THEMOVE - Was That the Best Climbing Performance of All-Time? | TdF 2026 Stage 19 | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: July 24, 2026

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin discuss Tadej Pogačar stamping his authority on the 2026 Tour with a historic stage win atop Alpe d'Huez, where it leaves the GC, and Mads Pedersen's ride to get into the breakaway to seal Green. They also debate where Remco Evenepoel goes from here, whether Pogačar's ride was the best-ever climbing performance, and preview tomorrow's brutal Stage 20 and give their picks for the stage win. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Gusto: Try Gusto today at https://gusto.com/themove, and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at https://gusto.com/themove Lagoon: Use code MOVE for 15% off at https://LagoonSleep.com/THEMOVE Blueprint: Science-backed, precision-dosed, no BS. For a limited time only, our listeners get 20% off + free shipping at https://blueprint.bryanjohnson.com by using code THEMOVE at checkout. That's code THEMOVE at https://blueprint.bryanjohnson.com for 20% off.  After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support our show and tell them our show sent you. Nextbets: Use our special link to see where you can bet in your area and claim the best sign-up offers https://nxtbets.com/betoutcomes/ Ventum: Use code TheMove10 for 10% off anything at: https://ventumracing.com/

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It's an upgrade you see immediately and appreciate every single day. There's a showroom in your area where you can get underdublishings. Ready to get started, visit night and day decor.com or call 1-647-692-8602. That's night and day decor.com. This was unbelievable. It was amazing to see when he left so early with a little under 12K to go, I think. He went from the seat, didn't stand up, didn't attack. It just accelerated from the saddle and just rode up up the west.

I think he stood up like two or three times when he was doing these attacks. Otherwise, he did not stand up. He was just always in the saddle. Yeah, it was really the perfect climb. everybody welcome back to the move plus i'm spencer martin i'm here with joan bernile we're breaking down stage 19 of the tour de france finishing the first of two finishes up alp duez this one up the famous 21 switchbacks with tady pagacha winning with a record time record ascent smashing the old record by over a minute i did not see that coming super impressive lindy martina's second from the breakaway

richard carapas third just a few seconds behind sepcus fourth sepcus fourth and then the first rider of The GC group is Remko, Ebeneppol, 229 back in sixth place. Really good ride with Isaac D'Oro's 7th, 241 back, coming in four seconds ahead of Paul Sixthauce. So that GC battle for the final podium spot and white jersey still raging with less than 30 seconds separating those riders. Pretty interesting little battle there. We'll also preview stage 20. But Johan, I'm sure the day started pretty formulaic. Break gets away early.

break builds up gap in the valley break has eF pulling as hard as they can to extend richard carapaz's gap so he can try to win the stage it almost works you got lennie martine is in the mix there but ua you was stronger than we thought they had some riders to keep the gap under control and then of course other gc teams came forward to protect their own interest with lennie martina shooting up the gc leaderboard and richard carapaz as well with getting you know getting in the break and getting the gap but yohan what was your major takeaway of the stage? Well, Spencer, you know, leaving, leaving aside the unbelievable performance of Pugachar,

I think the beginning of the stage, we were all curious to see what was going to happen. You know, there were certain rumors about illness within UAE, UAE as a team being weakened, which we have seen the last few stages. And the day was actually a stage where they would be put to the test. and it was clear that from the beginning, you know, the race started basically on a climb, was straightaway uphill. And you can't say that it was a breakaway, Spencer.

It was 43 riders. So whoever had the legs and wanted to be in the break was in there. It's as simple as that. And so, yeah, I mean, I was curious to see what was going to happen with UAE, but they managed really, really well the situation. I think after the first climb, they were only one guy missing. I mean, of course, McNulty had to abandon yesterday,

but they were only one guy missing. I think it was Tim Wellens or Florian Vermears. I don't remember one of those two, but then one of them came back. So that big group of 43 riders went clear, got three, four minutes, but there was only a few riders actually riding there. It was basically a EF.

And at the beginning little track. And then one guy of Bahrain, I think, right? Was it Tiberi, I think we did a lot of work? Because Lenny Martinez was in there. Was Jordan Jagat in there also? No, I don't think he was. I don't think so. I think he's buckling in for 10th place.

He's not messing around anymore. Yeah, so UAE, it was clear that, you know, they were in a decent situation. I think they felt okay with the situation. They could manage the first group. And then, of course, as we expected and predicted yesterday, there were some guys in the front that were a threat for the top. I mean, they were already in GC, but they were threatening other GC positions in top 10. We saw, what was it?

