot to keep him. I did have a source tell me inside of DeKathlon that the team, was prioritizing it was youth above everything else so like don's 29 yeah like maybe they thought we don't want him he's too old I mean yeah when not at any cost right I mean that's also something we don't know right I mean the amount of these contracts we don't know go don't obviously you know if you go to Ios it's his salary will be higher than he had it was a decathlon and then it's kind of also easier for a team like decathlon to say okay you know what we would

like to keep you, but we won't match that offer. And if it's more than 50% difference, you could give him a little raise, but if it's 50% or more of an increase, and I suspect that's at least the case for Godin, then they say, okay, you know what, thank you very much. You know, it was nice working together, but we want, we want you to take that offer from the other team. Yeah. You do kind of wonder, like, how much do you value, like, what's the value of his contract? Let's just say he doesn't win another race all year and he wins five World Tour races. Probably not many. Like even I'm looking right now, the riders that have won more pro races than him are Paul

Sixuss, Rimcoevinopol, Jonathan Malon, Pagachar, Vindigard, Del Toro, Schmid. All those guys on big money, Schmid, probably to be on big money in the near future. Well, I mean, and also, you know, how many of those, how many of the current riders on Enos have won five world two races? How many? Not many. I mean, how many riders on Ineos have ever in their career total won five world tour races? I mean, there's been a few in a few historically. But, you know, it's not easy to win in today's cycling.

You know, so listen, great, great, great signing for both of them for Ineos and Godon. And he's not finished. She's going to win more races, this guy. And, you know, the thing is also like, you know, at the races he is. in the stages that suit him, he gets the whole support of the whole team behind him, which is, you know,

obviously great for the confidence and also, you know, pressure to deliver. I felt bad for them on stage two, do a lot of work and then. Yeah, well, I don't know if you noticed today.

By the way, I don't know if you saw. I mean, I don't know what's happening in this race. There's a guy who has been in front, I mean, of some of the stages. I mean, today he, today, Valentin Paraparentre.

Yeah, he got third in the sprint. He's a sprinter now. Yeah. He's a sprinter now. I think yesterday he was up there also. Like, he was top 10 at least. He was fifth in that sprint. I mean, that's pretty, I mean, if you see, I mean, visually, if you see Volantyampere

Pantera, if there's one guy, you can say, this guy cannot sprint, it's him. Well, it has been a hard race. And someone, someone said to me. They're like, do you think he is the highest 22nd watt per kilo in the world? It's possible he does, right? So if you're accelerating that little mass, I mean, the guy weighs. Yeah, but not on the flats, Spencer. On the flats, it's, it's, it's, well, these have also been deceptively kind of uphill finishes too.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But what's for kilo on flats is, is, you know, you have to put things in perspective. It's, it's less important. It's pure, more the pure power than the watts per kilo. They have, they have been.

tougher finishes, I think, than they look on TV. But it is crazy, though. He's a fast rider. It is wild how well he's doing these. Pretty good at positioning also. You have to be good at positioning. I mean, in smaller groups, which tends to be the case in Romania.

I mean, it's not a coincidence that there are almost no sprinters here. You know, they saw the stages say, okay, we're not going there. No chance we can sprint. I mean, that's the value of having a guy like Gvdon, though, because he can go and win these sprints. I don't know if you saw it today.

He got overtaken by Finn Fisher Black and then came back, which is really rare to see. You almost never see that. Yeah. Hard to do. Actually, let's take a quick break. And then I have one more question for you about Roman D. And then we'll move on from this race. This thrilling race so far.

All right. We'll be right back. Everybody, this episode is brought to by 2%. What if the key to living better isn't about making life easier? From New York Times bestselling author and journalist Michael Easter, 2% is a twice weekly podcast exploring the science of living better. by doing things the hard way. From mental toughness to movement, ancient wisdom to cutting-edge science,

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So, Johan, one writer we've not mentioned so far, Primo's Rogwich, lost time on stage two. He actually had a good prologue. In the prologue he finished, this is a must-watch race. By the way, it's three and a half minutes. Actually, super interesting. You rarely see a race that short in pro cycling. He finishes an eighth, just one second behind Pagotcha in the prolog. So I'm thinking, hmm, Primos is.

