THEMOVE - Tour de France 2025 Stage 5 | THEMOVE

Starting point is 00:00:00 Yeah, I mean, I think it's more a case of where the Visma go from here because, you know, we saw Younes doing everything in his power the first few days to remain at zero time to Tadej. And he's right on his back wheel the whole time, finished second to him, finished third up that climb yesterday. When Tadej moved on that climb, Younes was right on him and he was doing everything in his powers to minimize losing any time whatsoever. So today he's took a packet of time. So did Younes expect to be in the position he's in now or was this anticipated from Younes? Only Younes will be able to tell you that. If he expected to get closer to Terry than he did or if not beat him, then you know he's got to now contemplate where do I go from here and that is a team thing now

Starting point is 00:00:41 because Matteo is right on his heels and as Matteo has shown this year and last year he's capable of a podium in this Tour de France. All right everybody, welcome back to the Move Podcast talking about Stage Five. Alland, where did we go? Stage Five from Caen to Caen, from Caen to Caen. Pretty easy day for Alland, that one. Remco of Enepoel proving why he is the Olympic champion and the world champion in the time trial. Exceptional performance. But actually, well, I guess it was a day

Starting point is 00:01:24 of quite a few exceptional performances and some not so exceptional performances. We're going to get into all that. But before we do, today's show brought to you by Zwift. Hey, y'all see those cool headphones that Alpecin was rocking during the warm-up? Got them right here in front of us. So, Zwift is, and this is new Intel for me, coming out with headphones. And I always thought about this. If you're on Zwift and whatever headphone you're using and you're indoors,

Starting point is 00:01:49 right? You can have all the fans on you want, but you're sweating like crazy. They, they decided to fix that situation. Waterproof, sweat proof, extreme noise canceling, premium sound, ultra long battery life. Better for you, George, since you're just doing like six hour days. You said premium sound. They sound amazing. I already connected them.

Starting point is 00:02:10 You already hooked them up? Oh yeah. By the way, too, Rimco of Enable, today's winner is a Level 46 on Swift with over 9,000 kilometers ridden. The cool thing is you don't have to stop at any red lights, you don't have to dodge any cars. Plus, it's a great community. I would love one day for Rimco to join us for one of the We Do Wednesday Club rides or the Suffer Sundays.

Starting point is 00:02:36 They're doing good stuff over there at Zwift. Also today, speaking of sweat. Niko Kline-Ruiz-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci-Ricci- I just checked. Are you level 47 and he's level 46? There's no way. Yeah, I guess so. And we were, before we went on the show, we were just discussing, just a side note, I rode with George yesterday and at the top, we did a long climb. He dumped me, y'all. He dumped me. He said he no longer wants to ride with me. No, at the top, I got half-wheeled.

Starting point is 00:03:00 And this isn't a joke. I was half-wheeled the entire way up the climb so not true and I just wasn't enjoying it at this point in our lives we should enjoy riding and I hated every second of it and I got up there and I said you know I think I'm done writing with you so I mean and I mean it and I'm not you don't even have anything to say. And I was- Well, no, I said I was highly disappointed by the comment and I hope that it's not true

Starting point is 00:03:30 and that we do some more writing this month. And I was sweating my face off. So you know what I went to, I went to Element. Thousand milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium, 60 milligrams of magnesium, no sugar, no gluten, no artificial ingredients, no BS. It is our go-to hydration and rehydration source. Get a free 8-count sample pack of Element's most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase at drinklmnt.com. Find your favorite Element flavor or share

Starting point is 00:04:01 with a friend. Also, be sure to try the new Element Sparkling, a bold 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. What is it they used to say? Stay salty. Stay salty, my friends. Also, today brought to you by Ekoi. We've got the Ekoi Time Trial Helmet here on the desk. There's been a lot of evolution in these time trial helmets. This one looks pretty insanely fast. Ekoi is a leading brand in Europe specializing in cycling equipment from head to toe. It is one of the few brands that truly develops its products in close collaboration with professional athletes across all disciplines. Road, triathlon, gravel, and mountain bike. Ekoi is the most represented brand on the Tour de France with

Starting point is 00:04:45 four teams wearing their products. Israel Premier Tech, Lotto Destiny, Arkea B&B Hotels, and Kofidice. Their products are available exclusively online at Ekoi. That's E-K-O-I-Ekoi.com. One of the most important things is, as you all shop around online, Ekoi not only really pushes their product on the development and testing side, but is unbeatable when it comes to value for your money. The entire Ekoi website is currently on sale until the end of July. Head on over to ekoi.com, use the code THEMOVE15. That gets you $15 off any purchase over $150 or more. Remco was great. You think about it, right?

