THEMOVE - Tour de France Stage 12 | The Sir Wiggo & Johan Show

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

Johan Bruyneel and Sir Bradley Wiggins peel back the curtain on the tactics, strategy, and pivotal moments that shaped Stage 12 of the 2025 Tour de France, offering sharp analysis and insider perspective you won’t hear anywhere else. LMNT: Get your free 8-count Sample Pack with any LMNT purchase at https://drinklmnt.com/themove Be sure to try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. Ketone-IQ: Take your shot: Get 30% off your subscription, plus a free gift with your second shipment at https://Ketone.com/themove Ventum: Enter Ventum Trivia of the Day for a chance to win the Grand Prize: $5,000 of store credit towards any Ventum bike. Don’t want to leave it to chance, 10% off sitewide using the code THEMOVE10 or 20% off any NS1 road bike build with code NS120  https://ventumracing.com/themove/

You know, he's now looking like the biggest rival for the green jersey competition. He got more points today. Um, and looking ahead on the profile of the stages, it doesn't look like, uh, Jonathan Milan is going to really score any points or to the last few stages based on the next week. Um, Tade is now in the king of the mountains jersey again. Um, and of course, you know, we said at the top of the show, the last man to win all three jerseys in the tour was 69 and Merckx.

So he's getting closer to the Merckx that we all remember. I'm the 2012 Tour de France winner, Sir Bradley Wiggins. And I'm Johan Bruniel. I directed my teams to nine Tour de France victories. Welcome to the Sir Wiggle and Johan show, our daily show where we dive deep into the tactics behind every stage of the Tour de France. Everybody welcome back to our show as every day presented by Ketone IQ talking about stage 12

of this year's Tour de France, the big first mountain stage from Auge to Hota Cam, 180 kilometers, 120 kilometers flatish. I mean, I would say flatish. I'm actually here on site and I did the course and it was not flat, let me tell you. That was not really flat, that first part. But we'd finish on Hota Cam, mythical climb, that first part. But we'd finish on Hota Kaam, mythical climb, very hard climb. I'm here as everyday joined by Bradley Wiggins, sir Bradley Wiggins. Thank you Bradley for being here and thank you for taking the time to do so late because as I'm here, our time schedule got a bit messed up.

But Brad, yeah, what a stage, and what's your takeaway of the day? Well, I mean, it's a predictable one, but my take of the day, of course, is the complete dominant display of the current world champion and someone who's heading for being one of the greatest of all time, I think, you know, he's, what he's doing at the moment with every ride and every win that he does is, is in my eyes gets closer to the great Eddie Merckx, you know, and watching him today as world champion on Hota Cam, you know, it's not a particularly historic climb in the Tour de France, but it does have some history and some great riders have been up it and won up it. But he's added his name to that list today. And the thing I couldn't not think about watching him today, you know, he went from the bottom of the climb and the display he put on today after crashing yesterday

was of the greats, you know, Lance, Eddie Merckx and so on. But this is a guy who won the Tour of Flanders in April. A week later, he was second in Paris-Roubaix, but he was in the front in Paris-Roubaix with Mathieu van der Poel, one of the greatest classic riders there's probably ever been. And here he is in July, putting on a display like that on a mountain finish in the Tour de France, now leading by three and a half minutes. That's my take of today. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I cannot say and I cannot add anything to that Bradley. I mean, it's unbelievable. As you say, we're talking about it as if it would be something normal.

Okay, he's probably going to win his fourth Tour de France. But you know, thinking about the fact that he was dominating Tour de Flanders, almost I mean, in contention to win Paris-Dubé already in Milan-San Remo up there with all the best. This is unique. I think we're witnessing a unique rider and I agree. It takes us back to a rider like Eddie Merckx to really see a rider like this who couldn't basically win any race. Quite unique.

Yeah. So on that, Johan, I want to just talk a little bit about one of our sponsors, of course, Element. A thousand milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium and 60 milligrams of magnesium. The guys certainly would have needed that today because I heard it was very, very hot out there. No sugar, no gluten, no artificial ingredients, no BS, the real deal. And best of all, if you don't like it, you can give it to a friend and Element will refund you. Element sample pack doubles down on our most popular flavors, citrus salt, raspberry salt, watermelon salt, and orange salt, one of my favorites. Two sticks per pack of each flavor. This offer is available for new and returning customers. And this

offer is exclusively available through partners like The Move. You won't find this offer publicly available. We offer no questions, ask refunds on all orders. You don't even have to give it back. So get a free eight sample count pack of Elements most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase at drink lmnt.com forward slash the move that's drink elements for.com forward slash the move and find your favorite element flavor or share with a friend. Be sure to try the new element sparkling a bold 16 ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. So Johan you're back at the Tour de France for the first time in 12 years is that right? 13 years?