He's got something cooking here. On stage one, which has been the hardest stage so far, he finishes 21 seconds behind in that group. Looks pretty good. Stage two, he loses minutes. Yeah, I don't know what happened. And then today he loses a bunch of time. So he was dropped very far from the finish after working for the. It looks like he's working for the team.

But do you have any insight into what's going on there? No, I don't know. I mean, obviously, you know, if he was top 10 in the prologue, it means he was in good shape. Already on stage one, Spencer, you know, he's the one who started to set the temple before. No, actually he, no, he followed Bogacha first. He followed Pugachar. Yeah. And, you know, after 500 meters, he saw that, you know, he couldn't, couldn't follow that pace, you know, took his own pace and then wasn't able to.

And then they were, for a while, they were together with Lipowitz. And then he got dropped from Lipowitz. Lipovitz bridged up to Bogachar and Primos got in the second group, in the second. But anyways, I don't know what happened in the meantime. I don't know why he lost time yesterday. he was working already. He was on the climb before the finish. He was the guy who started to set the pace with the intention to drop Dorian Godot.

Which initially they got, I mean, they got there. Godon got dropped that came back. But Primos didn't come back. So he did the job and then set up, I guess. Yeah. I mean, this course is hard too. like there's a lot of these climbs it's like yeah you're going to drop kodan but then you've got this long or long run to the finish line and like how realistically how strong is your team and

how many resources are you willing to deploy to keep them off and go down strong he's not going to stay off the back it must also be spencer that he's not feeling 100% otherwise i don't think primos would sacrifice himself on stage two with for the possibility to maybe win and it's very unlikely to win with Finn Fisher Black. So there must be something off. I mean, another guy we haven't talked about, Spencer, there's definitely something off with him, is Oscar only. You know, did the prologue and then didn't start stage one, I think.

And he did publish some data like his, the way he, I mean, he was not recovering. There's something off. You know, he said, he put out a statement that he was super disappointed to let everybody down but you know and he published data like everything was really good he had some of his best numbers and then all of a sudden there was a drop in the graph you know it was all green and then all a sudden it turned red i don't know if you saw that uh so obviously something something's off there time to go back to the drawing table first of all do some tests i guess to see what's wrong physically and then start obviously a new program because you know uh

I guess only the fact that he was at Romandie was also with a purpose to get some more base and then probably go on altitude. So they have to they'll have to reconsider that. Yeah, I do wonder about a guy like that because last year he was talk, he was super important. He was the most important rider to their team like by point scored than anyone in the, anyone else in the sport. But not a lot of pressure externally. If you think we never before race were like Oscar Onley, what's he going to do? It was all like, wow, Oscar Arlene is doing so good. And I do kind of wonder what that experience is like when it's flipped.

And you're going into every race and everyone's saying, oh, six million euro man. How's he going to do? Like, that's got to be hard. I would imagine. Six million to buyout. That Spencer's not the salary. Yeah, the buyout. Yeah.

This is a significant buyout. But yeah. It's a little pressure. Way to go picnic post an L. just spinning deals over there. Moving on to Eshborn Frankfurt, World Tour, One Day Race, Johan, former winner,

just a mere 30 years ago, is that right? 35. This morning I got remembered, reminded, you know, through memories that show up on your Facebook page. You know,

I'm old, so I still have a Facebook page. Yeah, you're on, you're on face, crunching Facebook every morning. No, not crunching it. But, you know, I got the notification and said,

