THEMOVE - Who Will Win the Pogačar/Evenepoel/Vingegaard Clash at Euros? | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

Spencer Martin and Johan Bruyneel discuss the recent racing and transfer action, and get into the upcoming rematch between Tadej Pogačar, Remco Evenepoel, and Jonas Vingegaard in the European Championships on Sunday before taking a few interesting questions from listeners from the live Members' chat. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Quince: Layer up this fall with pieces that feel as good as they look. Go to https://quince.com/themove for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Gusto: Try Gusto today at https://gusto.com/THEMOVE, and get three months free when you run your first payroll.

The Montreal win was just for fun, if you think about it. Like, Pagachar was up there by himself, and then McNulty bridged up to him. Pagachar waited for him and then pulled him to the win. Like, those guys are just having fun at this point. It's not, that wasn't even a necessary racing decision. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, Pogacar obviously wanted to use that as his test for the, for the worlds. And then when you saw that McNulty was, who was it with him?

There was... I don't remember who was with... It was Quinn Simmons with him, yeah. Yeah. When McNulty got rid of Quinn Simmons, you know, he decided to, you know, wait for him and the two of them right to the finish. That was a really nice gesture of Tadei Pogacha, right?

I mean, I think that's one of those things that prove that he's the real leader of the team and why everybody is so willing to work for him. Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus, our weekly technically offseason show. We're starting a little bit earlier this year, even though we still have the season running. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bernille. We are going to be talking recent racing, some upcoming racing, including Sunday's European Championship Road Race, which features kind of an odd but exciting

showdown between Taday Pagacha, Rimco Evanapult, Jonas Vindigard, a couple recent transfers, and at the end, we'll get to a few listener questions. We are live on, on a private YouTube stream. So if you remember, you can watch us live and you can ask questions into the chat and we will answer them at the end of the show. It's something we're trialing. We'll probably try to do it more and more, hopefully going on at the Twitter friends next year. So welcome to that experimentation.

Johan, not a lot of major racing to talk about, but we've had the crow race going on, which has been dominated, at least in the stage wins by Paul Monnier and G.C. Y's Brandon McNulty. I'm at a point where if Paul Monnier, like Paul Monnier, how many wins this does this guy have this year? Like 12 wins? No, yeah, I think, yeah, but probably 12. I actually went over it yesterday with my, with my son. I don't, yeah, I think 12, but he's, he won a race. He won a race very early in the season. I think the first race he did in Bessage. And then it, I don't know if he has been sick or injured, but it took him quite a while to, win his second race and then he just

I think it was probably in June and he just kept winning and winning and winning so I mean I have to say he's impressive though he's 21 years old he is he has so much power and yeah

makes me think a bit about I would say maybe maybe Tom Bonnen that kind of rider you know big praise he's well yeah I mean he's strong I mean, Bonen was also when he was 20 or 21, he was already very strong.

But I think to be like Tom Bonen, that's a big ask, right? I mean, Flanders, Ruben, world champion. Probably one of the one of, if not the best cobbled rider of all time. But no, listen, the guy is really, really fast. And yeah, I mean, he won three stages here. Did he not win four stages? What race was it? Two of Slovakia.

Yeah, you won the first four stages of Slovakia. Only lost one of the stages. Yeah. So, no, yeah, I mean, very, very impressive rider. And then, and of course, you know, in these kind of races like Slovakia and like Croatia, they do have a pretty solid team around him, which ensures basically whenever it's a stage that's appropriate for a bunch print, it is actually a bunch. lunchprint and he rarely misses it.

But today was different. Today was, I think, the hardest stage of the tour of Croatia and Brandon McNulty was head and shoulders above everybody else. There was a hard climb at the end. He does have a strong team. But also with Tim Wallens doing the leadout on that climb and he attacked and it was game over. Brandon McNulty won the stage with one minute.

40, I think, on the second rider. What a season for McNulty. He won the tour of Poland, was topped in in the Giro, just recently won the race in Canada with the blessing of Tade Pogacchar, but you had to be there. So yeah, I mean, finally he gets to a point where let's not forget Brandon McNulty was the best junior in the world when he was junior. I think for two years in a row. He was the best junior in the world.

There was nobody even close to him. And, you know, finally he gets to a point where he has the results that everybody was expecting from him. Well, you say that last year, 2024, he was ninth overall in wins. Like, he actually won a lot last year. We didn't really notice it. Won this race. Won the crow race. He's defending champion.

I have to imagine he wins again. Going to be hard to overcome a minute and a half deficit with two stages. left. Yeah. I believe one of them of sprint stage. Very good rider. I still, I was on on a group ride yesterday, Boulder Cycle Sport group ride Thursdays got to be out there. There was a lot of heavy hitters. But I was talking with someone on that ride and like the Montreal win was just for fun if you think about it. Like Pagacchar was up there by himself and then McNulty bridged up to him. Pagachar waited for him and then pulled him to the wind. Like those guys are just having fun at this point. It's not like that wasn't even a necessary racing decision. Yeah. Well, I mean,

yeah, Pogacar obviously wanted to use that as his test for the for the worlds. And then when you saw that McNulty was, who was it with him? There was, I don't remember. Quinn Simmons. It was Quinn Simmons with him. Yeah. Yeah. When when McNulty got rid of Quinn Simmons, you know, he decided to, you know, wait for him and and write the two of them right to the finish. That was a really nice gesture of, of that I Pogacar. Right. I mean, I think that's one of those things that prove that he's the real leader of the team and why everybody is so willing to work for him. Yes.

I think stuff like that goes a long way with the general public. That resonates with people a lot. In the moment, I kind of roll my eyes at it. I'm like, all right, whatever. Like, he's a gun teammate. I'm just probably watching too much cycling. But for casual viewers, it's so impressive. You know, it's all people talk about.

