THEMOVE - What makes Tadej Pogačar so dominant?| THEMOVE+

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin break down a few topics of the week, including the updates, or lack thereof, on the reports of Tom Pidcock leaving Ineos for Q36.5, the intense battle amongst second-division teams to secure the coveted wildcard invitations to the sport's top races, along with a few other tidbits before getting into a few listener questions.    Hear.com: Right now, at https://www.hear.com/move our listeners can sign up for an exclusive 45-day no-risk trial. So, you can hear the difference for yourself. So, what are you waiting for? Go to hear.com/move.    

What I see is the biggest difference, especially between Tadej and Jonas, is his ability to maintain a high cadence for a very long time. The cadence is unbelievable. Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin here with Johan Bernil. We are going to rip through a few topics of the week and then get to a few listener questions that were sent in to info at wedo.team. Send

yours in if you want to be featured on next week's episode. First, Johan, I'm going to ask you about these Tom Pickock to Q36.5, I guess reporting slash rumors. And it would seem like it was locked in last week. This week has gone by and it's not, things have not, you know,

there's been no press release that it's official. Have you been hearing anything about this move? Is it getting closer to the finish line? I heard confidentially from someone that they were trying to get it wrapped up as quickly as possible. So the fact that it's not tells you that there's potentially other suitors coming out of the woodwork. Yeah. Well, I mean, we've talked about it in our last podcast already. There's nothing new as far as I'm aware of. Listen, the rumors are there. So obviously, we heard that there have been talks. I still maintain my same position hypothesis from last week is that Bitcock is not happy at Ineos.

Ineos is not happy with Bitcock. They want to get rid of the expensive contract, and they're looking for solutions. I think that's where we stand. Q36.5, they have said that they were interested. The question is, how eager are they to sign him and how eager are they to pay a lot of money? Probably not the totality of his contract, but I still think it's the same situation. Now, what I did read, however, is that there may be other candidates

who are interested in Tom Pitcock. As I said, you know, he's one of the biggest talents in cycling. I've also read a report actually from a Belgian newspaper. There's a Belgian newspaper and they have a section, it's the spy in the peloton. So they have like an anonymous professional cyclist reporting to the newspaper with news. This person, I don't know who it is,

he's active rider right now, said that the rumor within the peloton is that Tom Pitcock is a little island within the team. He's operating on his own. He has a personal mechanic, personal doctor, personal person for everything. And that there was at some point last year, and this might have been the beginning of the problems. At the end of the season, Ineos didn't allow Pitcock to go race mountain bike in Canada. Apparently they made that very clear

and he ignored those instructions and went over there anyway. And I think that's when it started to become a frictional relationship, I would say. That's the information I got from that Belgian newspaper. I've been reading the last few days that the team Tudor might team up also with Red Bull. Red Bull is, we all know, the title sponsor of Red Bull Bora. But I think there may be a partnership, probably not an official sponsorship, at least not in the name,

but there may be a collaboration with Red Bull. And that Red Bull would be interested, of course, in getting Pitcock on board. So Tudor seems to be a rumor now that they may be interested. I don't know if it's true or not. You know, let's not forget, you know, they invested heavily in Alaphilippe and Hirschi, reportedly both very big contracts, plus three million for both each. So that's a lot of money. That's a lot of money So that's a lot of money.

That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. So, you know, to add another, at least 3 million contract to that. I'm not saying it's impossible because, you know, it would require a phone call to one of the funders of the team. And, you know, basically that guy writing a check,

which is separate of the budget. Um, you know, no, no, um, for the moment, I'm still going to stick with, uh, Tom Pitko going to Q36.5. That's still my gut feeling. Um, and then, you know, it's to be seen how, uh, how that has an impact on the situation of the team. Q36.5, you know, to get a wild card in one of the Grand Tours, maybe complicated, maybe complicated, especially with the competition. You know, we all know that Lotto, Destiny and Israel, Premier Tech, they have automatic wild cards for the Tour at least.

I mean, they have them for the three Grand Tours and all the World Tour races, but Lotto last year, or the last season, decided to not do the Giro. That's probably why Tudor got in. So I think if Pitcock goes to Q36.5, it's a long-term project and it should be. You know, it's probably not going to have an impact straight away

on the starting rights of the team, Q36.5. But if they have serious big plans, I would see it as a three, four-year plan and adding a guy like Pitcock and if they can convince him to focus on becoming a full-time roads professional, I think it could be, it could be a good, good decision. Yeah. And just to back this up. So picking it. Oh, also we should say Mark Hershey getting paid 3 million a year might sound like a lot. Do you know where he's ranked currently in the rider rankings?