Starting point is 00:05:36 Of course, this is bike racing, but if you think about the day, he doesn't lose 39 seconds. This puts him into the jersey. But he was exceptional. It's amazing to me these smaller guys nowadays. We saw an early ride by Feeney. He sat on the hot seat. I love how the Tour now has all the races have the hot seat. You've got to sit there until somebody beats your time. He sat there for three hours until Remco came along. Yeah, Remco, I mean, he showed us today why he's the champion he is.

Starting point is 00:06:04 And you know, to execute a performance like that after the last few days where he had a tumble, lost some time, he lost three seconds in that final running yesterday, to get himself together, to compose himself, to go out outside of the GC battle as it were, he went off before those guys because of his GC position, against Ofini who went off earlier in the day where the weather changed a little bit in terms of wind direction. And to execute a performance like that, knowing he was down at those first few splits on a Fini, but to put that from the third split to the finish together the way he did, his

Starting point is 00:06:37 judgment in the corners, the race line he was taking, it was fantastic. And it was a real, real great performance from Remco. And he's put himself right back now in the mix For the next few weeks. Yeah, and I agree he held his composure. Like you said yesterday The the race is a race within yourself what you'd always watch your watts and your speed and Not being him not have not panicking when he was down in those first time splits What we all thought was kind of a surprise, but like you said the weather was different

Starting point is 00:07:03 The wind was different a man to pull it off with the whole world expecting you to win is even more impressive his ride Puts him up or moves him up into second place on GC 42 seconds down on Tadej Pogacar Kevin Vakulan who we're gonna talk about who had a hell of a ride. He said this kid has been Just sort of getting better and better every year. And the French, I think, for decades, well, I know, for decades have been looking for the next great French rider. I don't think they've necessarily looked at him when you read all the articles and read all the buzz. He's viewed as a good rider.

Starting point is 00:07:39 He's now third in the Tour de France. He had an excellent time trial, finished fifth. And this is a couple years in a row that he's ridden at the front of the race in the Tour de France. He had an excellent time, he finished fifth. And this is a couple years in a row that he's ridden at the front of the race in the Tour, set to leave that team. A relatively small team, relatively small French team set to leave next year. There's a lot of speculation on where he ends up.

Starting point is 00:07:57 To me, I think that's sort of a tipping point in his career, depending upon where he goes, the structure, the training, the support. You could see this kid can be... You'd think a team like AG2R or Decathlon, or now it's just Decathlon, I believe. They just announced they're going to up their budget to $40 million next year, and they have this young rock star, Sexis. Paul Sexis.

Starting point is 00:08:22 Why wouldn't they not go after a guy who's already won a stage of the Tour de France, is sitting in third place overall right now in the Tour de France? You'd think they'd go after him pretty hard, so who knows where he ends up. I mean, I don't think that's... That is a question. That wouldn't be my question. My question would probably be, why would he go there? Showing the promise that he showed the last two years

Starting point is 00:08:49 and the progress he showed the last two years, I'd go somewhere else. You wouldn't go to an American team that upped their budget to 40 million? I'd say yes. I don't know. An Ineos? A Red Bull.

