THEMOVE - What Are the Hidden Implications of the Latest Roster Shakeups? | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin discuss how Tom Pidcock's move to Q36.5 makes sense for him and both his new and old teams, Tadej Pogačar's 2025 season goals, UAE's radical new bike and the management shakeup at Soudal-QuickStep before answering a few listener questions. Zwift: This adjustability makes Zwift Ride perfect for anyone in the house to use and at $1,299.99 it’s a game-changer so head to https://Zwift.com now to check it out. StoryWorth: With StoryWorth I am giving those I love most a thoughtful, personal gift from the heart and preserving their memories and stories for years to come. Go to https://www.StoryWorth.com/themove and save $10 on your first purchase! That’s StoryWorth.com/themove to save $10 on your first purchase!

The Tour is so important in the big scheme that if Pogacar wins all these races and doesn't win the Tour, it's not a success. It's not a success for him. It's potentially good for cycling though. Yeah, it would be. Because then we get like, I would assume the only rider to beat him would be Jonas. If Jonas gets another win, Pogacar is dominating the one days. That's pretty juicy actually as a narrative and as a viewer. Everybody, welcome back to the move plus our weekly show. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bernil.

We will go through a few topics of the week, including Tom Pickock's move to Q36.5. Why is that happening? How is this happening? Why is it a good idea? A little bit of a Sudol quick step news with Remco Ebenepol out until February, perhaps, and their leader, Patrick Lefevre, stepping down, as well as Tadej Pogacar's program for this coming year and his team's new bikes that have everyone excited, confused, not quite sure what year it is.

Is it 1992? We don't know. But before we get into that, Johan, I want to talk about our sponsor, Zwift. Zwift just released the Zwift Ride, an all-new smart bike that is changing the indoor game and making it easier and more affordable than ever before to get started riding indoors. You may not be a fan of riding indoors normally, but Zwift, the program has totally transformed that. And now the Zwift ride will just add to that experience and make it even more enjoyable, even better. So you can start logging the big miles in the

middle of winter. So if you're like me, you can catch up. I won't catch up to this year, Johan, but start laying that base for 2025 come out come out of the gate hot with the new zwift ride the bike is ultra quiet which is really important if you're inside with multiple members of your family they don't want to hear a loud trainer it's also super easy to set up you just need one tool the frame key to build it all and make any adjustments to saddle height bar height and reach and that's also hugely important if you're like johan and i and you share an indoor bike with someone in your family and they're a different size than you um you can just use one bike and everyone can set it to what they need it and once you're done with that frame key it slots right

back into the magnetic magnetic holder in the frame so you never lose it the zwift ride is just $12,299.99. It's a total game changer. And at that price, it is much more affordable than past all-inclusive indoor riding machines. I'll just leave it at that. And you can join WeDo for our rides on Zwift, which are currently running all through the winter. WeDo Wednesday. They call it a casual no-drop ride, but you can get a workout on it and then suffer Sunday, which is like a two and a half to three hour, pretty brutal ride over multiple

climbs in the Zwift world. If you want to push your limits, sign up for that. Find us on Zwift and look at the Zwift ride at Zwift.com to enhance your indoor riding experience. Johan, you have one of these, right? Am I correct in thinking that? I do. And it's true what you say. It's super, super easy when you share a bike.

Today, for example, my son, he actually just finished a one and a half hour ride on the bike, on the Zwift ride. I want to add to everything you said, Spencer. It's also the big difference compared to the formal setup of, you know, the, the, the smart trainer and a bike it's so stable. It's unbelievably stable. The bike doesn't move. And I think it just makes it a lot more comfortable, especially if you go longer than an hour, it could, you know, sometimes indoor riding can be become hard. You hard, you know, when you, when you have to sit down all the time. Um, also the interactive handlebar is a game changer. In my opinion,

it makes it more entertaining. Uh, you can, you know, see what you're doing in the bunch. And, uh, I really like it. I, uh, and, and as you say, it's super quiet and the shifting, the virtual shifting is really, really also a super, super, uh, super nice. Well, speaking of bikes, positions indoors, the big question, everyone, everyone needs to know this. We mentioned it and then glossed over it for a few weeks. You mentioned over Thanksgiving that you were going to try riding your bike, your road bike outside with your brake hoods canted inwards.

How did that go? Everyone needs to know how you enjoyed that or did not enjoy it. I did. I did try that. That's true. Initially, I was kind of excited about it. It makes sense. If you think about it, I lasted two rides, Spencer.

I did it. And I didn't go completely back to completely straight. I left it, you know, inwards a little bit, but, um, I just, to me, it makes a lot of sense because you can actually get a really arrow position like that. But, you know, I think you need to be young, you need to be flexible, and you need to be able to train in that position a lot. Three things I can't do because I'm not young anymore, I'm not flexible, and I can't train. I mean, I can't keep myself in that position for a long enough time.

So I understand why they are doing it. That was the purpose. But I went back to before because, to before because, um, you know, I have to prioritize comfort over speed. Um, and I just can't stay, uh, long enough in that position, but it does make a lot of sense. I, I felt that, um, you know, I, I can do it for like five minutes, but if you want to stay in an arrow position for for a long time, that's not for me anymore. But so I'm back to, I'm back to where I was before. We got the Ventum Synthos, very kindly Synthos bikes, both of us.

And the one I got, it came, the handlebars are like, I can't tell if the handlebars are slightly bent in or if there's the hoods are slightly in. And I find that to be like the best. They're thin bars. They're much thinner than my old ones. And they're just slightly bent in. That's like a good, happy medium. I feel like. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, nowadays also, you know, things have changed so much. If you look at, you know,

some handlebars depending on the brand, they're like, you know, narrower on the top and then they, they go a bit wider, uh, like, like, not another gravel handlebars, but even on the road and certain teams are actually using them also. So I think that's, uh, that's a good compromise, you know, just a little bit narrower on top, the, the, the brake levers tilted in a little tiny bit. What I found actually really, uh, uncomfortable, but I guess it's also getting used to it, but, um, with the brake levers tilted in, uh, is when you stand up on the pedals, uh, on the, on the brake levers, on the, on the hoods, it feels really strange.

Uh, because obviously you're, you're, you're a lot narrower and, um, you know, for me, for me, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's a no go, uh, but it's more because of comfort. And also, you know, I just don't feel safe. Uh, I can understand that, you know, young riders who have been starting like this or who are used to this, it makes sense. I would actually also recommend not to go too narrow. You know, I mean, I think that's something that we've talked in the past about safety. You know, the narrow handlebars, in my opinion, there needs to be a limit.

