THEMOVE - The Big Three Battle at Criterium du Dauphine | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin discuss the recent racing at the Tour of Slovenia and answer a few listener questions before previewing the upcoming showdown between the three big Tour de France GC contenders, Tadej Pogačar, Jonas Vingegaard, and Remco Evenepoel at the eight-stage traditional Tour de France prep event, the Critérium du Dauphiné, which kicks off this weekend. Manukora: Now, it’s easier than ever to try Manukora Honey. Head to https://MANUKORA.com/THEMOVE to save up to 31% plus $25 worth of free gifts with the Starter Kit, which comes with an MGO 850+ Manuka Honey jar, 5 honey travel sticks, a wooden spoon, and a guidebook! ● That’s https://MANUKORA.com/THEMOVE to save 31% plus $25 worth of free gifts.

The big headline is the contenders are Tadej Pogacar, Jonas Vindegaard and Brimco Evenepoel. So the three favorites for the tour are the three favorites for this race. Yeah, it's kind of unique, you know, to see them racing together and against each other before the tour. You know, normally one would choose the Tour of Switzerland, the other the Dauphiné, the other would, you know, do the training camp and then another race. So the fact that the three of them are there will be interesting. Everybody, welcome back to the move plus.

I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johann Bernal. We are breaking down a little bit of racing from the week, a little bit of news that's come out from the Giro d'Italia and most importantly, talking about the Criterium du Dauphiné, which kicks off this weekend. The mini, mini Tour de France of sorts, but it has Tadej Bogacar, Jonas Vendégarde and Remco Evenepoel all facing off. Enough with the silliness. Now, now, now the, the big stars are racing and we can fully shift our focus to tour to France stuff. But Johan before, before we get into that,

let's let's tie up a few loose ends from the Giro d'Italia. I, you had an interesting, a really interesting anecdote about we were talking on, I believe it was, it was the stage 20 podcast about why we had riders working for, I think we had a little check rider working for Simon Yates when he was away on the Finestra. And then we had Dries de Bon from Decathlon working for Richard Carapaz.

We couldn't quite figure out why exactly that was. You might have new information on that. That's quite interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was two riders that we said, hey, what's going on here? And especially, Dries de Bond, Decathlon, AG2R, who got caught from the break, started

to pull on Colle di Finestre for Carapaz. I said, what's going on? So he tried to find explanations. You know, initially I thought that it was because Van Aert had sprinted against him in this inter-gero sprint classification, which de Bond was leading. Now that turns out not to be true. Actually, de Bond himself in an interview said publicly, and now we know the reason why he started pulling. So apparently he doesn't have a contract yet for next year, which is, I mean, he's a good

rider. He's a very valuable rider. But as there are a lot of changes going on in Decathlon, I can see why they have put him on hold. Maybe they're going to renew him, but I think they're getting some other deals done first. So he said, last week, I just said publicly, then on the market, I have no contract. I'm open to proposals. I'm pretty sure he will find a team quite easily because he's a good writer. He's a very valuable

writer for teams. But apparently, in the morning of the stage, this is what the bond says in his interview, right? In the morning of stage 20, at the start, the buses are together and people walk around and there's one director on EF. His name is Ken Van Marke, he's the brother of Seb Van Marke, who's a Belgian director on EF and he was at the Giro and so he talked to the bond. Usually it happens, you say hi, how's it going? And so the bond must have said, well, I well, you know, I'm okay, but you know, I'm looking for a team and then market the EF director said, well, you know, what's your plan for today? And the bond said, well, I have no plan, you know, I'm going to try to go in the break.

And then, you know, he knows he can't win the stage. And for market must have said, well, you know, you never know if we need some help and we can have some help, it could have an important effect on your future. So that's why the bont, when he got caught by Carapaz, started to pull on Colo di Finestra. I don't know how long it was, 400 or 500 meters, which is a lot on a climb like that, you know? Um, so that was the reason. There was nothing. We were completely wrong. He didn't have any beef with, with well, but it was basically, I'm not going to say a favor they asked, but some kind of, you know,

little agreement they made, uh, just in case the opportunity arose. And so that's what happened. Is this cheating? Well, it depends how you look at it. I mean, I don't think so. I mean, listen, there's nobody who can prevent another writer to take a poll. If this is the way to think, then I would go, I want to go back, for example, one of the most famous favors returned to somebody of another team, I would say is the lead out of

Geraint Thomas in 2023 for Mark Cavendish. is that cheating or is that a friend's favor? It technically might, if you actually read the rule, it actually technically might be cheating, but obviously they would never enforce that. You can't enforce that. There's no way to prove. I mean, listen, if the bond all of a sudden was there and he said, okay, you know, sometimes it happens like, you know, riders have certain relationships, friendly relationships with people and in the bonds case, for example, right. So his day is done and he gets caught and he's okay, I'm going to, I'm going to make myself useful one last time, not for my team, but for, you know, for these guys.

