THEMOVE - What Are Tadej Pogacar Uae Testing On The Roubaix Cobbles Themove

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Spencer Martin and Johan Bruyneel check in from the team camp heavy region, Spain's Costa Brava, to break down the Oscar Onley/Ineos transfer drama, discuss why UAE and Tadej Pogačar are testing equipment on the Roubaix cobbles, Remco and RedBull's plan for the Tour de France, Jonathan Milan being left off Lidl-Trek's Tour roster and check in on their annual Strava mileage challenge.  Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team OneSkin: For a limited time, try OneSkin for 15% off using code THEMOVE at https://oneskin.co/THEMOVE. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support our show and tell them we sent you. NordVPN: Get your Exclusive NordVPN deal here → https://nordvpn.com/themove It's risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee! Hollow Socks: For a limited time, Hollow Socks is having a Buy 2, Get 2 Free Sale. Head to https://Hollowsocks.com today to check it out. That's https://HollowSocks.com for up to 50% off your order. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. You can support our show and tell them we sent you. Bubs Naturals: Live Better Longer! For a limited time only, our listeners are getting 20% OFF at BUBS Naturals by using code WEDU at checkout. Just head to https://www.bubsnaturals.com and use code WEDU and you're all set. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support our show and tell them our show sent you. Hims: Start your free online visit today at https://hims.com/themove for your personalized hair loss treatment options. Results vary. Based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. Prescription products require an online consultation with a healthcare provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Mint Mobile: This year, skip breaking a sweat AND breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your 3-month Unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at https://mintmobile.com/themove. Upfront payment of $45 required (equivalent to $15/mo.) Limited-time new customer offer for the first 3 months only. Speeds may slow above 35GB on Unlimited plan. Taxes & fees extra. See MINT MOBILE for details.

That was the way it was then. You know, you raced yourself into shape. You did a lot of races where you were just not competitive, but you just were there for training. That's obviously not possible anymore today because races are such a high level. You show up at any easy early season race. And if you're not fit, you're dropped. So it doesn't matter which category of race. If it's a World Two race or a Pro race or a 1.1, whatever, you're dropped. Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus for a special in-person edition. I'm here with Johann Bernal in the Costa Blanca. Costa Blanca, yeah? We're in the midst of all the team training camps, but we are having a very special in-person episode. We're going to be running down a little bit of the news of the week, what we've seen this week.

And, of course, people are asking for it updates on the Strava challenge between Johann and I. I don't like my chances on that. This is a bit like, I think it's a 2016 tour. Roman Barde's second. He's like seven minutes back and he doesn't really have a chance. That's what I feel like. But first, let's hear from a few partners and then we'll get right into it. Everybody, this episode is brought to by One Skin.

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Please support our show by telling them we sent you. Hey, everybody, this episode is brought to by NordVPN, which has become a must have for me to keep up with all my cycling and other sports viewing as I travel around the globe. What I love most is the freedom NordVPN gives me. I can safely access my favorite streams and cycling coverage no matter where I am in the world. During major races, that's huge. Whether I'm traveling or just trying to catch a broadcast that is not available in my region, I can switch my virtual location seconds and watch exactly what I want. For example, while I'm traveling around the Costa Blanca this week with Johan, I can still keep up with my Denver Nuggets because I just switch that NordVPN to be in my LeaguePASS works back in the States. It's incredibly easy to use just one click to connect and with over 7,500 servers.

In 118 countries, I can change my virtual location effortlessly. I know people say, oh, just get a VPN. It's so easy and you think I can't be that easy. Well, with NordVPN, it is that easy. I promise you, you can do it. NORVPN is one of the fastest VPNs out there as well, so you never deal with buffering when you're streaming a big mountain stage. Plus, the account works across 10 devices and supports every major platform. If you want to try NordVPN, you can do it right now with no risk with our exclusive NordVPN 30-day deal. Go to NordvPn.com slash the move to try it out risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee. All right, Johan, it's a little funny being here because you could actually pick up quite a bit of news.

And gossip, you see people around, maybe people not around. I think the big news of the week is Oscar-on-L not being at the picnic post-in-L team training camp. He's not at another team training camp because we would have seen a picture of it. But what's going on with that? He had quotes the other day that made it seem like he's probably not coming back to that team. Yeah, well, we talked about it in the last podcast, I guess, no. But I think since then that kind of rumor is going to. getting stronger and stronger, I would say, and it's not confirmed, of course.

The fact he's not at a training camp is suspicious, in my opinion. You could say, well, you know, he just got back from a long stay in Australia. Maybe he has to recover from the travel. I don't think that's the case. I think his own declaration saying that, yeah, you know, in theory I'm with the team, but my future is still uncertain. Something along those lines, I think, is telling. At the same time, we've also gotten news.

I don't think those are rumors that the team Picnic Post-NL, their license. The new World War II licenses are three years, right? Apparently, their license is only guaranteed for one year because they cannot give for the moment any financial guarantees for 2007 and 2008. So I think personally that this Oscar-only situation is going to evolve. We don't know obviously what's happening behind the scenes, but I can see him at Ineos next year, Spencer. He's not at the training camp. That's the first sign.

Then, you know, I did a little bit of research, and we talked about some writers leaving that specific team, the team of Ivan Spakenbrink, before the end of their contract. And I have a few names here. So we know Marshall Kittle left before he went to, he went to quick step, I think. Tom Dumoulin left with a running contract. Edward Toons went to Trek with a running contract, Mark Hirschi, Michael Matthews, Warren Bargill.

