THEMOVE - Where Does Simon Yates Shock Retirement Leave Visma In 2026 Themove

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Spencer Martin and Johan Bruyneel discuss Simon Yates' sudden, and shocking, retirement, and, combined with Wout van Aert's injury, where it leaves Visma-Lease a Bike heading into the 2026 season. They also go through Derek Gee-West's official transfer to Lidl-Trek, Soudal's extension for five more years as a title sponsor, and ponder who the best French GC rider is going into 2026. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Huel: Get Huel's full High-Protein Starter Kit online with my code THEMOVE20 for 20% off at https://huel.com/THEMOVE20. New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Caldera Lab: A small habit with big results. Go to https://CalderaLab.com/THEMOVE and use code THEMOVE for 20% off your first order. Quince: Layer up this fall with pieces that feel as good as they look. Go to https://quince.com/themove for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too.

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And then we hear news. Simon Yates, 33 years old, winner of the Jirda, defending Jir de Talia champion, is retiring, which was a little shocking to me. I met the man in November. and then he you know we were seeing him right around with his visment team at training camp in December and then he's gone it everybody welcome back to the move plus our first weekly show of the 2026 year we will be breaking down i'm spencer martin i'm here with yoan bernil and we are breaking down the big news in pro cycling this week simoniate's retiring waltvinart surgery

on his ankle derrick g west signing with leadlech as well as a few listener questions it looks like I'm just back from Maui. It looks like Johann just moved to Maui, but he's actually in Morocco on a cycling trip. Very mysterious, very cool, Johan. I'm quite jealous, but. I'm in Marrakesh, Spencer, arrived yesterday here for a couple of days, cycling with friends.

Beautiful place, actually. I mean, I've never been. But the first impressions are really, really positive. And yeah, really, really, I mean, definitely something to explore further in the future. Yeah, it looks great. And it is, yeah, Marrakesha. I don't know why these Moroccan cities loom large in my imagination. Place I would want to go, I didn't know you could ride there.

So that's great to know. Definitely can ride. You can do a lot of climbing. You can go to, I mean, tomorrow I'm going to visit a place of a friend of mine here. It's 3,400 meters altitude. And you can actually ride properly on a really nice road until there. Yeah. Wow.

That's crazy. Yeah. Well, let's take a quick break to hear from today's partner, and then we're going to get right into this episode. Everybody, this episode is brought to by Huell. I've been trying to be one of those people who hit their protein goals every day, and sometimes are great. Others, I look up and realize I've just had carbs. That's why I've started using the high protein starter kit from Huell.

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All right, back into the episode. All right, Johan, so I think we'll talk about wow vandard and his broken ankle, and it connects to this first story as well. But we'll get to wow it later. We're all living our lives. We're excited for the season. And then we hear news, Simon Yates, 33 years old, winner of the Jirda defending Jir de Talia champion is retiring, which was a little shocking to me. I met the man in November. And then he, you know, we were seeing him right around with his Vizma team at training camp in December.

And then he's gone. It felt a little bit like McCauley and Al Pacino detective and Heat where he hears that Robert De Niro's gone on the lamb and he's like, I had coffee with him 30 minutes ago. Because I did not see this coming. Simon Yates was there. Then he was gone. The team saved some money because I don't have to pay him for the year. Got not ideal time to retire, though, because they can't really replace them with a like-for-like grand tour winning caliber rider. What were your thoughts when you heard this?

I was surprised. I would really surprise, especially because, you know, as you said, you know, training camps, the first training camps have happened already. They're making plans. I saw Simon also at the Giro d'Italia route reveal a few weeks ago. And he said he was excited or hoping to come back. Yeah. Yeah.

But anyways, you know, I kind of, I mean, that's all official statements that you make. But I can kind of put myself in his shoes. And then, you know, later on, I saw. a quote from his team actually I think saying that Simon made this decision because she finally decided that you know the life of a pro cyclist in today's cycling is becoming harder and harder I'm assuming he has a family and that you know the the rewards are not anymore in or the potential rewards are not anymore in the balance with all the you know sacrifices I can put myself in his situation

and understand it. So it's just the timing, you know, the timing. And I think sometimes it takes something to realize that that you need to make that decision. Was it the training camp that made him realize this? That, you know, everybody shows up every year fitter and fitter. As a more veteran rider, you tend to take your time a bit more and take it a bit easier. And he's, you know, he's entitled and allowed to do that.

And then on the other hand, you know, you can also say, well, hey, you know, I really stopped at the height of my career. You know, I won a grand tour. I said, okay, guys, adios, I'm out of here. I think it's a decision he made together with his family. Personally, I don't think the team was aware of it until probably a few weeks before he announced it. But it's definitely a surprise to me. And also it is, it is a huge loss for for VIII. Wismah.