Starting point is 00:09:05 Yeah, I mean, we saw what happened with Lidl Trek. I mean, when it was just Trek, and all of a sudden Lidl came in with a $20 million injection. Now they're winning pretty much every race they enter, or most races, and they're the top two, three, four teams in the world. So the money makes a big difference,

Starting point is 00:09:23 and I think we're gonna see a huge difference in the team to Cattelon next year. And I think, and I think we all agree, the second biggest takeaway, maybe even close to the biggest headline today was the disappointing ride from Jonas Wengelgaard. He finished 13th on the stage, well down. If you go 13th, he was a minute and 21 behind. It just never

Starting point is 00:09:51 looked like he was having a great ride. And I know this is... Look, you picked him to win yesterday. I didn't hate that pick. You have to look at this performance and say something's up. Kline-Murray Maybe. I did hear it said that this is a course that goes against everything that he's good at. It's flat, it's fast, it was very un-technical, but at the same time, you could say the same for Tadej. That was Tadej's worst idea of what a time trial should look like for a performance of the nature that he did today. And he still performed. Tadej always delivers when it matters at the Tour de France. And again, we haven't spoken about Tadej yet, but leading in three categories

Starting point is 00:10:34 now in all three competitions. To get as close as he did to Remco at the finish line. I said yesterday we're running out of superlatives for this guy, but it's hard to see anyone now dislodging him over the next two and a half weeks, all being well. Crashes, illnesses with the team he has. Now, it's back to the drawing board for the likes of Wismar, in terms of how they now approach this race, in terms of thinking about a win. O'Reilly We're going to talk about that, because they do have some options. Hill, we're going to talk about that because they do have some options. They have options tactically, primarily in and around Matteo Jorgensen. One other fun data point, Tadej Pogacar, from the third time check to the finish averaged 57 km an hour. I know you were wondering what

Starting point is 00:11:22 the average speed would be. I think they ended up 53.95 kilometers an hour. He rode the last section 57 kilometers an hour. Yeah, and it kind of goes against everything that Jonas has said, that he's come into this tour with more power, more muscle. So you think this flat time trial, he wouldn't have lost that much time. He came in last year's year sort of France like Spencer mentioned With a way worse preparation finished fourth in the in the first time trial his breakthrough sort of time trial in the Tour de France Four years ago. He finished second. So this is arguably his worst time trial. He's done in a long time That said he did say he did his best one minute power yesterday on the client

Starting point is 00:12:01 Yeah, but that might have something to do with it So perhaps the damage you do from those type of efforts going into something like this where you got to ride 33 34 35 minute power yesterday on the client. Lewis he was doing too much at one point. Well, in the second half of the show, we're going to talk about tomorrow's stage. So just hold that thought. I hadn't even jumped ahead to tomorrow. And then when I opened the profile, I thought, oh Lord. So there's going to be more of that. It's like the Gansu knife. But wait, there's more. Another thing that we remarked, I think the coverage is distributed to, like here in the United States, the race is covered on Peacock. And in France, it's covered on national television, and Italy, whatever. So on and on and on. The feed is distributed from the race. Now, just to back up,

Starting point is 00:13:05 you've got an individual time trial. You have guys out there all alone. The cameras are jumping all over the place. There are the time checks. When I look at the profile and I see three time checks, I get excited as a spectator. I'm like, oh, cool. So let's compare and contrast.

Starting point is 00:13:20 You got Formula One. There are time checks everywhere, and they are 100% accurate. If you watch the game of golf, for example, which the Open is going to start here in another week, it would be like watching a guy on some hole as they jump to him and you don't know what shot he's hitting. He could be hitting a second, he could be hitting his eighth. We don't know. They were so inaccurate. To me, as a fan and as a viewer, you're just watching, how about this just immediately streams? We were lost. How hard is it, Bradley?

Starting point is 00:13:50 Muckerman We were frustrated, weren't we, watching it? In this day and age, with the technology we have, the instant feedback would be fantastic in terms of just the basics, like rolling speed and things like that. It was a shame that there was quite a delay in getting that information today on a stage that was as exciting as it was. Yeah, I was following the Torch Racker. They had better sort of live updates than the coverage. But like you said, that makes it a lot more exciting if you're able to get real time. But that to me says that they can do it because that's all coming from the same base.

