THEMOVE - Tour de France 2026 Route Reveal Breakdown | THEMOVE

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

Lance, Johan, and Spencer break down the newly unveiled 2026 Tour de France route, stage by stage. They dissect the key climbs, time trials, and transition days, debate how tough the race really is, who the course favors, and what early storylines could define next July’s battle for yellow. ROKA: Listeners can enter code THEMOVE at checkout to receive a 20% discount on their first order at https://www.roka.com/themove NordVPN: Get your Exclusive NordVPN deal here → https://nordvpn.com/themove It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! Huel: Huel makes healthy eating simple. They also just launched into Target stores nationwide! Try both products today with FIFTEEN PERCENT off your purchase for New Customers with our exclusive code THEMOVE at https://www.huel.com/THEMOVE. Helix Sleep: Get 27% off all orders as part of Helix's Fourth of July Best of Web offer. Visit https://HelixSleep.com/TheMove and make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you!

For as long as I can't remember, Lance, you know, every time the, the route comes out, come out, and, you know, it's good for climbers. Oh, you know, back in your days. Oh, you know, it's, it's for climbers. So are you guys okay? I said, well, last time I checked Armstrong was a pretty good climber. Yeah. No, but, you know.

The last time I checked, he was the best climber. Hey, good morning, everybody. Welcome back to the Move podcast. We're talking about the 2026, Stewart of France. Today they revealed the course in Paris, as they do every year in October. It's always, I actually only went to,

you know how to remind me. I think I only went to one of them. One in person. But it's a big deal. you know this is kept in secret as we talk about a lot during the summer this is uh this is the tour to france this is this is owned by the armory family they they can do whatever they want right the course i get a lot of questions actually in my daily life of the of the course and a lot of people kind of think it's basically the same every year i'm like no no no no it changes a lot every year so it's a big

surprise. And today was the day they revealed the route. Now, full transparency. It is also going to be a big surprise to me because I haven't necessarily gone through this thing stage by stage. Of course, I am joined by Johann Brunel and our professor, Spencer Martin. They have gone through it day by day, mile by mile, kilometer. We got some interesting tidbits. But while you all are learning about the 2026 tour of France. Yours truly is going to take this opportunity to learn as well. So, Johan, how are you doing over there? Today show brought to you by Roka, my good friends right here in Austin, Texas. They have completely reinvented not just the sunglass category, but all eyewear across the board, love them. Their prescription glasses, by the way, are the exact same

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Head on over to NordVPN.com slash the move. That's Nord. That's in ORD. NordVPN.com slash the move. It's risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee, NordvPN.com slash the move. I'm good, good. In Madrid, all good here. And, yeah, I went on a bike ride this morning and came back home to see the course. So it's, yeah, it's going to be an interesting, I mean, listen, we say the same thing every year, right?

It's, is it good for this guy? Is it good for climbers at the end of the day? it's the strongest guy who wins and you know we don't need to I mean spoil it it's going to be the same guys again in the front but I think it's an interesting course that ASO has produced here okay well just while you say that and while and before we say hi to Spencer I mean just your initial impression you're given in my hearing you say that Johann Brunel gives his blessing or or gives it two thumbs up? Well, do I have a choice?

No, but, I think it's an interest. Of course you have a choice. You could say, you can say the route is dog shit. I don't know. No, no, it's okay. It's okay.

I think it's nice. Especially because it's, you know, backloaded. You know, the hardest stages are really at the end. So although we all know that there's one big favorite, the suspense will stay, or the uncertainty will stay until the end because stage 18, 19, and 20 are extremely hard. Johan, are we worried about this back, this last week?

I mean, what have we seen in recent years where we have difficult final weeks and everyone just sits tight? You know, that that's a little bit my concern when I saw this, that when you have like these three consecutive brutal mountain stages in the final week, no one's going to roll the dice trying to. And also, it's like, who does this course favor? Well, probably Teddy Pogacra, because he's the best writer in the world. But are we worried people are just going to sit tight to try to survive the final three days. That was the first thing that stuck out to me when I saw this, that like, ooh, is this going to be a little bit of a sleepwalk into the final three days? I don't think so. I don't think.

Obviously, you have to save and be strategically, you know, smart about the last week. but it also, I think normally after one or two mountain stages, we will see the differences. And let's be clear, you know, we have seen in the last, I mean, basically all the ground tours where Pogacchar and Jonas Wingerard participated, they are head and shoulders above everybody else. And today is still a level ahead. But we won't really know for certain who's going to win until stage 20,

because a lot of things can happen. I think that's that's the point and that's basically probably also the reason why they decided to have these two or three Alp stages really at the end. Well, as the guy who doesn't know a whole lot, I know a few things. I mean, I know that the race starts in Barcelona. I think that's, I mean, I think that's cool. I mean, obviously, you know, I have a little bit of PTSD from going in there. What was it, Yon, 2009? 2009, yeah.

you know you're riding through a big city um we had some rain that day in Barcelona it's obviously way too far out to be talking about the weather but I'll never forget that day yeah it was hard it was very praying yeah that I would stay on my bike which I'm assuming everybody else was saying the same prayer um but um you know goes through gerona I think that's cool nice little nice little tip of the gap to all the professional cyclists that live there. Two times, Alp de Wez, that's a curveball. Yeah. All right.