Top 10. I haven't checked, but he's for sure top 10. He's sixth. He's a points machine. That's a little rich for what I would want to pay for him, but for a team that's trying to get into the top two of the pro, I guess what do they call it, the pro team division now, that's not a terrible pickup. Aleph, Philippe, I could quibble with that a little bit more, but just so. I think you're right, Spencer. I mean, a bit, um, he, she, uh, well, you know,

he has, he had an amazing season, you know? So, you know, unfortunately for Tudor, he doesn't bring the points with him. So they will have to rely on his performances in 2025 to get points that count for the team. Typically, if you have a guy who has such an amazing season, the season afterwards, it's difficult to confirm. Definitely going to be very difficult to do the same, but if he does half of it, it's still going to be a lot of points. I agree with you. I don't think Alaphilippe will score that many points, although he's still a very good rider. But I think, you know, the prime Alaphilippe,

we have seen him already. So, you know, I think, I mean, Tudor has obviously plans to, you know, go to the Grand Tours. Probably their big gamble is to get a Tour de France wildcard. I think they may succeed for 2025, especially because Tudor as a sponsor also is known to get really involved in sponsoring the events. They did the same with the Giro. They were the official timekeeper for the Giro. Let's see if Tudor next year becomes

the official timekeeper of the Tour, or maybe Rolex. I've been told it's the same company. Who knows? There's definitely a lot of money behind that team also. Well, that would make the money make a little bit more sense. And just to, I mean, here, while we're on the topic, Tom Pickcock ranked 31st in points. Doesn't score a lot of points, especially for what you're paying for him. I'm going to check that to make sure I'm right. Sorry. Yeah, 31st is correct. But just to sum up what you said, the situation with Ineos cannot continue.

They don't want to continue to pay him the money they're paying him. He wants more freedom. So we need him to leave. He has a contract through 2027. Who can take on this contract? I guess a few teams could. There's not many, though. And then second part of that question, who has the space to accommodate him and his goals and his entourage?

This word entourage keeps popping up. This entourage must make itself known. Like Garrett Thomas has mentioned it. You've been mentioning it for a year. It was the, the spy in the Peloton mentioned it. So this entourage must be substantial.

And I guess I don't want to be rude, but probably disruptive to the team and how they want to run things. But Q36.5, I guess makes sense because he could come, they could afford them. Probably Ineos would have to pay what one, two million euros of that contract just for him to leave. But then they're saving two, three, four, whatever he's making this year. And they just laid off Sir Alex Ferguson, probably the most famous manager in the history of English football.

From his chairman emeritus role, they're paying him two million pounds a year. They're slimming down. They're serious about saving money. They they're gonna look for a million here a million there so that kind of makes sense here's the landing spot i have questions about and maybe tom pickock's like tom pickock likes this because if they don't get invited to a lot of races he can focus more on cyclocross focus more on mountain bike bike. Maybe he wants that. But I'm just going to read you the wildcards to the last, the three grand tours this year. Giro was Pulte Cametto.

That's an Italian team. Second one was VF Group Bardiani. There's only two wildcard teams now, so it's harder and harder to get wildcard invites. Both of those are Italian teams. Tudor gets in because Lotto turns down their invite, like you mentioned. So that's big for Tudor.

That's huge because they wouldn't have gotten into Grand Tour probably without that. The Tours, Uno X, pretty good. They're the third best second division team. Total Energy, they're a French team. So there's always going to be a French team that gets a wildcard invite. Lotto and Israel

or IPT, whatever they're calling themselves these days, picks up their options. They get in. Volta is Uscadal-Uscadi. That's a Spanish team. They're going to get in. Equipo, Kern, Farma is the second one. They get in. They do a great job, so they maybe get

invited back, but there's more Spanish second division teams that can be invited, so they're going to have to rotate those. If you're not a Spanish team, you're not getting invited. Basically, Q36.5... Let's not forget one thing, Spencer. I don't think there's any specific set rule that certain organizers, they will ask for, I mean, let's say if they want to get another,

if Spain, for example, if normally they have to take next year, they have to take Cajarural and Burgos BH because it's a rotation. Now I don't see how they can leave Canfarma out. You know, they want three stages. They may ask for an exception and, you know, add another team. I will definitely say yes. Are you sure? Are they cracking down on that because they want,

because doesn't that undercut the whole project of promotion relegation because they want the stakes to be so high that if you're not earning points, you also have to be in the top 30 of points earners of all teams to even be eligible to get a wildcard invite, which might be a problem for Q36.5 actually. Hold on a second. of points earners of all teams to even be eligible to get a wildcard invite, which might be a problem for Q36.5, actually. Hold on a second. Yeah, let's not forget,

I'm just talking about the Vuelta, you know? The Vuelta is owned by the ASO. ASO is the Tour de France. Tour de France is the biggest power in cycling. The president of the International Cycling Federation is French. So, you know, if they want it to happen, it's going to happen. cycling this this the president of of the cycling international cycling federation is french so you know it's if they want it to happen it's going to happen they don't care if it's in the rules or not they'll change that yeah i mean yeah maybe i mean it could be good for the sporting i

just have a hard time believing like is aso really sitting around thinking like how can we help out these small spanish teams like they probably are thinking how can we help as these small Spanish teams? Like they probably are thinking, how can we help ASO? I mean, maybe they, someone makes a donation and they get in, which is where 36.5 could come in. Basically. My point is he's probably not racing a grand tour.