Was it Q36.5 coming? It was a little track was, no, no, little, no, little, no, little track was later. There was another team. I don't remember, oh, was it, was it total energies for Jagat or something? Anyway, there was help from other teams. So, basically, UAE, they did use their guys. They used Vermeerche and they used Polit. But they didn't have to use Groschartner until later on, on the,

the climb before the up the west. And so by then, it was clear that there was going to be a chance for the stage win also, although it was not sure. I think they started up the west with three minutes 10 behind the breakaway. At some point, I thought that the winner of the stage would come from the breakaway, especially Carapas, because Carapas was amazing what he's doing, got a pass after his you know he's tried so many times yesterday did an unbelievable ride spend a lot won the stage and today he was in there again sprinting for the k-o-m plus you know having having

ambitious to win the stage and uh he almost got it right yeah yeah i mean did they make a mistake though johan should carapaz i know that lennie martinas bothers a lot of riders and they don't like me in a break with them Should Carapaz not been attacking at all on that final climb? Would he have been better off if they just struck a hud truce? I think so. But with Lenny Martinez, it's difficult because that's Lenny Martinez's style of racing. I know for a fact that he's not very well liked in the peloton because of his style of racing.

It's his choice. It's his right to do that. I mean, he's a smart rider. He's not a very popular rider. And I think Lenny Martinez. Venus wanted both, right? He comes. He gets in the top five. I mean, he didn't know that while he was going up up the West because it was going to depend on where Ayuso was going to finish, I think. But he went from seven to fifth today. He's in the top five overall, which does, yeah, does suggest he should have been working harder because he had the most to game. That should have been a big goal for him. So he wanted to do that plus win the stage. And then,

really upset Carapas, right? And so Carapas started to attack. And after two or three times that Lenny Martinez was able to get him back, then that was basically the key to Taday Pogacar's victory. If they would have ridden steadily, Bogacha probably wouldn't have caught them. Or he could have caught them, but already on a more flatter, flatter part, where maybe they could have hung up with him.

Yeah. Yeah, kind of interesting to think about. I mean, or if they're further ahead, does he just go faster to catch them? I don't know. But it does seem like they wrote it in the most inefficient way possible with Pagachar coming up behind them. There was a lot of stopping and going. You know, I mean, I think Seppikus had to ride the way he was riding, but it was pretty clear that Seppkuz was not as strong as Karapas. you know he he got dropped and every time he could come back because then carapasa and lennie martinez

were looking at each other but that's also a good way to ride up up the west you know you could eventually win like that but yeah today was not the day favacha was uh yeah no but this was unbelievable it was i mean amazing to see uh when he left so early with a little under 12k to go i think he went from the seat didn't stand up, didn't attack, it just accelerated from the saddle and just rode up up the west. I think he stood up like two or three times when he was doing these attacks. Otherwise, he did not stand up. He was just always in the seat, in the saddle.

Yeah, it was really the perfect climb because he wait. They go in fast. He lets them other people lead. As soon as the pace goes down, it was like he was on a training ride. Right. He didn't stand up. There was no dramatic attack. He just lifts the pace, but he never really panicked. You know, even when he catches Adam Yates, he's like, okay, Adam Yates is going to work for 2K, probably a plan they had. He leaves him. He's not thinking, I got to go faster, faster, faster. He's just paced it perfectly. And even when, you know, stuff was getting crazy there. When he's getting close, Carapaz attacks, it looks like, oh, no, is he not going to catch these guys in time.

It didn't panic at all. Lenny Martinez is on his wheel. He doesn't panic. He knows. just has to get to that final little ramp before they get to the finishing straight. And he drops them there. It was the poise of the performance was really impressive. Yeah. Well, that's probably the way it looks to us, Spencer. You know, like we say, oh, you know, okay, it's fine. He's, he has everything under control.

I can tell you that's not, that's not how he felt. That's not how he felt. It may look like it's, you know, I mean, it was a beautiful effort. You know, he looked like he looked perfect on the bike, super cadence. amazing. But man, let me tell you, these guys are hurting, like really hurting. That was a full, full, full out effort from, from Polachar. And by the way, I mean, amazing to see Adam Yeats turn it around like this.

I mean, two days ago, this guy was dead, like dead. The stage after the stage after the time. Yeah, you can barely ride. Yeah. I mean, the fact that he was already in the breakaway was a, good sign. I think that was probably something that they wanted to, you know, do on purpose. So he could get a head start in case it really got out of control on the second climb because the second climb, what was the name again, called Unway. That was a really hard climb. It was like

7K, 8, 8 and a half, 9%. That was a hard climb. But Spencer, before we keep talking about Pogacchar and the final development of the stage, what about? What about? about this unbelievable strong guy, Matt Patterson. Yeah. I mean, unbelievable. For him to make it in that group over those first two climbs. I mean, that second climb, man, he's not supposed to be there.

He is not supposed to be there. And he's there. I mean, we were talking about Pagaccha, not having any teammates or having one teammate after that climb. And that climb is, I'm here, I'm trying to get the stats. It's 7.3K at 8.4%, Johan. Yeah. That's really steep.

That's hard for a climber. Yeah, it's crazy. And then on top of that, on top of that, before I don't remember which team came to the front. One team came to the front at the end of that climb, but the majority of that one climb called Unoye was actually Derek G setting the pace for Matt's Peterson on that climb. So he was not just trying to hang on.