I see that there's a lot of riders already with 36, 38. I think that's about as narrow as you can go, especially in a peloton on the road with 200 riders. I think it's not for nothing that mountain bike handlebars are really wide. It gives you a lot of stability. The road racing is not the same, of course, but, uh, there's a limit to everything. And, uh, 38, um, 36 already, I, I, I think 36 is, is a bit of a stretch. Um, especially if, you know, it's, if it's a tall guy. And the narrower the handlebars, also the easier it is to go into a gap

that sometimes is not there. Before, we all had 42s or 43s. There was no space to put your handlebars in. So yeah, I mean, anyway just just a thought but I think the the width of the handlebar should be limited at a certain a certain point I don't know what that is but but we don't have to go like super super narrow in my opinion well speaking of mountain bike road bike the mixture of the two Tom Pickcock we talked about and we recorded last week's show at the worst possible time it was about four hours before tom pickcock released the news

that he was in fact going to q 36.5 that team that's the team he left the inios grenadiers for i don't think any i don't think anyone that had been paying attention was a surprised he was leaving inios or b that he picked q 36.5 I think we said in last week's show that we thought he would go there. It's a little, it's if you aren't familiar with the details, it sounds quite confusing. You're like, wait a second, let's just walk up to someone on the street. Like, Hey, one of the most, I not like one of the most, I guess like celebrated, anticipated, exciting riders in the world is leaving one of the biggest teams and going to one of the smallest teams and worst performing teams. They might be confused by that. But Johan, when you dig into this, actually kind of makes sense for him because he can choose his program.

I think you mentioned this not on the air, but off the air last week that one day races get seven non-world tour invites three of those go to the best three performing second division teams but that leaves four wildcard teams so there'll be plenty of room for tom pickock and q36 to 6.5 at any one day race they want to go to grand tours could be a little bit more difficult but tom pickock at ruler live said he didn't really want to do grand tours he wants to focus on the one days he didn't i i'm paraphrasing what he said but he did said he wanted to focus on one day's classic classics that's where he sees his future so this could be good for him and if they have the money to pay for him they're probably not paying even his full salary i actually kind of like it for both parties the further away we get from this i think I think the determinative factor has been the money.

Even at the reduced salary, okay, reduced, what it's going to be. If it's true that he was making 5 million, whatever that is, pounds or whatever, I mean, Ineos is not going to pay more than a third of that salary. So there's still two thirds to be paid, which is still 3.5 million or 3.7 million. There's not that many teams who can afford that unless there's an extra budget available. It's not out of the planned budget. And in the case of Q36.5, we all know that the owner and the financial backer is a wealthy individual who owns the company, who owns a few other companies that are related to cycling.

One of them being Pinarello. So there's definitely deep pockets there. I'm pretty sure that some of the sponsors of that team have also come up with an extra. I mean, it's Q36.5 is actually the smallest sponsor, the smallest company of all the sponsors, because there's UBS, there's the bank, the Swiss bank. There's Mercedes, there's Breitling, I think. Uh, so there's a few big companies that maybe have come up with extra budget. So I think that's the determining factor is the money, uh, for sure. Pitcock wants to make minimum the same amount of money that he was making at ENA also, otherwise he wouldn't have been leaving. So if you narrow it down to the candidates,

there's not that many who can do that. Then on top of that, he gets a freedom to ride the different disciplines he likes, cyclocross, mountain bike, and road. They're not focusing on big tours, grand tours right now. So that kind of falls into place nicely. And on top of that, I think the owner of Q36.5, it's a win-win for him because he has Pitcock in his team with the team jersey. They're riding Scott on the road. And there's an agreement with Scott and with the team

that Pitcock will remain both on cyclocross and in mountain bike on Pinarello, which is owned by the owner. Yeah. That's kind of, it's, it's, it falls nicely into place everything.

And then I think let's not forget, you know, Pitcock is still a young rider. He's not that old. So I think that they're going to use the figure of Pitcock to grow as a team. It's now also going to be more, it's easier, as you said, you know, to get into races, but also it's going to be easier to attract, because if you're a small team and there's no strong leader,

then it's difficult to get good riders to come to the team. Having the person of Pitcock on the team will actually make it easier to attract good riders in the next two or three years and build a stronger team what gives a much needed identity i mean like overnight it turns the team into i would say the team i i don't say that to be mean i just like like what is this what's going on at this team like their best do you you remember gianluca rembilia he was had like the pink jersey at the 20th it was a 2016 giro d'italia he's still riding and he's one of that team's best riders so this really turns things around for them overnight gives them an identity they can just build outward from pick

i think i think that now they in my opinion, they need to change their mentality in terms of building the team. Because if you look, I've seen a few riders on that team. In my opinion, they're not cheap. There's Brambilla, but there's a lot of other riders. A few. Nizzolo probably is making. Or other riders that are mid-30 you know, mid thirties or well in their thirties, uh,

who are not cheap and actually are not, you can't build on that, you know? So in my opinion, there needs to be a new mentality, a new way of thinking and a different strategy in terms of hiring for the future. Uh, and I'm pretty sure that, you know, having Pitcock on the team will make that a lot easier. Well, even just think about what you said about, so Scott is likely paying them to sponsor the team. So they're giving them cash plus bikes.

So the owner Ivan Glassenberg doesn't have to pay like someone's paying him. That's like filling up budget. Then his bike brand is getting exposure on the mountain mountain bike and cyclocross, which they were already getting with Tom Pickcock. Like it's really actually clever how he's worked this out. But I think it's a good deal. Listen, I mean, uh, even Glassenberg is, you know, he's no spring chicken, you know, he, uh, he knows what a good deal is.

And, uh, I'm pretty sure that he has calculated a lot. Uh, and, uh, there's, there's a good thinking behind, behind this transfer. And I think it's, it's great for Pitcock, but it's great for his team also, you know, for the, for the team of Glzenberg. So I think we both agree. We like it for Pitcock because he can pick us. He just picks his schedule. I'm going to do this race. I'm going to do this race. The team says that sounds great.

And there's no one at that team that's going to say, I think I should actually be the leader. Like it's the Tom Pickcock show. So it's good for him. Good for the team. It's also good for Ineos. And I say that, like, let's just say to make the math easy, that they're paying a million pounds of the 5 million.

