THEMOVE - What Happened To One Cycling Themove

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Spencer Martin and Johan Bruyneel break down the latest news in professional cycling, including checking in on the current state of the One Cycling project, which seemed primed to disrupt the professional cycling landscape before going dark earlier this year, why teams are pushing back against a potential budget cap, if Jonas Vingegaard can, and should, tackle both the Giro d'Italia and Tour de France, before taking a few listener questions from the live Members' chat. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Bubs Naturals: Live Better Longer! For a limited time only, our listeners are getting 20% OFF at BUBS Naturals by using code WEDU at checkout. Just head to https://www.bubsnaturals.com and use code WEDU and you're all set. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support our show and tell them our show sent you. Huel: Huel makes healthy eating simple. They also just launched into Target stores nationwide! Try both products today with FIFTEEN PERCENT off your purchase for New Customers with our exclusive code THEMOVE at https://www.huel.com/THEMOVE Hims: Start your free online visit today at https://hims.com/themove for your personalized hair loss treatment options. Results vary. Based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. Prescription products require an online consultation with a healthcare provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate.  Gusto: Try Gusto today at https://gusto.com/THEMOVE, and get three months free when you run your first payroll.

The problem with cycling is that since you are on open roads, you're on roads, you need the approval of the authorities. The authorities only deal with other authorities, federations. You know, for example, it's easy to organ. I mean, Cyclercross, for example, could perfectly be independent of the UCI. You don't need the UCI for cyclocross at all because it's on a closed field. You're your own boss. Yeah. Now you can do whatever you want, right?

mountain bike, same thing, right? Road racing is different. Gravel to, you know, to a certain extent. I mean, I guess they have to crossroads and you need some kind of authority, I mean, police control. But you could basically do that also with, I don't know, with local. I think that's what a lot of times is what they do. It's volunteers out there. Exactly. Yeah.

But, you know, as we all know, you know, my favorite federation in the world, the UCI, They are, whenever they see something, they, with cycling, they jump on it. And, you know, they want to own it. Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Brunel. I'm coming from central London today. Johan, your former home favorite town.

I was just in Spain. I missed you, but we'll be back. I might be back. You were in Mallorca, no? I was in myork. I mean, you go from one island to the other island. I know. I was just thinking that yesterday on the plane.

Island hopping. You would say maybe one has slightly better weather than the other. I'm sitting here. I can hear the ring coming through the window behind me. But we're going to get through a few news topics of the week as well as listener questions that have come into info at we do. If you have a question, you want covered, send it to that email address. But Johan, first, let's hear from a few sponsors of the show and then we'll get into it.

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And you can get it today with 15% off your purchase for new customers with exclusive of code the move at huel.com slash the move that's h ueel.com slash the move all right yohan back to the show the first thing i wanted to ask you about today i was on the plane yesterday just just going through my memories going through my mind thinking you know what was a big deal that we've not heard of for a long time one cycling what happened to this project and what it was going to revolutionize the sport, where do we stand with that? Yeah, well, it's unclear, Spencer. It's true.

It's been quiet for a while, which, you know, doesn't necessarily mean that nothing's happening. I think projects like this, initiatives like this, especially when it's, you know, very likely to disrupt the system and make some really unhappy parties amongst them, probably UCI, ASO, some organizers. I don't have the details, but I have spoken to someone two days ago, three days ago. And somebody who's close to the project, and he confirmed to me that it's still very much alive, that the Saudis, so it's the public investment fund, PIF. And one of their sub-companies is called Serge, which I think is one of the companies that takes care of sporting projects. They are very determined to make it happen. And what did he say again?

He said, it's, you know, it's, he talked to me about, you know, an indefinite amount of money that they're ready to throw against it. So his words are this is going to happen. This is going to happen in one way or another. Now, I don't think, I mean, if. I mean, what I think personally, Spencer, the way I have seen projects like this in the past, because there has been initiatives like this, they all, you know, more or less have the same principles, is that if it's the teams who have to be in the driving seat, it's not going to happen.

It's not going to happen. There's too much different interest. There's too much rivalry. There's too much lack of trust amongst the teams. And that's exactly what the, you know, strong parties like UCI and ASO have always played with. You know, they said, you know, what? Do whatever you want, guys. We know that you guys are going to mess it up by yourselves.

So this is. And on top of that, you know, a project like that takes time, you know, it takes three, four, five years to solidify. And I think that, you know, the UCI and ASO, to name the two strong parties within cycling, know that nobody has the power or the luxury to, they constantly need to look for new sponsorship. So they are vulnerable and fragile. So whoever is in the driving seat, because, you know, we've seen many times that it was Visma, who was at the initiative and Richard Plugga was, you know,

basically the initiative man of the company once cycling. But, you know, no matter how strong Visma is right now, they are constantly struggling for survival because they need to renew every two, three years. They need to fight for the riders to keep their riders. Writers go. And so it needs, you know, The teams cannot be in the driver's seat.