As you say, Spencer, you know, he cannot be replaced at this moment. He was one of their leaders in the Gero, finally won it. Then he was a key rider in the tour, won a stage in the tour for Visma, which took off huge pressure. Don't know how many stages they won, but off the top of my head, I think they won two stages. It was Simon Yates and Role Barnard. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's correct.

You're not on a stage, no? No. No. So, yeah, it's not ideal, you know, because they lost some good riders. In the offseason, they lost Tish Penot, who's a key rider. I mean, he's obviously not Simon Yates in the malls, but he is a very solid teammate, who has his place in every, in any important race that Visma would be doing. You know, they lost Atila Valtar, who's a climber also.

Coloff Koi is leaving. Dill-Avombard left. So it definitely weakens. Woodrooks as well. Yeah, Oetobrooks left. I think they let him go because he still had a contract, your contract.

Would they have let him go had they known this was happening? I think so. I think so. I think with Oterbrooks, it's probably more a matter of, I mean, Othabrox obviously,

he's still a talent. you know, he's still young. But I think that he's probably not an easy guy to work with. He's extremely demanding on himself and also demanding on his environment and the fact that he left Bora, it was not Red Bull yet when he left, I think.

So he left Bora while he still had a contract. He moved to his dream team, Visma, and then found out that, you know, probably not my dream team. So I want to leave again. it's not great. It doesn't look great. But anyways, you know, I think Euttebruchs makes the choices that he thinks are the best for him.

So we'll see how he does at Movistar. But I think that would not have changed that decision, in my opinion. Because Otebriggs is a writer who, you know, he wants to go for his own chances in secondary races. Although it looks like he's going to be doing the Tour de France in 2000. 26. But yeah, I mean, it's surprise announcement. And, you know, I think I think that you can only, okay, accept it if you're in Vizma situation and the manager and say, okay, you know what?

We just have to, you know, accept the situation and build from here. There's not much we can do right now. And we just deal with it. Yeah. I mean, it actually makes me, it makes, you know, I sit here on my high horse and tell. teams what they should be doing. But this would be hard. If you're a team manager,

you're living your life, having a good time, seasons looking good. Oh, wait, one of your best riders, they're not going to be in this. They're not going to be riding this season.

That would be pretty disruptive to hear at this point in time. Do you know the, you just mentioned going out on top, do you know the last rider to retire while they're defending grand tour champion? Bradley Wiggots? No, no, no, had just won a grand tour.

Because remember Bradley raced. Yeah, Bradley went on for another year. You were the manager of this rider. I was the manager of this rider? I was Lance. Lance, yeah. 2005. It shows you how rare it is.

And it also, Simon Nadee should be commended too because he easily, let's say he showed up to Team Camp. It's hard. You're in a hotel, a fine hotel, but maybe you've seen enough of them. you're eating the same little breakfast food. You know, sometimes I was wondering when I was at these camps I was thinking, what do these guys do from 3 p.m. to when they go to bed?

Could be a little boring. You're thinking maybe there's more to life than this. He easily could have just mailed it in. I personally know someone that just mailed in the last year of their deal that recently ended and they were not good at all. He just could have said, eh, whatever, I'm going to get paid through the rest of the year. I'm not going to try that hard. But so in that way, this is good for the,

the team that they don't spend, let's say, three million euros paying him not to, if he's not motivated. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, listen, if that's his decision and that's, he has made up his mind, there's nothing you can do about it as team. You know, you can't try to convince him because

it's not going to work out. Once it's in his mind, it's game over. It's not going to change. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what, I mean, you could imagine being these camps and it being if you're motivated, if like, if you're Christian, like your son, you know, he would like love it. it would be all he's thinking about.

But if it was me, I might be like, I don't know. There's like a lot else going on in life. I'd rather do than this. So if you're in that mindset and Simon Yates is, you know, closer, close-ish to my age that maybe he thought this isn't great. But, uh, I think it's a family decision, you know,

I mean, it's his wife and does he have, he's, I think he has kids, no? Or, you know, that's the funny thing about Simon Yates.

He's so private. He's not prickly, but he's private. It's actually, I don't know that much about him at all. Let's see. He doesn't even have a personal life on his Wikipedia page. But it's one of the two brothers who has dogs.

I know that. I don't know which one of both. I know if it's Simon or Adam. But anyways, it's a decision that I think I can understand it. I can understand it. And it's, you know, you've reached. He knows that he has reached the top of his career. He won the Vuelta, he won the Gero.