Outside of that, I'm, I'm all there as fellows. Yeah. Well, it's, you know, it starts in Barcelona. It starts with a team time trial. So it's been a while since the Tour de France had a team time trial, 19 kilometers only. It's on the, so starts in Barcelona, they go to Montjuic, and they, I guess they do. a loop there on that circuit but the difference with other time trials is that this time they've done this experiment already a few times in Paris Nice is that the time is taken on the first rider

not on the fourth rider or the fifth rider back in the days was the fifth rider I guess now with eight riders it's the fourth rider now this is only one rider so basically you could see this as a lead out a team leading out their leader and then that leader going at the end and either by himself or with, you know, the second leader or whoever can stay with that guy. So I think that's interesting. In their interest to keep as many guys, right, let's just use Pogacar and you A.E as an example, right?

And we were kind of riffing in the pre-show with, you know, say a del Toro comes, for example, right? I mean, you would want those guys. Obviously, you want Tade to go as hard as he can. And you would want all of these other guys to stay on his wheel as long as possible. By the way, too, I mean, you say only 19 kilometers, right? There is a part of me that says, we knew that it was starting with a team time trial, but there's a part of me that thought, oh, is this one of these seven, eight kilometer kind of, you know, back massages that they can start these things with?

19K is, I get it. It's not, you know, it's not old school where we're going 50, 60 kilometers. But, you know, I mean, you can see a world where there are some teams that are going to lose 30 seconds. Yeah, maximum. Yeah. Well, is it going to be at nighttime, Johan? Remember Barcelona? They did it after dark.

Yeah, it was like pitch black. That was in the Vuelta, right? In the Vuelta, yeah. Yeah, and yeah, that was really, really bad. It's not the same time of the year, of course. You know, this was September. Now it's, now it's July. I guess they're going to, but, you know, in the Vuelta, when they did in Barcelona, they didn't, they didn't count on the weather changing and all of a sudden was pitch black, raining.

Anyway, 19 kilometers we saw in the Vuelta now this year. There was a team, was it more or less the same, I think? Was it 17, 19 kilometers? The time, the time gaps were very, very small. So I expect more or less the same, you know, these big teams are very, very, very. equal in terms of collective strength and it's basically the top guy that makes the difference so um it's it's i think it's a nice start uh but it's definitely not going to be decisive back in the day lance you know when we had these 50 60 kilometer team time trials i

remember my first two de franz i did i think the team time trial was 78 kilometers oh lord jeez you know i mean there you that was i mean if you were only a minute down that was like a huge success, you know. Right. Now we're talking about 10, 15, 20 seconds, basically. Yeah. Should we, I don't know if we mentioned that this team time trial has two climbs. So they go Manjouique, which is famous from the Catalonia, Volta Catalonia. And the world championships have been there. Jewish Mountain, I believe is what it means. And they descend down and then climb again to the Olympic Stadium. So there's two climbs. One is a kilometer long at 5.4%. The final climb, 700 meters at 8%. The reason this is interesting with

the rule you just described, time on the first rider. So some riders, like let's say, I don't know, Remko Evanapult. I guess he'll have Florin Lipowitz on his team. That's going to be an interesting battle. But, you know, maybe Jonas Finnegaard doesn't have anyone that can get over Monge week with them because you have to make a calculation of do I go as fast as I can and drop my teammates or do I nurse a teammate over is that worth to have a teammate for the final three and a half four kilometers to help me and but do you think pagacha is going to be so low over that climb probably not so like right there you're like give a give a big advantage to pagach because he's going to have someone on his team that can probably get over that climb with him whether it be del toro or someone

else yeah i think yorgensen will be will be with jonas if you know i think i think that's the second best guy, especially for that kind of effort. So I think they're kind of equal these teams. You know, if I look at Visma and UAE today, I wouldn't say one is more favorite than the other. Of course,

I think Pogacar is probably going to win because he's more explosive than Jonas, especially on those short clams. But wait, wait, wait one second. Do you think at this year's tour, Vizma was just a short. strong as you ae i mean on in team time trial i don't know who i mean yorgensen was sick i guess but that that complicated it but i don't think yonis would have had anyone getting over that

climb with them this year right yeah i mean if you if yorgensen is in good shape i think i think he's number two there and uh listen uae is is obviously the better team but uh but it's not like they're going to make make a big difference in that in that first stage already that's a very very good point because what do we see at the vault of this year time trial and it was think tom pickock think how weak that team is relative to the others what did they lose like 20 seconds maybe 26 seconds or something so yeah probably minimal time gaps yeah for sure um should we say that it's 21 stages so if you don't know the two difference 21 stages eight mountain stages This is from ASO.

I haven't, we haven't been able to go through the profiles because they don't release all of them. Five summit finishes, seven flat stages, whatever that means, four hilly stages, which are probably pretty hard. When the profiles come out, we can kind of take a deeper look at that. And then 54,000 meters of vertical climbing is what they're saying. That probably will change once the GPS, everyone's able to lock into those GPS files. But that's quite a bit more climbing than this year's tour, which was around 40, 8,000 meters of climbing. Will it make it harder?

That's hard to tell just from this. But it does start pretty tough, Joanne, because you're describing this team time trial. But then stage two, there's also a funny tour because you have two stages that finish in the same place. So the first stage finishes in Barcelona, second stage finishes in Barcelona, and then 19 and 20 finish in the same place, Abduaz.

