THEMOVE - Where Does La Vuelta Go From Here? | Vuelta a España Review | THEMOVE

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin break down Jonas Vingegaard's ride to take the overall win at the Vuelta a España ahead of João Almeida and Tom Pidcock. They discuss what this means for Vingegaard, what it says about Visma's incredible Grand Tour project, and where João Almeida and UAE can go from here. They also wonder what Pidcock's surprise ride means for his chances at the upcoming World Championships, why Vingegaard won't be present, and what the future of the Vuelta is after Sunday's final-stage debacle, where the race was shut down mid-stage due to protests and the UCI's forceful response. NordVPN: Get your Exclusive NordVPN deal here → https://nordvpn.com/themove It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! Ridge Wallet: Ready to upgrade your wallet and maybe your ride? For a limited time only head to https://ridge.com and use code [THEMOVE] at checkout for 10% off your order AND a chance to win Ridge’s biggest sweepstakes ever—a Lamborghini Huracan Sterrato, a Hennessey Velociraptor, or $100,000 in cash. No purchase necessary to enter, but every dollar you spend gets you more entries. Ketone-IQ: Take Your Shot— Get 20% off your order at https://Ketone.com/themove and use the code THEMOVE. AG1: Head to https://DrinkAG1.com/themove to get a FREE Welcome Kit, including a bottle of Vitamin D and 5 AG1 Travel Packs (a $76 value), when you first subscribe!   

And then also, Spencer, one of my observations is that only seven teams won stages in this Guelta. You know, you won seven stages, seven stages for one team. That's, it's been a while. Opposin and Visma and Ineos, each won three stages. And then Little Threck and Red Bull and Grupaima won one. 17 teams did not win, or 16 teams did not win a stage. everybody welcome back to the move podcast i'm spencer martin i'm here with joan brineal we are holding down the fort at the move while everyone's on there they're their late summer vacation but we'll be breaking down

the volta espania which we just watched and covered in detail day by day johan but just to catch everybody up if you've not been watching the show well first let's take a quick ad break and then i'll catch everybody up so we'll be right back after we hear from these sponsors hey everybody this episode of The Move is brought to you by NordVPN. I love NordVPN. You can use it for all types of things. You can use it for extra security when you're logging on to your bank account or email on public Wi-Fi. But my favorite thing to use it for is watching cycling, no matter where I am on my favorite services.

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Thank you so much. All right, let's get into the show. All right, Johan, well, the winner of the overall, Jonas Vindigard, the pre-raised favorite. It finishes a minute 16 in front of Zrelameda from YoAE, Team Emirates, XRG, who finished the second. Tom Pickock's shocking result, I think, in third place. at 311. Jai Henley and fourth at 341.

Matthew Rickettello, the American, at 555, wins the Young Jersey classification. Mads Pedersen wins the points classification handily over the Jonas Vindegard. J. Vine on UAE wins the KOM classification. And then the most important classification teams, of course, won by UAE over team Vis Malisa Bike. There's no race to break down from yesterday, Johan, because the protests in Madrid, I had feared that it wouldn't be able to run. It was not able to run. We'll get into that and like where the sports going in the future.

But I had actually forgotten that we started this race in Italy. That seems like a lifetime ago. So I'm going to run through the stage winners and then I'm going to ask you for your takeaway of this race. If you can remember back in Torino, Jasper Phillips and wins the sprint gets the first leaders jersey, the race. And then we should have seen it coming. Jonas Vindigard wins the first up he'll finish, takes the red jersey. David Go Do, I also forget about this one.

one, stage three, really impressive maneuver to win over, I believe, Matt's Pedersen and Yonis Fendergard, Ben Turner from Ineos wins stage four, UAE wins the time trial on stage five. Jonas gets the jersey back from David Godot. And then Jay Vine wins from a breakaway on stage six. Torsten train from Bahrain, victorious, takes the red jersey there. Juso wins the next day from another breakaway. Jasper Phillips and wins the sprint stage is the last one before stage 19 on stage eight. Jonas Vindigard wins the uphill finish on stage 9.

The summit finish where he took, I believe, his biggest gap. It was not a difficult uphill finish, but he took his biggest G.C. gap there right before the first rest day. Coming out of the rest day, J. Vine wins again on stage 10. Stage 11 in Bilbao. Tom Pickok, Jonas Vindigard coming into the finish, and there's no winner. Picard, maybe probably would have won. So, UAE is back at it again. Wins on stage 12.

Stage 13, another U.A.N. UAE win. Jeal Meda wins on Le Angerlou. Maybe the toughest climb of the race. I'm not quite sure. Maybe stage 20. Mark Soler, another UAE win on stage 14. Mads Pedersen wins out of the breakaway on stage 15.

Stage 15, super impressive performance there. Egan Bernal wins the shortened on the road, stage 16. Giulio Pellizari wins stage 17. Summit finish where he clipped away from the GC group. Philippe Bagano wins the individual time trial on stage 18. Jasper Phillips and wins the sprint stage on stage 19. Jonas Vinegard wins the uphill finish. The balladamundo on stage 20 opens a like a 20-ish second on the road gap,

gets 10 bonus seconds, wraps up his overall win. Tom Pickock defends his third place. Matthew Rickettselo jumps into fifth and gets the white jersey. But Johan, what is your takeaway of this Vuelta, Espania? There's a lot. There's a lot to say about the Vuelta. And we're going to get a bit more in details about, you know, the circumstances that surrounded this and this Volta. But I think my takeaway is that the big pre-race favorite won the race, Jonas Wingergarde.