They can be participants to the project, but it needs to be a strong unit. And I think that this company's search or PIF is probably a party that they have a lot of power. They have a lot of money and they can force the other parties to the table. You know, I don't have the details of what's going to happen. but last time we checked, I think, that RCS was part of the project, and Flanders Classics was part of the project. So it's basically just the ASO. If ASO gets to the table, then it's going to happen.

So I think ultimately it's going to happen at some point. It's not because it's been quiet that things haven't been happening behind the scenes. So I still think one cycling is a real thing. And how just help us visualize this. So one cycling comes about like, what is it? Is it, are the races different?

Are the races the same? Is it just backroom support for existing races to help them pool resources and kind of increase revenue from things that are already happening? Yeah, I think, I think, I mean, listen, any,

any project like this, any initiative, it all comes down to the redistribution of the revenue in the sport. And so I think the main principle is to increase the revenue so that the ones who are the powers now, mainly ASO, earns the same or a bit more. And then whatever is on top of it gets divided amongst the other parties, mainly the teams you know and and i think it's it's the idea is to really have the best riders in the

best races always racing against each other it comes down to that i think i think cycling is a sport where the calendar is so broad that you mean you could have i mean theoretically you can have the three best riders in the in the sport not racing once against each other during the whole season if they were yeah yeah so that's that makes no sense, right? So I think it's to unify, simplify and make sure that it's a unified format that people can understand because, you know, cycling fans of obviously understand the sport, but, you know, to make cycling, to do that cycling survive in the climate that we have right now with the competition of a lot of other sports and a lot of other non-sporting distractions

for people, because at the end of the day, it's entertainment also for people, right? I think we need to go to a formula where it's simplified and unified and that we have a format which is simple, understandable, with always the best champions facing each other. It's fine. I know you're not a gravel man yourself. And probably a lot of our listeners don't know or follow gravel. But it's as you were talking, you know, because there was gravel races that existed like unbound gravel, big race, the biggest probably. And then Lifetime, which is a company, like a gym company, basically, they own high-end gyms, came in, created the Lifetime Grand Prix, which is a series of races where there's like a season-long points and you get a lot of money if you finish high up. And they kind of came in and plugged in.

They owned some of the races, but they plugged into existing events. Like I think they bought Unbound, but they don't own like one of them in Wisconsin, which I won't even try to say the name up because it's so hard to pronounce. But it's been going on for a long time. And they just kind of plugged into it. And then you know if you follow this Grand Prix that the top gravel riders will be at all these races. And whatever you think about gravel, it does kind of present a nice, digestible season-long narrative. And you can just kind of watch it. You know the top riders will be there.

Yeah. Whatever we think about the cycling calendar, we probably need a little bit more optimization, I would think. Yeah. Because it's currently. You mentioned gravel, Spencer. think I think the difference right now is with gravel is that, you know, there's no power party yet. There's nobody who owns the scene yet.

I mean, you can today organize the biggest gravel event of the season without being part of the UCI, you know, and that it's, you could do that, right? Yeah. I mean, I guess is what they did basically. Yeah. with unbound like that's totally separate. Of course, I think I think here the difference is with gravel is it's on it's off road. It's on unpaved roads.

So you do not need to deal. I mean to a lesser extent. Well, I think they're all open roads. Now that you mention it. With the authorities, you know, traffic control. I mean, it's the the problem with cycling. I mean, the problem, the problem with cycling is that since you are on open roads, you're on roads, you need the approval of.

of the authorities. The authorities only deal with other authorities, federations. You know, for example, it's easy to organ. I mean, cyclocross, for example, could perfectly be independent of the UCI. You don't need the UCI for cyclocross at all because it's on a closed field. You're your own boss. Yeah. You can do whatever you want, right?

Mountain bike. Same thing, right? Road racing is different. Gravel to, you know, to a certain extent. I mean, I guess they have to crossroads and you need some kind of authority, I mean, police control. But you could basically do that also with, I don't know, with local. I think that's what a lot of times is what they do. It's volunteers out there.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But, you know, as we all know, my favorite federation in the world, the UCI, they are, whenever they see something with cycling, they jump on it. and they want to own it. So now they own gravel or they want to own gravel. They own cycle cross. They own mountain bike. Or at least they have their circuit, right? That doesn't mean that you can organize races out of the UCI,

which gravel is a perfect example. So yeah. But yeah, for one cycling, you know, it's road cycling. So you have to deal with the UCI. I personally think that the Saudis are probably not that worried about the UCI. They're more worried about ASO because they have such a monopoly on the calendar. But as I said, you know, it's going to come to a point where they force those parties to the table. And they, I think I said it in another podcast, you know, they will push and push and push.

until somebody bends over and says, okay, where do I sign? Yeah, which actually could often be the right decision. But I can't remember. I was talking to someone who knows a lot about cycling and was poo-pooing the idea that it could ever be optimized. It is what it is. You can't turn it into a business that makes sense for someone like the Saudis or Liberty Media, anybody that would want to be involved. But you've been to the Twitter, Francio on.

there's definitely room for it if you went to like every major world sporting event and then went to the tour of friends you'd say this is the least commodified and in some ways that's like charming and nice but even just think about a mountaintop finish it's like so you just you'll all just go up there and then it's like that's going to take you hours to leave and you can't buy any food or drink the entire time it's i know people bristle at it but there are ways to oh yeah i mean it's Spencer, it exists already. I mean, just for, you know, go to the Tour of Flanders. Yeah, exactly.