Oh, it's the first of May today. So I got the pictures. I reposted them for people who want to check them out. Yeah, 35 years ago, man, that was, yeah, back then it was, it was a World Cup in the World Tour didn't exist. It was a World Cup race. It was kind of the last race of the classic season. You know, it was like the, whoever had failed in the classics had like an opportunity to show

themselves again. Yeah, in 1991, so 35 years ago, I was fortunate to win that race. I got a message this morning from an ex-teamate, mate of mine sending me the screenshot. We had three lotto riders in the top five. So I won, Moseu was second, and Sammy Morales, who sent me the screenshot, was fifth. And then we had another rider, Serge Baghe, who unfortunately is not amongst us. us anymore in 10th place. So four lotto riders in the top 10 in that race was a pretty good day.

Yeah, I mean, that's a big one. It's a beautiful area too. I mean, Frankfurt not known as you probably aren't going to go on vacation to Frankfurt, but this race always makes it look fantastic. And today I think compared to the, I mean, now it's not called Frankfurt. Back then it was called Frankfurt and it was called Rundum der Henningerturn. So there's a big tower in Frankfurt, the Henningerturn. And it was basically the local circuits were around that tower.

They changed it now. But I think compared to the last few editions, they made the course harder. They put in an extra climb in the final circuit. And I mean, there was, it was really, it was a nice race. I mean, it was suspense until the end. It looked like the breakaway was going to make it. Then, you know, it was, they came back. But then ultimately the Peloton or whatever was left from the Peloton actually didn't.

make it back because the top 10 is still the 10 riders from the breakaway and then the next guy is basically on the wheel but the first of the peloton yeah won by georg Zimmerman German champion again lotto so lotto has a few a few wins in that in this race already and yeah tom pitcock second you know getting his form back I would say you know bit by bit after his crash in Catalonia and then Van Toulet, great spring of this rider. I mean, he was strong. I think he was the strongest rider in the race,

got third. So yeah, great podium. Great for German cycling. I mean, to have a German rider win one of the two most important races in Germany, that one in Hamburg. And then on top of that in the national champions, German champions jersey, that's pretty cool. Yeah, first German winner since 2019, Pascal Ackerman.

and I don't know if the race has gotten better because like just going back to it's Ackerman. The winners are Ackerman. Christoph, Christoph, Christoph, Christoph. Oh, wow. Since COVID, the racing's been pretty incredible. Like, it's always this situation where you have a strong breakaway getting caught by a super reduced Peloton. The course design seems to be very good. Like, whatever they've added has made it incredible.

So it was a thrilling race coming into the finish. Yeah, it's cool to see a German rider winning the, maybe. be the biggest second biggest german race one of one of the one of the history historically it's the it's the it's the oldest one of the two hamburg is newer yeah and hamburg i guess you kind of you can get a big field some are you getting a strong field because of where it is on the calendar but yeah when i think of like the biggest german race one day race i would think of frankfort um pitcock looks good i thought that was a pretty good showing from him coming you know he was good it to where the Albs, Liege, bad luck, and probably a little undercooked because of the injury.

And then today, that's a hard race. You know, and he's in the front in that breakaway and then get second in the sprint. Pretty impressive. Yeah. Listen, Pitcock is a racer, you know. I mean, these kind of races, that's like Pitcock's ideal terrain. He's punchy. I think there were two riders in front.

It was Ben Toulitt and then this French guy from EF. I always forget his name. Oh, it's actually a really good guy. writer. This guy is Alex Bodan. Alex Bodan. Yeah. So they were gone and then Pitcock, you know, in typical pitcock fashion, you know, flashed towards those two guys. And then, yeah, then some other riders came back. I mean, Zimmerman won. He was definitely not the strongest rider of the race. But, you know, he chose his moment. And yeah, good win, man. It's the Ekoi arrow helmet.

That's how he won. You got to run out and get that helmet. it today. And I was just, yeah, nothing else, right, to tie up on this race. He actually, if you recognize this guy, it's because in 2024, he, I still think about this tour stage. He just missed out on a tour stage when two, no, no, 2020. Three, was it? Yeah, second two.