There's nothing else that is on there that he can plan for to win. I mean, he can still win something, but it's going to come to him because of the circumstances, not because he makes an objective and he's going for it. Yeah. You know, I think, I think it's, listen, it's, it must be a great feeling to say, hey, you know what, I'm leaving on my terms. I've reached. I've gotten everything.

I thought I could get out of my career and much. more. So let's go. That's it. And he was coming off. I mean, you look at 20, 2024 was not a fantastic season for him. And then he goes into 2025, wins a grand tour, wins a tour stage. Yeah. That's pretty good as good as it's going to get. Yeah. So if you think about it, it's, you know, because I saw some criticism on, on social media about somebody say, you know, Simon Yeats had that, you know, he didn't have a great year. You know, listen, if you would ask 90% of the teams, you know, and you say, okay, your leader is going to win a a grand tour and a stage in the tour of France. Everybody signs today for this. Yeah.

You know, a grand tour, you're going to either win the Vuelta or the Gero and a stage in the tour. Man, that's like, okay, where do I sign? If Giulio Chocone won the Gero and a tour stage, that would be the best possible season. And that's a really good. writer. I'm going to go further than that, Spencer. If a guy that they got on the team and they invested a lot of money in to be the leader of the team in this case, for example, Juan Ayuso. Juan Yuso goes to little track. They pay 10 million euros for him plus whatever, three million salary. If today, he gets presented, okay, Juan, you're going to win the Giro or the Vuelta and a stage in the tour? Okay, he says, I'm going to say, okay, I'll do it. Where do I, where do I sign?

Yeah, that's what Simon Yates did, kind of under the radar. Yeah, that's cool. Exactly. So Simon's, I got to say a personal level. I don't like this one bit because I remember when Simon Yates turned pro. So I don't like seeing people that I remember turning pro retiring. This is upsetting to me. Simon, I need you to keep writing.

I want someone like Robert Hesink who I'm like, wow, I remember you were a team leader when I was a kid and you're still writing. But so Simon Yates leaves. This leaves vis mom. in a little bit of a tough spot because Vizma, if you have not noticed, has not been playing the game of, you just mentioned it, the big buyouts.

So you have one of you so going to Lidl Track. You have Remco going to Red Bull, Derek G. West, going to Lidl Trek for a lot of money. These are big buyouts. Vizma's not been playing this game. Like their last, you look at their last few off seasons.

The biggest riders they brought in are Udo Brooks from Bora, Mateo Jorgensen from Movisar, Victor Campanard's from Lotto and that that's that's not a in Simon Yates and Simon Yates from Jacob Simon Yates in and he's out Matthew Brennan they bring up from their development team that ended up being huge but was not a big signing at the time so the cupboard is a bit bare especially when we think about Wattvinard's crash and the broken ankle and what you know he's got surgery on his ankle what what's the timeline on that recovery they say three months do we really

that doesn't seem easy to me. If you're a cyclist and you have surgery on your lower body and you can't really work on that lower body, that's never great, especially when you're in your 30s. Three months is definitely, I think, real,

realistic. It's not a serious fracture. Yeah. Bob Bernard is going to be. The thing is, of course, it's a huge setback for him for the classics. You know,

if he can get to the topics, if he can get to it, you know, his call preparation is interrupted. I mean, I, long time ago, I was, I was 17 years old. So what is it like? 40, 43, 44 years ago, I had a triple ankle fracture as a junior, you know, big freak fracture. And I had big surgery.

And I was racing again, two months later, I was. racing again. 17 year old though is a lot different than a 31 year old. Yeah, I also, Greek fracture technology was not the same as now. I think,

I think, you know, it's obviously isn't, it's not good, you know, it's a huge setback. It's bad luck. World Von Art is doomed.

You know, just when he started to show improvement and got closer to Matjupu, and this crash and it initially looked okay and then, man,

I mean, to see that, and then say, okay, he's fractured his ankle. That's just, I feel for the guy. It's crazy. You're right. He looked fantastic in that race. I thought he was going to win that race because he reeled in Vanderpull.

Who also crashed? Yeah. And then it looked like a little slideout, not a big deal. Slit out in the snow, broke his ankle. Do you remember the name of the cross race? I don't remember it. Zindhoven. Zontoven.

Zontoven. Zendhoven. No, was it Zantototov? No. I don't know. Zonhoven. Zonhoven. Okay.

