THEMOVE - Tour of Romandie 2025 Breakdown | THEMOVE

Episode Date: May 4, 2025

Spencer Martin and Johan Bruyneel break down the 2025 edition of the Tour of Romandie, which saw João Almeida take an impressive overall victory over Bahrain-Victorious' Lenny Martinez and Almeida's UAE teammate Jay Vine. They discuss the key moments of the race and debate what Remco Evenepoel's up-and-down performance en route to 5th place overall means for his future as a genuine challenger to the sport's top GC superstars. And, before they take off, they dive into XDS-Astana's incredible recent points haul, what it means for their potential future as a WorldTour team, and how it could spell major trouble for a current incumbent. Tushy: Over 2 million butts love TUSHY. Get 10% off Tushy with the code THEMOVE10 at https://hellotushy.com/THEMOVE Maui Nui: Maui Nui offers the only 100% Wild-Harvested meat that's completely stress-free and responsibly sourced. It's perfect for anyone looking to elevate their meals with delicious, high-quality protein. Maui Nui Venison is offering THEMOVE listeners a limited collection of our favorite cuts and products. But...supply is limited by the nature of their work, so don't wait. Check them out. https://mauinuivenison.com/lp/THEMOVE?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=show_notes&utm_campaign=THEMOVE&utm_term=THEMOVE&utm_content=landingpage NordVPN: Get your Exclusive NordVPN deal here → https://nordvpn.com/themove It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! Pique: For a limited time, get 20% off for life plus a free Starter Kit (rechargeable frother and glass beaker) when you grab the Pu'er Bundle. With Pique's 90-day money-back guarantee, you've got nothing to lose. Try it now at https://www.piquelife.com/themove and feel the difference on your next ride.  

But it's a great way for TV UAE to keep these super talented writers, because let's face it, you know, Almeida could be the number one leader in any team except UAE. And that's a really good way to keep them happy, to keep them motivated, give them their own chances. And Almeida, we have to say, he took his chances anytime they were presented to him. Everybody, welcome back to The move. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johann Bruniel and we are breaking down the tour of Romandy, the five, I guess really six stage, stage race in Switzerland.

And the French speaking part of Switzerland, Switzerland, one by Joel Almeida with Remco Ebeneboul taking the final stage, the time trial in Geneva. But first, before we get into that, let's hear from our show partners and we'll get Johan's take on how this race played out. Everybody, this episode is brought to you by Tushy. What if I told you the most luxurious seat in your house might actually be your toilet? Well, I've been using Tushy, Clouds plus bidet,

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cuts and products but supply is limited by the nature of their work. So don't wait. Head to mauinuivenison.com slash the move to secure your access. Now again, that's mauinuivenison.com slash the move that's spelled M-A-U-I-N-U-I venison.com slash the move. Maui, just like the island, M-A-U-I-Nui-N-U in UI venison.com slash the move. All right. Let's get into the episode. All right, Johan, Joel made a Wednesday overall, but let me go back through. I'll just catch everybody up in case they didn't watch this line to line. Like myself, I'll go through each stage winner, give it a little brief shout out when needed. And then we're going to get your thoughts on the big picture here. It started with the prologue short, I think it was like two or three minutes,

maybe four minutes. It's like one of the oddest, most exciting stages of the year. Sam Watson, British writer on NAOS wins was called into the race. The day before was on a training ride. They said, Hey, you got to get to a into Geneva ASAP so you can race this race wins the prologue. Not a bad way to show up stage one, won by another British writer, Matthew Brennan on Visma Lisa bike only 19 years old gets his third world tour win of the year. Super impressive. He's also at the front of Peru Bay for a good chunk of the race.

Not bad for a teenager. Things get weird on stage two. We'll break it down and a little bit more in depth later in the episode. But Lorenzo Fortunato on Astana wins that stage. J Vine from like a breakaway, a late forming breakaway. J Vine wins stage three uphill finish, exploded away, held his gap. One kind of surprised the group I thought. Stage four, big summit finish. Lenny Martinez on Bahrain, victorious wins it right ahead of Joel Ameda, who pretty much seals the overall right here because he gets a gap on his own

teammate, J vine, his biggest threat for the overall then stage five, today's time trial in Geneva, one by Remco Ebenapal, not a big surprise, even though he got dropped on stage four. He just looked so smooth and arrow out there. Joao Almeida does what he needs to do, seals up the overall win with Lenny Martinez and second overall 26 seconds back. Pretty interesting. Jay Vine third 41 seconds back. Lorenzo Fortunato, 122 back for him. Go ahead and pull 126 back in fifth. But Johan,

what is like, what's your big picture thought on this? So there's, we should say as well made, I think I was giving them crap a mere month ago for never winning stage races. This is his first second world tour stage race win in the last month, I believe. So not, not too bad for our guys. Wow. Yeah. I think, I think the, the, the main takeaway is that Almeda is doing a great season, Spencer. I think the main takeaway is that Almeida is doing a great season, Spencer. You know, he started the season. He was very strong in Vuelta Valenciana. Didn't win it finally. Finished second in that race.

Was he beaten by what's the Colombian guy from Bahrain? Butrago. Butrago. Butrago, he was very strong there. But anyways, he was there. Then he finished the second in Algarve, Tour of Algarve, his home race, when he gave away the stage to Jan Christen. Then after that, he had a stage win, impressive stage win by beating Jonas Winkelgaard in Paris Nice and finished sixth overall. Was a bit sick in the last few days. Then he has two stage wins in the Tour of the Basque Country,

Itzulia and wins the overall. And now he wins the overall of Tour of Ramondi. I think it's hard to say since it's not a good season. It's a great season for the moment. And one of the riders in UAE, who whenever he has the opportunity, takes his own chance. You know, whenever he races and Bogacar is not there, he takes his chance. And I think this is probably also part of a whole plan. You know, a rider like Joe Almeida, let's not forget he was fourth in the Tour de France last year. Super strong. And he got his own chances the whole spring. And now he's going to prepare for the tour.

