Theology in the Raw - A Gospel-Centered Perspective on the War in Israel-Palestine: Dr. Fares Abraham

Episode Date: July 25, 2024

Dr. Fares Abraham is a Palestinian-American born in Bethlehem and is the founder and CEO of Levant Ministries. He is passionate about reaching the next generation with the gospel, making disciples, and raising leaders in the Middle East. Fares leads multiple ministries across the region. He also serves as an adjunct faculty and online chair at Liberty University. In this conversation, Fares offers a gospel-centered perspective on the kingdom of God, reaching people for Christ, and how Christians can keep Jesus at the center of their thoughts on Israel-Palestine. Find out more about Fares and his ministry: https://levantministries.org Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hey friends, welcome back to another episode of theology in the raw. My guest today is my new friend, Dr. Ferris Abraham, who is a Palestinian American Christian born in Bethlehem. He's the founder and CEO of Levant ministries, which is an absolutely incredible ministry. You'll hear more about it in this conversation. Dr. Dr. Abraham is passionate about reaching the next generation with the gospel, making disciples and raising leaders in the middle East. He leads multiple ministries across the region. He also serves as an adjunct faculty and online chair at Liberty university. I got connected with Ferris through a mutual friend and heard some of his interviews. And I was like, man, I have to have this guy on the

podcast. Let me just say this, his gospel centered perspective on complex political issues, specifically the current conflict in Israel, Palestine is absolutely contagious. And I just love how, uh, how, yeah, how gospel centered he is. So I think if you're a Christian and you like the gospel and you like Jesus, I think you'll really, really appreciate and resonate with Ferris' perspective. So please welcome to the show for the first time,

the one and only Dr. Ferris Avery. All right. I'm here with my new friend. Can I call your friend? Yes, absolutely. Well, you're a friend of the podcast, right? I mean, do you say you've been listening to you for a very long time? Really? Since when? I'm curious. That's scary. A couple of years. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've been following it. It's just amazing what God is doing through you, Preston.

I'm so incredibly honored to be with you. Well, thank you for being a guest. I just recently heard you on my friend, our mutual friend, Daniel Bonora's podcast. And I was so, so impressed with, with, with your gospel centered perspective on, you know, specifically the, the Israel, Palestine, the stuff going on in Israel, Palestine, they called a war, call it a conflict, call it, some people call it a genocide. But I just, I loved your, the way you, your perspective was just so saturated with the gospel. I thought it was incredibly helpful. And I said, man, I got to have

you on the, to basically do what you did on Daniel's podcast on here. But first tell us who you are. Give us a background of who you are and what is it that you do. And I would love for you to just talk briefly about Levant Ministries and what God's doing through that. Yeah, absolutely. So I was born and raised in Bethlehem, the little town of Bethlehem. And I moved to the United States for college. I went to Liberty University. And this is where I actually, I was a nominal Christian. I was a CEO Christian, Christmas Easter only. I don't know if you heard that expression before. When I was in Palestine, but my family never converted from anything. We've always lived in Palestine for hundreds of years and some argue that Palestinian Christians

arguably maintained presence since the inception of the church, the day of the Pentecost. So they have maintained gospel witness for thousands of years. So this is my heritage. I'm very, very proud of it. But I never really had the personal relationship, a personal encounter with Jesus. I know all the biblical stories. I've walked where Jesus walked.

I've done all the tours. And I took people there. But I really, in 2002, that's when I really had an encounter with God gave my life to Christ I got baptized and I wanted to be just to devote my entire life to service So and I moved to Washington DC got a job In corporate America became very successful climbing the corporate ladder, but I always believed that was created for more My life is not random here. It's not a chance God has the corporate ladder, but I always believed I was created for more.

My life is not random here. It's not a chance. God has divinely orchestrated everything in my background, my culture, my education to bring me to a point where I can be fully used by Him for His eternal purposes. So throughout this journey, I discovered that I need to leave my job and launch Levant Ministries, which focuses on sharing the good news of the gospel

with all Arabic speaking people. We focus mainly on reaching young people, because as you know, Middle East has young population, some studies, Arab Youth Survey, you know, youth policy dot org. They say that between 50 to 60 percent are under the age of 25 in the Middle East. So it's a very young population. And we just need to give them the hope and the love of the gospel. And that's what we do.

And discipleship is the backbone of our ministry. we raise leaders and we plant next-gen centers. Our ministry is called Levant which encompasses the Levant region but when we reach people on the ground we are known by the next-gen, next-gen ministries. So we we plant life-giving next-gen centers for the purpose of reaching students and young adults with the gospel and Helping them to become more and more like Jesus I'm curious use Did you you work for the government the US government for a bit, right?

Was it the Department of Defense or what was your can you talk about what you did there just briefly? Or yeah, I was I was a trainer was an instructional designer. I did a lot of consultant work during the Iraq War regarding the Middle East, language, history, media, different kind of things. So that kind of helped shaped a lot of my understanding, not about just my Middle Eastern heritage and background, but also about, you know, us policy, us, you know, how faith and politics intertwined in this country and so on and so forth.

And so that, that was, I'm grateful for that chapter, but I'm, I'm, I'm serving a higher purpose now. Oh, that's awesome. I'm curious with younger, is that, is that think about like, I mean, my American context, Gen Z, they're just, they're just, they're thinking differently. They're asking different questions. If they're raised in a religious environment, they're kind of like questioning things, you know, and so sometimes asking really good and hard questions, you know, um, do you, when it comes to, uh, uh, younger Arabs, I mean, are they going through this, a similar

kind of like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, questions, you know? When it comes to younger Arabs, I mean, are they going through this similar kind of like maybe deconstruction or maybe they're just not absorbing the faith of their parents or grandparents or what's cool? How would you describe, yeah, Gen Z? Yeah. I mean, most of them, they believe in God, but they not necessarily are devoted to a spiritual living. They view their religion as identity, as a cultural identity, it's something very, very dear and special to them in a sense that it gives them a sense of belonging more than a sense of hey I have a spiritual relationship with God and I you know this God has a purpose and plan

for my life and I can't wait to really discover what that is so it's religion in the Middle East it's very diverse people have different views of who God is and they you know unfortunately our view fortunately or unfortunately for some cases our views of God dictate how we behave and how we interact and But what I know is that Gen Z next generation in the Middle East are vibrant. They are you know exuberant full of energy energy, full of aspirations and hope. We have seen a lot of them leaving the Middle East for many, many different reasons, political,

educational, economic reasons. But we're praying that the church in the Middle East would stand strong, resolutely proclaiming the good news of the gospel and helping young people discover their God-given purpose. And that's why God has put in my heart to, you know, I came from the Middle East looking for a better future. And that's why my dad sent me here to the United States. But I believe that God is not done with the Middle East. He's got greater purpose.