Go to the Tour of Flanders. You know, Walter von den Haute, who is the CEO of Flanders classics owner of all these races, has, you know, disturbed the system a few years ago, you know, and it was also all it could not be done, you know, because initially, I mean, it was always the Tour of Flanders was, you know, the last two climbs were the Mure of Gerosberg and the Bosberg and they finished in Meirpeke. over traditionally and walter said okay we're going to change this we're going to do local laps in the in the final around aude we have three times the the the quartermont two times the

the what's the last climb again i mean uh wait the powderberg the part i can't believe i know that i that's that's a sin that's a sin well they did change the i guess they changed the route the last climb was always i mean it's not okay so two three times quardomont two times Butterberg, you know, the, in that loop of those last three loops, there's one bigger one and then two smaller ones, that's how you can make a business out of cycling and the Muir of Geras back. And it was, it was a travesty, you know, in Belgium. Oh, you know, you cannot do this. The Mure. The Mure is not anymore in the Tour of Flanders. Nobody cares. And nobody cares. And nobody cares because it's, it's so much better now. Yeah. Initially, I would also say,

what, what the hell is he doing? You know, I mean, it's been, and he had the guy. to push forward. And it's amazing what he did with this, with this. So it can be done, you know. I think Tour de Flanders is the example of how cycling can be run as a profitable business. I mean, obviously Tour de France is also a profitable business. But Tour de Flanders back in the days was free for everybody. And it's still free, whatever you want to go, except on those places where you can't go.

And if you want to go, you have to pay. and it's amazing it's sold out i mean as soon as the tour of flanders finishes it's sold out for the year after it's crazy yeah they are great i think thomas van den spegel yeah he's the CEO of flanders classic i mean walter is the owner a founder uh of flanders classics but thomas is the the one who's running it yeah i'm gonna see him tomorrow i'm gonna bring this up to him But you will not miss him, because he's ex-basketball player, huge. I mean, yeah. He probably has one of the biggest bike frames known in cycling.

And does he have to have that custom made? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would imagine. Yeah. Ask Thomas if he has built his Eddie Marks frame already. All right. I don't ask. Actually, I think he did actually because I saw, I saw an Eddie, a huge Eddie Mark's frame on, on, I don't know, one of those vintage pages.

And I sent it to him and he said, okay, I want this. So he bought the frame. He bought the frame and then had it built one of the biggest Eddie Marks frames ever made. He owns it in the Motorola colors. That's cool. He, I'd never met the guy. And he, yeah, my son is like practicing his post-ups. He's like, like, for race, five years old, but he's practicing like posting.

up and he was doing it in the driveway, but before he crossed the finish line, and then Thomas sent me a direct message saying to not let him become like Julian Al-Falip, celebrating too early and losing races because of it. But we, I can't remember if this is a private conversation or on the podcast, but I was saying, well, why does ASO care at all about the Twitter friends? Like, it'd be like the masters. They don't care about anybody. Like, they're not part of the PGA. They're just doing their own thing. And you were saying there is potentially a complication with the. road closures in the French government if you're not sanctioned by the UCI.

Yeah, I mean, that's, yeah, usually that's the way it works. But, I mean, listen, ASO has the power. They could, ASO could perfectly function without the UCI. I mean, the UCI would probably say, okay, you know what? I mean, everybody who participates in the Tour de France will be banned. It's not going to happen. I mean, everybody's going to go to the Tour de France. If today you let you have writers and teams, you have two choices.

Either you side with UCI or you side with ASO. 99% of everybody is going to side the ASO. Because imagine this conversation. You go to your sponsors, you say. So you guys are giving us 20 million euros a year. We're not going to do the tour to France because we need to do. do all we need to do the tour of Guangji what if the UCI bands us from that you know we're not going to do the tour we're not going to do pari dube we're not going to do toulogne we're not going to do

paris uh but we'll do the world championships which by the way we're not going to wear your jersey exactly okay so well of guangji world championships and uh tour de suisse somehow which is shrinking by the day do you see this it's five stages now yeah they did they put it down to five stages yeah it's yeah i don't understand why i well they're an independent race i believe one of the rare yeah they're becoming fewer and fewer and i guess it shows you how you're getting squeezed if you're not part of one of the three big race organizers yeah did you see this i feel like david levin you've seen this you seen this gone but david lapartian great friend of this podcast said uci president said that he tried to implement a budget cap

in professional cycling and the teams voted against it? I don't know if I'll read his quote. We considered implementing a budget cap for all the teams and the teams didn't accept it. I was surprised that it was mostly the smaller teams that refused. I think it's wrong. I think they're wrong because it seems necessary to level the playing field. That seems like a correct statement, but why would the smaller teams reject a budget cap? And did this really happen?

