THEMOVE - Tour de France Stage 14 | The Sir Wiggo & Johan Show

Episode Date: July 19, 2025

Johan Bruyneel and Sir Bradley Wiggins peel back the curtain on the tactics, strategy, and pivotal moments that shaped Stage 14 of the 2025 Tour de France, offering sharp analysis and insider perspective you won’t hear anywhere else. NordVPN: Get your Exclusive NordVPN deal here → https://nordvpn.com/themove It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! Ketone-IQ: Take your shot: Get 30% off your subscription, plus a free gift with your second shipment at https://Ketone.com/themove Ventum: Enter Ventum Trivia of the Day for a chance to win the Grand Prize: $5,000 of store credit towards any Ventum bike. Don’t want to leave it to chance, 10% off sitewide using the code THEMOVE10 or 20% off any NS1 road bike build with code NS120  https://ventumracing.com/themove/

Jonas, for example, said yesterday that he probably had his best performance ever. Yesterday in the time trial. He still lost 36 seconds to today. Today also he said he had a great day, he had great legs. This was probably the hardest mountain stage he has ever done. I don't know what to read into that. I mean, okay, it was a hard stage, I don't know what to read into that. I mean, it's OK. It was it was a hard stage, but he's done. He's done harder stages than this. I'm the 2012 Tour de France winner, Sir Bradley Wiggins.

And I'm Johan Brunel. I directed my teams to nine Tour de France victories. Welcome to the Sir Wiggle and Johan show, our daily show, where we dive deep into the tactics behind every stage of the Tour de France. Hi, everybody. dive deep into the tactics behind every stage of the Tour de France. Hi everybody, welcome to our show talking about stage 14 of the Tour de France. I'm here with Bradley Wiggins. Our show is presented like every day by Ketone IQ. Bradley, from Luchon to Superbanière, 180 kilometers, big mountain stage,

From Luchon to Superbanières, 180km, big mountain stage, 5,000m of climbing, the big climbs, Tourmalet, Père Sourde, Aspin and then Superbanières. Let's first start with our daily segment, Bradley's take of the day. What do you take away from today? What's your main takeaway? Not much from a GCZ point of view. A few changes. Oscar only up to fourth, which is great. But I think the main talking point of the day was obviously the abandonment of Remco Evenepoel, which we kind of predicted or I predicted because I saw the disillusionment yesterday in that 10, the warm down 10 after the time trial, getting caught in that time trial. Remco's a champion, isn't he? He's a winner. And, you know, there's something not right with him at the moment in terms of, you know, he's really fallen off the cliff. Even though he was lying third overall, there's something just not quite right with him.

And we can chat about it afterwards. But first of all, I'll talk about our sponsor of today, NordVPN. With NordVPN, you can safely access your favorite streams and other content from home, no matter where you go. Easily switch your virtual location to access apps and websites in other countries. Easy to use, connect with OneClick or enable AutoConnect for zero-click protection. Seven and a half thousand plus servers in 118 countries. Change your virtual location easily. Amazing speed. NordVPN is one of the fastest VPNs out there. And one NordVPN account can be used on 10 devices. Supports every

major platform, Windows, Android, iOS and Mac OS. Get your exclusive NordVPN deal here. It's www.nordvpn.com forward slash the move. That's nordvpn.com forward slash the move. It's risk free with NordVPN. 30 day money the move. It's risk-free with NordVPN, 30-day money back guarantee. Link is in the episode show notes, Johan. Okay, Bradley, the stage of today, as we expected, there was a sprint just before the Tourmalet. I didn't watch the stage from kilometer zero, as you can understand, but it looks like it

was super fast, again, 50 kilometers per hour. And a part of a few attacks altogether and Jonathan Milan wins the sprint. Second was van der Poel, I guess, and third was Bingham Girmaie. And we get, Bradley, we get to, after the sprint, we get to the Tourmalet. There's a few attacks. And then we see, okay, once you get to the Tourmalet and there's no big breakaway, you can think, okay,

a breakaway may form now and make it to the finish, but most likely it's gonna be the GC guys. Turned out differently, but. When we get to the Tourmalet, first thing we see is, as we said, Remco. Remco gets dropped at the bottom. Straight away, it looks like it's game over. And it was, as you predicted yesterday. That was, I think, sad to see, but not really a surprise.

