Theology in the Raw - Digging Deep into Scripture: Tara-Leigh Cobble

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

Join us for the Exiles in Babylon conference! April 30-May 2, 2026. Details hereTara-Leigh Cobble is a bestselling author and the creator/host of The Bible Recap podcast, which reached #1 in Apple’s Overall Charts and has 500 million downloads to date. She founded D-Group International, a network of nearly 500 weekly Bible study groups that meet in homes, churches, and online, and she hosts a daily radio show called The God Shot. And she recently released the 365 Day Chronological Study Bible, which I highly recommend. Buy it here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

God is the secret sauce. For years, sermons and books and devotionals and podcasts have been about me. They've been about me, and we try the me stuff. And the me stuff helps in measure, but the me stuff, we sort of come to the end of ourselves. There's an expiration date on it. Deep down, we know it doesn't work. Hey, friends, welcome back to another episode of Theology Raw. My guest today is Tara Lee Kabul, who is a.

best-selling author and the creator and host of the Bible Recap podcast, which is beyond popular. It reached number one in Apple's overall charts and has half a billion downloads to date. Tara Lee founded D-Groop International Network of nearly 500 weekly Bible study groups that meet in homes, churches, and online, and she hosts a daily show, a daily radio show called The Godshot. And she recently released the 65-day chronological study Bible, which I highly recommend. I love the resources that Terri Lee puts out. They are incredible. And she is, as you will see, not only passionate about Jesus and the gospel, but a absolute student of the word.

And I think you'll enjoy this conversation. So please welcome back to the show, the one or only, Terri Lee Cobble. Good morning, Terri Lee Cobble. How are you doing this morning? Preston, I'm thrilled to be here with you guys and all your watchers and listeners. It's going to be a good time. Oh, it's been two or three years since you chatted last. And I, you, you just keep producing amazing content.

I want to share a story about my kids with your stuff. But before I do, for the audience, for the maybe four people that don't know who you are, what you do, give us a snapshot. Who is Terri Lee Cobble? And what is the ministry you're involved in? Terrily Cobble is just a person who loves to help people read, understand, and love the Bible. and the God who wrote it. Like, that's what I do.

Whether it's being a guest on podcast like this or hosting my own podcast, The Bible Recap, writing books, speaking at events, whatever we do, it's all to help people of all ages read, understand, and love the Bible. So I love that me and my team, we get to do that together.

It's my favorite thing in the world is to read through the Bible with people. So awesome. So awesome. When you're on a few years ago, you shared kind of how you just, came to love and want to know the Bible. And I was, I don't know if I told you this.

I was just so impressed with your passion for in-depth, like, scholarship. Like the level of research that you have done is, I mean, it is. It's, it's, it's the kind of research that scholars do. You read, you read, you read when you bump into a difficult passage, which is many passages. you sort through all the different views, you weigh them fairly, and you don't write anything until you feel like you've got a decent handle on the passage.

And what I love most about it is even when you've done all the research and you're still like, this is still a difficult passage, you don't come down so heavy on a particular interpretation. As a scholar, that's what really annoys me

when somebody is so confident about a passage where I'm like, hey, look, I'm not saying there's not an accurate interpretation, I'm not saying we kind of understand the Bible, but sometimes we just need to be kind of open-handed a little bit like, hey, here's what I think the passage means, but it could mean this, and we need to really wrestle with this and pray about it. And you just, you do that so, so well. Thank you so much. That is wisdom I've gleaned through the years from pastors that I've sat under their teaching and watch them do it really well. And I had one pastor who says all the time,

I don't want to scream where scripture whispers, and I don't want to whisper where scripture screams. And so that sort of became the lens to which we did the Bible recap was if there is biblical support for both of these views that I feel fall within Orthodox Christianity. And for me, it's not a fundamental area. It's not foundational. Then I'm good with saying, here's what some people say. Here's what other people say. Here are seven links in the show notes for you to do some research, get you started, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Tell us what is the Bible recap? What is a book and what is the podcast? So the Bible Recap podcast and book are both designed to be a read through the Bible plan. So reading through the Bible 365 days is what it is set up as. Some people do that in a year. For some people it takes them two years, I have a friend who just did it in three months. But it is a read through the Bible plan. We walk through chronologically.

And the idea is that a lot of people who read through scripture get stumped up. They quit. They fall off because they don't. understand what they're reading they don't understand it they don't understand the greater storyline or the context or the societal implications they're looking for a takeaway how does this ancient text even connect to me who are these people do i need to know these people and they kind of get lost in the weeds yeah so what i do is every day i do a flyover of that day's text and say here's what we need to know about today's text some reminders of historical and biblical

context, helping them reconcile some things that maybe seemed contradictory or juxtaposed. I try to help them reconcile those things. And sometimes those things can't be done in that day's text. You have to have a broader view of the text. So as someone who's read the Bible many times now, I'm able to go, you can't see it here, but if we wait until later, here's what we're going to see. Here's how we're going to see this pan out. So I just try to be a guide to people who are trying to read through scripture.

So it's about three chapters of reading a day, and then you either come do the book, which is two pages of reading a day, or the podcast or the YouTube, which is about eight minutes a day. And so ultimately, the whole process of reading and recapping takes about 20 minutes. And it's essentially built by a layman for people of all ages. We have the Bible recap for kids. So we have people who are from five years old to 85 years old who have read through the Bible with me and the Bible recap, just doing this daily reading.

reading and daily guide that's bite-sized pieces every day. I've got four kids, but there's two in particular, maybe three in particular, that have used the Bible Recap. I think both the book and the podcast. And it has helped them immensely, immensely. Because, yeah, I mean, some, you say people kind of lose steam after reading the Bible in the year, or they're not sure, they get kind of lost in the story. It usually happens somewhere between, like, Leviticus 10 and Numbers, 15.

or something where it's like Genesis is awesome and Exodus was great and then we got bogged down a little bit in the tabernacle building and but I'm going to keep pushing through and then all of a sudden you get through Leviticus and if you can slug through Leviticus you get through numbers and you're like oh my word like I miss Genesis you know and that's usually where people lose steam but you know but Leviticus the message of Leviticus as tedious as the verse by verse reading of it can be the message about God's holiness and grace is just unbelievable and numbers is essential for the storyline of scripture. So this is what I love about what you do is that when people get kind of bogged down on those tedious portions and feel guilty, this is God's word. I'm supposed to love it. And then you go tell your friends like, dude, I was a Leviticus who was awesome. They're like, no, it wasn't. Like, come on, don't know.