I'm going to guess he's doing Dauphiné and Tour de France. That will be all in function of Pogacar, of course. But it's a great way for team UAE to keep these super talented writers. Because let's face it, you know, John May, that could be the number one leader in any team except UAE. And that's a really good way to keep them happy, to keep them motivated, give them their own chances. And, you know, I'll make that we have to say he took his chances anytime they were presented to him.

Yeah, we should say his next race, you know, cause if you're thinking, wow, this guy could win the zero to tell you he's not racing it. His next race is the tour. You're right. He could be a leader on another team. I think everyone has a rule of thumb. We're going to be doing a Swiss is probably his next race. Oh, you're right. You're sorry. I meant like next grand tour. If I'm, if I'm, if I'm UAE, you know, um, didn't you win tour Switzerland last year? or was it Adam Yates who won it?

I don't remember that was Adam Yates over as well. Okay. Yeah. So, so you know, I mean, if, if you, you, if they're smart and they are, you know, they're going to put Joel Maida as the leader into Switzerland. He's going to go for it again, has his chance. And then he will be, you know, full service for, uh, that Apple got char and he is a great teammate. You know, he is, uh, whenever he has, he's needed, he's there. So, um, yeah, I think this is definitely, uh, his best spring

so far from his whole career. I mean, you say full service. I don't disagree, but he got fourth last year. I don't, maybe I'm too excited after this win. I don't think it's off the, out of the question for him to be on the podium, especially with me. We don't know how Jonas vinegar is going to be. Yeah.

I mean, he's, he's up there. He's up there. He was, uh, you know, he was, he was there for Pogacar whenever he needed to be there. Not that Pogacar needed a lot of support, but it's always good to have a rider like Almeida. If he gets back to really good form for the Tour de France, let's look at, for example, their big competition is Jonas on Visma and Tadej on UAE. Then you have the next two guys. The next really strong guy for GC of Visma is Matteo Jorgensen.

UAE has Almeida and Adam Yates. We don't know what Adam Yates will be like after the Giro, but still, if you put Almeida and Jorgensen together, that's a trade-off. I would say maybe even a better, a little bit advantage to Almeida compared to Jorgensen for the moment. Not that it's going to stay like that, but it's a great guy to have on your team if you're today Pogacar. And he's, you know, I think they get along really well. He's worked for Pogacar whenever he needed to. So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm impressed with him. And, uh, you know, two of the big, um, world tour, um,

what is how to call it? Like the, you have the three grand tours and then you have the next seven big races, right? So there's been three of those. It's been, uh, there's been, uh, Tireno, Parinis, Catalonia and Romandi. I mean, he went two of the four. Uh, he has a shorter tour of Switzerland also. Uh, so yeah, not bad. Not bad at all. Um, I, I, I apologize, Mr. Almeida. I think I was too harsh on you this spring. You were, you were, you were, you were, you've, you've, I've heard you say a few. Almeida. I think I was too harsh on you this spring. You were, you were, you were. I've heard you say a few times, Almeida just always managed to not win the race. Yeah, best GC rider in the world who can't win a race is I think what I said.

He's very good. I actually had a list of, I was making a list of the best GC riders in the sport. My wife walked by my computer and I was like, why do you have as well made up there? I'm like, he's actually really good. If you look at it, like the guy is, you forget about him, but he could podium. He finished fourth at the tour last year behind the three best stage races in the world. We'll get to rimco in a minute, but he is, he's impressive. I actually, what impressed me most about this race is how I guess unnoteworthy the win was. You know, he didn't win a stage. He looked calm. You told me that he'd said he didn't feel good that he was, that's what he said. Yeah. Conservatively. And kind of thought it helped him to an extent because

it just took care of, he didn't panic on stage two, stage two things went a little sideways when that group went up the road. His teammate went stage three, go looks like he might win the overall. And then stage four, it's a little awkward because him and Vine were attacking in that group. Does he really want to drop J Vine? He does, but can he make it look obvious? Like he's trying to drop J Vine. I thought they handled it pretty well. I also am constantly surprised. I don't know if this is a new thing, a kids these days thing, but Almeida goes, Martinez is on his wheel. Vine is behind him. Of course he's not going to pull. And then Fortunato was looking at him like, Hey man, you're going to pull me up there. It's like, no, he's not

going to like, why, why would you waste those precious seconds wondering if that's going to happen? I mean, maybe, maybe teamwork has gotten so bad that people can count on that. But I thought he just was really impressive on, on the it's cause it's like tie on, tie on 2000, thigh on 2000 up to the ski resort on stage four didn't win the stage, but didn't matter. Just took care of business and then was solid in the time trial. They didn't beat Remco Evanoff, but he didn't need to. He just finished, you know, what 12 seconds back. Yeah. He did an impressive time trial.

You know, it's the key. It's the key to winning a stage race. You don't need to win a stage. You just need to be always there. He was always there. It's true. He did say that, he did say before yesterday's stage that he didn't feel great and that he hoped he was going to feel okay during the stage. I don't know that, that was tactical or not. Uh, I thought, I thought you looked pretty good man for somebody who doesn't feel good. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Also Spencer. So you already mentioned, um, the, the, the prologue writer. What's his name again? I keep forgetting his name. Samuel Watson. Yeah. Yeah. What a way to show up and, you know, being called on a training ride. He was, he seems to live in Andorra. He got called because I guess somebody got sick. It does happen. It does happen in teams, you know, that somebody all of a sudden is not feeling well. And yeah, it was basically a call up, say, okay, we need to just come over. We have to have it's not it's an obligation. We have to have seven riders at the start. So otherwise we get a fine.