On Palmanier, so I have up the list of winners. Like, this is the winner ranking list for this season. Tadipagachar first, 17 wins. Down season for them, if you can believe it. Quite a few fewer wins than last year. Tim Riller's second, 15 wins. Mads Pedersen, 14. Isaac El Toro, 13, 5th place, Palm Anya, 13 wins.

Wow. That is really impressive for 21-year-old. And then you look even further down, Matthew Brennan. He's also... He's 20 years old. He has 12 wins. 12 wins also. Wow.

Yeah. He just turned 20, no? He was 19 for a long time this season. Yeah. Well, what was it? It was his Perry Rube debut, and he was at the front for the first few hours. Yeah. But moving on from Crow Race, we had the main event of the day, the Monsterland Tour.

This for some reason was, I believe it was televised start to finish. Oh, yeah. I woke up. When I saw that, I said, wow, why do they do this? It's one, I love the region. I personally enjoyed seeing it, but I woke up. I turned it on. I thought, why am I watching the beginning of this race?

Yeah, Spencer, well, imagine somebody who has to commentate that race from start to finish. I was thinking about that. I got an offer to comment. I won't say the race to commentate a race. And I was, it's something you think you can do until you're put in the position to to it. And then you think, what am I going to say four hours on end? But you ask for Philipson wins over Arna Dele, really impressive win. I was watching it. And I thought for sure Dele had it. And then Philipson comes around. It's a kind of reminder, it's silly to say,

because he's probably the best sprinter in the world, at least in Grand Tours. But he can correct course when things aren't going perfectly. And it come around a rider like Dele is not easy. So I was impressed. Yeah, and there was, you know, I mean, there was a lot of really good sprinters, you know, so Jordi Meos was there. Was Jonathan Milan there? I thought he, I thought I saw him on the start line. Yeah. Merlir was there, but he crashed. So that, that, that's obviously something that would have, would have been, been different. But, but, I mean, without, without the crash of Merlir still Philipson with his team you know the way they they they control this race he won last year also Philipson so he was a defending champion coming off the form of

the Vuelta and you know I think it's you know he's the I think he's the fastest sprinter right now if you if you look at pure sprinters maybe a close one with Merlier but the Lee I mean Let's talk a little bit about the sprint of the Lee and his end of season. You know, he's, he's winning a lot of races. He, um, he won a race in France, no, a few days ago. And then I think he's up to seven, seven or nine wins already now also with his whole beginning of the season, you know, basically no results. How many, how many wins does he have? So he had three consecutive wins before this race.

Yeah. Um, Two of them in Belgium, one of them in France, one of a stage of a Nui tour. Just this season, he has one, two, three, four, five, six, seven wins, which is very good season. Yeah. I should, I know Jonathan Milan on the start line, but Little Check only started seven riders. So maybe he was supposed to start and then dropped out. And also, some teams only have six riders.

Like, Visma started six riders. Some teams have eight riders. So I'm not quite sure what's going on there. I think the Lee, it's difficult to say. I mean, have you seen, have you watched, have you looked closely to the sprint? Did you see that he always has some kind of issue? I don't know what it has to do with his power on the bike. I don't know what it is, but did you see that his back wheel skipped with like 50 meters to go?

I think he hit a, he went over a bump or went into a little hole in the, in the road. And so it was a close one. I don't know if that would have made a difference. But the Lee is obviously, he got his form back. And I've heard on Dutch commentary that he had to change a lot of things that, you know, he went back to his old fashioned way of doing. So, you know, the Lee's family, they're farmers. So he lives on a farm. And his favorite thing to do is being.

out on the farm with the animals with the cows and and so i mean i don't know if it's true or not but apparently he he spends at least 20 hours a week on the farm with the animals that seems like a lot of time i mean if that may if it it seems to work it seems to work uh he's he's having a really really good second part of the season yeah that that i will say if you go to european farms they always seem much more idyllic and nice than a north american farm where if you were out there for 20 hours a week you might have wind burn that would never come off your face but you know it's interesting about delis same number of wins as yasper phillipson both have seven wins i guess it just shows you you know because merleur has more than double the number of wins as phillipson this year

but it just shows you like phillipson can just rise up for the big moments you know like not be having a great season and then just I'll just rattle off a tour to a friend stage win with also crashed out of the tour which was his main thing and then I'll show up to the vault and I'll win a couple stages. It's really impressive the way he can just rise to the occasion. You were saying Merlier might be up there with him. I would say Merleer's second and third week of grand tours are not on par with Philipson. That's probably the difference between them right now. Anything else from this race that stuck out to you other than you got to see a lot of it. No, no, no, no, that's it. That's it. You know, it's, I mean, we all knew it was going to be a sprint. And I think, you know, the favorite one. So Phillips and De Lee. And then Pavel Bittner was third, I think. He's on picnic. He's on picnic. Picnic post and L, I think, no?

Yes. Who was in relegation danger at one point. And then now has kind of quietly shut the door on any challenge. So impressive. Yeah. I mean, speaking of that, the relegation is, uh, is Cofides. Yeah. They're there, they're now, I think 200 something points behind, you know, X. Um, I mean, because of the bad situation, I think they're in. They just fired their, uh, their current general manager, Cedric Vassar. And they brought in a new rider, a new GM, um, who was the responsible for the look brand. the bicycles and the pedals.

I don't know if they can turn it around, but it doesn't look good for COVID-DIS because if you study a bit more in detail the classification of the team, so if you take the ranking of the last three years, which is what decides who's in the world tour and not, for the moment they're out. And, you know, X gets the 18th spot. And then if you go to the ranking of this year, I don't think they are in the first three, at least not in the first two.

Lucky for us, Johan, I spent eight hours on planes going back to the fourth month place recently. So I had plenty of time to tally this all up and think about every possible scenario. But let's assume Uno X is promoted. So that will, or yeah, they'll be promoted. So the teams that would be promoted are Israel Premier Tech, UnoX, and Lotto. So then the wildcard teams for next year, not wildcards. The automatically invited second division teams would be Tudor, Q36.5, and Kofides. So if Kofidis is not promoted or they don't hold their spot, they would be third, but just barely above total energy.