The Middle East was the center, the epicenter of outreach in the early days. And the gospel was born in the Middle East. So I believe it's our mandate to bring it back. And that region would thrive with churches, with people who would live in peace and harmony and proclaiming the good news in a very hostile environment. I'm curious, I mean, we can just jump right into it. How has the recent, and there's no like term that everybody's gonna be happy with.

We'll just say the recent conflict in Israel-Palestine. How has that affected the kingdom work, the kingdom work you're engaged in or just kingdom work as a whole, if that makes sense? In many different ways. You know, my wife was born in Gaza and not too many people know that there is a Gaza Baptist Church. This is where my wife attended Sunday school. This is where she accepted Christ. This is where she was baptized. And there is Gaza actually in the in the fourth, fifth century was the mission hub of many mission work all around the region. And we still have family members, my wife's family members, they're still taking shelter at one of the two churches. And two days ago, they were asked to evacuate because of the Israeli continuous bombardment

of the region. And the churches didn't escape those atrocities. We still have family members there. Some are trying to make it out. It's very difficult. It's very, very devastating. Gaza has been, you know, leveled to the ground. All 18 universities have been bombed. Hospitals have been bombed.

Christian churches have been bombed. The deaths is just rising and rising. There was a recent report, I don't know if you heard of it, that says they're estimating over 160 or 180,000 deaths in Gaza. We still don't know if that's true or not, but the amount of damage and the amount of destruction is just unbearable.

And it has taken a toll on us at the personal level, at the family level, but also at the ministry level, because the people that we're trying to reach with the gospel, Preston, are questioning on us at the personal level, at the family level, but also at the ministry level, because the people that we're trying to reach with the gospel, Preston, are questioning what is the church position? Where does the church stand in all of this? Does the church endorse such conflict? Does the church justify such conflict? And unfortunately, a lot of, and I can't overgeneralize because there are a lot of people

who have been vocally opposing what's happening in Gaza. And, but the people in the Middle East, especially Palestinians are questioning now, where is God? And if we can't find God through the speeches of Christians, through the pulpits, through the messages, through the love and the compassion and the care, then what kind of witness are we showing to non-believers, our people from the other side of the spectrum? So that's, it's really devastating at the personal level, but also at a ministry level,

we're seeing when people politicize this and when people actually spiritualize this conflict, there is a downturn to it, and there's real and dire implications on the ground to the progress of the gospel. The gospel will not go forward when people have a distorted view of God, especially revealed through his son, Jesus Christ.

And when Christians start using theological language and theological justification to any war, any conflict, this is when our witness becomes in jeopardy. So you're saying when the Palestinians are trying to reach for the gospel, when they see the Christian church on the side of the military that's bombing and destroying a lot of the people that's not necessarily attracting people to that, the God who is being perceived as God of mercy. God of peace and God of reconciliation. I mean, they're getting a different version of the Jesus we preach.

So that makes our job on the ground. Christian witness throughout the Middle East, it's not just in Palestine. We're talking about there's a strong Christian presence in Egypt. There's strong Christian It's not just in Palestine. We're talking about, there's a strong Christian presence in Egypt. There's strong Christian presence in Lebanon, in Syria. It used to be in Iraq, but whatever those remnant, faithful indigenous church who survived thousands of years of persecutions and heartaches,

our witness is on the line here because of the loud voices that are theologically justifying any killing you know and as Palestinian Christians as Christians forget about nationalities as faithful followers of Christ we need to condemn every killing because we believe every human life is created in the image of the Most High God it's it's it. It's created in the likeness of God. It has the dignity. It has, you know, even the worst terrorists ever

deserves love and compassion because this is what Jesus taught us. This is the Jesus way. And you know, Preston, Jesus was a paradigm shifter in so many different ways And we are called to emulate him Jesus I call him the paradigm shifter because of his maybe transformative teachings If we look at the new testament, you know

Jesus introduced radical ideas about love loving not just loving your neighbors, but loving your enemies, going the extra mile, imagining Jesus preaching, you know, the extra mile to a Jewish audience who were under the oppression of the Romans. And he's essentially telling them, hey, if a Roman soldier asks you to carry his pack for one mile, which is required by law, you need to go the second mile.

Now, how humiliating is that? But this is the type of transformative teachings that Jesus is calling us. This is the higher standard. We can either sit on either political side and start condemning, you know, you condemn October 7, you condemn the indiscriminate bombing. We can go on for, you know, as condemn October 7, you condemn the indiscriminate bombing.

We can go on for, you know, as ministers of the gospel, I think we need to elevate that conversation to be gospel-centered. How does God view this conflict? Where does God want to take this conversation? You know, Jesus, the paradigm shifter, he was also, he preached inclusivity. In many ways, he broke down so many barriers, different people groups, different ethnicities. You know, we see him, how he dealt with the Samaritans,

enemies of the Jews. We see him how he dealt with the Canaanite woman. We see him going to the other side of the lake. We just see him going through these barriers that we Christians tend to, hey, let's build walls here. Let's do this. Let's do that. And so Jesus is, I think, you know, is calling us to a whole different level where the conversation needs to be elevated to. That's good. I love that. What would you say to somebody who, who still is kind of hung up on maybe some of the political questions, you know, maybe

they would, you know, Christian saying, yeah, yeah, but yeah, you know, he had this terrorist organization that slaughtered all these people. And, and of course Israel has a right to defend itself and war is hell, but what are you going to do? Just reward this call, ceasefire and any reward this terrorist organization that's just going to do it again and again and again. Like I can't help but support what they would see. Maybe it's a just war. Okay. Yes. Any kind of civilian death is bad, but that's just, that is part of war. And Israel is doing what it can to avoid that. Not perfectly, you know, but this is the

perspective. You know, I do hear people that, you know, are, I don't want to say hung up. I think those are legitimate, you know, questions and concerns, but yeah, you just keep kind of bringing it back to the gospel. So what would, what would you say to a Christian that has those concerns? Well, if we're called Christians, I think we're called to a higher level. We need to those concerns? Well, if we're called Christians, I think we're called to a higher level. We need to think differently. You know, I recently had a conversation with a friend and I described that there is a three-prayer model that exists in the church.

