THEMOVE - Tour de France Stage 17 | The Sir Wiggo & Johan Show

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

Johan Bruyneel and Sir Bradley Wiggins peel back the curtain on the tactics, strategy, and pivotal moments that shaped Stage 17 of the 2025 Tour de France, offering sharp analysis and insider perspective you won’t hear anywhere else. NordVPN: Get your Exclusive NordVPN deal here → https://nordvpn.com/themove It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! Ketone-IQ: Take your shot: Get 30% off your subscription, plus a free gift with your second shipment at https://Ketone.com/themove Ventum: Enter Ventum Trivia of the Day for a chance to win the Grand Prize: $5,000 of store credit towards any Ventum bike. Don’t want to leave it to chance, 10% off sitewide using the code THEMOVE10 or 20% off any NS1 road bike build with code NS120  https://ventumracing.com/themove/

You have to say about Inaos, they did completely change their way of riding, their racing style, the whole season already, but also in the Tour de France. And they got a nice victory with Arsene. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, one of only a few teams to one stage in this race. I think it's 15 teams that haven't won a stage. Yeah. Including, I think it's the first time in a long time that a French team hasn't won

a stage. Yeah, no French team has won a stage. That's true. Yeah, just one French rider on the Ensezard Quickstep. I'm the 2012 Tour de France winner Sir Bradley Wiggins. And I'm Johan Brunel. I directed my teams to nine Tour de France victories. Welcome to the Sir Wiggle and Johan show, our daily show where we dive deep into the

tactics behind every stage of the Tour de France. Hi everybody, welcome to our show. We're talking today about stage 17 from Boulogne to Valence, 170 kilometers, flatish, some little hills. As every day presented by Keto and IQ, and as every day, I'm happy to be here with Bradley Wiggins. Bradley, how did you see the stage? What's your main takeaway of the day? Well, my take of today, of course, is I would say Jonathan Milan, pretty much consolidating green, barring any crazy mishap or misfortune. He took as many points as he could today with the finish and of course getting fifth in the intermediate sprint as well. And part of that was because of the job that little

track did for him really. They threw everything they had at marshaling the brakes today, keeping the brake safe enough distance and then looking after him in a very sketchy final when the rain came and Jonathan delivered. So I think that was, you know, well on his way to, I think, being the first rider to ever win the Chiclamino jersey at the Giro and the points jersey at the Tour de France in the same year. Hmm.

Hmm. Wow. So he's on the verge of history. Well, in the same year, what would that be? No one's done it. No one's done it. He hasn't done it either. No, he hasn't done it.

No, he's on the verge of making history. He was not at the Giro. It was not the Giro. Oh no, he wasn't. Maz was, wasn't he? It was Maz. It's a little freck. Fair point. Yeah. He won it wasn't. It was a little track.

He wanted last year. He wanted last year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, no, that's, that's, I mean, listen, we, we thought it was going to be a bunch sprint. So it was, it was so much interest, right. Of, of several teams. It was a little track and,oudal and J.Co. And yeah, it was clear it was going to be a bunch print. Probably the last chance there's not going to be another bunch print because I think stage... We don't know how Paris is going to turn out, do we? We don't know with this new finish. Well, if it's going to be a bunch print, it's going to be a reduced group. It's going to have to be like 30 writers to call it a bunch print, right? Yeah.

Yeah. That remains to be seen, doesn't it? Yeah, for sure. We'll talk about one of our sponsors, Johan, anyway today, NordVPN. So NordVPN, you can safely access your favorite streams and other content from home, no matter where you go. Easily switch your virtual location to access apps and websites in other countries. Easy to use, connect with one click or enable auto connect for zero click protection.

7,500 servers in 118 countries and you can change your virtual location easily. Amazing speed, NordVPN is one of the fastest VPNs out there. I'm using it every morning to watch the coverage of the Tour de France when I wake up early. One NordVPN account. You can be used on up to 10 devices and get your exclusive NordVPN deal here. It's nordvpn.com forward slash the move. That's nordvpn.com forward slash the move. It's risk-free with NordVPN's 30-day money back guarantee. Link is in the episode show notes. Okay, Bradley. So we start the stage. I mean, I haven't seen it from kilometer zero, but when I turned on the broadcast, there

was a break of four riders, very, very strong riders. Jonas Abrahamson, Quentin Pache. Is it Pache or Pache? Pache. Pache. Not expensive. No, it's a Pache. Not Is it Paché or Pachère? Pachère. Pachère. Not expensive. No, it's not expensive. Then, Burgodot, also a strong rider, and Vincenzo Albanese. So, four really strong guys. But it was clear from, I mean, they never gave them more than two minutes. So, at some point, I was thinking, you know, when it started to rain, could this be

in the advantage? Maybe, you know, they don't want to take risks in the peloton, but it turned out to be just the usual breakaway. Jonas Abrahamson though, he's there again. What a strong guy. Yeah, I mean, he's won a stage. He's obviously, you know, he was, he was, he was quite consistent in last year's Tour de France, wasn't he held the King of the Mountain jersey for a couple of days. But in how many breaks last year? Six breakaways, I think in the Tour de France last year. Yeah. Crashing in the Tour of Belgium 10 days before the race.