So they have to, like, even if they get relegated, they have to. sprint through the end of the year. Yeah. What's their advance on total energies? It's about 300 points. So it's about the same as the deficit. Because total energy is most likely going to win the Tour of Langkawi. Yeah.

They want, I don't know how many points there are there. But so, so yeah, that's interesting. And that, but it even gets more interesting. Just wait. So let's say Totile is not in the top three. That means there's two wild card slots to the Tour de France. total who is going to lose her sponsorship at the i don't know if you saw that end of the next year six yeah so they will be a wild card team to the tour next year even if they're not in that top three

because the top three second division teams get automatically invited that leaves do you know who then would be the last wildcard team to the tour of france titema teetama rockets Wow. Unbelievable. Yeah. That is mind-blowing. Yeah. And that explains the Dylan Gronevagan signing.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. All kind of comes into, like, focus when you really think about that. I mean, to go from a YouTube team, the team that was basically launched from a YouTube channel. That's really impressive. Anything else on the race? Oh, I can't believe we almost glossed over this. The other major race of the week, European.

time trial championships straight off the plane from Kigali Rimcoe Venipal shows up and just absolutely destroys everyone on what we were thinking was maybe a course that wasn't even that well suited for him what did you think of that performance? Yeah I mean

to beat I mean he did he did beat people Ghana so that's obviously always a challenge on a course like this but you know he's he's in super shape impressive you know i mean if you look so and then the third guy uh this larsson is it nicholas larsson nicholas larsson on a third division team yeah yeah who goes to titima

by real right for titima by the way next year but um yeah i mean the same the same thing happened you know like even a pool catching stephan kum who is a multiple european champion time trial That was obviously the image of the time trial, European championships. But if you look at Evanapult's Palmaris now in the last year, he is the only one who's ever. So he's gold medal in the Olympic time trial, gold medal in the World Championships time trial, gold medal in the European Championships time trial, and gold medal in the Belgian championships, Belgian championships time trial

so yeah he's the best time trial in the world bar none there's no discussion about that anymore now

I mean it wasn't even particularly close he beat Ghana by 43 seconds on a 28 minute course yeah

yeah yeah where is here's a question for you so Evanopold that would mean he has

every championship he possibly could have right in the tantro there's nothing left yeah so let's just

say he's better than Ghana, which I think is fair. Where does Ghana go from here? Like, what does he focus on next year? Time trials? Does he double down on the classics? Like, where do you see Ghana's career evolve? Ghana can still win every single time trial where Evan the pool is not present.

You know, in the Gero. I mean, he can win time trials. But, you know, Evan the pool is just, I mean, and again, Spencer, I saw some pictures, you know, frontal pictures there is just no if even a pool has a decent day i'm not going to doesn't even need to be a super day if he has a decent day and it's a fast course there's no way anybody can beat him he is so arrow yeah that frontal surface is just mind-blowing the way this guy is able to you know put himself in that position um you know and i'm gonna i'm gonna again again get people who criticize my my uh I would say, applauding even a pool.

But, you know, I'm sometimes very critical about Remco also. You know this. But, but, yeah, I think we, we have our fair share of criticism about Remco. But it's just, you know, if you look, he does have the power. He's, he's an amazing athlete. But if you look the way he's able to optimize his position on a time trial bike, nobody else can do this. It's for such a, for like half an hour or one hour.

And by the way, I think I, in one of the former podcasts, I think I said that he was thinking about our record. Yeah, I was just thinking about that. That's not true, not true. He's not, it's not on his mind. Hmm. Well, Ghana is what would be, I'm also, I agree with you. I think you couldn't create physically a better time trialist because of just how arrow and powerfully is. He's a good athlete.

You know, he almost made that he was almost like a Belgian senior international player. which is very hard to do. I'm in soccer and football, the real sport. But so he's clearly a good athlete. But what would be the downside of chasing the hour record? Is it just the preparation, like all the time and money you sink into that? It's a lot. It's a lot on the side.

You know, it's a big project. Plus, let's not forget, he's going to be on Red Bull now. And he has Dan Bingham there, who was the tester for, for who actually broke the world record first before Pippogana and then prepared the whole plan for Pippo Gana when he was still only NEOS. I think the big issue with Remko and the hour record and the disadvantage, he has a huge disadvantage compared to Pippo Gana.

It's on a velodrome. And it's different, it's different riding. You have to be able to ride the track because the technique, riding on a track is something that is super, super important for the hour record. And I think Ghana is a big specialist of the track, and Remko has never ridden the track. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah. He didn't grow up on it late coming to the sport.

I mean, I was even riding with like a world class, former, I guess, world class track writer yesterday. And just the way they can kind of generate power from seated positions and time things that it's I guess it's just a skill you build up over a long period of time that it's a different peddling style Spencer it's a different paddling style and even if it's you know individual in time trial position and low on the track you still have the technique of the corners and you know coming out of the corner faster and it's it's different and so it would take a lot and the bar is extremely high I mean is it is it 57 already or a

56 points. I don't know. Probably 57. What the hour record is. It also, I didn't thought of this. Bradley Wiggins pointed it out. The track is not flat. So you're,

it's not like you're just riding around as fast as you can. Like you're using the, you use the little, you know, there's a little dip after the corner. How much is it? Can I get it? It says,

I don't know if this is true. This is what chat GPT says. 56.8. Yeah, that's correct. That's just pretty fast. I mean, for our American listeners, that is going to be like 35 miles an hour for an hour. Just try to go hold that. No drafting or anything.

Really impressive. But so this weekend, we have two big races. One I kind of feel bad for, Gere del Amelia. There's just tomorrow. Spencer, to come back on the European Championships. I just want to, I mean, I have to get this off my chest, you know. European championships, and I think that the, the, the race that illustrates it the most is, you know, the mixed relay. Why does this thing even exist?