If he goes to Q36.5, maybe if he goes to tutor, that's a lot of redundant riders, but we should say any other team that can afford them. It's going to have a lot of redundant riders, Red Bull, a lot of redundancy there. Who else is even, who else would even be interested that has the money not many other day i saw i saw i briefly i saw a visma has shown interest but i don't know i don't know if

that's true or not um anyway you know at the end of the day, it's kind of ironic. Pitcock is not wanted anymore at his team. And he is in a great position because he has a guaranteed contract if he wants to stay. Yeah. And there's different suitors on the horizon that want him. So he's in a good position. They call that negotiation. They call that BATNA, best alternative to negotiate agreement. He can just sit on his behind and say what are you guys gonna offer me what can you do for me because if nothing changes i get paid a lot of money through 2027 so uh if the

team goes under they have to pay me out anyway on on the topic of second division teams uno x signs olaf alexander boo who is christian blumenfeld's triathlon coach like he's probably you don't follow triathlon like blumenfeld is doing things no one thought was possible in triathlon and boo is has this the norwegian training method which is all the all the rage and endurance training circles so that's notable that just shows you i mentioned that to say like the level of these second division teams is getting so high like they're hiring some of the best sports scientists and they maybe won't even get invited to a grand tour next year so it's cutthroat at that second division level actually wouldn't want

to be actually is a testament to lotto destiny what they've done and been able to score so many points at that level with the resources they have the other part of that is christian blumenfeld kind of teased that he was going to go into cycling and wanted to win the tour and then has now come out and said actually the money wasn't good enough so i'm not going to do it but that strikes me as a little odd since you think that's something you would have like cross-referenced before you did a public campaign about how are you going to go to pro cycling yeah well i well, I think Blumenfeld obviously changed his mind during the Olympics or after the Olympics. I've always said that his ambition to become a Tour de France winner is not going to happen. It's not possible. Not in today's cycling um you know he's not the

youngest anymore he can't make that transfer um and even if he would be able to do it physically then you know his lack of experience in in-road races would never i mean he can never make up for that interesting to see his coach to go to unix it shows that UnioX has big plans. They have a long-term vision and they have money. Since I think quite some things changed also since Thor Hussoft took over the management.

So they're quite aggressive. They also signed a 10-year deal with Ridley, by the way. A 10-year deal with Ridley, the bike manufacturer. So that's unheard of in, in cycling. And I've even, I think I've saw somewhere, I'm not confirmed that Blumenfeld would actually also venture into cycling through, you know, X. So I don't know if that's true or not.

That would have been a dream you had. I can't find any. I'll find it and send it to you. You know, that would involve also that he would meet the, you know, stop his contract with giant, the, the bike manufacturer, and that he would be on Ridley, but I don't know. Interesting to see that, you know, it's also, okay. You know, the, the coach, what's his name? Alex. Olav Alexander Boo.

Okay. Yeah. You know, I mean, he's obviously knows what he's doing, but you know, there's not, I mean, there's no. Sorry. Alexander, not Alex, like Alexander Boo. Yeah. So, you know, the Norwegian methods at the end of the day, you know, there's no, there's not really any secret, you know, everybody knows how they're training and what they're doing. But, but, you know, it shows how ambitious, you know, X is as a team and as a project. So we'll see, we'll see if that has an impact on them. I mean, they're already top team. I think personally, I think they're a little bit limited in their potential because they limit themselves to basically Scandinavians,

mostly Norwegians and a few Danes. That's obviously puts you know, puts, puts a, a break on, on, on their potential because there's, there's a lot more talent outside of those countries. And, uh,

if you have to go exclusively with one or two nationalities, um, it's difficult to be, to be top everywhere. Um, but yeah, I mean, interesting,

interesting development. No love for the Swedes. I don't want to wade into any geopolitical waters here, but yeah, it's like interesting, interesting development. No love for the Swedes. I don't want to wade into any geopolitical waters here, but yeah, it's like, what's going on. There's, and there's no one on bikes over there, but it is kind of, I actually like that setup that it is, that it is so nationalistic because it gives a chance, like it really develops riders from those countries.

If they could get the best Danish riders though, they're winning the tour potentially, you know, if they could get Jonas to come over, I'm sure they've had meetings about that. Before we move on, you've teed us up perfectly with Ridley. I just want to put a pin in the pick-up conversation. I'm looking at Q36.5

as a race schedule for one days from this last year. Potentially does actually match up decently well. They do two monuments, Flanders, Rue Bay. If they have Peacock, maybe they would get invited to Liège, Lombardia, San Remo, perhaps, and then a lot of semi-classics and some decent one-day races.