We don't know. We don't know how. I will, I will investigate. I'll find out what the situation is on, on what the team's position is on, I mean, I'm not supposed to talk to them because, you know, I'm banned. I'm, I don't know. Yeah, it's like you meet someone at a 7-Eleven. You can't have a conversation with them.

My good friend, David, doesn't want me to talk to team owners or team managers, but I'll talk to them and I'll find out. Yeah, I mean, the budget cap. I don't know if cycling is ready for this, you know. If it's just, I mean, listen, this is not a sport which is thriving and have to, you know, that sponsors are overflowing the sport. You know, every this people, I mean, this team is disappearing once again this year, two teams. You know, we have we have Archaea disappearing, no sponsor. We have Intermarche disappearing, you know, no sponsor or no extra sponsor in financial trouble. Probably total energies.

Next year, total energies. Well, total energies has changed towards Ineos. So I don't think that cycling right now is wealthy enough to implement a budget cap. Because it's true right now. I think that there's two or three teams that have amazing budgets and other teams are struggling. But I think in the long run, if you look at this over 10, 15 years, it's going to you know, increase the level of, of sponsor. I mean, like, right now, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're.

If you, if you, if, if you go 10 years ago, 10, 15 years ago, you're 25 million. You were the king. Well, I guess no, but we should qualify that. You're either nobody or you're very specific. Yeah. Uno, you know, you know, one. No X, very specific. Alpacin, yeah. You can't compete across the portfolio with that amount of money. Yeah.

So I think it's what usually happens. You know, I mean, it's a trend that's ongoing. I mean, it's the same with the salaries of the riders. There's been writers who have been, you know, have been paid a lot of money, two or three guys. But, you know, now there's probably 20 guys who are, who have huge salaries. whereas five years ago there maybe three or four. So, you know, I think it's cycling right now, in my opinion, is financially not ready and not abundant enough financially to increase the salary cap. Yeah, I do kind of agree.

Implement the salary cap, sorry. Yeah. And then La Pardtien, we should say, his fix. The legal framework for this would be difficult, by the way. Well, La Partiana is a socialist. You know, he's, I mean, he's a camouflage socialist. You know, he's a capitalist himself, but he wants socialism amongst his, you know, the people he rules about it. So, well, speaking of socialism, I actually think this is a good idea in a lot of sports.

He's saying with the budget cap, if you exceed the limit, you pay a tax, it's not a hard cap. This is the U.S. has two types of caps for sports teams. like the NFL is a hard cap and it is like completely socialist you share all your revenue with all the teams but other sports in the u.s it's a little bit softer and if you exceed the cap you pay double so if you're over a hundred million in salary if you go to 105 you pay five to tatea pagachar just picking a random rider and then you pay double so you pay another five to the teams that have not exceeded the cap. So then you have the richer teams subsidizing the poorer teams who are staying under the cap.

That's probably what they would try to do. But as you say, it does not feel, maybe I need to sit down and write a dissertation on this. It does not feel firm enough at the base to start putting in a budget cap. No. If that makes sense. Yeah. No. Well, let's take a quick ad break.

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So try Gusto today at gusto.com slash the move and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months free of payroll at gusto.com slash the move. G-U-S-T-O dot com slash the move. All right, Johan, we are back. Spencer, Spencer, before we go into the other topics we forgot the event a been of the week the event of the week uh if not the if not the year the yeah let's say the event of the offseason um our straba battle i have taken advantage of you uh being overseas you would think being a majorco i would help me

but i didn't ride it all there it's short and you know so i have just checked this morning And we'll put the picture up here, Gabriel can put it up. But I am now eight kilometers ahead of you. Spencer Martin, 10,785 kilometers. Your Humboldened Hill, yours truly 10,793 kilometers. So I'm pretty proud of that. I mean, it's actually unbelievable. So we have almost the exact amount of elevation,

119,482 meters, For you, 119,8,860. Nine meters for me, you have ridden faster than me a lot faster. You did, yeah, 50 hours less than me, 50 hours. But I have a question for you, Spencer. I see here, I have 136 days of training. And you have 408 activities. What's up with that?

I'm always riding baby. Well, this is actually a good community project. So I just do a lot of like I'll ride with my son in the morning to his school. Okay. So I ride there and back. That's included. Okay. So your school runs are included.

And I tried for a while. I was doing something where I would put the garment on. I would ride to school, ride home. And then I would pause the garment and turn it off. I would turn it back on and go on a ride and try to like batch it all together. But then I was getting corrupted files. I think if you try to like let it sit idle for too long, it introduces too many variables, you'll corrupt a file, you'll lose that ride. So I've started to

split them up more. Like, I rode, I had a meeting last night and I rode from, from shortage to like Coving Garden. And I was on a city bike. And I did include that because I needed those six miles, you know, so you can't close the gap too much. You knew I was coming. You knew I was coming. Anyways, it's tight. It's tight, it's tight Spencer. I'm going to depend a lot of the, from the, you know, on the weather. I mean, it's getting, it's getting rainy here in Madrid. But, but, but anyways, we're, we're, we're, we're, it's, it's a fun, it's a fun little little, little, I got to get a boris bike on the way home today. I've got to get those miles. Even if it's raining. You need to rise, you need to ride eight kilometers to catch up with. What's funny is it will, we're not trying to do

this and it probably will come down to like some crazy small amount of kilometers. Yeah. Yeah. And it happens almost every year. It's really weird, actually. Yeah. Well, listen, for me, Spencer, the most important is whatever. I mean, this battle is just a joke. You know what I mean, it's just, you know, I'm just, you know, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, you know, I'm just set my side on 12,000 kilometers in the year, a thousand. So, uh, I'm happy I'm on track.