I mean, these are just a few names. There's a lot more. So there is a certain tendency in that team to let a rider go. for, in my opinion, a certain, I mean, a good amount of money. And I also read somewhere else on social media that they had a big loss in 2022 and 2003. So I think it's a matter of time, honestly. This is just a gut feeling. I have absolutely no information, but I can I can perfectly see Oscar only not writing for Picnic Post and L and writing for ENAOS. And I think for him,

it makes sense. You know, I mean, he's obviously. a big talent for it in the two of the France. And if you're in a team that cannot give you the stability for the next three years, then it's normal that you look for somewhere else. And I don't know who his agent is, but he probably has a good agent. So Oscar only, in my opinion, is writing for Ineos in 2006. Well, what's his name? Luke Reff.

He's the producer at Lantern Rouge. He figures, I don't think he cited his source. so I'm like hesitant to even say the figures, but they were big losses. And it said the total budget was less than 15 million euros a year. That's like men's women's and development team. That doesn't seem like enough money. And that would probably explain the losses and that they potentially need the cash injection and to not be liable for his salary next year.

I'd assume. So it does make sense that they would sell them just for the financial need. What happened? How does that work? You get a wheelchair license for one year and then there's a, review process? Well, there's every year a review process. You know, you get a World two license initially for three years. And most of the teams right now, they have a three year plan. So they can give you a budget projection for the next three years because you need

to file all the sponsoring contracts, all the riders contracts, you know, the, the ins and outs of the money stream. You get a three year license, but every year it is, you need to revise and you need to give new bank guarantees. And here in this case, Picnic Post-N-L is not able to do that. And I think also, I think that puts them really in a weak position with regards to Oscar only, because it's a rider who was fourth in the Tour de France in 2025. We're going into 2006. But after such a big performance, normally you would renegotiate your contract for the next two or three.

years. And obviously, speaking, speaking blank is not in a position to do that. So I think he's going to choose the money, Spake and bring and try to sell him to NEOS if it's not done yet. I mean, we'll see what happens. Do you think I'll try to sell the whole team, like sell the license? Yeah, I know. I mean, I think initially he's going to try to keep the license and find a new sponsor. But, but yeah, if, listen, if somebody else, let's say another manager has sponsorship, and says, hey, you know what? I have a new sponsor because if now for 2026, somebody has a new sponsor for 27 and 28, I mean, you can't just jump in.

You need to wait for three years. And so this is a great opportunity, in my opinion, to jump in and have the remaining two years of a team of a contract and get that license for 2007 and 2008. And then what if he did sell it? How much would that go for? Yeah, that's yeah. I mean, listen, I think that that particular team, probably not so much because even if he doesn't have contracts beyond 2006, pretty sure they're riders with contracts. So you have to, you know, honor those contracts. A part of that, you know, what's the worth, what's the value of a cycling team really if you

sell a license, it's, it's contracts. I mean, ideally sponsoring contracts, apparently there are not many of those. There's liability. So riders and staff contracts and then there's equipment. There's, you know, buses, vehicles and maybe offices and service course if it's not, if it's not a lease. Yeah, it could just be a lease. You know, normally it's a lease, you know, but yeah, I mean, the value is not that

much, you know, and especially a team that is in the lower rankings for a number of years now, like Picnic, Post, and Elle, I think it would be pretty cheap, very cheap. I listened to a good interview with Tour Hushab on the Cycling podcast recently, and it's not, it's because he was saying like, oh, like it's good to be World Tour. It's good for our sponsors. They can wrap their head around it. But like they didn't really, life is easy. If you're a good pro team, like Second Division team, going up to World Tour, it's a lot of

responsibility. It's a lot more money. You have to go to every race. There's more obligations. Yeah. Yeah. And he was saying, like, it's great to have done it. But you could imagine a situation where you were a team, an upstart team with the sponsor.

It might not be the best thing just to buy a World Tour license. You're like, now we're at the Tour de Friends. It's like, that sounds appealing, but there are downsides to it and you have to live up to it. It's a budget. It's a budget question. You know, if a big sponsor really wants in and straight away go to the biggest league, then you can do it. But, yeah, I mean, listen, I'm not saying that's going to happen. You know, I think, I think speaking brink will first of all try to find sponsorship to remain, you know, in the world tour.

It's, it is quite also, it's quite attractive for a new sponsor to say, okay, if you come in in 2007 and 28, we can guarantee you all the big races. You know, even if it's with a lower budget, you're in, right? If he gets his budget, there's no minimum on a budget for the World Tour, like legally or the rules don't say you have to have this, this is the minimum. So if these numbers are true that, you know, it's less than 15 million.

It's definitely the lowest of all the World Tour teams, but they're still World Tour. They're still, they're doing all the big races. They're doing the Tour de France. They're doing the Giro. They're doing the VALTA. And they're in the big league. I guess the effect of minimum would be 28 times the minimum salary and the gas in hotel room.

Going to the race, which, I mean, that would be something to have a whole team on minimum salaries. I want to see somebody do that. Yeah. That probably is slightly higher than you think. I heard a team had a gas bill over a million euros. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, if it's big, I mean, big vehicles and you have to travel all over Europe with buses and trucks and the price. of gas here or through the roof.