So they're paying a million. I think they're paying more than that. Just to of the 5 million. So they're paying a million. I think they're paying more than that. Just to keep the math easy. Let's say they're paying a million in 2025. So it's 2025, 26, 27. But that means in 2025 alone, they theoretically save 4 million pounds. They have one roster spot left. I don't know who they, I can't imagine they would

sign anyone that expensive at where we are right now. So yeah, someone will fill it. They won't be expensive. So essentially they'll save 4 million pounds this coming year. And then the next year they save an additional 4 million pounds. So that's 8 million, just over two years. Spencer, it's 3 million. It's 3 million instead of 15 million. It's's eight million just over two years it's three million it's three million instead of 15 million it's a 12 million net operation for them yeah 12 million through 2027 they save that means let's you know remember remco evanipol's like famous quote on the for just for this podcast but he said like i'll be with quick step through 2025 you know that's kind of weird because your contract runs through 2026 what What about that year? But let's say they wanted to pursue them in 2026.

They freed up an effective 8 million pounds just in those two years to then offer to pick up to Evanipol and could actually give them a raise and save money, which is crazy. Well, it depends how you look at it, Spencer. We don't necessarily need to think that those 12 million are going to be spent. It may well be that Radcliffe doesn't want to spend that money anymore and wants to stay at the reduced budget.

I think that would make a lot of sense because the budget of Ineos, if it's true that it's 50 million, that's way too much for what they're, what he's getting in return. Well, he cleared up a lot of management. He may as well save that money and not spend it on the team. Well, but think of their two, probably two most expensive riders,

Garrett Thomas and Ingram Bernal. Thomas' contract ends at the end of this coming season. So 2025, Bernal's at the end of 2026. So that's also two. I'm not saying they won't be with the team, but if Garrett Thomas and, again, Bernal resign, it's going to be for probably quite a bit less money than they're currently on. So there's like future savings for them.

It's the most – I'm pretty negative on NOS generally, but this is the most actually like, I feel like they finally potentially turned a corner because they freed. I'm still, I'm still, I'm still thinking what I said a few weeks ago, a few months ago. I still think that Ineos is winding down and that in the future, they're not going to be around. In my opinion, they won't be around in 2027

unless maybe somebody else comes in and buys the team or takes over the team. But because they're going to have a three-year license again, so a three-year World Tour license. So that's worth something. But I can't see this, even with all the changes they've made, I don't think they've made significant enough changes

to turn it around. I can't see it. Well, okay. Well, to pop my bubble, that hurts you, Johan. I was trying to be positive. But actually the facts that back up what you're just saying, and this is really concerning. my bubble that that that that hurts johan i was i was trying to be positive it is but to actually the facts that back up what you're just saying and this is really concerning um it's not to do

with cycling but dan ashworth was like considered one of the great soccer management minds like high level sporting director they court this guy you know he's on i think he's on like six month gardening leave from newcastle making a ton of. And they're like courting him, courting him through that. They sign him. He's their guy to run Manchester United. They just fired him after six months or maybe less than six months. And it just makes you wonder like,

what is going on there? And that's probably the Dave Brailsford decision, you know, because he's the sport. He's like the, he's the executive at large at any, you know, so it doesn't really give you confidence that they have some sort of broader strategy or plan behind the scenes there.

Everybody, before we get into our next section, I wanted to stop and talk about today's partner, which is StoryWorth. Christmas is rapidly approaching, and I want to give a gift to my loved ones that makes them feel special and unique, just like the relationship we share. That's why I'm giving everyone I care about StoryWorth. Each week, StoryWorth emails your loved ones a thought-provoking question that you get to help pick. Things like, what's the bravest thing you've ever done? What's the furthest you've ever traveled? And how did you used to get to school every day? StoryWorth makes the writing process a breeze. All your loved ones need to do is respond to that email with a story. Long or short, it doesn't matter.

You'll be emailed a copy of your loved one's responses as they're submitted over the course of the year. After that year, StoryWorth compiles your loved one's stories and photos into a beautiful keepsake hardcover book that you'll be able to share and revisit for generations to come. This is why I am considering getting this for someone like my father-in-law.

Many can answer it and then my kids can have a nice keepsake of all his memories and stories and a beautiful coffee table book that they can keep for the rest of their lives, hopefully. And families love StoryWorth. That's why it has more than 35,000 five-star reviews on Trustpilot with millions of stories preserved since they were founded over 10 years ago. love StoryWorth. That's why it has more than 35,000 five-star reviews on Trustpilot with millions of stories preserved since they were founded over 10 years ago. With StoryWorth, I know that I'm giving those I love most a thoughtful personal gift from the heart and preserving their memories and stories for years to come. Go to storyworth.com slash the move and save $10 on your first purchase. That's StoryWorth.com slash the move to save $10 on your first purchase.

All right, let's get back to the show. To push back, like counterpoint is like, Juana Uso, that guy's not going to be a domestique for Teddy Pagacar forever. So let's say he wants to leave UOE. Where does he go there's not that many places that like wouldn't a fresh inios with no thomas no bernal no pickcock theoretically that's like a decently attractive landing spot but it takes a lot of work to rebuild a team like you know with with uh with with one rider, I agree.

Ayuso will probably not stay with Pogacar. Even, I mean, I've read his interview. He says, you know, okay, I'm not, I want to be better than Pogacar in the future. I think he'll have to wait a few years, to be honest. He's a really good rider. Don't get me wrong. You know, he's amazing. He won Tireno.

He won the Basque country. He was third in the Vuelta. He won a bunch of, a bunch of races already. But he was second at Tireno. Was he second in Tireno? Oh yeah. Yeah.

I think you don't know. You don't know. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I saw an interview of him where he said that, you know, he's going to the Giro, which, you know, automatically already means that today is

not doing the Giro. But then he says, yeah, you know, I won't, I want to be better than him eventually. So he will have to move to another team. Are we sure UA is committed to Pogacar? I'm kidding. That's a joke. I think they're going to stick with him. But Ayuso is one of those guys also who has a long-term deal and a huge buyout clause.

A huge buyout. I don't know. I don't remember how much it is, but it's the same, in the same proportion as the buyout clause of Bogacar compared to the contract he has. So I don't know if he can leave, you know, or anyway, nowadays.

He could potentially get so uncomfortable that UAE would have to make a decision, essentially, but lease him because this doesn't seem like, yeah, I don't really see how that's going to work. I didn't, I didn't like, I mean, listen, the guy's super ambitious, you know, it's easy. He has the mind of a champion, the mind of a winner. I applaud him for that, but you know, his interviews are a bit, I mean,

they don't, they don't, they don't help him. Uh, cause he comes across as, you know, like whatever he was saying in that interview, he just did confirms what we were all thinking in the tour that he's not a team player. Um, and whenever he works for the team, it's because it's an obligation, but it's not with his full conviction, which, you know, listen, I mean, he's, he's been a winner since, since he stepped on a bike, he's never been used to be a domestique.