And then you will get there too. You'll also get your 12,000. Yeah, it keeps us riding. That's what's important. Exactly. Exactly. And I am cheating a little bit too, because when you ride on Zwift, you can. do group rides and you're getting it's like perfect you know it would be like if you were on a

group ride in perfect conditions yeah can roll along at like 25 26 miles an hour okay less of an effort than yeah i have i have i have maximum free swift rides in the whole year isn't you know maybe i'm yeah maybe we do wednesdays i did a few of those uh have we started already with we do wednesdays we'll have to let's we'll have to let's we'll let me get some information on that. We'll get back to people. Let's punt that one. But before we get to questions, a couple other topics for you.

So we saw last week, we did not talk about it because it happened as we were recording. Premier Tech left Israel Premier Tech as a sponsor. I'm going to say, frankly, that shocked me. Immediately. With immediate effect. Yes, which I guess that means they don't have to pay the last few months of the deal. I would love to see that contract. And why now?

They said it was untenable. They said their goals were to support Canadian cycling. My kind of my pet theory is that the G lawsuit cannot be helping because if they want to support Canadian cycling and then they're helping fund a 30 million pound or 30 million euro lawsuit against the best Canadian cyclists, maybe they're not so happy about that. But I was shocked because I thought the team's going to rebrand. It's going to be called Premier Tech. Yeah.

They get their own team essentially. But that's not how it worked out. I mean, do you have any insight in the why that happened? You know, I don't. I don't. I was, I mean, I'm not going to say surprised because, you know, they had already manifested their, you know, doubts, them and factor, by the way. I think during the tour of Spain, they were vocal, you know, about that the team needed to rebrand. And otherwise they would, they would stop supporting the team.

So as far as I know, the team has been registered for the moment under the holding name Cycling Academy. And it looks like it's going to be up to Sylvan Adams to write the check and now a bigger check, I think. A bigger check and he can't brand it the way he wants to, which. Yeah, well, you know, I don't know. I'd like to know exactly what they're, you know, I don't know, I don't know what they're, you know, I don't know what reason is for him sponsoring the sponsor or paying for the team. I mean, he, part of the fact that he is himself in his, I don't know, his age, but mid 60s, late 60s, probably, I don't know. He's, apparently he's an incredible good cyclist. He's world

champion, Grand Fondo, I think. And I saw that he was second in the world championships on the track a few months ago, last month maybe. And so, you know, he's, he's a very, very avid cyclist himself. So, you know, he wants to have a cycling team. He has deep pockets. Okay, fine. The thing is, I personally think that the team is safe for next year. He's going to fund the team. How much further does he want to do that is the question. You know, I mean, is 27, 28 and beyond still on the table? And I think the problem now, unfortunately, is that any other new company or new sponsor who will want to associate them with the team. Because even if it's not branded Israel anymore, that identity is there. And it takes a while for an identity that has been in place for a number of years, what, 10 years maybe now?

Yeah. To fade away, right? I think the only possibility is that it's companies that are within the close circle of Sylvan Adams, which I'm sure he has plenty of those. You know, I'm a bit, I'm still curious to see what factor will do, the bike brand, because they were also vocal. Very vocal. Yeah.

So I would not be surprised to see them following the footsteps of Premier Tech. I mean, I hope for the team and the writers that that's not happening, but I'm not so sure about that. The thing that stuck out to me about Factor in their statement, they explicitly said this is not a moral or ethical issue for us. It's a business issue. Yeah. This is hurting our business. Yeah. Yeah.

Which tells you they're not probably not going to sit on their hands. So since that happened, I'm kind of glad we didn't talk about it. since that happened. And I was confused. It's like, well, Premier Tech, they want to be involved in cycling. What are they going to do? And then we're talking about Alpacin de Konek potential, potentially had budget shortfalls. It's why they've been turning their roster over this offseason so much.

And then we hear rumors from La Gazette de la Sport, which is often correct about this. Who did? Who was it that? Oh, that's it. Ciro. Was it Ciro, Schiro, Scho, or whatever. It is Chiro. Chiro Scandamilio.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's to be taken with a grain of salt, I would say. But I would personally, I mean, what do you think? I mean, I think it makes a lot of sense. So I don't know if we said it. The rumor is that Premier Tech is going to join Alpac and DeKonek as a partner. And you can't have three. I didn't know this until I talked to Hansgroro, the company. And I was like, oh, the rumor is Red Bulls coming on. And their statement was like, Hansgrove will continue to be. be a title sponsor. And I was like, so who's getting booted? I didn't realize you could have three title sponsors in a name. So there's room there. I think it makes a lot of sense for Premier Tech to join them.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think, I mean, listen, if the Routovs have proven that their team is run, you know, it's a tight operation. But at the end of the day, they have, they produce results, right? Which company does not want to be associated with Matthew and repul? Yeah, exactly. Right?