It's fine. You as an American, you come here. You say, okay, this is, you pay here per liter what you pay for a gallon in the US. Like in France, it's probably $10 a gallon. Yeah. Yeah. And so we're going to go to French gas. Our second section here.

I just, I forgot what I was going to say. But Beniam Germai was like announced at the NSN team camp media day. Are uniforms getting worse? What is going on? the cycling. Well, you know, I've read a lot about it, about that uniform. I have to say, you know, I mean, initially I say, wow, but I actually like it, man. I think it's very, I mean, it draws the attention. It sticks out and it's different than any traditional cycling uniform. And I think for that team, you know, it's definitely assigned.

This is a new team, a new image, completely different than anything else of what they had before and anything else than everybody else. So I have to say, I kind of like it. You know, we're definitely going to see them. And it's, you know. I guess we should probably have Gabriel put a picture of the kid up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Let's do that. Yeah. It's kind of like peachy. I don't know. It's like very 1980s. Well, yeah. Yeah. But no, I mean, I like it.

I like it. I actually just talked about it. Like just before we, you got here, Spencer, I had a call with one of our sponsors. Echo, they're sponsoring NSN cycling team. And yeah, they, Echo also, they love the design. Also new bikes, right? The Scott bikes. So everything's different.

Yeah. Well, I mean, we'll see. I mean, Binyam Gidemi has been confirmed. You know, he's the number one rider on that team. What do you think, Spencer? What your thoughts on his? What level can he reach? Where do you see Binyam Gidemii in 2006 season cycling?

You know, didn't have a great season. The year before, he won three stages at the tour, right? in 2024 and the green jersey yeah yeah jersey three stages at the tour at the tour kind of he's i mean he's a very good writer i like the signing for him even if he's let's say he stinks it up for the rest of his career it's almost worth it for them because they have now they have an identity and they've changed the conversation it's not just about yeah the protests and everything like they really have an identity they can build on that he's pretty good even when he's in a funk which you i would say he was probably in a bit of a funk this year you look at it

his results still contesting stages of the tour. Yeah. That's not nothing. And I mean, he was what, I think he was second or third in the green jersey standings. So it wasn't, he was terrible. But he's one of these riders where even to go back at the great tour that he had last year, like kind of a disappointing year up until then. But he does seem able to like meet that level.

You know, he'll be lower than you think he is and he can kind of go up and hit that level. It's not clear to me why he's not as consistent. I think 2006 is going to be very, very crucial for him. If he can come back to something that was similar to his best level, I would say, okay, you know, he's still up there. Once you're out of the game, I mean, out of the game, like not in the top tree or not contesting these sprints anymore for two or more seasons.

I think the way cycling at the speed cycling is evolving now and the levels going up year after year. I'm a bit worried. I'm a bit worried. In his favor, he is still quite young. I think we often make the mistake. Biniam Gidemi, we kind of see him as a veteran already, but he turned pro really young.

I think if I'm not mistaken, in the junior rankings, I think he was probably the only rider to ever beat Remko Avenapul in the juniors. Binyam Gidemi. Yeah, now I'm thinking about it. He was. So, you know, let's give him some time. But definitely in 2006, he will need to step up as the leader of NSN cycling and needs to perform again. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't want to say the F word, but you do worry is this like Frum 2.0. Like they signed a very expensive writer. That was an albatross on their neck for years. But he's 25. He's coming off. I'm looking at his results. Finish the season, you would not say fantastically.

I think, I mean, I think he lost to Arna DeLea, who would have been his rival for leadership had he stayed by like in seven consecutive races. But did we hear anything about this season? Like, why was he up the level? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, it's, it is concerned.

I mean, obviously, listen, let's, we also need to, you know, think about, there has been a lot of uncertainty around that team for the whole season now. Obviously, you know, the financial problems they had during the season, Girmai for sure also was informed about this. I think, I think that there had been issues with his bonus. in 2004, they didn't get paid. So I don't know if they got paid now already or not, but that obviously has an impact on a rider and his season.

If you have worries, first of all, you don't know every month if you're going to get your salary or not. And then nobody, I mean, the uncertainty about the year after has been there. I think, in my opinion, the whole season. So this might have had an impact on Girmai more than we think. But here's another question. But I like it. I like the signing for Innocent.

I think it's important for them. And I don't think they had a lot of other options. If Derek's gone, what are you going to do? But do they have Intermarche for all their failings, pretty strong team? Like, they supported him really well. Like, you look at their roster at any given classic race, and they just have a lot of guys who imagine contesting for the win. Does NSN have the same level of support that is your premier tech that?

That intermarshay hit. Intermash hit. Yeah. Yeah, that number not. They're not connected to some teams, NS and Israel. Yeah. I don't know.

I think for the, yeah, I think for the classics, probably yes. I think they have good riders to support, to support Gidmae. I mean, he is for sure going to be the number one leader in the races that suit him. So, no, I think so. I think, I mean, certainly in terms of the whole staff,

and the infrastructure around the team is going to be a lot better for Girmai than at Intermarche. Yeah, I mean, what do you think the budget of that team was? We were talking about a 15 million euro budget. Intermachet, they're up there with, I think they're up there with

Big Nick Post-N-L, I think so. I mean, we were hearing figures about their title sponsorship commitment and it was shocking. Yeah. I would be surprised if it was $15 million. But let's take a quick ad break and then we'll be right back.