So one last time, not for my team, but for these guys. There's nobody who can prevent him from doing that. Absolutely not. Now, what I do find strange, however, that the bond was publicly about this. This could be a reason. I mean, knowing the UCI, they could say, ah, let's look into that. These guys, they need to come to the disciplinary commission

and explain themselves. At the end, they won't be able to do anything about it, I would think. But it's done. It's done sometimes. Also, sometimes you have a rider who is like, he has no particular role or goal or task in a race and he likes one rider more than the other. He can pull or he can let one rider pass and another one, he doesn't let him pass. Those are little things that happen because of interpersonal relationships in the peloton.

It's a small world. These guys know each other. Some guys are friends, sometimes are training partners, although they are on another team. They live in the same neighborhood. Their wives are friends. Their kids go to school together. The community in Andorra, the community in Girona, the community in Monaco. There's And I think that's the thing that's really important. And I think that's the thing that's really important. And I think that's the thing that's really important. And I think that's the thing that's really important. And I think that's the thing that's really important. And I think that's the thing that's really important. And I think that's the thing that's really important.

And I think that's the thing that's really important. And I think that's the thing that's really important. And I think that's the thing that's really important. And I think that's the thing that's really important. And I think that's the thing that's really important. And I think that's the thing that's really important. And I think that's to say that he's not just nervous. And it's like, I wanted to get to the front and oh, I didn't realize it's like, I was trying to get a workout. I didn't want to get out of shape. I have some efforts.

So the huge hug after the finish between Mark and this otherwise. But listen, I mean, nobody's nobody said back then that it could be could be considered cheating. I mean, I think it's that's taking it a bit too far. You know, it's not, uh, well, you know, I've seen some comments of people who think it's cheating, but I don't know. Um, I don't, you know, uh, but I think it isn't the bond was looking out for his future. That's the main, that's the main reason, you know, he's trying to, to assure that he, he

has a job in the future. I mean, way to go, EF director. Right. Listen, yeah, I can go back. I mean, it's a long time ago, but I can go back to a race back in the mid 2000s, early 2000s, maybe, there was a race that we were particularly interested in winning. And, you know, there was a rider on our team who was in the breakaway with another rider who didn't have a contract. And you know, I'm not afraid to say that I, you know, I was not at the race, but I call I was on the phone. I was in another race, actually, it was the Dauphiné. And I called the director who was there

and I said, hey, you know, if our rider can win, we'll take that other guy on the team next year. And this guy got a contract. So it's not new. This, you know, it's not new. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It happens all the time. But the closest I've ever, and this didn't happen. I was just reading it this way, but it was San Remo not last year, not this year, but the year before I thought the way it was playing out, I was like, but God, Joe's going to gift this thing to Michael Matthews because they're friends.

No, you don't. It's just unbelievable that this has happened. No, but you know what, Spencer, now that you talk about this, not Milan San Remo, not Milan San Remo, because it's too big of a race. But Pagaccio tried to give the stage to Michael Matthews in the tour a few years ago. You know what?

I think you're, yeah, it it was it was a drag uphill. I don't remember that it was close to Switzerland. Yeah. And I think Michael Matthews got second I don't remember who won. Maybe what fun I don't remember a lot of an art maybe. But you could clearly see that Bogogacar was there and he was sprinting and he was trying to, you know, hold and let Michael Matthews come. I think Michael Matthews got second. I don't remember which stage it was, but- You know, it was Luzon, stage eight, 2022.

Yep. Fan art wins. Matthews is second. Pogacar is third. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is like, that's pushing it. Gifton tour stages to your friend. Yeah. In the GC battle and you need, that might've been before, cause that's the first, Pagato had not lost a tour yet. I think he was flying a little too high there. Like, okay, he was on fire in the first thing, you know, and he was sprinting for every single stage he could. Yeah.

Yeah. I remember there was comments about it. If you look really, if you look it on repeat, you can see that Bogacar is waiting for Michael Mathews. I mean, he wouldn't have beaten Walt anyway. He wouldn't have beaten Walt, but you could see that he was trying to make Michael Watteau's win, like, you know, doing a little lead out and then kind of soft peddling a bit. That's insane.

The GC then, Vendegaard was 39 seconds back. So it's like, in retrospect, you're like, yeah, you should be taking as much time as you possibly can. As you have this destroyer coming behind you. Before we talk about those guys, I know everyone's sitting there just yelling at the radio. What about the tour of Slovenia? When are you guys going to talk about the tour of Slovenia? But just to give people a quick update, been three stages, two of them are sprints. Dylan Grunovegan wins both. There was one not sprint day. I believe it was, I was a little full disclosure, a little distracted when I was

watching the stage, but it looked like a group broke off the front near the end. Kind of interesting racing terrain and Rui Oliveira won, but then Fabio Christian, he got relegated. So Fabio and Christian won, who's now in the GC because of that. It was a strong group with Anders Haaland Johansson, Theo Gegenhardt, Felix Grubbschadder, and they were like a minute ahead of the Peloton. And what about this? And the name of this, try to say the name of the Slovenian kid. Jacob. Jacob. Jacob. Oh my Lord. Armzel.