You know, it's like mixed relay. So we saw it already on the world championships. Personally, I think, I think the discipline is, it's, it's not. I mean, it means nothing. I mean, nobody wants to participate, you know, the big writers don't want to participate. The European championships mixed relay, there were seven teams at the start, Spencer, seven teams. So, you know, France, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, and then Luxembourg, Ukraine, and Estonia. I mean, where is everybody?

I mean, if you know, and then if you look at that, I mean, and then what did we have? 15 spectators? There was nobody there. This takes me to a bigger question. also we're like in the meat of the cycling season like points are being the points battle is like at full tilt we have races like coming thick and fast and you expect people to target this it makes no sense on a larger question how does this make any financial sense the european championships is it make money from the region paying it like why do they even run this thing well i mean first

of all i think it's it's also one of the you know it's a justification to exist you know you have you have all the national, I mean, you have all the national federations, right? Why does there even have to be a European federation? That's a very good point. Yeah. It's a justification to exist. You know, that's what they, but the UCI rules over the national federation. So what does the European Federation do?

Nothing. It means nothing. Plus, I think in this case here, you know, to have the European championships one week, in this case here, the time trial, three days after the world championships, makes even less sense. It makes no sense. I mean, it's impressive also what Evanapool did.

You know, he did the World Championships time trial. He did the road race on Sunday and on Wednesday, he's already racing in France and wins the time trial. But that's hard, man, on these guys. You need to be in top shape. You cannot get sick. it's asking a lot of your body. I think this year, the European Championships and the European Federation,

they're very fortunate that Bogachar participates and that Jonas Wiengarde participates. That's the first. I think it's his second one-day race, no, or something? or his when is the last yeah he won one day race and so that may be the reason why he participle

because it's in that area it's it's there oh because he lives right there yeah you're right I didn't think about that no but the race he won oh the race he also probably was over there

was over there I think he can also just drive there from his house too probably probably yeah wait hold on a second what race did he win the drum classic

Yeah, Dromar dash or something. So that's, yeah, so it's over those climbs. And so, yeah, I mean, the race, the race on, on Sunday, it's, it's a hard race. The field, I would say, is not, is not that great. I looked quickly. I saw, for example, Great Britain is not even sending a team. I couldn't find them. I was confused about that.

Yeah. You know, if you look at the start list, you have, but the thing is also, Spencer, that, you know, this is one of those races like, okay, Slovenia sends a full team. They have Pogacar. They have Mohorich. But there's guys on here.

There's guys on almost every single country that I have never heard of. Thailand, Fingst, from Slovenia, never heard of him. Anzish Kock. never heard of him these poor guys are just getting roasted on the move plus sorry but do do startless matter anymore i guess would be a unnecessarily hot take question because switzerland sense niels brun never heard of that guy valentine valentine darbellet arnold tondo i mean never heard of these guys look at the german team yeah have you heard kind of actually an interesting guy on the German team Anton Schiffer so he's 26 years old

he's on a team called bike aid it's a club level team this guy was in the Zwift academy he went to the Alpison team camp goes to Vizma no he some any Alpison passed on him because they didn't like his personality it's super interesting a little documentary about it and now and then he goes back and he's racing at like basically the local or local pro level and then now he's going to vizma next year which vizma does have a very good track record of picking up think of uh bart lemon just picking up older guys who fit into the system really well yeah johan if everyone's just getting nuked from a hundred k out does it matter who's in the race i mean it's going to be the same with if you have if you have today

and you have jonas and you have remco uh you have almeida made that show. Are you so? Paul Sejas. I mean, those six riders are top of the world, right? Yeah. So it's going to be a good race. But it's hard, man. I mean, I checked the course. It's, you know, it's not, it's 202 kilometers, so shorter. But it's 3,400 meters of elevation, of which the majority is in the last 140 kilometers. And they do three times a climb of seven kilometers, I think. And almost seven percent. And they, Then they do three laps with a climb of a shorter climb, 1.6 kilometers, but 10%. And the last time they go up, that climb is six and a half kilometers from the finish.

So this has, again, Dode, ridden all over it. And Jonas is probably going to try to follow him. I don't know if that's... Tadde has ruined race previews because we could have just played white noise there. You know, it doesn't matter what the course is. I could just tell you that he's probably going to win. Well, yeah, I mean, it's... Yeah, it depends what he has.

has done, right, between the Sunday and Sunday, a trip back home. I mean, he doesn't have to do much, but yeah, it's a one there is. So you depend a lot on the form of the day, right? And I mean, he's got still has business to do. He's got a monument next week that he, that he kind of has to win if he, he's third of all, he's third overall in monument wins. And he needs to start closing down on Merck's the Flamac fast. So he's got work to do.

The thing, but the thing, the sad thing is, this is a zero-sum game. So all those names we said are names that would usually be at Giro Del Amelia. Like the last past winners of that race were Pagachar, Roglich, Inric Mas, Roglich, Flasov, Roglich. And those, I believe all those guys were targeting Lombardia in those years, because it's the week before, Yil, Lombardia. It is in, it's, what town is this? I'm blanking on the town. It's like a fantastic finish. The Tour de France had the climb there.

That's where Pugachar attacked Yonis and Yonis followed them and everyone freaked out. What is this climb called? It is the San Luca climb in Bologna. Yeah. But the sad thing is this race is losing out on all these riders because now the European Championships decided to park itself the day after. So now we're getting a diminished version of what I mean, we are, I mean, Isaac Del Toro is going to win. How do you feel if you're not UAE in the modern Pelagant, too?

It's like, well, the best rider's not there, but they're still going to win the race with this other guy who's amazing. So Isaac Daltoe could be good. That's tomorrow, no, Emilia? So it could be win, what is the win number, the win number 14 of the season? For Del Toro. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good question.

I don't think he has that many. It'll be close. I think it's, I think he has 13 wins. 13 wins. Well, you're right. So that would be his 14th win.

I guess, yeah, I'm like, well, I don't seem at 14 because he hasn't won it yet. He probably will win it. I think you're right. What we saw last week was really impressive.