Derek G. was setting the pace, which is Matt's Petterson's, whatever, threshold or whatever. Yeah. And until a kilometer and a half from the top, Matt Peterson was in second position on that line, which I mean just blows my mind how he fought back after, you know, a super disappointment two days ago where he, you know,

kind of there was, the green jersey was starting to be in doubt. Yesterday he made a really good step by taking those 25 points. But today, I think he sealed it, right? I mean, it's still, I mean, yeah, I think there's because in the stage in Paris is, it's not a, it's not a like a sprint stage points wise. I think it's 50 points or 40 points. I don't remember. Yeah, it's 50 points. I thought it was 70, but it's 50. Well, anyways, it doesn't really matter because if, if it would, if it will be a sprint, then it should be Philipson.

I don't know if you can make it, but Peterson will be there too. It's not like Philipson will score all the points and Petterson won't score any points. Yeah. Same goes with the intermediate sprint, by the way. Yeah. And even, I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if he's in the move tomorrow. It picks up more points. Three straight days in the breakaway.

When is the sprint tomorrow? It's pretty hard. So it's, well, it's doable. So it's after the Kold de la Quaffaire. So basically the stage starts at the base of the, the qua fare and they descend down and the sprint's there. So he could get it. After the crowd affair.

Yeah. No, I don't think so. It's only 5.2% for Matt Patterson. He's not going to notice. No, don't look. Don't look at that way. It's much harder than you think. The crowd affair from that side, first, first they climb the glendon, but the glendon is part

of the crowd affair. It's one side of the glendon. If you look at the profile, called the glendon, it's pretty, it's pretty, it's pretty, hard climb. Is that where, uh, did Jonas drop pagacha on that? Do you remember? No, that's the grano. That's the gran. Oh, okay. No, this is called glando. It's a hard climb. Uh, and so there's a, there's a few little downhills and then you go to the, the last part brings you to the top of the Grasifair. Yeah, it's like a Franken climb. It looks all weird. It's a hard. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard and it's high altitude also. It's over 2,000 meters, right? The Gras affair. It is over 2,000 meters. And

Americans might be listening to that saying, wow. Bobby, Bobby, see Bobby saying that's not that high. I brush my teeth at 2,000 meters every day. These valleys are low, like low, like sea level low. So to get to 2,000 meters is a lot of climbing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not all that. Yeah.

Crot affair is a monster of a climb. That's right. You know, the tomorrow's climbs are all like super hard, real Alp climbs, you know, the crowd affair, the telegraph, the gallibular. is super hard. And then, you know, Goldes Sardin, which is basically a backside of Obde West.

And it's just a big, it's like a, like a massive and there's a big loop, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's not like these two climbs in the beginning of today's stage. So I think that's going to be more difficult.

But, I mean, I think he can be in it. I think he can be in it. He doesn't need to be in it. But if he's in it, is it worth the effort is it worth the effort is within oh yeah it's a good question saves himself and and you know has something left for paris you know that's probably the problem joan just right

there you did you did a logical thinking about effort that's not mad's peterson's way he just not this guy's not afraid of anything it's un like i don't think people quite realize you think oh lance armstrong must sit around to be an awe of fagachar the the person everyone in the studio is most and of is Mads Pedersen. Because what he's doing almost defies comprehension. It is unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. And just there's no, there's no calculation to his rides.

It's just I like mad C, mad smash. Like I don't care. I'm not living for tomorrow. I'm just getting through the day. It's and then also inspiring stuff. Spencer, even today, I mean like, so first he's in that break, takes those 25 points and then gets back and then starts to pace the pedal. to the bottom of up the west. I mean, like, how valuable can a rider be, you know? I know.

I know. It's wild. What did you think about all this pacing from non-UAE teams? Some people were frustrated by it, but it kind of makes sense if you start to game it out. You can't avoid that, Spencer. You can't avoid that. I mean, there's so many teams who have nothing. Yes, they have one stage.

They don't have a jersey. And they're going to fight for seventh, eight, ninth or tenth place. that's all they have left. And, you know, all these riders, except the guy who is there in seventh or eight or nine, all these other guys, that's just the only thing they can do for their team that's left to do. So they're going to do it. And that's you, that's not, I mean, that's as a team who has the leaders jersey, you can't play with that.

And it comes to you automatically, these, these kind of assistance from other teams without, you know, even asking for it. The worst, it's very hard to win a state. It's always been hard to win a stage at the tour, I assume. It's never been harder. Do you know the worst rider in terms of UCI rankings to win a stage at this race? It's Soren, Varenschild.

I think he was ranked 63rd. It's not even that low. Yeah. There's only two riders out of the top 50. It's Tim Merlier and Varenschild. Or sorry, Schmidt and Varenchkold. And Schmid's a really good rider.

So, yeah, you're right. Like if there's fewer chances. to win stages, you've got to fight like hell for 9th, 10th, 8th place. These are big places that you have to defend. So that's why you get that kind of funky polling. Let's take a quick break. And then we'll talk about some stats, some crazy stats in the climb, some stuff that obviously Pagot Char, but then there's other riders that rode shockingly well.

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I think we said this up top. The old record. Before we talk about numbers, Spencer, just one last thing, you know, so. So, you know, we heard these, you know, we saw these pictures and I saw a lot of commentators on TV also and analysts talking about, you know, could there be something wrong with Pogacchar because he had yesterday. today and today he was riding in the black shorts. Well, we got our answer today.