He was on intermarsche, no? Yep. And so he was part of like the Intermarshae group that merged with Lotto. Pello Bill Bow beat him in a tour stage in 2023 from a breakaway. but who was Peirub Bilbao again was also in the breakaway today I know dude he is he gets fourth today I mean the two Basque riders

the two Basque old riders who retire at the end of the year him and the two brothers there what are their names Oh Izagiris Izagira yeah Izagir they have this I mean they have a good season man Isagira has a great season I mean great spring year I always didn't about this

No retire at the end of the season. Like Bill Bowles, sixth at liege, he's retiring. Got to be hard to retire when you're that good. Yeah, no, I don't think so. I don't think so. You know, they have families. They know what they can do, what they can't do. And, you know, they've seen it, man.

I mean, I don't think anybody, I mean, the rumor is that in, in, in, in, in, in Confidis, they're, they're trying to convince his Aga to do another season. there's no way. I'm done. I'm done with this. I mean, the money, to me, the money would be hard to turn down. But I guess if you think like I just, I cannot do this process again to be as good as I am now, then the answer is clear. You can't do this only for the money.

I mean, some of them probably can. But usually normally, I mean, it's hard, man, to wake up in the morning and knowing it's your last season and you don't really want to do it. But you decide it because of the money. it's it's it's going to be a long season man no matter how long how good the money is it's going to be a very long season that's what fdj is for go to fdj yeah back in the days uh back in the days israel yeah yeah that that that is how the team started it was a retirement team basically and they've they're pretty good now um i feel like yeah it used to be more common you'd see guys just totally check out be like three or four years of a big deal just hanging out yeah not really doing

that much. Harder to do that in today's cycling. But another race, tour of Turkey going on. It's kind of been an odd time. If you're in the U.S., it's on a little bit earlier because it's further east. But the winner, the current leader of the race is a guy. The race is not finished yet. Yeah, the current leader, not the winner.

And he's not one of stage yet either. But the leader of the race is Seb Berwick, who we've talked about just a few weeks here. He was on Cahoo-Roll. he's only leading though even even Sosa on Equipo Kern Farma by five seconds who won a mountain stage a few on stage three

I frankly had forgotten that this guy was racing Johan I did not know he was still in the professional Peloton so it's been a it's been I mean he's had some issues he's had some physical problems I mean you know this was this was supposed to be

the equal of Eganbernal you know they both came from they both came from the team of Johnny Savio was it called Androni Giacotio Gondoni

Giacotoli They went both together to into Was it Ineo? Was it Sky still? I don't know. It was in Eos, no?

It was the first year of Enaos. Maybe switch names midseason though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think they actually switched names in Romandie,

if I'm not mistaken. In Romandy. It's an impressive memory if that's right. Yeah. I think the first time we saw Ineos was in the Tour of Romandy. You can look it up. But, yeah, Sosa is pure climber.

You know, if you see him, he's super light. Had a few really good wins. I think he's a double winner of the Tour of Burgos, if I'm not mistaken. And, you know, kind of faded away a bit is now on Kerenfarmah, won that the super hard mountain stage was very hard. He won that. And Sebastian Berwick was second there. He came back from quite far behind.

By the way, the family of this writer, Sebastian Berwick, are listeners of our show. Thank you very much, family Berwick. You know, 26 years old on Kacharural was, I think he was two years on Israel at first. And now is in his second year at Kacharural. is going to race the Tour de France. Is that confirmed or we're just assuming that he's going to race the Tour de France? I mean, Gajaroal is racing the Tour. I mean, they cannot let their best climber.