So fly over and yeah, the guy wins the prologue. No pressure. The second stage though, man, Matthew Brennan, or the first stage, if you count the prologue as a prologue, that kid is the real deal. He's 19 years old. It's his third win in a world tour race. No complexes. He just is there fighting it out. We saw him in very, very good position for a very long time in Paris-Roubaix also. Yeah, we need to remember that name. I think's the real deal. I think he can, you know, he, he's like a type type Sean Kelly. Yeah, yeah.

You know, still need, okay, we'll see in stage races, but in NGCs, but he's up there in the classics, he can win sprints. I still can't get over the way he, how he won that sprint, the first stage in Tour of Catalonia. That was unbelievable. I've never seen something like that. Did the lead out of, I would say close to a kilometer, like a lead out to Kaden Groves and he beat Kaden Groves and Kaden Groves is one of the best sprinters in the world. Because he had to bridge it up to Tibor Del Grosso, who was escaped. Anyway, we're getting off track.

And not even like a top spinner, like a top difficult finish spinner. It was a perfect finish for Kaden Grove. Yeah, yeah, he must have been cooked though. But yeah, another really young guy who's up there straight away with the best in the world. So, yeah, another, another really young guy, uh, who's, who's up there straight away with the best in the world. So, um, so yeah,

it's, it's crazy. Visma, Lisa bike has, this is the number one team in the world three years ago. They have six world tour wins. Half of them have come from Matthew Brennan, a teenager. Yeah. So good, good thing they signed them. Yeah. Pick up for the year.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. What do you think about Lenny Martinez, second at this race? I thought better performance than I would have expected from him to finish within half a minute of the win. Well, I'm not really surprised. You know, I mean, Lenny Martinez is a pure climber. He's tiny. He has numbers, watts per kilo, really mind blowing.

He's a super talent, only 21 years old. Also a guy who passed professional, I would say he was under 19 still, I think, when he went to a group, not if he was two years there or three years there, but, uh, he's, I have the impression he spent like three years at the group, and then went for a huge contract to, to Bahrain victorious. But, um, I mean, that team obviously believes in him a big time and, uh, for week stage races, for the moment, if it's one big mountain stage and a shorter time trial, he'll be up there. He'll be up there.

And he did an amazing ride yesterday on Tion 2000, really riding smart, very tactically. You could see that UAE was driving it at the end and he was following the guy he had to follow. And then when he saw that J. Vine was dropped, he didn't shy away from working with with Yaw Almeida. A few times he was on the limit, but he was, he kept, you know, he kept the wheel and finally was able to, you know, he already won, he won a stage in Paris Nice also the same way, also an uphill finish. Um, and he's been, yeah, he's been, he's been up there for, for quite a bit, you know, this, this season and uh, uh, listen, finishing second in tour of Romandy. I think he, I mean, in this interview, he said he was happy with the result.

Did a pretty good time trial, also finished 13th for a long time trialist for a little guy like that. And it was not specifically a time trial for climbers. There was a little climb in it, but he's in like in time trials below 20k, he's not bad. You know, he's small, obviously, there's not a lot of drag, but he does pretty good time trial sometimes. Yes. That was my big kids for GC riders, like GC prodigies. I want to see, I want to see big numbers, time trial list. I want you to be a time trust. Then we'll, then we'll deal with the climbing because climbing is just time trialing, especially at the tour of France. It's just like Matteo Jorgensen. Perfect.

That's my deal. Let's turn this guy into a GC contender. I don't love the Lenny Martinez. I don't know, Spencer. A lot of people are going to, if you say climbing is just time traveling, but is it not just putting out lots of power for a long time? There's two guys who are going to disagree with you. Let me tell you. Well, so, but so how do you go up? How do you go up a mountain fast? You just put out power, right?

For like 50 minutes. Yeah. OK. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then that's how you do well in a time trial. And it's I mean, yeah. I mean, if you look at people, Ghana, you know, he's the great time trialist and he goes pretty well up mountains. Go up in a poll, pretty good climber. Yeah.

Tadej Pogacar, not bad at climbing. Yeah. These top talents. I mean, listen, if you look at, for example, the top three of the Tour de France last year, Pogacar, Jonas and Remco, they're the best climbers and also the three best time trialists of the race. So, you know, it's, it's, they are that talented, you know, but, uh, if you look at, uh,

for example, a guy like Stefan Kuhn, he's not a great climber. Uh, you know, back in the days you had Fabian Cancellara was the best time trial in the world. Well, he, he was not a good climber. Yeah. Those guys. Yeah. I mean, maybe they've gone over the, I also think like surge climbing is done, you know, like even like peak and I reckon Tana, you put them in a modern tour Peloton. The pace is so consistent.

Those guys would just get ridden off the wheel. Yeah. So the power demands have increased like Garret Thomas at 2018 tour when to me that's like beginning to the end. I mean, it's even like our colleague Bradley Wiggins, like he was just climbing by putting on a ton of power for a long time. And then Garret Thomas, like in 2018, you remember he won two back to back mountain stages. Wasn't even considered a climber at the time, but it just gives the power. His average power was so high for those climbs, but to take it back to Lenny Martinez, this is a really, really encouraging sign to time trial that well. Yeah. And I don't want to be anti-Frenchist, but they definitely have, I would not

say if you like think of who are the best time trialist GC contenders, you would not say like modern French writers, who are the best time trialist GC contenders, you would not say like modern French riders, but now like Kevin Buckland and Lenny Martinez, like that could be changing. These guys are, they have, they have a great 18 year old talent, Paul Seychas, who, who is a great climber and a great time trialist. Uh, you know, you want to stage in tour of the Alps at 18 years old. So we need, we need to keep that guy on our list. We had him, we had him on the up and commerce, but that's in my opinion, that's the guy right now. Uh,

who's the big hope for the French for the future. Isn't that crazy that I agree by the way, but it's crazy that Lenny Martinez 21 years old, been been pro multiple years, second at Romadie. And he's like, not even the most hype young French talent. And in some ways like, he's kind of old. He's 21 years old. But let's, we'll talk about, Fortunado gets, gets fourth with Astana.