Starting point is 00:14:26 2025, Lance. Of course they can do it. Yeah, I think that is my point. It is 2025. It would be really interesting to hear the radio against these guys. We did hear some of it, but how they're talking to Tkade and how they're talking to Jonas and Remco, that would have been super interesting. Hiller I guess the question for Jonas Wengelgaard is, where does he go from here? Look, it is early. We've talked a lot, especially in the preview show, of how this tour is so weighted when it comes to the high mountains to the second half of the race. So look, just keep that in the back of your mind.

Starting point is 00:15:08 But if you're him, man, he's on his back foot now, right? He is down the time that he's down. Tomorrow is another hard stage. Where do they go from here? And you don't have to look very far down the list of riders here. And of course we talk a lot about and are huge fans of Matteo Jorgensen. This is a kid who is on the way up. Speaking of time checks

Starting point is 00:15:33 from time check three to the finish, he had the fourth fastest time from T3 to the finish, so he was holding some back and then let it rip. Maybe now they have to play the team game. Jorgensen can climb. Jorgensen has experience. Jorgensen is on his way up. I think they're going to have to look at some alternate solutions here strategically. Kline I think it's more a case of where the vizmer go from here. We saw Jonas doing everything in his power the first few days to remain at zero time to Tadej. I mean, he's right on his back wheel the whole time,

Starting point is 00:16:09 finished second to him, finished third up that climb yesterday. When Tadej moved on that climb, Younes was right on him and he was doing everything in his powers to minimize losing any time whatsoever. So today he's took a packet of time. So did Younes expect to be in the position he's in now or was this anticipated from Younis? Only Younis will be able to tell you that. If he expected to get closer to Teddy than he did, or if not beat him, then you know he's got to now

Starting point is 00:16:35 contemplate where do I go from here? And that is a team thing now because Matteo is right on his heels. And as Matteo has shown this year and last year, he's capable of a podium in this Tour of France. So Vizmar now really have to think about a two pronged attack, which could work either way, but Younis will have to accept that he's now not the main leader, if that's the case. If Younis says, look, I'm still the leader here, and I expect everyone to race for me.

Starting point is 00:16:59 We saw the comments made by his wife early in the week. It's gonna be interesting where they go from here. I think he's gonna, well, one, for for sure he did not expect to lose that much time, especially coming off the Dauphiné time trial, coming into Tour de France with saying that he was stronger than ever. So I believe he's truly super disappointed after today. But I mean, he's still climbing really well. So far he's the only one able to follow Tade. And I still think that they're hoping he reaches his peak after stage 10. That's what I think.

Starting point is 00:17:27 And I don't see, even Juergensen in his comments, although incredible rider, want to see him podium at Tour de France, that'd be amazing. He's got the talent to podium for sure, but you see some of the interviews that Juergensen said even yesterday. He said, when you went, I was looking at my numbers

Starting point is 00:17:44 and I thought, there's no way I can go. And that's a straight up climb. So once they get those straight up climbs that are 45 minutes long to an hour long, I think the advantage still goes to Jonas. Yeah, and we're dealing with, we're like a broken record. I mean, we are dealing with what might be the best Tadej Pogacar we've seen.

Starting point is 00:18:03 And just in control, you kinda just sense it and that's his vibe. He was in control all across the time trial today. Well, I wouldn't say the best to Tade. I mean, he won the time trial last year at the finish, didn't he? The Remco went in. I'm pretty sure Tade won it.

Starting point is 00:18:20 Tade. Tade won it, so. Yeah, but if you're looking at the season, I think we all. The season, of course, yeah. I mean, he's, there's not, we're not seeing any weaknesses. And then you layer in his team, his team is exceptional.

Starting point is 00:18:34 I keep going back to yesterday when it was like the first time he attacked in the final of a climb and didn't ride away from everybody. That's like the only hope I have that there's still a chance for some major competition here in the Tour. But all indications are that he is by far the best guy and it's going to be really hard to beat him. Hiller That is the one caveat I had about yesterday, because we bantered about whether or not Jonas's team said, hey, there's 75 meters left to

Starting point is 00:19:01 this climb, you have to close the gap and stay with him, and he did. Or was that as hard as Tadej could go and he sat up a little bit, right? That can also happen. We give him a lot of credit, as we should, but he's also at times has to be human. Well, he said, Yonas said in his interview that he was going way too hard.