First time in 14 years, Bradley. 14 years. 14 years. Yeah. I mean, how was it? It was great. I mean, I was invited by Sporza, Belgian TV for a famous program, Vive le Villeau, by Carl van Nieuwkerke, who I think you had an interview with a few weeks ago, no? I love the same show, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, it was, there was part, I mean, we had, we spent the whole day. I went to the start, went to the start. I had an official Tour de France ASO accredited pass. So that was, that was quite unique. And I have to say it was, to say, I was pleasantly surprised. First, we went to the what they call the Village de Paris, which is where all the guests gather and you can see

people and speak with the press and so many familiar faces there. I had the honor to be able to chat with one of the greats of cycling, Bernard Tavenet, double Tour de France winner. I remember Bernard Tavenet as being the mean guy to me as a child because he was the guy who was responsible for the downfall of the great Eddie Merckx. It was. Yeah. Yeah.

And a very pleasant chat. I mean, we've, we had exchanged messages in the past because he had an accident and we were, we were exchanging messages, but, but yeah, that was good. So on the, on the Schleck he's there with his brother, Frank Schleck, many, many people in the, in the Villa Depart, you know, I also went to check on the list of all the past winners of the Tour de France. And there's been a change. There's been a change, you know, there's been in the past, the seven years of Lance were left blank.

And now they put the name of Lance Armstrong back on there. So with an asterisk behind it, but that's progress. That's progress. So, but it was, you know, it felt, I mean, I was, I was a bit, I mean, I'm not gonna say nervous, you know, because, but, you know, I was, I say, especially for the people of ASO, you know, but I saw a bunch of them, you know, all of them are more, they're almost all ex cyclists.

Many of them were from actually of them, you know, all of them are more, they're almost all ex cyclists. Many of them were from actually my generation, you know, like Pascal Linault, for example, Pascal Linault is my age or you're younger or something. Yeah. So we are, I know Pascal since junior basically, because we were on the French track team and I was on the Belgian track team. So Thierry Gouvenou, the director of the course actually, so it was all very, very pleasant. So it was nice, very nice. Yeah, very good.

And what did you make of the racing up close? You were on the Col de Souleur, wasn't you? Yeah, first before the start of the race, then I went to the buses to go and see a few ex-colleagues. That was also very cool. I was talking to Steven De Jong, one of the directors of Little Freck, and I was pleasantly surprised to see a young cyclist jump out of the bus, Quinn Simmons, who I uh, who I've been, you know, in contact a tiny bit with in over Instagram, but I had never met him. So he jumped out of the bus

and was very eager to have a picture, uh, which we see here. Uh, so that was cool. And I told, actually, I told Quinn that, you know, I was extremely impressed with his form, you know, his power and that, you And that if he shows his moment, that in my opinion he has a stage win in the legs. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, but yeah. And then we basically drove the course until the coldest slur,

which is a different experience also, because you know you have always seen it obviously from either from the bike a long time ago and then from the car and now you're driving the course which is uh yeah and it's quite impressive actually you know it's it's the tour has grown definitely you know since i've left it's bigger and bigger and bigger it's just a big machine. It's crazy how massive it is. But it was nice.

It was nice. Very nice. Yeah. What was it like seeing the riders up close on the Sûlô? We were talking just before game one, wasn't it? Yeah. So we went to the Col de Sûlô. And yeah, I mean, you have obviously, and I'm going to rely a bit on you, Bradley, to

tell us a little bit about what happened during this stage, because in the Pyrenees, in this part of France, there's no cell phone coverage. We had no images. So basically the first time we knew what was going on was when I saw the riders on Col du Jolot. We were about five kilometers from the top. And it was cool. I mean, you know, the guys were suffering, obviously.