There are Christians who pray nationalistically. They pray nationalistic prayers. And this nationalistic prayer goes like this, you know, I want God to send all the Palestinians to their neighboring Arab countries because this is where they belong. Israel is the only Jewish state and Palestinians, they belong to the Arabs, so why don't they go to Jordan? Why don't they go to Egypt? That's a nationalistic prayer. In that nationalistic prayer, Palestinians may be praying something like this, that God will send the Jews back to Europe or wherever they come from. Now, this nationalistic prayer exists within the church, unfortunately. There's

another type of prayer that exists within the church, which is, I call it a political prayer. And in this political prayer, you'll find people praying similar to what you're saying. God, I want you to get rid of Hamas. This is a just war. They get what they deserve and they use human, they use Palestinians as human shield. So this is justifiable if they go to war. And on the other side of the spectrum you'll find people praying something like this, God please remove Netanyahu and his radical government from power so we can live in peace. So let's get rid of Hamas, let's

get rid of the radical elements in Israel so we can live in peace. That's maybe a political prayer. But I believe God is calling us as Christians, as followers of Jesus, to a gospel-centered prayer where we pray for peacemakers. And this is where Palestinian Christians' voices become so important because they preach the gospel from their pulpit.

My friends, they lead their congregation praying for their Jewish neighbors and praying for their Muslim neighbors and praying for everyone. This is what Jesus taught us to do. This is what Jesus gave us. The greatest commandment is to love God and to love people. So we can engage in political condemnation, justification all day long, but at the end of the day, we can give people justice. What does justice mean if you lose your eternity? And what does it mean if you gain the whole world and you lose yourself? This is what really should keep us up at night as Christians.

We are called to fulfill the great commission. We are called to be disciple makers. We are called to preach the good news. We are called to, you know, to preach peace and justice and love. And for me, this takes priority over anything else. That's so good. I'm curious, are there, I mean, I know there has been, I think there are like just conversations among Israeli Christians and Palestinian Christians

who find themselves politically on maybe different sides of the conflict. And yet I would hope there's some level of gospel unity of, hey, because we're both Christians, we do see eye to eye on these types of things. Can you tell us about some of those conversations? There have been really good initiatives in the past, and there are still good initiatives right now, but they're not really giving the attention and the support they deserve, especially

from our fellow American evangelical community. I believe the American evangelical community have been given so much and it's been trust, God has entrusted the evangelical community with so much influence, so much resources, so much respect. And they, we could play a much bigger role in those kind of initiative in bringing people together rather than, you know, building that wall that Jesus in Ephesus two, you know, he knocked it right down, right? The wall of hostility, you know, there's no longer in Jesus,

there is no Jew or Gentile, neither, you know, free or slave, female or female, but we are all in one. And this is my argument, Preston. I believe, firmly believe, foundationally believe that Old Testament believers and New Testament believers are one covenant community beautifully connected through the cross. And in that community, which is, you know, Paul describes in a beautiful olive tree, the branches that believe they remained from the Jewish community, the branches that didn't believe they were cut off, but there were also branches they were grafted on, grafted in. So I believe

that the covenant is there, the love is there, the will is there. let's just become peacemakers. Let's not look at the conflict from a political lens. Let's not look at the conflict from a spiritual conflict lens even. Let's look at it from a missiological lens. And when the church looks at this conflict missiologically, our priorities are going to change. And instead of just supporting a political agenda, we start supporting kingdom agenda. But the thing is it could be twisted and could be misleading to the point that people will get behind a so-called biblical agenda, but it actually has severe and negative implications, and it causes peoples to suffer. I had a conversation with a world evangelist.

He's a dear friend of mine. He said, God is involved in human suffering. God is not absent to what's happening now in Palestine and Israel. I said, I agree, but the suffering of Christians, especially Christian Palestinians, in their homeland is not divinely ordained, is not divinely endorsed, and is not divinely tolerated for prophecy fulfillment. So he's essential saying, this has to happen,

this conflict must take place because of prophecy fulfillment. Now for me, I'm on the receiving end, sitting here pressing and saying, if prophecy fulfillment is gonna cause my family suffering, my pain, then I'm gonna reject this prophecy fulfillment. I'm not gonna take it. Because take it because my own family have gone through really painful chapters during the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

My mom was shot when I was 10 years old by an Israeli soldier randomly, indiscriminately. He just saw us playing in front of our house and he felt like opening gunfire. A bullet struck her in the back. She miraculously survived. My dad was thrown in prison for no reason, no charges whatsoever, as so thousands of Palestinian prisoners. I've seen close friends, a 14-year-old friend friend shot dead by an Israeli settler in the West Bank.

Now, despite whatever I've gone through, if this is prophecy fulfillment, then as a Christian, I'm going to reject it, let alone like as a Muslim or an atheist, you know, looking at all of this and saying, this is the God of the Bible orchestrating all of this. For me, this is just indigestible. It is spiritually indigestible. So we have to look at it differently. We have to view that conflict in a different lens, which is a missiological lens. The older I get, the more I find myself wanting to be more intentional about the way I live,

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this episode. Well, there's a couple of different problems to that prophecy fulfillment thing. Number one, I mean, I think it's a misreading of scripture. I don't think these prophecies can be I mean, I think it's a misreading of scripture. I don't think these prophecies can be accurately found in the Old or New Testament. Secondly, I think we need to make a distinction. Let's just assume it was, let's assume there was a prophecy of some future thing that's happening today. There's a difference between God sort of endorsing that versus God saying, Hey, at a future time, a Syria is going to invade and skin a bunch of people. Like just saying, this is going to happen matter of factly without saying this is something that I'm celebrating.

So even if it was a fulfillment of God looking through the corridors of time and saying these events are going to happen, that doesn't mean God's like endorsing that. He's just saying this is simply going to happen. So I don't know offense to your friend, but I think that that's problematic on several levels, but, um, your points well taken. I mean, gosh, um, what, what would it look like for, let's just say the Western church to have a more gospel centered perspective on what's going on in Israel-Palestine. Yeah. R. Absolutely.