You have no idea. I got so many messages from friends and family that do not follow cycling about this. This is like spread like wow. I guess it is kind of an interesting story. If you're just living your life. It's it's because it's so magnified everything in the tour. But you know, so I saw a close up of, of, of, of, of, of, a of, of, of, a, of, of, of, a of, of, of a, of, of a of, of, of a of, of a of, of yesterday riding in.

So it's actually. It's an ASO provided skin suit. So it's Sampini. So they ride with a brand called Pse. And so Jim and Del Toro ride with the same skin suit. And it's a different fabric. It's a mesh. And apparently this different fabric, ASO has made only with black shorts and not with

yellow shorts. That's the only reason behind it. There's nothing going on at all. It's so, it's fascinating to watch how people will. The conspiracy theories are flying high, you know? Even on our own set, there was many conspiracy theories. They say in communications and the lack of information, people create their own stories. And this was a great example.

Do you know Operation Ments meet, Johan, where the allies were trying to invade Europe during the Nazi occupation. So they dropped a dead body off the coast of, it was either Spain or Sicily with fake plans for an invasion, to throw the Nazis off the scent. That kind of was like this. Like was this a big trick to get everyone thinking he had the poops and he couldn't perform well because he seemed to be pretty good today. You know, I mean, I would have said, for example, you know, you have to, you know, once I saw it was a skin suit. Yeah, that's not practical.

If he would have been riding shorts and a separate jersey, you can say maybe, you know, maybe it's not usual in him. there's something going on, but if it's a skin suit. No. No. No, not at all because they hit Alpdouaz after a fast day of racing. Like almost no, there'd be no place to attack. People are complaining there's no attacks. Where are you going to attack because you're going so fast into this climb?

He takes off, doesn't panic. The old record is harder to track the stuff down than you'd want it to be. Apparently, Marco Pantani, 36 minutes, 50 seconds in 1995. Pagotcha goes 35 minutes, 26 seconds. So quite a bit faster, well over a minute faster. My calculations, and there's some other calculations, is a great website that tabulates every climbing performance like that ever happens. And we both have them at 7 watts per kilo for a little over 35 minutes at his current weight. That's about 445, basically 450 to 450 to 450 to 45 watts for 35.

minutes at 64 kilos. So that's not only the best performance on Alpdouez, maybe one of the best climbing performances of all time. It's hard to think of. I think it's probably the best climbing performance of all time, Spencer. I mean, you know, I saw the van was 1900, close to 1900, 1890 or something. Yeah, the Strava segment is a little higher than the official segment because it goes, it stops at the top of the hill.

It's 1937. VAM is also, you know, relative. It depends, you know, if it's a really steeper, steeper climb. And it's more constantly, it's going to be easier to do a higher VAM. Up the west, it's steep and it's hard. But, you know, you have the flat turns where, you know, you can increase the speed. But obviously, there's less elevation in the turns. And then also the last two and a half K are not as steep anymore.

but I think it's close up there with the best I mean what would be the best climate performance ever other than today I would have thought it was probably Pentani on Alp Duaz right well was it not was it not Plateau the Bay from two years ago I don't know if that was as good as Pentonis here I'll just look through here plateau to Bay I have him at 8187 VAM 6 points I mean that is is like 6.9 watts per kilo for almost the same almost the same basically especially it's five minutes longer 39 50 longer okay okay yeah so the fact that he was doing similar watts for five minutes more actually maybe maybe plato de bay was better maybe this wasn't a great performance we don't know i mean there's also many different factors that go into this what if there was a little bit of a headwind that's that's going to count against you you're not going to credit for that with our calculations So we wouldn't know for sure unless we saw his power meter. And even then, sometimes you don't know because the power meter is not that great.

But yeah, Plata de Bay probably would be up there. I mean, can you think of any like what about Contador-Virere? Like, what was his watch for that? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. That was a good performance.

Yeah. That was a good performance too. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But this was so good that. So Remko Evanapult finishes. Remko, a great ride, by the way. finishes 2.29 back.

It's funny that he finishes 229 back. And we're saying, amazing ride. Definitely the second fastest on the day because the guys he caught were over three minutes in front of them and then finish a few minutes behind him. So Remko is the second fastest time in the day. 3805. And you said this was the seventh fastest time of all time, correct? Yes. Yes.

Faster than Lance Armstrong's famous attack from the bottom time, right? Yeah, so the first, so today, today Bogacha is the best, 2006. Then it's second, third, and fourth best is Marco Pantani, Marco Pantani, Marco Pantani, three different times. Then fifth is Lance in 2004, the time trial. So just, you know, just from the bottom. Then sixth is Jan Ulrich in 1997, when Pantani won also, which is the year, Ulrich won the tour and then seventh is Remko

eight is Lance again in 2001 and ninth 10th and 11th is Isaac del Toro Matias Kilmoza and Paul Seixas so these guys are going fast man Miguel de Rhein is now in 12th in 12th place yeah crazy man yeah here even I thought maybe Maybe Yonelric, Indora, remember Endora, 1997?