So are your picks, del Toro tomorrow, Pagata on Sunday? Yeah. yeah sure i i am i do find it curious that yonis is doing sunday it's exciting um i wish you would do more one days in general yeah and then the question is you know will you will yonaz do more races will he do lombardy for example is he not currently on the start he definitely should do it see that's something i don't understand you know i mean like does he does the european

championships. Obviously, he thinks he has a chance to win because of the course. He does have a chance to win. But then at least do, you know, do a few more races to finish the season. Yeah. Yeah. A monument. It's what is probably the second, he probably has two monuments that he could win realistically. It would be liege. Yeah, Léz and Lombardia. You got to start him. You got to start him. Jonas, what are we doing? But, like, I mean, who's to say Pagaccio doesn't? What if he falls?

He, maybe stubs his toe in the hotel room the night before. Yeah, you don't know what's going to happen. You got to show up. Yeah. He probably would still win, even if he broke his toe the night before. I think it would matter. Maybe we should. Let's take a quick break, actually, Johan.

And then we'll get back to some recent transfers if you don't have anything else to say about these races. Yeah. okay we'll be right back everybody this episode is brought to you by quince as the weather cools i'm swapping in pieces to my wardrobe that actually get the job done warm durable and built to last and quince delivers every time with wardrobe staples that carry me through the season quince has all the types of staples that you'd actually want to wear on repeat like a hundred percent mongolian cashmere from just sixty dollars classic fit denim and wool outerwear that looks sharp and holds up i personally got my eye on their italian wool pico it's perfect for those cold bold bolder morning and I want to elevate my fit for those school drop-offs. And by partnering directly with ethical factories and top artisans, Quince cuts out the middle men to deliver premium quality at half the cost of similar brands. I've personally been shopping on Quince.

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So try Gusto today at gusto.com slash the move and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com slash the move. That's G-U-S-T-O dot com slash the move. Try it out right now. So there's been a few transfers and transfer rumors. One is Mikhail Kievkoski going to Q36.5, but we read Daniel Benson thinks he's going back to Enios. So I thought he was going back to Ineos. I thought I heard that earlier this year.

I'd be surprised, frankly, if he leaves. He's got a pretty good situation at Ineos. I don't really know why he would leave except for money. And I don't know who Ineos would pay, if not for him, because he's one of their best riders, even at this advanced age, veteran age. Another writer, Tyne Udebrooks, if this sounds familiar, and he was like the darling, Kian, Kian. Kian. Who, by the way, by the way, Victor Kampenards revealed, not knowing, but he did an interview after the world championships of women that Kiannautabrook's girlfriend is actually the new world champion women, the Canadian magdalene.

Yeah. So I saw an interview on Belgian TV and Kampenards. They asked him a question. And he said, yeah, you know, based on what you saw from the women's race, what you think, you know, what happened in the road race for the men and surprise winner. And Kampana said, yeah, well, not a big surprise for us because, you know, she came training with us because she's the girlfriend of Kiannautabrooks. And she was super strong. And, you know, so that's how it became public that they're a couple. Interesting.

Well, maybe that explains the team change. I don't know how to explain this because I was I was really surprised to read that I don't know if we said very very well kept secret Spencer you know no rumors there was nothing about it and yeah um getaute Brooks signed for four years with Movistar in the middle of his contract while he still had a contract for next year so yeah um it's clear that uh and I saw a quote from Richard Plucker saying that you know they have different objectives and that obviously so vizma agreed to break open his contract and let him go I don't know if that's if there's a fee attached to it or not I would guess a small

fee but but obviously listen Keanuiter Brooks is a big talent he's been dominating the categories he was he was racing in in the youth won the tour de la veneer you know came to red bull um i think he finished 10th on top 10 in his in his first voelta and then uh left unexpectedly also with on a contract still with red bull uh to vizma they had a battle about that so vizma obviously paid uh to get Eutobrooks out of his contract with Red Bull, and now after two years, doesn't finish his three-year contract with Fisma and moves to another team. I didn't really know what I have to think about it, Spencer. You know, at 22 already on your third team and having broken your contract twice, it's not a good sign.

it's i mean you know he's a talent that's for sure something tells me and i have absolutely i don't know the guy personally i just go off what i read and and what i see is that um it's must not be easy to work with him i mean essentially that's what red bull said it was i believe departing team manager rolf aldag after he left he was i don't want to put words in the man's mouth but he kind of expressed like it's going to be nice not to work with him again i believe he said something like that on the record um but he so he gets eighth at the 2023 volta already it was kind of weird because he would if you remember he was mad at vlasoff yeah for getting seventh and if you're a team manager they were on the same team both on bora and i had two riders fighting over seventh and eighth

I would be livid. I'm like, what the hell are we talking about? Like, both of you guys, I don't care. I don't care. Get on the podium, win, or like, let's not fight about seventh and eight. So right then I thought it was, and it's like, why would Vlasov work for you to finish a spot ahead of him when he's trying to get his own contract on the team? But he leaves and goes, he is a terrible 2024. And I thought the whole conversation around him in 2023 was a bit odd.

He was, like, being covered as though he was the next great, like, Belgian tour of France winner. But the thing is, let's know, in his defense, he did have that an issue with one of his legs, with one of the arteries. I don't know if he had surgery or not. But, but obviously. I don't remember either. He had, he had that typical issue with, you know, numbness in one of the legs. And I do remember that he was out for the majority of the season in 2024. And then he came back in Tireno, did one or two good stages, and then he had it again.

I still see the images when he crossed the finish line and he was devastated, you know, saying, okay, this, you know, obviously super disappointed. He had the same issue. Then he was out of competition for a very long time. And I think he came back, end of July, beginning of August, and then won the Tour de la, very impressive. Then there was another stage race. Second, I mean, he's been very good since coming back. Second at Czech Tour. Check Tour, yeah.