He's always been the leader and they've always worked. There's always worked for him. But you also, I mean, okay, he has backed it up because at his young age, he already has incredible performances, but the way the talent is at the top, he's not there. He's not with those guys.

He's not at the level of Jonas. He's not at the level of Tadej. He's not at the level of Remco. And so time goes fast, you know? So we'll see. Yeah. I mean, I do respect it in some way, because if he doesn't believe in himself, who's going to believe in him? And if he wants to be a winner, he's got to think that.

But at the same time, do you remember bagachar giving interviews about how he was going to be better than lance armstrong before he won a grand tour no you didn't you know he just went out and won and you're like wow that was impressive then he just kept winning like at a certain point i want but you know if he wants to be a leader you just got to leave he's got to leave the team like that's that's probably step one he can't stay there I'm sure his contract is fantastic but he should leave speaking of since you brought him up

released his program early program can't be the full program or 2025 I don't see we know he does Fland uh so you know walt and mathieu and matthew pedersen know what they have to do um and then uh liege of

course uh and then the tour uh he says maybe another ground tour depending on the course but that's going to be the vuelta if there's a second ground tour uh in my opinion um the world championships in in in uh where is it in rwanda rwanda yeah rwanda super hard um and whatever else uh I mean, traditional, I mean, you know, in any case, Spencer, you know, when I saw that, I said, okay, now, if you're, if you're in Pulacar shoes, what do you think, you know, how, I mean, how can he better, how can he better what he has done in 2024? It's almost impossible. And I think he'll focus on his main objectives. Of course, the Tour is the most important. It sounds like Milan Sanremo is very, very high on his wishlist.

Difficult race to win for him because he will have to drop everybody in the podio. Maybe he goes on the Cipressa. I don't know. He's not slow either. Normally, if he attacks and there's somebody with him, nobody will pull with him. It's highly likely he would

have to come by himself to the finish, which is possible, but not easy. Milan San Remo. It's going to be interesting. I like it. I like the fact that he does those races, uh, you know, Milan San Remo, Flanders and Diez are probably the three highlights of, of his spring. Um, and then, uh, and then full focus on the Tour de France.

And I'll just list what I, what I see here. So everyone knows. UA Tour, Strada Bianchi, Milano San Remo, E3, Ghent-Wevelgem, Tour of Flanders,

Amstel Gold, Flèche Wallonne, Liège, Dauphiné, Tour, Lombardia. I have to imagine Worlds is probably

going to be included in there. The thing about San Remo, it's fun that he does it. I love it. It's very hard to win for a rider like him. Cause I think even if he sits in like a Philipson's there, Philipson's probably winning this sprint. I actually would like to see him try it, but I also think it's funny. He can just try a different thing every year. You know, like he only needs to win at one time. Like there's not an overwhelming amount of, no one's

sitting around thinking, are we sure Pagaccio is great? Cause he hasn't won Milano San Remo, but it just slots into his like physically, it very close to his house it slots into his training pretty well like he can do it and like he's getting out there getting some exercise getting a nice seven hour ride in on a saturday with his friends like he'd be doing that anyway um it's potentially too easy for a training program that's the only problem is he has to do a harder ride the next day to make up for uh the early parts of san ramo but i can tell you though the way he betters last year to win the double to do flanders ruby win win and then win the tour someone doesn't do it well he's not doing it of i don't think he will but killian kelly he used to work at uh i think, Eurosport and GCN. He had a good point the other day.

He said, Roubaix, and I don't know if these rules apply to Pogacar. I don't know if rules apply to him in general, but Roubaix is the classic that takes the longest to win. It's something like an average of five attempts before someone wins Roubaix. So in theory, if you want to win Roubaix, you should do it as early as possible. I think Sonny Cabrelli did win it on clinchers on the first time he did it. So that does prove that you can do it as early as possible. I think Sonny Cabrelli did win it on clinchers on the first time he did it. So that does prove that you can do it. And Pogacar is good enough. He can probably get away with it, but I mean,

I'm not saying he should do it, but if he wanted to like better last year, it would be the Flanders Rubay double plus the tour. You know, Spencer, you listed the, the, all those races there, you know, my, my first thought is, okay, all these classics, you know, Milan, San Remo, Flanders, Amstel, Flesch, Liege. There's a lot of risk, man, of crashes. True, true, true. He does, of course, ride in the front.

He has a strong team that keeps him in the front, but the risk is always there. It's heavy on the classics. Uh, his program is heavy loaded with classics. So, you know, we all know what happened in the edge, uh, two years ago. Um, I mean, you can't, of course you can't think about that and you can't have fear of crashing. But, um, if you have, I mean, towards the Tour de France, uh, unless the tour is not a priority, but I would have to think that the tour is always a priority. It's, it's easier to prepare and to stay out of trouble with, with a traditional stage rates program rather than a program with classics. Well, that's what we think and say, but where did everyone get hurt last year? The stage race program. Yeah. One, one stage. Yeah.

So I don't know. I mean, yeah, the classics are dangerous. They're probably more predictable though, if you're a big rider, but no, I guess look at van art at dwarves. He was in the front. Um, it's just kind of these chaotic sections in between cobbles so there's risk there for sure but you know you got to do the races he's out here to race he's won the tour three times like it's not i don't think he's thinking if i don't defend my tour title this has been well i mean yeah disaster of a season he wants to tick off tick the boxes right uh but but again the tour is so important uh in in the big scheme that if pogacar wins all these races and doesn't win the tour it's not a success

it's not a success for him it's potentially good for cycling though yeah yeah it would be it would be because then we get like i would assume the only rider to beat him would be jonas like if jonas gets another win pogacar is dominating the one days. That's pretty juicy, actually, as a narrative and as a viewer. That's 3-3 in the last six years. So, I mean, those guys, I have to match one of those guys wins again. But he's going to be doing all this, I think. I think we've confirmed this, but on the new bike, the new Colnago, the Y1R,

I would call it an ultra aero bike they're coming from the v4r which is just aesthetically it's one of my favorite bikes in the peloton it's just kind of like classic simple aesthetics like when you see it in person you think wow i would just like to have that bike the problem with that bike is it's not an aero bike they run the whole team runs deep dish mv wheels like every race which would tell you they're probably trying to make up for the lack of aero bike and they've done testing and realize like we need to run the deepest wheels we can in every race to be on the same level as everybody else but you know it's the bike you would want at home

but i think we start what we're seeing in professional cycling is like these, this YR1 is so funky looking, like it's not really two triangles, not clear to me actually how that's compliant within UCI regulations, but it's going back to basically your era, Johan, like what we saw in the nineties with all these funky road bikes

that kind of like didn't look like road bikes, but were fast. And I assume they've tested this and that it is fast. So we're seeing like a return to the nineties, but kind of what we're seeing is like a decoupling from, I guess it makes sense in theory, like you, Taddei Pagacar should probably ride a different bike than you and I should ride going back to your comfort and safety comments.