I guess we should talk about J Vine for a second. So J Vine's third, any thoughts that this is actually J vine, I would looked it up. It's like, man, that's pretty good result. This is like by far his best European world tour GC result. He has one tour down under before he's never finished in the top 10 of a European, uh, stage race. He's crashed a lot. And I don't have the details now, but something tells me that he has been out

again at the beginning of the season, maybe after down under or something, or I don't remember now, but anyways, he's, uh, he's on great form now. I, I, I've seen that he goes to the Giro also. Um, so he's going to have his chances there. He's in good shape. He's a good time trialist also. I mean, yeah, let's not forget also the guy had a bunch of really bad crashes. It was very, very hurt in that crash in the tour of the Basque country last year. I think he broke several vertebrae. very, very hurt in that crash in the tour of the boss country last year.

I think he broke several, several vertebrae. I go, was that just last year? Yeah, that does feel like one. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I came back from that crash and very late in the season because he was really, really bad. He was one of the worst. Him and Steph cross were, I mean, everybody talked about Jonas and, but Jay Vine and Steph Cross were the two biggest victims physically of that crash. And I have, don't have the, you know, it doesn't come up in my mind, but I think something else has happened in between to Jay Vine after his comeback from the crash

in the, in the Basque country. So, no, I mean, listen, he's finished his third, had a solid ride, great stage win. Also did a good time trial today. Um, was he third or fourth in the time trial? Fourth was fourth in the time trial. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, I mean, I think, uh, it was, it's strange to see because it looked to me yesterday, right on the, on the climb to Tion 2000, that at some point it was like, I was actually, uh, Almeida who started to pace for Jay Vine. Yeah. That's what I thought was happening. And, um, yeah, then for some reason, um, I mean, as soon as they, they,

they found out that the, the, the leader, another French rider, young rider, what's his name? Alex Bodwin. Yes. He was in the lead on EF. Also young rider for French rider. So, um, so because he was, yeah, he was part of that breakaway, uh, when Lodar Reza Fortunato won the stage. Um, so as soon as they start, that's, that's a little bit what I, what I found strange of certain teams, not so much of UAE, uh, but you know, listen, it's a 20 kilometer climb was 20 kilometers uphill.

And you go over 2000 meters. I think they went to 2100 meters or something. Yeah. Yeah. I guess the 2000 would designate the elevation. Yeah. So I found it really strange to see, for example, a team like Lotto. They heard that the leader was dropped and then they started making crazy tempo with this writer, this Argentinian writer Sepulveda, who did a great job. But I was thinking by myself, what are they doing? Who is in the car making those decisions? Because it's not like Van Eetveldt was going to drop everybody on that climb. It was not just a Baudouin, there was Fortunato, there was, I mean, Jay Vine had an advantage. I mean, he was not in the break with Van Eetveld, but I don't know if it's the rider, Van Eetveld, who said, okay, I have 30 seconds on all the favorites,

I'm going to win this. I mean, it's 20 kilometer climb. It's a really, really hard climb. You know, you can compare like this climb. You can compare this with big Alpine climb, you know, like, like I mean, like, like Alpe du West or even, even similar to Mont Ventoux, I would say it's a big climb. It's almost 8% average for the 20k. So I was saying, I was saying, what is Lotto doing? Sepulveda went crazy. He did a great temple, great temple. He actually put Vlasov in trouble.

He put the hurt on Remco, even a pool. He dropped a bunch of really big riders. And then I see finally Van Eetveld finishes three minutes behind. You know, then, then I think, okay, why would Sepulveda, especially if there's, if there's riders like Lenny Martinez, like Almeida and Jay Vine, they have strong teams, let them do the work, save your guy, the Sepulveda. And if Van Eetveld is in trouble, at least have him to pace Van Eetveld up the climb. Okay, if you listen, if you lose three minutes, it doesn't really matter if you have guy who paces or not, just because you don't have the legs, right? But I found it really

strange to see team like Lotto take the responsibility as if they were going to win the Tour of Romandy, because there's still a time trial to come also and Van Eetveldt, he's a great rider, but he's not the top five time trials of this field and he's not in the top five climbers of this field. So I don't know if it's the rider himself who decides, okay, I'm feeling great. I want to win this. Place me up here. Or if it comes from the car, I, you know, I'm, my mind is blown by when I see stuff like that.

Well, when they do that, it almost makes it seem like they watched liaised and like, Whoa, look at that tactic. Let's try that. But who, isn't it in their advantage for it to be as easy as possible because Leonard Van Etveld already had the advantage? Like who were they trying to hurt there? I didn't understand that. I think they got overexcited when Bauduin was dropped. But they still had, I mean, there was four other guys in the break. So, in Fortunato is a good climber. Juan Pelopes is not a bad

climber. You could argue they'rees is not a bad climber. You could argue they're all better climbers than Leonard Manette. They all finished ahead of him by minutes. So I don't know. I don't know. I didn't. Yeah. I was equally confused. I just like fully didn't understand it. Like to the point where I was wondering if they were getting bad information about the race situation. I was flummoxed. I mean, before we go, we're going to go to break and then we're going to dig into rim coast performance here. But what did you think about the UAE, I guess, dual because is there not an alternate reality where Almeida just rides a steady tempo vine goes to the line, gets second behind Martinez and then wins the overall. Like, was it even

necessary to do what they did? line goes to the line, get second behind Martinez and then wins the overall. Like, was it even necessary to do what they did? Well, I mean, they, they tried to get rid of Martinez each on their time. Or, you know, yeah, I guess, and fortunate as well. Yeah. And, um, I mean, they kind of had to get a little bit of time on Fortunato, uh, to be safe. Martinez was not far ahead of them. So, um, but they still wanted to have some time. So, you know, they were two guys, they, and I guess Vine, uh, tried a few times and then, uh, just paid for it. You know, didn't, uh, didn't lose a lot of time, but it was a matter of, you know, which UAE guy wins this race. And there, I