And we're going to... it obviously changes the race now because, you know, third place is now open, you know, for Lipowitz, for Oskar Omly, for who's in fifth, is it still, you know, Johanneson? Kevin Voigtland. Kevin Voigtland. So, it's gonna be a big battle. I kind of think it's gonna be Lipowitz, the way he's writing. But anyway, we'll see. So what were you thinking when you saw Remco?

Well, I mean, it was, I think, you know, I thought it was predictable on the cards, you know, he was so disillusioned after that time trial and getting caught as well in the time trial. You know, there's something not right with him at the moment. But, you know, I think also, you know, you could see the frustration in him. The writing was on the wall. He was just waiting for a good opportunity to get in the car, whether the car was still there or not. But the TV cameras were focused on him. They were, you know, doing everything possible to capture those images of him abandoning the tour. Yeah. And I mean, the race goes on, doesn't it? And Remco's season will go on.

And look, Remco's a champion, you know, as you said, he's going to now go and prepare for the world championships. And you wouldn't put it past him to be double world champion there, because that's the kind of rider he is. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. You know, I mean, it's easy to criticize, right? And, you know, we kind of initially, you know, Remco is one of those writers, Bradley, he

has come onto the scene, has been so good. And then on top of that, he has this personality of he's a strong character and says what he thinks sometimes, you know, most of the time that then, you know, whenever it doesn't work out. And for many riders, except for today, a lot of times it doesn't work out. I mean, that's the way cycling is. Right. And so Ramco deals with a lot of criticism, you know, and it must be hard to deal with, but let's not forget Bradley, you know, and I don't want to be the Ramco defender.

Let's not forget that this guy had four months off the bike after that accident with the post office car in Belgium. He started, Brabant Sepeil was his first race, I guess, then Narmstel. And I think you could, if you look back on it, you could probably say he started the season with a lot of intensity, but maybe with not enough foundation, which is what you need for the stage races and the grand tours, right? So could that be something that is one of the causes? Of course, you know, we're talking about performing against the greatest cyclist in the world at the moment. And the second greatest cyclist in the world is Jonas.

And they're the two that he's got to compete against. And they've had, you know, Jonas has had a few troubles early on in the season at Paris and East, but Jonas has had once again, a perfect winter, perfect spring. So you has to be, you know, you can't, you has to be on his, you know, 100% on his game.

And if everything had gone well through the winter after his Olympic successes last year and world championships, you know, I think he would have been better placed, you know, but Remco showed in this tour that on his day, the time trial, he can still be one of the best in the world. But I think that's the main, that's the main part of why he's not his best here is because he just doesn't have the foundation off the back of last season and four months in the current era of cycling is a, is a, is a long time off the bike and the back of last season and four months in the current era of cycling is a long time off the bike. And the repercussions of that crash, you know, the shoulder, you know, is it ever going to be, you know, as good as it was before.

And so, yeah, there's lots of, but Remco has been here before, hasn't he? With the crash in Lombardy, he's been back, you know, he's come back from the death before. I'm sure we'll come back again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm sure too. I'm sure too. It's just sad to see him. And people say, he's always getting agitated with the cameras. It's not easy, man.

First of all, the huge disappointment. You could see, they weren't able to bring it into image, but he was super sad, super disappointed. You just have to leave those guys alone and give it some time. Anyways, race goes on, as you say. And one of the things, I mean, initially on the... I don't know what happened, but I was a bit worried for UAE because straight away we saw two UAE guys in, UAE guys in trouble.