Zonhoven. Zonhoven. They're either. And then Mo. Moll. They're always, I feel like they're always in Moll for a cross race. What did you,

Johnhoven, though? I don't remember now. It might not be. It was not in Zonhoven because, but anyways, I don't remember. It was one of those,

you know, big races. It was Snowman. Oh, it was Ziverman, Zovermin, cross. Zevermin cross. That's the name of the cross.

Where was it? That's not a town? I thought that was a town name. No, the cross is the cross of the of the silver lake. Oh, is in Moor. More. Okay, silver lake.

The cross of the silver lake. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, tragic because he looked, he looked, the best he's looked in a long time on a cross bike and then is out. Yeah, I mean, listen, this. You can see different things in it. You know, like, okay, it's again a setback.

It's again an accident, an injury, which this. disrupts his spring. And at the same time, I'm going to see the silver lining is, this is again a guarantee that we're going to see a top ball, Von Ark, into the two of the fronds. Yeah. I mean, that would be the positive spin on this. You would say, he actually, what's tragic and interesting about Van Art is obviously 2021, 2022, fantastic, unstoppable, very good.

23 he was very good I believe he did he have a child that year and leave the tour de France early that'd be yeah yeah yeah I think so and then he was great though at the tour leaves 24 crashes at dwarves dwarves d'war vlander I think it was a midweek classic race Mateo Jorgensen goes on to win he crashes

so he's recovering in 2024 pulling himself back into form at the vault of Spain it looks better than I've ever seen him he's going to win the KOM jersey and sprint In the same grand tour, crashes, hurts his knee. So 2025, he's recovering from this knee injury. Not, you know, off, little off his best, the classics, but still pretty dang good. You're getting fourth at Flanders, fourth at Roubae, fourth at Amstow gold, second at dwars. What a, what a comeback.

Right. Goes to the Giro, wins an iconic stage against East Otho. Goes to the tour, wins an iconic stage against Tadei Pagat chart. And then he's heard again. And then 2026 is another, it's his third comeback season in a row. The mental toughness of a rider like that is incredible. You know, I mean, every time you have to bounce back and bounce back and he's going to bounce back again, I have no doubt about that.

It's just, you know, I mean, it's sad. It's sad to see, you know, he's super popular. I mean, in Belgium, the guy's unbelievably popular. And everybody feels with, you know, for Walt Bernard. And, yeah, I mean, it's too bad, man, too bad. It's pure bad luck because, you know, listen, a crash like that, it can happen to anybody, right? It's just super, super unfortunate the way he, you know, we fell over and you could see that his ankle was completely bent when he, when he hit the ground. And multiple people crashed at the same spot.

You're right. It's just terrible luck. And without the crash, let's say the crash doesn't happen. And you had to say, is Venar going to win a monument, a spring monument or not this year? You'd say, I don't know, he's got a chance. Maybe now, I mean, the competition level is so high. I think also, you know, on the up, I mean, without that crash, I mean, there were chances that, I mean, still not, we still don't know, right? But it looked like he was equal with, with Matthew van der Poul.

And, you know, if you look back at the last two, three years, it's been a while since, well, it has been. been equal with what with with with matio van der poul so this has been a point of inflection in the curve you know like okay van der pool gets you know always the upper hand this could be it could have been like you know what we all want right to see this extreme tight rival rivalry and it started to look like it was you know the curve was changing a bit but yeah now now we won't know what does this mean for his cross career is he ever racing cross again or does this not affect it i i i think I think yes. I think yes.

I think, you know, if you look at both Walt von Hart and Mathieu van der Poul, the fact that they're doing this, these cyclocrosses, obviously they're limiting it more and more. Mathieu may be a little bit less because his goal is to win for the eight-time, the world championships.

And then rumors are that he probably won't do cross anymore. But I'm sure that both of these guys, they cross because they love it. You know, they love the exercise, they love this sport, They love the atmosphere. They do it for their fans. You know, they they don't need to do it for the money,

although they get paid, you know, really good money to start, but it's nothing compared to what they make overall during the season with their contracts and their other endorsements. So they do it for the love of the sport. They just love cyclocross, both of them. That's how they started. They started as being pure cyclocross riders who then transformed into great road cyclists.

So, but yeah, I mean, I can see, I could see Walton Ard say, hey, you know what, this is it. You know, I'm not going to, I'm going to limit the risks now. Then again, you know, if you look at crashes and cyclocross, they're usually without any. I know. It's not a huge incident of major injuries. Well, they crash quite a bit, but usually it's, you know, it's at lower speed. it's not on concrete. You know, you can hurt yourself a lot more

in a crash on the road. Like usually that's where you get hurt. Not in crosses. Yeah. It crashes in cyclecross. What's our friend's name? He's Eastern European and he ride. He has all the cameras on his bike.