Like we probably don't need to ride the same bikes and Colnago can sell us a bike that looks nice and then sell him a bike or give him a bike that's fast. And we're probably seeing that happen here. Yeah. Well, I mean, in the, in, in the case of Colnago, you know, we, we all know that first of all, they didn't have an aero bike. Most of the big brands let the top riders have the option in, in in between uh a normal light climbing bike as i say or a narrow road bike um you know most of the brands have that option colnago didn't have that option uh plus from what i've heard there was some uh unhappiness with some of the

riders that the bike was not one of the best bikes out there. It looks nice. It's the traditional old style Colnago, the, the, what's it called? The V V4R. V4R. Yeah. They need to work on the names here. But, but not, not one of the fastest bikes out there. So imagine if Polaccio gets a fast bike now. It's over.

But I think it was at the request of the riders and also to keep up with the competition. And we don't know how much of those data that we have seen and that they're publishing or marketing and some of the data are right. I'm pretty sure that an aero bike is faster than a road bike. The bike itself is faster. Now, if you look at a rider on the bike, I think things start to change. It's not that much of a difference anymore because the total frontal surface of a

rider on a bike, the bike is really only a small part. But Colnago claims that their new bike is 19% aerodynamically faster than their road bike that they were using. And it's now up par with their strongest competition. They don't specify who that is, but I'm going to suggest it's either Cervelo, the aero bike or, uh, or Canyon probably the aero road bike. Um, I don't dislike it, Spencer. Um, it's, um, I mean, if you look at the geometry, you can say, yeah, okay. There was, there were things in the nineties, in the early nineties that were like this, but they were not as fast.

It was, there was not so much science behind it as there is now. I'm pretty sure that this bike has been tested that, you know, it's been, it's been designed by, I think the designer of the bike is actually somebody who was working for BMC and their arrow bike. the, was it, is it the road machine or the, the, the, the speed machine, whatever the, the, man, it might be speed. I think the time trial bike is the time machine, the road bikes, the road machine, something, but they, they have, they have an arrow. The BMC has a really fast arrow bike. It's the same designer

who, uh, who was working on this. Apparently, he's been working on it for three years. There's the geometry of the bike, of course, but I think the biggest thing is the cockpit, the wing-shaped handlebars. I think that's, I mean, it looks really fancy. The question is, you know, how much marketing is it to sell these bikes? I mean, the bikes are 15, 16,000 euros, I think.

They're not going to sell that many. There's a small pool of people who will buy the bike. But, you know, we'll see, you know, I mean, let's not forget the brand Colnago is now owned by the, the, the shake of, uh, Abu Dhabi. Um, I'm pretty sure in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, uh, there's going to be a lot of cycle tourists from there who will want that bike, uh, because they have the buying power. Um, so yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Um, we'll see. I like it. It's a bit strange at first, but after seeing it a few times, I've now seen a few pictures and videos

of the UAE riders riding it. I think it's fine. I think it's cool. I mean, when you're at the race in person, the UAE bikes looked considerably slower than especially the Cervelo bikes, the Visma bikes. And I guess if Alpecin was running the aero bikes, the aero bikes. But this also just gives them another tool.

You know, like there's nothing like to say mountain stage of the tour. But Gacha doesn't jump on the old B4R. Like it's what Vindigo does. Like sometimes they're on the aero bike Like sometimes they're on the aerobike, sometimes they're on the road bike. I would imagine the mechanics at UAE liked that setup where they all ran the same bike and the same wheels all year long. That was probably a little bit easier, but this just gives them another tool, you know, if it is really fast. And also, you know, there's also the mental aspect, uh, at the end of the day, you know,

it's, it's, it's also a commercial move. Colnago needs to be at the forefront of everything. I've never, I mean, in the last few years, I've not seen any brand launching a new model who has had so much attention than Colnago now with this new bike. It's all over the place during days already. So already that's a win for them, right? But also, you know, I've seen some, I mean, okay,

it maybe was as a joke, but some pro cyclists who said, okay, Bogacar has an aero bike now, cycling is finished. You know, it does have to be a little, I think a lot of those are jokes, but it has to be a little demoralizing actually like, Oh no, he's just going to be faster by himself. That's not good. Yeah. Yeah. In his case, you know, he, he has been doing these tremendous long rates, you know, solo attacks, 70, 80, 100 kilometers out. I mean, if that's on an aero bike.

Yeah. That is a huge help. Like the world championships in particular, that, that escape that would, he would have been helped. The weight, right. I mean, if, if, if they're, if they're Conago, they're they're normal light bikes. If they're like, let's say 6.97 kilos, probably with deep dishes with deep, deep wheels. This one is 7.4, 7.5 kilos. You have to factor in that weight also. It's not always flat, you know? So we'll, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see. But I like i like it i like it i don't know if you've looked

at kalanaga's sales numbers but like whatever whatever this bagacha situation is is working for them like they are like doubling their sales every year um starting in 2020 when he won the tour so if you've ever wondered is this worth it for the bike brands? It apparently is. I know, I know, I know a bike company who had the same kind of thing going on. You know, it was a, it was an American bike company who was on the verge of bankruptcy. This is a little company. 1988, 1989, 98. And then, you know, they won the tour once, twice, three times, seven times, ultimately nine times. Uh,

and reportedly their sales numbers have doubled every single year. And now they're like, uh, almost, uh, you know, multi-billion company. So it seems to work. If you have a rider, a good, uh, top rider winning, winning the biggest races in the world on your bike yeah it definitely works i i was a victim of that i bought one of those american bikes when i was a kid because i saw someone winning the tour on them rimco evanipol we we talked about his he had a crash the dooring of the van i kind of thought he'll be back training pretty fast this is some quotes from rimco recently that they stuck

out to me this is rimco talking starting now i'm not allowed to do anything for a good month evan apple said on january 6th i have another scan to see if everything is growing together properly only then can we drop a new plan i hope to be back on the bike in early february so that that is significant time off the bike. Yeah. Okay. That's an official statement. Um, I can understand that, but let me tell you any pro cyclist, Spencer, any pro cyclists, as soon as they can move their legs, it doesn't matter what happens up here from, from, from the, from the chest up, if their hips are okay and their legs are okay they're going to be turning their their legs on a bicycle let me tell you even if it's sitting down in the sofa on one of those he's

gonna write let me tell you that's just in their dna so not worried about that he also might if we're reading he might be leaving something out like i hope to be back on the bike might mean like i hope to be back outside training normally. Like, you know, who knows, like, is he really not on the trainer?