So maybe that is what he's looking for, a little bit more elbow room to focus on mountain bike, a team that's going to pay him a lot of money to showcase their bikes, probably Pantarello at some point. Maybe not as outlandish as I originally thought, but to go into Ridley, Lotto, Destiny, DSTNY, we're still unsure what that company is. Destiny's leaving the sponsorship after this year. They're no longer going to be on board. There's been some, I guess, reporting. I actually, I thought I read a piece and I couldn't find it about how like they're even

having writers pay for their own travel. Cause they're out of money. Stefan Hulot, the GM has struck back at this saying, this is not true. Maybe spicier language than that. So I don't want to comment on it too much further until he comes out and says anything. But I mentioned that because they had, they had Ridley's last year in a long-term relationship with them. Apparently, Arnaud Dele,

their star young sprinter, didn't want to ride Ridley's and they didn't have a favorable deal with Ridley. They weren't getting paid enough money to continue riding them. It was hurting their budget. Ridley leaves because they want to be on Orbea's, allegedly. And now it's interesting to me that Ridley's signing with probably one of

the most scientifically driven teams in the Peloton. So can you help us square that circle, Johan? Like why is Unilex picking up Ridley or was Lotto wrong to get rid of them? I think, I think that the, the decision of Lotto to, to stop collaborating with Ridley, although they still have a contract. So I think, you know, it was mainly because it's a very old deal that was actually renewed a few years ago,

a few years ago, three, four years ago, by the former manager, John DeLonge. And as far as I, uh, have been informed, it was a deal where it was a great deal for Ridley. Uh, you know, it was basically supplying the equipment and there was no money attached. No, which is unheard of basically. So, you know, I mean, I've, I've been in, in been in negotiations with some bike brands in the past, and somebody must have had a pretty good check under the table, in my opinion, to sign that deal. So, yeah, because normally, you know, nowadays for a bike brand, I think it's 3 million minimum,

3 million euros to be the sponsor of a first division team. I think the decision was basically, first of all, financial, but there was also complaints from riders. They changed to Orbea. I've heard that the riders are very happy with Orbea and that Orbea is also working on making a lot of progress in all different kinds of bike frames and models. So yeah, I mean, if Ridley goes to Unox, first of all, they make a long-term commitment, which goes together with the philosophy of the team. I cannot imagine that there's no money involved in the sponsorship, but, you know, X is also a very powerful company. They have a lot of money if they want to spend it on the sport. So it might be that they they're

more buying into the vision and the willingness to cooperate and develop the best bike, who knows, rather than focusing on the money. Because if Ridley doesn't pay $3 million and they pay $1.5 million, they can say, well, you know, whatever, we'll pay the other $1.5 million. It doesn't really hurt us as a company. So, but yeah, I mean, I was surprised to see that, that, that cooperation for, for 10 years between Ridley and, you know, X actually. Hey everybody. I want to tell you about a new sponsor we have here at The Move, which is Hear.com. If you've ever been frustrated with hearing loss, Hear.com is exactly where you need to go. These guys are the real deal. They've got an A plus rating from the Better Business Bureau, a 4.9 rating at Consumer Affairs, and over half a million people are

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difference for yourself. So what are you waiting for? Head to hear.com slash move. That's H E A R dot com slash move, not the move, move today to get that offer. All right, now back to the show. Well, now that I think about it, I don't know if I want to say the name of the company, the company they're on. When I was at the tour this summer, you could tell Uno X probably had maybe not the fastest bike at the tour. It's potentially that potentially Ridley's better than their current sponsor performance

wise. So they figure we'll get some money and it's a better bike. They're like working their way up the ladder. I don't know. But the more I think about it is I actually personally kind of like the bikes that they ride. But I can't imagine they're any faster than a Ridley. And then who knows? Ridley is not top of the game either.

But, you know, I mean, it's also not that easy to find because all the good brands, they're all tied up already, you know, and they're investing a lot of money and there's a war between the big bike brands to be, you know, who can they sponsor or who will allow them to sponsor which team, you know? So that's another war that's going on, uh, another,

another race between the big bike brands. So, um, I personally think it's they bought, they bought more into the long-term vision. Um, and that's always something that you can, you know, as a bike brand, you can say, okay, you know, we, we have this, this vision and we want to, we want to do this and this. And so let's work on it together. Yeah. I mean, I like it.

I trust InnoX. I probably am too biased towards them. They're my favorite team in the Peloton. I really like their project. I like their long-term vision. Speaking of bikes, speaking of teams, just quickly, Astana, they were supposed to have some massive Chinese sponsor come on board. Bike brand? I'd never heard of the bikes before. Bike manufacturer. Or carbon. just quickly Astana they were supposed to have some massive Chinese sponsor come on board bike brand question mark I'd never heard of the bikes before bike manufacturer or carbon no carbon

manufacturer carbon manufacturer okay where is that like there's no they're not signing any big signings Cavendish is leaving apparently they tried to get Caleb Ewan didn't get Caleb Ewan is like I don't know I. Just a little bit of background. Like if you remember Lamprey, went under, was supposed to be bought by Wanda, Wanda Corporation, massive Chinese company.

Didn't happen. Oh, sorry. We did. It was like the fax didn't, our faxist was sick and we couldn't send the fax through. They get picked up by UAE. The rest is history.