And then fifth at Tour of Slovakia, I hand up did not watch the Tour of Slovakia. I can't speak to his performance there. But then World Championships, at a certain point, he was the only Belgian rider in the front chase group. No, there was the moment, the moment Pogacha goes on the Mount Kigali. It was Pogacha, Ayuso. I don't know who else was there. There was another guy. And then, and then, then, uh, then Kiann, because when, when Ramco got dropped.

I think Paul Seychos was the other guy. Was it Paul Seychas? I think so. I could be, I don't remember. Wait, wait, no, no. Who was it? Oh, boy. Oh, it's going to drive me nuts.

I think it was John Christen. Yes, that's who it was. Yeah. And so Ointabrooks looked good. And, and, you know, then he stayed up there for a bit. And then he kind of helped Remko a bit also to, to come back. So he's at a good level.

Obviously, this was in the making already for a while, this transfer, right? Because it's not something that they have decided now after the world championships. Anyway, we'll see. We'll see. Maybe that's what he needs for his career. I don't know. Movistark can definitely use a really good rider for G.C. And so, yeah, I don't know if that's the right choice.

But we will see. We'll see. Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, Movistar needed to sign somebody. He better learn Spanish. I have to say, he better learn Spanish. But I think he, I think he actually, if I'm not mistaken, he lives in, I think he lives in Girona. So it looks to me like he's a smart Spanish.

For sure. Was that? It's a terrible place to learn Spanish. You're in Catalonia. Everyone's been English. Yeah. No. To me, Ida Brooks looks that kind of.

I mean, he's, I think he's pretty good at, he's, he's a smart guy. I think he's going to learn Spanish or he speaks Spanish already. I would say even the bigger, the bigger, I think culture shock would be going from a team that made their own software program to help you eat to, I assume just like no supervision at Movistar. Yeah. get on your local group ride show up ready to race yeah but i think a guy like oitobrooks uh i think he has everything under control himself he's that kind of smart and meticulous and obsessed guy yeah and you could honestly see that maybe not working that well at isma because if they're telling him what to do he thinks he knows what to do maybe that didn't work that well yeah probably um i was just going to

Mitch. Oh, I think we should. I'm going to say something. We're not going to give any commentary on it. I think it's weird if we don't say it. So Israel Premier Tech is not going to be racing tomorrow because they were disinvited to Giro Del Amelia. They also, after being disinvited to that race uninvited, they're pulling out of three other, you know, it's these three almost consecutive, my camera's going crazy, three consecutive Italian one day races leading up to Lombardia next week. I assume they'll be at Lombardia. I don't really know why the situation would be better there versus this, because they were pulled out of Giro Del Amelia. I kind of don't hate the logic. The organizers are just saying it's not safe to have them there. Probably the Volta could have made the same decision. But I don't know why the situation would be better next week.

I assume they can't pull them out because it's a world to erase. Is that right? Yeah, normally Lombardy is not in a position to, to do the same thing, even if they, as far as I understand, Emilia made the decision because they're under pressure from the region who's afraid of protests. Lombardy is not able to do that because Israel Premier Tech have an automatic invitation and actually obligation to participate. Yeah, you're right.

Well, actually, no, they don't have obligation because they are, they are an automatic invite. But if you're a World Tour team, you cannot say, I'm not going. Israel could potentially say they're not going, but the organizer is not in a position to say you can't come. Remember this during COVID? Like some teams had all their riders had COVID, so they left a race and then like RCS tried to sue them for leaving the race. Yeah, on top of that, you get a fine from the UCI for not finding a team. And then on top of that, if that wasn't bad enough, factor and factor came out with a pretty, I would say, damning statement, basically saying, this is just bad business. We can't continue to be involved with you if you don't change your name.

Premier Tech said the same thing. I'd assume they also want them to change their country of registration. I still don't see Sylvan Adams backing down. And I frankly, if they changed the name to Sylvan Adams Cycling Academy, I don't know if that would help that much either. So I, like what happens, Johan? Like, Beniam Girmai is signed there for next year. I don't think.

I don't think it's signed. I don't think it. I don't know. I don't know. Man, if I would be Biniam Girmai or his agent, I would, there's other places where Binyam Girmai can sign. I would think so. Future is more secure because Israel Premier Tech, they'll probably make the best financial offer.

Given the climate we're living in right now, I think that team is not secure. You don't know if the team can participate in certain races and the continuation and the future of the team is not assured in my opinion. I agree. I the factor thing kind of rattled me because that once you have your sponsors saying we don't want to be involved yeah then you you start to run out of options no no no Adams has no chance he has to change the name and he has to he has to change the country of registration that's the only he will have to you know make good on those two things for the team to continue um because even if let's say a factor, if factor decides, okay, you know what, this is too risky for us.

It's damaged young brand. We're not sponsoring anymore. There's no other bike brands who's going to sponsor the team. Yeah, no one's picking that up. Yeah. And in fact, even if you tried to race with other bikes, people might ask you not to do it and like send you a cease and desist. Yeah. Like even if you bought your own bikes. Well, I think that's a bit far, far stretch. But still, I mean, listen, I mean, ultimately, I think Adams is in a position that he could say, you know what? We don't want any sponsors. I'm just going to pay everything myself.

That's a possibility. Yeah. But still, he will still face the same problems they had. And it's unfortunate because, you know, the team has nothing to do with, with the situation of Israel and Palestine. But still, it's not. I know riders who were there and have left and it's you know they're they're pretty happy that their future is secure you know by the way speaking of speaking of have we already do we already know where Derek G is going to write finally next year that's not been confirmed right no and

that's like our brains got a just erased from our brains right that was the big that was like the big controversy for the first few days of the Volta and I don't think I've heard a single thing about it at you. But it's going to be, it's going to be it has to be any else. I mean, there's no way Derek G made and his agent made that decision not not knowing

where he was going to be. It has to be any of us. Yeah. So it's going to be in aos. We don't have to get into this right now. Maybe this is an offseason topic. I was going through NEO's financial statements. That's another team that might not be secure. I guess that's why that's what tow dials for to come on and take some of their financial burdens. They're secure. Spencer Day. They're secure. The

company is losing a lot of money. Like a lot of money. Yeah. And you know rich people, that's the thing about Adams. It's like, yeah, technically he could afford it, but you know, you know, moneyed people. No, once they

get tired of it, it's a little toy. Once they get tired of it, they throw the toy away and they buy another toy. Yeah. And it gets old Real fast. Anything else before we go into story time, question time? I think we've covered most of what we had to talk about, yeah. Okay.