Yeah. The disciples actually inquired about this question in Acts chapter 1 verses 6 through 8, you know, after the resurrection, and they came to Jesus. And you know, if you read scriptures, the disciples even had misunderstanding of many theological frameworks. But when they came, I was in the Philippines just a couple of weeks ago, celebrated 40 year anniversary of Every Nation,

a church that my friend, dear friend, Steve Morrill planted in the Philippines, in Manila. And it grew to become a movement all over the world, over 500 churches worldwide. It became from a mission field. He went as a missionary to the Philippines and now became a mission force. Amazing what guy's doing. So during his 40-year anniversary, he preached from Acts 1, 6 through 8. And he said something very, very interested. He said, you know, when the disciples came to Jesus, they asked him, hey, when are you going to restore

the kingdom to Israel? And Jesus responded, he said, it's not for you to know the times, right, or the dates, but you will receive power. So he said, it's not knowledge, but power. And it's not political, but spiritual. And it's not local, but global, because he said, you will receive power, you'll be witnesses in Jerusalem, in Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. So God, first of all, is not a racist God. He's not a real estate broker.

And he's not concerned with a mere strip of land on the Mediterranean coast. As a matter of fact, God owns the entire universe. And he gave Abraham the world to inherit. That's Romans 413. He said, you know, I'm not going to just give you this small strip of land, I'm going to give you the entire universe. And if we put our faith in Christ, right, we inherit God's promises. That's Galatians 3, 28, 29, and so many different Bible verses that support this idea that now the covenant is revealed. It's not a replacement. I'm not a replacement theology guy. I don't say that the church replaced Israel or the other way around, but it's a continuation. God is a covenant-keeping God, and His covenant

is revealed, but we have a fuller revelation of that covenant. So the church can really play a big role when it stops focusing on earthly kingdom and earthly agenda and actually start bearing fruits in the kingdom of God. And Jesus set the agenda already for the kingdom of God. He already gave plenty of messages. He gave plenty of sermons. Even then, let's go back to the first sermon that Jesus preached. Remember that in Luke 4? You know, he was baptized. He received power. He went to the wilderness.

He was tested. He overcame the temptation. And then he went to his hometown, to Nazareth. He went to the synagogue. He opened the Bible to Isaiah. He said, the Spirit of the Lord is upon me, and so on and so forth. And then everyone, everyone all spoke well of him,

and they were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. Until he said this, Preston, okay? Everything was going so smoothly for him in the first inaugural speech that Jesus gave at the synagogue until he said, you know, during the time of the great famine in Elijah's times, there were so many widows in Israel, but Elijah was only sent to one of them.

Who was that widow? It was the widow of Seraphath in the region of Sidon, a Lebanese widow, okay? And he continued and said, during the time of Elisha, there were a lot of people with leprosy, but only one man was cleansed, which was Naaman the Syrian. So here Jesus in a Jewish synagogue preaching a message that says God had mercy and showed mercy only to a Lebanese widow and he only showed grace and mercy during great and dire times to a Syrian army commander, you know, King Aram, who's enemies of Israel. So when they heard this, they were so furious. They drove him out of town and they wanted to throw him over the cliff.

But what was Jesus saying? And this is the message that we need to really capture is during crazy times, triumph of conflict, struggles, starvation, famine, earthquakes, wars, death, genocide, whatever you call it. During this time, we need to keep our eyes focused

on what God wants to do. He wants all people to be saved. Lebanese, Syrians, Egyptian, Palestinians, Israelis, God so loved the world. As simple as this message is, Christians are failing to carry this message so effectively. And I don't wanna over generalize again, some Christians we are failing to deliver God's love message so clearly, so articulately

to the point that you know, hey, who's going to oppose love? Who's going to oppose the God of the Bible showing love and mercy dying on behalf of the sinner, given eternal life, given us peace. Who's gonna oppose that? So this is really the struggle that we have and this is the message that I have for my fellow Christians all around the world. Man, I'm curious if you have,

do you have any positive stories in the midst of the recent conflict and maybe the Christian response to it has been maybe confusing to Palestinians you're trying to reach, you know, or Arabs where you're trying to talk to them about this Christian God when they're hearing about this Christian God in ways that are maybe less than attractive? Do you have any positive stories with the Gospels really less than attractive. Do you have any positive stories with the gospels really showing bright in the midst of these dark times? Absolutely. So when we get involved in God's work, God is going to come so powerfully and He's going to transform the hardest of hearts, Preston. We've seen it day in and day out. We have a

very effective media ministry that reaches millions in Arabic. The stories we get, the testimonies, it just is so unreal. Some of it, it's very sensitive to share it here in a public platform. But I've seen the transformation within our own community. Let me share with you a story from Egypt. You know, Christians for the most part in the Middle East have built walls around them based on because of past persecutions, you know, fear, different type of things, the hostile environment they live in. So they stopped sharing, you know, the gospel with their neighbors. And we had, we have some of our friends coming together for Bible studies, for groups at our location in Cairo. And some of these nominal Christians

would come to know Christ as personal Savior and they become so on fire for God. And part of our training, we train them how to really not just, you you know have passion for people who look like us But we need to develop passion for everyone around us, especially in our loving community. So we have this this This lady called Marina. She just came from a very tough mentality She didn't want to even share anything about Christ with anybody else because they she believed that they don't even deserve it anything about Christ with anybody else because they she believed that they don't even deserve it But when God got a hold of her life, she transformed her thinking and now she's just a soul winner She's just on fire for God Sharing the message reaching to her neighbors doing a lot of different

online discipleship groups from all across the Arab world So it just I believe the part of the gospel gospel is more than enough for us to really celebrate and just to capitalize on rather than just, you know, doing political scores or just, you know, getting a political party elected and power and, you know, we want to overcome evil. You know, we have the power of the gospel, more powerful, more effective than any other tools that we think we have.

Wow, that's so good. I'm curious, you live in America now, right? You're in DC? I split my time between, you know, Florida and the Middle East, so it's kind of, I live in a live in a suitcase in a way. Do you feel you still, I mean, you have lived in America almost as many, if not more years than, than in, in the West bank. Okay. Wow. So you have a great perspective on kind of like what, how Americans think and how Palestinians think. And I try. Yeah. Well, what would be some, for my majority American, or at least Western audience, that's not Palestinian, not from the Middle East, what are some big, maybe false

assumptions or misunderstandings Western, let's just say Western Christians have of maybe Palestinians. Yeah. Yeah. You've watched the debate between Trump and Biden, right? As much as I can handle. So Trump called Biden a Palestinian. Oh yeah. A very bad Palestinian. He used it as a slur, he used it as a slur. Exactly, so he used Palestinian as a slur.

