Theology in the Raw - Bonus Q&A: How to Handle Conversations w/ Those Hateful Towards LGBTQ

Episode Date: November 20, 2024

Bonus Q&A: How to Handle Conversations w/ Those Hateful Towards LGBTQ, Is Not Sinning Even Possible?, Historicity of the Old Testament, and Personal Areas of Discipleship -- If you've enjoyed this content, please subscribe to my channel! Support Theology in the Raw through Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theologyintheraw Or you can support me directly through Venmo: @Preston-Sprinkle-1 Visit my personal website: https://www.prestonsprinkle.com For questions about faith, sexuality & gender: https://www.centerforfaith.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is my most embarrassing moment? How should we handle conversations with Christians who are so hateful toward LGBTQ people? Did Jesus ever explicitly say He was God? What are the passages that are most troublesome for the doctrine of the Trinity? What is my view of the historicity of the Old Testament? And many, many more questions that we are going to tackle on this bonus Q&A episode. If you want to join the Theologian Raw community and gain access to be able to ask questions on these now bi-monthly Q&A episodes, you can go to patreon.com forward slash theologianraw and check out all the different perks you can get for being a Patreon member of Theologian Raw All right, let's get started.

Feeling a little bit weathered right now. My son and I just picked up a new hobby, dirt biking up in the mountains of Idaho. This has been so much fun. Oh my word. We picked up some old used dirt bikes a little bit ago and I've been riding a street bike for gosh, 11 years now, but I've never actually been in a dirt bike. And so we recently picked it up. He's 15 years old and I'm not going to send them off by himself on a dirt bike, but yeah, it's been so much fun anyway. We just spent a few hours up in the mountains of Idaho dirt biking. It was absolutely stunningly

gorgeous. And why am I telling you this? I'm telling you this because I'm just feeling really weathered right now. The girls are out of town, my wife and our one daughter that's still at home, they're out of town. And I'm like, man, I, I should probably go record this Q and a podcast. Um, even though I'm feeling pretty wiped out from dirt biking all day. Anyway, let's jump in. Amy wants to know how I handle conversations with believers who are hateful toward LGBT people, especially when they say it's what you're doing. And I'm like, I'm not going to do that.

I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. wants to know how I handle conversations with believers who are hateful toward LGBT people, especially when they say it's what God would have. Have you been in those conversations where people are just downright mean toward gay, lesbian, trans, and bisexual people, and they think that this being mean, being harsh, being aggressive is like, this is an expression of faithfulness towards God. I've had some of those conversations and that can be really, really frustrating, especially when you see how that kind of posture just turns people away from wanting to follow Jesus. People think they're standing up for the truth and yet all they're

doing is pushing people away from the truth when they have a really toxic posture. So here's, I'm going to say the same thing that I'm going to say in every instance when we are trying to communicate effectively with people who are believing things vastly different than us or embodying a posture that is very different than the kind of posture we think that they should embody. Okay. So this goes to people that have very different views of politics, of other political issues, immigration, climate change, whatever economics, and people that have different views of how to actually treat a fellow human created in God's image.

So first of all, I do want to at least suggest that people's perspectives like this arise from something deeper in the heart. This is somebody as harsh towards LGBTQ people. That's what's coming out of their mouth. But there's something in their heart that is kind of the root of their verbal expression towards LGBTQ people. Maybe it's fear. A lot of times it's fear. I think the LGBTQ community is like, you know, trying to take over our country or they're after our kids or, you know, there could be a lot of fear of this movement. Okay. Maybe it's

just anger and maybe there's a story there why this person is so angry toward LGBTQ people. Maybe there's some pain. Maybe, okay, here's, and this is a thing. I mean, it could be repressed same sex desires. I'm not suggesting this is always a case or even most of the case, but there, it could be a case where they actually struggle with same sex desires themselves. And there's, they're just surrounded with so much shame that the one way they can kind of cope with that is being angry toward LGBTQ people. This is a thing. Maybe their social environment, their entire lives has reinforced this passion and anger. So that's all they've known. Maybe there's, you know, fear of another kind that has to do with, you know, liberal anti-God people. And they think all LGBTQ people are,