That would be a odd choice. Definitely. I mean, if he's not racing the Tour of the Tour de France, I'm going to call their manager. I know, I know the manager. But yeah, I mean, it looks like he's the strongest climber right now. so most likely he will he's only five seconds ahead um if uh i think today he got second and sosa got passed on the line by jordan jagat yep you got 10th of the tour last year by the way and yeah and berwick's not it would have been uh two seconds i guess because he would have

gone four seconds he lost four seconds yeah yeah so it would have been one second yeah yeah um So yeah, not over, not over, but also two stage wins for Tom Crabe in the sprint. And then another stage for Van Uden, I think, Casper Van Uden, who won another stage in the sprint. This is a guy who won the Giro stage last year. Last year. On picnic post-NL. And then today's winner is an Italian writer. I forgot his name, come from the breakaway, no?

Yeah, oh man, I'm going to butcher this poor guy's name. His name is, this guy gets a huge win. Oh, no, no. So Christian Bagatan. Bagotan. Italian names that don't end in a vowel always throw me off. Bagatan? Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. This team I've never heard of, MBH Bank, CSB Telecom Fort. And it appears to be from Hungary? I don't know where the team is from No, Italy. No, not Italian team. No? It's the flag is flipped.

So it looks like an Italian flag, but it's the other way. Okay, that it's Hungary. Hungary, crazy. Yeah. And I don't know if you saw, but I'm thinking about picnic personnel. So Casper Van Uden wins that stage. Is that the first time they won a stage since? No, it was their first win of the season.

first win since the tour of Switzerland, right? I don't know. Definitely their first win of the season. That team is not good, man. That team is really good. I mean, it's not a good team. Wow. Yeah, since June of last year.

Holy smokes. But did you notice that I thought they were going to do it? Modern Adventures, Pro Cycling, Stage 1, I believe. Was that stage one? Didn't they get second? They got second. Like a close second to Kofidus. It was the riders.

Anilkovsky, no, the Polish rider. Yep. Riley Pickerel is the one who got second. It was, I thought for sure they had it. It would have been a big win for those guys. Yeah, because they haven't won a race yet, no, so far? I don't. Wait, is that true?

Well, yeah. They won South African Time Trail Championship. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah. Which I don't really count national championship. because sometimes it can be a shoe-in. It would have been a big deal for them. I think that's it on the tour of Turkey.

I'm curious to see what happens over the last two stages. If SEPBer can hold this off, that would be a big result for him. Yeah, for sure. I think he's going to do it. He looks like he's on the up and then Sosa. I mean, obviously great morale now. Also a really good team, good help in the mountains for him. He has like two really strong support riders.

It's a good. Howard Rawls a good team. I mean, listen, there's a reason why they got invited to the Tour de France because they were the first in the classification of all the illegible pro teams except the ones who were automatically qualified, you know, like Tudor and Q36.6.5. And which other team? Two doors. Q36.5.

And then the other team would have been. Hold on a second. How can we not remember? Well, do you know X? No, but then they provide. Well, they were automa. Well, they're World Tour. Oh, it's Kofidis. Coffitis.

Oh, God. Poor Kofidis. I don't even remember them. Yeah, you're right. They're first. The first team of all the other teams that were in the running for a spot. And that's why they got selected. I mean, fair and square. Well, can you think it?

So Unabat is doing this. I believe the Rockets, the Tatuma Rockets. Can you think of a team whose first grand tour was the Tour de France? I don't think I can think of one. Probably going to say U.S. Postal. Their first grand... 19996. How did that go inside the team?

Was it 96? No, it not 96. Was it 98 or 97? I don't remember. But it was definitely their first round tour. Okay. I can't imagine that to rest for success. It was also, you know, was the only American team and that was the reason why they got selected. That was before I was a DS there. Well, yeah, you were still racing in 96. Professional writer, right? Yeah, I do remember, I don't think in 96 they were in the tour. I don't think so.

No, they were not. They were not. 97 they might have been in the tour i do i am 100% sure they were in 98 i also was still racing my last year and i remember they were in the tour i think they even got six they almost on stage uh tyler hamilton got second in a time trial if i'm not mistaken behind yon o'urick and i think they all they had a rider and a breakaway and then john cyril robin finished uh sixth in the gc Dang, you're right. Dang. Dang.