Yeah, well listen, Spencer, learn that name. Learn that name because we're going to see that guy a lot in the future. It's a huge talent. He's 19 years old. And I have info that it's he's the guys really good, like a really, really good. So we better, we better figure out how we pronounce his last name. Yeah, that was like when Primoz Roglic was coming up, I was like, what the heck is this name? I'm sure I won't have to learn that. Little did we know. Speaking of young talents, and then we have a summit finished tomorrow. So let's, let's, uh, let's talk about this sprint for a second, Spencer.

Uh, I think it's, it's absolutely ridiculous. Uh, that, uh, w w w was it, was it Rui Oliveira or? I think it was Rui. Uh, I don't know if it's Rui or, I mean, they're listeners, they're listeners of the move, by the way, both of them. Uh-oh. Um, it was Rui Oliveira. Okay. Well, you know, uh, I think very, very, uh, unjust, uh, unfair disqualification. He absolutely did nothing. Nothing. Christian Fabio Christian protested a

little bit, but you know, Olivera had passed him already, the sprint was lost. So he was leading it out. Olivera passed him. Didn't even mean he did a little bit, but there was no, absolutely no, uh, disturbance at all. No loss of speed. The only thing is that Kristen, you know, he saw he lost the sprint. He, you know, he put up his arm, but then in the post-race interview, he didn't even mention it.

Kristen, I, I listened to the interview. Christian said, I'm second. He was taking the leader jersey because of the qualifications, because he had it in the breakaway the day before and didn't even mention it. And then they started to debate. And finally, like 15 minutes after the finish, they decided to disqualify Rui Oliveira. Yeah, that's not fair. If that's a disqualification man, they'll have to disqualify a lot of people. There was space. And on top of that, the sad part is this was his first victory in seven years professional.

His first victory on the road. The guy's really good on the track. I think that's the guy who's Olympic champion actually on the velodrome in the Madison, I think. But yeah, his brother won his first race, his first victory in the pros not so long ago in another race a few weeks ago in Italy. I don't know if it was Coppi Bartali or something like that. So one of those races. I actually think he won two stages. Uh,

the other olivera, but this, this, uh, olivera of the twins, this was his first victory ever in professionals. And then they take it away for, for something he, you know, it was absolutely no violation of, of the rules. I didn't realize they were twins until right now, but they do look a lot like the resemblance. I, it could cost them the overall, I mean, because 16 bonus seconds. Oliveira is not going to be in the overall. It's too hard. I mean, yeah. I mean, sometimes, I mean, this year maybe is too hard because stage

four is a legit, that's a very hard climb, But yeah, I mean, they've had additions where they like, and then the state, the race finishes a novo Mesto, the real novo Mesto that we were, we mistakenly thought the world. I've checked Spencer, you know, there's, there's a novo Mesto and there's a novo Mesto. I don't know which one is in Slovenia, which one in Czech Republic, but that's the difference. I think no vo is in Slovenia. Okay. The novena Mesto is in Czech Republic.

But this one, I I'm really late on this. So a listener sent this to me. Thank you. Stage one tour of Norway. We were busy with the zero. Did you see the stage? This guy, storm in the brits and gets in the early breakaway, 20 years old. I checked for a second there because I, you know, the, the Ingebrigtsen, Ingebrigtsen is a very famous name in track and field, you know, the three brothers, Jacob Ingebrigtsen is the, you know, the best, uh, mid, mid distance runner in the world. Uh, but they're not related. They're not related.

That's funny. I actually thought, I assumed they were related, but I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I're not related. They're not related.

That's funny. I actually thought, I assumed they were related, but they could not reel them in at the end. It was almost like an optical illusion. It was like with 4k to go, the breakaway is getting caught. And this guy just kind of rides off the front of the breakaway, but he's just dangling there. And they showed his power on screen. And this is at the end of a breakaway day and it's across windss nasty weather. And he's like holding almost 500 Watts in the saddle. I don't, he probably didn't go below that power for the last 4k and just holds off the

bunch sprint. It was unbelievable. So keep an eye out for that guy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that, yeah, with that performance and that name, I think he's going to come to the attention of a, of a lot of teams. Uh, yeah. You know, I can't see if that, you know, X will not sign this guy. Yeah. Imagine the contract is being drafted as we speak. The funds have been transferred, but anything else before we go on to the Dauphiné?