But when you give the overview, you're like, oh, that's how the sacrificial system fits in. That's what the Day of Atonement means. And this is what it says about God. Anyway, I told you I've lied. Like, I don't get paid to say this. I've seen the material. It's amazing. And I, everybody should get it.

So, um, uh, do, the, with the podcast, do you, do you do it fresh every year? We don't. Uh, so a couple, couple reasons why. First, very practical reason is that I don't have time. It took me 100, right? It took me 100 hours a week. for 15 months to build the first build. And so to do that every year, I just don't,

and that's just what it took me. Like, that's not including my audio editor. And that's just my research and writing and recording. And so practically, I don't have time. And then, theologically, the story doesn't change. And so if I'm recapping the story of the Bible, recapping that differently, it can be kind of challenging because I might start to say things that if I'm just trying to find

something new to say, that might create some tension. So what we've done this year, we've added something called TBR Deepdive, the Bible Recap Deep Dive, which is a podcast that, you know, I'm doing a flyover of three-ish chapters every day. And so we're hitting things that would really live to go deeper on like, hey, what is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Can we talk about that? for a second. And some of these themes that people want to go deeper on and they have questions about. And so we have a new podcast where we take about five questions a week and spend about seven or eight minutes diving deeper on those. And that is sort of bringing another layer of depth to the text for people who've done the Bible Recap with us for seven years now. We launched

January 1st, 2019. And we have people who are like, hey, I'm in this for life. Like I'm doing this with you every year. So whatever new content you create, I'm in for it. I'm here for the basic plan. I'm here for the deeper plan. And we just keep creating new tools to help people access more information that the basic plan arrains the same. Okay. That's cool. And you're, I mean, you're one of the top all around, not just Christian, but all around podcasts. And in, uh, was it, I want to say January 2024. I saw your, your podcast was number one on Apple. Not number one Christian. That would be off the chart.

I'm talking like Terrily Cobble, the D group, Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, ABC News or whatever. I don't know the list, but I'm sure those are up there. But that's insane. Did you ever, well, first of all, how awesome is it that that many people are interested in understanding the Bible? Not like feel good sermons, nothing wrong with that? Not like, you know, I'm not going to name anybody because it's going to sound negative, but like some amazing preacher, you know, and the sermon that's, you know, again, all good things, but just understanding what the Bible says and means, that's mind-blowing.

How encouraging. There's so much, when we look around at the world today, so much that can discourage us and cause us to despair. Yes. And when things like that happen, whether it's my podcast or another Bible teaching, podcast or whatever, anytime I see that Bible sales are spiking. I don't care if it's the Bible recap Bible specifically. People are buying Bibles. When people are buying Bible studies, when people are going back to churches. I don't care if it's my church specifically. People are going to church. People are seeking the Lord. They want the things that only God can give and they are going to the

places where God can be found and where they can see and draw near to him more easily. And that is so just joy inducing for me. It's the best thing in the world that people want to draw near to God and that they have access ways to do that. Yeah. How do you process just you personally like becoming? And I don't know how do I word this? Because I know you're going to resist any kind of like, oh, I'm somebody because you're absolutely resist the kind of celebrityism or whatever, but like, how do you process when you see like your podcast reaching number one in the world? I mean, that's insane. You know, I think I'll, I think there are three ways that I process it. And not all of them are healthier wise. But the first is I kind of don't. I kind

of, I have so much work to do that it is very hard for me to stop and celebrate or acknowledge milestones. So for instance, we just found out a couple of days ago that the Bible Recap book hit $1 million in sales. Oh my gosh. And so I was in a meeting. I was writing a Bible study with my writing team. We were working on the book of Hebrews. And my publishing team called me and there's like 20 people on this Zoom, this FaceTime. They're calling to like drop the news to announce it to me. And I was just kind of like, great. That's amazing. Thank you. All right. Got to get back to writing is Bible study. And it was, it's just because I'm, I love celebrating things, but there's, when there's so much work to do, I just kind of move through. So that's the unhealthy way.

Maybe some of the healthy ways are, um, last night I sat and I watched the video that my publishing team sent me. They'd sent me this like seven minute video of everybody at the works of the publishing team talking about what this work has been like for the past several years that we've done together for the, for all the Bible recap books. And I just sat with that before the Lord, and I just wept. I just wept. But it was 11 o'clock at night, and I was, you know, sitting in bed, watching my laptop video. Yeah.

And I did that sort of privately with the Lord. And then the other way that I do it is with my people, the people that have helped make this happen. I think that, celebrating privately with the Lord, like thanking him privately, and then celebrating with my team in moments where, like, we've carved out to focus on that, that's a healthy space for me because I know I didn't build this alone. I know this has never been the TLC show. This is not a one woman show. This is a lot of people and wisdom and time that have poured into this. So I call my parents and I thank them because they raised me up in a godly home and taught me the word of God. I call the pastor who challenged me to read the Bible and

I say, thank you so much for your love for the word of God. And I raise up and point to the people that poured into this because this is always about the people of God communally. And so that was a really long answer to a really short question. No, it's actually, it's timely for me because I've been processing that as I sat in my bed last night and I was like, why didn't I cry when the phone call came in when they called me to let me know? I was like, I got work to do. See you guys. See you guys later. And then I watched the video and I'm like sobbing. So this is something I can talk to my mentor about like, why do I process things this way?