I was like, maybe that was a better. But even that was 447 watts, so 6.8 watts per kilo. So this was even better than that. And that was one of the best climbs I've ever seen. Pagacha is good. What did we learn today? Pagacha is good, great. Perhaps the best.

Ramco is very solid. Second best rider at this race. Confirming that he's finishing really strong. His team is good. You know, they had numbers still at the bottom of Abdu, West. And, you know, he's getting confidence. I mean, he's, he was trying to ride away from the Toro and success.

And he did. And he didn't need to, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So now tomorrow's, you know, the big test, of course, for Remko, because it's the long, high mountains. But I'm, I think he's going to stay where he is. Yeah.

He looks solid. I would be shocked. I was thinking about this. I was like, is he going to crack on the quafer and then implode? But with how good he rode on Alp-Douez, I just don't see him. No, especially the last few stages, Spencer, since Plateau de Salisson, it's a different rider, you know. It's completely shocking considering. Yeah, change his mentality, changed his mindset, changed his confidence.

I heard an interview with Belgian TV after the stage. you know, he feels good. You know, he started really conservatively, and he went because he started to feel good. He said, you know, when I don't remember which team was Decathlon, I think, was pulling. And he said, I was really easy there. I was really having, it was easy for me when Deccatlan was pulling.

So. And I mean, it's shocking because he was getting dropped in the Alsace in the Nassi Centrel. I was like, what the heck happened? Like, how, whatever. He said he planned this to be the best at this point in the race. Clearly, it's worked so far. Yeah, for sure.

No, listen, hats off to him and to the team to, you know, have made this decision and adapted his, you know, racing schedule and work towards being in top shape in the last week of the tour. Amazing. Let's say this, let's say he holds second. He gets second at this race. Where does this leave him leaving the tour? Like, what's his next target for G.C?

I think, I think trying to win another ground tour, trying to win Giro or Vuelta, knowing that, knowing that as long as Pugacha wants to go for it, he's not going to win it. And then we also need to take it to account. Okay, you know, for sure. I mean, incredible performance of Remko, but let's not forget that Jonas is out of the race also. Well, that was my next question. If Jonas was still here, would Remko be second? I'm not sure, man.

I mean, I think he had a chance. I think Jonas was, unless he also improved for the last week. But I think Jonas looked like he was, I mean, he was there. He was the second best. But he looked like he was on the limit every single time that he had to go for it. I'm not, yeah, I think Remko probably would still be second. which brings up an interesting question of, let's say, you know, what do any of these guys do next year?

So, Yonis probably doesn't do the Gero again. So then RIMCO probably should do the Gero to try to win the Gero. Because I don't know. Knowing the Gero, knowing the Gero, I think the Gero will probably adapt the course and put like a long time trial in there. 300K long time trial. For him to go to the Gero. Yeah.

And then you win that. I mean, I think he could be the second best stage racer in the sport if he comes out of this year. Well, you have changed your mind very quickly on Ramco. Well, tomorrow we'll answer all the quick. If he can survive tomorrow, he can do anything. I don't know how many times you have said that he was a bad climber. He was a bad climber because he was bad at climbing. Spencer, that's not true.

That's not true. He was never. I mean, he was, he was irregular. He was inconsistent. He was unable to climb at the level needed to finish on the podium of stage races for many years, for multiple years. Spencer, this is 2006. 2004, Ramco even approved was third in the Tour de France. I know.

And then it's only two years ago. I don't think he podium to stage race between then and now. How is that even possible? I mean, clearly it's all between the years, mostly with him, right? I mean, obviously he's a huge engine. I think the weight is definitely a big factor, the fact that he's so lean now. And also, you know, the way he goes up the climbs

by riding his own tempo is very efficient. You know, I only see him respond once during the whole tour de France to accelerations on the climbs. And it's when he won on Plateau de Salle. That's the only time he responded to an acceleration. Yeah. Where he gets into trouble with that, though, is if he's too heavy and then on the cold of the qua fere, if he can't match the pace, you can't lose the wheel on the first HC climb

of a three HC climb day. So that's where he was getting trouble at times in the past. Like last year when he got dropped first climb at the day, you know, like that's not. But still, you know, I mean, we all talk about his weight, you know, and so apparently he said, you know, he said that he was four kilos lighter than his close to four kilos lighter than his weight in the spring. But he's only one kilo lighter than he has ever been the lightest. Yeah.

You know, which was probably in 2004 in the Tour de France, but he was also super light. And he was super consistent. So clearly he can be consistent when he puts his mind to it because he's won a grand tour and finished third of the tour. And probably will finish second. But this brings us to the most interesting race we have left. So Isaac del Toro.

I thought there would be bigger gaps. between these guys. But Del Toro, he does take four seconds. So he's trending. He's actually trending up, but people view him as trending down. Del Toro is 942 behind Pagachar. That's a huge gap, by the way. Paul Sixthaus, 10.06 behind Pagachar.

So they are right there next to each other. What do you think is going to happen the rest of this race with these two guys? Who finishes third? I think that race is not over yet, Spencer. I would say advantage, advantage del Toro. But because every time there's been a last minute, like on an uphill finish, I think Del Toro has actually finished in front of Sexas, I think. They're not mistaken.