think that Almeida was the smartest guy. Although I do have my doubts that initially he was trying to base Jay Vine. I guess as soon as they saw that Remco was dropped, because I think they were worried about Remco, you know, with the time trial saw that Remco was dropped, because I think they were worried about Remco with the time trial. If Remco would be able to stay within the time of Almeida and Jay Vine, then of course they had a problem with the time trial. So as soon as Remco got in trouble, they started to up the pace and it was Almeida first. So I was thinking, okay, Jay Vine is the

guy. But still, you know, it was still 10K to go or something or 8K to go to the top and the hardest 8K at the end. And especially getting higher and higher once you get to 1700, 1800 meters, it becomes more difficult because of less oxygen. So I think they did they wrote the perfect race and then you know, if Jay Vine just didn't have the legs anymore to follow. So Almeida tried and he also tried to get rid of Martinez a few times almost managed to get rid of him. Um, but yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't have anything to say about the tactics of UE. I think they were, they were as good as they can get. Well, the flip side of this is they ride conservatively. Lenny Martinez wins the stage.

They go into the time trial. Lenny Martinez wins the overall cause he has a really good time trial. Like that would be silly. So no, no, he wouldn't have, he wouldn't have, uh, won the overall because let's imagine, imagine he had a better time trial and they didn't attack them on stage four. They look pretty silly for just taking them into the final, letting them lead into the final day. Yeah. He was never going to beat, he was never going to beat Joe Almeida in the time trial. And wouldn't we have said no way Mateusz Schelman was a winsam still gold. That's true. That's different. That's different. That's different. That's that's

that's tactics. That's different. Time trial is the race of truth. You know, uh, well, also when you found made a flats in that time trial too. Okay. Yeah. But you would still have Jay Vine then, you know, because if Jay Vine stays with Lenny and he would, he would have won, you know, he would have won cause Jay Vine lost, uh, he lost time to 35 seconds on stage four. Plus, I guess even more than that, he lost 31 plus 10 seconds time bonus of 41 seconds. So if they don't drop, if they both stay with, with, with Lenny Martinez, it's for sure. One of the two UAE guys who wins the overall.

It also shows the weird situation UAE is in because as you're saying at the beginning of the show, they're doing this, like this keep Joao and Maeda happy. This is important. But if you get, keep getting into these situations where they have such deep teams and you say, sorry guys, someone got the Jersey before you did. Then it's like, Joao made us thinking, well, when am I ever going to get my turn? Like why am I even on this team? But you got to keep them happy for the tour because he's so valuable during the

tour. And if he gets to lead these races, it's like, well, I'm not going to beat Pagache anyway. So if I'm leading at the non tour races, that's just as good as being a team leader elsewhere. Maybe you really see Spencer also like yesterday, Jay Vine played the team, the team perfectly because you know, once he was dropped, he didn't help. I mean, it's not that it really matters because it's deep and uphill, but you know, he didn't really a fortunate. Yeah. I mean, realistically to Lenny Martinez, probably drops J vine

yesterday. Don't you think knowing what we know? Well, yeah, but you know, then he would have had to attack. Now it was Almeida who accelerated and tried to drop Martinez. And by, you know, consequence, he also dropped his own teammate. Would you, if you were the director of UAE, would you have made Martinez attack? Or would you have gone out aggressively? Like, would you have just sat in and said like, Hey, are you going to attack us? We got two guys here. They did. It worked out fine. You know, there's nothing to say about their tactics from yesterday.

Of course, you never know how the legs of your guys are going to respond. Probably their plan was that the three of them would come together with Almeida and Jay Vine together with Lenny Martinez. And then whoever had the strongest time trial would have won. But it didn't work out that way. So. Well let's take a quick break for our partners and then I'm going to ask you about Remco Webinopol. This episode is brought to you by NordVPN. No doubt you've heard of VPNs, but here's why I use one. NordVPN keeps my data safe, especially when I'm traveling or hopping between coffee shop, Wi-Fi, and airport lounges.

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They're going over a climb, but it's flat for like the last 40 K basically of this race or rolling to flat. Even a pull attacks through the time bonus at the top of the climb. I think, well, okay, he's going for the time bonus, but then wait, no, maybe he doesn't even get a time bonus. He just like attacked over the top of the climb. I thought, all right, well, that's kind of weird.

Keeps going like it's a one day race. But then it's like, well, realistically, I don't think you're going to ride away from this, these people with 40 K a flat left. What are you doing? But he stirs to the, this pot to the point where it launches a group off the front. Originally UAE was in there with Jay Vine, which is like not good.

It's a bad situation. I think it was Jay Vine. I hope it was Jay Vine. It was it. It reshuffles. It's Fortunato. I think it was J Vine. I hope it was J Vine. It was it. It reshuffles. It's Fortunato, Alex Boudin, who we talked about, Van Etfelt, Juan Pedro Lopez, and his teammate Junior LeSerf, which is I guess an okay situation. But then whenever you're in a situation like that, you're asking yourself, was Junior LeSerf

going to out climb all of these guys and out time trial them? Probably not. So this is a bad situation for us. It ended up not matter. I was thinking, wow, he's really put himself in a tough position. Not did not, ended up not mattering because he gets dropped on stage four rides in with Lusurf. Nice thing to do, I guess. And then wins the time trial on stage five. But what did you take away from this? You know, I was con I would found myself just confused about the whole thing. Like why was he attacking back on stage two?

Was it always the plan to sit up on stage four or did he just not feel well? And then, no, it was not the plan at all. But I think, I think Remco is discovering his level of fitness still, you know, he, it's, it's gone up and down a bit. He came in very strong, won Fles Brabanson, was third in Amstel, did a strong race then, you know, Fles Valon and Liège were a bit of a disappointment. Initially, the Tour of Romandie was not on his calendar.