But stage two is hard. And then you have a summit finish. You go straight to the Pyrenees from Barcelona. So hard start to the race. Yeah, and the third stage already is, I mean, it's not a high mountain stage, but in my opinion, it's a mountain stage. You know, you go over La Molina, you go to Font Remieux, which is all the time uphill, and it's finished on an unknown climb, but it's not a, but, you know, you have to be on the top of your game from day one in this Tour de France, which, you know, nowadays is basically you have to be every single grand tour on day one. But yeah, stage three already, listen, if you're not 100%, you're in trouble in stage three. Yep.

And some concentration in the Massif Central as I sit here and look at the map on the official site. I mean, if you count that stage into Bergerac, Bergerac, whatever you say. Bergerac. Bejarac. You know, three, four, five stages, right? Just right in the middle, just a little transition days. that's where I mean you talk about adding going from 48,000 total meters of climbing to 54,000. I mean, days like that just constantly, you're just adding up the meters ofvert pretty quickly.

Yeah, I think one of the hardest stages of the tour also is, I mean, probably maybe not in total elevation, but if you look at stage 10, it's in the Massif Central and that's this, that's the stage where it's almost identical stage where you remember when last year, 2004, when Pogacha attacked, ran out of the gas, Jonas came back, beat him in the sprint. Yeah. It's that finish and those climbs. That's just in the middle of the tour. But, you know, to go back to the first week, stage six in the Pyrenees,

real huge mountain stage, you know, Aspen Turmalet from the Mongee side. And then they go down and they go on finishing on a not very steep climb, but already, you know, high Pyrenees already. in state six. Which is a departure from this last year where it was, we should also say part of the reason we probably spent so much time in the north at the beginning of this year's

tour is because we don't go north of, if you set aside Paris, like we really don't go north of the Alsace or Massive Central. So we're totally ignoring Brittany, Normandy, all those regions up there. We do go to five mountain stages. I guess not what the finish is. or we sorry mountain mountain ranges we go to the pyrenees the alps the jura the massie central and then my favorite the vogue did you see the markstein is back yohan stage was at 14 that's 14 yeah that's we got your one the last time they were there he did win there yeah exactly yeah after

it was cracked yeah so do you think it's a ridiculous question does this route help pagacha are more or less than this last year's route or does it not matter i don't think it matters at this point i mean this pogacha doesn't matter doesn't matter especially also i mean he's the best by far and he has the strongest team by far yeah yeah and the thing that would stop him for being completely honest is chaos and crashes right like something does this route with its hard start and then you settle in to let's say from stage five to stage 12 you really settle into the meat of the sprint stages will that make the sprint stages less or more chaotic you think what did you say there's seven flat stages or no no from stage five to stage 12 that's where most of the seven yeah

yeah i said there's seven yeah flat whatever this was not really flat obviously but stages where sprinters could win and most of those are in the middle and so i would think that probably settles the sprinters down you get less remember that like carnate like Phillips and crashing it was like really hectic in the first few days up in the north of this year's tour i'd imagine we get less of that do you think that's right um i mean it tended to be that way um now you would say okay there's a team time trial there's a hard stage on stage three in stage six it's already a gc day so after that everybody knows their place but you know

the sprinters have to do their job you know and there's many teams that go with just a sprinter that's their main their main goal if you look for example a team like Alpacin right they're going to go with with Philipson and

probably Van der Poole I don't know but that's where they have to do their job in the middle in those you know between stage five and stage 12 and there's other teams too little track for example with, you know, with Peterson and Milan, if they're both going, I don't know.

Many other teams with sprinter, so it's still going to be hectic. I mean, nowadays, I think cycling does not slow down, Spencer. It's full gas from stage one till stage 21. The speeds are always super high. Milan, Pedersen, I use so and Scho and Schalmoza in one team. I got, we got to see that. That would be unbelievable. Lance, Lance, if you.

let's say you're trying to win 2026 tour you're making a comeback you look at this route like what's your first thought like are you excited do you like it do you not like it do you need to see more no i mean i i i uh again just a little bit that i'm that i'm that i know or or i'm starting to learn here i mean i think you just kind of sum it up right if if if if you go from 48 000 total meters avert last year to 54th and that's already telling that's enough i mean right i mean i look if i were uh if i could have my pick you that you'd have longer time try you'd go back old school but that's not happening right we're not going back to 50 60 kilometer team time trials or 50 kilometer individual time trials times

two that that's not happening you you um be plenty hard best man best man's going to win here right and so i would thank god i don't have to go do these things anymore but I would be looking at this saying yeah no problem and John you know what stuck out to me is first individual time trial stage 16 yeah because we've had it in the we've had one in the first week quite a lot for most of these duels between pagachar and vindigard but if you're someone like remco that's a huge disadvantage right it's not a good it's not a good course for a remco yeah um yeah and only 26 kilometers of which by the way the first 10 kilometers are uphill um so so so you know even fair it's it's it's a g that's a gc day you know by stage 16

you know that's that's just the cc guys who are going to be in the front and time trial specialists have are absolutely not at an advantage there um yeah i was surprised did you guys watch the presentation was it i'm i'm assuming there was some sort of live feed or or or no can watch it i think it's at like three in the morning where i am did you watch you on No, I was on the bike. Okay. We've been exposed. Maybe Johan is the one making it.