I don't know. I totally resonate with being in the middle of work and saying, I don't know, I got to, I'm working on something right now. Like I would totally do that. And then as an introvert, I think I might want to crawl into a hole and die. Or like I just, the thought of that many, you know, like, I would like, I would get excited. Like, wow, that would be like, oh, my gosh. I'd be like, I don't know if I like this. Yeah.

And there are aspects of it, you know, there are aspects of it that are really good in some ways that hold me, people like us, when we are visibly making advances for the kingdom. When our names and our images are attached to something, there are pros to that and there are cons to that. One of the pros is there's a higher level of accountability. There are more eyes on you. And so there is a very serious weight in walking out the things that we know and believe because people are watching and more people are watching. And then the other aspect of it is you really have to eschew the things of idolatry that people place on you.

And you have to find a way to do that. And that can be a snare for some people. Right. And so there's just, there's a lot that comes with this that, you know, when I was recording this podcast for the first time using a $99 pair of headphones and microphone that I ordered from Amazon and I stuffed them into the Amazon box with a sheepskin rug lining it. And that was my studio that I recorded the Bible Recap podcast that became the number one podcast in the world. I recorded it with a $99 headset microphone in an Amazon box studio. I need to remember that

that's, that's what this is. This is just a girl who loves the Bible who wants other people to love the Bible too. Yeah. I love that so much. I mean, I know people, I'll hear people that want to start a podcast or a YouTube channel, whatever, and they want to go out and like, all right, I need to rent a studio and get a $5,000 camera and all this stuff. They want to like get all this stuff before they are producing content. I'm like, flip that around. Like, produce good content on i'm still in it you can't really see it but i'm in an unfinished basement with a pillowcase over one light here i've got a curtain over like what is that it's like a sheet or something over another one i've got books everywhere on the ground i mean you're seeing like the

clean corner i've got pipe water pipes above me a globalist light over here i mean it's like ac ducts over here i mean it's the whole thing is like a trade wreck and i was you know i've been able upgrade, you know, the better camera and sound and lighting sort of. But like, yeah, just like produce, do something, produce good content. Don't worry about the infrastructure. Let that follow producing good content, engaging content that's challenging people. And then don't go out and buy $10,000 with this stuff before you've even recorded an episode. That's just, that's ridiculous. Oh, yeah. Across the world, countless Christians face persecution just for practicing their faith.

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Those kinds of open, honest conversations shouldn't just happen on a podcast. They can and should happen around our dinner tables and our small groups and with our kids. That's why our trusted partner, World Relief, created a valuable conversation starting tool. It's called Let's Talk About It. at 45 conversations on home, belonging, and loving your neighbor. These conversation cards give you practical ways to start meaningful conversations

about displacement, immigration, and what it really looks like to love our neighbor. If you've ever wanted to bring dialogue like this into your home or church, this is an absolute great way to start. Download your free set of conversation cards for World Relief today at worldrelief.org forward slash theology to raw. That's worldrelief.org forward slash theology in the raw. So I'm curious, how do you, you said you're super busy. What is it, what does a week in a life of TLC look like for you? You know, it's different all the time.

But for instance, this week, some of the things on my plate are, my team and I are writing a Bible study on every book of the Bible. So that will be 40 studies who are all finished. We write them at a pace of four per year. year. So every three months, we're writing a new Bible study. And it is not a small Bible study Preston. They're like 250 pages. It's five days of content a week. It's, they're massive books. And so we just finished Hebrews. So I will begin editing that study now. It takes us about a week to write them. We carve out seven or eight days every three months. We do our research beforehand, then we come together and we just plow through it. So one of the days this week was us finishing

that study. I'll begin editing it now. I'm doing a lot of interviews like this because we're about to hit the January 1st launch date for the new read through the Bible in a year. So I'm telling a lot of people to jump in with us on January 1st. You can read, understand, and love God's Word. We are promoting the new Bible Recap for Kids podcast, which launches January 1st. So I'm doing some interviews about that. And I'm traveling to do some speaking engagements. Those are, I'm not this week because this week is Thanksgiving, but I travel. I'm doing a speaking engagement. It's a lot of content creation.

It's a lot of content editing. And it is occasionally getting to talk to people like you, which is my favorite because unlike you, I'm an extrovert. I love to be around people and I don't get to do it very much. You know, writing and editing and recording are things that primarily happen with me just by myself. And so it's fun to get to talk to you. How often do you speak and what kind of venues do you speak at? And do you enjoy that part of your ministry? Yeah, it's so fun to get to meet people that I read the Bible with

because primarily that's who's in the audience now. It's people who do the Bible recap. And so I get to meet, you know, and it's so cool. I never, ever imagined kids would do the Bible recap. And I will never forget when the first kid came up to me at a merch table, like two years in and um his mom was like say it say it you know like he was like he's hiding behind his mom and he finally pulled him around and she's like say it to her and he goes hey bible readers which is how i open every podcast i open every podcast by saying hey bible readers and so this little

five-year-old oh my gosh he like showing that he's listening and i love that like i don't get that kind of joy sitting editing a document you know um so i love speaking engagements and the kinds that i do are often i will do like women's conferences um we just did uh a tour the bible recap live tour and so we took our our tour with our team to i think we hit nine different cities and it's like a two and a half hour event so we did a game show we did a i talked about psalm 23 We did a question and answer time period. Then we did like a VIP meeting, greet afterward where I gave out bang energy drink and bluebell ice cream.

We made it a party. It was a fun, fun time. That's awesome. Those are the kinds of things I do. I love to meet the people. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I do too. I mean, I'm an introvert in the sense that I could be by myself for weeks on end.

And as long as I've got a stack of books, I wouldn't, I'd be. I'd be totally fine. But I do also. And when I say that to people like, oh, you're totally introvert then. But I could function as an extrovert. And I love, I love, like big groups would stress me out. But like small meaningful conversations I love two, three, four people talking about, it has to be like meaningful.