He added it at the last moment. So, I think a guy like Remco is always has high ambitions, right? So whenever he comes into a race, he's gonna he's gonna give it his all. I think that attack on stage two was was I expected it to be earlier. He attacked very late on that climb. And to my surprise, there were, what was it, between 15 and 20 riders and nobody else came back. So that was, that was a selection there. And he, they caught, caught out. I mean, he got caught out tactically a bit, but you could see in stage two that Remco was the, the, the, one of the favorites and that actually nobody wanted to ride with him

or not a lot of people wanted to ride with him, not even the two UAE guys who were also caught out. So at the start of Romandy, nobody was really trusting the fact that if Remco would say, well, I'm just coming here to see how it goes. They didn't know how he was gonna respond on the 20 kilometer climb in stage four. And I think Remco himself was also, I mean, he didn't really know how he was going to

be. I saw an interview after stage three when Jay Vine won and he said, okay, well, tomorrow it's an hour long climb. It's an hour long effort. I'm going to go as fast as I can and see where I am. Turned out that he was not up there with the first guys and then nice gesture of him to pace up his teammate, Junior Le Cerf. But if Remco would have had the legs, he would not have been there. He would have been up front and he would never have waited for Le Cerf who was in that five man breakaway, right? That was at that point, I think he was second in GC or third in GC.

But still, I think, you know, he, he did a pretty good climb. Didn't lose, you know, it's not like he lost four or five minutes, right? He was, what did he lose? Like a minute and a half or something? A minute and a half, almost exactly. 129. Yeah. So not that much.

Not bad. Let's not forget he comes back from far and then today wins the time trial, you know, being the world champion and Olympic champion. I think it's pretty good. You know, he's not, he's not where he wants to be. But I think it's also kind of logical. I think the expectations that Remco puts himself on him. And then also of course the public by him,

by seeing him showing up his first race, winning straight away, beating Walde Van Aert, second race, catching up to Thay P Pugacha or something that almost nobody has done in the last two or three years. And like a 250 kilometer race. Of course the expectations are high and he himself had these high expectations. I think he was a lot better than he expected to be in his first races. And we could see also in some of his interviews that he was, his,

his morale was super high. You know, let's not forget. He said after I'm still, yeah, if I wouldn't have been in the crash, I could have won this race and I would have been coming in by myself. That's probably not, you shouldn't say that. So probably the right thing to say. No, no, no. But listen, the guy's a winner. The guy's a, he has the champions mentality. He never, he's always going to try, you know, you can see he always gives it his all. And, um, I think, I mean, listen, he wins the time trial finishes fifth overall, uh,

in the GC, uh, you could, it's, you can't say it's bad. Uh, I think it's, it's the next step towards building his form up for the two of the France. Okay. Yes. All that's all that's true. I mean, what is he 26 years old and he's, he's, he's the only place left for him to go is to be as good as Jonas Vindigo and Tadej Pogacar. Like he's accomplished everything else. I'm just going to read this. These are the four GC contenders and these are the last five world tour stage race results. And tell me which one is unlike the others. The first person sample one, first, first, first, first, second sample two, first, second, first, second, first. I think that's five.

It's all one in twos sample numberple number three, first, first, first, 10th, third, sample number four, fifth, third, seventh, second, 12th. That's, that's the Remco sample that immediately sticks out as just so much less consistent than the rest. I mean, like ever it's like hard to imagine actually, like, like even think of Jonas Vinneke, all these problems, all these injuries, he basically gets first or second in every stage race he does. Same thing with Pogacar. Roglic's the same. He had that one blip, 10th at Perinice last year. Other than that, he's almost always in the top three, usually wins. And then it just makes me wonder all of this. It makes me wonder about Evan, a pulse long-term viability is like a true GC contender because it's so up and

down like that Amstel result, like that tells you the form is there. I mean that you can't fake Amstel gold and you can't fake chasing down Pagachar. And my concern with them is he's all when he's riding hard. He's always riding his it's on his terms. Like I'm chasing down so and so I'm going off the front, but then when it's time to ride at someone else's pace, like think of Lombardia where he doesn't even respond to Pagachar versus like Mateo Jorgensen, who's always responding and like he blows up, but it's like, is he learning? Like, is that good for you? Or like,

I just wonder, can you always ride at your own pace and then eventually become the best stage blows up, but it's like, is he learning? Like, is that good for you? Or like, I just wonder, can you always ride at your own pace and then eventually become the best stage racer in the world? I, that concerns me in terms of his development. The problem Ramco has is, is that Pogacar and Wingergaard exist. It's as simple as that, you know, that he's as strong as Pogacar or was that just a bad day from Pogacar? What's that? Like, would Amstel not support the theory that he's just as strong as that at Pogacar?

Well, I mean, it's not the same race. It's a one-day race. We've said it in the move, you know, Pogacar was carrying Paris-Roubaix fatigue. I mean, that's, I think, yeah, born out for sure. Yeah, that's just, I mean, yeah, that was, no, if Pogacar would have waited longer, he would have finished by himself in Amstel, but Pogacar was not a hundred percent Pogacar in Amstel gold race. Plus, hey, everybody's entitled to have a lesser, less stronger day, right?

No, I think Remco is Remco. He's I'm pretty sure he's going to be working towards great form for the tour. If you look at Remco, have a look at pictures of Remco Evenepoel of the Tour de France last year, and Remco Evenepoel now, you will see a different body. He is right now is Remco Evenepoel now, you will see a different body. He is right now is Remco Evenepoel we all know the guy who's in shape. He's skinny, but he's not ripped in the tour de France last year. Remco was ripped. He was lighter. He was, I think the three, three kilos lighter than he is now for sure. Um, I have no doubt that he can get there again. I mean, what you're describing makes complete sense.