A little bit outside of cycling, Inter Milan and AC Milan bought by two major Chinese companies never actually put any money into the teams and both teams kind of go into the bankruptcy, have to get bought

by private equity firms in the US. I don't know. I've seen this. I just feel like I've seen this movie with these Chinese investments and as they talk a big game and then there's never actually like the money never actually shows up that's why I'm a little skeptical of this you know what I

what I know is that uh there's been negotiations there's probably an agreement with this uh carbon manufacturer from China now the problem is that um this uh you know Astana Kazakhstan is a Kazakh licensed team owned by the Cycling Federation of Kazakhstan or even the government. This sponsorship from China will not happen if the license changes hands. Right now, I think there's a rule in China that no money can be invested or leave the country if it's in charge of the Kazakh team, Astana, is not signed. There's no signature. They've made some moves by trying to get some riders on board, basically in a panic maneuver to get points, for example. Very surprisingly, I bet you all changed teams in August all of a sudden, like immediately.

Because they need points because as it stands now at 2026, Astana is not going to have a World Tour license. Even if they bring guys on board and they start to earn points, uh, I think the gap is already too big. They'll need a miracle season next year. And somebody from the world tour, uh, top 18 to perform, uh, really poorly for them to get in the top 18. So then the question is,

is the Chinese, uh, funder going to buy into that, right? Are they going to agree? If they want a team, they want to have a top team, a first division team and be guaranteed to participate in all the races. Now, if they're relegated, they're probably first or second in the pro teams and they can still participate in the same situation like Lotto, Destiny, and Israel. But to me, it's unclear. And from what I've been told, it's not signed. So we have to wait and see.

There are 5,000 points out of a World Tour spot, and they have to make that up next year. That's very hard to do. Potentially impossible, which explains the hold up the next the next one speaking of china tour of guangxi first of all there's there's two of guangxi going on right now you cannot watch it in the united states it's actually hard if you miss it it's on in the middle of the night it's actually very hard to find a recording of it even an illegal one so um i'm going a little bit off, just strange. You can like,

there's YouTube channels that are like just live images of pictures in the, of cities in the region. And sometimes they show the racing. So I haven't seen the whole thing. There's also these Italian. There's been four bunch prints. There's been four bunch prints.

So I need to see those. There's also the Italian racing going on, like Giro di Veneto or the Veneto Classic. Basically, all you need to know so far, Israel Premier Tech is absolutely crushing it. They're winning multiple. They've won in Italy and in China multiple times this week. If you have a really good memory, you'll remember they won the first World Tour race of the year, Tour Down Under.

I don't know if they'll win the GC at Tour of Guangxi, but they've won two stages. They do have Joe Blackmore there, who's very good, could win the GC if things fall this way. They've quietly had an incredible season. No thanks to their highest paid rider. They have 29 wins so far, by the way. And then I should say, I just want to make sure I give them credit. They're currently ranked 12th in points which is very good and then impressively that the second second division team behind lotto who's ninth um who just has a an amazing depth of talent on that team but they're

doing this no thanks to their highest paid rider chris room who is at the tour of guangxi i did not know he was racing johan until you me about him. Like this is he's invisible. And the amazing thing about Chris room is he's getting worse. Like every race, it seems like it's worse than the race before. Yeah. You know what? I mean, I'm a, well, first of all, you know, whoever signed that deal for Froome, uh, I would say great job to his agent, a great job and a incredibly bad job to the person who signed that, you know, deal reportedly five year contract,

5 million euros per year. Initially. I think it's been renegotiated for the last two years. But, but anyways, you know, I mean, it's, that's just a bad decision. Um, listen, the fact, the fact that the fact that he nails, uh, let him go so easily was, I think already a red flag. Cause you know, if you have a guy who's won the tour de France four times, and that's your main, main, uh, promise to, to, you know, because if he,

if he recovers fully from his accident, Chris Froome would still be at a very high level. Of course, we all know, you know, the accident was terrible, uh, in, in, in the Dauphiné or before the Dauphiné, it, you know, it, it was, there's a before and after Chris Froome. Um, you know, to me, it's just sad to see, you know, it's sad to see a before and after this room, um, you know, to me, it's just sad to see, you know, it's sad to see, uh,

a legend like Chris Froome who won four tours, two Vuelta's, one Giro, um, to see this now. I mean, today I checked, I checked the results today in today's stage,

which is a bunch sprint, by the way, a bunch sprint, uh, Chris Froome finishes 110th in the stage, 25 is a bunch sprint, by the way, a bunch sprint, uh, Chris Froome finishes 110th in the stage, 25 minutes down. Uh, there's only 117 riders at the finish. Uh, and of all these riders behind him, I know nobody, um, man, I mean, I don't know. I mean, he must like his bike, riding his bike a lot. And of course, you know, if don't know. I mean, he must like his bike,

riding his bike a lot. And of course, you know, if you get paid so much money, it's you know, I say, okay, I'm good. I'm just going through with this, you know, and every, every week or every day he's probably saying, okay, another day on the, you know, jackpot. But it just, you know, from, from, it takes away from his legacy. I think, you know what I mean? It's, it's, it's like, you know, Chris Froome is a legend. Um, and now everybody is basically looking at him and says, what is he doing? I mean, he's like the other day I was watching that race.

There was eight guys in the breakaway and we, we already knew that breakaway was not going to stay away. And the first guy who got dropped from the breakaway was Chris Froome. I mean, you know, in front of the TV cameras, that's, that's just, you know, he must, um, you know, I don't know. He, uh, he says he loves what he's doing. Uh, he's already now publicly said that, you know, he's, he's, he keeps going next year, by the way, uh, another year, another year of, uh, five or four or 3 million, whatever it is.