Well, I'm curious because, and it doesn't really provide much here on the website, the tour's official website. What did they do with the finish in Paris? Are we going back to the traditional laps on the Champs-Lizze? Are we going to stick? so the circuits up montmartre yeah three times three times up montmartre the only change is that to give a chance to some of the stronger sprinters this time the last time they go up montmartre is 15k from the finish not 6k like like this year so it could potentially be you know I don't know it's I don't think it's going to matter much because those circuits are hard

sprinters are going to interrupt especially if you know if we see the same thing like if Bogot Char's in yellow, wants to win in Paris, you know, he's going to go. And, yeah, there's four or five riders who can follow. So no sprinters. But 15K from the finish now, other than that, it's the same. Back to Murta. Yeah. I love how the tour website just has it, you know, on each of these days.

If they don't have the profile on here, all it says is the length of the stage and the type of stage. So obviously the day before, which you talked about, Johan, is the hardest stage. they have that listed as a mountain stage. The next day into Paris, they just have it listed as a flat stage. Yeah, that's why I had the question. I was like, oh, maybe we went back. Yeah.

Well, that is when they say these flat stages, that tells us right there. You can't pencil those in as sprint stages because I kind of like this idea of tooling with the circuit a little bit year to year, Johan, where I guess it will technically be a little bit easier because it's 15K out. Still probably won't be that easy.

but do you guys miss the do you miss the traditional finish i i don't i did i think i was over that but a lot of people liked it i think it was a great show last i mean i mean we all we all thought that in real time yeah initially initially i said yeah three or four months later no we i think it's good i think it's nice it was fantastic yeah i don't know what they'll do with the time stopages and the that was really the the biggest head of but the the spectacle i thought was 10 out of 10 yeah i agree is that the first time is that the only time pagatra's been dropped and since 2023 that stage it might be actually can you think of anything yohan it's not me i mean it's not really getting dropped i mean you get getting dropped he got dropped he was on the

He's been fighting for 21 days and Van Art, obviously, he's done his job, but he was focusing on the stage. We just gloss over that part, yeah, that Van Art was. But hey, listen, Van Art is one of the very few who was able to draw distance Bogachar in the last two years, if not the only one. Yeah. Yeah, since, maybe since the stage where Pagaccha fell apart in the Alps, right? Wow. So did you guys, I think we've implied it, but we go. Pyrenees first, Alps second with the Alsace and Jura and Matthews, Massive Central in the middle

there. So, but the last eight stages, six of them are G.C. days. And that's if you assume that they neutralize the time on the final stage. If they don't, the last seven of eight stages could be G.C. days. That's, that puts a lot of importance on stage 14 onwards. That's intense. Look, what do they, they have to do that now we know what happens right that that either makes it incredibly exciting or wildly predictable if pogachar is the guy that we've seen the last several years you know then we're in for a lot of tempo and control and and questioning other team's tactics but but if there's a world where he struggles well then then you open the race opens up and it's incredibly dynamic and we all think back to this day and think about how brilliant they were to design it this way.

Now, that's why they have the race and who knows. I mean, I think we could all guess how he's going to show up and perform. But the potential is there to make it really explosive. Yeah. Even if what's going to happen to is I haven't listened to, I haven't consumed media about this yet. But I guarantee you what people are going to say and what's going to happen during the race. is, they're going to wheel out the old horse of, oh, Pagotcha's not good in the third week of Grand Tours, Johan.

He's, look at him last year at the tour. He was, he was suffering through that final week. He couldn't even drop Jonas. So you're going to get, like, that's not true, by the way. He had a four and a half minute lead going into the last week and his knee was hurt. Of course, he wasn't going to go into attack. But when he needs to, he's a killer in the final week. But this allows people to have that narrative and that hope through the race.

And I guarantee you we're going to be bombarded by that. We're probably going to say it on the show next year. No, we're not going to say that. But what I will say, let me just warn the listener, right? No matter what you go and read, this is, I'm being serious here, right? No matter what you go and read, I don't care where you read it. Most likely, if not, almost certainly, whoever wrote that article has no fucking clue what they're talking about.

I'm just telling you. Right? They're just sitting there bored, their little keyboard warriors. They're going to make this stuff. up. They don't know a break away from a baguette. They never been there and they never been in the trenches. They never, they don't know what it is. So don't listen to that. Yeah, no. I mean, it's, it's every, every year, I mean, for as long as I can't remember Lance, you know, every time the, the, the, the, the, the root comes out, come out and, you know, it's good for climbers.

Oh, you know, back in your days. You know, it's, it's for climbers. So are you, are you guys okay. I said, well, last time I checked, Armstrong was a pretty good climber. Yeah. Yeah. No, but, you know, the last time I checked, he was the best climber. But it's a really, it's a really good point because working in, when I used to work inside the system, the media system, it is like this, it's almost a brainwashing of media members where it's like, well, like Lance isn't a good climber. It's like, he's the best climber in the race. Like, what are we talking about? It's the same. It's the same. same thing with pagachar people say the same stuff it's like oh i don't know it's a hard climb that's not good for him it's same thing what you said like you said it about remco like it's a bad route for him but to be the best like to win a tour every route's got to be good for you like you can't like there's

no route they could design that's bad for pagachar like once you're at that level where you can win the tour there's no route that can stop you no for sure i guess unless it was 21 sprint stages and time bonuses the side of the race that would be the look i mean if you're I mean, if you're, if you're Tate, you're, by the way, was he there? Do we know if he was in the... No, no, no, no, no. No, nobody's got better stuff to do. Okay, good.