I'm right. It still works. That's a pretty good memory. Sixth of the 1998 Tour de France. Yeah. Wow. Crazy. Now, you're taking me back.

You know, who got 10th at that race overall? In 98? Yeah, you know this guy pretty well. You know his dad very well. Axel Marx. Yes. On Pulte. They're back.

It's cool to see. On cycling. is what we'll do net company eneos last i just want to give people a heads up jir de talia we got some we're going to do a real jrero preview next week a little bit of bad news i don't think this was shocking to us johan you called this um last time we saw him raised joel am made it something's not right he's not doing the jirotatia he was really the only writer i thought that could have challenged yonis vinaigard for the title yeah that's also to take with a grain of salt could you have challenged him i mean he pushed him pretty hard at the first

Alta. Yeah, but to me it looks like Jonas is super well prepared now for the Giro. The Vuelta last year was a, you know, appendix of Jonas after the tour. Didn't go to altitude. Didn't go to altitude. Yeah. I'm a state at home. You know, that was not the best Jonas.

And he still won pretty dominantly, especially, you know, in that last stage, that last mountain stage. But anyways, yeah, go ahead, Spencer. We also lose Mika Landa and Richard Carapas. Richard Carapaz with a cyst in a not great area, I think a Perinean cyst. And then Landa with a pelvic fracture, apparently as a consequence of the crash in Tour of Catalonia. Yeah, I had missed that. Yeah. Well, I mean, they saw it later.

I mean, they didn't see it initially. It came. It came. Yeah. Yeah, not great. Yeah. So these guys are out. They're not coming.

Let's just say Jonas is the favorite, for sure. Who's second and third in this race now? I think Pelizari and Jay Hindley, both from the same team on Red Bull. Belzziari is in great shape, Italian, you know. And then Hindley, ex-winner, also looks in pretty good shape, was in the final present in the final of Liesbast. on Liesche and then you know he hindley is a Giro rider he's gotten second and first already in this race um I actually don't know if he didn't get second twice that's a great question so he got second to

uh teo gagan carap so he got second twice he got second to carapas and second to teoggenhart and won it also wait when did he get second to car no no no no no he won against carapas sorry sorry yeah yeah he won yeah yeah so he got one one time second one time first yeah yeah yeah um and then i i would imagine so pelazari i agree pelizari's going to be great jai henley looks looks great excited for him how do you think what's egan bernal's ceiling at this euro a agon bernal is you know good shape is this the best agon bernal we see now uh i would say you know he could be a candidate for the podium You know, I mean, he's, he's been up there. You know, he was fifth at Leash, right, also, which is, I mean, pretty good indication of a

a race that actually is not his preferred terrain. I mean, he was third, I think in a second in tour of the Alps. Was he second or third? He was second, right? Because he left. And then, Aronsman was third. So Aronsman is also racing the Gero. That's a really good duo.

Bernal and Aronsmann. And then you have Adam Yates, I think, who's obviously going to be now the leader of UAE, I think. No Yates brothers, no Yates brother can win this year to tell you. Come on. These guys at this age, no, you're right. You'd be a fool to write off Adam Yates. I'd forgotten he was doing this race.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I haven't gone through. I mean, we're going to go more in detail in the preview. but those are the names that come out in my mind like immediately. But, you know, I can't see anybody get close to Jonas, honestly. Yeah, we'll talk about it more in the preview, but I think you're probably right there. I think we're watching for the for the podium.

But, you know, I get, you know, we would have said the same thing. We would not, you would not have guessed Simon Yates would have won last year, Gero. The Gero is a weird race. Weird stuff can happen. But yeah, you're right. Jonas is a very good writer. Hard to imagine him losing it. Last bit of news we have, Enios Grenadiers announced new title sponsor, Net Company.