Starting point is 00:19:25 So he let up a little bit, but then also, Pogatar let up a bit. So I think they were both way above their limit. So it kind of equaled out there at the top. So there's a glimmer of hope. There is. There's always a glimmer. I tell you, we talked yesterday about Jonas's crank arm length. I never would have thought the look.

Starting point is 00:19:44 He was running an exceptionally, from my eyes, a huge chainring. It's almost like the crank links didn't extend much past the chainring. It looked different. I think it was a 60 tooth chainring. It was a 60. What was the biggest you ever rode? I rode a 58 at the World Championships. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:06 I mean, after we flagged it yesterday, I was watching and I thought, okay, now I see it. Anyways, right quick, we're going to take a break for Peacock. We'll be right back. We've got some fun stuff talking about tomorrow and got some cool questions from the listeners. All right, everybody, we are back. I couldn't help but notice. And it took me several hours. It might've been the reason I didn't feel that great

Starting point is 00:20:31 on the ride yesterday, because I felt so left out in the wardrobe category here on the team. I just couldn't, as we were sitting here chatting earlier, I just couldn't help but notice that now my man down there to the left is left out I'm left out. I got dumped from riding with you ever again, and I don't get the blue hoodie We got the new foreign rider hoodies these things

Starting point is 00:20:55 These things are sick Foreign rider, I love the story of that company. Yeah, Ralph Dunning the founder He started he had a golf brand before called Dunning and sold that business and then started Foreign Rider. And I bought his sweatpants at a pro shop in Florida. And I never, my wife eventually was like, it's time for you to take off those sweatpants. I mean, it got disgusting.

Starting point is 00:21:27 Started dubbing them the skitties. Now that's all you wear, sweatpants now. I've been here for one week and you've only had sweatpants on. That's because they're skitties. Skitty up. Anyways, we get to know Ralph and he makes us, we do kits, we do skitties. Yeah. Hmm?

Starting point is 00:21:48 And you do- Ralph, where's my Navy? Where's my Navy? I think the issue, cause you know, well you're in XL, right? You XL? L. You're in L, so we're both L.

Starting point is 00:21:56 Yep. I think he's, I think production's behind on the extra smalls. You're going on your chair. Oh man, I missed that joke, Bradley. We're going to talk about, let's split up, we have some good questions, so I want to split them up and then we'll talk about tomorrow's stage. Yeah, I do also want to talk about, like you mentioned, where does Wiesma go from here?

Starting point is 00:22:18 If it was me, and we haven't been able to make a difference in terms of Tajay, we're kind of hanging by fourth and fifth place. If it was me, I would hang back until stage 10 now and just try to recover, try to get the team morale back, ride together, don't lose any more time, but just hold back until we hit the big mountains. That's what I would. I think it's a-

Starting point is 00:22:40 I'd love to hear what Johan thinks about that. Okay. So Bradley, you can ask him on your show. I think it's a great idea, but if you do venture ahead in the racebook, you'll see tomorrow and you'll see the day after tomorrow. You can do that, but you still can't lose time. These are stages where if you chill too much, you're going to lose time. First question is from Alan. I'm going to let you take this much, you're going to lose time. First question is from Alan.

Starting point is 00:23:06 I'm going to let you take this one, Sir Bradley. How do you fuel for a time trial, or how did you fuel for a time trial at your peak? How has that changed today? We talk a lot about how fueling in this Peloton has really changed. Unless I'm missing something, I don't think there's any fueling in the middle of a time trial. What would be your impression of how they fuel today leading up to the time trial? What was your strategy? Kline-I'm not too sure what they do today.

Starting point is 00:23:41 Twelve years ago, 14 years ago, the race meal was the same, three hours before. One hour and a half before, take sodium bicarbonate, which is a lactate buffer, and a gel before your warm-up, which is predominantly 25 grams of carbohydrate, a gel after your warm-up, and then I'd have two up my shorts because I had no pockets in my suit. If it was a long time trail, I would have two. If it was a day like today, 33 kilometers, you'd still want to take one gel 10 minutes into the time trial and that car would then come for your system in the next 20, 30 minutes after that.