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limited time only. Our listeners are getting 20% off at Bubbs Naturales by using code we do WEDU at checkout. Just head to BUBS naturals.com and use code we do in your all set. After you purchase, I'll ask you where you heard about them. Make sure you say us so we get some credit. All right, Johan, I've spent the last few days at the UAE, I've been poking around the UAE team hotel for their camp talking to some people at Colano. If people who remember, I don't even really know why I got this in my head. But I just think I thought the bike looked heavy and then they were using it inconsistently throughout the year. My thought was like, well, maybe it's too heavy. They're only using it to appease the sponsor when they need to. But they like the,

I think it's the V5 was the classic road bike one. And then they, they rolled it out for Odecom, pretty good result there. The time trial the next day, you wouldn't say that wasn't too bad for Pagachar and then he never left it. He's been on it ever since. So it would confirm that he liked it. But one thing that they pointed out to me is like, okay, you're saying they didn't use it in the classics. Well, you don't understand the classics where everything was prepared for the classics and tested like six months before the classics. And so I found out yesterday, Taday Pagacar, Tim Wellens, and I think Florian Bernice were up.

I was in Brussels briefly. I thought, wow, this looks terrible, this mother. I wouldn't want to be out there riding. But they were out there previewing, I believe, Perrieubert, and testing equipment on it. And like, I was so much shocked to find out that's, and they had, you know, a lot of resources up there. Very smart people from both Colenargo and the team supporting them.

It's shocking to know that this is when the decisions for equipment are made for Peribet, which is half a year away. Yeah, I mean, we also, the images on social media, you know, of Pogart. I mean, they can't. I mean, they wanted to go incognito, but they can't go anyway incognito. Someone told me he wouldn't even get a haircut, but got sure. There's people taking this picture in an haircut. So he was blown up.

But yeah, I mean, it's true. You know, equipment is being tested now in the winter. We also saw Walt Von Art and Visma testing out the wheels, you know, the self-inflating and deflating hubs that were already used last year. They tested it again. I saw some images throughout on the cobbles, really bad weather. I mean, it's, yeah, I'm not going to say shocking, but it is what's apparently what they do now. And did you have George out there, like early December?

Never. No, you would never mean back in the day, never. Nobody, nobody did that. No, normally, I mean, for Pogacar is a bit different because it's a new race for him, right? So he did it the first time as a professional last year. He had done it already as a junior, Padre dube. But so he's still learning that race. But I mean, even a guy like Van Ard, who has done it many, many times,

who knows the race in and out is already testing equipment. And with Visma. So no, no, I mean, this is something that you would not even think about to do this in December. No way. So, yeah. Listen, in today's cycling, they are super prepared for everything. The calendar is announced.

You know, many teams announced their teams already or they line up for classics, which leaders are doing which races. So it's just part of it. And I think it says a lot about Pogacar's ambition for those races for Roubae and also for Milan San Remo, but specifically Rubet. I mean, he could easily not have gone. He'd be here.

The weather's better for here, but it's pretty nice. I think he came a day late because of that, because I think the part of the team was here already. And he came, I'm going to guess he arrived yesterday because today actually I rode with friends, you know, a lap. We did 100 kilometers. And, yeah, they passed, the team past us.

I mean, no, we don't go very fast. First of all, we're all people. But we, you know how we, our group we're called the omels? You know, you have mammals as middle-aged men in Lycra. We are the omels, the old man in Lycra. So, yeah, they passed us. They were at cruise speed talking and they were, it was impressive. But I think he came a bit late to the training camp because he first went to Belgium

and more to France to preview that. or not preview. I think it was more equipment testing than previewing the course. Yeah, because when I heard he was there, I was thinking, oh, he's previewing the course. They said, no, it's all equipment testing. They're trying to figure out what they're going to run. Well, I mean, what would they be testing then?

Obviously, they're not going to ride the aerobike. I saw on the pictures, it's the traditional shaped frame, but we don't know if it's their traditional frame or if it's a special frame for Roubaix. Wheels, tires. I spent an hour this morning with the lead engineer, Colomago. Maybe he just believes in the aerobike a lot, but he was saying, well, it's high speed. If you want to go solo, maybe the aerobike is the way to go.

On the cobbles. I wrote it today. It's pretty stiff. I don't know. Yeah, well, I mean, listen, we, Spencer, listen, I mean, you're obviously, you're a lot younger, but you can't compare our feelings on a bike, on any bike compared to professional. Whatever it feels, it makes no, it doesn't matter. They ride these, you have to compare this, Spencer, to us riding a super nice car,

and then they give us a Formula One car. We would not be able to drive it. Same way with the bikes, you know. Well, I'm on this bike that Progatchar had right before me, and they had to change, I could not have written it. They had to change the seatpost because he sits so far from, I don't think I could have successfully ridden it a couple miles. That's how modified these positions are.

So you got the bike now and you're going to test it here or what are you going to do? Yeah, test it here and then fly home with it and then maybe fly to San Diego or something. Find nice weather. It is slightly warm and boulder now that I've left. We'll see. We're not lucky with the weather here because I'm here for three days. I mean, initially three days. I'm probably going to stay a bit longer.

but today was today Friday it was the best day Saturday, Sunday, tomorrow, and the day after, it's going to rain. So I don't think you're going to get a lot of riding again. Well, we'll see. Sunday looks dire and Sunday was the day to ride a lot. But they were also testing. I don't know if I should say specifically what, but some tire widths that kind of shocked me for the regular road bike. I do wonder if we're going to see tire widths, like take a step.