you know, in this sort of, had this sort of mentality. So I think all LGBTQ people are, you know, in this sort of, had this sort of mentality. So, I mean, there's, and there could be many other things that could lead to the kind of response that they are giving. Here's what I want to suggest. And this is the really hard thing to do. I think, again, in all cases where there's serious disagreement with someone's beliefs or posture, I think we do in all cases where there's serious disagreement with someone's beliefs or posture, I think we do need to demonstrate genuine curiosity, showing interest in their perspective. If somebody is just very angry towards LGBTQ people, rather than just confronting them or yelling at them or responding with the same kind of posture that they are emulating that you

don't like. Don't do that. Show some kind of concern. Show some kind of interest. I'm genuinely curious. Why are you so angry toward LGBTQ people? I want to get to the heart that's driving this sort of response because it could be various different, it could be many different things. And if you misdiagnosed the heart, then you could be responding in a way that's just not gonna be effective with this person. So there could be many different things going on in their heart that is leading to this kind

of really toxic response. And so I would want to get to the bottom of it and figure out where is this coming from. And then this is even harder to do. Is there anything that is boiling in their heart that you can resonate with? There's probably many examples I can give here, but I'll leave the analogies aside for a second. Like, is there anything that's stoking that anger, that fear? They're like, okay, I don't agree with this response. I don't agree with many things going on in this

person's heart, but there is this thing or that thing that's like, like, okay, I don't agree with this response. I don't agree with many things going on in this person's heart, but there is this thing or that thing that's like, okay, okay, I can see where this would make you angry or this would make you kind of scared. If you can find something in their heart that you can build a bridge to, heart to heart, that could lay some kind of foundation to where you can build on that to have a more fruitful conversation. In my book, Does the Bible Support Same-Sex Marriage, the whole first chapter is devoted to how to have a fruitful conversation with people that you disagree significantly with. So, I would just commend you to go, if you have the book, go check it out.

And yeah, try to emulate, put into practice some of those principles I laid out there. Next question. What is my most embarrassing moment? Oh, I've had several. I'm trying to think of which one stands out the most. I'm sure there's been a few like farting in public or something, what I didn't mean to. And it was not a good time or place to do that. I think it was like a, I think it was like a, I think it was like a, I think it was like a, I think it was like a, I think it was like

a, I think it was like a, I think it was like a, I think it was like a, I think it was like a, I think it was like a, I think it was like a, I think it was like a, I think it was like a, I think it was like a, I think it was like a, set up where they had a small, like a bistro table with a glass of wine and some bread. And it was like, I think it was like one of those, like dip the bread in the wine thing and do your communion. But it was like one glass of wine or something. And I remember I bumped the table. I mean, to my defense, it wasn't a very stable table.

Okay. It was like kind of crowded area. And they got this like kind of floppy, flimsysy top heavy piece or table with a glass of wine on it. And I bumped the table and just totally spilt the glass. And oh my gosh, my Catholic listeners are probably just horrified. Like I don't know what kind of, I don't know how many Hail Mary's I'd have to do with that if I was in a Catholic church and just like literally spilt the blood of Jesus. Luckily I was in a Catholic church and just like literally spilt the blood of Jesus. Luckily, I was in a low church, non-denominational church, and they're like, hey, we'll get some more wine. It wasn't a big deal. But it was still super embarrassing.

Another time, I was preaching at a pretty traditional church in Scotland. This is during my PhD days in Scotland. So I'm young. I'm like in my mid late 20s, late 20s. And I was preaching and they said before the service, they're like, and we always have a, they told me, you know, after you preach, we always have a traditional like, communion, liturgy that we go through. We'd like for you to lead it. And here I am, dude, fresh out of seminary. I don't think I've ever led a communion service. I don't even know what that means. I was like, I just, I studied the Bible. I preach from time to time. I don't know how to lead a whole church in a communion service or, you know, you know, as part of the service. They said, no, no, no. They reassured me. They're like, no, no, no. It's still, we will walk. We basically just, you just stay up there and we'll, shall

we? We'll, we'll, we'll walk you through everything. Well, it's not going to be a big deal. Well, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know., no, no. It's still, we, we will walk. We basically just, you just stay up there and we'll show you. We'll, we'll, we'll walk you through everything. Well, it's not going to be a big deal. Well, that, that, um, it wasn't so simple. Um, after I got into preaching, all of a sudden these elders come up and it's really, a really formal church, high back wooden chairs. And I'm sitting there and I've got all these like elders to my right, elders to my left. And I'm staring at a church that has two, like a balcony and a, and a, and a floor, sir, you know, people sitting on the floor or, you know, downstairs, upstairs.