Um, operated on. That still blows my mind. Yeah. And then of course, has won a stage. And of course, you know, X were the one, the wild cards of this race. That still blows my mind. And then of course there's one on stage. And of course, Uno X were the wild cards of this race. So, very, very impressive. And then it was the last man standing today in the race. Interesting little detail I discovered today by, I mean, actually your ex-teammate, you

remember him, Nic Fritsch, you were teammates with him on FDG, I guess. He told me that in 2017, he did Les Tabs du Tour, which is the grand fondo of the tour. So one of the big stages is always Les Tabs du Tour, whatever, 15,000 people participating. And in 2017, Jonas Abrahamson won lit up the tour over the Col de l'Izoard, which is, I mean, the top of the tour is always a mountain

stage, right? He was 18 kilos lighter than, than now. So we've, we've talked about his transformation, right? And how he decided to gain weight. But yeah, I didn't know that, that in 2017 he won Le Tap. Anyways, we see this breakaway Bradley, there's a lot going on in the Peloton, right? First of all, the teams are pacing, but then I wanna ask your thoughts on what Innaio's action was for on one of those climbs.

They went full gas. I actually don't know. I'm not too sure what their ambition was with that. What do you think? The only thing I can think about was that they, because they went really fast on a count four climb, they did obtain separation. The sprinters got dropped. And the only thing I can think of is that they wanted to sprint with Axel Lawrence,

which is a fast guy now. There's probably other guys who can beat Axel Lawrence. So I don't really understand what they were doing. They were impressive. Yeah, I mean, I think there's also an element with them, especially with Dave Broussard being back on the race, where, I mean, this is kind of where this was classic Dave, where, you know, rather than thinking the tour is done now and all switching off and kind of just rolling into Paris, he kind of musters the troops to maybe have an objective of some sort,

even if it's not the most obvious one, you know, and get them still, you know, kind of being competitive in this race. So, I mean, that's sort of classic Dave, really, in the sense that, you know, keeping their heads high, having, making sure that they're still contributing to the race in some form. So yeah, I mean, from that point of view, I can understand that. Just making the race, even if there's no sort of outcome for them. Yeah. Yeah, because I think, I mean, I do understand that you have to have something to

do with your team to keep the team together and motivated and just... It know, it's very easy to switch off in this part of the tour. Exactly. That the guys after the stage, even if you don't obtain the results, you still go away with a good feeling because they were talking about them. We're now talking about them. Yeah. Done something. Yeah.

Yeah. And they were, I mean, on a fourth category climb, the pedal tone was shattered. Almost all the sprinters were dropped. But then you kind of know that it's going to come back together, because the thing is with these kind of actions, Bradley, and I don't know what your opinion is on that, you know, the effort and the energy and the power you need to to make that separation, then you still need to have the power to keep it going. And that's where you can blow up your team and you can blow up the whole peloton, but then you

have nobody left to go, right? Yeah. Yeah. And especially like judging how much, how high the stakes are at the tour. They knew that Little Trek was going to do everything they could to score. And, and even so, I mean, and you saw clearly that there was people with, with Milan, there was people with Merlier in the back, but those two teams also sent back to have their strong riders. Yeah. Yeah. Including, including when Simmons at some point.

So so yeah, that was a bit strange. And then another, I mean, if you have a little track, Israel, Sudol, J.Co, controlling, yeah, I mean, but you're right, you know, I think it's about finding things to do and that they can take away with a good feeling and use it to build a box. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Right. You have to say about Inaos, they did completely change their way of riding, their racing style,

the whole season already, but also in this Tour de France. And they got a nice victory with Ars Man. Yeah. Yeah. One of only a few teams to one stage in this race. I think there's still 15 teams that haven't won a stage. Including, I think it's the first time in a long time that a French team hasn't won a stage.