I don't know if I believe that, but it does put the age best on the age and the question. And then most importantly, probably bins, the Giro d'Italia attempt that we like is that could really hurt his preparation. I think, I don't know if that ever was,

if that ever was a plan. I think he's going to keep going for the tour and try to improve there. But we all know, I mean, listen, I think it's better. It's, it's actually better for his peace of mind also to set certain goals that are like, and not in a, not in a distant future, but not in the, in the immediate future. And then, you know, whatever happens, he's going to heal faster than normal, than any normal person.

Then every time it's a little win, you know? So I think the most important is that the injuries he has will not be, you know, will not be felt in in the future he's gonna get he's gonna come back I'm pretty confident of that I mean and this is just assuming he's not too sad about the news of Patrick Lefevre stepping down

as CEO of the Sudol Quickset team will Evanable even have the will to continue I was actually taken I was really caught off guard by this, but the COO, Juergen Foray, will take over the role of CEO that Lefebvre has had for over 20 years,

20 years, and then Lefebvre is going into an honorary board member position. A lot longer than 20 years. I think 20 years with Quickstep, but Patrick Lefebvre, let's not forget, first of all, Patrick Lefevre was a professional cyclist. He was pretty good as a young cyclist, retired really early. I think probably like 26, 27 years old and became a sports director straight away.

He was the youngest, one of the youngest, I think when he was 28 or 29, and became a sports director straight away. He was the youngest, one of the youngest, I think when he was 28 or 29, he was a sport director already. Um, and I know this story because he's from my area. And, uh, there were some writers that were one of the writers that I looked up to was, was, uh, was Patrick was my trainer and my mentor, uh, was on a team, which was actually directed by Patrick Lefebvre back then. Um, so he's been, uh, I mean, let's say if it's, he's almost 70, right? Yeah. Almost 70.

I think he turned 70. So it's over, it's more than 40. It's, I think it's 42 years that he's been a sport director. So it, that it did, it did come as a surprise because there was no signs of it, but at the same time, I think it's been, it's been a really,

really nice ride for him. You know, I've seen some stats, almost a thousand victories in total of all his teams. 19 world champions, I think. I don't know how many monuments. I mean, I forgot the numbers now, but I think

it's a nice way. I think it's a nice way for him to leave. And listen, when you're almost 70 years old, I can understand that you don't want to deal with the day-to-day hassle of managing a team. If you think about the professional team and the women's team, there are more than 100 people, if not more, that you're responsible for. And so he steps down as the CEO, correct? He is, was a co-owner of the team. I don't know if that's still the case, but you know, he will stay involved. And you know, I wanted to

say, you know, first of all, I want to congratulate Patrick personally on, on his amazing career. And you know, it's, I mean, if you have been such a long time around and you see all these accomplishments, it's, it's actually crazy. To see those numbers. But, but I would like to mention one thing, you know, and we all know Patrick has been very outspoken about certain things. He always had a strong opinion. Sometimes, uh, you know, didn't have a filter, um, in his columns, sometimes said things that would, you know, sometimes a bit offensive, maybe sometimes taken out of context. Uh, anyways, uh, if you look at

all the reactions and the comments of ex cyclists, big champions, ex staff members and staff members that were, or are still on the team. I have not seen one single negative comment about Patrick. They are, they're all full of praise, admiration, respect.

So, you know, he may have been painted as, you know, this, this bullish person who always spoke painted as, uh, you know, this, this bullish, uh, person who always spoke his mind. But, uh, I know for a fact that there's a tremendous amount of respect and I think that

there's no better tribute, uh, to what a person is and what, what he has been for, for, uh, the sport and for his teams, then all these comments, these super nice comments of respect and congratulations that we're seeing. Uh, I just wanted to mention that because, you know, he's been pictured as a bad guy and, you know, a lot of people, a lot of bitter haters were kind of low insulting him and, and wishing him bad, uh, him bad and really not nice.

But if you see all the comments, I think it speaks for itself. Nobody of all these critics knows exactly who the person Patrick Lefevre is. And all these comments speak for themselves, I think. So I just wanted to mention that. Yeah, people that work for the guy love him. The only, to expand on that like he's kind of held the team together with his force of personality does this hurt their ability like i don't like think of all these sponsors they're like local belgian sponsors that i'm sure he has a relationship with are those held in place

even with him stepping back from the day-to-day stuff? Well, you know, I mean, I think that's also one of the reasons that he will kind of stay involved a little bit in the background because his team has been built on relationships and those relationships, uh, or Patrick Lefebvre's relationships. Um, I think, uh, I'm not worried for the continuity of the team. Um've seen the declarations of Bakala, who has committed publicly to keep funding the team in the future. And let's not forget, they have one special card, which is not an insignificant one. It's Remco Evenepoel.

There's a lot of people and a lot of sponsors who want to be associated with the rider and the image of Remco Evenepoel. You know, there's a lot of people and a lot of sponsors who want to be associated with the rider and the image of Remco Evenepoel. Yeah, I mean, they had a pretty, actually pretty good situation going last year. I feel like they,

it was rocky when they were, you know, the classics team, the classic superstars, probably just financially that got a little bit too difficult. A lot of those riders aged out and they kind of had a few rocky years. And then last year was the first year where I really felt like they've built

this nice little program around Evan, a pole, you know, like they're supporting them well in the grand tours. He's, he can win one days like Pilly one days. Like I think he, is he doing, I guess he's not going to do it now. He did kind of flirt with the idea of even like Flanders, which I think he could be pretty good at if he wanted to. So they've got a versatile star rider. It's a good situation.