Good for them. He's looking at his chops. Yeah. He's looking at this going, oh, baby, it's time to eat. But, I mean, really, this is... If you look at the situation, guys, you know, like, okay, the favorite is obviously, it's the same guy. huge favorite is pogachar huge favorite for second is yonas you know as i said these two are way above everybody else um and then who else i mean do you do you remember do you guys remember

who was third in the tour it was florian lippowitz i think about it every day my favorite writer but yeah that's that's it's a good point nobody remembers that and he's not is even going to be at this race joan i think so i think so but you know i mean it's fourth for example but fourth was Oscar only. Fifth was Felix. I mean, none of those guys are going to even come close to Pogacar and Jonas.

And then the really good news for Jonas and the bad, for Pogacar and the bad news for the other guys is if we say Pogacar's number one, Jonas number two in ground tours, number three and four are probably on Pugachar's team. Well, and that's Deltoro and Almeida.

But hold on. And there is going to be a point in time where somebody, year over year, whether that's, it could be Oscar Anley, it could be, it could be any of these guys. Year over year, they make a massive improvement. That's what athletes do. And the flip side of that is, and look, I think it's, Tade is not going to make a massive improvement. He might get a little better, but we're seeing the best of the, the best of his lifetime, which is the best of all time. Jonas is, we're seeing the best of Jonas and probably starting to, you know, to see a decline.

But you could have one of these outliers that really has one of these off seasons or one of these shifts in his career where he's just a lot better. And who knows, right? Tade might at some point the fuel in the tank runs out and it's going to happen at some point. of course it is now we just we're guessing when that might be but and we'd spend a lot of time guessing this right guys are starting younger the careers are starting younger there's so much better so much younger does that does that mean that they then start to decline earlier in life we don't know right and so but if if if if you could imagine in a world where you know today is a few percentage points off and a kid like only all of a sudden is this this guy that had a hell of a tour and it ignited something within him and I don't know but so we can hope

yeah I think I think I think the the the guy who will challenge today is not up there yet it's not Oscar only it's not Felix Gall it's not Lipovich it's you know I don't know I also let's say it's all say sas maybe you know Paul yeah but Paul Paul Paul Paul is he's pretty a pretty good writer yon but i think del toro del toro to me he took the end of his like the guy wipes out at the zero like wow what a what a mess up like throws away grand tour and then he comes back and has an amazing season like the last half of his season he blew me away that i think that's the guy that is eventually going to challenge him the problem is they're on the same team that's an issue but for the moment they can still they can still live together that's come there's come a point

But I think probably that by the time that Del Toro gets to that point, it's maybe going to be time for today to say, okay, guys, I'm taking it easy. I'm out of here. But what stops actually most people, like Lance did do that, just walked away after winning, but most of these guys that win a lot of, a lot of tours, grand tours, it's injuries. Think of Chris Frum, like he was maybe declining. Then he has to crash. He doesn't win and then he can't get back.

Like, same thing with your favorite, both of your guys' best friend, Alberto Contador. Remember, he just started to get the crash bug and then he's really hurt, like really bad crashes and he just isn't the same after that. I think eventually, I'm not wishing it upon him, but eventually that's probably what will happen. It just happens to a lot of athletes. You get older, you get hurt. You can't train as hard. You can't come back.

Accidents is one thing. I think in Bogachar's case, listen, I'd be hope he doesn't happen in a crash or injury, but I think it's mental burnout. It's just not being able to deal anymore with all the stress and everybody's chasing you and everybody wants a piece of you. What about Cavendish though? When Lance retired in 2005 physically,

I mean, he was probably stronger than ever. You know, 2004, 2005, he was at the strongest in the tour. But it was just enough. You know, you just can't deal with it anymore. And I can see signs of that already now in Pogacar. at this age. So, I mean, Lance, you were Pogacar's age when you won your first tour. That's crazy.

That is crazy. Well, yeah. I'm with you, Johan. I mean, and I just caught a little bit of this reading the press about some of the races towards the end of the season where, you know, for whatever reason, right? The public, the fans on the side of the road have just sort of have just kind of. kind of turned against him, right? And for no, and look, I've been there, right?

And I, the little bit that I read about it, I actually thought even more about it. You know, I gave them a reason to turn. He hasn't given them a reason other than just dominating, right? It doesn't matter, right? If they're turning against you because they see smoke and fire, like they did in my case, it's the same as them turning it against you because they're sick of you winning it doesn't matter

they're saying the same shit on the side of the road day in day out i can tell you you still get the job done no part of me and no part of him will say you know what i'm i'm gonna sit up today he's not going to do that he's going to go win but at the end of the day and at the end of the tour and at the end of the season you're going to go how much do i want to do this right Because my brain is wired and my psyche, my whole athlete's mindset is wired to win. I don't care what anybody says. But I can also go do something else or not do this once my job is done. I feel for him there.

I have a ton of empathy for him there. And maybe the offseason is this sort of reset. We're going to find out come the spring. We will certainly find out come July. but there is nobody that has a robotic brain that's just like I can't hear anything this doesn't affect me it does affect you yeah and and I've also been in a similar position where you're just you're just drubbing people day in day out year in you're out and you're kind of going all right I did it like you want to keep beating people like it it it starts this this sounds almost pathetic I mean it just kind of kind of gets old. Yeah. This is a side gig, though.