He was the huge favorite. The big pre-race challenger, Jao Almeida, finished second. And then the surprising third spot of Tom Pitcock, I think nobody expected him to be. in third and then you know i mean listen at least there was suspense i think in in during the whole race there was never a stage to say okay now it's over you know it was actually until stage 20 before stage 20 we still thought that there could be a change in in the leader's jersey so that that was good for the race and then also spencer one of my observations is that only seven teams won stages in this in this welta you know you won seven seven stages seven stages for one team that's

it's been a while um opposite in visma and in aos each won three stages uh and then little track and red bull and grupama won one 17 teams did not win or 16 teams did not win a stage um so yeah in a nutshell i think that's uh that's it and um yeah as you said you know pederson the expected winner of the of the green jersey um you're his strongest team nice to see matthew ricketto come you know into stepping a big step forward i think in his career uh finishing fifth in in the in the in the volta and and winning the white jersey the young classification on the last stage which was nice um and j vine and king of the mountains second year in a row no because he also won it last year, I think.

But yeah, I mean, I think that it's, I think everybody leaves the Vuelta and especially the spectators with a unsatisfied feeling, I think, because, you know, we had these protests looming over the race during three weeks and we never knew, you know, when a stage was going to be able to be held or not or whether it was going to be able to finish at the right place. And then yesterday, it all came to a mess in Madrid where even 1,500 extra police men couldn't control the situation. That was really a shame. And I really feel for the guys, you know, especially the guys who have been fighting for three weeks. And, you know, you win a grand tour, Jonas. You win the green jersey in Peterson. You win the King of the Mountains. You win the white jersey.

and you are not able to celebrate it. You don't have the podium. You know, this iconic picture on the Castellana in front of the post office building, which is a really nice building. It's a beautiful picture that everybody wants to have. And now I saw that they had, I mean, at the initiative of Visma, they organized an improvised podium ceremony on the parking lot of the hotel. That's really too bad.

That's too bad. Yeah. I can't imagine. I felt so bad for the riders yesterday. I mean, we'll talk. I have questions about why that stage even got started because you said 1,500 police, but you look at the scenes, they needed a million police. And there's just no amount of police that could have kept people off the road.

It didn't seem totally safe for them to even go there. They probably just turned around and rode back to the airport, I guess. I don't even, because they couldn't get to their team buses. But we'll talk about that later in the episode. I kind of want to talk about, I want to make sure we cover the racing before we move on. do the sadness I did I was going to these stages and I was thinking wow this this racing was actually pretty good but this race as a whole was probably less than the sum of its parts because as you said you're it was always looming over like is a stage going to get canceled like where's

the finish line are they going to be able to do this climb I do think they probably overused the uh uniperto stage profile seemed like that was every other stage and I was just listing the winners there felt like half of those winners were one on rolling stages that finished on a final climb oftentimes not even you would say not difficult enough too like it looked on paper like it'd be tough and then it's like well it's not the juice isn't worth the squeeze so no one's going to make the race hard and just it felt a little like we were at groundhog day just the same stage over and over again i will say yonis venegard we should give this man some credit and people are saying we're too critical of them but this guy wins his i don't think

I don't think we've been critical of him, Spencer. I mean, I think sometimes some people sometimes read differently into certain comments. You know, like when we list, let's say, yeah, Jonas is a double to the France winner. You know, it's logical that he wins. And then you say, yeah, you know, he's a pretty good writer, which is a sarcastic way of saying he's damn good writer. And some people sometimes say, you know, you're too hard on Jonas. I don't think we're, I think he's, you know, I think we're applauding him. I mean, he's, he was the favorite and he was not 100% and still wins the VALTA.

It's an amazing performance. I mean, SEP Kuz said he was having trouble breathing in the second week. You're like, that's kind of a flex on your rivals. Like, yeah, I could barely breathe. I didn't get dropped at any point, though, or losing a significant time and I won the overall. But his last seven grand tour starts, this is not even finished. It starts, our second, first, first, second, second, second, second, first. It's unbelievable.

Has not finished off the second step of a podium at a grand tour overall since 2020, his first ever grand tour, which was the Fulta, oddly. But this guy is unbelievable. And I actually going back through and calculating that like where he took time, he really kind of won this race in the first few stages, you know, like he came in strong, pushed his advantage. He had a 38 second lead by like the first. first, you know, after those first two summit finishes and then he, I do wonder if this is

the grand tour where we finally put to bed like, oh, these gaps are small, but they'll get bigger in the mountains because they actually didn't, they actually get smaller in the mountains because that's the variables are less. So you, if everyone's at roughly the same fitness, it's harder to open gaps. Really, the fruitful areas to open gaps where those mild ish uphill finishes, high speed uphill finishes, it's called them in Italy outside of Torino. And the first. week. And then a couple of the time trials, some time changed hands. But it was really like it was the grand tour of like fine margins almost. And I thought that's where Jonas kind of shined above the rest who are very good riders. But it was like very clear at this race like, oh, there's a reason this

guy wins a lot and almost never finish. And also Spencer, if you look at if you look at the situation now in hindsight, right? We, we. And I think it's logical that, you know, there's there's one big favorite. And people always are waiting until the big favorite cracks and if the underdog can take it. I think that's natural reaction. But Jonas has been in trouble once. I mean, I wouldn't say really in trouble because he got dropped a bit, a tiny bit from Tom Pitcock, who is not his direct rival. Yeah. But other than that, he has never, ever, ever lost any time to Jaya, except the time trial.