So it must drive the team owner crazy in my opinion. But there's nothing he could do. He signed that deal. Right. But he, Chris Froome said that, you know, now he is already, you know, made up his mind that he cannot win any more races, that he's in it for to help his team and to motivate other riders, and to see parts of the world he's never seen. Wow.

That's quite the statement. With all the respect I have for Chris Froome, but to me, it looks really sad to see him drag himself. It's not that he's getting dropped in big races. He gets dropped in the small races you know the same happened in the tour of rwanda uh same happens here now in in this chinese race

i mean it's it's a world tour race but he's getting dropped with guys from china that's sad yeah and yeah not that there's anything inherently wrong with that it's just they're not good they're not good cyclists they're from china and they also happen to not be good um yeah and i was gonna ask you like okay renegotiate the deal why like that to me that's the big thing that sticks out like he clearly needs to do this and the thing that i agree legend had a great career the thing that really i mean dings the legacy for me is it's, he's not honest about this. You know, for years it was like, I'm better than I've ever been. I think I'm going to win the tour this year. If he said,

he came out and said, I had a really bad crash. It's hard for me to accept who I am. And I just need to, I need to do this for me. Like, I, I feel like we could all kind of understand it more, but it's just this, you know, it was the same interview for five years of like better than I've ever been. I think I'm going to win the tour this year. And it's like, well, that's just not being honest either with yourself or with us, but man, I cannot believe, I can't believe he's doing this. I should say though, the contract is amazing. And maybe I

would do the same thing if I was getting paid that amount of money to go right around at the back of these races. Maybe that's just too much to turn. I've heard that. Was it last year or the year before? I don't remember. It's two years in a row now that they didn't take him to the tour. I guess so. Yes.

Yes. And so, you know, there was some kind of negotiation going on between the team management or team owners and Froome that, okay, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll take you to the tour, but we need to renegotiate your contract, you know, down. And Froome said,

okay, well, I'm not going to do the tour then. See, see you in August. You know? Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to tell anyone not to make that much money, but like I'll always support labor over capital, but just the legacy terms. I agree. I mean, even being at the tour this year, it was a little weird because he's in Monaco. He's not a part of the race at all. He's not featured at all. He's not racing. He can't even get into the VIP section. And you're like, man, you won this four times. Like you were on the top of this event through the mid 2010s and it's it's crazy to

see where he is it's it's really jarring actually yeah well um listen uh at the end of the day it's uh it's his decision he he signed that contract uh you know all of a sudden you you're signing a document and and you're looking at 25 million uh ahead of you so now if he can if he can get 20 million out of those 25 uh you know i i don't blame him i mean it's it's you know it's yeah i do want to say it's life-altering decision it's a nice it's a nice amount of money but i'm sure he feels like he's, he's earned. He's earned when he was a tour winner that he didn't get paid at the time. It's also crazy to think that member Garrett Thomas was his domestique and like, think of how their careers have diverged since 2019. Pretty wild.

So I think that's it for my topics. I will get to a few listener questions and then we will get out of here, Johan. And again, email them to info at we do dot team and they'll send them over to us the first one is from oki in darwin australia i read this one first just because that is such a wild place that captures the imagination i'd love to go to darwin sometime see some of the saltwater crocodiles hey guys and thanks for a great podcast and youtube channel question is what is yonas vindigo thinking of Tadej Pogacar's current form

can he ever beat Poggy again this is I think George might have written and this might be George Hancapy's question this is his always what he's asking but I'm curious what you think about that Johan like what is his mindset at the moment around that I think I think he thinks he can beat him you know I mean he listened he beat him twice and twice in a row. Uh, he just, he will, he will train his ass off for sure. Uh, you know, one of the, I mean, obviously one of the, one of the comments I've seen in the past, in the, in the last week was, you know, because I said that I couldn't understand why Jonas wasn't, uh, wasn't racing anymore this year. Uh, maybe that's what he's doing. He's just focusing completely on, you know, changing his training, whatever,

getting more power with different power training, whatever. He knows that he needs to step up if he wants to be a contender to Sade. I'm pretty sure, like, the mind of these guys, I think Jonas is convinced that he can still beat him. You know, and, you know, why not? Why not think that? You know, let's not forget, you know, he was, he was,

it was a miracle he was at the start of the Tour de France. You know, he came to the start after this really bad crash with minimal preparation. And he was, you know, until a certain moment, he was very close, even managed to beat him. He's one of the only riders this year who was able to beat Tadej Pogacar in a race that Pogacar wanted to win. That stage was a stage 11 in the tour.