Well, David Brown in the chat, thank you, David, for joining us and asking this. I think this is a pretty good question. He said, last year you said Tade's year was arguably the best ever. Assuming he wins Lombardia is the Tour plus World Championships plus 1-1213 in monuments with less overall wins better the same or not as impressive of season i mean i not finishing below third in a monument is pretty impressive in itself yeah yeah i mean do the france world championships uh so monuments would be what uh so he won liege um what else the he won't liege well are we penciling them in let's pencil them in for lombardia just for the yeah for the second

exercise. Yeah, because here it says 1-1-1. So which other monument has he won? This is embarrassing. It's because he wins so much. We forgot he won Flanders, Johan. Oh, damn. Yeah.

And then he got third at San Remo and second at Peru. And second at Perrube. Yeah. That alone, I don't know how many seasons there's been like that with those finishes in the five minutes. Well, you know, you'd need another grand tour, right? You know, like you need the Gero. Zero tour world championships.

Yeah. So last year already. Yeah. And then I mean, listen, it's up there with the best ever. You know, it's up there with a mark season or. No, listen, it's, it's amazing. I can't say it's the best ever. I don't have the stats.

But I think, I think it's pretty close. Well, and he didn't do Flanders last year. So my personal opinion is I don't think as a society we've digested how impressive Pagotcha are winning Flanders and getting second at Rubei and his first ever attempt behind Matthew Vanderpull is. I would almost say this season might be more impressive, especially, you know, like, we all know the feeling, you show up to the tour, everything's firing, you're winning, it's great. But to show up and everything was not firing on the same levels this year, like they lose

on Mata right away. The course was a little goofy. It was it was tough course and it was really unpredictable. And then to kind of settle into what he settled into in the last week and still win that dominantly and then come back and win world championships again. That's really impressive.

Yeah. Now listen, it's it's amazing. It's an amazing rider. He just, you know, yeah. And I think, I mean, then we forget if we forget about if he's also European champion, for example, you know, add that to the list. Oh, yeah, the way we talk about that title is we never are not talking about the European championship jersey. I think we went through the winners. I don't even think I could tell you who

has it right now. Is it Timmer Lear? It's Timmerleer. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's a young race. It's the first time was in 2016. So there's no history there. But, um, no, I think it's, this year obviously the guy who wins this year is going to be an amazing strong rider you know not i'm not saying that i mean because there are championships that are won by sprinters you know but in this case we had merleir we had jacobson we had diviani we had nitzolo um those were all sprints right and then we had uh la port we had uh saran who was the first winner. We had Mateo Trentin and we had Sonny Cobrelli. I think those are all the winners of all the European championships, if I'm not mistaken. And Alexander Christoph. So it's been very sprinter

heavy. Yeah. And it's fine. You know, I mean, a sprinter is also entitled to win the championships. But usually you want the champion of a whole year to be like a GC rider, right? Or, you know, like a a guy who dominates cycling. Sprinters dominate sprints. And so it's not been often that the world champion, for example, has been a pure sprinter except whenever it was a course. But usually, I mean, we had we had Sagan winning in a sprint. We had Cavendish winning in a sprint.

We had Chipolini. You know, not that many sprinters win the world championship. right no like the Cavendish Copenhagen year I mean here here's a question for me I'm slipping one in that is the end of the season to climb heavy because we've

think how good Vanderpoll and Van Ard are they've essentially bagged it like Vanderpoles at the Rider Cup he's out in LA doing hipster group rides because there's nothing left for him for the rest of the year yeah yeah it feels like the schedule has gotten to

it's shifted to two difficult. And also, Spencer, I mean, in the case of Van Arta and Van Arpul, you know, let's not forget, they were prime in March and April. That's their focus. Well, so then they, yeah, okay, with Bogacha is unique. And then they did the tour. Van Ard did Giro and tour, by the way. And so it's difficult to be still on your highest level at the end of the season, especially when the courses are not ideal for you. And I guess they are both going to race cross, right? Yeah, but it's going to be less and less, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. So they'll be, this is now their free time almost. And then, yeah, they'll have to rant back up in the off season. Here's another question from Rafa. These are good questions. People just throwing in good questions. So one thing no one seemed to call out about this previous world championships was the fact

that the Slovenian team lined up with nine grand tour wins among them with Roglich and Bogachar. Has that ever happened before in the history of cycling? Yeah, I don't have those stats, but that's, yeah, I mean, so Taday has won

five and Primos has won four. Right? Yeah. Did Primos win four or five? Four. Walthus How many? So did he win four? times the volta or three times the welta

primos wait hold on a second i think it's ten in total yeah because he has four volta's and and one zero so yeah five and five yeah wait yeah and tere is five so it's ten holy smokes i mean and this person even expands it out to trade teams but can you even estana with the lance and three contador wins i guess

oh three yeah with the geo yeah and the gio and the and the Vuelta, yeah, yeah, yeah. At the end of 2009, it would have been 10. Yeah. But man, on a national team, I don't think that's ever happened, right? I mean, it's not difficult, difficult to imagine. I don't think so. It's funny, we did totally gloss over that.

I didn't even think about it until I got this question. Yeah. No, it's, that's, yeah, that's impressive. That is impressive. And for a country like Slovenia with two million, two million people in it. And you know what's crazy about Slovenia is like the NBA season is getting ready to start here. The odds on MVP for the NBA is from Slovenia. Like it's not like they're just pumping out.