you know and that was 10 seconds so he had this under control man it was you know he did he didn't have the the condition and the strength to to make a big difference but he he was never actually under under pressure where it was you know holding on for dear life that has never been the case and i think we as spectators are trying to see oh you know let's see if now finally the underdog can make life difficult for the big favorite. But it actually has never happened. Whenever, I mean, I think the, the Angiru, I think is the hardest climb. And he, but, you know, he was never, ever on the verge of getting dropped, I think.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good point. He did not get dropped by his main G.C. rival at any point. Going through, actually, was surprised. I made a great race, right, to finish 116. how his best also his best ground tour result ever let's not forget that yeah you know that's also one of the things we can say okay i'll made a great rider he's he had a great season he won three you know big one-week stage races this year had been on the podium of the chiro but

he's never been higher than third and you just listed seven top two results from your own so you know it's kind of logical it's pure mathematics you know We're like, we're veering into American television of, like, reductionism of like, there's winners and losers in sports and Jonas is a winner, but it kind of is like that. Like, this guy just, he just wins. And Alameda was close, as you say, I mean, to finish second to Jonas, that's not finishing second to all due respect Simon Yates at the at the Giro. This is like one of the best in the last two decades, stage racers. But Jamal Amata, is it fair to say, looking at the year? back on this world that he's a defensive writer and the problem is he was never in the lead so he's

able to defend very well but he can only play defense against someone but it's also i think one of the differences between for example a joa almeida and let's say italia pogachar uh is in terms of rival for yonas is that ummaida is actually the ideal rival for yonas because he doesn't have that acceleration. Whenever whenever he wins or tries to make a difference, it's by riding his own tempo and really, really fast. And then he basically asphyxates his rivals and has a good sprint, right? Whereas Bogachar has his explosive and, you know, makes a gap and then can maintain the gap or even extend the gap. So I think that for, for Jonas Zingega was the ideal arrival. You know, obviously he made him suffer, but he was never dropped because

Almeida is this type of writer first. He backs off a bit. He gets his tempo and he goes faster and faster and faster. And, you know, if Almeida's fastest rhythm will almost always be, if not ever, a good, a good rhythm for Jonas. Yeah. And he's kind of like a football team that They're amazing at defending, and then they go one down, and then it's like, ooh, now they have to try to play catch up, but they're great. Also, we need to say also, Spencer, you know, for, and let's not forget to, to, props to, to Visma. They were short, one rider very early in the race, so Axel Zangler dropped out, and then from mid, mid-race on, Victor Kampenards, who actually got sick. And yesterday I heard, I was at the race of my son and somebody told me there who has a good relationship with Victor that he actually went home out of precaution to not, you know, make the other riders sick, especially Jonas. So, you know, they did the race with the last part of the race with six riders, basically with two riders, I would say.

He was Calderman and Van Barle, who did an amazing job, amazing job to control this race. Yeah, I mean, I guess that fortune was in their favor because they didn't have to do anything on stage 20, but I frankly had forgotten they were down two riders by stage 20. They were so strong. And I was just going to say, I feel like Visma does, they always make, they're very good at common sense. It's like they're a step ahead when it comes to like victory. going home early. That kind of makes sense.

Like cost-benefit analysis. But this brings us right into our partner today. Common sense. Common sense, Spencer, even to the extent that thanks to Visma, there was a podium celebration of the two of Spain. True. They even took that initiative. Mr. Plugo over there, he's got a head on his shoulders, always thinking.

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it boosted average sprint power by 19%. I need to use this, by the way, by the way. I could get my power up 19% in the sprint. I'd be cruising. Peak power by 13% cut fatigue by 10% and spiked blood ketones five times in just 20 minutes aided with faster recovery. And as Gabriel pointed out, our producer at the tour, we can get a little bogged down in the afternoons. He was using the ketone IQ classic shot and reported not feeling that afternoon balk when you're sitting at the computer trying to get a bunch of shows out. and if you need a little bit more, they have the ketone IQ plus caffeine with 100 milligrams

of caffeine with 5 grams of ketones, 5 grams of ketones, and it just gives you a little bit more extra kick. So if you want to take your shot, get 20% off your order at ketone.com slash the move and use code, the move at checkout to get 20% off. But Johan, Vismo was great. We were pretty critical. I thought the team we were most critical of was UAE throughout the space. we were often confused by their tactics.

They finished with seven stage ones, second overall. Looking back, maybe the team classification plus the KOM. Yeah, the most important one. We forgot that. But yeah, KOM teams, looking back, I do kind of struggle with their like logic premises. But I think in terms of outcome, this is probably the best outcome they could have gotten. I think so. I think so, you know, I think, you know, as we said in another public.

Spenser, you know, you can talk about tactics and strategies all day long. I don't think that any other tactics would have changed the result. I just think that and they probably don't care, right? I just don't think it didn't look good when, you know, you have one leader and then you have these all these free agents running around and going for stage wins and then not being there the day that they had to be there. Would it have made a difference? I'm going to say no.

It wouldn't have made a difference. And it's probably also because, you know, we are here sitting behind our screens and looking at our TVs and judging and trying to analyze. But they know what the worth and the value and the power numbers of the riders are. And maybe they knew all the Valka long. It was going to be extremely difficult for Jowal-Meda to drop Jonas. Then on the other hand, you can say, okay, you know, in the case of UAE, why should they care about seven stages? Why should they care about the KOM?

Why should they care about the King of the Mountains? Let's try to win a grand tour with someone who's not the Pogacchar. That would have been great. But, hey, at the end of the day, man, it's a pretty good VALTA for them. you know second overall seven stage wins they you know they remain uh you know the strongest team by far by far in pro cycling right now and um there's not much i think it's i think it's more the criticism has been more about the behavior of certain riders rather than the tactics and we don't know actually if the tactics were a and then some riders

said or did be we don't know that right i mean i would think there was some kind of disagreement early on but especially with ayuso you know but that was kind of outside of the race with that press release and and then iusso going for stage wins and not being there uh when he needed to be there but you know on stage 20 they were all there they were all there they all did what they had to do and there was nothing to be done against yonnas so um Which other stages could they have done something differently? You know, we're in, we're here to talk about, you know, strategies and what's good, what's not good. But if you, if you, if you put it all together, it's, you know, you have to have the, the, the legs.