He does have a full-time job of trying to win classics. Yeah. He's got that. Yeah, as we said, it's not the same. It's not, that is the side hustle, but that's not nearly as,

no. Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to predict Spencer and Lance that, you know, Bogacha is racing until 2008. And that's it.

He's got to win. he's he has four more things to win you know we said it in the in the in the podcast he has milan san remo bari ruby um the voelta volta he just needs to show up and then the olympic games and after that it's done and then he's won everything there is to win if only we could get that just got to make sure that course is designed well enough at the olympics for pagachar i have a little you know a little birdie has has given me a little sneak peek of L.A. 28, nobody listening

and Taday Pogachar does not need to worry about this about it being too easy. If anybody's ever been to Los Angeles, just look around. There's a lot of mountains there. The total vert will be staggering. Yeah, yeah. But you're not going to do the Dana Point Criterium course.

Just do it's 90-minute crit. Before we go, The start might not be far from Dana Point. So don't, don't rag on Dana Point too much. That's my, that's, I mean, that's my arena, the Dana Point Criterium. Also today brought to you by Huell. What does a busy morning or day look like for you? Rocking and rolling, going from one thing to the next, no time to eat.

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that is helix sleep.com slash the move and make sure you enter our show name after checkout so the name know that we sent you. See how casual. Look, what's missing? What's missing here? We've,

our fearless diva. Oh, George, who by the way was at the presentation and, you know, what time is it in Paris? It's six, uh, six, oh, let me guess. It's fancy dinner time. He's on the top of some swanky hotel, sipping champagne.

Gee, we miss you. But I do, I do want Johan to answer that question. Also, I'm curious. And I'm always just kind of humbled and excited to know that if anybody's ever written out to West, they list the winners on each of the switchbacks and yours truly. still has his name on there which is kind of cool i guess for this one they're going to have to have back to back right you're going to have the yeah you're going to because you have the winner and the year right and imagine i mean maybe maybe it's might be the same person so then it says

you know 26 26 but you're going to have uh you're going to have two different signs yeah it's a different it's a different approach it's a different way of climbing out the west so for the first they do the they do the switchbacks and then the last the last day they come from another side okay so then that answers our sign question all right i'm going to go jump on this thing you guys keep jamming you don't need me all right well we'll see you thank you so much thanks man hey this has been fun george we miss you sir bradley we miss you sir bradley's out promoting his book is the book out yet johan on the 23rd so today today actually today comes out.

That's, you know, that's a, that's a good day to have it drop. Actually, I caught a snippet. Yohan, you actually sent me the snippet. Holy moly, folks. Yeah. Let me tell you. Heavy story. This is an incredibly heavy story.

I thought I knew the story. Yeah. Well. I didn't know anything about this story. I mean, you want to, I mean, sit down. Let me just tell you, sit down. and sit in a quiet room. This is an incredibly heavy, dark story.

And so good for him, right? A lot of love and respect and admiration for him. This is not what I thought I knew it. I didn't know it. This is dark, depressing. Hard to read, frankly. And incredibly courageous. I'm going to say that again.

incredibly courageous to put these words down on paper unbelievable sure yeah and so sir bradley i love you we all love you incredibly proud of you um and so uh we did not plan to talk about this i don't i can't remember how it came up but it's it's real this this is real i mean this hit you right between the ice all right and so um you will look at yourself in the mirror differently you'll look at your children and your family and your friends and your community and your legacy differently all of you especially you sir bradley um all right i'm out of here thanks guys see you okay okay spencer what do we have to talk about let's let's dive into this out to us well we do have a show tomorrow a show we will be answering questions live

from members if you want to be a member it's in the show notes if you are a member i'll send you an email before the show it's all we're also just in the members portal but you can just click on it going to youtube you can ask us questions in our q and a show but i have a cue for you yohan yeah why what is going on with the two times up abduaz is it just a sell we haven't been what since 2015 we've only so in the last 10 years we've been three times is this just like a celebration of abduz is it so hard logistically to make it happen they're like hey no i've heard i've heard Prudom explained the read I mean as if I if I remember correctly the reason why is that first of all they wanted to keep the suspense until the very end make it really unpredictable or at least you know not know for sure who's going to win until the very last moment so that's why they did this super hard stage which is stage 20 that's it's you know 171 kilometers it's the hardest stage more than five times meters of climbing of the whole tour there's a there's no other stages above 5,000 and they do

call de croix de fere which is a huge climb called the telegraph called the gallibier and then call the sarenne and then go to up the west on another side so they wanted to have that and i'm going to guess that if they if they come from that site so crot of fair telegraph calipier and sarin the only way to get to Up to West is from the backside and then Prudam said well you know if we would have if we would do that the fans would go crazy

do not have the stage okay yeah on the traditional switch pack so that's why they did the short stage on up the west you know one 128 kilometers the day before that's the reason why they did it

yeah that's a that is interesting that's a good reason I assume will they stay in the same hotel rooms that would make it easier right you finish a stage then you go to the start the next morning then you just come back to the same yeah yeah yeah yeah for sure yeah so if you're a logistic logistics heads out there we'll appreciate that thinking but is this the same you remember when they did the double duets in a single stage christoph riblon one if i remember correctly cot t j vanguard and they went up and they descended is this the side they descended yeah yeah it is yeah and have they done this before in the tour

in the tour no in the tour in the tour in the doffine they've done it in the past was that stage or was that 2017 2017 and 2013 do you remember who won that stage in 2017 uh wait it's going to blow your mind doffine i mean blah Uh, no idea. This is like Peak Team Sky, Richie Port, Chris Frum, or Richie Port had gone to BMC. He was the big challenger. Peter Kenya, Kenya. Oh, wow.