It had been very, very fast before the climbs and then a hard pacing of Visma. And when they passed, it was just the moment that Remco was getting dropped. He was about, I think he was about 30 seconds behind there already. Yeah. But, but, but yeah, big group, first of all, I mean, the remainder of the, of the 52 guys, I think there was about 15 guys left in front of the, the favorite group. But I want to show this little video here, Bradley, which is very telling. The moment that the group of favorites passes, I had a cameraman with me and this is Tadej Pogacar passing the cameraman. He doesn't know this guy at all. And when he looks into

the lens, you will see here, he starts smiling at the camera for no reason. You know, it's a guy he doesn't know here. You see, look, he looks into the lens and he starts smiling, which by then when I saw this and when the guy showed me the images, here we see this, right? That's incredible. And this is the moment when Simon Yates is pulling, you can clearly see, you know, the yorkeles from them is on the limit and he smiles to a guy who he has never seen before.

When this guy told me and showed me the image, I said, okay, you know, I knew what was going to happen. That was crazy. That was really crazy. Yeah. I mean, he's... But that's just an example, isn't it? I knew it was going to happen. That was crazy. That was really crazy. That's just an example of his confidence. Yeah. But it's a different view for me to see this from this angle. I had never done this. This is the first time ever I was at the this from this angle. You know, I had never done this. I had never, this is the first time ever

I was at the tour and you know, on this side, these guys are suffering. I mean, all of them, you know, I think it was, I mean, it was extremely hot also, 36, 37 degrees. Yeah. But it was, it was, yeah, it was, it was special. It was special. But before Bradley, so what happened?

So I could follow a little bit. The big group on 52 riders, which was very special. 52 riders, 52 riders when every team was present and represented other than Post and L with obviously Oscar Ongli's team. They were all around Oscar. And Uno X took up the chase. So Uno X were the ones who kept it at 1 minute 29 or 1 minute 30 for most of the day. They were joined a little bit by Education First, who obviously had the jersey and it's an honor that. And then once we hit the Sula then, because it wasn't that much of a gap, you know, they

start falling away from the front. There was only six riders really riding in the front. The other 46 or so were sat on. So, you know, and then, and then Visma took up the pace as we expected on the Sula. They rode quite a hard pace and pretty much within a few km it was splintered right down. Then we saw the first sign of Remco getting dropped. I think almost getting dropped doesn't do him justice really because of the end result for Remco. I think Remco played it very well today from a... He didn't go with the big sort of accelerations. He decided to ride his own pace, A to B as fast as possible and limit his losses from the Sula and he did the same on Hotecam. We saw the result of

him doing that. But Visma really, I mean, as we expected they would do that, but they then, their plan started to fall apart then really when Matteo Jorgensen started getting dropped from the group when it was down to eight or 10 riders. That put a spanner in the works, at which point they took their foot off the gas, Sepp Kuss dropped down the group and went looking for Matteo and eventually found him and Matteo got back. They then went over the summit, they didn't reaccelerate, people started coming back to that group. Then on the descent, quite a few riders came back, one of which was Remco.

They hit the last climb of the day with quite a few riders, at least 30 or 40 riders. By that time, they'd caught Tim Wellens from the break as well. Wellens had waited back, he was in the break. Tim pulled the last four to five, six kilometers into the bottom of Hodgocam, by which time then Navaris took over the bottom of the climb and it worked perfect. Navaris really made a big acceleration and then Tade did what he normally does. He went off the back of that acceleration and it was devastating when he did go. Jonas attempted to stay with him as long as possible,

maybe five, 600 meters. And once Jonas got dropped, Tade pretty much backed off as well as we've seen him do. And the gap was about five, six seconds. And then with every kilometer, Tade just took another seven seconds each kilometer from that point on. So it was an incredible display really. And, um, Jonas never looked like coming back. I mean, between the pair

of them, uh, Jonas looked like he was on his limit for most of the climb and it, you know, the whole plan really backfired on Bisma. But at the same time, I don't see what else they could have tried today because they'd already made it very vocal about what they were going to do during the week. So, yeah. No, no. Okay. Well, I got, I just got a really good play by play of what I haven't seen today. So thank you for that.

I have some, some doubts and some questions about strategies and then we can debate about that. Before we do that, I just want to talk about our other sponsor, Ketone IQ. We know that ketones are widely used nowadays in the peloton and in almost all endurance sports. Ketone has teamed up with KU Leuven to do some studies. It's been proven scientifically that they boost athletic performance and in a placebo control study with trained athletes, Ketone IQ boosted average sprint power by 19%, peak power by 13%, cut fatigue by 10%,

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So go to ketone.com and enter the code, the move 20 for 20% off. So that's the move.com the move 20 at checkout for 20% off. Bradley, in terms of strategy, I agree that Visma today had to try something. And especially after the crash yesterday, you know, it was a hard crash. I mean, at least that's what it looked like. He went down hard.