And that's, sometimes it's a lot more simple than we try to analyze or overthink. Yeah. And I thought on stage 20, it almost was it, it, it made me rethink what I was. saying a lot of the times because they did everything right quote unquote but then you even saw with like vine does this like death surge which with pagachar's there what it does i believe is it it puts everyone behind over threshold so there if they follow pagachar they blow up pagachar better so he's not blowing up and then he can drop them but when you have almeda and vinaigard stronger that's only helping vinaigard exactly it doesn't have to and if you

look at it, one of his biggest gaps was on the stage where UAE worked really hard all day. So you can kind of, if you say they know this, they have access to the power numbers. And they even got beaten by another teammate, but another Visma. Visma was one and two and UAE did all the work, you know. So, yeah, we tend to overthink the, you know, the importance of certain strategies. yeah i mean we have to right yeah we have to we would have a show and then in retrospect j vine going hard on stage 18 didn't really affect him and that would have been pretty badass to win that time trial over filippo gana yeah i'm still looking back like that's imagine one second yeah

it was but then just a couple questions for you that i have bounced around in my head so jemal made it second very good race his best grand tour ever and yon it as we I think also the best ever result for Portugal in a grand tour in history. Whoa. I think there's one rider. I know once he was, I know he was once third in the tour. There was a writer in the 80s. It was called Joachim Agostino was a super, super strong rider.

Unfortunately, died very, very early. In the last season of his career, he was in 39 or 40. He crashed in the tour of Portugal. I remember watching this as a kid because, you know, Agostino was this super strong. He was, he was massive. I mean, if you Google him, you'll see he was not, he was like a rock.

He was, you know, very solid, big guy, super strong. Third in the tour sometimes was up there with Eddie Marks. And sometimes with Bernardino, I think, in the early 80s. And so I think this guy got second ones. in a ground tour but it could also be that it's the first time that it's somebody in portugal is second in a ground tour so that's pretty big and so would you say it's fair to say is jemala made it the third best grand tour gc rider currently racing um based on based on current performance and recent performance i would say yes i would say yes uh

Then if you look at the results, I would say no, because I mean, I think the current, the current third best rider is probably, should be Simon Yates, because he won the Vuelta and he won the Gero. And Bernal won the tour and the Gero, but Bernal is not anymore at the level he was before his accident. But I would say, you know, currently with, and the potential he has, I think Almeida is probably the third best. writer. And that, I agree. Yeah, well, no, no, sorry. I'm going to take that back, actually. I think it's Primos.

Oh, man. I think it's Prymos. How fast do we forget? Do we do forget? I think, though, and I don't know what was going on at the tour, but it's kind of hard for me to, I don't quite know what the future holds for Primos. Well, I mean, listen, Primos, the tour, I don't think we can just Primos on the tour. He went all in for the Gero, crashed.

Unfortunately, Primo's crashes often, but if you look at his Palmaris, I mean, come on, he's won. What did he win four times or five times? Four times, no? How many times did it? Four times he won the Gero once. I think he's won this four times. I don't, yeah, I think it's four. Yeah, he's equal with, he's equal with Roberto Herreras now. I guess the prim, I guess I should have qualified my questions.

You know, let's say these guys are all lined up for the tour next year on. different teams and you have to pick one, two, three, like the finish order, I might put Almeida above Primos, like in 2026. Well, yeah. Yeah. I agree it's tough. It's not obvious the more I think about it. I mean, listen, now, Almeida's second now beaten by the second best stage racer in the world.

And he had a great team around him. So, you know, and he, I would say also, it's difficult to judge Spencer because I don't think you can say that Almeida had an ideal preparation to the Vuelta because he crashed really, really hard into the Tour de France. And it took a long time for him to recover from the injuries, broken ribs or, you know, bruised ribs or whatever. So, but anyway, who had an ideal preparation? Jonas didn't because he was tired from the tour. Pitcock, you could say Pitcock maybe had the best preparation, but it was not, it was not, his season wasn't focused around the Vuelta. His season was focused on the classics.

Then he did some mountain biking. Then he did the Giro. You know, so who was, who had the best preparation here? And that's the typical situation always of the Vuelta. The Vuelta is the second or the third chance for the people who haven't. been able to be successful in their main exam earlier in the season. And, well, okay, that takes me to my next question, preparation. I thought Pitcock, yeah, it actually aligned pretty well for him.

But someone else that I thought would be better prepared that was not, want to you so. Like, so he crashes out of this, didn't, yeah, he crashes in the Giro, leaves with a bee sting, but his knee was clearly bothering him. He has all summer to prepare for the Vuelta. the team says he's a co-leader with Juala Amada and then shows up, gets dropped on the first mountain stage and then says, well, I'm not prepared. I'm not a leader. Yeah, I think I think it's a logical, logical explanation for that, Spencer. I think it was never the plan. It was not the plan for Amada, for Arusa to do the Giro. I think I saw somewhere earlier in the season a statement from UAE and I would suspect that things were still, I'm going to say more or less okay. we don't really know, right, what the situation was between UAE and Ayuso. I think there's two different things there in with Ayuso. So there's the situation between the team, boss and riders and Ayuso.

And then there's a situation, Machin Ayuso, which is a good relationship. So I think for Machin, it's also really difficult. Marchen is the sports manager, right? But in the case of Ayuso, UAE put out a statement sometime that they said they wouldn't have their young riders do two grand tours in one season. So it was not a plan.

And I think while Ayuso was, so he abandoned the Giro, he didn't do the tour. And it was initially the plan that Pogacar would do the Vuelta. And Pogacar, I think, decided probably in the last week of the tour that he, He was for sure not going to the Vuelta because he was sick of it. Yeah. And then I think it came between as a negotiation that Ayuso would do the Vuelta.