And it's again, a very formal, everything's very like, you know, just like joke around. It's one of those churches that are very formal and like kind of scripted a little bit. And I'm sitting there staring, you know, like in sitting next to all these elders on stage, looking at, you know, the ground floor upstairs and everybody's just kind of quiet. And I'm like, when's this thing going to start? And then all of a sudden they're kind of looking at me like, okay, we can, you can, you can start.

I'm like, I'm like, what? I'm like, I don't, I don't know what to do. So the guy on my left says, okay, okay, here's this sheet. He pulls out the sheet from like underneath the podium and says, her, okay, here's this sheet. He pulls out the sheet from like underneath the podium and says, all right, just walk through this. And I'm like already kind of sweating and like just like, you know, getting tunnel vision. Like, I don't know, what do you mean?

Like I got this sheet, when I'm supposed to read the sheet and do this. I'm like, you know, also I forget how to read. And then also like I'm deaf on my left ear. So this guy is like whispering to my left ear what to do. And I'm having to turn my head all the way around. And the audience is just kind of like, what's this guy doing? So anyway, I fumbled through it. I got through it, but it was just that rush of sweat that comes on your body when you are just incredibly embarrassed. But I got through it. I was never invited back to

preach at that church, but I survived it. Okay, next question. Did Jesus ever explicitly say He was God? I believe in a deity of Jesus, but reading the Gospels feels confusing in the way He refers to the Father as God. So maybe it'd be helpful to know that pretty much all, well, most if not all of the clearest statements about Jesus' divinity come in the Gospel of John. In fact, some scholars, some evangelical scholars would say that the synoptic Gospels, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, if that's all we had, then the gospels, Matthew, Mark and Luke, the synoptics, don't

actually come out clearly to say that Jesus is God. I hope this isn't too troubling for some of you hearing this for the first time. Now, other people argue the opposite. They're like, no, no, it's, it's there. You know, they point to various things in the synoptics to try to prove his deity. But every scholar would agree that even if you could find some divine statements in the synoptics, the gospel of John is really where most of the clearest ones come from. So some people would say like with, with regard to the synoptics that, you know, well, didn't he say he was the Christ, the Messiah? And the answer is, well, of course he did. Or at least other people did. And in some places he did as Christ, the Messiah? And the answer is, well, of course he did, or at least other

people did, and in some places he did as well. But Messiah doesn't mean God. It doesn't have to mean God. It just means that this is an anointed one who is in the Davidic line of royalty. Like, you know, 2 Samuel 7, God made some promises to David that one of your sons will sit on your throne forever. And you have these really grand oeos, messianic promises that there will be an anointed King in the line of David who will reign on the throne forever. So when Jesus says He's a Messiah, that's always claiming is that He is in this Davidic line. So, but that doesn't, again, that just means he's a son of David. Doesn't necessarily mean he's, you know, um, divine. Some people assume that even the title

son of God is a clear reference to divinity, but it actually, it actually isn't. It could be, it could be to be a son of God. That could be a reference to divinity, but it doesn't have to be. We have... In ancient Near East, it was a royal title that a lot of kings would claim for themselves, even if they weren't necessarily claiming to be God. And even, you know, going back to 2 Samuel 7, you have even here that God tells David that he will be his son. That David will inherit some kind of sonship. Doesn't mean David was divine. And you know, one of his sons, one of David's sons will also be God's son. And it is emphasizing again, a more royal position, not necessarily divinity.

Other people will say, well, didn't Jesus do tons of miracles? That must show that he's God. Well, think about that. I mean, lots of non-divine people do miracles. Moses did miracles, Elijah did a ton of miracles, Paul did miracles, other people in acts did miracles. Simply doing a miracle doesn't mean you are divine. It just means you have the divine spirit within you who's enabling you to do these miracles. Could God do miracles? Sure, but simply if a human figure does miracles, that doesn't mean that human figure is also God. Okay. In the Gospel of John, you do have in several passages a correlation between Jesus' identity and in some cases, even His actions. They correlate

with the Father's identity and actions. John, let's see, there's one, two, I've got four here in the Gospel of John. There's a few more, but these are some of the big ones. In John 5, 18, John says, for this reason they tried all the more to kill him, not only because he was breaking the Sabbath, but because he was calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. So here, at least, the first century Jews, when they heard Jesus called God Father, they took that to be some kind of divine statement. At least Jesus making himself equal with God. And I do think that that last phrase... Hey, friends, I hope you enjoyed this portion of

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