You start chit chatting about dumb stuff. I'm going to get exhausted after five minutes. I'm like, I don't, like I don't need to talk. If we're not talking about anything meaningful, I don't need to, like, just be having words come about my mouth and I don't need to listen to, like, you talk about the weather, your latest, you know, hunting trip. I don't mind listening to someone's hunting trip for a minute or so, but. Well, Preston, this is sad because I brought lots of illustrations for my latest hunting trip that I wanted to share with you. No, it's my friends know that my favorite size of group is six people seated at a round table having one conversation. That's my favorite. With food? With food? Sure, sure. Six or fewer, roundtable, one conversation.

because if there are six people and there's two conversations or there's three conversations and there are people that I love, I want to know what conversations they're having. Like I want I want in on it. So I want one conversation. So I host dinner parties sometimes with six people or less, one round table, one conversation. And I'll never forget when you and I met, it's funny to me, like this is exactly what happened. We were in a large group. Yeah.

And you were, everybody wanted to be around Preston. like it was Preston was seated at this picnic table he had to go outside because there were a lot of people seated at the tables inside he had to go outside and everybody just kept coming and surrounding Preston and wanting to talk to and I was like me too

and I just locked down at that table I was not leaving like coming and going and I was like I'm going to have a conversation with this man and it was stressing me I love it I love it's awesome but it's it's like yeah I would rather have of like, yeah.

Yeah, it was nice. We sat next together and then we started talking. I found out who you were. I didn't know. I was like, I think it was halfway in our conversation. Like, wait, you're D-group? I'm like, oh, my word. We would just talk about the Bible and just like random stuff.

And yeah. So that was several years ago. Oh my gosh. That was that? Where was that? I think it's a national. It was 2021. 2021.

January, 2021. Oh, it was in California, I think. Florida. Florida, that's right. Yeah, Florida. So when you said, so you're creating these in-depth Bible studies. Your material across the board is, I mean, it's concise, but it's not fluffy. It's in depth.

You're wrestling with deep stuff. That's something, you know, when you say two pages, don't think she's just like, here's five steps on how to like live better. There's part, there's an application, but it's like, we're going to. going to wrestle with the text and people are eating it up. What is, have you, have you noticed a change in, in, in culture? Because I'm seeing the same thing. I think younger people especially, but all people, they're wanting more depth. They're wanting more meaning. It's why the Bible project is, you know, everybody watches that. Like that's not, that's not fluffy stuff.

Like that, that is digging deep into theological themes. I mean, it's creative, it's accessible. It's, it's clear and compelling, but it's like, it's, it's deep stuff. What is that, is that, is that, what is that, like, have you seen a shift in, uh, our church culture going from more surfacey stuff to more thoughtfulness? I haven't. I'm so excited about it. Can I tell you what it is? Yes. God is the secret sauce. Like God. For years, sermons and books and devotionals and podcasts have been about me. They've been about me. And we try the me stuff. And the me stuff helps in measure. But the me stuff, we sort of come to the end of ourselves, you know? And the stuff that's focused on me, I find that, man, if I'm nailing it, feel really good about myself, feel a little,

maybe a little too good about myself. If I'm failing, I start to despair. And I guess I need to just try harder. Me stuff, there's an expiration date on it. Yes. Deep down we know it doesn't work. Right. It's a band-aid. The Bible recap is focused on God.

Every day we end with what we call the Godshot, our snapshot of God and his character. And that is the difference maker. People come and they behold the person of God and his character every day in the text, even if we're in Leviticus, even if we're reading about boils and sores or the measurement in the cubics of tabernacle, the cubit, like whatever it is, we're looking for the character of God. And every day, we end with that God shot. And every day at the end of the God shot, I say, he's where the joy is. He's where the joy is. We're looking at God. And that's the difference maker. And I'm starting to see it happen in churches. And I'm starting to see it happen

in conversations. And I'm starting to see pastors preach the gospel again. You know, know, the whole Bible is not the gospel. It includes the law. It includes it. Like, the gospel is a very specific message. And I hear law preached as gospel a lot. I hear people leaving with, here's your takeaway and your two points, your action steps. Here's how you're going to apply this. And then I never hear about the finished work of Jesus. Yeah. But I'm starting to hear it again. I'm starting to hear about the finished work of Jesus in churches again. Yeah. And it is giving me so much joy because Preston, I will become a Pharisee from the jump. I will just make it about me, try to earn it myself. And Galatians 5-4 tells me, you are severed from Christ, you who would be justified

by your works. The minute I try to make my works make me acceptable before God, I'm off track. That's so good. And so focusing on the person and the work of Christ, it's the difference Is that so Terley Cable as a person you would, in your natural state, would you tend towards law, legalism, working your way to earn God's favor? Is that where your flesh would naturally go? I'm a gold star student. Listen, let me tell you. And I can also tell you how that went sideways for me, you know, because I spent all of my life doing all the, not cussing, not watching R-raid movies, no sex before marriage, don't drink, like all the, I did it all. And I thought, okay, well, this is where God gives me what I want, right? Like I've done all the things that he wants

me to do. I'm reading the Bible. Like, I'm in full-time ministry. Like, why, where's my husband? You know? Didn't work out that way. And when I began to understand that this relationship is not transactional that he fully redeemed me through no effort of my own, despite efforts of my own, in fact, it became a whole new world. The first time I read the Bible, I read it through the lens of looking for myself. And I ended up reading the Bible, believing the whole thing was true. And I didn't like God. Like at the end of it, I finished and I was like, I was like, I've read it all. Finally. I believe it's all true. And I don't like him. And my pastor said, okay, let's read it again. And how about this time you stop looking for yourself and start looking for God?