Starting point is 00:24:16 So that was my strategy. I imagine that hasn't changed much because days like today is just pure car burning. 30 K time trial. Are you drinking anything on the time trial? A big swig of something, yeah. Just one big swig and you chuck it or put it back? Yeah, so a very concentrated carbohydrate mix. But so only one swig, like half way?

Starting point is 00:24:35 Yeah. Wow. Just parched. The idea is you're well hydrated before that. Today's show also brought to you by Ketone IQ, also our presenting sponsor each and every day. We talk a lot about the use of ketones in the Peloton. The interesting update is they've really upped their game on flavor and other options. There are caffeinated options and multiple flavor options, which to me has been amazing.

Starting point is 00:25:03 My wife is hammering these things at home, like, hmm, they'll taste better. And it absolutely works. Also, a lot of science and research going on behind the use of ketones. The numbers don't lie. An improvement of 13% in peak power, 19% in sprint power, cutting fatigue, spiking blood ketones. They've also recently teamed up with Team Visa, Leesa Bike, and KU Leuven Soccer Club in Belgium. A lot of the research on both of those programs. Take your shot! Get 30% off your subscription plus a free gift with your second shipment at ketone.com slash the move. Last one of the day, it is time for the timeline.

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Starting point is 00:26:42 Let's talk about tomorrow. Tomorrow's stage? All right, what do we do? Let's do tomorrow's stage because I'm excited about these, right? Some of these days you're like, ah, what's tomorrow? You open it up, board, flat, field, sprint.

Starting point is 00:26:55 I gotta be honest, I'm like, ugh. I'll sleep in a little bit. Tomorrow's gonna be a lot like yesterday. All right, if you look at, let's pull up tomorrow's profile. Now just, and again, pull up tomorrow's profile. And again, just look at the profile. It looks like a saw blade.

Starting point is 00:27:11 You can look at the very top. Total elevation gain, this is in meters, 3,550 meters. That is 11,000 feet. I think in your mind, if you hear 11,000 feet, you think they're already in the mountains. This is far, far from the mountains. It's never flat, 11,000 vertical feet of climbing. Then if you zoom in to the final 10 kilometers, more or less, 13 kilometers, look at this finish. And you said it, Sir Bradley.

Starting point is 00:27:40 As soon as I showed you that, you said, well, another stage for Tade. Look at that finish. It's 14, pieces of 14%. On average, the final 700m is 10.2% to the finish line. It is perfect for him. Then back to what you said, George, I'm totally with you. At this point, you're like, all right, guys, we've got to play possum. You can play possum most of the day, but you can't play possum with a final of 700m at over 10%. Hill, so the question is, will Tade's team control it?

Starting point is 00:28:15 Big ask. Sixth stage of the Tour de France. They have 15 stages to go. Tade's on great form. Super confident that once he reaches the mountains, he'll be able to get it back if they decide to let to go. Tadej's on great form, super confident that once he reaches the mountains he'll be able to get it back. If they decide to let it go, I mean I'm thinking they let a breakaway go and a breakaway wins this. I would be really surprised if they put UAE on the front to control that. Maybe Alpecin wants to control it for Vannepol, but I don't know. I can't envision that. And think about this. I don't hate that I can't envision that. And think about this. I don't hate that.

Starting point is 00:28:45 Think about this, there's guys today that, yeah, they had to ride steady, pretty hard, but some of them lost six, seven minutes. So these guys that wanna make tomorrow's breakaway, they were very conscientiously trying to recover today, just ride the time trial, spin the legs out, openers for tomorrow, they're gonna be starting this stage, I mean, full gas, war to make that breakaway.

Starting point is 00:29:07 Fresh legs, they're gonna be going all out. Well, here's what we'll do. Well, I'm gonna throw it to Spencer, get his views on whether or not a breakaway can go and stay away. But first, sir Bradley, breakaway go and stay away? I'm going for Tade again. And I think the natural speed of the Peloton will make it difficult.