Well, I mean, another victory of, I mean, tour of Norway, another victory of, for Brandon, you know, was a rider. Yeah. He wins the overall and two stages. Yeah. But this is the craziest part about this race is he didn't finish below second in the entire stage race. It's unbelievable. I don't know if I've ever seen that. He must be, he must be like a 10 victories already, I think this year. Well, he has eight in his career and I think they're all this year. Had never won a pro race before this year. Probably had never been pro, right? Because he's 19 years old. No, I mean, he still races sometimes, races with the development team.

Before, I mean, I think he turned pro now, definitely. But I think he started on the development team this year. Should they tour tour leader, maybe? Paul Jonas from the tour team. There is a lot of people on Twitter. You shouldn't read Twitter just as a life lesson, but I'm shocked at how many people are like, he should be going to the tour instead of Wout van Aert. It's like, well, the tour is a little bit different than the tour of Norway. Like there are differences here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But still, I mean, listen, impressive, impressive, impressive season so far.

Yeah, I'm still, I'm still blown away by this, this stage. He won in Tour of Catalonia. The first one he won, he came from behind and he was leading out basically. I mean, he had to reel in, who was it? The cyclocross rider. It was Tibor Delgrosso. Tibor Delgrosso, who was on his way to the victory and he was pulling and he had Caden Groves in the wheel. I mean, one of the best sprinters in the world. And one of the best sprinters in the world when it's slightly uphill and he pulled for more than a kilometer. And he

just rode him out of his wheel. And he had this guy Dorian Godon who was behind Kate Groves, who's like an uphill sprinting specialist. And he just, he led them out and helped them out. That was one of the most impressive performances so far. Was really, I mean, that's for, and especially for a 19 year old. really, I mean, that's for an especially for a 19 year old. Race art and the cold blooded, uh, you know, instinct he has, it's, it's crazy. Is he the best?

I mean, Pogacar was up there. He was really good at 19, but have you ever seen maybe setting Pogacar aside? Have you ever seen a 19 year old just like turn pro like this? I mean, different type of writers, right? I mean, listen, how are you? So what was third at 19 in the Vuelta? Yeah, I guess like even Pagache, you know, cause Pagache was third at 20 in the Vuelta, but riding the third in a grand tour, it's just like a little less spectacular whereas Brennan, you're just like, Oh my God, this guy can't lose. You know, the, the, what really comes to the Whereas Brennan, you're just like, Oh my God, this guy can't lose. You know, the, the, what really comes to the attention is the, the way he knows how to win, you know, in the disguise of winner, he's,

he's a finisher, you know, he can finish it off. You know, you can have riders who are really, really good. You can see, for example, I use so it's really good, you know, but at 19, he didn't win that much if at all. I don't think he won any races in his first season. So this guy just, you know, yeah, if he keeps going like this, he's going to win 15 races in the first season. Well, why don't you so doesn't have that many more victories than Matthew Brennan does currently. So yeah, Matthew, it's almost a Mierksian just to be 19, never have been a world tour pro before and be winning at this level.

Yeah, it is. But you know, you can't compare with Max and Youssef and Pogacar because he's not a GC rider. You know, he's not, I mean, he's a GC rider for races like Norway, but not for the mountains. Yeah. Yeah. More like a, like a mini Sagan. Sport version of Sagan. Everybody. This episode is brought to you by Manu Kora honey. Are you looking for something simple and delicious to add your wellness routine?

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All you have to do is head to Manukura.com slash The Move to save 31% off plus $25 with the free gifts with the starter kit, which comes with a Manuka honey jar, five honey travel sticks and a wooden spoon as well as a guidebook. Man, you cannot afford to not go do this. It would be financially irresponsible not to go to monocora.com slash the move, save 31% plus get $25 worth of free gifts. Find that link in the show notes. All right, back to the show. And all right. So, Criterium du Dauphiné starts on Sunday. A little bit different this year, because you remember normally it's like really the final two mountain stages are really early in the morning or early in the afternoon, if you're in Europe, because of the Roland Garros French tournament. But everything shifted

a week this year. So we have the tennis tournament this weekend. So it's early on stage one on Sunday, but then we're like normal times for the rest of the race, which is going to be great because we can actually watch it. But it's eight stages, Sunday to Sunday, mini tour to France. It kind of like, I feel like usually carves off the most interesting parts of the tour. And then I mean, just part of it is the region, the Dauphiné, Dauphiné, Dauphiné is like a region, region of France that's mostly in the Alps, but we're like creeping out of that region for the purposes of this race. Cause stage is stage one is in almost like central France with like stage one, two, three are rolling difficult days. Not this is why I really,

it's probably one of my favorite races of the year. Cause it's not a lot of just bang on sprint stages. Like every day is interesting. Stage four time trial, 17 K long time trial. And these are long stages, over 200 kilometers. The first three stages, stage five hilly stage, then stage six mountain stage, stage seven mountain stage, stage eight mountain stage, all Alpine mountain stages will be, people will be using them basically as like a tour de France training