See how it goes. In the middle of all these negotiations for him to leave the team, you know, he was not prepared. End of story. You know, not physically and especially not mentally. His mind is already. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a good point. Which, by the way, is going to be a little. track. I saw that he's on the verge of, I mean, it's not official, but I think we can say it here with pretty high certainty that he's going to sign with Little Trek for five years. Didn't you say, why do these guys do these long-term contract? I don't know. I think I, I just, I am blown away. It's, you know, why would you sign five years if you're dealing with riders, with agents who as soon as something doesn't go right, they look for an out. I mean, this, I think there's, there's enough precedence now.

You know, there's Remko who leaves early on this, on his contract. There's a usual. There's contracts being broken, like, legally in Belgium, Eutobrugs and Maxim van Gilles terminate their contract legally. So why would you sign five years? I mean, five years is a long time. And so let's say you're going a little track. It's the, and I said, I think at the start of the Volta, maybe this was a private conversation,

that the Volta is extremely predictive of the next year. So Vineyard's great, right? We knew it was great. But Almeida looks, ooh, like this guy's, he's building confidence. He's getting better. He's got second. Tom Pickuck, that guy could be a GC podium contender for a while. Jai Henley is back.

Matthew Rickettel is turning up. Giulio Pelazari looks fantastic. Sixth overall in his second grand tour of the year. as a 21-year-old. Sette Kuz looks great. Felix Gall looks great. Tired from the tour still finishes 8th. Mateo Jorgensen, tired from the tour, finishes 10th, not what he wanted, but he's good.

He could podium a grand tour. It's actually like not, doesn't look great. It's becoming a crowded market if you want to go be a G.C. leader somewhere. Like, there's a lot of good riders. Think about Jai Henley. See the fourth, fifth. Think of a Rimcoe, Evinopol. Where do you even stand on the G.

he put total pole at Bremus and Simon Yates. Yeah. So it's tough, tough living. Lipowitz, yeah, coming up. So, man, that's that, talk about not remembering stuff. Lipowitz, third at the Tour de France. Wow. But Mike, the thing I was going to ask you, the last question before we move on,

will Joalameda win a grand tour in his career? I think he has it definitely in him. I think he can win a Giro. He can win a Vuelta. Tour de France, it's different. And as long as he's on UAE, he's not going to win the tour when Pogacha goes for it. But listen, he's up there with the three, four top riders in G.C. And he seems to be a great teammate whenever Pugachar is there, seems to get along really, really well with Pogacar.

So I think he can win a grand tour. next year maybe the Giro why not he was third already yeah I think he if he's healthy at the Gero this year like that's that's the race he probably would have won that type of grand tour where it's not Pagotcha or not

but you know another guy I really I really want to touch a bit on on Tom Pitcock Spencer I think nobody would have thought that he would be third in this Welta not even himself not his team I think you know they were they were trying for a GC top 10 maybe top five third position the way he held on

he had a few difficult stages but he did not crack at all and so my question is now you know what's next and what's the future for Tom Pitcock in terms of stage racing and grant tours this was a hard welta you know this the competition I mean look I mean finger guard multiple grand tour winner almeida now multiple to the front uh tour grand tour podium hindley grand tour winner uh he's up there with these guys so will we now see pitcock make a shift in his mind and try to see where his limit is in grand tours and i think he kind of hinted a bit this could also obviously be the the high the high of the moment but after after the race, he said, yeah, you know, I mean, I now start the thing that maybe I can win

a ground tour one day, which I personally think Pitcock is one of the biggest talents in cycling. It's just a matter of him focusing purely on stage racing. And I think if he does one or two seasons focusing on stage racing and long climbs and recovery, this guy, if there's one guy who can add his name to the elite of the few big ones, the big three, the big four, whatever, I think it's Tom Pitcock. Yeah, I agree. I actually think this is going to help him in non-grand tour goals.

I do want to talk about that on the other side of the break. But in terms of GC, Tom Pitcock, very good, getting third here. Here's something I didn't quite realize until I looked at it, wrote it all down. So he's not, he's on Q36.5. if that's probably the first obstacle. And you think, like, well, they're well-funded team. They're good. What's the problem?

Do you know how many of the last nine grand tours? How many of those were won by teams that are not Visma or UAE? Of the last nine. So that's the last three years. Yeah. Well, I'm going to guess none, right? One. You don't remember it because it's Primo's on a different team.

Primus, yeah. Yeah, Primo's on Rackville, yeah. Vizma's won five of the last seven Vultas. And then one of those is a fake Visma because Primo's won one of those. And then one goes the other one. Like it's actually, and then this rivalry between, you think of the rivalry as between Vindigard and Pagachar, it's actually really between Vizma and UAE because, you know, they've won what, Vizma's won five of those nine, UAE's won three.

All those are Pagachar. But if you go back to the Giro this year, that was Vizma versus Yoi, Simon Yates versus Isaac del Toro, and then at the Vulta, Vinaigard versus Almeda. So it actually is like, I didn't quite realize how good this rivalry was, but also that the grand tours are just won by the same two teams. It's kind of shocking to see. Yeah, yeah. It's quite impressive.

Yeah. But let's take a quick break. And then I do want to talk about Tom Pickock. And I think this sets them up for world championships quite well. Everybody, this episode is brought to you by aging. The Daily Foundational Nutrition Supplement that supports whole body health, I drink AG1 every day because I was tired of taking supplements and wanted a single solution that supports my entire body and covers my nutritional bases every day. I would need it better gut health, a boost in energy, immune system support, and I'm terrible at taking vitamins, pills, and frankly eating my greens, if I must admit. Every morning I come down, I have my AG1 canister in the fridge.