And for me, this is, you know, unfortunately when I see Christians going down that path Not just Palestinian Muslims in general Islamophobia is a real thing just as much as Antisemitism is a real thing, right? You know, we overemphasize Antisemitism and antisemitism is a pure evil. It must be condemned must be confronted. We can't tolerate it whatsoever It must be confronted. We can't tolerate it whatsoever But also in the meantime, we have other ideologies that are as much evil as anti-semitism Islamophobia, so

Muslims are taken over the West they are infiltrating and this is what they say, right? Essentially. This is what Trump was saying Muslims are taken over the West then they're infiltrating our governments, our college campuses. And I say, well, well, let's preach the gospel and pray. And when my friends say, oh, yes, we preach the gospel and pray, but we don't trust God. When we pray, we got to do it ourselves. We need to stop them from doing that. They are already taking over Europe and the world is changing, the demographics are changing. For me, this is the gospel of fear. This is instilling fear. And I have so many people that are willing to, because they have become so entrenched, Pristan, with this ideology that Islam is taking over, we are in danger, real democracy

is on the line. I have lost a dear friend, a very close ally, a very close dear friend who I hosted him in my home and we've broken bread together, we've done ministry together, but he was just so consumed with demonizing and dehumanizing the other so we can justify wars and killing and whatever else, right?

So, and you know, you become, you disagree with everything everyone is saying so you can justify your own political position. Unfortunately, some Christians stop believing in the power of the gospel. We just have lost hope that the gospel is powerful enough to change the most radical terrorist and transform him or her into a world evangelist, a world missionary like Paul, right? Oh yeah yeah, we read about Paul and he's wrote to Damascus and, you know, I don't know if God will do it, but we have seen it. We have seen that happen in the Middle East, where ISIS fighter turned to Christ, where Hamas people turned to

Christ, where so many people, you know, miraculously, whether it's through vision and dreams or whether through a, you know, a gospel centered witness, you know, in the, whether it's through vision and dreams or whether through a, you know, a gospel-centered witness, you know, in the face of all these complexities. So we have, we have this pre, you know, preconceived misconception that we need to fight an ideology for that ideology is not to infiltrate. So for that we have, we should, we should believe in the power of the gospel and number two, we cannot demonize others so we can stay in power.

Because this world is not our home. And no matter how passionate you become politically, I suggest that you step aside from your pulpit as a minister of the gospel, pursue a political life, and we'll get behind you. We'll vote for you, because you're going to give account to God. But as ministers of the gospel, as Christians, as followers of Christ, we need to keep our pulpit pure,

untainted by any political allegiances. So the kingdom's agenda will advance and the kingdom of God extends. That's so, that's beautiful, dude. I'm curious, just, cause you kind of mentioned it past like when people in the West think of Islam, they often think of radical Islam, militant people, you know, and this is a genuine question. I just don't know. Like, obviously there is a radical militant brand of Islam. How widespread is that? Is that a real threat? Is that, or is it like so minuscule that we don't need to worry about it? Or help us understand, how should we think about?

the more radical forms of Absolutely, I mean radical ideologies exist within Islam Radical ideology exists within some you know Christianity Radical ideologies exist when you have people taking their script or scriptures and they're twisting it and they're weaponizing it to achieve political agenda, that's real. And it has manifested in so many different countries in the Middle East. We cannot deny that.

But when it comes to the Palestinian context, we have to realize that this is not, you know, in any way a spiritual warfare. It is not a war between biblical Israel and their enemies. It is not a war between God of the Bible against his enemies. Palestinian case, and this is where I feel most comfortably talking about, because this is where I'm from, this is the neighbors that I grew up in, you know, there are some ideologies that promote violence. Christian Palestinians, we do not and we condemn, we do not condone any violent resistance. There is a political argument to be made about, you know, violent resistance as a legitimate tool to resist the occupier. As Christians we need to, we always have taken historically and until today and I will continue to fight for this for the

rest of my life, Christians remain free of any violence, because if you live by the sword, you will die by the sword. These are just simple Christian teachings. But there are some radical elements within each religion that promotes death and violence and destruction, and we need to call it out. We need to condemn it.

We need to confront it. But again, taking actions, I leave that to those who are in power. And I pray that God will steer their hearts to take a righteous course of action. That's my duty to pray for those who are in power because they will give account to God. And as far as for me as a Christian, I need to advocate what Christ advocated for peace, love, reconciliation, and no violence, no killing whatsoever, even against evil ones.

What, why are so many Palestinian Christians committed to nonviolence? Like it's over the last couple of years, as I've met, I don't think I've met a single one that's not committed to nonviolence. Whereas in the American context, like I'm going to, the fact that I advocate for non-violence makes me kind of on the frame. Like I'm going to nominally like it's like, Whoa, where'd you get that from? You know? Whereas it seems like it's the opposite among Palestinian Christians. I yet to meet somebody who's not committed to non-violence. And especially with coming from someone who has gone through

what I've gone through, you know, lasting getting, you know, our house was bombed by Israeli tank. Gaza Baptist Church has been burned and done, you know, where my wife grew up. We've seen the death of so many different friends, and we're still committed to that. We still committed because we believe in the power of Christ's message. We believe it transformed our hearts, our minds, our actions, and we need to have this living witness amplified. And it just becomes, this is who we are. This is the new creation in Christ. You know, it's as simple as this. When Christ gives you the second birth,

when you are in Christ, all things become new. And this is what the world often fails to understand. And I'm getting some critiques, you know, from even, you know, they call my views are just, you're just optimistic, you're just idealist, this is not real life. But I said, no, when Christ changes the heart, we have to live according to Christ's standards. So.

Wow. You mentioned, you've seen Hamas members turn to Christ? Is that, do you have stories about that? I mean, we have stories, I haven't seen it with my own eyes, but we've seen in communication with people coming to faith and saying, hey, I haven't seen it with my own eyes, but we've seen in communication with people coming to faith and saying, hey, I love Jesus. Jesus gives us peace, Jesus gives us eternal life, Jesus gives us love.

I mean, it just baffles people. It's not just Muslim background believers or Jewish background believers, people who are in general, when they encounter the teachings of Christ, who would just show them a better way of relating to God, calling God our Father is so transformative. It is so groundbreaking.