And I was halfway through the Old Testament when I fell in love. Just fell in love with God. And it was the same book I just read. And I had a totally different response because I was reading it through a different lens. First lens was about me. That made me angry with God. Second lens was about God. That made me fall in love with God and brought me so much joy. Yeah. That's so cool. That's the game changer. Yeah. And I don't want to hear, I don't want to have anybody hear that and be like, it's not a game terribly. Like I know, but you know what I mean. By a game, like it changes everything. Yeah. Yeah. I had a similar experience. I want to say around 2011, I'll save you the background. It wasn't anything. It was just

super, you know, coming off of, you know, I finished by PhD. So I've been to like 12 years of school for the Bible, you know, bachelor's, master's, PhD, could hardly find a job, finally landed a job, you know, working extra classes to try to pay off school debt, blah, blah, blah. And I was just kind of getting burnt out of being a professional Christian and I don't know it was you know a sermon here a passage there God speaking to me and just just just it's like just like by I don't want to say like lenses fell off whatever but like I just had this this renewed maybe not even a fresh mind-blowing appreciation of God's grace where he pursues me he doesn't love myself.

sin, but he loves me even when I sin, that it is finished. That's what I got the tattoo on my arm to tell us I. It is finished. Like that God's finished work has, it's finished, it's finished, you know. And I don't know, reading passages in the Gospels where Jesus encounters sinners and he leads with grace, even people that deserve judgment, you know, they're doing the wrong things. Jesus leads with grace.

He leads with a desire for relationship. of the one that really, yeah, the one passage that really reoriented my thinking was his Zechius and Jesus in Luke 19, where Zacchaeus, you know, tax collector, we all know they were bad, but I remember doing some historical research on just how bad tax collectors were. They were, they were really bad, not just for committing political and religious treason, but I mean, they just lived really immoral lives, you know. and Jesus encounters him and he only speaks two times in the story

first of all he says hurry come down I must stay at your house which as you know in a first century Middle Eastern context to go to someone's house that that's a several hour affair having a few meals like that's you go to somebody's house

and you're basically telling the world like I want to be in relationship with this person and then it's after encountering Jesus that he ends up saying I'm going to sell my stuff and get back what I stole and whatever And then Jesus speaks for the second time, you know, salvation has come to this house. But Jesus, you know, and when I preach on it, I tell people, I say, what did Jesus say to get him to repent?

Nothing. He didn't say anything. He just entered his house and was in a relationship with him. The only words he said prior to his repentance was, I must stay at your house. Of all these people here, you know, it's like Jesus is on a heat seeking mission to find the worst sin in this crowd. Where's the worst one? I want the worst one. And he finds him up in the tree.

Oh, you're the one. I must stay at your house. And it's, I don't, you know, sometimes Greek words mean exactly what they say in English, you know. But there's the Greek word, D-E-I-Day, it's, you can translate like, it is necessary. And it's often used to describe, like, something that's like written into the divine script. Like, it is necessary, Jesus says that I preach the gospel. It is necessary that I do this. Like, this is why I came.

And he says it is necessary or I must stay at your house. Like I can do no other than to enter the home of the worst sinner in the crowd because that's who I am. And he enters his home, pushes obedience and repentance out the other side simply because he desired to be in relationship with him. He didn't go down to laundry list of all the things he did wrong. He could have done that. He could have just said, here's a thousand things you're doing wrong. And he would have been true. But instead, he enters his house.

And I remember just meditating on that passage and just like, my word. God pursues me even when I'm not pursuing him. And that it sounds so simple now to think like, how did it take me like, how do I get through 12 years of like Bible school? Like, and years teaching it. Then like, oh my gosh, God's pursuit of me is way more robust than my pursuit of him. But yeah, anyway, that's that's a long response to say. When when you talk about grace, I get it. That's a, it is a game changer. I like the phrase. Yeah, truly. Who are some of your mentors, scholars, teachers, preachers, people who you lean on for insight, or just books, writers, like, who are some of the people you're really drawing on when you do your research? My research never feels complete until I check out the Faith Life Study Bible.

Okay. No matter how many, like I'm using tons of different. commentaries. I'm using tons of different Bible, study Bibles. I'll use ESV, and I'll use a David Gozick commentary, and I will research just a lot

of pastors and theologians, and even personally interview some that I know, who maybe hold differing beliefs than I do, but it never feels finished until I use the Faith Life Study Bible. And a pastor of mine years ago turned me on to that.

I don't like the app. I'm sorry. Anybody's watching this and you're the person who designed or runs the app. Thank you for saying that. I'm a hard time using the app too, but I do. But I feel like the browser, the, you know, web version is great. And it just somehow, it has happened so many times that I would find something in there that wasn't in any other commentary, that wasn't in any other sermon. And it was just the thing that buttoned everything up beautifully.

And so I have become very grateful for that resource. And it's free. You have to create an account for anybody watching or listening, Bible.faithlife.com. And I just think it's a phenomenal resource. I, right now, I have really been enjoying listening to, a lot of times what I'll do is I'll find a pastor and just listen to everything he's ever said.

Okay. And so I have made my way through catalogs of various pastors and theologians through the years. And the pastor that I'm listening to right now is a man named Benji Horning, H-O-R-N-I-N-G. He is at Light Church in Encinitas. There's two campuses. There's a San Diego downtown campus, and there's an Encinitas campus. And he typically preaches at the Encinitas campus.

It's just, I don't know. I know how I found him, by the grace of God. But I was in Encinitas for a wedding. and the guys in our group were staying at an Airbnb that had this little white chapel behind it. And they were like, hey, tomorrow, you guys want to hit up church at that chapel? We were at a Saturday night wedding. And they were like, I was like, sure. So the girls came over from our Airbnb over to the guys, Airbnb, and we just walked into this white chapel, 15 minutes late. I don't know what the name of the church is. I don't know what the denomination

of the church is. I'm not expecting much. It's, I think, like, folding chairs and 100 of them in this little room. The only space was on the third row, and I sat on the third row, 15 minutes late, wrapping up worship, pastor comes out on stage. And I just almost wept the whole sermon. I had just, my team and I had just finished writing our Bible study on the Gospel of John. So I'd been deep in John for three months. And he preached on a passage from the Gospel of John.