And especially the day after and two days after, you never know how the body is going to respond. So I think they had to do something. Now, they tried something, but how many guys did Visma have in the breakaway? They had Campenaerts, I think? They had. No, no, they just had... No, they had Tishpenot. Tishpenot. Tishpenot. Yeah.

So I think that's, and that's obviously difficult to plan because, you know, in my opinion, if a group of 52 riders goes, that's because there's been chaos and all of a sudden, boom, they're gone. And you're either in the speed. Some people were in it without trying to be in it. And some people just were caught out. But, you know, today's plan should have been in my opinion, um, Visma, the two guys that needed to be in the breakaway were Campenaerts and Walt Van Aert. They should have been in that break. And then, I don't know, you know, I agree. You know, we've been critical about Visma a little bit and, you know, and then people say, okay, what should they do?

And I guess today they had to try, right? My opinion, my impression is, I don't know what you think, that Visma is a team, it's extremely well organized, they have set out plans and I've seen already in the past a few times that for some reason, I don't know what the reason is, that they're unable to adapt their pre-race plan to the situation. Why I'm saying this, there's 52 riders in front. There's EF pulling and Uno X, but also Niels Paulit was pulling very, very, very hard. At that point, I think it's easy to deduct that UAE and Tadej Pogacar want the stage win. Otherwise, why would Pullit be pulling? It doesn't really matter.

If there's 30, 20 or 10 riders ahead, Pogacar can still attack on Otakam and try to drop. So he wanted the stage win. So at that point, when Campenaerts started to pull on the Sular, I mean, Victor Campenaerts is in great shape. You know, I mean, it's amazing what he's doing. Don't get me wrong. But the pace of Victor Campenaerts on the Sular is not going to do any damage to Pogacar

or his guys that need to be with him, whether it's Adam Yates, Narvaez, even Marc Soler, it's not going to do anything to those guys. So then I think, okay, why don't they let UAE do the work on the Sular? Because why I'm saying this, because when the guys passed me the favorites with 5k to go on the Sular, I guess it was like 10-15 riders, I don't remember exactly, but it was Simon Yates pulling for Visma. And so then I'm thinking, okay, well, if Simon Yates is pulling here, what are they going to do on Hota Kamp?

There's nobody left. No, no. So, you know, okay, listen, it is easy, of course, to criticize and to say, okay, they didn't do this right when we all know that it didn't work out, right? That's easy. No, they had to do something. But today we saw again the same thing that they have been doing all day, all the stages. They are riding and so-called to make the race hard, but they don't make

the race hard for today. They do the work for today. What do you think? The interest, yeah. Yeah, no, exactly that. I mean, you know, this is the thing. What they did today is obviously they had to stick to their plan that they've been riding since Lille because they've made it very clear what they're attempting to do for the first 10 days of this tour. They couldn't really change that plan today. Otherwise, everything they've done in the previous eight or nine days would have been

worthless, pointless. But it makes you question whether the fact that Mateo dropped today and didn't have a great day and they weren't able to pull it off, then they've spent a lot of matches the last few days with Mateo and these attacks they've been doing. But the big question now is, where do they go from here? They're three and a half minutes down. We have a time trial tomorrow where potentially he could be five minutes down in second place on GC. Where do they go from here as a team now? Mateo dropped to 10th overall, 10 minutes behind. So it's, you know, is this all done? That card of potential having the second guy as a potential threat is gone now. And I think also, Bradley, for tomorrow, after today, it's a time loss, but it's also a big

mental blow. Today they're in the corner where they were hit hard. So we'll see. I mean, listen, for us, it's easy to say, okay, they should do this, they should do this. But yeah, I mean, I think a plan needs to be adapted to the situation because you can't execute the plan if there's a lot of other variables that you don't control. And that plan doesn't work anymore, or some plans don't work anymore. And also, I think if you want to make the race hard, you have this strategy and you see that on that particular day, I mean, let's not forget this is stage 12, there's still nine stages.

Yeah. Right. So, if you see that on that particular day, one of the, your guys, one of your key cards, which is Matteo Jorgensen is having not such good day back off, back off and then let him, you know, would it have changed in the end? Probably not. I don't think so. You know, I mean, at the end of the day, we're trying to figure out how you can beat someone who's going to go down as the greatest cyclist of all time. It's funny, isn't it?