People don't realize how deep and how precious and how wonderful our God is when we can get so close to Him, come before the throne of grace and call Him Abba Father, our Father who is in heaven. He is the one who is in heaven, lives in us and He lives through us if we honor His name and if we honor His teachings and He becomes so real to people to the point that wow, how can you resist that? How can you really turn that away? You were, I mean, I want to, I just want to celebrate everything you're saying. I just

love your just, you're just so, you just keep bringing everything back to a gospel side of perspective, which I think is obviously very important. You know, this is what Jesus taught the disciples day in and day out. You know, look at another instance, first of all, Luke chapter 9. Okay, he was going to Jerusalem, but he wanted to go through Samaria. Now you know the story between the Samaritan and the Jews first century, you know, let's not just say Jews in general. First century Samaritans and Jews first century, you know, let's not just say Jews in general first century Samaritans and first century Jews they were just okay They they they had different versions of the Bible. They you know, the Samaritans worshiped in in Jersey

The Jews worshiped in different location in Jerusalem But Jesus wanted to go through Samaria. So They did not the Samaritans did not accept him. They did not give him visa, okay? They did not allow him into their territory. So what was James and John's response? They said, Lord, do you want us to call fire from heaven to destroy all these Samaritans? Jesus sharply repubed them, and he said, you guys, you don't know

what spirits you are from because the son of man came to save, not to destroy. So again, the disciples, they wanted to take things in their own hand. They wanted to pay back. But Jesus said, no, no, no, no, this is not the purpose of us being here in this land. We are preaching the gospel, preaching God's love.

We're preaching the liberation we're preaching freedom we're not supposed to hate our enemies and Jesus brings them back and again in Luke 13 that's why I love Luke you know in Luke 13 they came to him and say hey look what Pilate had done he's a terrorist he killed the worshippers in Jerusalem he mixed their blood with the blood of their sacrifices. What do you say? And he, you know, pointed them back to God's agenda. If you don't repent, you will all perish like this. Again, Jesus never, ever engaged in a political debate. He never engaged in taking sides. He was always showing us the way we should walk in. And I think it's a great tragedy when Christians just lose the way and they start going after

one ideology or championing one side over the other. I think we lose God's hearts that way. This episode is sponsored by the Pore Over podcast. Oh, my word. I love the Pore Over podcast. It is a trustworthy news resource guiding people toward eternal hope. It's not Republican, it's not Democrat, it's not conservative, it's not liberal. Instead, it is a Christ-centered summary of the major events going on in politics and in culture. Like most of you, I am so tired of news outlets that are so clearly biased toward the right or to the left. I wanna stay informed with what's going on,

but I hate how traditional news outlets shape my heart and try to win me to a certain side. I mean, if you don't believe me, just ask yourself this question. After listening to say, I don't know, CNN or Fox News for like 30 minutes, am I less or more or more motivated to love my neighbor and my enemy? If the answer is less than Houston, we have a huge problem, a discipleship problem. This is why I'm so excited about the Pour Over podcast. Each episode is only about seven minutes long, and they just tell you about what's going on in the world.

They don't tell you how to interpret the various events or how you should feel about what's going on. Instead, they just let you know about the facts of what's going on while reminding listeners that our ultimate identity and hope is in Jesus Christ. I've even met some of the people at the Poor Over, and they are super awesome.

They're not some like closeted liberal or closeted conservative think tank. Like they're truly genuinely just trying to keep us informed while staying focused on Christ. So don't let traditional media outlets steal your affection away from loving people who might vote differently than you. Instead, check out and subscribe to the Pore Over podcast in your favorite podcast app. It's funny. I mean, not funny. It's actually sad, but interesting that I've heard from people in Washington and American politicians, some of whom would say they're Christians, almost say the same thing James and John said, like, should we

not call down fire and just wipe out Gaza or, you know, if I had the opportunity, I would do this or they, they, there, there are no, I've, I mean, I've seen this really explicitly very blatantly that there are no innocent civilians, which is, I just don't know how you can say that no uninvolved civilians. It's just, it's, it's, it is strange that somebody could say that out loud. And it just kind of isn't, it's just kind of that op-ed in newsweek, just addressing this gentleman. I don't want to mention his name, but I called him out. He was, I would love to see that. Yeah, I haven't read that. Okay. He was educated by high prestigious Christian colleges, and he was an ordained pastor. And he

called for new king Gaza. And what came to mind was Luke 9. It was like, hey, the disciples wanted to do that and Jesus prevented them. Because every human life is valuable. I mean, if you see the images, if you follow the real news that comes out of Gaza, not the filtered one we get here through different outlets, your heart will break. Even the children, the amount of death among children is staggering. You know, during the early days of the war, Preston, Christians rushed, just they swiftly mobilized, they raised millions of dollars so fast to support the Israelis who were affected

by the atrocities of October 7. Rightly so, that's great. And we need to stand with the oppressed and people who died sinlessly at the hands of Hamas or any others. We cannot condone violence whatsoever. But in the meantime, and some of them, they even went high-profile Christians. They went the other way. They went even further by donating brand new ambulances

14 new ambulances to Israeli National Service And when I look at the other side You know when I get in touch with our families in the ground in Gaza in the church They're boiling grass to feed their children They don't have access some people even died because they don't have access. Some people even died because they don't have access to dialysis. Doctors are forced to perform amputations on children without anesthesia. There was a doctor that lost his own child while performing a surgery on her. Many stories like this. So when we look at the pain and suffering on

people on the other side, we can't just say, oh, this is, you know, Hamas is not our moral compass. It's not. Israel is not our moral compass. We look at the world and we look at human suffering and pain and agony through what Jesus went through, through the death on the cross, because by His tribes we were healed. We are healed and we are alive today and enjoying a very nice conversation here because of what Christ has done. He gave us His life. He extended our life to this point so we can testify about His goodness, about His love,

about His grace. We cannot withhold that from other people who haven't tasted it. This is how serious this is. And this should move us from the inside out to really act with compassion and grace. This is the very story that Jesus gave the Jewish lawyer, again, in Luke chapter 10. That's why I love you. You like the Gospel, Luke, don't you? Oh, I like the Gospel of Jesus. That's why I love you like the gospel. Luke, don't you? It's my favorite gospel.