So wider? Quite a bit wide. 34? Even bigger than that. Wow. Yeah. Pagotra was the day he was not at the camp. I mean, I think this, I think 34, 35, it's, it's big.

But I've been riding 35's like road, road tires on a gravel bike. It rides very smooth. Probably not, you know, to be competitive, it must be a bit slower, in my opinion. That's heavier. Yeah, and it's just a lot of rubber when you get up to that. Yeah. But Pogaccha are usually, I mean, it's already a few years now that he's, he rides 30 millimeters all year round, whereas everybody else rides 208s,

or most of them ride 28s. Yeah, they were walking me through it, that he stepped his width up. I mean, these, also these rims, these NBRIMs, we're not sponsored by NVVE. They're pretty impressive, and the tire sits on there so well. So whatever they're doing, it's working out well. Yeah, it works well for Pogacha. You mentioned that they passed you. How do they, I don't think if you've never been to a camp, you probably imagine it's like a group ride.

They just go out and they're treated every day. But it's not like that. They have days where they're going slower, they're going faster. How do they map that out? I think, I mean, although it seemed to us that they were flying, in my opinion, today was just an endurance day. Just, you know, they were going fast, but they were chatting. These guys were always right fast. You know, so I think it was just an endurance day with the group today and then probably

they're going to have other days where they do specific, specific exercises. But who was it who said, oh, it was, I saw an interview with Neil Spollett. I don't know if you saw that interview a few weeks ago. And he said, you know, like at UAE, the training, the group trainings are just insane. It's basically, you know, they're just racing. He was at training camp last year here, and they did one big ride of like 200K, and his average wads on that training ride were higher than his watts to the Flanders. Wow.

Two of the flanders of the whole. So imagine the intensity of the training rides at that team. I think you mentioned that this last year, the year before, they did it. It's like a 30 minute out. Maybe it was long, maybe a shorter, like a 15 minute out in back time trial, all out at training camp. This time of year, it's, and I mean, you see these guys walking around. They look race fit. It's, I mean, they must show up almost at their race level.

We talked about this one weeks past. We don't quite get it. But it's, you see them in person and it brings it home how fit they are. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, they race, they don't race many days, you know. I mean, that's it. That's what completely changed. You know, I published on my social media the other day, you know,

a screenshot of my journal from my first Tour de France season when I was a young professional. And I had, it was my last race, Lombardy, I had abandoned, and I had 35,500 kilometers that year, and 123 race days. And, you know, if you look at certain riders programs now, it's 523. That's so much. Yeah. So if you look, if you look, you take out the, you know, the winter. So basically November, December, January, no races.

So that's basically one race every second day. Wow. That's too much race. No, that was crazy. That was crazy. But, you know, that was the way it was then. You know, you raced yourself into shape. You did a lot of races where you were just not competitive, but you just were there for training.

That's obviously not possible anymore today. because races are such a high level. You show up at any easy, early season race, and if you're not fit, you're dropped. So it doesn't matter which category of race. If it's a World Tour race or a Pro race or a 1.1, whatever, you're dropped. Yeah, just think about Oscar only. The last two years, he's been really good at Tourdown Under.

It's not seemed to hurt his tour to France. He got top five at the tour. you mentioned not a lot of races. Remko Evanapult came out with the schedule today. What were the highlights? And then I think the major highlight is it's only 40 days of racing. Well, I mean, you know, we talked about Remko's program when there was these rumors about Giro and Tour of Flanders especially. And I was critical about it.

I said it was a bad idea. Obviously, this is not the reason they didn't listen to the podcast. I mean, maybe they did listen to the podcast, but that's not. you can't judge it this but that's not the reason but you know it's a traditional program you know he's going to focus on the ardennes so fleshwallon le esh boston liege amsel gold race uh and uh dauphiné whatever it's called now rome yeah anyway doffine let's call it dauphiné and and tour de france and then the world championships after that uh yeah i did a quick a quick uh cataluni also he does so you know he does two one-week races, two of the seven one-week races. So I think, in my opinion, that should be a focus

for him. But if you add all the races, it's 40 races in the whole season. So not a lot. But you also have to say that if a rider like Remko, even a pool, in a team like Red Bull, he's hired there to win. every single race on his program is to perform. There is no races there that he's not going to have any pressure. He has the pressure all the time to perform. And I think for a writer like Remko, I think that works because I've seen a lot of times that when he comes back from a training block without any races, he performs mostly the best. Yes.

So it doesn't need a lot of races. but 40 40 races is not a lot. Just to give people perspective on this or context. Forgotcha didn't race, like he had maybe the lightest race number of race days of his career,

maybe outside of 2020. I mean it was 50. So it's 10 less than that. And even Evanapole, I'm looking at 2023, he raised 68 days. So it's a significant step down. I know a guy who did less races.

I mean, than 40, in my opinion. It's Matthew Hunterpool. If you look at, look him up, you'll see he might be you're right I mean even just think of the races that we saw him at try to count him in your head it's so few 40 41 41 this year because he did the tour all the way to

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah was there years where he's always done a great tour no wait what about like 2021 yeah he's 37 race days yeah but you know I mean listen that's the same thing Matthew, every single race he starts, he has to perform. That's the label he has. He needs to be the leader of the team and perform.