I got my little AG1 mixer. I just dump it in with some water, shake it up, drink it. I'm on the treadmill, and I'm feeling great and giving my body the nutrition it craves and all you have to do. If you want to try AG1 yourself, head to drinkag1.com slash the move to get a free welcome kit, including a bottle of vitamin D and five AG1 travel packs. That's a $76 value when you first subscribe. That's drinkag1.com slash the move.

and, and AG1 has leveled up even more with their AG1 next gen. It's an upgraded formula that's been clinically proven to increase healthy gut bacteria by 10 times, all for the same price of less than $3 per day. So remember, head to drinkag1.com slash the move for 10% off. Okay, Johan, you're talking about Tom Pickcock, finishing third. I think a break, personally, I think a breakthrough ride for this guy. Just to get through a race, it was talking about IU so, like, I don't like that he, you know, once you sit up and you're not in the GC, it's hard to transform back into a GC rider.

Well, Pitcock did that because now he's proven, like, later in his career that he can ride for GC in a great tour. Later, he's still young. But he actually, well, he's the same age. What's funny is like, all these guys are roughly the same age. And we're talking about people talk about Pagotcha retiring. And I'm like, well, he's the same age as Remko and Pitcock, basically. Like, yeah, I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon. But I think we're talking about the GP Montreal.

that we watched this weekend. Fantastic race, both Quebec and Montreal. Like, I would say put American, if you could even say American bike racing exists anymore, like those two races look fantastic

and are doing great. But Brandon McNulty won. Teddy Pagachar kind of let him win. They crossed the line together at Montreal. But we were saying, we're really reaching here at this point,

though, we're saying, Pegacha did not, I don't think he looked as strong as he did last year at these races. before he won Worlds in Zurich. They're going to Kigali and the race is in two weeks, less than two weeks, unless I'm mistaken, and it's at altitude at 5,000 feet.

Who amongst these people, I don't know if anyone looks incredibly well prepared, except I think this Vuelta is like perfect preparation for Tom Piccock. But it's also not altitude training. They have been at altitude a bit, but, listen, I think Pitcock is somebody that for the World Championships needs to be reckoned with, you know, it's obviously not, nobody can say with this form that this course is too hard for Pitcock. There is no way. I mean, it's perfect for him. Yeah. It's even actually, I think it's great because the climbs are, there's a lot of climbing, but it's a lot of repetition. So the climbs are not extremely long, maybe two, two and a half

kilometers max i don't know i haven't really analyzed the course but it's not like mountain passes right it's not super super long climb so um listen in this four man i think pitcock could be a rival for i mean normally listen pogacha has an almost identical trajectory compared to last year won the tour i think last year finished the tour with more energy than this year um but then he started started back in Quebec and Montreal, Quebec, he tried to win, finished seventh, and then Montreal he won dominantly. This year he did the same. He tried to attack once, didn't work, finished further down. Yesterday attacked at exactly the same lap as last year, two laps to go. Then, you know, Brandon McNulty dropped Quinn Simmons and, you know, stayed there at 15 seconds until Pogacar waited for him.

it's difficult to say he's up there he's at that close to that level is he i think it's more a mental and freshness case than than physical condition uh but but he won't win every year i mean it's it's it's it's it's it's it's bike racing you know it's not a guarantee uh everybody thinks the world is going to show up at the race and uh he's going to win whenever it's hard I mean, he won't win every year. And maybe this year he doesn't win and somebody else will win. And that person could for sure be Tom Pitcock. Yeah.

I mean, Worlds is the weirdest of all the races. I'd quite like it because it's just, it's strange, right? Even think of Flanders, a fantastic race. It's become formulaic. You know, it's like we know exactly. Everyone knows exactly when they have to expend a certain amount of energy. World, they just like cook up a new route. every year.

And then even when they cook it up, it's kind of ambiguous. I'm looking at a lot of information about this route. I don't think anyone's a reconded. There is one longer climb 6K long at 7% in the middle of the race. That's not on the local laps. That's in the middle of the race. No, that's on the extended lap. And those local laps, you know, they wear people out.

Like think about Scotland. Who would have thought in Glasgow? And the distance, Spencer, I mean, the world championships is, what is it? 260, 270? Basically 270. D. I'm seeing, is it correct, 5,000 meters of climbing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's 5,000 meters climbing. I think it's over. It's like 5,300. That's a lot of climbing.

Yeah. But I think what Pitcock has held him back in years past is like not having that depth sometimes. And, you know, it's a great rider and he would kind of get burned off in these harder races by guys like Pagachar. But guys like Pagaccha, Tatea Pagacch. There's only one. But I think, man, coming out of this wealthy, he looks robust. He looks very fit. I would not write him off for worlds. I know this isn't outcomes for worlds. Another observation, Spencer, it's a shame that Jonas Wingergaard is not going to the world. Yeah.

This is a great course for him too. I mean, yes, it's true that Jonas is not famous for great performances in one-day races. I think he only won one one-day race in his career, actually. don't remember which one day race it's not world tour it is i believe it's one of remember these early season french races the name the drome classic i think that's the only but it's obviously also because he's not because he can't win them it's because he just doesn't focus on them and he just not motivated for them and he knows that his strength is in in state races but uh it would be great to see yonas and today and

I mean, Primos is going. Let's not forget about Primos. Careful with Primos in the world. Pitcock. Remtow. Is Primos been altitude training? I don't know, but he's, for sure. I mean, he's, it's possible.

If he's not prepared, he wouldn't, he would, I don't think he would be a candidate, uh, himself to go to the world. So I think he has a house at altitude in the Alps too. So he, he might actually be out there. correctly preparing when no one else is. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I would love Jonas to the scene.