It's it's you know, the story of the good Samaritan, you know, what do you do when you see a man laying on the ground, you know, naked, unconscious, you can't even identify him. You can't even know whether maybe he was a Hamas member. I don't know. So if I see a Hamas member naked and unconscious, a Hamas member, I don't know. So if I see a Hamas member naked and unconscious, would I be moved, you know, would I be moved with compassion just like Jesus did? When he saw the multitudes, the Bible says he was moved with compassion. If we're not moved with compassion, it doesn't matter. You know, and I wrote a social media post the other day, received some good attention. It says, I wrote a social media post the other day, received some good attention.

It says, Jesus never checked the voter ID of the people he fed on the mountain, the 5,000 people. He said, oh, you voted for this, you don't deserve food, right? I've heard this from a friend. You know, he said, well, they voted Hamas in power. Well, that was 17, 18 years ago, but even Jesus, he wouldn't check your background

to give you medicine. He wouldn't check your background or your voter, your political inclination to touch you. He touched this centurion servant. He healed so many different people from different political point of view, because this is his nature. And we are given his divine nature. He lives in us. And if we fail to do that, I think this is a serious, serious misconception that we need to address within ourselves. It's very problematic, I think, to say, since the citizens voted Hamas in the power 17 years ago, therefore they're sort of guilty or involved. That literally, correct me if I'm wrong, was the same exact logic used by Osama bin Laden and why he felt justified to kill citizens because well, the citizens of America are

the ones voting for the people in power that are creating all this chaos in the middle East. I mean, that, that kind of logic is just, well, it's, it's, we saw them a bit of logic. It's not like Christian logic, you know, and it, and it just misunderstood. It just doesn't, well, it doesn't take the time to understand the complexity of the various options in 20, what is it? 2007 or whatever. And the, you know, the PA and then the problems there. And it's just, it's a very, it's a perspective of somebody who just isn't from the middle.

It wasn't there. It doesn't understand the situation at all. I'm curious. I, this is kind of off, well, not totally off the topic, but our being raised in Palestine, our Palestinians sort of raised to be anti-Semitic. Are there, are they in schools? Like, are you the textbooks? Like, are you trained to kind of, you're laughing, but I've finished my question. Is that, cause I've heard that, that they, that it's kind of drilled into you from an early age

to really hate the Jewish people. No, no, not at all. Palestinians are against the occupation. They're not against the Jewish people. Look, antisemitism is the crime of the West. It's a Christian European problem. Muslims have never conducted a holocaust of this magnitude that took place in Germany and other parts of Europe. Jews have lived in peace, in relative peace. I'm not going to say they didn't have problems, they weren't discriminated against, just like here. I mean,

you have attacks against synagogues here and you have attacks against Christians here. I mean, discriminations and prejudice exist and it will continue to exist because we live in a sinful, fallen world. But to say that anti-Semitism is a Palestinian problem, that's very problematic. Most Palestinians, even, there was a video from Gaza, I'm going to send it to you after we're done talking There is a video from a guy who was stripped naked

Okay by and they had the Israeli soldier standing next to him and he was released because I don't know why they arrest people And they released them later He was saying I don't have any problem with any Jewish people and I Told this to the soldier. He said I don't have any problem with I have a problem with any Jewish people. And I told this to the soldier. He said, I don't have any problem with you. I have a problem with you as a soldier occupying and confiscating my land, not giving me my right. This is my core problem. This is my issue. But I don't have any problem with Jews for being Jews. We don't have a problem with Judaism. Now you will have some radical ideolog know, ideologues who would

say, no, no, no, Islam does not tolerate Judaism, Jews, Islam doesn't tolerate. And again, we go back to the fear-mongering, we go back to taking a white brush and painting everybody with this white brush. Anti-Semitism is not a Palestinian problem, and it will never be. And if it is, you will find Palestinian Christians speaking loudly and aggressively against it, just like we have since October 7th, and prior to October 7th. We believe that everyone should live

in peace and dignity in Palestine, whether you wanted to call it a two state solution or one state solution. We just want to get peace. We just want to live in peace and dignity. And this is the sentiment that I feel and I hear from millions of Palestinians all around, in Gaza, in Palestine, in the West Bank in Jerusalem and even

Palestinian citizens of Israel who live in You know in relative peace with Within Israeli societies. Yes, they are second-class citizens and they're discriminated against but for the most part they have You know rights to vote and to access to education and health care and everything. So Palestinians, they just want to live in dignity and peace. And they are willing and just like they have demonstrated in the past, Jews have always existed in Palestine. They lived in peace side by side with Palestinian Muslims and Christians. So importing that anti-Semitism and tried to fight it on the grounds of Palestine,

I think this is unfair, it's unjust, and we need to call things for what they are. End the occupation, give the people of Palestine their land, give them their dignity, their freedom, and then treat them as a state. If a state goes against it, this is more just than just a state. If a state goes against it, this is more just than just a state going against a group, a militant group, and collectively punish the entire population.

This is just wrong. I agree. I, what would you say to, and I know I've been pushing you to just, let's keep our Christian lens on as we should as Christians, but let's, let's just for a second, maybe ask the more broader political question. Can there be peace in Israel, Palestine while Hamas is still in existence? And what would you say to the political argument that Israel in, until he gets rid of Hamas, it can't have Pete. There will continue to be. I don't want Thomas in charge. I don't want Hamas in power. Palestine has one legitimate

representation, which is the PLO. They are recognized and you know, before they were recognized and put in power, keep in mind mind Preston, they were designated as a terrorist organizations. And then later on, you know, they change and they start talking and they start, you know, so this is, this is a game that we should not really put our minds and efforts into it, rather than we look at and we focus on what's really eternal. And this is where I would encourage all of our listeners and viewers, especially coming from Christian backgrounds. We need to extend the kingdom of God.

We need to preach the gospel. We need to make disciples. We need to plant hopes. We need to be peacemakers. This is what Jesus, this is the sacred calling that Jesus called us to. And this should be the first and the foremost of everything we're doing. Yeah. Even on just strictly political. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, um, but even, even, even on a political, like I, from my vantage point, it seems like Hamas is a bit of a nebula, a flexible almost concept. The

thought of I'm going to, we're going to kill every single member of Hamas. And then it's going to be, then that's going to be this, the next step towards peace. First of all, the banner in which they're going about it is just creating more, I think, militant, a militant response. Like I think you're probably, and I think this has been shown as a study. I read a while back that they're recruiting probably now more than ever. That's why it's still, you know, nine months later and they're still, they're still in charge. They're still somewhere and they're still holding hostages. I mean, when you're 50, if you're a 15 year old kid and a bomb comes and takes out your whole family and you're left with like, all right, what are you going to do?