I think we talked about this already. It's kind of been brewing for a while, but a hundred million euro deal over five years, so 20 million euros worth of funding per year. That's big for the team. And they also want to integrate their, it's like the company, this is like the company's logline. The company provides end-to-in IT services from development through to maintenance and operations to public and private organizations throughout Europe. They basically like run logistics at places like Heathrow and the Munich Airport.

I believe they got their start at the Copenhagen Airport. I would imagine they, you know, let's say like you can imagine, think how complicated it gets. Oh, planes late at Heathrow. And then you have all these knock on effects and they have a technology service that helps you organize all of that. They have an AI platform, Pulse AI, that they want to use to help the team train and be better and win the Tour de France.

I have a way to win the Tour de France, Johan. I'm not going to reveal it here, but I have a secret to winning the Tour de France, and it involves giving one or two riders many, many euros per year to race for you. Well, I mean, it would probably mean, the next question is, well, first of all, I mean, this AI, obviously, you know, it's the future.

I mean, it's not the future, it's the present, right? But I was thinking when I read that, I said, is this going to be the new Dave Breltsford show blowing smoke? You know, like marginal, the inventor of marginal gains is now going to bring the team back with AI. Is that going to be the story? I think what should happen is probably we don't know if it's an option or not, but, you know, net company being a Danish, it's Danish, right? Danish, yes. Being a Danish company is get Jonas Wingergaard on the team.

That would probably a spark move for his next contract. I don't know how long. I think Jonas is probably pretty tight with Fisma and likes it there and is treated with a lot of respect. So it would be difficult. But I think that would be probably something to consider. And then also, I mean, it would go full gas after post excess. That's, you know, yeah. Those are the two riders that would go after to, you know, to have a shot at winning the tour.

Because with the guys they have now, they're not going to win it. No. And that company, a lot gives them the financial muscle to do that. I would say, the question is, Spencer, the question I have is, okay, you know, the numbers that are out there is 20 million a year for five years. Then my question is, is this on top of the budget? Or is this, because, you know, Jim Ratcliffe has given the title sponsorship away. And we all know that Ratcliffe pays a lot more than 20 million.

You know, reportedly it was 50 million per year that Ineos or Ratcliffe paid to the team. Is this 20 million on top of it? Or is this 20 million less that Ratcliffe pays? Because, you know, he's not, I mean, he's rich, but he's not stupid. You know, he's, yeah, yeah. You know, so you would say, okay, you know, I'm going to, I'm still going to pay 50 million. But by the way, somebody who pays 20 million is going to take the name away. On the other hand, you could mean we don't know what the, you know, the behind the scenes business deals are.

You know, as we all know, Radcliffe has a lot of companies. They're probably crossover business. Same as he has with total energies, right? it's not a pure sponsorship deal. There's internal business between Ineos and Total Energies. And they use the team to kind of facilitate that also. So we don't know if now, if reportedly the budget of the team was 50, is it not going to be 70?

That changes the whole game. I am tempted to think that's not going to be the case. That they're going to get some extra budget, but Radcliffe is also going to pay. Yeah, I think you're right. So you can go look their budget up. If you're a British company, you have to publish all your books. So it'd be like 50 million euro budget, but you got to think like a bike company puts a lot of money.

They have these secondary tertiary sponsors that put a lot of money in. Ratcliffe, let's just say Ratcliffe is putting in 35 million a year. I don't think, as you say, I don't think the budget is just going to jump up 20 million because what would you even be spending that on? I think it just gives them the flexibility to Ratcliffe doesn't have to spend as much of his own money. And oh, if this rider that can win the Tour de France is now available, they can write a check if they need to. Like they've got just a little bit more flexibility, I think is the idea here. Yeah.