But today, for example, again, it was Sexas who has done the most of the work in that little group behind. And Del Toro has been sitting on the wheel and he has, I mean, of course, first of all, you have to be able to sit there, right? There was only three or four riders left, so you have to be incredibly good. I would say advantage del Toro, because he's not the one who has to attack. He can be just supervising

and Seixas needs to crack Del Toro. But on tomorrow stage, you know, it's a high altitude stage, right? I mean, it's actually the first, the only stage that we really go to the high altitude mountains. I know. I think Abdu, S is the highest one we've done so far.

It's actually not true. So we've had before tomorrow, we've had a 1.6. We had the Turmalet. Yeah, we've only had 1.6 kilometers over 2,000 meters. And that was all in the Tourmalet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then tomorrow we have 18 kilometers over 2,000 meters.

Tomorrow is a different beast. Tomorrow is a different beast. So I think that race is not over yet. I mean, it's not just for the podium. It's also for the white jersey, which is the same battle, right? Yeah. Yeah. Whoever finishes on the podium will have the white jersey.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that's going to be an interesting, an interesting race. I'd say advantage del Toro, but Seixas is still there. And anyways, whatever. If he's on third or fourth, amazing performance of still 19-year-olds. for sex us.

That's crazy to think that, you know, we all had our doubts and, you know, saying, ah, you know, he shouldn't go to the tour. It's too early. Yeah, well, he's there and he's not going to crack and he's going to be either third or fourth in the Tour de France in his first ever tour de France. And so, yeah, I mean, France can be hopeful. They have to wait for a few years, but at least until until, Tell Pogacar decides and then it depends, you know, I mean, we assume that success is going to improve.

He's going to get more experience. He's going to get stronger. So in theory, that should be the next to the France winner. I mean, I think there's more progression there than, for example, Remko can have or, and then it's going to depend on the course, of course. But, you know, as soon as Pogacar is gone, they're going to make a course for sex off. A course designer 2032 to France. Paul sex us. I don't think people understand.

There's someone in our studio today who said, oh, man, is this a bust? But I almost think that's good for him to get forth because it's just, it's just low enough down. You're like, it's quietish. It's like podium. You started to get a lot of noise. But can you explain to people? I don't think the regular person or even big fans. understand never having done a grand tour before being a teenager and finishing fourth the tour

to fronts that's yeah that's like going to the moon that is so hard to do it's crazy almost incomprehensible and also especially the way he gets to that fourth place it's not like a guy who has gotten a head start was in a breakaway got like seven eight minutes and then hangs on he's been racing whenever the racing within between the big favors was going on and he almost looks better now No special circumstances. No special circumstances at all. So yeah. And then his team also, his team is doing amazing also.

I mean, he's never been isolated. He's never been alone. There's always been two or three riders, Matthew Ricci Teletelo, by the way. Today he was in the break and then assisted him on up the west for a while. Prudhomme was really good, you know, Tish Benot was there for a long time. So, yeah, Decathlon, they've, you know, they've done their job. And they've, as far as I have been informed, they've been hiring stronger guys to assist post-exas in the future. Yeah, it is the whole thing.

The team's great. It's really mind-blowing. So he's 24 seconds behind Del Toro. Do you know how much time he lost on stage one to Del Toro in the team time trial? 30. 27 seconds. So that's the difference right there. It's the stage one team time trial. Yeah. Wow. I mean, what blows me away is he looks better right now than he did in Barcelona. And for a 19 year old not to degrade that much over the course of three weeks is. Yeah. What we're what we're watching is incredible. Um, Johan, anything else. Oh, yeah. Did we talk Pocodot? Pocod jersey one point. Carapaz is in the lead now. Dad, if we got your second at 90 points. Carapaz is 91 points. Valentin Peripanra, 84 points.

So everyone's right there. Each HC climb tomorrow has 20 points. The cat one climb, the telegraph, has 10 points. It's so who at probably whoever gets in the breakaway tomorrow or or definitely whoever gets in the breakaway and gets those climbs along the way is going to win the kid away. On the two on the two first climbs on the on the on the on the,

what's a crowd affair and telegraph and maybe even Gallibier, Carapass and Parra Panthers are going to be in the break. They're going to sprint for it. And what's the difference between first and second place? Great question. So 20 points for first, 15 for second. Oh, wow. Okay.

Yeah. So you can lose. Carapaz can lose two of those. Well, hold on. Let me get the standings up. No, he can't. can only lose one of them. Oh my lord, this is going to be tight. But then who like and then it's going to be a battle to get up the Sarenne because if Perry Poncha gets dropped early and Carapaz goes over and

he gets like third place on the final climb, then he would probably win. Probably won't be Pagachar, but maybe we should talk about this in our stage preview. Do you have anything else to talk about for today's stage? I think we've covered most of it. You know, I mean, I think the day we saw an amazing, an amazing performance. We said before, I think I said yesterday that if Pogacha wanted to break the records, he could,

he did, he didn't break it. He destroyed it. One minute, 22 seconds faster than Montani. That's, yeah, that's,

that's incredible. There was only one guy who could do it. It was him. There's nobody else who can do this. Yeah. We should also, he did this. sure the record, the more I think about it, the more I'm impressed with Marco Pentani.