And the good thing about these guys is that usually they do deliver. They're not always winning, but they're always in it for the win. So Remko's going to the tour. I'd assume... With Lipowitz. Red Bull strategy will be. They're both leaders. They've announced that already.

Yeah. And no, Roglidge is not. So Roglidge has announced that he's not doing the tour. He's focusing on the Vuelta. So if you look at Roglich, you know, so no tour, yes to the Vuelta. I think, you know, he can become the all-time record holder of the Vuelta. If he wins, he's going to have won it five times, which is nobody has done. Now he's equal tie with Roberto Eras. They both have four.

I think, in my opinion, this is just me thinking, right? I have no information, but I think that Roglidge will also do the Tour of Switzerland because it's the only one of the seven important one-week races. He hasn't won. He has won everything else. He has won Tireno. He has won Parinis. He has won the Basque Country.

He won Catalonia. He won Romandy and he won the Dofiney already. So if he wins to the Switzerland, he fulfills that. He won all seven of those. and then also, I mean, if Roglidge can focus on his own races and races where Bulacchar is not racing, I think Roglidge could get to 100 victories this season. He has won 91 races so far. So I think Roglitz has his own program, his own goals, and I think it's very achievable.

And so, I mean, if you, it's the fault that's pretty good for Red Bull and him, not going to the tour, Did they say anything about the Giro? They didn't say yet about the Giro. I do think that they're probably going to send Belizari. Belizari has publicly said that he would love to do the Gero, but it's the team who decides. And then, you know, they also have Jay Hindley, X Giro winner. You know, who got second of the zero two years ago? I forgot about this, to be completely honest.

Yeah, Daniel Felipe Martinez. And he's on that team. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, another guy who likes, I mean, I hope he can get back. But, you know, this year was not a good season for Philippe Martinez, Daniel Felipe Martinez. No, I would not say that was especially in a team like that. Because I mentioned Jai Henley, a few years in the wilderness.

Now he's back. Yeah. Looking great. And I assume he'll go to the Giro as well. Let's take a quick break. And then I want to talk to you about this phenomenon of why do we know all this right now? It seems like it's coming out wait too early. I don't fully get it, but we'll be right back.

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I think the big news of the day, the one that maybe didn't shock me and maybe we saw coming, but it's still surprising. Jonathan Milan not going to the tutor friends. It's Madd-Peterson's time. Why is Little Check doing this? Why not send both of them? Is this sustainable? Like one for him, one for Mads, one for Milan? I think so.

I mean, listen, last year they left, I mean, this season, they left Pedersen out. I mean, not left them out. They obviously agreed upon it. And Peterson did a great Giro and a great Vulton. Yeah, actually, maybe help. And had a great classic season. I mean, you know, he was all the time up there with top three, top four. But yeah, let's not forget that this year, Little Trek didn't have any GC ambitions.

They were focusing completely on the green jersey and they won it with Milan. But next season, there's Juan Ayuso, who wants to go for GC in the tour. So they have to divide the team. And in my opinion, with a guy who wants to go for G.C., apparently, Skelmosa is also on the team for the tour. So they have two riders for G.C. And I think Peterson fits that team better because Patterson is also a guy that on the days that are not for him, he is an incredible support rider. Whereas Milan, in my opinion, his climbing abilities are a bit less than Peterson. and will not be of that service to the leaders for G.C.

Yeah, that's a good. I mean, Pedersen, was that the Malta this year? Yeah. Where he was like the domestic work was really impressive, really impressive. So let's say Jonathan Milan goes back to the tour next year, uninstructed. Does he win another green jersey? Because that was a unique, I feel like that was a unique situation. Yeah, I mean, you know, that, you know,

Let's not forget, Philipson crashed out early. Yeah. And Philipson wins that. Pedersen was not there. Pedersen is an incredible rider for the points jersey. You know, he's already, he's won the green jersey. He won the green jersey. He won the tour, no?

Already? I don't know about that. I think he won it at the Giro this year. No, he won in the Vuelta. I don't think he's won the green jersey. No, no, no, he didn't. No. Little Trek won the green jersey

in the points jersey in all three grand tours yeah yeah um but listen matt's peterson is an incredible writer uh i think you know having him as uh one of the of your protected riders for the points classification it's i would say between him and jonathan milam if i have to choose i think statistically there's probably more chance peterson wins it than milan yeah and this year was you had these weird situations where I don't know why they did this the sprint point would be like 20k into the stage so they would just have Quinn Simmons control it and the line would get it you can imagine a tour where it's a bit more difficult than that to grab those points but so they set these races as just as a manager a man manager would you rather have this and now everyone's kind of as you say it's split into camps you know I'm doing this. but I kind of want to be doing that. And I have my allies on the team now aligned with me against this guy. Or would you rather have everyone trying to impress you all year, trying to get on that tour?

Well, I think, you know, it's still the case. You know, let's not forget the teams, normally they announce the program of their leaders because we live in an era where, you know, with social media and the demands of the media are so, you know, really demanding that you kind of have. to say, okay, this is what I'm going to do. There's no rule for that. You don't have to. But what I would, I mean, I would be more in favor of obviously discussing it internally and deciding internally at the beginning of the season. Okay, these are the big lines. Let's say, okay, this leader, this is his program. This is what we're going to try to achieve.