By the way, great boost for the European Cycling Federation and European Championships. European championships next year in Slovenia. But get this, world is in Canada. So they've, I guess it's the same as flying back from Kigali kind of. But you got to fly back. They have to do something about the dates. I know. Yeah.

Because presumably Prozsche is going to go for the world's next year on a course that suits him. And then he's going to fly back. Yeah. Yeah. We should go to that. That'd be kind of fun. Slovenia, European championships. Okay.

Last question. I may be in Slovenia for another event. You know, we're, you know, I'm collaborating with a new event. It's called Everest. which is basically, you know, doing the amount of vertical meters on a bike equivalent to the Everest, which is 8,800. And so we're looking at maybe an event in Slovenia. We just had the world championships Everesting in Sicily on the Mount Etna two weeks ago.

So won by a good friend, Jack Burke, by the way. that's cool he yeah he won he's world champion everesting now and so the purpose is to expand that over a few new events and so Slovenia is on the list of one of the potential places to do the Everest thing on actually one of the clams which is one of Taday Pagaccha's favorite training clamps when he was young what's the climb I don't know the name I have it written down but I don't I don't know the name I did there there's a big Not a, it's, it's pretty big mountain pass that's like half, it's like cobbled in the corners. It's very cool that I wonder if that's the one.

But yeah, shout out Jack Burke. It did it like seven half hours. And I would say Etna, not even the best time because, you know, there's like a lot of science that goes into a fast ever string time. And Etna, I would not pick that if I was trying to go for the world record. That's a very fast time on that climb. So this is from Pat and Bend, Oregon. Looking at Remko's dominance in the world championships and euros in the time trials, do you think it's possible ASO could design a route that aligns with enough recent tours

but has enough time trial distance that Remco could take yellow to Paris? There is time trialling in weeks two and three of the tour too much of a different animal. We can't expect him to take two minutes on Pagotcha. I think I got bad news for Pat. I think he might need 25 minutes on Pagetcher. So maybe not 25 minutes, but, you know, I agree, it's a big difference, time trials as a one-off event and then in Grand Tours. Remko is going to take time on Polachar in time trials, but not much.

Not enough. So, yeah, I don't see, I mean, I don't think, I don't see ASO changing their route in favor of a time trial list. Um, you never know, but I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't think it's going to be enough. So 2024, Remko is probably the best climber I've ever seen him in his career at the tour. Do you know how far back he finished from Tadipagatja in that race? Um, close to 10 minutes. Yeah, nine minutes, 18 seconds. So by the way, I was, I mean, speaking of the tour and that time trial, man, I mean, I was just last week in, uh, yeah.

in in in uh on the french riviera and monaco and nice and so one of those little little rides we went up i went up the side of uh coldes like the steep side right i could not believe how steep that was yeah so steep and and you know to go up there with your time for bike it's it's it's it's crazy actually spencer i mean and you know you know you've done this a few times you know if you see these guys flying up there and then you go there with your bike you struggle to make it to the top on your smallest year and he said, how fast are these guys going? It's crazy. It is crazy.

Or are slow are we going? No, that can't be. That can't be it. Yeah, I say this. It's both. It's both. It really helps actually fan, you know, because you can say things, you can think things. But I had the opposite experience where I wrote it before them.

And I wrote it. And then I did the dissent, which I don't find to be an easy descent to end to Nis. And I thought there's no way they can do this on time trial bikes. No way. And then I'm there for the event and they're doing on like ripping up that on time trial bikes. It's mind blowing. It's good to remember how good they are. Yeah.

But the stage seven time trial of 2024, I was at this race actually. It was it had some climbing, but it was pretty fast, pretty flat, 53k an hour about 25K long. Evanapult gets 12 seconds on Pagachar. So let's say that's a hundred kilometer time trial and it gets the same amount of time. What is he getting like 48 seconds or something on Pagachar? Like here, just make sure that. Even if he gets two minutes, Spencer. So at this level, this level of Pogacar now and the level of Remko last year, which I agree, he was probably the best.

It's not going to be enough. So they would need roughly. like, what, like 10, 100 kilometer long time trials? Like, that's the math, it starts to get a little bit. It's not as exponential as that, but listen, I mean, in the ground tours, you know, after a week of racing, Bogacar is just almost at the same level as the best time prowess. Doesn't matter. He's top three.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's what we talked about the last few weeks is stand-alone time trailing is so different. Yeah. Got Char, Remko and a Grand Tour aren't that different of time trialist. So no matter what the route is, it could be difficult for it to match up. We have been going for a minute. Do you have any, that's the end of the questions.

Do you have anything else before we take off, Johan? I think that's it, Spencer. I think we've covered most of it. Nice. Jay Clark says five in the comments about it. I assume Primo Zeroglich's grand tour wins, yes. Yeah, that Prima's a pretty good rider. We kind of forgot about him.

But I assume he'll be at Lombardia. He'll be at Emilia. He will. Yeah, actually, no, now I'm excited to watch it with Del Toro and Roglich. We'll see what happens. But we'll be, thank you everyone for joining live. We'll try to be doing this every week during the offseason. And we'll be back next Friday, not with a move plus, but with an outcomes for Lombardia.

And then we'll have a breakdown after that race on the move. Sorry, Primus Roglidge is not at Emilia. Just checked. What? Yeah. Primos. Is he doing anything else? I don't know.

Wait, he's at, is he at? No, he's not at European championships either. But he's going, wait a second. Hold on a second. He's not on the start list. He's not. Wait. Yeah, I don't understand it either, but...

Wait, are you looking at pro-cycling stats? Yeah. 2025 Zero Del Amelia. Mm-hmm. I see Red Bull Bora has giant... Oh, okay, sorry, sorry, sorry. My mistake. My mistake.

Okay. I was looking at this. That's what I thought happened. Okay. And we'll be back next week. Okay. Thanks. All right.

Talk to you later. Bye.