But I think I agree with you there really. I wonder now, you know, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I wonder now if you took this race back to Lille and said to Visma, what would you do differently now knowing what happened on Hotecum? what would you do differently now knowing what happened on Hotecam? What would you do differently? I mean, there is a, you know, you just let them ride a week and whatever group went up the road with other favorites in and it was like five minutes to say, you chase, we're not chasing you guys chase and just give them the onus because that's the only way is to utilize UAE.

Don't forget, Tani didn't have Almeida either today. Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, Tani didn't have Almeida either today. Yeah. You know. No, that's crazy. I mean, crazy, crazy. I still think had Joe Almeida been there, healthy, no crashes, he'd be on the podium at this stage. I still think he'd be on the podium. I think today, if you take today's stage

and let's just put Almeida back in there without the crash. And you know, the normal tiredness of 12 days. The way I see this is if it's instead of Narvaez, it's Almeida, they take off both of them. But what to say about Jonathan Narvaez Bradley, that guy, I mean, I think, I mean, I may be wrong, you know, but I think that if you look at the eight riders together with Almeida, I think Narvaez was basically brought to the tour to be in week one, you know, being the lead out for those short attacks on those steep climbs. He stepped up now. Narvaez was brilliant today. That's the best I've seen him ride this tour.

I've never seen him in high mountains like this. No, no. He can do short explosive climbs. That was incredible. And on top of that, because normally it was not Weiss, Adam Yates and Tadej. And when Adam Yates was not able to follow, he went again and ended the lead out. Right? Yeah. and ended the lead out. Right? So, another thing I wanted to ask you, your opinion about Bradley.

So, we've seen that both, I mean, the whole UAE team, and also, but also Jonas, in the mountain stage, were on their aero bikes. I can tell you what I found out being at the race. So I spoke to Machin, the sports manager of UAE, and I asked him about the aero bikes and he said, you know what, they're not heavy, they're 7.1 kilos, so they're only 300 grams heavier than the climbing bike or the light bike they have. The guys like the bike and we've seen now that at a very low speed from above anything

above 18 kilometers per hour, apparently the aero bike is better and the guys like it. And if you factor in the 120 kilometers at high speed before those three last climbs. That's the reason. So do you agree with that? No, I can see that. I can see from the wind tunnel stuff that I've done in the past with British cycling and sky and that, you can see gains on the right equipment at speeds of 20 kilometers now. I mean, it's all, it's all relative and it's all, you know, it's, it's, it's all,

um, you know, those things do make a difference. Um, and when you factor in, you know, Tadej speeds at times, I mean, at certain times on that climb, the speed he would have been riding, particularly on the approach to the climb and that first part of the climb, you know, it all makes a difference and it all adds up. Um, so I can see that. Yeah, I can, I can believe that. Yeah. What else do we have? So anyway, Bogacar, Jonas, I mean, what to say about Jonas? What do we say about Jonas now? Is he going to now protect his second place overall for the next week and a half?

Of course he is in some capacity, but they were here to win this race. But I don't know what else he can do now. He's got to try something different, hasn't he? Or the team has to have a different approach and rethink things. Yeah. I think personally, Jonas didn't have a great day today. You know, I mean, he didn't look his usual self. I've seen the numbers also. Today, today's Jonas is not as good as Jonas was in the Pyrenees last year, but significantly

less. You know, like we all know that, for example, his team published some data saying that his ascent to the Loto de Be last year was his best ever. Today he was far from that level. So we'll have to see now if this is a trend or if he can recover. It looks like the battle for third is probably not going to be a threat for Jonas. So he's like in the middle of there, you know, like probably doesn't need to do much to protect his second place. But what can he do to get closer to first place? I think that's the question.

Yeah. Yeah. Another guy I want to point out. That difference might be a lot more tomorrow after this time, Joe. You know? Yeah. Yeah. If, listen, if tomorrow it's five minutes, Bradley, I don't know what we're

going to talk about in the last week. We're going to have to, yeah, we're going to have to look at the Pogacar show. You know, that we're going to have to enjoy the Tade the Pogacar show, we're going to have to enjoy the Tadej Pogacar show, which personally I like. I love it when the best rider of this generation just wins and crushes everyone. I love that. The other thing with Tadej Johan is he's now looking like the biggest rival for the green jersey competition. He got more points today.