And it was like, I had never read the book before. I was like, what is all this new stuff? I was audibly saying, wow and what out loud. And I was like, wow, what? And I'm like, why is everyone else not wowing and whatting? I don't understand. You guys are either really spoiled or not paying attention. I don't know what's going on with your congregation.

And I just, I went up to him like, like shaking and sobbing after the service. And I was just like, what's your name? Like, can you, like, do you have a podcast? And we became friends. I've become friends with him and his wife and their family. And I have taken vacations since then to go. No way. I'm like, I'm taking my vacation around when you're preaching.

So let me know when you're going to be there. I'm going to come hearing you. And I just learn so much from him. Wow. And I, I'm just so, he's, he is just this quiet, unassuming soft. He kind of has the, um, the, the, the, the state. presence, for lack of a better term, of a Tim Keller. It's just this soft, humble, scholarly, gentle, compassionate approach. And I am loving, learning from him.

That's so good. I'm going to be there in Incinnitus in a few days, actually. Well, I'll be in Carl's Bad, which is. Well, if you'll be there on us Sunday, check him out. I know. I'm not, I arrived late Sunday night, unfortunately. I'm doing an audio reading for my, my book in Carl's Bad for a few days. Oh, fun. I will check him out, Benji. Wait, would you describe how you react to the server? I don't think I've had that experience in years.

I had not either. So afterward, my friends and I, we went out for pizza. And one of my female, she's in my community group, she was like, Terley, how long has it been since you've responded to teaching like that? And I literally just started sobbing. I just started sobbing. it, I can think of maybe three, three times in my life that my soul, I'm, I don't, the Sacred Pathways book, I don't know if you're familiar with this. The guy who wrote five love language is also

wrote a book called Sacred Pathways. And it's not a personality test, but it's like just different ways you can connect with God. And I am the intellectual. So you teach me about God. I fall in love with God. Yes. If I learn new stuff, my love explodes. And, I just learned so it showed me what it did for me what that one little sermon did for me was it was like God was whispering you've just scratched the surface you've just scratched the surface like you just spent three months studying the gospel of John there's so much more richness for you in my word and it just made me so eager to read the Bible over and over and over and over again and as a person who has read it now 17 18 19 I don't know how many times I just want to keep reading it. Wow. Can you talk to me more about that love language of loving, like, the intellectual side? Because I've wrestled with this for years.

Tell me more. Well, I resonated 100% with what you said. Like I, and I felt, well, I felt guilty because most, I don't know, most churches I've been a part of, they lean much more on the emotional side which I is awesome love it, love seeing people get fired up about God emotionally and I would say

there were seasons earlier in my life when that became more naturally but now I just I don't that's not how I naturally connect with God but when something is intellectually stimulating

it actually ignites and furthers my desire for God. And yet everybody else around me tells me like, oh, but if it's too, if you're stimulated intellectually, like that's, that's, that's the scholar stuff. But you need a personal wisdom of God. I'm like, I have what, you know, but it just looks different. It doesn't, I don't go through these wild emotional swings. I don't, I don't, yeah.

So I, and for a while I just felt guilty. It's like, well, maybe I just don't love God, like all these other people. people who are just jumping around and, you know, whatever, I just want to go and read a theology book. Like, even devotional books are hard for me. I'm like, I would rather read something that doesn't need to be long, but it needs to be very, very intellectually stimulating, robust. Not because I want to do something different than pursue God. It's like, that's how I, that's how I like become more in love with God is through that. So I've always, and I've kind of like, again, for the years, felt guilty.

And then after being, you know, enamored with God's grace, I'm like, you know what, I'm not going to feel guilty because I don't look like everybody else, you know, in my Christian walk. But I've never seen it positively in the, and I never knew that was a thing. Yeah. An actual kind of whatever you want to call it, personality or whatever, that connect with God in this way, that maybe somebody else doesn't connect with God in that way as much. Yeah. I'm grateful that my friend, Jen Wilkin, talks about.

Loving God with all your heart and your soul and your mind and your strength. And loving God with your mind is really underrated. We live in a culture that really wants you to love God with your heart. And that's true and important too. But they skip out on the mind part. And she says, the heart cannot love what the mind does not know. Right? Go Jen.

Go Jen. Yeah. That is a, and that is a, and I've heard one of my pastors used an illustrator. of like, if I talk about how my wife is so gorgeous, she has this beautiful long blonde hair and she's, you know, this tiny petite woman. And he's like, that's not true. Those sound like pretty words, but she is tall brunette. So you have to know the truth before you could actually love the truth. You have to know the truth. And so I think I can see how your experience of being in spaces where it's more emotive can feel like it's diminishing the way that you relate to

God. And that book, Sacred Pathways, I think it's a really encouraging book for people because there are, it's got different, like there are people who, the liturgists, people who really connect with God through liturgy, who connect with God through service, people who connect with God through nature. There are all these different ways that we most easily connect with God. And that's not to say we should issue the other types of connecting with God, that those aren't valid or that we should just neglect it, that like, I should never go out of nature if I just want to read a book. But it's just pointing out, God has made tons of ways, like, to connect with, like, God makes a way to get to your heart. And I recently had a conversation that,

We talked about how every generation kind of has a different question that they ask that points them to God. And we have seen, I think it is what is true, what is good, and what is beautiful are the three primary questions that people are asking to point them to God. And we have come from a generation that asks what is beautiful. And that's really like, what is beautiful? We want it to feel good and we want it to be very, like, emotive. I think we are about to enter into a generation. And by generation, I don't mean, I mean sort of like a church generation, not like a Gen Alpha, Gen X, Gen Z.

Like a season, new season. Right. Yeah. I think we're about to enter into a what is true generation. Because specifically AI, I think it's going to, I had a conversation with Bobby Greenwald recently. Bobby Greenwald, the creator of the U-Version Bible app. Yeah.