Starting point is 00:29:27 There's the nervousness again. Everyone's going to want to be in the front again. These climbs all day, I just don't think we're far enough into the race yet for everyone to just have a truncaled day. I think it's going to be game on tomorrow. Let's not forget. Typically, these breakaways go, it's a really hard, punchy, lumpy start there. But I believe, 20k in, you have the one and only point sprint of the day.

Starting point is 00:29:52 Like you said, that's just going to naturally make the speed a lot higher. Even if a breakaway gets away in the first 10k, the speed of the sprinters behind going for this point sprint is going to bring them back. You can go either way, I think the breaker will go, but like you said, there is gonna be a really high pace. And I've had, and I spent a lot of time thinking about this last night,

Starting point is 00:30:13 because I've always, when I think about Spencer, he really is, he's like certainly the smartest person sitting down here in this studio. And I call him, I just sort of flippant, the propeller head. You know, it's funny. I started thinking, is that mean? Should I not say that?

Starting point is 00:30:32 It feels a little like. Do you not hear the shit you say to me? And you're too worried about propeller heads. I know, but I've known you a long time. Spencer's been in my life for, I don't know, a handful of years. And I'm not lying. I did have a moment last night.

Starting point is 00:30:46 It feels a little harsh. I thought, what else can I call him? Maybe like Professor Martin. Spencer, you can tell me. But anyhow, I'm curious what Professor Martin thinks about it. Professor, do you think that a breakaway can get away and stay away tomorrow? Frankel I've got to admit, I haven't really considered it a breakaway day. But I agree with Bradley. I think the pace is going to be so high. These guys are so keyed up. They're certainly in the race. And then you look at the GC, the gaps are massive already. Let's look at Tobias Hollen Johansen. He's almost four minutes back.

Starting point is 00:31:26 What happens if he gets in the move? That's not going to be giving a lot of room to go. People are going to start chasing to defend their potential 10th place on GC. I just think it's going to be hard for them to get the room. The question is, who works? Is UAE really going to get on the front and set the pace? That seems like they probably want to get rid of the jersey if possible. I think someone steps forward.

Starting point is 00:31:48 We see this. Johan and I talk about this all the time on Outcomes. You just see it over and over again where people don't like you. You're like, why would they work, but they end up doing it anyway? Spencer, I know Johan, for instance, would want a guy like Tobias on Stage 6 to take the yellow jersey. Why? He's got a super strong team that can essentially sit on the front for the next week and keep the yellow jersey.

Starting point is 00:32:11 And two, Pokitra will put minutes on him on the first mountain day. So if it was me and I know Johan would do the same thing, would want a guy like that to take the yellow jersey for five, six, seven stages just to relieve his squad and take the pressure off. Well, we know what Johanna would do. And it's too hard.

Starting point is 00:32:32 The finish is too hard for Vanderpool, 700 meters at over 10%. It's a question. I wouldn't say it's too hard for him. He'll certainly be in the mix if he wanted to be, but he's had a tough couple of days. I'm thinking about yesterday. He's had a couple of times.

Starting point is 00:32:44 If it were yesterday, I think he didn't have the legs to do that. I think he can't put anything past him in the way he's riding. If he's there, he was next to Tade, he was the strongest guy. I mean, Tade, Jonas and Vanderpool were the strongest guys on these shorter steep climbs. And not to get ahead of ourselves, but if you are Matthew Vanderpool, tomorrow might be a day where you say, look, this is probably not perfect for me. Day after, two times up the Mirta Bertania

Starting point is 00:33:13 is perfect for him. So, slight day off, focused two days from now. Well, I mean, Mirta Bertania is just as hard as this stuff if you look at it. So, I think the next two days are perfect for Vanapol if he decides to go for the win. Hilliard How many tours do you think Indurine would have won in today's era of short individual time trials?