I think it was Soler and Wellens, Soler at some point, and then also Narvaez were quite in the back. And I don't know if they were called out or something. Anyways, finally it turns out that they were fine. Um, you know, today Wellens, and this was not there, but Soler stepped up and Sivakov stepped up today. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, um, and then we see Lenny Martinez and Ben O'Connor go clear. Um, Lenny Martinez goes over the Tourmalet. I think also for a rider like Lenny Martinez, I mean, and especially for a French rider being the first

on Tourmalet, that's like an honor, right? That's like, that's a race within the race, right? Yeah. Yeah. If there's one climb you're going to go over in the Tour de France in front, it's probably that one. Yeah. And he'd done a great ride today, you know, gone out there early, got the King of the Mountains jersey back now on his shoulders. And that was a great day for him. I thought, yeah, good gutsy ride. Yeah, for sure. For sure. We saw a lot of movement. It became a really, really good breakaway, you know, with lots of climbers. Amongst them were Sepp Kuss and Simon Yates, Carlos Rodriguez, Arnsmann, and then one guy of the top 10, Tobias Johansson, which was interesting.

And the two Wismar guys, I mean, initially, you know, I don't know what you guys thinking when you saw the Kussen and Simon Yates in there. Initially I was thinking, okay, this is, they sent them up and Jonas is probably going to try to attack. I mean, that would, in any other race, in any other era, that would be the tactics that you would think were happening. But I mean, against Tadej, that's never going to happen. I actually think it was more a case of letting those guys explore how far this break goes,

how far into the last climb this break goes in terms of getting a stage win. Because I think that's all they can hope for at the moment. And if the moment arose where that stage win wasn't looking like it was on the cards, they would still be able to fall back and maybe help Jonas in some capacity if it was needed. But the rider I thought did really well today, Victor, was Victor Campenaerts. He was once again pulling onto the last climb of Superbanière. Unbelievable. I mean, the level of Victor Campenaerts in this Tour de France, and not just in this Tour de France, the whole season, because he's done all the races with Jonas. He's really found his niche now, isn't he, in that tier?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But today was impressive. I mean, to be on Superbarnière there when there was, there was, I think there was 12, 13 riders left, you know, and you had Sapkous and Simon Yates in the back and in the front. And it looked already like they were not going to be of, of use because they got dropped from the breakaway. Victor stayed there. I mean, otherwise Jonas would have been alone with four UAE riders. Not that it really matters that much, right? Because once it really goes into the fifth or sixth gear, it's the two of them. But yeah, Victor's amazing.

Victor was unbelievable. But you know who was really amazing today, Bradley? It's Niels Pollet. Yeah, I mean, he's good every day. That was, he did. He pulled the whole tourmalet. Yeah. Yeah. And, and probably also the Aspan. Yeah. And then, uh, and then Sivakov and Mark Soler took over on the, on the Peter Surde and, and, and on the last client. But, uh, but yeah, I mean,

the roles are turned, aren't they? I mean, it's like Visma was initially this unit when they would attack with the numbers and today UAE was there. Okay, they were. Yeah. Yeah. It was, I thought UAE were totally in control today. I thought they rode as they had to. Siakhov was going back for jackets, I noticed, on the top of the tourmalet because it was quite wet. Nils Pollock did a great job, as he has done almost. I mean, you think this guy was the guy who was riding pretty much on his own on the day that we were the Mule de Bretagne.

And here he is a week later on the front of the tourmalet. Great ride. And let's say the team rode perfect today. Adam Yates was there. And they had everything in control. And I don't think Tadej even broke sweat on the last climb today. Didn't look like it. When Jonas attacked, Tadej didn't even get out of the saddle. No, twice. The two attacks of Jonas were followed. Yeah, you could see. Anyway, from the breakaway, we have this big acceleration of Arnsman on the Pérez Surde.

And you could see, okay, you know, this is an attack for the stage win, right? And finally, Ineos get their stage win and well deserved. You know, I mean, they were, I think they were with three guys in the breakaway initially. Carlos Rodriguez was there also. And yeah, and also, I mean, another thing I noticed with UAE, like now, for example, we see with Vizmar, we see that Jorgensen is off, and he's off several days in a row.

He had a little bit of a bounce back yesterday, but today he was again back to kind of the same level of the Hota Camp. In UAE, it seems to be different. Like they have one day, one guy off and then another guy comes to the front. Yeah. Today, for example, Pavel Sivakov, I think did an amazing job. I mean, he was sick the other day when they, you know, when he was there.