We saw him at the base of. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was watching a video of his last night from the, he was behind the UA team at training camp. The guy who stopped and pumped up my tire. Yeah, yeah. He gave us a pump. you're in big trouble.

But he did this video behind the UA team and you're thinking, this isn't, this isn't even looked that safe. And that's a training camp and about it controlled his environment as you can get. So you could get hurt, I guess, anywhere. So maybe this doesn't affect. The big thing is all everywhere around every corner.

You know, I mean, if you go out with a team nowadays on the road and you have 10 to 15 riders and you're moving within, you're moving within traffic. You depend on the behavior. the reactions of, you know, drivers and other users of the road. So it's, it's, the risk is there constantly.

So let's take a, let's take a quick break here from, to hear from some partners. And then I'm going to ask you, how does Vizma, what do they go from here? Everybody, this episode is brought to by Quince, a new year, colder days. This is the moment your winter wardrobe really has to deliver, especially if you live in Western Europe or a large part of the U.S. It is freezing right now. So if you're craving a winter reset, start with pieces truly made to last season after season. Quince brings together premium materials, thoughtful design, enduring quality.

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All right, Johan, so Wavner are out for a few months. Simon Yates gone forever, at least in a cycling sense from Visma. What is Vizma's strategy for the rest of this year? It seems like, I heard a rumor like, oh, Simon Yates is leaving because Jonas is targeting the zero. It's like, I don't think that is the reason. But, and that's been, we've known that for months. I don't think Simon Nade just learned about that. So, Jonas is probably doing the Gero, doing the tour.

So that's two grand tours with leaders. The Velt, what do they do for the Vuelta now? What's the grand tour strategy here? Well, I mean, you know, as we said already many times, no, and nobody, hardly ever nobody plans for the Vwelta. The Vuelta comes to you, you know, and you, you approach it with, whatever you have left, both as a rider and as a team, you know, in terms of, okay, what do I have left? Energy-wise, motivation-wise, how many riders do I have who are fresh?

And then, you know, some of the leaders, people have been injured. They had to sit out at the grand tour or some people have failed their objective and then they want to have another chance at the Vuelta. That's usually how the Vuelta gets penciled in to the program of teams. So it won't be any different. And especially now with FISMA, first of all, if they lose certain manpower due to transfers and then they lose manpower and power due to these,

you know, Simon Yates retiring while being injured, they'll have to pick their objectives carefully. At this point, they cannot think about the wealth at all. They need to think, okay, what can we do? first of all, how are we going to approach the classics if Walt is not 100%. What else do we have left? Benot and von Barle are gone. Right?

So it's like they do have, this could be the answer to every problem. Matthew Brennan. That's your brother. Oh man, he's so good. Yeah. It's not ideal. But, you know, sometimes, sometimes, you know, when you are in a situation like that and then you just, you know, take it as it comes.

Sometimes teams overachief, you know, when the expectations are not extremely high, sometimes they obtain things that they were not expecting. This could be a situation like that, Vervisma, who knows? You know, I mean, they're not, in theory. They're not going anywhere. Maybe just to the Giro. If Vignagard goes to the Gero, of course, they go as the favorite. All the other races, they're not going to go as favorites.

So they can, you know, sit back and see what happens. look out for opportunities and in many occasions you you can obtain great success like that. And you know who this affects the most? So they're at least currently missing their best classics writer, missing a grand tour winner. Mateo Jorgensen checks both of those boxes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Big season for Mateo. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, people will step up. People will step up to the plate, you know. And for, for Jorgensen, this is obviously a great opportunity to be. you know, their strong leader in the classics and also, you know, co-leader, or because of me, Vimba, Vizma will go at least with Jonas to the tour as the leader,

but co-leader in the Tour de France. So great opportunity for Matteo. They also have the, they have the 2023 Walta-Spagna champion on the roster, Sepkus. Yeah. So it's not like they don't have, they don't have nothing, but they've definitely sat out of what we believe is inflated valuation game for the last few years. Kind of an interesting transfer season for them. They have a rider from Pulte Visit Malta and VF group coming in. So they've definitely seen something there.

And then this one really stuck out. Biganzoli and Piganzoli and Lippo Fiorrelli. Fiorrelli. Yeah, yeah. Two good riders. Two good riders. Yeah, who can, you know, obviously, I think both of them are going to do the Gero, I think, right? So, hey, two strong recruits for Jonas.

And here's, they got Louis Barret. They got no problems because they got Barre. But a really interesting one to me, no one's going to notice this happened. Anton Schiffer, 26-year-old from basically an amateur team, bike aid, comes in. You're thinking, well, okay, Anton Schiffer, what are you talking about? Why is that important? Well, he gets third at the German national championships. These are the teams he finishes amongst.