Is it a huge disadvantage that that same logic does not seem to ever apply to Pagachar or Primos? They kind of always look the same. I don't fully get it. Like, it's like, wait till I'm in shape. It's like, I don't know, you. Like it's like, wait till I'm in shape. It's like, I don't know. You kind of look exactly the same as I, I mean, they're freakish. I think of Pagache, what you just said, like his bad day was second and him still gold

freakishly consistent versus Remco is more almost relatable. It's like, well, yeah, you're good days and you have bad days, but these top guys just don't seem to have that. I don't know. They don't really understand it. Yeah. I'm't really understand it. Yeah. I'm just going to say one more. I mean, I, yeah, now that you have me thinking, you have me thinking a lot of thoughts, but like Matthew Vanderpol, he might have bad days,

but he's so selective with his targets. We don't even see him that he's like on the lab. And then it's like, I'm ready to race. And he goes in a race and you only see him at his best versus rimco is more exposed because he's a stage racer. lab. And then it's like, I'm ready to race. And he goes in a race and you only see him at his best versus rimco's more exposed because he's a stage racer. But before we go, Johan, we got to talk about Astana XDS Astana. They get fourth overall at Romandy. But while Romandy is going on the tour of Turkey is going on. I don't expect people to have been glued to the TV watching the tour of Turkey.

Off the top of my head. I forgot to pull this up off the top of my head. I, I forgot to pull this up off the top of my head. I'm going to say that, what did they win four stages in the overall and second in the overall four stages, first and second in the overall. Um, okay. It's the tour of Turkey, right? So the, the competition was not, uh, super strong. They had wild pools. And this other guy was the other guy's name. Martin Lopez. Yeah. So he won a stage in second. I mean, this is their strategy for the whole season already. The points, you know, let's not forget today. Today they got also third in the time trial in Romandy.

They got fourth in GC, I guess. So also points plus there was a race in Belgium in the Ardennes, but it was a sprint of like 40, 50 guys. They are first and second. Today, just today, they gained close to 1000 points. It's insane. It's clear that they are on a path towards fighting for their to preserve their world tour status. And they're doing quite well. They mean, initially, at the

beginning of the season, I would have said, okay, there's no way they had a 5,000 points deficit. Right now they are up to, they've come close to a picnic. What was it? Picnic post-NL, right? Yeah. If that says it all, you don't even know the name of the team, right? Yeah. Yeah.

That's the team in danger now. They're only 160 points ahead anymore. So that's like a 4,800 point gained. And then they were also 5,000 points behind Kofidis. And they're up to 600 points now. And we were only four months into the season. So it's clear that first of all, they have guys who are on form and especially they are selecting the calendar to perfection to score the most points possible with the roster they have. I've been told that they have hired one or two specialists who have, based on statistics and AI, have designed a calendar to gain the most points.

And it looks like they're on a good path to preserving their world tour spot. And I think they need it because I've been told, it's not confirmed, it's a room, I mean, more than a rumor that actually the contract they have signed that Vinokarov has signed with XDS is actually dependent on keeping their world tour place. So I think it's a multi-year deal, but there is a clause in there that XDS would have the possibility to terminate the contract if they don't remain in the world tour. And that's why I know that certain people in the team have been promised multi-year deals. And finally, they only got a one-year deal because there's that threat that XDS could probably potentially

withdraw their support. I don't know if they would do it or not, but that's a possibility. So they're doing a good job, man. They're, they woke up very late, but they're wide awake and they keep awake. They keep being awake and they keep gaining points. The day was amazing. Amazing. Unbelievable. Almost a thousand points in a day to put that into context. Like EF education or EF easy post has like 3,700 points in the season and that they're not doing poorly. Like they're mid table world tour team and XC Sistana got almost a third of that point total in a single day. Unbelievable. I thought it was impossible. I thought no way can they retain the spot because you say they were 5,000 points buying

co-fitties. They scored about 5,000 points last year. So they're in golf to the safe place was what they scored last year. They're going to have to at least double what they scored last year. They're on pace to do more than that. And maybe this one year, maybe these one year contracts like that, that could light a fire under your, your behind. If it's like, well, I wanted a multi-year deal. I have to,

we have to finish in the world tour to do so clearly the vibes are good. Things are clicking. But what's really impressed me is like, you know, they were gaming the system. They were like showing up to every race and they were getting like third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, they weren't even racing for first. getting like third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh. They weren't even racing for first. It's like, well, okay. Is that sustainable?

In the past, like week and a half, it's like, they're no longer gaming the system. They're just winning. It's like, let's just go to these races and win. Like, you know, they get for first and second at tour of Turkey, they get like 350 UCI points. I, if, but here's, here's the thing I don't, I'm just shocked by picnic posts and hell doing terribly like cofidies. They have a nice, you know, cup, French cup schedule. They could, they could score some points. I wouldn't be that confident. I wouldn't be that confident. I saw an interview of Cedric

Vassar a while ago on a French Euro sport and they were questioning him. Yeah, you know, are you, you know, are you not worried, you know, Astana's coming or XDS Astana coming there, you know, the 2000, 2000 points. And, and, and Vasseur said that 2000 points is plenty. I wonder if he thinks the same after today. Yeah. By the time you finished that sentence, I would have agreed with him by the way. By the time you finished that sentence, it's cut down by a thousand. I mean, that is freaky stuff. If you're, you know, we have to, we have to, we have to give it to Vinokarov. No, I think I in one of the, like last year or a few years ago, I, I don't know if it's in a podcast or an interview. I said, you know, Vinokarov is the survivor, the ultimate survivor. He has more lives than a cat. A cat has nine lives, or at least that's

what we say in Europe. Vinokarov has 10 or 11. He has more lives than a cat. It's unbelievable, this guy. He just keeps coming back and yeah, I mean, like great job. Great job to me. They're not there yet, but it looks like they're going to get there. Plus, also Spencer with the season they are doing, they don't really have to worry for next year because if they don't get the World Tour spot, they're going to be for sure first in the pro team ranking and they get automatic invites to all the world to races anyway. So they're, they're kind of doing okay. Yes. Yes. Um, a couple thoughts on that. So the first one is you mentioned this AI system they have to gain points. This is the thing that confuses me the most because pick-dink personnel is in