So, you know, he must think, yeah, okay, I need to basically work harder, stay healthy, not crash and uh you know i i can still beat him i'm i'm sure that he hasn't given up i agree i do think i do think he he thinks he can still beat him and i think he can i think i said this before in a podcast this biggest ally other than him being incredible probably potentially the best stage racer in the sport it's pagacha's got all these dangling, shiny things. You know, ooh, Perry Roubaix, Lana Sanremo,

that leaves a little bit of wedge open there. Or like wedges things open for Vindigo. Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if he wins the Tour next year. I know that's crazy to say coming off the season that Pogacar just had, but I wouldn't pencil him in as a Tour winner. But we're doing our outcomes for the Tour a little bit too early question number two from sterling

this is a good question um i'm glad you sent this in why are there no more team time trials in the grand tours would having them have changed the outcome of this year's grand tours good good good point seems to me that these if these are really team events this exercise should be present yeah i agree i think a team time trial has its place has its place in the in the tour de france and in the grand tours and and and especially over a pretty good distance you know um you know like putting a team time trial in with you know 18 or 20 or 25 kilometers no sense. It needs to be a proper team time trial, like a longer event, like 40, 50 K. I don't know why they, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's obviously, it's clear that the, the,

the gap between the really powerful teams with the best riders and for sure with the biggest budgets and the other teams is becoming bigger and bigger. And so maybe the organizations are scared that the gap was going to be too, they're going to be too much time difference. You know, I remember back in the days when we were, uh, I think, uh, you know, 2001, 2002, probably, I think we had won it twice or three times. And the Tour de France changed the rules of the team time trial. And they put like a cap on how much a team could lose

uh because we were taking too much time um i think it's a great event and it should be in the grand tours uh and uh i don't have the answer of why it's not there i don't know i just to play devil's advocate and maybe this i i partially think the reason they're not there is you you're you're to blame Johan and then also team sky because what would have happened like there would have been no chance like Roman Bardet now Rick and Tana can you imagine like those teams how much they

would have lost the team sky in a long team time trial and then think about UAE like okay Pogacar has a bad day in the mountains the race is close when he's got one of you so he's got he's got brand McNulty he's got Neal's He's got Juana Jusso. He's got Joel Amed. He's got Brandon McNulty. He's got Niels Pahle. He's got him. They would put minutes,

minutes. Not necessarily between the top teams. You know, if you look, UAE, Wismar Listebike, and Sudal Quickstep,

the teams of the top three in the podium. I don't think there would be that much difference between those teams. You think Sudol Quickstep could put together a team that could compete with? They would not

win, but they would be close. They would be up there within a minute. Well, I guess we haven't defined the distance. The thing I like though, and bringing it back around, the Paris-Nice time trial, I it back around the Perry nice time trial.

I feel like that is a lot of potential. Do you remember this from two years ago at Perry nice where they took everyone's real time? Yeah. Like, I don't know. I think you could do something interesting where it's like uphill, like there's an uphill component. It's those rules. I've read somewhere. I mean, I've seen a tentative schedule of, of what de France looks like. I saw this too, yeah. I don't know if there's a team time trial in there or not. But I've seen also somewhere a rumor that there's something revolutionary

in one of the stages. So that could maybe hit. Team time trial with the real time for the leaders. Well, I saw a league tour route and there was like an asterisk stage in the second week and it was like something unique they and maybe that's a team time trial the thing though is you kind of have to have the team time trial early in the race because if you had in the site what if someone has three teammates left yeah it would be such a disadvantage so you have to have it between stage four and six yeah that's the's the only, because I saw that same thing.

I thought, oh, that'd be interesting. The team time shot came back. I mean, at this point though, you might as well try it, right? Like, okay. Give us an advantage to UAE. It's like, well, they would have had an advantage anyway. Do we think it would have changed the outcome of any grand tours? Definitely not the zero.

Definitely not the tour. The Vuelta, it actually might have hurt the Vuelta if we think about it, because would Roglic have taken more time? Yeah, they had a strong team. They had a strong team. Who was second? Was Enric Mas second?

Enric is a good question, actually. I think no. Ben O'Connor. O'Connor, okay. They had a good team, but probably not a great team for Team Tantral. Could have helped them, though, for the podium. You didn't need it.

But it probably would have been better than Movistar and EF, who were third and fourth. Yeah, yeah. Maybe, maybe. But actually, Roglic won that race by more than I remember,

2.36. So, yeah, it wouldn't have affected that. They would have been fine. Yeah, bring them back. Why not? We need something. won that race by more than I remember. 2.36. So yeah, it wouldn't have affected that. They would have been fine. Yeah, bring them back. Why not? We need something. And I guess you're right.

Wiesemann and UAE, those guys are so... I guess Sudol Quickstep will pencil... I mean, the problem is, would Remco just drop everyone on Sudol Quickstep? He'd be riding the team time trial by himself. Because there's no draft. I wouldn't want to be behind him. There's no draft. No, no, not at all all everyone should get a million euro bonus just for not getting dropped in that

team trial trial so last question this is a good one from nicholas hey guys in the question for johan specifically in simplest terms can you explain the literal elements with which differentiate today from the other writers does he just have stronger leg muscles a stronger cardio system is he fueling more efficiently is it a combo of all the above and of these which would contribute the most to that gap he has created to the other riders it's amazingly rare to see such a performance gap in cycling and i'm curious about the extent to which you think he just has a different physiology. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't, I, I don't know what exactly sets him apart. As, as we said, you know, he's, he's a great talent since, since a very young age. What I see is,