Remember him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like a really big talent, huge talent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this might have been the biggest racy one. He was from Isle of Man, I believe. He's from Isle Man, yeah.

Yeah, just like Mark Cavendish. Yeah, huge talent. Wow. I'd forgotten he won that stage. also you guys were doing on 2009 Barcelona I remember it was super rainy you remember who won that stage he's a he's just had a big promotion to the world tour tour who shopped won that stage oh wow yeah I think he was like it was like my favorite writer at the time I don't know why but I remember that stage so well but we don't have to talk about two that that was kind of the

big question I had about up to us but that makes sense why they're why they're doing doing it. Do you think this is going to be a good race to watch? Like we kind of talked about racing it with Lance, but as a spectator, as someone covering it, like we're going to be doing, well, we have a good time. The tour is always nice to watch, Spencer. It's the tour. It's, you know, that's the magic of the Tour de France, no matter how the course is, it's always full gas. There's so much at stake in every single stage that it's for sure. Yeah, I, yeah, it's going to be nice to watch. I'm pretty pretty convinced of that. I like the start. I like that they're mixing the pot with the start. I think that's going to be fun. I like that we then

settle into the sprint stages as opposed to just starting with the sprint stages. I think that second week can tend to be a little bit of a, I don't want to say a chore. It can just kind of get monotonous, but the ends, the butt ends of the race are so hard. I think it will be a nice rhythm in the middle you have some tough messy central stages who do you think is going to be the premier sprinter at this race gc we probably know and then who's the breakout young rider if you'd have picked three people for that um i mean we don't know who's going to participate but you know premier sprinters in my opinion it's phillipson and merlir um i think those two are the fastest guys um although jonathan milan has won the green jersey oh i've saw a report

port somewhere and then afterwards I saw it was corrected but there's there was a rumor initially that every flat stage would have two intermediate sprints who um which was super important for you know the green jersey but then afterwards uh I saw that yeah it was not confirmed or anything um but yeah I mean I think the same guys as always you know uh it's it's I think that the best grand tour sprinter is philipson there's no doubt about that i mean in grand tours he's just on another level he's but it's almost unbelievable how much higher of a love because he's not in non-grant tours they're all good right tim or lear might be better than phillipson but then they get to granteurs and philipson is so much better than everybody else yeah well yeah i mean it's of course there's also going to come a time

where that's not the case anymore well and i think was going back through the changes faster than you think with sprinters. It does. It does. Yeah. Really fast. If you look, for example, look at, look at two guys who were almost unbeatable. And I don't have a fraction of a chance, Jacobson and the Grunewagan. And they were, they were like beasts in sprints, right? And if you look at them now, I mean, we don't, we don't even mention them anymore. They're not in the top five. When we talk about sprinters, they're not there. And they were, I mean, Sam Bennett was almost unbeatable. But in 2020, and no, he doesn't have a contract. Doesn't have a team, yeah.

Yeah. Was that 2020 or 2021? I think it's 2021, probably. He won green in one of those years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and four stages. Yeah, yeah, so he wins green in 2020. And then it just, it's shocking. You go back to stages, tours that you think were not that long ago, and the sprint fields

look completely different, like Greennevegan. Yeah. Greennevegan did win a stage in 2024, but I do wonder if we'll look back at that as this kind of last gas. I mean, maybe he's energized on the new team on the Rose. What is it, Rosebud Rockets? No, it's it's Unibet Rose. Unibet Rose rockets. Yeah.

But I'm curious to see if Phillipson can keep this up, in terms of GC, I assume you think Tadipagachar probably keeps it wrong. Yeah, I mean, without without any. you know unforeseen situation there's nobody close and this would be let's say he wins it would be number five correct would it be his fifth two to the france yeah and do you think do you think there's any maybe he doesn't care do you think he would try to go for seven is that a goal for him i don't think so no i don't think so i think i think i think i think he uh i think he just wants to win every single race there is available of importance. As I said, you know, these four, you know, these four that are left. He's won the tour four times already. Okay. Well, if he wins five, okay, great.

You know, he's there. He's up there with Marx and Indurine and Eno and who's out. Who else is there? Uncatil. And then there's one guy who won seven, you know, that's, and he's for sure not going to win seven in a row or five in a row. You know, me, in the Rhine won five in a row. Lance won seven in a row. So that's already not attainable anymore. But, you know, he's getting so much else. But that's what makes him so unusual is you rarely see someone win a cluster, have an

interruption, and win the cluster again. It's almost, he, he no-esque in a way. Yeah, I mean, it was like he won his first tours and then it was two times Jonas and it was like, okay, is this the end of today's tour to the France series, right? And no, no, he came back and this dominates. now yeah it's it's very unusual and it's what's funny when we talk about the dominance this boring dominance it's like well he actually does have setbacks and i think that's what makes him interesting as a champion because he's so dominant so good and then he'll have setbacks and he comes back

better like yeah i'll i'll give a i'll give a report uh about i mean mid mid-december uh spencer i'll give i'll check in with uh the status because i'm going i'm going with Friends, we're going three, four days to the south of Spain, and they're usually always there at that time. So we'll for sure run into them in UAE and Pogacar on training. I'll give you an update then to let you know how he is. But I can tell you already now, he's going to be flying. I think you, did you ride with him in the offseason before the 2024 season?