I mean, I get Preston, I kid you not. He was carrying a bag crying and he said, this is the remains of my brother. This is what left. What has left of my family. Okay a 15 year old kid Carrying the remains of what he what has left of his family his little brother put in the bag Now, what do you expect this guy to turn out to be if there is no Christian witness? Okay, if there is no hope if there is no way forward is easy recruit for forward, is easy recruit for any militant group. So this idea, this cycle of violence, it has to break.

And we have seen when they start talking with Hamas, back in November, there was a great deal of hostages that were released. So we know that continuing the current course is not going to really solve anything, is going to escal solve anything is going to escalate problems and extensifies it more further. I'm not an expert in this stuff, but it certainly seems like that would be the case. And it has been the case. I mean, I saw it from day one from early October.

I'm like this reaction, which is over the top is not, it's just going to make things work. Like that's the, how do you, how do you think this is going to be better? Well, I do want to say this because this is a critique that I've heard about specifically Palestinian Christians is that you're quick to condemn what you would call a genocide. You're quick to share all the stories about horrible things happen to Palestinians, but you're very slow to condemn October 7th, or at least it's just kind of a quick acknowledgement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't agree with it, but let's

just focus on all the horrible things that Jews are doing to Palestinians. What do you, what do you say to that? I mean, are you slow to condemn October 7th? Are you? No, I, I, I condemned October 7th from my first statement, you know, back in October, I said, well, Hamas did, could not be justified. But there's always going to be a bar because you have to give context. You have to really give context. If you, you know, blockade, if you conduct a blockade, you control the water, you look, you control the electricity, you control everything.

What do you expect from someone who's being locked up for a long time? Eventually, this is going to burst at some point. So I can never justify the killing of people at the music festival. I think this is heinous. This is atrocious and we can never condone that. But in the meantime, the status quo is unsustainable. Until when are you going to really confine Palestinians in little pockets all over the West Bank and blockade them, blockade the sea, blockade the air, control the water lines for 76 years? There's got to be a peaceful resolution to that.

And I believe peacemakers, Christians, Christians in the United States, Christians all around the world, the global church can play a significant role in promoting peace rather than just being consumed with end time prophecy and end time theology that, you know, in my opinion has been weaponized against Christians in the Middle East. Let's, let's to round out our, I would also add to like, I, I, um, I didn't understand

that until I did more study on the situation that led up to the blockade of Gaza, the situation within the blockade, even attempts at peaceful nonviolent resistance, like the great march of return when, when, which was largely peaceful, nonviolent. And yet the, I mean, you had Israeli soldiers picking off, you can, you know, blowing off, there's a whole thing about blowing off kneecaps and like even people with handicaps and nurses. I mean, it was horrible. So it's like you, you add all that up. And I know some people listening are still going to say, if you try to give context, that means you're justifying it. I'm just going to say that is just logical. That's just not valid logic. Like you can give

context to something that doesn't mean you're justifying it. You can condemn the response, but also say, we can learn from the broader situation, not to justify the response, but to understand why somebody might react this way. Rather than just saying it all started on October 7th, you have a bunch of anti-Semitic violent, you know, people in Hamas that just rose up and, and out of their anti-Semitism tried to kill as many Jews as they like that. That that's just not And then the round out our conversation. What would you love to see from the church? I know it's a big question. Let's just say the Western church, the American church, to take steps toward helping foster the peace that you're describing. I would love for them to really pay attention to Palestinian Christian voices, amplify their voices, invite them to your churches, hear from them, hear their experiences. Just like as much as we sympathize

and we show compassion to people of Israel, we need to show the same compassion to both people. This is what we are called to do. The Jesus that we follow, Preston, in the Middle East and everywhere, would extend one hand of compassion to console the grieving families in Israel on October 7th. And I believe that same Jesus is now consoling and praying for, helping, supporting, sympathizing with the families of the hostages who still are captive with Hamas.

But in the same way, Jesus would extend his other hand and he would put his arm all around those precious children, precious people, especially the Bride of Christ, his church in Gaza still exists, who have lost 3% of their members as a result of the Israeli airstrikes and Israeli assault or war. I would love for Christians to live and talk more like Christians. We need to follow Christ's example of how he tore down that barrier, how he crossed cultural and ethnic and religious divides and showed compassion and delivered compassion. He loved all people because they were all created in the image of God, regardless of race, ethnicity, or even political inclination.

This is what we need. And we need to stand up and speak about these truths. I'm not apologetic to saying that Jesus would deliver a cold cup of water to people in Gaza. They deserve it, they should. And I'm not apologetic to say God also loves the Israelis and he wants them to live in peace and security. God wants everyone to enjoy

his abundant grace and abundant life and this is what we are here to promote. But to get really caught up in the political debate, that would hinder our gospel witness. To also build your to also build your foreign policy understanding based on scripture. That's also dangerous and problematic. When you say, I'm willing to give Israel a blank check and all the support because God at some speculative time in the future is going to reign over Israel, that theology has to be re-examined. Dispensationalism has to be re-examined. The idea that we need to build a third temple,

and Jesus is going to come back and rule on the throne of David from that temple, for me, this is a demotion to Christ, you know. So we have to question our own hearts and compassion, but also I have to question and challenge our understanding of the theological implication of what we preach and how is that affecting people on the ground, especially the church on the ground who has been on the receiving end of so many injustices, so many of wrongdoings, and we need to champion the gospel over everything we're preaching. That's so good. Faris, thank you so much for your voice and the conversation. Where can

people find your work in your ministry? Levantministries.org. We have Levantministries.org, that's the name of our ministry. We have so many great initiatives. We're doing a lot of work in the West Bank and in Gaza. We're supporting many orphans in Gaza who have miraculously made it out of Gaza, and now they are in Bethlehem. There's also ways to support Christian families in the West Bank. We're providing food coupons, $100 per family. All this information is found on our website. We also have some ways to send some support and food trucks and aids into Gaza. Please, if you feel called to really deliver a cold cup of water to people in Gaza, we are here

to help and we are here to facilitate all this. 100% of all donations go to that. And we just want to show the world, our broken and divided world, the love and hope of Jesus that transcends all divides. Man, that's awesome. I will put the link in the show notes. I do highly encourage people to check it out. So thank you so much for the work you're doing Ferris. Really appreciate it.

Thank you, Preston. This show is part of the Converge Podcast Network.