Winner, York Zimmerman, Intermarche, second, J. Coalula rider, third, Schiffer on basically an amateur team. Fourth, Little Trek, fifth, two-door, sixth, Cofidius, seventh UAE, Intermarshey, Red Bull, Red Bull. That's the top 10. That's a very good company to be in. And Anton Schiffer has a 6.5 watts per kilo threshold power. It's not that normal, right? It's a number. It's a number.

We'll see how it translates into races. I've seen many with great lap tests. As for test results and it's to be seen. You know, it's to be seen. But hey, it's a gamble that Visma made. They can't lose with something like that, right? Exactly. It's what we talked about last week.

Like, why are teams letting these riders sit out there and they're. They can't use. It works out great if it doesn't work out. Hey, no big deal. Yeah, I mean, they're very smart. They're smart. They're not a stupid team. No, no.

There's obviously something they know and they've seen to sign this writer. That's, you know, it's not just because of, you know, he has a certain connection there and he's been pushed towards the team. They've seen something that they believe it. Yes. And it's kind of a no-brainer. If someone's sitting out there, and it's not like he's a random guy. He's getting a third at German National Rotter's championship.

So we know he can ride a bike. And if he has that FTP, you might as well try on him. I mean, no one would have said, you know what's a slam dunk? Jonas Vindergarde. That guy's going to win the tour. And they saw something. They signed him and he wins the tour. So I kind of like their trans.

I kind of like it. And I think they'll probably be okay. but it's it's not it's not it's the total opposite of Lidl Trek or Red Bull. I'm interested to see how it plays out. Speaking of Lidl Trek, Derek G. West, you said this, what I was sitting in my hotel room in Brussels, it must have been mid-December. You said Derek G's going to Littletrek. Kind of had sense because I saw him at the training camp, seemed like the riding was on the wall.

So a deal has been made with this former team. Israel Premier Tech now in S&Cycling. We assume some mills. million plus euro transfer fee has been paid to settle the ongoing litigation to buy him out of his contract. He's now going to Little Trek, probably making, let's just say, between 1.5 million euros and two million a years, two million euros a year. That's, that's, that's really my estimate also. Big raise from the five to six hundred thousand euros a year he was making last year. He's a, he's a good rider, a very good rider, very talented writer, big engine. I like him, but what it,

what do you think of this move? It is substantial. This isn't this is the opposite of what we just talked about with Visma. You know, this is a big investment with stakes. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, listen, it adds to the depth of the of little track, right? I mean, it's another quality rider. They add to the roster. They want to be performing in, in all grand tours. I think logically there, G will go to the Gero, in my opinion. The question is, you know, can he repeat his fourth place. Obviously the objective would be to do better. Question is, is he able to do that? You know, I would think that at least mentally he didn't have the best off-season and the

best approach towards the season, but now finally it's a big relief. So there's still time ahead to prepare. I don't know what I have to think, Spencer. I mean, you know him better than I do. I mean, he's a great rider. he's also a rider who if I'm not mistaken came relatively late to road cycling because if I'm not mistaken he was he I do I do remember seeing there if it I think it was Derek G to see him at World Cup track he's a track rider yeah so you know it's quite the switch and and you know you never

know where the limit of those guys is right you know he he was top 10 in the two year right two years ago I think two years ago he was nine yeah nine to the tour Bofinei learned it that yep yeah and then he was fourth at the Gero yep so you know I don't know if I said this is here on the podcast or somewhere else you know it is a it's a difficult complicated situation to have a writer like him because this is a candidate to be on the podium of a grand tour, maybe not the Tour de France, but at least the Giro or the Vuelta.

But, and for that reason, you have to kind of build and dedicate a big part of the team to that goal. But then at the same time, you know, if you would look at it realistically, he could be on the podium, but most likely he won't be. He could be fourth, fifth,

six, seven, eight, you know. And that's, that is, I think it's a complicated situation for a team because you need to dedicate resources to that rider. He's going to, if he finishes fourth or fifth, that's not the goal because nobody remembers who was for the fifth. It's only the podium. That counts. And then at the same time, you know, there are riders and opportunities for riders who you

need to dedicate to that rider that are lost for stage widths. So I also know, you know, it's not easy. I mean, there's not that many teams who have a guy who will be on the podium of a grand tour. You know, if you look at the whole professional Peloton, there's maximum going to be nine riders on the podiums. And most likely some guys will repeat and be on podium. So it's probably seven people a year. Six or seven riders. So is Derek G one of those?