Yeah, no French team has won a stage. That is true. Just one French rider on Soudal Quickstep. Anyway, I have another question for you, Bradley. But before we do that, I want to talk about a presenting sponsor ketone IQ. It's been widely reported that ketones are used in the Peloton by almost all the teams. ketone IQ has proven that it boosts athletic performance in a placebo controlled study with trained athletes. Ketone IQ boosted average sprint power by 19%, peak power by 13%, cut fatigue by 10%

and spiked blood ketones five times in just 20 minutes. Additionally, they found out that ketones help for a faster recovery. Ketone IQ teamed up with one of the big teams in this industry in France with the Vismalisa bike and also the University of Leuven to explore recovery and high altitude adaptation. Their key findings improve blood flow, higher muscle oxygenation for better endurance and stamina. I've had my double dose of ketones today, Bradley, this 10 gram ketone shot, no caffeine, no sugar. I took one today. I did a 78 kilometer mountain bike ride. Yeah. Quite long. So I took one just before I started one in the middle. No, nothing else. No carbs

and I was perfectly fine. Of course, I don't go very fast, but it definitely works. So if you want to try it, take your shot. You get 20% off your order at ketone.com slash to move using the code, the move at checkout. So that's ketone.com slash to move using the code to move. Bradley, another thing before we talk about the sprint. Wout van Aert, all of a sudden there's four riders away, they have one minute. Peace has returned to the bunch after Milan and all the sprinters came back.

You kind of know that that's it, right? I mean, unless one of these guys pulls out an amazing performance and takes off, always possible, but you know, Walter Nart attacks on another cat for client and straight away takes off 30 seconds and then stagnates and goes back to the bunch. What were you guys, I mean, I'm pretty sure you guys were all watching together then. What were you guys saying about this move? I mean, normally with anyone else who would do that, you would think it was a suicide move. But with Wout, you know, into the third week into a Grand Tour, we know what he's capable

of doing. He would have heard that it was starting to rain up ahead and the roads were going to get wet. And he was perhaps preempting that and getting up the road, you know, obviously preempting a, a, a lull in the Peloton perhaps. Um, and, and, you know, he wouldn't put it past, well, to have jumped across to that breakaway at that point and get close. So he did stagnate out there, but at the time he closed in quick and then stopped,

you know, and then, and then, you know, going away again from that breakaway and perhaps trying to win solo, we've seen him do in the past. Yeah. Um, and obviously with the knowledge or with the pre-information that it was wet up ahead and it was raining and it was technical and it was going to get chaotic. So, um, I think there was an element of that from, from Wout just to test his legs and, and, and go for a stage win. And probably also, you know, I'm going to guess, I mean, I'm just thinking out loud

here, you know, not having any information. Walt probably initially had a plan that he would actually try to sprint. Now, knowing that it was raining and knowing that Walt takes less risks than before, we need to be honest about that. Maybe he just said okay you know I'm just gonna give it a try I'm not gonna sprint anyway today because it's raining and I don't want to risk my life and yeah I mean you can't if I agree if it would have been any other rider would say what is he doing

but you can't pass. Yeah he might have anticipated that some more riders may have came with him as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that didn't work. Uh, but then, you know, I mean, I want to talk about Quinn Simmons today, Bradley. Quinn Simmons, what a job has he been doing? Pulling in the peloton, going back.

Uh, actually when, when initially, initially when, when Milan and all the sprinters were dropped, he stayed upfront and he kind of controlled that movement. And then finally he went back, then he brought the sprinters back and then he still kept pulling. And especially seeing how he crossed the finish line. He was actually even happier than Milan. Yeah, and you could see his teammates towards him as well when he crossed the line. He was the hero of the day for that team. Absolutely. Yeah, no, I mean, he's he's I joked on the

main show that you know, that's his job. And it's like praising the mailman for delivering your mail. That's what he's supposed to do. I was a bit tongue in cheek, you know, because he's he's done the job that he came to the tour to do. We spoke about last week, that was, you know, he had specific duties coming to this tour, but he's been in countless breakaways. He's, you know, been a joy to talk about and a joy to watch. And you know, he's been the most valuable teammate, I think, for

Lidl Trek and might be the difference between Milan winning green and not winning green is Quinn Simmons' job he's done at this tour. I think so. I think so if you look at it, you know, and also, I mean, okay, I think we all want Quinn Simmons to have opportunities, you know, and he definitely has the power and the form and the condition to win a stage. But we all know it's not easy to win stages at the tour. But one thing, even if he doesn't win a stage, and every day it's more and more unlikely. What about Paris? That suits him also. But I think if there's anything that Quinn Simmons is going to take away from this,

if it's not a stage win, is that he has become a much better rider. And he's proven that he has the big engine. If it's just a bit fine tuned in terms of when he attacks and when he sits on a little bit, I think this guy Yeah, I was I was really impressed really really impressed with him. Yeah Yeah, that was no really nice Anyways, then and in the final Bradley rain starts Man, I was dangerous with those roundabouts in the peloton. I mean if you see it from the yeah helicopter