But on that note, team training camps underway, Johan, all in like one region of Spain. Just before we get into questions, can you explain to us why this happens? Why are they all in the same place? Yeah, well, I read somewhere, I mean, that there's

i mean i don't know if it's true or not but it seems a lot but 16 of the 18 world tour teams or currently or will be in the next weeks in the area of the costa del sol which is uh southeast of spain um you know and um i think it's for one reason. First of all, it's become a habit. Logistically, it's quite easy to get to Spain because, you know, if you do team training camps, you have to get the staff, you have to get the vehicles, the buses, the trucks, cars. So that's number one. Secondly, it's an area which after, you know, in the last 20 years has gradually been

growing and accommodating, uh, cyclo tourism. It's catering for cyclists. It's crazy how much, even if the professionals are not there, it's unbelievable how many, how many, I'm actually going next week for four days to, uh, to Calpe Benissape Benissa with my son and two of his friends. So we're going to see a lot of cyclists. But I think the most important reason is that statistically that area, if you look on the map from Valencia down to Alicante, that area statistically is the best in terms of weather. Uh, it's constantly between 15 and 22 degrees and quite stable. And if it, if it's bad weather there, it's bad weather

in the rest of Europe. Um, and, uh, and so I think that plus, plus the roads, the roads are amazing. Uh, there's, there's a bit of everything you can ride on the flats you can you can have some climbing not super super hard climbs but you know hard enough for the beginning of the season um so i think that's that's the reason and and also that uh you know people cycling and cyclists on the road it's part of the natural habitat of that of that area it's it's just part of it you know yeah i mean i'm looking at the weather now it's like every day is like 18 degrees to 9 degrees that's like 60 mid 60s to high 40s in fahrenheit and i'd also imagine quite a quite dry and be quite empty in the wintertime like that's too cold probably to be like on a beach holiday. No, no, you can't go to them. It's not, it's not, not,

not beach weather right now, but, uh, it's not super busy. Um, so, you know, once you get away from the coast and inland, you can ride for hours and hours and then not see anybody. Uh, plus, you know, now, now everybody already knows. Um, I mean, I mean, I lived there, I lived there in the, in the early nineties. I lived there for like almost 10 years. Um, and, um, back then it was not, I mean, it was popular, but not, not as now, now it's really overwhelming.

And it's also because there's so many businesses that have been going there, bike shops, cafes, you know, lots of, a lot of businesses that are actually specifically catering for, for cyclists. Uh, and of course, you know, if the professional teams go there or go there, uh, you know, the cyclo tourists and the cyclists wannabes, they all want to go there too. So everybody's there. Yeah. When you're on a cycling trip or just in europe to ride it is nice when there's infrastructure like plugged in around that it makes it so much easier um also let's not forget another thing i forgot to mention and not that it really it does matter for teams

also because you know if you have to move the whole team and it's like 60 60 people the prices it's not. It's not expensive now in this time of the year. Do you want to guess where Bora is doing that training camp? German team? I'm going to say Mallorca. Yeah, Mallorca. But that seems to be not as in vogue, I guess.

It's probably more expensive, rains more. It still is. It's also amazing. It's more or less the same climate, but the weather can change a bit more because it's an island. So it's kind of more variable than on the land.

But actually, I'm going there the first week of January, so I may see them too. Yeah. I'm going there the first week of January, so I may see them too. Yeah. I'm going to my private training camps. You might be joining the team next year. This is a big reveal. So we'll get into a few questions.

Info at wedo.team if you want them answered. They're kind of building up, so we're not going to get to all of them. But we do have a plan over the holidays to have a few episodes where we just rip through a bunch of them and hopefully get that balance back down um just before we do that though i forgot to mention this on pagacha's new bike aero bike important because in the last two years 12 of the 13 biggest one-day races have been won by solo attacks by the winner so looking at that data you'd say maybe i should get on a pretty aero bike for some of these one-day races because i'm probably going to win it solo first question so first question the uh i just wanted to clear something up i got

a few responses saying that ineos did not race pitcock at lombardia because they didn't want his points to go to q36.5 that can't be true because points no longer go with the writer there with that, which whatever team the writer scored the points for, which makes more sense than the old one. No, the writer doesn't take the points to a new team. The points stay with the team. The writer was on when he got the result. Yeah.

Which is, I can't believe it was actually ever different than that. That was wild. But first question from Thomas and Luxembourg is, I can't believe it was actually ever different than that. That was wild. But first question from Thomas in Luxembourg. This is kind of a goofy out there question, but I thought it was worth reading. Thanks for the podcast, your credible insightfulness. Just a quick exercise. What, just a thought exercise.

What legally or otherwise is keeping WorldTour teams from colluding to fund Tadej Pogacar's retirement? Based on your commentary on Tadej's 200 million euro buyout clause with UAE, couldn't teams pool together the capital and approach Tadej directly and have him just retire? At some level, Tadej has to walk away. He has a walkaway price, but even if he doesn't, would the current structure in cycling allow this contract? Probably would. It's funny that we're even taught that he's so good that this is where we're

at teams colluding together to pay him to go away. We're going to happen. That's that's that. Yeah. I, I can't see the sense of that question, but you know, a part of a part of, you know, the money he makes Spencer, these guys don't race primarily for the money you know they they race because they're racers and they want to win and they want to you know they they have their ego and they want to you know beat their rivals of course you know when you're when you're at a certain level and you want to make good money and uh and then you know as much as possible

but um but no no that's never going to happen. It's funny to think like Red Bull paying him $200 million to have like a middle management position at Red Bull and not race. But I guess to even like entertain it seriously, it starts to become problematic because what is the value of, let's say Pogacar did, he took a job at Red Bull for $200 million and just like worked in the office there. And then Primoz Roglic is winning the tour. The problem with that is what's the value of him continuing to just be amazing and become like a sporting icon in Slovenia. Like think of your, your friend, Eddie Merckx, you know, I mean, that guy's like still dining

out on his sporting exploits. Like there's such a long tail when you're such a good accomplished athlete like that. Like Michael Jordan has had a second career where he's made far more money than he ever made playing basketball. So it actually would be hard to quantify. I feel like harder than you'd think. And he's probably better off just sticking around and racing. Second and last question for the day from Maxine in Belgium I was having trouble

remembering if I read this or not so apologies if I don't think this is a repeat but it's good that I was so good I was willing to risk it there's been some talk about Remco leaving Quickstep in the case of Remco changing teams for example to Ennios or Red Bull are you sure that he would be their sole or main leader for stage races? He is, of course, an incredibly talented rider, but is he better enough than the current leaders of those teams to be their undisputed leader? And if Remco is sufficiently comfortable

to go head-to-head with Carlos Rodriguez or Primoz Roglic, and is he sufficiently comfortable to go head-to-head with Carlos Rodriguez or Primoz Roglic for team leadership in a Grand Tour? Yeah, we had this question already, Spencer. Well, I think I asked it to you just privately. Oh, maybe, maybe.