But, you know, I mean, he's done the tour. He's done the Vuelta. The Vuelta. He carried a bit of illness. Looked like, okay, he was good enough to win, but not dominant. So I can also understand that that at some point, you know, you say, hey, I don't want to drag this on for another two or three weeks, you know. Yeah, it is a shame.

I wish he was doing it. He's doing European championships. You see what that's not? That's weird. That's weird. Where are the European championships? They're in France. These are not, these UCI run races are not so easy to find information about.

It does not list the location. Anyway, listen, the European championships. That's an artificial event. It might be in. Where is in? French Lemberg, is that a thing? No, French Lemberg, no. No.

It's so, wow, where is it? Privas, is the... Privas, that's in France. Okay. It's in France. But, yeah, I mean, the fact that we don't know, the fact that there's no information about it, it's, it's an event that is there to keep the European Cycling Federation alive, which isn't needed. You know, it doesn't need to exist the European Cycling Federation.

It's just another one of those administrations that's there for the sake of existing. But I mean, not saying, okay, when you have the European jersey as a writer, you're the European champion, you know, which is nice. But there's other continental champions, you know, there's the American, is it the American or the Pan American? champion I don't want to comment on there's the African one there's the Asian one I mean nobody knows who they are

I would say not necessary I don't think they add to the grassroots growth the sport or development but they're there nonetheless I guess if he thought he could win he would probably go he must not think he can win I mean it could be that we see Jonas next year being

riding around all year long in the European champion jersey. Why not? Yeah. When is it? When is it actually? It says October 5th, 10.5. Wow.

That's late. That is late. Can that be right? Good luck with that. Good luck with that date and getting a proper competitive field at the start. You know? Well, that is kind of weird actually now that it is October 5th. I feel like it didn't used to be that late.

It's clearly a well-run event that we. We know a lot about it's an artificial event that's there for the sake of existing. It means nothing. Yeah, there's quite a few of those. Yeah. Speaking of, and then, I mean, it's sad. I wish she was going. But it's also not that close.

Like if you were like, hey, do you want to go to Kigali and Rwanda? Did I just finish the tour in the VALTA? I might say, I'm going to pass on that. Yeah, it takes, it takes extra preparation. Need to be there on beforehand, you know, I mean, there's not that. much time difference with with europe but it's this it's i mean it's time difference for the guys who come from canada uh not that i'm i'm going to assume that pogachar and the u i mean the europeans who went to canada they didn't even take the time to adjust to the time zone from there it's just

better to do the races get it over with and get back and stay on the european time zone because it fits better for for africa Yeah, Pagatja, it's like, you come back from Europe, you're waking up at like 4 a.m. You're like, I'm just a 4 a.m. guy now. This is when I wake up. 8 p.m. comes around. But this is Spencer, we didn't. I think we have to, we have to talk about it, you know, about the Vuelta, these protests, man.

Yeah. It's what a shame, what a shame for the Vuelta, what a shame for the riders. What a shame for the sport of cycling. That this has happened. And, you know, and I know that. people are sometimes careful of you know like it seems that if you you cannot have an opinion about it or you're getting judged as whatever pro israel or pro this or pro that i just think it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's protests at these races um we've said already beforehand

you know cycling is accessible the most accessible sport uh there is on the public roads during a very very long distance, uncontrollable. But man, this has gotten out of hands here in Spain. And, you know, no stage yesterday, no podium. I'm sad for the riders. And whoever wants to protest for any cause, they can do it in a different way. They, you know, they did put the safety in danger many times of the riders. Oh, yeah. Think of the bottom of the climb on stage 20.

Yeah. And then, you know, then you have, I mean, I live in Spain and the president of Spain, Pedro Sanchez, coming out with a statement like, you know, yesterday he was somewhere at an event in Andalucia and I saw his speech. And actually, I was watching it in the car. And my son said, you know, that he says, he says, this is not true. This is AI. I said, no, this is true. And he said, no, this is AI. It's not. not possible. Then when we came home, I looked at the speed. It's, it's true. The guy said, you know, today we had our national tour of Spain finishing. And this is the president of Spain. National tour finished, you know, a great job by the writers. You know, we respect the writers. But I really applaud all the protesters who, you know, who were present and, you know, applaud the Spanish people. And this is crazy, man. I mean, like, it's, it, it goes beyond the, the problematic of what's happening in Israel and Palestine and Gaza. This was political.

This was a political instrument used by the politicians here, because if you look at who was there, I'm going to say the majority of the people were protesting, didn't know what they're protesting for. They just were there for the sake of protesting for anything. And that's what's, you know, what's so sad. So let's hope that this doesn't go any further in other sporting events, but I'm afraid that cycling is the most vulnerable sport and that this will be repeated in the future. So, yeah, I mean, don't want to look too far ahead, but, you know, the Spanish people now, or these people who have organized these events, they see now it works.

Do you remember where the two of the France of next year starts? Yeah. Believa starts in Spain. It's Spain. Well, and even outside of the Spanish people, these specific protests, Mikhail Kiyakoski correctly said today that, like, well, now that's for the model's proven, that if you want to draw attention to anything, you can, you can shut down a bike race. Because you know, I mean, I read this interview of one of the, one of the, one of the, one of the, one of the support directors of Israel Premier Tech is Spanish. He's been there for a long time. And he gave an interview that, you know, he, I don't know, I think he's from the Basque country. I'm not sure, but I think he's from the Basque country. And, you know, he had already given certain interviews because, you know, he gave his testimony what they were enduring during the race. And he said, you know, we just want to do. our job, you know, the poor guy had to abandon the Vuelta in the last week and he'll go home to his family because his family at home was getting threatened for their father and

her husband being at the Vuelta at directing a team. Yeah, it's terrible. And these writers on like the team it's not obviously not fair and then i don't know the spanish prime minister came out today and said well if israel was banned from sport none of this would be a problem that's a simple solution but i i don't know if i mean setting aside just all of that i don't even know what what will sport change to the to the i mean listen i mean again you know people are careful to say what they what they think because with the i have absolutely i mean i don't have any fear of getting canceled or criticized i just say you know do it in a different way don't go protest at a bike race or at a sporting event it's bullshit it's bullshit and i i i you know it's it has

nothing to do with the core of the problem uh that's you know that's clear to me and what do people want do they want israel premier took the team to go away well what is that going to change what First of all, Spencer, let's not forget, for the people who who don't have any background, the team Israel Premier Tech is, first of all, it's not an Israeli team. It's a Canadian team, right? Well, it used to be Canadian. They are now, I believe, registered in Israel. Are they?