Starting point is 00:33:47 Mason-Larsen I mean, it's a good question. And there's some plausibility in the argument that Miguel may not have won five. But there was also a misconception about Miguel Indurain that he won the tour in the time trials. And I recommend anyone go back and watch some stages, particularly the 1994 Tour de France where he gets beat in the last time trial by Peter Ugramov in the Mountain Time Trial. That year he stamped his authority in that Tour de France on Hotecam and rode from the front, dropped Pantani, Kiepwetje, Vieronc, Dufaut. The only person

Starting point is 00:34:21 who stayed with him was Luc LeBlanc. 1995 he attacks a déliier with Johann Brunel, the only one who could stay on his wheel. Mason-Reed Rode him right off. Toby And then 1995 Tour de France also, Zola did a massive break in the mountains to La Plagne, and Indurain was, the gap was quite big, and Zola looked like he was gonna take the tour from him. Indurain got on the front of the bottom of La Plagne and rode the whole race off his wheel. This guy was extraordinary, and you can only train up to the demands of the event.

Starting point is 00:34:57 If the time trials weren't in there, Miguel would have changed his strategy. Miguel, numero uno. He was a fantastic climber. Fantastic, for sure. Nice guy too, he was always really nice. Number one. He was a fantastic climber. Yeah, fantastic For sure nice guy too. It was always really nice. Oh wonderful. Yeah, and I've heard our Johan's been keeping me Apprised he's back on the bike. He's doing all these fondos. He's kicking people's asses in these fondos. You imagine that You just roll up some fondo

Starting point is 00:35:21 Like my orca these huge fondos big big shows up Just we did an hour and a half ride yesterday and you said you never want to ride with me again You explained that? Yeah, I mean yet Anyways, you're right class class guy and I'm with you sir Bradley like Easy to look at him and say see the size Compared to certainly compared to the other guys and think, well, he's not a climber. Many of those years, he was not only a good climber, he was the best climber.

Starting point is 00:35:50 So, it is a great question, Simon. Hill, so was he your inspiration when you were winning the tour? Kline Yeah, without a doubt. I said on Spanish TV during the 2012 tour that Miguel was my hero, and I modeled myself on him. Miguel sent me his, you know, they do for the bull run these red stars from Neckerchief, the family emblem on it and signed it, which is a huge honor to receive. That's amazing. Wow.

Starting point is 00:36:13 Yeah. I still have it. The running of the bulls. Yeah. So they have their own family crest on these when they all wear these handkerchief things that go out when they're running the bull. And he gave me his family one. It's like a real honor to receive that. So yeah, Miguel came to my hour record. He was trackside when I broke the hour record. That's awesome. What a guy. What a guy.

Starting point is 00:36:31 Also, to start to wrap up the show, we've got our Ventum Daily Trivia. Yesterday's question, while not a famous summit in the tour, Stage 4 features the Cote Jacques-Encatil, a 2.6 category 4 climb named after the great French cyclist Jacques-Encatil. What two things did Encatil accomplish to get this climb named in his honor? First was, he won the Tour de France five times. He probably should get a couple of climbs named after himself. He was also the first to do the Giro Tour double. First ever. Question for today for the Ventum Trivia of the Day. The Stage 5 individual time trial would have been a likely boon for time trial specialist

Starting point is 00:37:18 Sir Bradley Wiggins. How many total Grand Tour individual time trial stages did he win over the course of his career? Grand Tour time trial victories. Is that including team time trials? Individual. Just individual? Individual.

Starting point is 00:37:38 Closing the name. And so that is the question of the day. We were just kind of chatting before the show and you brought up, as you do many, many days, a fun fact. Bernard, you know, one 20 individual time trials. I, of course, had no idea how many time trials I won. Spencer, somebody looked it up. 11. 11. I was going to say eight. Two of which were prologues. I mean, I can't even remember. Somebody told me an hour ago.

Starting point is 00:38:05 Eleven. That's kind of cool. Send us your questions. These are two good ones today. Thanks, Alan and Simon. Send those questions to info at wedo.team. And we will be back tomorrow for an exciting day. I love it. I love looking ahead and seeing this

Starting point is 00:38:26 and going, can't wait to get up and watch that. All right, thanks for tuning in, everybody.

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