Yeah. I was surprised about Wellens today, actually. I wonder if he's a little bit under the weather. Could be. Yeah. Yeah. Or some people mean like these fast starts also do a lot of damage, you know, like, but I also thought Tade used his team really well today and really economically. I think he, it was clear to me, he wasn't trying to win the stage or attack or anything today. He was happy to let the stage go, particularly with his interview at the finish today. He was giving high praise to Aarizman. And I think he's becoming aware that if he dominates every stage now, it's going to knock... I think he's given out.

So these are Caddels as they say, you know. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I think he used his team wisely today knowing that this is going to be tough in the Alps. And I think the next time we see Tadej will be off the front at Mont Ventoux. I agree. I agree. Anyway, before we go on to the last climb, I want to talk about our presenting sponsor, Ketone IQ. As we all know, ketones are widely used in the Peloton and in a lot of other endurance sports.

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So that's ketone.com forward slash the move with the code the move. Yeah, we get to the last climb, Bradley. By then, I think it's still a bit unsure, in my opinion, if Arne Sman will make it. But basically, it all depends on the intentions of Pogacar and UAE, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, no, exactly. That was it. And I think it became clear on that last climb that Tadej was happy to use his team as long as possible and not expend any more energy than he has to because at the end of the day,

he has had now at least three or four days of big moves, you know. And, you know, at some point he might pay for that. I don't think so. You know, he was happy to let the Ineos rider take the stage today and not force it any more than he had to. So yeah, I think I mean other than that it was there wasn't much else to talk about other than You know what the thing I found did find a little bit strange Based on what FISMA has been telling us and the tactics they've employed throughout the race, was obviously they had two guys up the road, Simon and Sepp, while Wingergur was isolated behind, he was isolated himself, with Matteo Jorgensen going off the back of that group when they hit

the last climb, which kind of left Jonas to think for himself and make an attack four kilometers to go, which I kind of, there was no way he was going to get rid of Tadej at that point. No. Well, I mean, if you look, if you listen to Jonas' interview afterwards, he said, you know, that they thought that UAE and Polaccia wanted to go for the stage with, so he was expecting some kind of an increase in speed, probably when Narvaez took over

because Solaire pulled for a very long time. If you look at the climb of the last, of Superbanière, the profile says 12%, but it was really 17%. That's 12 kilometers, really 17 kilometers from, what was it called, Banière de Luchon. And so initially was Solerre who, you know, did as long as he could go. And then you would think normally it would have been Simon. Normally would have been Simon Yates and then Narvaez with that punch he has, they switched roles today. And I think that that's when Jonas realized, okay, he's not going to go for the stage win.

Probably also because Narvaez didn't have the best day. And so, you know, they probably talked amongst each other. And so, yeah, I mean, that attack from Jonas was, I mean, you have to try. But personally, don't you think Bradley, if you're, you've been, I mean, first of all, they're the two biggest rivals for the last four years. Right. Yeah. Four years. Five years, maybe even. You know each other. You know, and so if Jonas is sitting behind Tadej, he knows, he knows when he's on a great day or when he's on a bad day. You know that from your rivals. Yeah, yeah, of course you do.

So, you know, I think by then he should have known, OK, Tadej looks great. You know, I mean, I'm not even going to try. Then you could say, well, you know, is he attacking because he wants to make sure he's second? I think that's not really an issue because I don't think Lipovic or any of those others are going to get close in the GC unless something happens to Jonas. But yeah, I think it was amazing to see the reaction of Tadej when Jonas attacked twice. I think obviously he had anticipated that Tadej was lining up and the team were lining

him up to make a big attack. And when he did and they got to 4K to go, I suppose in his head, was he not attacking because he was on a bad day Tadej? So he had to try really. And obviously once he did attack and saw Tadej there, I think it became apparent that, oh no, Tadej is just not today, rather than having a bad day. So yeah, I mean, it is what it is. And onto another day, I think the Vontour will be a very different story.

There's still hope that for Jonas that Tade could be on an off day, the day after rest day, because no one knows. You have to hope. You have to hope. You have to hope somewhere. Yeah. You know, I somewhere. Yeah. You know, I don't know. I don't know Bradley.