dire, dire straits because they're doing so poorly. They will not even, there's talk of, you know, it was the first two pro teams from the year prior would be auto invited every grand tour. There's talk of that being expanded to three. Let's even, let's say that happens. They're like going to be like fifth, so they won't get an auto invite. They probably won't get wild card invites because they're not based in a country of the grand tour. And I mean, am I on a line for saying it might, they might not be busting out the expense accounts like they need to when they, they're not whining and dining the right people to

get those, you know, how, how does tutor suddenly end up at the Azure to tie? I don't know who the right people get some tutor watches perhaps, but look, look who the sponsor of the official timekeeper is in a lot of races. It's tutor all over. Right. Right. Nice big checks to be that timekeeper. And I'm sure the selection committee for the race takes that into account.

But so they're not, they're not going to get invited to many races. It's bad if they get relegated, but you look at their schedule, it's almost all world tour races. So they've not gone out of their way to score more points. You go look at Astana's remaining schedule. I had to scroll for a minute to get to the bottom of the schedule because they're doing seemingly every race that has world tour points on offer. Pretty smart, but ultimately simple strategy.

I mean, it's hard. It takes a lot of planning though, right? Logistics planning, maybe picnic post and L didn't anticipate being in the spot. And then now is it just too hard to change strategy halfway through the season? You can still, you can still change your schedule. I mean, you can, I mean, obviously the world two races, you have to do them. But then there's other races. I mean, we've seen it in the past with, I guess it was Movistar at some point, they

changed a bunch of things in the second part of the season because they were feeling the threat of losing their license. And then they went to China and do all these races in Asia. Finally it didn't, it turned out not to be necessary, but I think, I think Picnic Post and LL, they will do the same thing in the second part of the season. They'll change their schedule. Yeah.

I guess the winning the races part is also half, that's half the battle. Yeah. Other than, you know, it's like the performance has been, what do you attribute that to? Was that the performance at the races that they're participating in? Okay. I listen, I don't know. They may have had bad luck. They had a, they had a young guy there who broke his collarbone twice. I don't know if Max pool or something, I think only hasn't been performing. Degenkolb is out also, I think.

I know that he's going to score a lot of points at this point of his career, but, um, so they may have had a lot of bad luck, but, uh, I just don't see they have the talent to, to, to correct the situation the way it's going right now. Do you know what their last win existential because I don't know if it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, Wow. Yeah. Wow. I'm just almost speechless looking at their results.

Um, but yeah, it's, it's dire. It's existential because I don't know what happens to them. Everybody was talking about COVID is being in problems. Now it's, uh, I think it's, it's, it's picnic post and hell and Arkea, Arkea is going to be out. Right. Uh, but then we also have, uh, let's not forget, there's also another team. I mean, this and we're only, we're only four months into the season. We do have another team who may be a threat to, to Kofidis and that's UNOX. You know, UNOX is there, Okay. There's still, um, 2000 points behind coffee this, but, um, if I'm coffee this man, I would not be, uh, too relaxed about it.

They have good writers, you know, X and they can score a lot. They that's a team that can score a lot of points in those secondary races. I mean, they are almost perfectly designed to score a lot of points. Imagine if that happens. If Kofidis and Arkea lose their license, then we're going to have another problem with the wild cards for the tour. Well, Arkea might not be around. Yeah, going to disappear.

But if Kofidis loses their license, then we're back to the same point, you know, because they already added another, another wild card for next year. So what are we going to do? Change the, change the rule again and get four. Well, as I understood it, that wild card is getting taken away because it's three wild cards this year. I think next year, the plan, as I understood it, was to have the same number of teams, but one of those wild cards becomes, becomes an auto selection. Oh, okay. And it's back to two wild cards. Of course,

you could always try to finish in the top three and then it's not a problem. I mean, so co-fidus would be, would they just be safe anyway though? Cause they're French or who would, Oh yeah. If co-, if COVID is loses their license, the world tour license, there is no way they're getting snubbed from the tour. Confidus is an institution in France. They've been, I mean, look how long they've been around like 30 years, even more 30, 30, more than 30 years. Um, yeah, no, confidence. If confidence loses their license,

they're getting an invite for the tour. Even if they don't classify in the first two or three, they're getting, they're getting there. That's what they're getting. An invite. No, there's no other way. What was their last tour GC result? Like what's their last tour? Um, top three, is it Bobby? Yeah, Bobby Tulick probably. Yeah. 1998. Wow. Yeah. I mean,

I mean, did you have Martin do like a top 10 at some point in, I don't know, like six, nine or 10th or something, I guess. That sounds about right. I mean, I don't, I don't want to sound overly negative about Cofidis, but you, when you compare them, I'm just looking at UNOX. I'm looking at their roster right now. It's, it's not, it's going to be a little scary actually. Like these teams are so these new, this new breed of second division team is so professional and so good.

Like it is going to make it a life a lot more complicated for world tour teams that don't have everything buttoned up. But do you have anything else to add? Johan, before we take off? I think we covered a lot. We did. And then we were doing this today on Sunday, even though I had a rush back from a birthday party because we got to start focusing on the Giro d'Italia next week. We're going to have a preview out on Wednesday, preview pod. And then it starts on Friday, which is a little disorienting, but we'll be shifting into Giro

d'Italia mode full time. Yeah. Daily show. It's around the corner. Yeah. Every day, every day will be present. Looking forward to it. I am as well.

But thank you for joining us and we will talk on Wednesday. Okay, Spencer. Thanks. All right. Bye. I am as well. But thank you for joining us and we will talk on Wednesday. Okay, Spencer. Thanks. Alright, bye.