Like the way he lived his life and the machine he was on, he had a lot going against him. That's a fast time considering he was probably at 19. Different times, different times, you know, but also different equipment, you know, everything was different. Oh, so slow equipment. Tadani was an amazing climber. I mean, he was, he was unbelievable. And he was, you know, iconic personality. you know, the baldhead.

You know, if you look how popular he was and still is, I mean, he's a myth, especially in Italy. And, you know, he didn't win that much, you know. He won one Gero of Italia and one tour de France. I mean, okay, it's not nothing. And in the same year, by the way. But, no, yeah, you're right. He didn't win like three zeros and three tours or, you know, like this, like, you know, Frum has won multiple tours Giro of Welta. Contador has won multiple.

Pantani's much bigger personality. Ventani has more tour stage wins, though, than Frum. And the really impressive thing about this, same thing I was talking about Kerapez. These guys, they have no sprint, no time travel ability. There's actually not, if you go through and look at stage wins, so amongst active riders, Carapaz's, there's only three riders ahead of them. If you filter out stage wins from sprints and time trials and all of grand tours. So if you figure you can't win a sprint and you can't win a time trial, it's actually

really freaking hard to win a stage at the tour de fronts. And you want eight of them. I mean, I assume eight of those. Nine. Nine. Nine. Those are just the hardest stages of every tour, right? Yeah.

And you're not even really a GC rider and you win the tour of fronts. That's like super impressive. Oh, and not only that. I mean, Patani won eight. Yeah, eight tour stages. Okay. And then eight zero stages. And we figure he cannot win any sprint or time trial.

Yeah. It's actually hard to imagine doing that. Yeah. That is crazy. Also, wild when he hear about he won the zero at 98. And he was just, he was just partying on the beach, just party on the beach. And his friend's like, hey, you want to go to the tour? You should do it.

probably a bit, that's probably a bit of a stretch. I don't know, man. He did. I remember because I was at the start of that tour. I did that tour Le France. It was my last year. And nobody was taking Pontani into account in the first part of the stage of the tour. He was sitting in the back with his team around him.

You know, whenever it was crosswind, he was in the back. And for some reason, the crosswinds never came to. you know a good end and he always came back and then we got to the mountains and he was flying do you know where he was placed after the first rest day of that tour fronts um i'm gonna guess he was like six or seven minutes down no yeah he was eight and a half minutes down 47th overall and you're right total afterthought you've not you've not seen him one time on the broadcast nobody nobody was counting on Panthani to win the tour.

He was not in great shape, but I mean, he came in good shape. And then he did that unbelievable attack on the Galli B, by the way. We were going to do tomorrow. That's where he went, when he went and he took like six or seven minutes out of Ulrich, I think.

This is why we're talking. You still talk about him because we got some interesting performances. It is funny, though, because you're right, he didn't win that much compared to other writers that we never talk about. But tomorrow's stage 20. Marco Pentani would love this stage. It is 170 kilometers with 5,400 meters of climbing. That's 18,000 feet. That's not a lot of kilometers. That's like 106 miles. And they're cramming in 18,000 vertical meters. We start on an HC climb, the cold of la qua fere, descend down. Oh, yeah,

let's do the cold of telegraph. That's 12k at 7%. And then we do the Gullabia. So 17.7.7.7. So 17.7.7. 7k at 7%. Tops out at 2,600 meters. That's very high. And then we do the Calde Sarenne, which is the back way up to Alp Tuez, 13K long at 7.2%. So almost as hard as the climb we did today. And then it's not over because there's two more climbs. There's a one kilometer climb at 7% descent down. And then they descend down under the switchbacks they did today. And they do 4K at 6%. The last four kilometers off to the day. stage are the same tomorrow. Yeah.

So they like rejoin the finish. And so that's going to be really tricky. If you want to bet on this, go to next bets, nxtebets.com slash bet outcomes. It will show you the best price for everything, where you can bet the best odds. And it's, you're going to need next bets because it's going to be an extremely,

extremely hard race to control and win and predict. And the favorite in the betty market is Tadipagachar plus 150, which with Richard Carrey. a plus 175, SEPCUS plus 800, Isaac Deltora plus 1,200, Rinko Avinapult plus 1,200, Tom Pickock plus 1,800,

Schelmo's a plus 2,500. Johan, I'm glad you're here so I can hand this off to you. How do you think this is going to play out and who's going to win? I don't really have any idea. I don't know if tomorrow Pogacar is going to really obsess about

wanting to win the stage. It's also, also not an easy stage for a breakaway to get enough time because it's so much hard climbing. Yeah. So there are going to be climbers in the front, but it's not going to be a massive group of 43 riders like today. And if there's a big group, it's going to be straightaway split all over the crowd of fare. So I think that the break will be in reach all the time. It's going to depend on it.