I kind of, I mean, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I kind of have the impression that today has a plan with marks, specific marks. That's the way it looks. The time trial where he got humiliated two years ago by Jonas, he did the opposite this year in the first time trial, right? Devantu in my opinion, no, Otakam, where he got dropped by Jonas and Vald Van Aert two years ago, same thing. Yeah, yeah.

He went away. Devantu is also where he got dropped by Jonas a few years ago. And won the stage. I'm expecting it's going to be the same win, same thing. And also Calderlados. Calderlados is also... So I think those are the objectives of the Pogacar. Don't you think?

Yeah, it has to be. He's got a clear idea now where this tour is one, but where he's going to consolidate the tour and finish it off. And I don't think today was one of those. The Pyrenees have done really well for them. And I think it kind of falls into what we've been saying a few times. I think you agree with me, Bradley, that we've said several times that today is racing much more calculated than in other years.

Yeah, yeah. He is. Yeah, he is. And he's also not setting a precedent. So he's letting people think and question what he's going to do. So he's not just doing the same thing every day, which, you know, keeps people guessing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, but I mean, and you know, obviously, when you're in a situation and you have four minutes,

you can you can allow yourself to do that. Right. And, and, uh, I think we're only going to see right now, uh, a UAE team that gets more and more confident. Obviously, the morale is through the roof there and then with Visma, it's kind of falling apart a bit. Right. Yeah. Um, so I've been thinking, you know, like in terms of Visma, that's the question I have for you. Do their tactics, you know, of making the race hard in the first 10 days, is this now backfiring on them?

Are they paying the price of having tried so hard with several attacks of Jorgensen? Possibly. Is that now? Yeah, possibly. I mean, they might be paying for it individually for their efforts, but you know, would the result be any different had they not deployed those tactics from Lille? If they'd ridden on the back foot from Lille and just said, right, we're going to sit here and take the risk, there'd still probably be four minutes down now. So they had to try because no, you know, no one,

there wasn't, there was a question mark with Tade, a small question mark because of how good he was in the Dauphiné, but a small question mark, even going into the Dauphiné, how's the spring campaign affected Tade for his grand tours? We didn't know. No one's done it before since Merck. We know it now. We know it now. We know it now. Yeah. And that, you know, so, so they had to try something and, you know, good,

good on them for trying it a different, something different, but it hasn't worked. But you know, we have to be careful not to mock Visma because of... No, no, no, absolutely not. They've, they've, they've been, they've made this race in some ways. You know, they really have. I mean, imagine they're not here. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, that's yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, I think how frustrating must it be, you know, I mean, and obviously at some point you have to acknowledge the superiority of your rival, but you know, I mean,

for me, it's, it's kind of, uh, I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, he's probably super, super disappointed and at the same time satisfied, but you know, I'm going to, you know, he's probably super, super disappointed. And at the same time satisfied, but you know, Jonas, for example, said yesterday that, uh, he probably had his best performance ever. Yesterday in the time trial. He still lost 30 seconds, 36 seconds to today. Today also, he said he had a great day. He had great legs.

This was probably the hardest mountain stage he has ever done. I don't know what to read into that. I mean, it's okay. It was a hard stage, but he's done. He's done harder stages than this. Like, you know, like, obviously he was on a super day then. But yeah, I mean, you know, then when you, when you, when you have that feeling, I'm doing my best numbers.

This is my best performance ever. I know how cyclists think, you know, they have their best power output. It is kind of a little victory without even seeing the result in the race. But then you see, you watch the, you watch the stage and you see Pogacar reacting without getting out of the saddle. I don't really know what they can do, you know? Okay, Bradley. So now, anyways, Arnstmann wins the stage. I think it's an amazing stage win for him.