Yeah, I think you're right. And we also, we're not going to litigate. How are they going to use AI? Is AI going to change the game? But I will say on the marginal gain, some of the stuff, if you really think about it, It was just low-hanging fruit that they're picking. Nobody ever cooled down after bike races before Team Sky. So I think it's just going to be about that, like picking off this low-hanging fruit

that people are overlooking or they're, you know, because cycling is like blind to some stuff. Like, that's crazy to think. Nobody cooled down. And the team actually had a hard time getting riders to do it because they'd get made fun of for it. But they got, listen, they were pioneers and a lot of stuff in skin suits. I mean, skin suits, yeah. Before Team Sky, I tell you,

these guys, when they showed up with skin suits at the beginning, they were laughed at. I am 100% sure. I mean, I remember how it was back in the days. You know, if you would have shown up with a skin suit at a road race, they would say, where are you going, man? What is this? You know, I mean, I saw, I mean, maybe we can post the picture in,

you know, when we talk about, about Frankfurt. I saw the picture and my jersey when I won Frankfurt. You should see this, Spencer. It is a parachute. It was like a wet, windy day, right? Yeah.

I mean, it's crazy. You know, it's crazy. And we, we, we thought it was normal. You know, jerseys had to be loose because, you know, they couldn't be too tight because you couldn't breathe. You know, it was, it needed to be. It was unbelievable.

I mean, we didn't, I mean, 42 or 44 centimeter handlebars. You know, Sky later in ENAOS, they changed a lot of things. I mean, that's for sure. But, you know, we'll see. We'll see what this AI, I think this AI announcement is also obviously a marketing tool. AI right now is at the fingertips of everybody. if you really want to use it.

You can use, there's a lot of different programs and companies who offer those services. Well, Visma has a deal with an AI company now also, no? It's a French, a French AI company. And there's a larger political component here that we won't get into. But you say there's a lot of different AI platforms you can use. There's not many that are European. And there's a big kerfuffle in the UK right now because you have like Palantir, which is a Denver-based company in the U.S.

And they have all these contracts in the U.K. But then there's this concern of like, do we just have to do whatever the U.S. says because their AI companies now control everything. So there's this big movement to have autonomy and AI in Europe. And net companies are like one of the leaders in that. So I'd assume that's why they're doing it. Part of the reason why they're doing the sponsorship,

trying to get out, advertise themselves as a way for Europe to have AI autonomy and not be reliant on the U.S. Great, Spencer. Before we, before we leave, I have somebody who is here. He abs, me, he was, he was, you know, crying here. He wants to come on the show. It's Bobby. Hey, Bobby, Bobby's back. Just to close off. What type of dog is Bobby again? This is a, it's a dachshund. It's a miniature dachshund. I mean, there's three different sizes.

It's a long-haired caninchen. Caninchen is the German word for the small rabbit. And so this breed, I mean, what I've been told, it's been, it's been bred in, you know,

like a few hundred years ago to, to chase rabbits into rabbit holes. So it's a very, it's the smallest size of dachshund, long haired. Okay. Hey, I think I've said this on the show.

Got to get Bobby over to my yard. Get some of these rabbits in the control. They're like out of control over here, man. Well, thanks, Johan. And enjoy.

Your time with Bobby this evening. Do you have anything else to add? That's it. We'll see each other next week for the preview of the Giro. Yeah, and the Giro starts on a Friday, which is really disorienting. So we'll be back mid next week. Also, before we leave, before we forget, we will, the last day of the Girod, we're doing a live show in Belgium at the Wadage Festival in Austin, Austin, not Austin, Texas,

Austin, Belgium. I'm going to say it properly. It's the Wielerwattage Festival. So it's a tree. Three-day event. And on Saturday, Sunday, there's a lot of different shows. And we've been invited with the move to do a live podcast on the main stage of the Rueva Tage Festival in Belgium at the Belgian coast.

And whoever wants to attend in person, I guess we're going to put the link in the show notes, right? Yes, there'll be a link to buy tickets in the show notes. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, thank you so much. And we'll be back next week with our Giro. you. Okay, thanks, Spencer. Okay, bye.