camp this whole race. But the big headline is the contenders are Tadej Pogacar, Jonas Vinnegaard and Brimco Evenepoel. So the three favorites for the tour are the three favorites for this race. Yeah. It's, it's kind of unique, you know, to see them racing together and against each other before the tour. You know, normally one would choose the tour of Switzerland, the other, the Dauphiné, the other would, you know, do a training camp and then another race. So the fact that the three of them are there will be interesting. It's like you say, Spencer, I personally, I think the Dauphiné is a great race

to prepare the tour. It's, you know's the same type of roads, the same atmosphere, same organization. You know, you guess before, I mean, lately they don't do it that much anymore. But, you know, sometimes the Dauphiné always put like it. If there was sometimes like a new a new stage or a new climb in the Alps, they would put it in the Dauphiné to attract, you know, the big riders, of course. I think it's the ideal preparation for the tour. I personally like it better than the tour of Switzerland because it's a week earlier and then you still have time in between the Dauphiné and the tour to do altitude and even to go recon some stages. Because earlier on, if it's high Alps or high Pyrenees, but more the Alps may sometimes be

difficult in April and May to go recon them because there's still snow. That's why June is to go recon them because there's still snow. That's why June is the best time to go recon them. But yeah, it will be an interesting race to follow. The question is, will they really go full out? I think so. They normally do, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, that's what's so interesting about today's cycling. If I would say, 15, 20 years ago, the Dauphiné was a preparation race and you could actually say, okay, you know what, I'm going to go with full gas two stages and then the other stage the other the other days, I'll, I'll just, you know, stay quiet, don't spend too much energy. And you could, if you were a Tour de France favorite, you could see often the scenario that one of those guys got, he was like fifth or sixth in the Dauphiné.

And there was still, you know, there's no panic. Today's cycling is different. If you're not good in the Dauphiné or if you're not top, it's going to be panic because these guys, they race so little that when they race, they go full. I expect Jonas and Tadej to go full gas against each other. Remco is still in his building phase. But the interesting thing about Remco is that I read an interview of his trainer, who

said that Remco is now 1 and 1.5 kilo lighter than the same time last year. And we know Remco was not great in last year's Dauphiné. And he improved a lot between the Dauphiné and the Tour de France, both physically and also he got his weight down. The Remco, if you see pictures of Remco in the Dauphiné of 2024 and pictures of Remco in the Tour, it's not the same guy. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. But why is Remco, It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But why is Remco, you say building phase, why is, why are Jonas and Tadej never in building phases? It's like Remco, Remco feels like has to adhere to the rules of logic more than the two guys.

Yeah, but let's not forget Remco comes back from an accident, right? So he raised very little. He started his first race. So he did Fletcher Brabone, I'm still liash three races and then Romandy. That's it. He hasn't raised more than this. But isn't that more than Jonas? Yeah, well, Jonas also Jonas, you know, did Algarve and then Paris Nice crashed and abandoned. So, uh, yeah. Um, I don't know. I don't know. Uh, it's possible to, he's, he's a very athletic person. You know, he's like, was a almost professional soccer player. It's possible.

He's just like not as naturally skinny as the other two guys. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah, that's true. That's true. But I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure that when we were going to see Remco and his racing outfit at the Dauphiné already. Yeah, I'm going to say, oh, wow, that guy's ripped. I can't wait. All three of them are going to be ripped, Spencer. They're going to be, you know, like we haven't seen much, you know, and that's also the interesting thing of now having the Dauphiné because we've seen a lot of little hints, right? These three guys with their teams have been three weeks together on the same mountain in Sierra Nevada. Sierra Nevada, I've spoken to somebody who's there

on one of the teams and he says 70% of the Tour de France peloton is here right now. Sierra Nevada is apparently popular in May, more than Tenerife because, well, I mean, Tenerife is, I don't know, I mean, yeah, Ineos was in Tenerife, no? And on the Tayden, I think, yeah. Yeah, they were. Yeah. But Sierra Nevada, it's usually good weather. It's the south of Spain, but anyway, Tenerife is also good weather.

It's closer to, I mean, but it's logistically, logistically, actually, you know, like I just was with my son in, in Andalusia last weekend for, for two races. And on our way back, a few team cars, professional cars past us on the way back from Sierra Nevada, uh, towards, I don't know if they went to Girona or because some teams, some teams have their base there. But yeah, I mean, we, we don't get a lot of information, uh, other than Jonas being worried about his tan lines, I guess, because he's riding in a GLE, no sleeves and then low socks.

But yeah, I mean, the information I'm getting is that both of them are flying. Jonas apparently has his best numbers ever and Tadej is close to his best form ever. If he still improves compared to what he wasn't. But I personally think that the interesting thing is that they're definitely going to be closer together than last year's Tour de France, which is the interesting thing. We want a great battle between Jonas and Tadej. And even if Remco is now also better than last year at this point, I still think that it's fair to say that he's not... I mean, I think that's the biggest candidate for third place in the tour.