And he said, AI provides us with this incredible opportunity because nothing will be trustworthy. Everything's going to be fake. Everything's going to be like, is this video real? Is that really a dog jumping on a trampoline? I don't know. And so what people are going to do is they're going to be forced for their own sanity to look to the things that have proven true for so long. Yeah. Yeah.

And so it is going to push people toward the way. excuse me. It's going to push people toward the word of God in a way that they haven't felt pushed toward the word of God in a long time. Yeah, yeah.

And they will see the beauty of God and they will see the goodness of God, but it will be because they are seeking the truth in a world that feels full of lies. Yeah. I think you're absolutely spot on.

I've been thinking about this a lot. I think we are, I mean, all the way from the Internet age, which quickly morphed into the, you know, social media age, which now is morphing into the AI age. I mean, think about all three of those are pretty cataclysmic, all crammed into a couple

decade. That's insane. I mean, the printing press was big enough. It took, you know, a few hundred years for us to kind of get used to. Here we got three major, I mean, you can say social media is a subset of the internet, but it really, I mean, the internet gave us access to information, but social media changed the nature of relationships, which as social beings is cataclysmic. It's cataclysmic when we have a younger generation, especially, but not just younger people. They get picked on too much, I think. But a lot of people, their primary way of relationships isn't disembodied. That's a that's a cataclysmic shift in humanity.

And then now AI is, yeah, I think it's going to be, it's not just artificial. It's almost like an artificial way of being human to live in a world. where you can't distinguish between what is human, what is not, what is real, what is not. And I do think the silver lining, as you said, just to echo what you said, is it's going to, it's going to be this itch that the more we scratch it, it just keeps itching. Like, this isn't the real thing, especially when you even talk about, like, sexuality and relationships and people are falling in love with their AI person. And I don't know if you've heard stories.

It's pretty freaky. And it's just, I think there's going to be a high. an exhaustion of that artificial world and a deep hunger for what is true, what is real, what is beautiful, what is human. And I think, yeah, I think the church has a golden opportunity to really step back and think clearly about what is our place in this technological advancement that's running at breakneck speed. You know, let's slow down, not just jump on every bandwagon, let's slow down and say,

how can we embody God's beautiful, compelling, life-giving vision for what it is to be human in this weird world we're living in? All right, a couple more minutes. How about some personal get-to-know Terry Lee Cobble questions? What's your favorite food? Are you a foodie, first of all? And if so, favorite food. My favorite food, I would say a medium rare filet.

Oh, nice. A medium rare filet with Chimmy Churry. Some sweet potato fries on the side. And then for dessert, a corner brownie tough with vanilla bluebell ice cream. Why corner? Wait, is that a, is that a, no, just the actual corner edge. Yeah. Because you like the little more crust on the edge or something?

Okay. All right. You got a day off. Oh, no, no, no. Hey, I'm all four. I started cooking, I started, no, not just, I started perfecting. steaks. I like a T-bone or a ribeye, and I have this whole method where I slow, smoke it on

225 for a while, get the out, we have an outdoor kitchen, so outdoor grill, piping hot, and then I sear it, put a little butter, wrap it and foil. It's so good. Anyway. Have you done into a suvade yet? Have you done any suvied cooking? I don't know what that is. It's like a, for lack of a, I can't think of a fancy way to say this, but it's like a heat

stick that you put in a bowl of water and it eats the water to a certain temperature, you put your food in a sealed bag and it basically cooks the food inside so it can't overcook it because it's just staying at that temperature. Oh, wow. And so I tried cooking my steaks that way for a while so you just like cook it and then you sear it. Oh, interesting. So you still get that burn kind of like on the outside of the little. Yeah. Oh, wow. Somebody did tell me about that. seemed weird. It's like, I don't, yeah. It's spelled, if you want to look it up, it's S-O-U-S-V-I-E.

All right, all right. Okay, you have a day, you have a day off, and in our imaginary world, you can, you don't need to travel to get to the place, but do you go to the beach or to the mountains? Or the city. I go to the city. I go to the city. Okay. If it's not the city between beach or mountains, where do you go?

I like the mountains. Okay, okay. I mean, I like the beach, too. but I like the mountains more. No sand. If you could live in a place where... I'm coming up with these off the top of my head, by the way. I love it.

It's great. If you could live in a... If you had to live in a climate that was the same temperature all year around, what would it be? 75 degrees during the day with 50% humidity and 60 to 58 at night. Oh, so not cold...

You don't want to feel... No, just a very strong. short, small range. That's San Diego right there. That's San Diego, I know. Yeah, yeah. So the humidity. So you would have feel your air a little bit with 50% humidity.

40 to 50% humidity is optimal for health, I hear. Oh. You know? It's good for your skin. It's not so humid that it ruins my hair. It's not 70. But it's humid enough that like, you know, my skin and my everything, it's my voice and everything. My eyes don't get dry.

Okay. Yeah. I like it. if you um if someone said you can travel to anywhere in the world um where would you go man we've talked about this uh about our love for israel oh yeah man i love Jerusalem oh i love Tel Aviv yeah i love the galilee it's and i go like twice a year yeah i go all i was i was there like three or four weeks ago um that's a really cool place to instantly teleport. But also, I will say

Switzerland is just the prom queen of Europe. Switzerland is just a stunning, stunning country. They have colors that don't exist yet. It's beautiful. I would love to go to Switzerland. Like, it's... Oh, so, wait, have you been? You've been there, though?