That was that was crazy. I'm surprised there wasn't more accidents than there was. And then when the crash happened was the place you least expected to happen. But it wasn't anything to do with the road furniture or the barriers and et cetera. From the overhead shot, we saw that the Postenel rider was trying to get through a gap that was there that closed, was closed by the La Groupe Amar rider and Kofidis. Yeah. Um, but, but the carnage that it caused around it, and you know, with disc breaks now and that people slamming on, people were sliding sideways and kind of

the guy who did the best job to stay upright was Tim Melier. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you've watched him go through. Oh man. The cyclocross skills, cyclocross skills. Yeah. But you know, that crash happened right in the front and it sort of eight riders back and The minute it happened. It was like even George said this is it see you in the douches Merle Milan's gonna win because it wiped out all his main rivals, didn't it? Mm-hmm. Yeah

It was one K to go and Yeah Your DMS was was was close, but yeah, this was Milan's race. It's a shame about Bini because I think Bini looked like he was nursing a broken wrist or something. Yeah, it doesn't look good. When you see somebody come over to finish and they're holding their arm, it's never a good sign. It's never a good sign. It's never a good sign. Yeah.

Yeah. But what a day for Milan. I mean, he's firmly in the lead now in the green jersey competition and I think on Spencer's calculation, if everything goes to plan and Pogacar wins the two mountain stages, Milan still wins in Paris by two points, I think. I think what they will try to do tomorrow, they will go full gas for the first sprint, he wins that and then it's mathematically over. Then he just needs to worry about making the time cut. Which is no mean feat, is it, tomorrow? I mean, what a stage to add to yourself for the first hour. Yeah, I know, I know. 5,500 meters of climbing tomorrow.

We'll talk about tomorrow's stage. Let's first do our daily Ventum trivia, Bradley. We had yesterday's question was, in 2016, race leader and eventual winner Chris Froome famously ran up a portion of the slopes of the Mont-Mont-Tout. Why was he forced to run? The answer, his bike was badly damaged in a crash involving a motorbike and crowded roads so he didn't have access to a spare bike. So that was the correct answer. His bike was too badly damaged and couldn't keep going. Didn't have access to a spare bike. Yeah.

Stage 17 question. Today's question is the Rome Valley, the location of stage 17 is known for Peloton breaking winds. The question is what formation do riders form to try and combat crosswinds? So what formation do riders form to try and combat crosswinds so what formation do riders form to try and combat crosswinds? Do we want the English word for that or the French word?

Yeah I mean we're gonna say both or both. Yeah, both. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So send your best guest to VentumRacing.com slash The Move and you can enter into this year's contest a grand prize of $5,000 of store credit towards any Ventum bike you want to purchase. Don't want to wait until the end of the tour, Ventum is also offering a standing discount during the duration of the tour of 10% of the whole site using the code theMove10 and 20% off any NS1 bike with the code NS120. So 10% off the Move10 and 20% off for an NS1 bike, NS120. Tomorrow's stage, Bradley, I know you talked about it on the move. This is definitely the queen stage, right? This is the hardest stage.

You see the profile here, three HC climbs. HC means horse categories, so special category. So even harder than a cat one climb. Yeah. 5,400 meters of climbing. Big day today. What do you think will happen? I mean, Visma.

I've heard Bradley with Visma. I've been told by somebody who's close to the team that they have calculated their whole race centered on this stage. This is the stage where it needs to happen. What do you think they need to do? I mean, I think at this stage of the race, if they're really serious that second place means nothing, which to us watching it, watching a two time winner of this race who's finished second a couple of times, you know, I think a lot of the sports world or a lot of the cycling community would

be happy to see this guy go down fighting and finish last in this Tour de France, but having tried. Now on a stage like this, I mean, what can you do against the greatest rider of all time? I mean, we've seen him try to isolate Tadej, you know, but we need to see, I mean, I'd like to see him do what he did on Mont Ventoux on the first climb tomorrow or on the Madeleine. Yeah. Which is, yeah. I think, I think it needs to be the Madeleine Bradley. And go man-on-man. And go man-on-man. Yeah. Which is, yeah. I think, I think it needs to be the Madeline Bradley. And go man on man. Go man on man. Yeah. So first, I think first that they need to, they need to make sure they have guys

in the breakaway. Uh, it kind of need to be their climbers. Uh, it's not going to, you know, Yeah. I mean, And Victor Campenares are not going to cut it tomorrow. It needs to be Simon Yates and Sapkus and eventually Matteo Jorgensen. Although I think there must be something not right with Matteo. He's not on his usual level, so maybe he's sick. But the glandon is hard, but there's a lot of rests in between. The motherland from this side is incredibly hard. It's constant, it's hard, but there's a lot of rests in between. The motherland from this side is incredibly hard.

It's constant, it's hard. And I think they need to have guys up the road. Jonas needs to try and he needs to be able to shake Bulacar because especially what we see the last few stages is that Tadej is following Jonas as he should. And he doesn't have to take any initiative. That's the situation they're in. I think they have to hope for a weak moment of Tadej. Which is always possible. It can always happen.

We need to hope for it as cycling fans that this is going to be the case. But we'll see that tomorrow Bradley. Thanks for your time and we'll speak soon.