If everything goes to plan now, what we will most likely see is that between now and the start of the tour, if we have four, five, six candidates or favorites, something will happen with one of them. You know, it's always the case. We hope not that it's not with, you know, the big favorites, but it's still a long way to go. You know? Yeah. Yeah. We won't get a clean three way run at it.

I mean, here, this is just create some crazy stats. I've been looking up. So do you know how many times these guys have faced off in a one week stage race? It's one time ever. 2022, Torino, all three, all three. So it was, uh, it was Taddei won, uh, Jonas to Remco 11. Do you know how many times Jonas and Taddei have faced off before the tour before at a one week stage race?

Like either Dauphiné or Swiss? Never. It's never happened. before at a one week stage race, like either Dauphiné or Swiss. Never. It's never happened. Also, what I can remember is, uh, Parini's last year, two years ago when, when Tadej won and Jonas was third. And I'm going to guess David Godu was second.

Yeah. Right. Right. David Godu's life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That'sue's life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's two years ago. No, two years ago. And then I think Taddei went to liaison crashed him, right. And broke his wrist. Yeah. And then Jonas wins the tour.

This is crazy. So do you, I was thinking, so a professional gambler texted me this morning saying like, is there any way Taddei loses this? And I was like, well, let's just look through the data. Do you know how many times in his career or since winning the tour in 2020, Tadej Pogacar has lost a one week stage race? I'll be impressed if you can remember. But a one week stage race

that Pogacar started and did not win. I'm tempted to say never, but I'm feeling like there's one. There is one. Okay. Is it a world tour race? It's a world tour race. Tour of the boss country? Yes.

2021. Remember it was like a Visma raid. Tour of the boss country? Yes. 2021. Remember it was like a Visma raid. Tour of the bath country. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And where was Tadej?

Tadej was third. Jonas was second. Primoz was first. That's when McNulty was in the lead. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. They like worked him over.

Yeah. Yeah. And it kind of like actually the, it's like precursor to the 2022 tour, where they would work them over at the tour. But so actually it's kind of shocking. I mean, Pagacar has never lost to Rimco in a stage race. He's only lost to Jonas three times in stage races. Two of those are there at the tour. One is just the best country, which we just said. I mean, who do you think's winning this race? You think it's Pagachar? The Dauphiné? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I'm going to say today. Yeah. So here's the odd. It's kind of interesting. It's not as spicy as it was this morning. So Pagachar is on Univet. Minus 215. Jonas Vindigo plus 300. Remco Evenepoel plus 600. Mateo Jorgensen plus 1600.

But Pagachar, even at minus 215, that's still better than his tour odds, which I believe are minus 250. That actually doesn't make any sense because there's fewer variables in a one-week race. He's arguably a better one-weeker than three week racer and your money's tied up for not as long. So if you think Tadej is going to win the tour, you should probably just bet him on the Dauphiné if you can find a book that's going to take the money. Yeah. Yeah.

Cause I think there's a better chance one of the two of Remco and Jonas beat him at the tour than they do at this race. I keep saying Spencer, you know, it may, it may become, you know, something that I'm repeating and then it may become boring. But you know, if Pogacar races intelligently and conservatively, it's almost impossible to beat him in the tour. If he doesn't do anything stupid with like long attacks and I can't see him be beaten. I kind of agree with you and people, it might sound ridiculous, but think about like those Lance tours and then the Frum tours.

Like really like the Frum lost that one because he crashed, broke his wrist. But those guys were just so much better than everybody else that it was hard. All the, all the kinks get ironed out over three weeks. And like, how could you beat them if you're not as good with, good as them? Also, I've been thinking about this Lance quote. He said it during the tour last year. He's like, I would do a Madone and if I could hit a certain number, I knew I was going to win the tour, but these guys probably don't have that luxury, right?

Because if Jonas and Remco are always getting better, Tadej, can he ever feel comfortable? Or is it like, I have to be better than the year before? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. And nowadays, I mean, so much, I mean, so much has changed because, you know, let's not forget, you know, when, when Lance was, was doing these tests on the Madone, you know, let's not forget, you know, when when Lance was was doing these tests on the Madone, you know, he was also a pioneer in terms of data. No, it may sound like, you know, there were not that many people who were riding with SRM back then. SRM was the first, you know, the

first real power meter. And I've been told that as of today, it's still the most accurate device. I've been told that as of today, it's still the most accurate device. I actually had a nice talk with Uli Schubler from the founder and owner of SRM in Germany when we were there for the Jan Ulrich Festival. He confirmed, he said, it's still the most precise. All the other devices are okay, but sometimes certain percentages are off. But anyway, Lance was one of the first ones who really used it. I mean, there were a lot of guys who had power meters, but you still have to know how to use it. And then Lance was religiously using it in training.