Um, and looking ahead on, on the profile of the stages, it doesn't look like, uh, Jonathan Milan is going to really score any points or to the last few stages based on the next week. Yeah. Um, Tade is now in the king of the mountains jersey again. Um, and of course, you know, we said at the top of the show, the last man to win all three jerseys in the tour was 69 and Merckx. So he's getting closer to the Merckx that we all remember.

Yeah, that would be something. And is it today, is it stage win number 20 in the tour? 20, yeah. And it'll be 21 tomorrow. There's another record that might be approaching. I mean, not this year, of course, but you know, it's crazy. It's crazy. I also want to shout out Florian Lepowicz.

What a ride. Yeah, great ride. You know, this guy, if I'm not mistaken, he started cycling five years ago, five years ago, Bradley. Really? He was, he was, he was a biathlon athlete, you know, skiing and shooting the biathlon. Yeah. Yeah. And he took up cycling because he didn't make any progress in, in, in, you know, and, um,

I mean, I think this guy is probably, I mean, the way you see him ride, the mistakes he makes sometimes still tactically, this guy can still improve a lot. And I think this is probably the biggest rival for Remco in the podium and for the white jersey also, by the way, he's also still in the running for the white jersey. By the way, did you guys, I don't know, I don't know what it was. Did you guys see Primoz Roglic and his socks? Yeah. Yeah.

You guys, what was that about? Um, I think he said, I saw an interview at the finish with him. He said, he saw it was cooler, you know, from a staying cool point of view. And then he made a joke that his tan lines, he was working on his tan lines for summer. By the way, I forgot to say, sorry about this, the video, I promised the cameraman of Sporza that I would give him the credit. So the video you saw of Tadej smiling to the camera is courtesy of Klaas Bakers of Globe, Global Films.

Sorry about that Klaas, I forgot to say that. Tomorrow's stage, we're gonna talk about this first Wintem Trivia as every day. So last question from yesterday was stage 11. Stage 11 started and ended in Toulouse. What historical significance does Toulouse hold in the Tour de France? Do you know the answer, Bradley? Yeah.

It was featured in the very first Tour de France in 1903. Yeah, correct. Today's question for stage 12, it's about the Hota Cam Climb. First featured in 1994, Hota Cam has earned a reputation as an infamous Pyrenean climb, including stage 12. How many times has it been featured in the Tour de France? So how many times in the history of the Tour has Hotacom been featured? Send your best guess or if you know the answer to ventumracing.com

slash The Move to be entered to win this year's grand prize of $5,000 store credit towards any Ventum bike you want to purchase. If you don't want to wait until the end of the tour, Ventum also has a standing discount during the remainder of the tour. 10% off the whole site using the code NS120, phantomracing.com. Okay, Brad, the tomorrow stage, is it a time trial? Is it a mountain stage? Is it, what is it? How do you, I mean, definitely-

Yeah, it's a mountain time trial. A couple of kilometers, you know, I wouldn't say they're flat, but they're getting into the climb. And then it's, you know, three kilometers onwards to the finish. It's, it's some stereo, you know, decent percentage and some, some pretty steep ramps in the final UK. So it's, you know, it's going to be 35, 40 minutes of sustained effort, um, off the back of today and Hotecam and, um, you know, the choice of today in Hotecum. And the choice of equipment is going to be key for lots of people tomorrow.

We've heard rumors that Remco and of course, Eunice will be riding a time trial bike. That remains to be seen how that ends up for them. And then of course, the psychological, in the, you know, the psychological in the psychology of it in terms of a paddock going off last and two minutes ahead of me, Miss Jonas on the road and he's going to see him. Well, you know, Lance said on the show today, you know, I know what that feels like. You know, I've been there, you know, when he was chasing after Jan. Obviously, that's a big one for Jonas tomorrow, is to not get caught. Man, imagine that.

Imagine if Jonas Wengergaard, the second guy in the Tour de France gets caught by Thaddeus Pogacar. It's not impossible. Two minutes is a lot, right? So today he lost two minutes, 10 on a 12 kilometer, 10, 13 kilometer climb. It's different. I don't think he's gonna catch him,

but he's gonna be close. He's gonna be within 30, 40 seconds. Yeah. So yeah, we'll see. We'll be back tomorrow for the stage. Thank you, Bradley. Thank you, Bradley. Thank you for your patience with my busy schedule here and talk soon.

Thanks. Yeah. Thank you, guys.