I had heard that the Koenig was stepping up and that they would stay on board. But that would obviously mean, but not necessarily. I mean, if Premier Tech would get on board, I think the Koenig would, you know, go into a less prominent role. But yeah, I mean, I think that would make sense. I mean, it's typical, you know what I mean, like I think Premier Tech. tech in whoever's in charter of the, of the, you know, the advertising company who's dealing with Premier Tech, their phone must have been red hot as soon as they made that announcement. I mean, cycling was just on this.

Okay, yeah, we're looking for sponsor. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, which is, which shows you the, you know, the vulnerability of, of the sport, you know, like everybody is always desperate for another sponsor. Well, did you see this? I didn't read it because I don't read Danish and my translation wasn't working. Bionner-Rees said Vizma short of funds, which we kind of forget, but two years ago,

they almost went under as a team. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's the same thing. It's one of the biggest teams, but there are, obviously, listen, they've invested heavily in Jonas and in Wout, which makes sense. You know, I think that's the right thing to do. The same thing happens in. in opposite.

They've enhanced it heavily in Vanderpoul and the Asper Philipson, you know. But, you know, a lot of guys have left Visma also. If you look, you know, like Olaf Koi, Teach Benot, you know, these guys who are really very, very valuable for the team, go to teams who have, who offered them big contracts. I mean, huge contracts that, you know, a team like Visma is not able to pay. And so you have to let, I mean, it's happened all the time, you know, I mean, it usually happens in the fall of their career. Like, Tish Benot is already, you know, he's a veteran writer. And so it makes sense, you know, like one last contract, three years, big check.

You know what? I, you know, I applaud you, you know, just take the contract because we can't match it, you know. And they have Matthew Brennan. So yeah, exactly. If you have a Brennan, do you need a coy? Probably not. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I mean, I was doing some breakdown, Johan, and the most valuable writer of the year last year, and this is just in terms of points scored on their team, like as a percentage of the entire team's points, was Oscar Onley, which I was surprised by. And then Matthew Brennan was like without Brennan and Coy, Vismo would have like really struggled to get the amount of wins that they normally get. Like, Brennan was one of these on picnic, yeah, yeah, he was on picnic. And so Oscar only was first. I was just sitting at the table there.

Like he's the most valuable rider and professional cycling to their team. But behind that, like I just, this is the ranking of world tour wins for every rider. Matthew Brennan was 10th last year. Yeah. And he was tied with Jonas Vindigard. And then those are, and then Olaf Koi.

So it's, Koi had the most world tour wins on Bisma. He was seventh overall. Vindigard and Brennan both had four. So like Matthew Brennan and Koi were like very, very important for Vizma's win-winn ability. And then now they're losing Koi. So it's actually it's a diceier situation than you would expect for a team that good. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

And so we heard, you know, we're talking about Visma. I think last week we were talking about the triple. Could anyone do the triple? And I don't know if you want. There was a documentary Vizma did before the tour. And Yonis is at camp and he's like, I really want to target this year to. Italia. I was like, that's kind of a funny decision. But I guess he was joking and they all start laughing. So this makes me take it with a grand of salt. But Jonas Vinegard has said he's maybe

thinking about doing the Gioritaia Tour de France, double, the Tom Dumillon, as we call it. And do you think this is a good idea? Do you think he can compete in both? And do you think it's going to happen? Well, I mean, from from his point of view, I think it makes a lot of sense. You know, he wants to win the three ground tours. He's won the tour. He's won the tour. he's won the two or twice. He's won the Vuelta now. He wants to win the Giro. I think it makes a lot of sense.

A combination. I mean, and then we have to, you know, of course, we don't know what's, you know, what's happening in his mind and whatever, you know, because deep down, I think, right now, I think Jonas is probably thinking, well, if today stays at this level, I can. can't get him at the tour, right? So let's look for something else. I just read actually while we were talking in the pre-the preview, pre-show, that Vizma does not agree with that idea of him going to the Gero,

that they think it will compromise his chances at the tour, which I think is right. Well, shouldn't the question not be, can he win the tour if he does the Gero, but can he finish second of the tour if he does the Gero? Yeah. Because he's not going to beat Tade. My answer is yes. He can win the Gero and finish second. That's what I.

Because he just has to be good enough in case Tade has a problem. Exactly. Yeah. I think he can. I mean, if Tom Blumlin can do it, he can do it. Yeah. He probably don't know the zero route, do we? No, we don't.

It's well, no, it's not announced yet. It's always like leaks so much that you never quite know when it's announced it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, when was it? Was it last? Was it last year?

think it. Not this 2004. Last year where they like never got it out. Because they didn't know until two months before the race if it was going to start in Italy or in Albania. No? Yeah. I've heard.

Was that last year? That was last year. Yeah. They didn't know. And I've heard rumors, not rumors. I've heard from riders where on in the first week of the zero, you don't know your hotels for the third week. Yeah. Wow.