I'd say no. I probably name six names or seven names that are higher ranked on my list. And don't get me wrong, I think Derek G can do it, but he hasn't done it yet. And for now, the fourth in the Giro is his best performance.

But still, I mean, it's to be seen. You know, listen, I think it's a rider who can improve tremendously, especially with now with the optimized environment of little track around him compared to, you know, the professional environment, but I think it's fair to say that the team Israel Premier Tech, now NSN, is not, is not,

does not, doesn't have the same level of professional sophistication than then Little Freck and other top teams. So I think in that aspect, I think Derek G can improve. We'll see. We'll see. I just think that it's, it's a move that makes sense, in the sense that little track is step by step, you know, strengthening their big, I mean, the big range of talent that they have and they acquire.

Yeah. I mean, I think everyone should do what makes them happy. And if he was not happy, the old team he should have left. But the odd thing about it is, do you know what team he would fit in perfectly at? NSN. Like, who would be pumped to finish fourth of the zero? that team, that's the strangest part of this to me, but maybe it just didn't work out behind the scenes.

Yeah. The positive case would be that, Do you know who this reminds? Actually, kind of reminds me a little bit of a guy called Garrett Thomas. You know, tracky comes over. You're like,

yeah, I don't know. Like, is he really a GC rider? And they just, same thing with Bradley Wiggins. They just get on this curve. And the sky's the limit

and that both those guys won the Tour de France. You know, Ryder Hes at all would not have jumped off. If you go back to 2008, 2009, is that guy a grand tour winner? You'd say, I don't think so. And he goes on to win the Jurettalia. So those would be the cases that you'd look at for why you would make this move. But having said that, I think he would fit perfectly at NSN cycling.

That's the one thing I'd not understand about this. I agree, but hey, you know what? I mean, the infrastructure of the team he's at now and the resources they have is just much better. I think he said personally, you know, that this is like, as close as he can imagine to the gold standard of the infrastructure of a team. So listen, the biggest advantage and the biggest reason for his move is, you know, he's now at it, he's already super happy now. And you need a happy rider to perform. Yeah, that's a good point. You know. And you look at a guy like Tom Schweens and, you know,

I'm going, thinking back 10 years ago, I never would have imagined Tom Schweens is where he is now. Yeah. You know, he's clearly at that team maximizing his potential. Absolutely. He has hit the ceiling of what he can achieve, and the team probably played a role in that. So you look at that, you think maybe I should go to that team.

Another team that we've been discussing, is this team going to be around? What's the future of this team? Sudol, quick step. They lose Remcoe. They're doubling down on the classes again, trying to find their old identity. But their title sponsor, Sudol,

has committed to the team until 2030. So they probably are not going away anytime soon. Yeah, no, listen, that's great news. I did not expect that either. I read it. Was it this morning or yesterday? I saw it yesterday. Yeah.

So, Soudal has officially announced that they renew with Soudaulah QuickStep until 2030. And it's great news. No, it's so it's another five years, right? 26, 27, 28, 29. So it's the next five years, they're going to be title sponsor. That's amazing. You know, it gives that team, you know, a project for the few. future and they can keep recruiting.

And, you know, to now after Renco left, there's obviously a lot of room for, for change. It's still a top team. I think they were the fourth best team in the rankings, right? This La Paz season. Yeah, they're very good at getting points. I mean, have Tim earlier. That helps.

And I was talking to someone just a few months ago about potentially buying their world tight or their world tour license. So this is, this puts that to. bed like they're not folding well i mean it's the problem maybe still it means you can have a sponsor and still you know try to sell the license it's still possible because if you follow the license and you have yeah no two more years so obviously if they would sell it would be next year though that's in that you sell two years of world two license but five years of sponsorship you can still do that i mean as if you're the owner now of the team if it i think it's bakala no

it's just then nekbala bakala who's now the main owner. Yeah. I mean, he's always been the main owner, but, yeah. I mean, I was happy to see that. I mean, that's great news. That's great news. And so I think that's it for news.

Few questions. We'll try to make these brief. One question, Spencer, because I'm not. One question. I mean, short on time. One question. Johan, so here's a question for you, from me. I was, I created a, I put everybody's G-S.

results over the last four years into a spreadsheet and then wrote a formula to come up with the best grand tour writers. Surprise, surprise, today, Pagacra is the best. You can read, this is all my news that are beyond the pelton. If you want to dive into it. The thing I was shocked by is how few French, and there was qualifying criteria. Like, you had to finish, you had to win a grand tour in the last four years, finishing the top five of the tour the last three years or be on the podium the last two years. I was shocked by how. how few French riders even qualified for this. And if you had to say off the top of your head,

who is the best current French G.C. rider? Who would you say? The best current French G.C. rider. Current. Current. Current. Oh. I mean, it's not David Goudou, is it?