I've been. Yeah, I've been. And I love it. Where would you go? If you could tell you. I was supposed to go to Switzerland during COVID, and we canceled our trip. It was during the wintertime. We had this whole like ski trip planned and didn't go. So we've been trying to... I've been to many European countries, but many European countries

never been to Switzerland, but that's what I keep hearing. I got to get to Switzerland. If you go and you like adrenaline, there's a thing called Bumblebee hang gliding is the company. This is not sponsored. I don't have a partnership with Bumblebee hang gliding. But Bumblebee. When I went to Interlocking,

when I went to interlocking, so I travel a lot by myself. and I was going there and wanted to go hang gliding and the week I think before I went some guy was hang gliding in interlock and wasn't really locked in and almost fell to his death and I was like I want to go with the company that took that guy because there's not going to be any safer company in the world I hangliding with right now than that company

that's actually very logical even though nobody would think that way And so I went with them and they were great. So Bumblebee. Don't make sure you're locked in. Oh, my gosh. Where would I go? I'm a island beach, reggae, wear flip-flops. Like, that's my...

You're going to Jamaica. No, no, a little too... I've never been to the Caribbean, actually. I love the South Pacific, so I've been to Tahiti a couple of times. Moa a couple of times. I would, there's an island off in a Tonga. That's it Tonga?

I think it's Tonga. Or on the other side of the world, the Maldives is, actually, probably the Maldives. I've always wanted to go to the Maldives. The pictures I see my fate, okay, my all-time favorite piece of Earth is when you have this like, you know, deep, see-through aqua-blue water with like a, with like a white sandbar to where it's like the water's like a couple inches above it and you can kind of walk out and in the Maldives from the pictures, Maldives are south of India, just tons of those like sandbars like everywhere where it's like all shallow and everything. I just, are those the places that like

the hotel rooms or the huts? Yes. Yes. Yes. So that's in Tahiti as well, especially Bora Bora is the kind of famous place for that, which is really expensive. Actually, Maldi is really expensive too. And it's far to get to, which is why I've been there. But yeah. the huts above the water where you just wake up and you like go downstairs and dive into the water right there yeah yeah that sounds nice but i don't think there's nearly enough concrete there for me you do some concrete i need like a 12 lane highway you can just vault me into the sky that's that's that's my vacation all right let's think of one last more um if you could well shoot no i can't do that because you're i was going to ask you like

if you could write one last book, what would it be? But yeah, if you could talk to one person that's alive today, alive today, somebody that you have not yet talked to, who would that be? Hour-long conversation. Conan O'Brien. What? I did not see that coming. What, what?

Okay, why Conan O'Brien? I love comedy. I love comedy. Comedy is to me what music is to most people. So a lot of people go to concerts. I go to comedy shows. And Conan O'Brien is just from my childhood, the comedian that most formed my sense of humor.

He has a lot of thoughts on faith. He has, he's very intelligent, you know, went to Harvard. And I just, I love, I think he's fascinating. and would love to talk to him about the Lord and would love to talk to him about comedy. I used to, I grew up in a pretty strict religious home. And I was the youngest of six. And so my parents were like older and they would go to bed early. And I would sneak out of my bedroom in middle school and go turn on the television and put the volume on three and put my ear to the speaker to hear Conan O'Brien's monologue.

That's what I would do every night. I used to watch him growing up too. I used to watch Letterman as a kid and then Conan O'Brien. My older brother loved Letterman. And so I grew up with a love for Letterman as well. But I was more the Conan generation. Do you only, and you don't need to share it on the air if you don't want, we get this out. I will ask your favorite comedian.

I rarely tell people publicly the comedians I listen to because not all of them are the cleanest and sometimes I have to fast forward, but they're social and prophetic brilliance. Truly. The ones that can like challenge and make people laugh from both sides of the political aisle. I mean, I will mention one name and like any, if I ever mention a band or movie or a comedian, I'm not recommending you go watch them. But the one person, well, there's several that do this well, but Bill Burr is a genius when it comes to keeping both sides on the, like he just, like, you don't know where he's at, and all of a sudden you're with them.

And then you're like, oh, my gosh, wait, what? And it's, it's, okay, even if whatever you like or not, it's brilliant. It's brilliant how he can just keep everybody laughing and get deep into political stuff. And just kind of offensive, but it's like you don't know. His stuff on abortion is unbelievable. I agree. I think comedians and comedians like Bill Burr, there are a few in my catalog,

my roster that I like to study. I study them, whether I agree with them or not or not. And some of them I'm like, this is a little raunchy or this is a little offensive or you're saying too many curse words for my taste. Right, right, right, yeah. And sometimes I go to the shows to study them.

I want to, this is my class. This is my schooling. and I'm taking notes on how they do it. And I'm like, sometimes I'm nervous that people are going to see me in the audience. I'm like, I'm in class right now. And it's a communication class, not a theology class, just to be clear. But I think there's a lot that we can learn from the way comedians, they disarm people. Yes, yes.

And they have really incisive insights. Yes. And I think it's, I think it's fascinating. Yeah. And so I enjoy it and I respect it. And they've mastered, I've learned through comedians that there's more power in concision. When you, even single statements, like if you're preaching and, you know, a good preacher often has a few kind of one-liners to kind of capture a point that's memorable. It clicks, which is way harder than people realize.

is to come up with a one-liner that's not cheesy, fluffy, it's thoughtful. And if it can be concise, there's so much more power in that. Like, cut out the fat. And all comedians do that. Every single word is intentional. And now when I listen to sermons, that might be, you know, maybe a good one. I'm like, gosh, you probably could have cut 50% of the words out. It didn't not lose anything.

And it would have been way more, way more powerful. and comedians are a master of that. I'm working on that myself. That is something I'm really working on, is being more concise and precise. Yeah, I'm not good at it. I tend to talk too much. Because my speaking style is just very natural.

I don't like to be performative, but when you do that, you tend to like kind of talk more than you aim to. Tara Lee Cobble, it's been a joy talking to you. And thanks so much for being a guest on Theology and Ra. Again, And the 335-day chronological study Bible came out last September.

And this is a combination, right, of both. It's a Bible with all of the notes for the Bible recap, all in one spot. So if you're looking to read the Bible in a year with some commentary to make it interesting and understandable, highly recommend people check it out. So thanks so much for being a guest. Really appreciate it. So fun to be back again. Thank you.