No, I didn't ride with him. I was riding. I was riding, minding my own business on what I considered a climb. And they just flew by me, like eight, eight UAE guys like, oh, yeah. So I'm already mentally ready for that to happen again. That was, that was the difference. That's when he turned everything around is that ride. It built his confidence up.

But who do you think is going to be the breakout young star from this tour if you had to pick a rider? I mean, is Paul Seychas going to be there? Is he too young? It would be his first grand tour, right? He hasn't done a grand tour yet. I would not send him to the tour yet. I mean, how old is he right now? He's 19.

He's 19 years old. She was junior last year, Spencer. I would not send him to the tour. I don't think, you know, I would, was listening to an interview of a very smart, you know, how do you say that, like a very intelligent old director, Cyril Guillemar. Do you know Cyril Guimard? Oh, yeah, yeah.

He was director of Fignon and LeMont and, you know, and many other guys. And he gave an interview, and I agree with him. He says, you know, Paul Seychas doesn't have to. go to the tour to learn. He has to go when he's a big talent and he goes, it's to win. It's not to learn. You know, and it happened

it happened a lot, you know, with really big talents like like, like, Pagachar did that. He won his first tour. He no, he won Finion won his first tour. Lamont didn't win his first tour. Bernal won his second tour.

But he was already pretty good in that first tour. Eddie Marks won his first tour. Yeah. It's funny you mention that. Actually, that is how a lot of big stars win their first tour, which you would not, you would think there's some sort of learning curve. Yeah. But it's, you know, you can learn in the zero and in the welta, you know. Well, and a lot of big stars, their first grand tour win is the tour.

You don't, it's actually rare where you see someone building up through the other grand tours. That's why it's good that Del Toro didn't win the zero. means he's going to win the tour. I do think I, because he actually just turned 19, like just recently. So he would be 19 at the tour next year. Yeah. I think that's too young. I wouldn't do it.

Maybe that's old school. Maybe we're stuck in old school thinking. Well, you know, he's on a French team. You know, they probably want to push that. But, you know, I've heard that Deccatlon wants to get away from the French mentality or identity of the team, you know. I've actually heard that, you know, writers who, you know, who signed there, who went there,

have been explicitly told not to learn French. Interesting. I did team management that because that's such a strange director. No, it's, it's true. I was surprised. We don't even want you to know it. It's funny. Not to learn because every,

all the meetings will be done in English and it's going to be a completely different identity. And, uh, yeah. so yeah well yeah yeah i i mean i love france my dad grew up in france it's i'm a i'm a i'm a friend of france but i actually do think there's something to be said for that that stepping outside like forcing yourself into the international community is good from a from a performance standpoint oh yeah and in cycling man it's cycling especially it's cycling because you know i mean lots of french themes they've always been comfortable because the the tour de France is the most important race in the world and they kind of have a guaranteed spot

and it's all about France and you know and they get comfortable and they you know they lose the breakaway yeah not kind of speaking you know they the whole everybody else moves faster and they just get keep stuck in in in the French comfortable mentality is it totally different ecosystem right yeah yeah you can move in slow motion there's no there's no fighter flight basically yeah well we're going to get invited the tour so who cares and then it does i think it does hold you back it's super interesting i would love to do a deep dive on what exactly is going on there i think paul se chas is amazing i do think they shouldn't take them if he doesn't go do you think deltoro goes or no do he's doing this year i think they're going to give del toro the the complete leadership in the

zero you know yeah i would yeah i mean but the thing is also i mean this is also this is also a problem obviously when you have a strong team obviously now you know all the teams have 30 riders uh but i remember back in the days you know we were we had 21 22 riders if you want to say if you want to go to another grand tour with a leader uh it's not easy man to to surround that other leader with a strong team that then also some of those guys need to be performing in the Tour de France. Especially the Giro. You know, if you have, I remember when we had Seville Delhi on the team, he had won the Giro already once. And then in 2005, I think in 2005, yeah, he went to the Gero as the leader and with the objective to win.

And he won. But I was not in a position to really send a very strong team. The team was decent, but definitely not up to the standards of having a grand tour candidate winner, you know. But there's any team that's up for it, I think UAE can handle it. Right. Peel up. Who knows how they'll ride, though. That's a story for another day, though.

Anything else on this tour? And if we've forgotten anything, we'll be back tomorrow. Same time, same place. Yeah, we'll be back tomorrow with the move plus. No, I think we've covered most of it, Spencer. Sure. Yeah, I thought, I think it's an interesting route. I kind of thought they would, you know, they have to shift geographies. They can't just go to the same places all the time. I think they've done really well with, you know, the constraints they have on their geographical constraints and the foreign start. I think it's great that they can ride straight into France. That's going to be, it works out perfectly. I'm excited for that opening summit finish on stage six. And hopefully it's a good race. As you said, it's always a nice race. It's always nice to watch. the tour. Okay. All right. Talk to you later, Johan. I'll see you tomorrow. Okay. Thank you. Bye.