He didn't even, yeah, he didn't even qualify. I mean, after that, well, he might, he's in the, been for a while. The best, no, I mean, Vocalins has been, what was he, seven or eight in the tour?

He was seventh at the tour this year. Yeah. And has done well in other stage races. He's the only one who has performed, I think, in the last few years. I mean, it's been a while since Tipo Pino has retired now.

Tipo Pino? No, I mean, yeah, no, because he wasn't, it's, been a while since he was in the last four years the last four years you said no well it took into account their results in the last four years but they have to be actively racing in 2026 to qualify um

it must be vocal yeah and he was the only one that wow even hit the criteria that's not that's not that's not good for their for the for the for the future of french i mean you know we all they all have high hopes for paul sex us um i think that's obviously the big talent the big hope but we can't say because he hasn't done a grand tour yet. Well, yeah, because if someone on the street ran up to you and said, hey, Yohan, who's the best French G.C? Who's the best grand tour rider from France? You'd probably say Paul Seychas,

well, he has a little hitch. He's never raced a grand tour. I mean, the potential is there obviously there, but we need to see. We don't know right now what, I mean, what the progression margin is still, of course, has he reached close to his limit? I mean, it's already pretty good.

I mean, even if this remains his level, he's going to be an amazing rider, right? Yeah. It takes a lot more to win a grand tour or to be on the podium of a ground tour. But if there's one rider who has it in him, it's him. And there has been a good, it used to be a little fuzzier of the data. But usually the people that do really well at the Tour de Laveneer now do well in Grand Tours. So you can kind of extrapolate, but it is possible. some people just aren't good grand tour riders.

Like they're great in a one-week stage race and they're not great in a grand tour. I mean, Texas won 2005, 2004. Who won 2020? Del Toro. That's pretty good. Wait, he won two thousand twenty-three. Okay. It was a Pablo.

No, no, no. No, it was Joe Blackmore. Joe Blackmore. Very good writer. Yeah. But haven't performed in Grand Tours yet. And then... Guido Brooks.

Oh, no. I mean, he's been top 10 in the Vuelta. Yeah. Yeah. You know? But anyway. Who won it in 2021? This guy's pretty good, G.C. Rider.

2021. Tell me. Tobias, Holland, Johansson. Okay. So, but it's not a slam-d-d-old. superstar. Here's a question for you. Here's a question for you. Do you know who won the Tour of 11 year in 1990? It's got to be you, right? I did. Johan Vernil. Yeah. This is actually Craig. I'm looking at the results right now. Lauren Ghalibar, third place. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeez. Beyond Reese. 11 was there. Yep. Yep. Yep. Wow. Oh, geez. Spencer, you do not know who you're talking to. This is true. Some good riders in here. And then, but it would have been problematic if you won this Tour de Lavigneur, Johan, and then people were saying he is the best Belgian grand tour rider currently. I was saying, at that, no, at that point, I'm going to, I have to say, you know,

At that point, so I was my first tier on Lotto, I was already a pro. The formula was different then. It was open, an open race. And it was not even called Tour de laveni. It was called Tour de la Community European. It was a different format.

But in 1990, I was considered the next big hope for Belgian grand tours. I had done the tour already. I think I finished 16 or 17 in my first tour. And, you know, I couldn't. I mean, finally, you know, my, Best result was third in the Vuelta many years later, but I could not fulfill the expectations that were, you know, back then on my shoulders. Well, third in the Velt is pretty good. It is super specialized, though, just being good at a grand tour.

It's not, it's hard to, I would say it's hard to extrapolate that from Joe Blackmore, a good example. We don't know. Maybe he's going to be a great grand tour writer, but it's not, it's not a one for one. I mean, I was shocked. I just wanted to bring that up because I couldn't believe, I couldn't believe like the lack of depth there. And then oddly, you'd say, I mean, obviously Slovenia scores really well because of Pagachar and Roglidge. But, you know, everyone else is kind of, you have a smattering of Spanish riders. You have some Italian writers.

And one of the strongest countries, oddly is the UK, which you would not guess. Clearly, Simon Yates leaving takes away one of the writers that was on there. But the UK stronger than you think. Yeah. All right, Johan, we'll let you get back to your Marrakesh goings-ons. But thank you for joining us. And we'll be back next week. Thanks like to speak next Friday.

Yes. Yeah. Talk to you soon. Bye. Okay.