Second stage in a Grand Tour. He's been struggling, this guy, to find his spot, but you know, he's a big talent. Yeah, it's been four years since he's been able to stage win. Which was impressive. Yeah. Like most people that leave that team, you know, DSM or Sunweb. Yeah, they never seem to find, they would take time, some of them don't find their feet again but he's changed all that in one ride

today with the stage within the Tour de France. So it was a great ride. Yeah. It never looked in doubt at any point once he went away. Yeah. He kept going. I mean, his acceleration on the Pire de Sourde was impressive. And then, you know, he was very, very steady, very steady. Pérez Surdo was impressive and then, you know, he was, he was very, very steady, very steady. Yeah. Yeah. Well deserved. Well deserved. Um, so the GC now Pogacar, Jonas is at four minutes 13. So loses a bit of time again, you know, some bonifications and a little bit of time anyway, four minutes, four minutes 13 doesn't really matter. The third spot is now Florian Lipowicz, who has now confirmed the leader of Red Bull, Red Bull Bohora. You know, I think Primoz was a bit disappointing to me today. I mean,

after his third place in the time trial, we would both have expected him to be better today, you know? Yeah, yeah. But it is the Tour de France, isn't it? And we, you know, they had two tough days, didn't they, with Hodgocam and then the time trial, and it affects people differently. And then today as well with the rain and cold weather, and yeah, I mean, it's just, this is the nature of the Tour de France. Some people have good days and bad days,

and he was one of them today, but I'm sure he'll be back again. He's got, he'll have a good one on Von Tue, I think, Rollich. Yeah, could be. And someone like Lippovic might have gone too deep today in order to get that step, as we see. We don't know what's going to happen, but he looks pretty solid, man. The first attack

of Jonas, today obviously reacted, and he came back, didn't he? Uh, Lebowitz, he came back to the wheel. He did. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I mean, imagine how this guy must feel, you know, top of the world at the moment. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Before we talk about tomorrow's stage, uh, our daily Ventum trivia. The question of yesterday was the high altitude landing strip finishing location of yesterday's uphill time trial in Péragüe holds a special significance to one of the ghosts of this year's DeMove Tour de France coverage. Who is it and why?

I'm going to guess you know the answer Bradley. I was, uh, where I, the last time it finished of the 2012 tour. Yeah. So the host of the movie, that's you. And that's where you basically won the tour. I mean, yeah, there was still a time trial, but it was by then. Yeah. By then there was, yeah.

So who won that stage? You remember still who won that stage? Alejandro Vivaldi. Yeah. Yeah. Second, Froome, U-turn. Froome, third, me third, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK, today's question for the Ventum Privia. The Queen of the Pyrenees needs no introduction.

The Col du Tourmalet is the most climbed mountain pass in the history of the Tour de France. The question is in what year was it first featured in the Tour? So what year was the Tourmalet first featured in the Tour de France? So send your best guesses or the correct answer if you know it to VentumRacing.com slash The Move and you will enter into the contest to win a grand prize of $5,000 store credit towards any Ventum bike you want to purchase on the website. You don't want to wait until the end of the contest. Ventum is also offering a standing discount for The Move listeners. 10% of the whole site using the code themove10 and 20% of any NS1 bike you want to purchase with the code NS120. The Move, sorry, vantamracing.com forward slash The Move. Tomorrow's stage Bradley 169 kilometers. We have the profile here from, from to carcassonne.

Uh, three climbs. Um, I guess at this point, third category, second category climbs. And we can't call it the mountain stage. It's a hard stage. 2,500 meters. What do you think? Breakaway? Uh, I think a breakaway.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, And we could see someone like Matthew trying to go in again. He's very close now, well closer on the green jersey competition. That's a really interesting competition that's panning out with Tadej and Jonathan Milan, who is the best part of 30 points between them. And then you've got Matthew now on 191, Jonathan was the best part of 30 points between them. And then you've got Mathieu now on 191, who's come back in. How many points is he behind? He's 60 behind Jonathan. Okay.

There's a lot of points up for grabs tomorrow. Yeah, there's grabs. I mean, normally the first sprint track would kind of have to control it. And then Milan wins the sprint. But normally Mathieu will be second or third in that sprint back today. Then there's, I'm going to guess there's 50 points tomorrow, right? For the, for the stage.

And then there's another stage, three days in the last week. And then there's the Paris stage where Mathieu could also probably win. Yeah. So the question is, is he going to try really? I mean, he kept saying that the green is not a goal, but you know, once you're in it, we'll see. We will predict our, you know, our guesses who we will think wins in outcomes with Spencer Martin and we'll be back tomorrow for another

show. Thank you, Bradley. And see you soon. Thank you, mate. Bye.