He never raced with it, or almost never, at least never in the tour because of the weight. But you know, there were not that many riders back then who were focusing on their times and their data. And there were a few. Now it's the whole peloton, but I mean but now it starts as soon as they get a bike. When they're 14, 15, they have a power meter and that's what they go by. So that's also why they keep improving every single time.

I mean, if I look, coming back to my son, for example, he's 16, these guys get better every single month. It's every single month. You know, he comes by, he comes, he says, Daddy, I broke my best 20 minutes. I did my best five minutes. Like it's constantly because they have a goal, they focus, they never just get on their bike and ride around like we used to do. You know, we went on a ride, we said, okay, we're going to do five hours. We wrote five hours. And you know, it was sometimes we saw a little hill, we sprinted up the hill. Uh, those were intervals right now.

It's so specific and constantly pursuing goals that they're pushing themselves all the time and constantly improve. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'm thinking about it. As you were saying that I was just imagining all that time. I wasted cruising around five hours, not training. It was like, it was more fun. Spencer. It is way more fun. Way more fun. I don't know if I could train like your son trains. Um, we should mention before we go, Jonas Vindegaard, you said still on 150 millimeter millimeter cranks. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I've heard this. I don't know. If that's true,

if that's true, I have my doubts. I mean, you know, I can, I, I have, you know, warmed up and understood the, you know, the movement towards shorter cranks. I understand why I can see the sense of it, but man, 150, that's pushing it to an extreme. I don't know if it's true or not. I know he had it in Algarve. I know he had them in Galparinis. had it in Algarve. I know he had them in Palinis. I want to see over three weeks in Long Mountains if that's really, if it's true that he's on 150, right? We know that Pogacar's on 165, which was when everybody found out Pogacar was on 165, and say, whoa, you know, everybody's used to 172 and a half or 170, Pogacar, you know, goes down to 165. It was like the new thing, right?

Now they're taking it, you know, shorter and shorter. So, I mean, listen, if he's on 150, they have a reason, they've done the tests, right? That's, there's no way that they're just experimenting with it. But I think it's very short. I mean, if you shorten your cranks, you will speed up your cadence. It is quite a bit different on the, I don't know, everything just feels different.

Your position's different. 150 seems extreme. And usually you say they must, the testing must exist where they think it's better. Jonas Vindigo is not one as single mountains, like a uphill finish this year. So, you know, I think, I think there's, I personally think Spencer, there's the tests, you know, and for sure if they do the specific test, whether it's on a, on, on, you know, in a one-off test and on a home trainer or on a lab bike, for sure the data will tell, okay, this is an advantage. I'm just thinking that is it true over three weeks? That's different.

Is it possible to maintain when you do an attack or when you... Is it possible to maintain, you know, when you do an attack or when you, you know, is it possible to maintain that over a longer period of time? Uh, that's where I have my doubts. Maybe they think the shorter cranks help you over three weeks, I guess would be the most, right? Well, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see.

I have no scientific data to, to say, or to back up what I'm doubting about. It's just my gut feeling, but I think 150 is pushing it too much. I agree. So before we go, I just have one question I want to ask you from a listener that wrote in kindly. And I was wondering about this too. Jonathan Vodders, your good friend, was on the TNT sports broadcast and said,

I thought something interesting. He's like, hey, you guys think all, you can think of everything and you can say it, but there's a very good chance that the writers can't hear anything because these radios are terrible. And someone wrote in saying like, even if they have their AirPods in when they're riding

at 20 miles an hour, it can be hard to hear stuff. That's not even taking into account like connection issues. Is, is this a real thing, Johan, where people actually might not be hearing what you're saying as the doctor? Yeah. That's, that's one of the things that, that almost hasn't evolved the technology of the radio communication. Although I would think that on Colo di Finestre, especially the second part of Colo di Finestre, it's so spread out that the

cars are not far behind. But it is possible. It is possible. But I mean, I don't think that was the issue. I don't think that was the issue. Did you hear UAE said, they said, yeah, we kind of wanted to let him make the decision. So we just kind of lightly suggested that was, that was a really bad answer. You know, no, especially, I mean, listen, the total was 21. His first experience like this, he's overwhelmed. I think personally, listen, it's all good and well to say, okay, you have to do this, you have to do this, you have to give instruction from the car. You don't feel the rider's legs.

I personally think Del Toro was more or less on the limit. And as he said, also in his interviews, he said, you know, well, if I start to pull, then I'm 100% sure color, color pass will attack me, I'm going to get dropped. And instead of not winning, I'm not going to even be second. So yeah, I'm still I still think I still think that both of those guys made the mistake. I've seen a lot of criticism towards Zertoro. I don't agree. I don't agree. Listen, the guy's young. He was on the limit. You can't think straight.