is the biggest difference, especially between today and, and Jonas is his ability to maintain a high cadence for a very long time. The cadence is unbelievable. I think I touched on it on our last podcast. You know, every single race he's won this year was between 92 and 97 RPM over the whole race, independently of how long it was. Jonas doesn't have, I mean, he has a good cadence, but not the same cadence. Now, I mean, high cadence works for some and not

for others. You know, it's not something that I, uh, I pinpoint as the reason, but what I do know is that if you are able to have a high cadence, um, you are, um, kind of protecting yourself from blowing up. You know, if you can maintain that for, I mean, if you made that your trademark, you know, that even if you're not in a great day, you're still going to be pretty good. So that's what sets him apart. Now, you know, you could also argue, well,

Remco has a great cadence also, more or less the same as today um there's something something with Polacar's pedaling style that I haven't figured out yet it looks amazing it's so smooth it looks easy um you know we've been talking about the shorter cranks. Nothing prevents Jonas or Remco or Primoz to try. And maybe it doesn't work for them. Maybe it doesn't work for them. We don't know. So I think it's a combination of, first of all, his physical talents. He has been great since he started racing. His team, all the necessary resources you can think of are on board.

His confidence, I think for the moment, that's really what sets him apart from the others. He has the amazing confidence and the others have doubts whether they can follow him or not. To really pinpoint one thing that what sets him apart, I don't really have the answer other than, you know, he's a phenomenal rider. It's a, you know, it's a one once in a generation thing we're seeing. And yeah, I mean, I wouldn't want to be in the position of the other teams

and his rivals, you know, they're trying to figure out now how the hell can we beat this guy yeah and he clearly does have a strong cardio system which is the way like i i personally if you made me go out and ride at his cadence i don't think i could do it my i'm just not efficient enough i guess what's efficiency you know you start to get into the weeds but like i just don't move oxygen around my body enough. And I would guess a lot of pros because he's just has such a efficient cardio system and an efficient pedal stroke that he can generate massive power without putting a ton of strain on his legs, which really helps you over three weeks. And then one thing, one thing I've, I'm just thinking about now is that, and you know, I'm just saying this from what I see at the races, right. And observations. No, I have no scientific data to back that up, but I'm pretty sure it would be the case in, to me, it seems like his recovery capacity is better than the rest. Yeah. Um, you

know, if you look at the tour de France this year, you know, the first week he was good, but he was not that dominant. He was a little, a tiny bit better than Jonas. And then he just kept going, getting better and better. If you go back to last year, for example, where he was in the situation of Jonas, he had a very deficient preparation towards the Tour after his elbow fracture or wrist fracture, whatever, um, you know, he got his ass kicked on that stage to over the Marie Blanc. And the day after he came back incredibly and he, you know, he dropped Jonas and he won that stage. Yeah. And then when he really got his ass kicked on Col de la Luz, you would say,

you would think, you know, okay, this is it. He's empty. He's done. There's no way. He's going to get dropped tomorrow. He did not get dropped. He attacked, attacked, attacked. Didn't drop Jonas, but won the stage, the last mountain stage. You know, normally you don't recover from stuff like that. And so he has this ability to recover, which I have not seen in other riders.

You know, whenever, let's say, for example, for example, to take the case of Remco, you know, last year's Vuelta. He was the favorite. You know, he had won it. He was the favorite. Had a bad day. Did not recover from it. I mean, he did go on and win two or three stages, but he did not recover to a level where he could actually compete with the big favorites in the mountains. He won those stages from breakaways.

So I think that's one of the, one of the things that sets him apart, his better capacity to recover than his rivals. Is he getting better in the tour or is he getting less worse? Like, is he just maintaining that first week level through three weeks? We don't know. We don't, I mean, you know, I think he, I think he got better. I mean, it's difficult. It's difficult to say we, we would have to check the performances, right. And the numbers from the performance, I mean, you can,

it can look like you get better because you're getting less tired and the others get more tired than you. But that still makes you, I mean, basically you get better because you get less fatigued than the rest. So you're, you're better than the rest. Yeah. I definitely seems like he got better. Not even relatively objectively better at the zero. Like that third week, he was so good. Interestingly enough in the Peter Tia interview, he said stage 20,

that stage 20, when you referenced, that's what gave him the confidence to come back this year and like challenge Jonas to win the tour. So oftentimes, you know, when they're like, why is Jonas winning so much? Like, what's he doing? You know, this isn't just a hermetically sealed tour de France. Like one tour leads into the other tours. And if he's crushing everyone in 2024, maybe that gives him a mental edge in 2025. So if you want him to sit up and let everyone else win, that might be one of the reasons why he's not doing that.

Yeah. Yeah. Agree. Well, Johan, that's the end of our listener questions for this week. Again, info at we do dot teams and those,

and we'll get to them next week. Do you have anything else to add before we get going? No, thanks Spencer. team send those in we'll get to them next week do you have anything else to add before we get going no thanks spencer and thank you for sending in questions to our listeners and reviewers and and keep keep them coming all right we'll talk to you soon