Okay. I didn't know that. I think we, that's easily changed. But it's a private person who invests money in a sports team, who has. happens to be Canadian-Israelian, right? Whatever. I mean, you can be in favor of the guy or against him or whatever. You know, he can like him or not like him, but let me tell you something.

And I don't want to go in too much, you know, problems or controversy. But if we would X-ray the majority of the teams in pro cycling and we just, this is just cycling, let's let's let's just not think and talk about other sports which are much bigger. if for the sake of or the principle of of fairness and you know and whatever happening in the world there would not be a lot of teams left in the pro peloton let me tell you there's every every organization has its pros and it cons and i think um okay they now they made the decision though israel is not in the name anymore so obviously that's for a reason uh at the end of the day it's a team and they have a license.

There's nothing against this team that can prohibit them for participating. As far as I know, there's for the moment nothing against any Israeli sports team, not even the national teams in any sports. They're participating everywhere. So why would you focus your energy and anger at a cycling team in the Tour of Spain? This is what I don't get. yeah a lot a lot to chew on there but let's just so this i'm worried about the future i'm worried about next year like can any races happen but well let's just say this let's say ASO goes to israel

premier tech goes to sylvan adams says hey man we can't this is not good we can't have this they come to an agreement the team is registered in canada it's called premier tech in 2026 just hypothetically are people okay with that i would assume no right and then it's just like well what what do you want them to do you do you just want them to go away and then i don't even think that would help you on like if there's no israel premier tech next year at the tour do we still have disruptive protests like is tour of flanders going to get shut down i'm concerned about all these races now my my question is spencer all the shit that has been made here by these protesters and i repeat the majority of the protesters don't even know what they're protesting for they're

there because they are part of a movement in Spain and they just want to disrupt whatever they can disrupt what will this change to the core of the horrible problems that's happening that that are happening in that part of the world it will change nothing it's a drop in the ocean I believe yeah I guess we're applying logic to something where there's not logic I have the same frustration. But here even, I'm not going to say their name, but there's a team, another team in this Welta that's owned by the richest person in Israel. No one's protesting them.

Also, there is a major Spanish soccer club sponsored by the richest person in Israel, not sponsored owned by. Go owned. And like, go owned. Co-owned. And do, like, there's no protesters blocking their bus from going to the games. It's just, I don't fully understand why cycling. I guess it's easy.

I guess it's an easy mark would. be there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Too bad. I mean, listen, I mean, it was a great race, but I think everybody leaves with a really sad and bitter taste that, you know, it didn't have to end this way. Yeah. And I was confused. Like, why did they even start this final stage? Obviously couldn't. And then Daniel Freeba, I thought it had a good perspective on it where it's like, well, the actual people working at the race, like the organizers are like, they're stressed. They're working their butts off total nightmare for them right and they're like not even in a frame of mind where they can even make balanced decisions because they're fried out also we we crap on the UCI a lot

in this podcast today i cannot believe a statement a statement just came out as we are recording but this is just an excerpt from it where this is i guess from david lapartian in some respects because he's the president my good friend david yeah our good friend in this case i i i just I actually on his side, but we regret that the Spanish prime minister and his government have supported actions that could hinder the smooth running of a sporting competition. And in some cases, express their admiration for the demonstrators. This position is contradictory to the Olympic values of unity, mutual respect and peace. It also calls into question Spain's ability to host major international sporting events. Like that is pretty serious.

But I mean, does the Volta run? I don't know. What happens to the Volta next year, Johan? Is it, do they move it to another country? This is a big mess that they've created. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think this is just the beginning.

Well, you need, I think you need to look at it, you know, in other countries, are these kind of protests actually even possible? Is the authority force able to act differently? You know, I think there's no fear factor here. The police was there, but they're not allowed to do anything. So it's a lot easier for the protesters to basically make a mess and, you know, make sure that nothing, that the riders, I mean, the amount of times they jumped on the road and, I mean, blocked the riders, touched the riders. I read some testimonials from from riders on other teams, even COVID-dis or they were called insulted spit-on, called murderers. I mean, this is crazy.

Got out of hand. It is out of hand. It is crazy. It makes no sense. As far as I don't think Bob Youngles is pulling any strings at the international level, but yet he's the one getting stopped on the Angreloo. Yeah. I mean, we're one trip away, too, from that guy was going to go into the Peloton and take down multiple riders going like 45K an hour.

But, yeah, the Tour de France, let's keep an eye on that. I'm quite curious to see what they do because that could be a problem if they start it as planned in Barcelona, but we'll keep our pulse on that. I did see the tour route comes out October 23rd, so I'm quite curious to see what that is. We'll be doing a show on it. Anything else, Johan, before we take off? No, when is our next show? Is it the world? No, you and I will be back on Friday.

Oh, okay. I regret to inform you with our weekly show, the move plus, which is one of my favorite shows that we do. Good. Yeah. Looking forward to. Thanks. Thanks, Johan, and we'll speak soon. Okay.

Thanks. Bye.