But we all know that the season can change. You know, a lot of things that, you know, I am not completely in favor of already saying, okay, for the Tour of France, for example, for example, Visma has done this already a couple of years now. These are the eight riders for the tour. You know, this is, in my opinion, it's not ideal because I think you need more. You need to have your core five, six riders. And then for those last two places, I think it's, in my opinion, the way I see it, it's good that there's a healthy internal competition for those last spots because it brings up the level of the team.

And we all know that, I mean, it can change because if now in December you already say to a guy who's number nine or 10 on the list, hey, you're not in the eight, sorry, it can be counterproductive. You know, I mean, the guy can say, okay, you know what? I think I deserve to be on there. Screw you guys. I'm going to look for another team already. Yeah. Especially if you tell them Jan 1 or whatever. Yeah. I mean, it depends how the discussions go, of course. But I think it should be it should be the core.

The way we did it, I mean, and I don't want to say that it was better, you know, but I always had, I mean, first of all, we never had 30 riders. We had 20, 22, 25 sometimes maximum. And so you had, let's say, 12 to 15. 14 riders who when we were focusing on the tour de France these are the 12 or the 14 riders who can be in the team for the tour we're still nine riders then and and you have that conversation with these riders in the off season at the first training camp okay you know what you're on the long list of the tour and this is the program we're going to do to lead up and then we're deciding

in the month before usually you know you go you go stepwise you know after the classic or after the first stage race, you say, okay, you know what, this is my core group. If nothing happens, these six are sure. And then the last two or three, usually we decided after Dauphine and two of the Swiss, whoever was in great shape, because you can have a guy who's on the list of eight and for some reason doesn't work out. I mean, nothing says that these teams who announce these selections already, now they're allowed to change it.

You know, and nobody can tell them, okay, now you announced it. Now you have to take those eight. It changes. But I think it should be a big softboat, not set in stone already in December or, you know, I'm not a big fan of that. I guess now that just as you were talking, I was thinking maybe what's slightly different now is these altitude camps are so numerous. So planned and so planned. Yeah.

For sure. If you're going to the tour, you should probably be at these outdoor camps. Yeah. they're spending so much money on them, they want you to be there, the captain, getting the training down. Yeah, I know, Spencer, but you know what? I mean, if we look, we just talked about Ramco 40 races. Let's say, you know, nowadays the guys will do the most races probably 60, 65.

You know, there's still a lot of, I mean, it doesn't mean because you're going to do, let's say, Catalonia and Dauphiné in the lead-up. I mean, other riders can do Romandy and Tour of Switzerland. And in between those races, you can also still do training camps. Now, of course, logistically, it becomes complicated for a team, right? It's better you have your core group to follow that program with the staff. But, yeah, I mean, listen, you're right. You know, it's changed so much that the training camps, the altitude training camps,

are obviously a big influence in those decisions of those programs. Yeah, so Larry Warbuss, 2023, this is the most race days I've seen in recent history, 90 race days. And that's like the most. You know, there's maybe a few people touching 100 sometimes, but you're right. They have trimmed that. And yeah, yeah, I don't really get it. I was just trying to think of reasons why you would maybe want to define that as early as possible. But you know what you're just talking about, Tour Switzerland?

Primos Rogelich preparing, did you notice that they trimmed it to five days? I saw that, yeah. That's got to really mess with the preparation. I mean, it's good for Primos. If he's just trying to show up and win, he doesn't care about the tour. But if you're a tour contender or even just racing the tour, it's like, well, what do you do? Like, do you try to combine that with a training camp? Yeah, you have to.

You have more altitude training camp. It's a super intensive racing during five days. And the tour of Switzerland, they will, you know, they will have to. have at least two mountain stages. Two time trials, two mountain stages. Probably a time trial. So, you know, I think it, yeah, probably no prologue. But because this year there was a prolog and a time trial and a mountain top time trial.

Yeah, Romandy and Switzerland for some reason often have two time trials. Yeah. Well, if you bring it back to five days, you cannot have two time trials. Unless one mountain stage is a mountain time trial. but yeah it's it's it's bizarre um i don't know if if it's budget wise also probably yeah and because i think they're independent they're one of the only independent races left i mean yeah they're not part of ASO or rcs or flanders classics they're you know they're they're an independent race yeah because amstow got purchased by flanders yes yeah i mean they were they were doing well like

that was a strong race so if they sold it tells you it must be tough sliding for the rest of those teams. Yeah. Johan, should we, anything else? Are we missing any news before we get to the big, the big check-in of the week,

the Strava Challenge? The Strava Challenge, how are you doing, Spencer? Well, I mean, unfortunately, we have to say, Spencer, in your favor, you know,

the luck is not on your side. You know, you missed your, your bag got delayed, so you couldn't ride today. I got 100 kilometers, so. That's crushing.

I was saying it would be funny if I just didn't. So I, I don't know what happened to it. So what are you, what, what is, What is your total right now? I think you can only see it on the desktop, right?

Oh, you can, no, you can see it. So what's your total? My total is. No, you have to click on there. There you go. So you go to. Oh, so you go to miles. You're in miles.

Okay, so miles. 7,259. So 700, 260 miles. And then so seven, okay, remember that. What about me? Seven to. I know, I'm more, I know I'm more. I know I passed a 12,000 kilometer mark.

So that was my goal this year. So mission accomplished already. Okay, 7.4.15. So it's not quite 200 miles ahead. Still, that's a lot. That's a lot. It's a lot. Like I said, I'm like Roman Marday.