You know, like most of the stages, Spencer, it depends. what Pogacar wants and what UAE wants to do. And then, you know, depends also who's going to be in the breakaway. I think a break has a chance tomorrow. Break. I mean, good climber. I'm saying that because I think that Pogacar will worry more about del Toro de Valapal about myself tomorrow, I think, after today's performance.

I agree. I don't think he really wants him on the podium. He really wants him on the podium. It's like a goal. And you know what? Fair play to him. You know, I mean, it's like, okay, he's won five stages now. He's leading with seven minutes, 11 seconds.

And he knows that whatever he does to del Toro, that's an investment, an investment in the team. They have a great team atmosphere. I'm going to go for Richard Carapas tomorrow. Carapas is going to be in the breakaway. He's incredibly strong. strong and he can do this three days in a row got a pass from the break yeah so carapaz he's going to be up there yeah i think he's going to be getting k o m points he'll probably win the kom jersey hope everybody got in on that yesterday at plus 100 i'm pumped about that my concern though is carapaz is up

in that breakaway he's an eighth place overall he's going to start becoming a problem for little trek for bahrain decathlon probably not but teams are not going to like that he's up there And they're going to start polling and do they get it too close and does Pagotcha win? That would be the concern. Yeah, that's that's the right way of thinking. And then it's still going to depend if Pagata wants or not. Well, and even I, this is such. Actually, I really like the stage design because let's say they crest the final HG climb.

It's not over. You know, and it's actually pretty complicated because you have two more smaller climbs with the sense if Pagacchara has only Deltora with him, does he even go for the stage win if he's in the front group there? Or is he just, are they thinking about their G.C. positions? If you have a similar situation as today,

I think Lenny Martinez or Carapas probably win the stage because they're going to be willing to risk more than Pagachar would be. So, yeah, probably if we just think about it simply, who's strong enough to get in the break and to get over those climbs? It'd be a small group

of people. It'd be Sepkus for Carapaz or Lenny Martinez, maybe that's it from the breakaway. So Lenny Martinez won't be in the breakaway. So probably Richard Carapaz. Sepkous is a wild card. I'm going to pick just to hedge all of this. I'm going to pick tight at pagachar plus 150 accidentally wins the stage. Yo,

what happens? Crazy thought I had. Should Paul Sixthos go in the breakaway? What would you do? No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. I mean, get in the break, Paul. Nah, I mean, you know, if he's, if he goes, then Remko's going to be there and, and no, no.

I guess the problem is Del Toro would just get in the break with him. He's just, I don't be on his wheel. I don't know. It's not like, it's not like if success moves, del Toro's going to be on the wheel. Remko's going to be there. So Pogacha would be there. So it's not going to be a break, you know. It's going to be pretty interesting to watch these guys tomorrow, especially in the final 20K.

Once they crest the Koldess RN, could be. be some cagey explosive racing between Del Toro and Sixthos because if one you know, let's say Paul Sixthos can let's say he gets 15 seconds on Del Torre tomorrow and he goes into Paris and we assume Paris is not neutralized

nine second gap in Paris like they could be racing on the cobbles for the third place. It'd be fascinating stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. Well, let's do Ventum trivia so we can get to bed and get

rested up for for the stage that we're so excited about so if you want to play ventum trivia you go to ventum racing dot com slash the move answer your question and put your answer into the question i'm about to give you and if you get it right you'll be entered to win a ventum not a ventum bike five thousand dollars toward a ventum bike of your choice and get the road bike the ns one just redesigned the gs one also been recently redesigned to fit basically mountain bike tires but it's essentially like riding a road bike highly recommended So go to ventumracing.com slash the move to put your answer in. We will announce the winner on the move episode on stage 21.

You can also use the code, the move 10 to get 10% off any bike while you're on the website. Yesterday's question was which legendary Spaniard won on the summit finish from yesterday, crushing Eddie Merck's, taking eight minutes. Who was it? Luis O'Conia, 1971, did not go on to win that tour of France. Is that right, Johan? He crashed out. That's correct. The tour. He crashed out a few stages afterwards.

Eddie was basically already, you know, in a position that he was, he had lost a tour. But he attacked in one of the Pyrenees stages, was really bad weather and pushed and pressured O'Conia. O'Kanya crashed in a downhill. He got up and then he got hit by another rider. I think I told this story a few podcasts ago, actually, when we talked about or see him. Chirmerlet. Then he went on to win, I think, two years later. He won the tour in 1973, I think, which is, I think, a tour at Emirks either abandoned or didn't participate. I don't remember. I think, yeah, might have abandoned. But today's question, stage 20 crosses the

Cold Duke, Calabier, which earns what distinction in the 2026 race? I think we maybe said this earlier in the episode. But stage 20 crosses the Cold Duke, Calibier, which earns what distinction in the 26 race? If you know the answer, go to ventum racing.com slash the move to be entered to win a new Vintam bike. Anything else, Johan, before we take off? I think we've covered everything, Spencer.

All right. And then tomorrow's our last show of the tour, because we won't do one after stage 21, because we'll be too busy at the post-tour parties. We'll be socializing in Paris. be able to make it on. But we'll be back with Bobby tomorrow. We have to break down the hardest stage of the race. All right, see you on.

Okay, thanks. Bye.