And that has changed. That has changed. But, yeah, listen, it's nothing compared to. organization like the Tour de France, you know, where everything's set in stone already. Yeah. Almost a year before. So, I mean, I think he should do it. I think I think everyone has to start making contingency plans.

Like, just recognize that we're in the era of Taday in plan accordingly. Yeah. I think, I think what, you know, I think it's a good idea to be ready in case something happens. but already have your homework made. In this case, having won a big race before. And Jonas knows also that, you know, I mean, if he wants to win another grant, if he wants to win the Gero, it's now. Yeah.

It's now, you know, because, I mean, from what I've been reading it, you know, del Toros focusing on the Gero, for example. Yeah. If he gets a bit better, if he, you know, it still increases his level, then it's also not going to be easier, not going to become easier for Jonas, because I think Jonas is, we've seen the top level of Jonas already. What is he now, 28, 29? He's 28 going on 29. Yeah. Okay. So obviously, I mean, he's still, he's not old, but. Well, he might be, hold on a second. This is his top level. Yeah. Right. He'll be 29 next season.

But you know this better than anyone, having been a director of so many grant tour guys. Like, once the switch, Once the light switch goes out, like they don't win anymore. Yeah. You know, it's like they can win as much as they want, it seems like, and then it's gone. It's fine. Yeah. It happens. Yeah.

So I think, yeah, you got to. I think I'm, I'm in favor of, of you. I mean, for himself, for his career. Listen, I mean, he's won the two or two times. Of course, the Tour de France is, you know, the biggest event. And if you win it, you're the king of cycling. But, you know. If you've won all three, there's not that many guys who won all three.

Pogacra, for example, hasn't won all three yet. Nope. How many people have won all three? Do you know how to talk about to have to have? Miguel Indyne never won all three, for example, right? I mean, it's very rarefought. It's someone, Erwan, to get us into our questions. Erwin says if Pagachar won three in all year, and I guess this goes for anybody,

how does that change their legacy? I think if I got your one, three in all year, you'd have to start talking about, especially if you do three in all year plus a world title, that's best of all times. Yeah. We're still there with best of all times. You know, I mean, he is on his way, right? But you bring up a good point that he's not actually won all three in his career. He hasn't won all three.

That's a good place to start probably. So, okay. it's not as simple as showing up you need to be prepared but you know this today pogachar if he says okay i'm doing i'm doing the welta it's very likely he's going to win it right i mean if he doesn't win it whatever he has accomplished already is is is amazing you know i just i just want to take the opportunity to contradict my uh my fellow belgian the great roger de vlaming who gave an interview and lost the news, I think, and he said that, I mean, it's not the first time, Roger says things that are really not very accurate. But, you know, he said, yeah, well, Boracchar doesn't even, what is it?

He doesn't come to the heels of any Marx or something. Yeah, he's like, if the Blanick's quote was like, if I was there, he wouldn't have, he wouldn't be able to drop me. Well, listen, that's that's another. Okay, this one thing is that, so there's two things. The Blaming says, Bogachar doesn't even reach the heels or the ankles of Eddie Marks, which is absolutely not true. He is getting up there, you know, especially considering cycling nowadays and the competition and, you know, the level of a lot of other riders.

And then, yeah, I mean, Roger said also, yeah, if I was 22 now, he was not going to be able to drop me. Roger de Vlamic, listen, Roger de Vlamic, childhood hero of mine, great, I mean, amazing writer. Very unlucky to be in the era of Eddie Merck's. But, you know,

won four times Pari Roubaire. He won all the... I mean, he won Lébert Baston Liesch. He won, I think he won all the monuments, actually. He won Milan Saint-Rémo. He won Flanders. He won Roubet four times. He won Lombardy,

for sure. and what's and what's the other one? And Liesh. He won all five. Yeah. He won all five, you know, won a lot of other races. It was a cyclocross, right? He was world champion.

Cyclercross, by the way, was, you know, one, I think, if I'm not mistaken, he won Tireno Adriatico seven times. Amazing champion, right? Amazing champion. But to say that Bogachar would not drop him when he was an auto-euro 22 years old. I was thinking about this on my ride yesterday. I said, you know what? I mean, I have a lot of admiration for Roger de Blaming, but Roger de Vlaming has never won a grand tour. That's what I was thinking of.

Roger DeVlaming, you guys dropped in your time. If I'm not mistaken, if I'm not mistaken, has never been on the podium of a ground tour, if I'm not mistaken. I don't think so. He may have two of a friend stages of the Gero, but I don't think so. I think there was one one year where he was going to be going for the G.C. And there was a teammate of him, a Belgian guy, Johann de Munk, who was going also for G.C. And I think the Munk was a bit better because the Munk ultimately ended up winning the Gero. I don't know if it was that Gero. But I do remember reading when I was very young that the Vlamink couldn't have.

handled the fact that the Munk was better and he went home. But I don't think the Vlam, I'm sure he never won a grand tour. And I don't think he's ever been on the podium. Fourth of the zero, 1975. So, yeah, never on the podium. Roger is, you know, he's been a great champion. But his interviews lately are a bit sad, I think.