I think, well, if he would go to Ineos, yes, he would be the sole leader. There's nobody, not even Bernal or Brian Thomas or Carlos Rodriguez, who's at the level of Remco, in my opinion, or has the potential. And if he goes to Red Bull Bora, then, you know, there's Primoz, but Primoz would not be for whatever the time of the contract, because if Remco goes somewhere else, I would imagine it's for three years minimum. And Primoz,

although they stick, they seem to say that Primoz is still improving and is producing better numbers than in the past. I think we've seen the best Primoz Roglic already and whatever Primoz improves, the rest is also going to improve on. So he would have to share leadership with Primoz Roglic at first at Red Bull and then become the sole leader.

But yeah, I mean, I think right now it looks like Remco is staying put with Sudok-Wikstep. So no, I mean, but yeah, if he goes to Eneos, he would be the sole leader. And if he goes to Red Bull, Bora, initially he would have to share it and then become the sole leader

afterwards. Yeah. And I do, I, it's an interesting question because it was like, we're all assuming he's better than them, but is he better enough to get rid of the problems? I think the main problem would have been this year like

him and primos imagine them at like the vuelta this year like that would be a mess but since he's like quicks up this year primos cannot be good this this good forever and i even think you saw him maybe succumbing to some sort of age related decline this year. So in 2026, well, let's, let's, let's have a, first of all, let's try to have a season that Primo stays on his bike and it's not on the floor. That would be a good start to see. Well, that is, that is how people usually athletes start to decline. Not because it's like people think they just get old and they can no longer move. It's the injuries start to stack up and you can't train as consistently as you would like to or you used to.

And then you decline because of that. So those injuries will start to catch up to him if he keeps crashing like that. Speaking of injuries, and then you've mentioned him before, Eddie Merckx. I just want to take the opportunity to wish Eddie Merckx all the best for people who have been following the news.

So he had a crash while he was out on his bike in Belgium and unfortunately broke his hip. Eddie is in his late 70s now. So it's amazing that he's still riding on uh, on his own, by the way, uh, out there in Belgium, uh, at the moment of the crash. And, um, fortunately, I mean, uh, it all went well. He had to have surgery instead of repairing the fracture. They put an artificial hip. Um, and, um, I, you know, I spoke to him, um, by message and he said that everything was fine.

He was, uh, he had surgery, I think on Monday or Tuesday and the day at the day after he walked out of the hospital on crutches, but he walked out of the hospital. So also, uh, still a champion in that, in that way. And so I wish him all the best and, uh, sure. He's going to recover pretty soon. And, um, he's for for sure gonna go on his bike again i i hope with with with company that's the only thing i worry about i don't want eddie out there by himself i told him i said eddie please go go you know there's so many people who who

want to ride with you just go with someone you know so i mean he didn't respond to that uh but uh but i'm pretty sure he's gonna be careful i mean it was you know it's not because he wasn't careful it was just an unfortunate crash but uh yeah i mean it was uh when of course in belgium it was big news uh it was all over over the news and on tv but um he actually got surgery. The surgeon who operated him was the same who operated Remco. Very famous. Yeah. It's, it's this like same orthopedics clinic that every cyclist seems to go to. Yeah. I might, I might hit this up for my next surgery, but this, we were at our time.

There is a question, right? My line of sight that is going to be really fast answer. I just want to get out of the way. So David wrote in basically asking how did the world championships end up in Rwanda and what are the extra logistics for the team? I think we can just quickly answer the first part of that and say, they paid a bunch of money. That's how you get the world championships. You go to the UCI,

you say we're going to pay you a whole bunch of money and you're going to have the world championships here. There's more to that. There's more to that than, than just that than than just that but uh you know if you look at uh when the world championships first of all is the event owned by the uci um let's not forget there's a lot of politics involved and uh in term in terms of election or re-election or even election for another position. In this case, we all know that La Partienne is supposed to run for presidency of the IOC. Don't be surprised that it had a big impact also in having the biggest event in cycling in Africa, because there's a lot of federations in Africa who have votes, not just for cycling, but also for all other sports. And Labrador is a master at lobbying

for whatever he wants to accomplish. So I'm pretty sure that a part of the money, there's another thinking behind the fact that the world championships are in Africa for the first time in history. And I think it's nice. Um, but, uh, it's not the first country you would think of, uh, if you think about having the world championship somewhere. Um, and logistically, I mean, it's not that big of a deal because it's with federations and of course, everything is going to be provided by the country. I mean, they're not going to go

there the belgians are not going to go there with their cars it's going to be all provided by the organization so but uh but yeah there's i think it's it's it's it's twofold it's it's financial and it's political um this actually could get like tricky for like i know when the worlds were in australia like i know riders on the on the men's team at least for the road race i had to fly themselves there like on their own dime so like if it's tougher if it's a far away like if you're an american rider you're probably paying your own way but and we should say the uci most of their budget comes from the world championships and the olympics like that's how they continue to pay the bills. So it is. And China, that Chinese race tour of Guangxi. Yeah.

So they have to go far afield to find, you can't just keep going, but you can't say like Omberg, you want to host worlds? Like you got to go like further afield to find new customers basically. I, yeah. I mean, I'm kind of curious though that you mentioned it like if you're south africa the south african olympic federation are you like that's awesome man that you did the worlds in rwanda like does africa really vote as a block like that or are they like why don't you do it in my country oh no no there's different federations and i don't exactly know how it works, but, uh, um, that's, they have a heavy, uh, heavyweight, uh, Africa and also, uh,

um, I'm going to say the Caribbean, the Caribbean is also, I mean, interesting. Yeah. Uh, if you look, we just have to look where the presidents of the federations are now and then, you know, if you follow their trajectory, you know what they're going to do. They're going to go for votes. They're going to get votes. And Rwanda has like a really ambitious government. So they like they really want this. I I'm shocked that it's never been in Morocco. That'd be the slam dunk. Like it's it's very close. Good terrain. But I guess they're not, they're not interested in shelling out for that, but thanks Johan. And do you have anything else to add before we take off? Nope. That's it.

All right. We'll be back next Friday and we hope that no big news breaks, like right after we finish recording this, like last week. Thanks Spencer. Talk to you later.