I'm in second place, but am I even really in the fight? Plus, you have to travel back home, but you have to test this aerodynamic bike now. So maybe maybe you're going to catch up. Yeah, I have an overnight Leo Burden. and Brussels, I'll unpack it and go, maybe I'll go do some Rubé recon from the airport. Or, you know, take a private plane and put the rollers inside the plane. Yeah, we might have to resort to that. I did, I was picking transit hotels and Brussels.

And I was like, that one looks like it maybe has a peloton. Oh, okay. But anyway, Spencer, listen, I mean, it's, I think it's a very fun challenge between the both of us. We, you know, our fans follow it. I sometimes I run into people I actually run into somebody in Madrid the other day a French guy who was a big fan of the podcast and the first thing he asked is how are you doing compared to Spencer a lot it's really funny how much people care no it's and listen I mean it doesn't matter we've both rid a substantial amount of kilometers this season and I mean I've accomplished my goal

already. So anything's a bonus now. Yeah, there are people, some listeners will know this, but next week I'm participating in a 500-kilometer challenge. Oh, it is a chance of not back. Okay. Where is that? That's not, I mean, it's not in the United States. Where is it somewhere in the Caribbean? No, it's just like you can do it. Anyone can do it. It's just like a challenge that some friends and I have been doing every year and then now like other people are joining it on Strava. Oh, Strava. Okay. But so, I mean, Zwift counts also. What is it? 500 miles? 500k. 500k. So you're going to still do more than you're going to still do 500k this

December. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. Well that's good. I was not I was not going to tell you but I'm not that ethical if I'm doing a challenge and I don't mention it to you. I mean yeah. I mean it's okay means that I can't relax over Christmas. It's like what if someone who makes the information well I mean you know listen I mean you can take advantage of, I mean, I'm going five days to Belgium and not taking my bike. It's huge. But after Christmas, I'm coming back here for a week. So that's not good for you.

It's pretty good riding. We were talking before we recorded. How did it come to be that every, Red Bull does my arc, I guess, because the Germans in the team will not let them not go there. But everybody else is here. How did that come to be? Yeah. I mean, I listen, in early, late 80s already, it started.

I mean, I came here early 90s when I signed for Onse. And I actually lived here for 10 years in the village nearby here. And since then, I mean, this point on the map of Spain, you know, between Valencia and Alicante, statistically over the winter, I mean, winter and spring, it is by far the best weather. And yeah, there's many, many riders who, first of all, there's writers who permanently live here, like Matthew Vandrapul lives here permanently. Remko lives here permanently. And then there's many riders who rent something for three months, four months.

And also, I think that, you know, the hotel infrastructure is amazing for teams. I mean, you're at the UAE camp. I mean, I'm going to guess, take a wild guess, but between the pro team, the women's team is the women's team there yeah and the and the development team i'm going to say it's at least 150 people if not more i mean they have so much that yeah it's shocking and so there are not many regions that can actually cater for that amount of people uh i mean they're all in the same hotel right yeah so so yeah um and there's many many many hotels plus you know something also uh considerable is that uh in this winter period the

the prices are actually very cheap compared to other regions. So it makes a lot of us. I mean, if you have in the team's budget, if you do a training camp of two weeks with 100 plus people, that's that's a big amount of money. Yeah. Yeah. I was saying I'm saying a bed dorm, like, but up on the hill, it's quite nice. But when you look down at the city, it's weird. There's so many skyscrapers because they're probably like, we got to fit as many rooms in here as possible.

So let's build 50-story hotel rooms. hotel buildings. I mean, the UAE1-9 is kind of perfect. I looked at the price, not expensive per room, at the top of the hill, into the road. You can kind of take, you can spread out, take over the garage, I assume. And, yeah, there's maybe not the, and it's supposedly dry here, even though it's not dry this weekend. But there's not many places that check all those boxes. Yeah, for sure.

Plus, the riding is amazing also. Yeah. You can ride flat. You can gentle climbs, bigger climbs. I mean, they're obviously not real big mountain passes, but there's pretty big climbs. There's some climbs, the 7, 8, 10 kilometers. So you don't need anything more for this time of the year. And smooth roads, which you go to Italy.

And a lot of back roads. Plus, what you also have, Spencer, I mean, you will see if you manage to get some rides in. The drivers here are very used to seeing so many cyclists. Nobody gets upset, which is, you know, a big. big plus for to come train here. Yeah. It's a nice culture too. Like I showed up two hours late to the parmental place in the U.S.

They would probably hassle you about that. That's not a problem. Like nothing's a problem. Well, Spain is, you know, it's not today. It's manana. Manana. That part of the culture is nice. When you order a room service for lunch, it doesn't show up four hours.

That's the down. Uh-huh. But, Johan, it was great doing this in person. Anything else before we take off? Well, no, I hope you can sort everything out logistically and that we can get a ride-in together before the end of the weekend. Yeah, it's just, but I didn't actually bring this stuff. I'm like, I don't know where the guy is. They're not showing up with the shoes.

But no, it was great doing this. And hopefully we get a ride in. Yeah. Yeah. We'll be back on Monday with George Incapping. We'll be back on Monday. The trades and transfers. Which hopefully this Oscar-onlea thing is resolved by then.

So we can talk about it. I don't be resolved by then. I mean, whatever we're going to get is going to be rumors not confirmed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thanks, Spencer.

Okay. Thanks, Spencer.