You know, he's also criticizing Vonderpool. You know, he can, yeah, no, he can't, he can't time draw. He can't plan. Roger, you couldn't climb either. I mean, you have to be able to climb when you were fort into Gero, but he's never been on the podium of a ground. I mean, I've been on a podium of a ground tour. That's a good point.

So I'm better than Roger. No, no, obviously not. Obviously not. But no, I'm a bit sad to see, you know, these interviews because, listen, he does the interview with, you know, the best. intention, but you know, there's a few of those quotes that are really stupid and, and then they get blown up as usual, right? So lots of respect, amazing respect for Roger Du Vlamink, but what you say about Bogachar and Eddie Merck is not true. And what he says about

him would not be dropped from Pogacar when he was 22, in my opinion is also not true. I'll leave it that. It's very easy to say someone couldn't drop you. Like I remember when Taylor Finney was coming up, I was like, that guy can't drop me. No way. No way. And then, Yohan, I rode with Taylor Finney. Do you want to guess what happened? He dropped you. He dropped me. But it's easy to say that they can't. That's, that's the easy part. So one one question, one other question before we get going, before I get kicked out of this office. So this is from Chad and Pennsylvania. I almost didn't read this because it's a bit of a bummer, but I'm curious to see what you say. So what do you think is the realistic best case scenario for Mateo Jorgensen in the year ahead?

There was a decent amount of excitement around him going into 2025. He obviously had a solid start to the season. Yeah, with his win at Perry Nice, but things seem to fizzle from there. I know he dealt with illness. Loved his fight at the Tour de France with that final stage performance. That was, by the way, I went back and watched that. I forgot how good Camp and Arts and Jorgensen were on that stage. Is this stock pointing up or down for 2026 and beyond?

And he eventually challenged for a grand tour podium. Thank you and love the show. Yeah. I think Mattel Jorgensen, I mean, I don't think we can judge him on this season because I don't know what kind of illness, but there was definitely something wrong, especially at the Tour de France. Yeah. Mateo Jorgensen was not at his expected level at the tour. So I think, you know, races like Paris Nice and. Romandy and Dofine and stuff like that.

Mateo Jorgensen definitely is able to win them. I mean, he's won twice Padinis already, which is, you know, it's a big stage race, but it's in the spring. So you can't really, you know, you can't compare it to Doffine, but he was already second in Doffine, I think, two years ago, three years ago, maybe. Was that like the Derek G year? Yeah, it was Roglidge, Jorgensen, G. Yeah.

So, you know, I mean, he, that's, that's within. reach. And I think a podium in a grand tour is in reach. But it's zero in Vuelta, in my opinion. Yep. And then, and I think the problem you, Mathieu has is that, you know, he's on Visma. They have Jonas, who remains a Tour de France candidate winner. And you're obviously going to be on that team in the tour. they want to send their best team. So if a podium, I think a podium would be possible for Matteo Jorgensen in the tour. I mean, but it would need to be because of circumstances, you know,

breakaway, somebody failing, Jonas probably getting sick, has to abandon, gets his own choice, on chance and can then write to the podium. I think quality-wise, he does have the qualities to be. on the podium in the Tour de France if whatever happens with one of the favorites. It's almost like he's too important to the team, though, because he's always on that tour team and he doesn't get to target the other grand tours. Yeah. Yeah.

But, you know what? I mean, listen, at the end of the day, he's also probably getting well paid for it. You know, yeah. And he'd love to forget that. He loves his job. It's also fun to be on a very good team. I would imagine. It is.

Yeah. I think you were talking about the old Flanders course. I think he could have won Flanders on the old course. I don't think he can win on the new one, unfortunately. Well, it depends who participates. Probably some pretty good riders, I assume. Well, it would have to be a year where, well, if Bagotcha and Vanderpillar aren't there, actually, it's kind of interesting. You know, this course is definitely, you know, it's for sure the strongest riders.

I mean, whoever is strong and has a good team, they're going to be in the final. And there is going to be one of those guys who, you know, it's going to be one of those guys who, we went, you know, I think, I mean, the last, it's hard to get out ahead of the race, too. Yeah, well, you know, the last surprise winner, I think on that, on that new course is probably Betjore. You know, Betjol was, I mean, he was, I mean, he was super strong that day. But he did drop everybody in the hardest part, I guess, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, he was super strong.

What happened to that guy? Yeah. I don't know. I don't want to speculate, but he, well, I don't, you know what's weird about Betty all? He's like, I don't know. We should do like a deep dive on that because remember there was a year he didn't race and you targeted the Olympics and he was in the front group.

It was Tokyo, I think. He like cramped up. Yeah. You know, he has these like moments where he flashes that greatness. Yeah, yeah. Doesn't seem like he can put it all together for a season. Mm-hmm. But great chat to you, Johan, do you have anything else to add before we take off?

Well, say hi to some of my friends at Ruler and some of my not friends. They hi to. We'll do. Yeah, enjoy it over there. Speak soon. All right. Thanks so much. Bye.