He made mistakes, but not to crucify him. I mean, it's like, okay. I think, I think what really, what really went in against him was the fact that when he got to the finish, he sprinted like crazy. And then, you know, like his, I would say not, he wasn't sad after the race. He was like, he had like a victory slew. I honestly thought, oh no, he doesn't know Simon Yates is up the road. No, he didn't know. He didn't know. Um, he was happy to be second. That's, um, yeah, I mean, obviously he was disappointed, but I, I'm still convinced. I mean, and especially when I listened to the interview of Carapaz and the tone and the bitterness with which he was answering, it was personal beef between Carapaz and Del Toro. It was not good. He said, well, okay,

a smaller rider won, but ultimately, it's Del Toro would have said, who would have said that if Carapaz works together with Del Toro, you know, he could have dropped the Moncestriere. Yeah. That is the, that's the weirdest thing that I can't get past is because Del Toro asks him to pull through. He says, no, but it's like, you don't know that you can't. Maybe he thought he couldn't drop them, but yeah, it's like, you can drop them on that climb. If he's caught up, he's like Toro asked him to pull through. He says, no, but it's like, you don't know that you can't. Maybe he thought he couldn't drop them, but yeah, it's like, you can drop them

on that climb. If he's crying, I think I was convinced he could drop the total of the nest. When that, when he saw that, that didn't happen. He said, okay, I'm not winning. You're not winning either. This is, that's, I think that's the simplest answer. And I'm pretty sure that's the case. Yeah.

Maybe. I, yeah. Yeah. Probably. Probably. I do think that team car, they got it. You got to say, Hey man, maybe Simon Yates in the virtual lead. Maybe we think about that. I was shocked that they said they didn't really pass on any information to them. No, they did. They did. We'll just let it's easy to, it's easy to blame it on the radio. You know, I mean, it's like deep, deep down inside the DSS must also say, okay, we messed up. You know, how can we, how can we explain this? Okay. Hey, the radio is on work. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot. I mean, interestingly, the, those underlying issues that we're talking about,

maybe at that team could, could keep the tour interesting because they don't have a history of making like the absolute best decisions you would say in the heat of the moment. Oh, beyond one more question. I thought this one was interesting too. So there's a question from a listeners fan. You know, when like people take spare bikes and they don't take their, their computer, why did the teams not just pass it up to them? Like they would a water bottle. Like, is that not a helpful thing to have? Um, I think I, I pretty, I pretty sure that sometimes they do.

And I've always, always wondered this. Why are there not water bottles on the spare bikes? Yeah, well, that's a big mistake. You know, it's okay. Well, no, I mean, obviously they're not going to be, I mean, they're going to be hot. It's really hot. I guess if it's a summer race, they will be hot. But if it's, if it's a plant, I mean, if you can see it coming, if you can, if the, if the guy gives a heads up to the car,

Hey, I need to change my bike. You know, the mechanic can put, put two bottles on, you know, it's shocking how often I'm saying that, you know, maybe, maybe, you know, the rules have changed, you know, they're not allowed to lean out of the window anymore. The mechanics. So that's why, but anyways, you can take two bottles and then, you know, quickly put them in. It's all very hectic. It needs to be fast. The most important thing is that the guy gets a new bike. That's the most important. Everything else can get fixed and corrected afterwards. If it's the head unit or bottles, they can get it afterwards. Right. My one old man rant about cycling is I feel like that no one teaches bike change or a wheel change etiquette anymore. It's like as a kid,

the first thing it's like, take your bottles, change your bottles over while they're changing the tires. Second thing, get off the dang bike. I don't know what this thing is where people staying on the bike. That's the worst a rider can do. I know. Especially now with the true axles and this brakes, man, no, you have to get off. You have to get off the bike. I don't know what's going on with these kids these days. No one's teaching the fundamentals. I don't recognize the game anymore. But anything else, Johan, before we buckle in for another stage race? Just one last mention is that the Dauphiné will be Roman Bardes' last race as a professional cyclist. So he decided to, you know, it doesn't finish the season, but this is his home race.

The race actually starts from his hometown and it will be his last race ever. So after Dauphiné, Romain Bardet will not be a professional cyclist anymore. So let's hope he can win a stage. Is that it? That's gotta be intentional, right? That's not just that they started it from his hometown. I mean, no way that's a coincidence. I don't know how, I mean, the tour obviously is decided long's a coincidence. I don't know how, I mean, the tour obviously is decided long time in advance. I don't know how long the Dauphiné is decided in advance.

Anyway, Bardet already said last, at the end of the season or in the beginning of this season, that he was going to go on till the Dauphiné. So maybe, yeah, maybe they had it in mind. Yeah. Yeah. I still think, I still think about that stage of the zero that he should have had. It's going to be tough, really tough to win a stage of this Dauphiné. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's it. And it's on Peacock in the U S if you're wondering how you watch this. Well, I'm going to go with my good old max, which covers the whole season. I know it's nice. It's too jealous of that situation, But thanks, Johan, and we'll be back not on Monday, but on next Friday to break down what has happened and then preview the final weekend. Okay. Thanks, Spencer.