Theology in the Raw - From Addiction to "Come Jesus Come": Stephen McWhirter

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

Over twenty years ago, Stephen McWhirter was a meth addict and wounded preacher’s kid who had a radical encounter with Jesus. Today, he travels the world leading worship, sharing his testimony, and seeing many people come to Christ. His song “Come Jesus Come” has amassed over one hundred million views and streams across platforms. Today, Stephen is an artist and writer with Capitol Christian Music Group and Re:think Music. And is the author of the book Radically Restored: How Knowing Jesus Heals Our BrokennessSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You know, we hear the word repentance, and it's almost like taboo in the church. You know, repentance, and you immediately think, uh-oh, everybody's going to find out the terrible thing I did. I'm going to get in trouble. I'm going to be canceled. Everything's going to be ruined. But in the Bible, there's a blessing, like blessings connected to it. We only think of it as, uh-oh, I'm in trouble. But with the Lord, it's like, you're literally turning from death to life. You're literally turning from something that's hurting you to an invitation closer to Jesus, closer to God. Hey friends, welcome back to another episode of Theology. My guest today is Stephen McWhorter.

Over 20 years ago, Stephen was a meth addict and a wounded preacher's kid who had a radical encounter with Jesus. You'll hear all about this on the podcast. Really amazing story. Today, Stephen travels to the world, leading worship, sharing his testimony and seeing many people come to Christ. His most well-known song is Come, Jesus Come, which has amassed over 100 million views. and streams across various platforms.

Today, Stephen is an artist and writer with Capital Christian Music Group and Rethink Music and is the author of his first book Radically Restored How Knowing Jesus Heels Our Brokenness where he tells a story which is really, as you'll hear.

So it's a profound story, especially his, man, how he's come to grips with forgiveness, which is something we talked about toward the end of this podcast. So please welcome to the show for the first time, the one and only, Stephen McWhorter. Stephen, thanks for being a guest on Theology Naraw.

I've been looking forward to this conversation. For people who don't know who you are, they must not have an Instagram account because you have absolutely blown up over the years on Instagram. It's kind of crazy. I don't know what's going on. Oh, my gosh. I mean, you're most well-known, I guess.

I mean, I'm going to assume, Come Jesus Come is the song that has been the most extreme downloaded. But you have a story that is pretty mind-blowing. Take us back as far as you want to go. Son of a preacher's kid. What was that world like for you? Right in. Yeah, man.

No, I love it. I traveled. My dad was an evangelist and we would go from church camp to church camp. But I'd see this guy get up preach about Jesus. People would get saved, by the way, because God is good. And, but behind closed doors, I would watch my dad physically abuse my mom. So at a very young age, I decided, man, if God's real, he is not good. And I don't want anything to do with this Jesus guy.

And so my earthly father, my heavenly father became the villains in my story. And I began down this path of heavy rebellion, you know, at 11 years old, I was smoking, drinking, marijuana, that kind of stuff. By the time I was 15, it was. You know, cocaine pills. I'm selling drugs. By the time I was 17, I was a full out crystal meth addict. I was using every day for many years to come. Wow. And I was the guy who hated Christians, hated Jesus, hated all of it. If you'd have mentioned his name around me, chances are I would have cuss you out or try to knock you out. I always say try because I say, you know, I was like, I weighed like 100 pounds because I was a meth addict. So if I threw my whole body,

yeah, you might have got a paper cut, you know. So, but people, people, your hate, your, your hatred of Christianity, would you say that was largely or exclusively due to your father's representation of, well, the hypocrisy of those, the, the hypocrisy I witnessed as a kid growing up. And I think subconsciously, yeah, I attached it to that. And, you know, you can't under, under, um, emphasize. the importance or the impact of your parents on you, your family, and especially a father, a father figure. And when you, all you know of who Jesus is and Christianity is this person that is clearly quite flawed,

then that develops in you this deep resentment. And in my case, anger, you know what I mean? Just flat out anger. It was traumatic, and if you read the book, you'll see how traumatic it really was because that kind of stuff that doesn't go away quickly. Even though you suppress it, I think it comes out in this, for me, what I like to say is it was like all of this, this hatred towards Christianity and this addiction and just destructive behavior, just trying to burn everything down around me. really was like, I didn't know it then, but as I look back, I can see how it was maybe me just being like showing my dad the middle finger, you know, like this is because of you.

Even though that I did it. Those are my decisions, right? You can't lay all of that on a parent. Not to say that it didn't play a part, but we are, you know, we make our own decisions. We want to blame other people. but at the end of the day, I chose this path that was destructive, right? And yeah, so I would say it was mostly just that, you know, towards them. And even today, you have a lot of people that go, you know, what I've seen in people

tells me out, like a pastor that did something wrong or a loved one or somebody that said was like their connection to Christianity or to Jesus, ends up being somebody that really did something despicable or just terrible. And so now, you know, and I always say to people, you hear people that, you know, you find out some mega pastor or somebody fell, they found out they did something terrible. And you, you see these interviews of people saying things like, well, you know, I lost my faith because of that. And I always say, well, we must not have done a very good job of, like, getting you to know Jesus. Because if you, just like if you're your faith and your relationship with him is literally him, then whatever comes, the foundation's secure.

Does it make sense? Absolutely. It's one of the reasons why I think we need to be really careful with even our church structures where we, if it's oriented around putting the spotlight on an individual, usually it's a pastor preacher, maybe even a worship leader, but if the spotlight is so directly on them, man, that's a lot of, that's a ton of pressure and it could easily subconsciously redirect people's focus to that person, you know. I see fame for a lot of people as a weight you're not really meant to carry, like extreme fame. If you really, really, really love Jesus, that's, and you get that kind of fame, it's hard.

Like, it does a number on you, you know. So, yeah, it's tricky. I want to come back to that because. I mean, now you have a bit of that fame. I don't think of myself as famous, though. I don't. I mean, I live in Louisville, Kentucky. I eat cereal.

I watch us. What's your favorite cereal? You got a favorite cereal? Why do we have to do the, do you try, are you trying, are you trying? Coco rice Krispies, man. Coco Rice Krispies. Oh, man. I'm still a little kid, bro.

I'm not, not much. But yeah, yeah, again. I think God knew that he was dealing with me a little bit. You know, if I'd have, if the things that have happened with my life would have happened in my 20s, it would have been really bad. Okay. The Lord opened the floodgates for us in my 40s, and it was kind of like I was at this place where I have a friend of mine who would always say to me, the Lord won't let you go into your destiny until your character's ready. If you really want what the Lord wants for your life, let's say you really want what he wants for your life. and you keep hitting these brick walls,

chances are there's probably something with your character that he's still working on because he loves you too much to allow you to go to that place. You're going to make yourself miserable, everyone around you miserable. Some people get there early, but for whatever reason,

mine didn't tumble to my 40s, and it felt like, I'm not saying I'm perfect, I'm just saying I felt kind of like, okay, cool, this is great, but the only thing that really matter, and I'm not just saying this because it's the good Christian answer. But at the end of this thing called life, right, it's super fast, super duper quick.

You know, it's like, the only thing that matters is like, do I love Jesus for real? Like when nobody's watching, do I really mean this thing? And do I love people without an agenda? Like, for real? Like, do I actually, am I just trying to get people to follow me on social media? Am I trying to just get people to join a mailing list? What am I doing? What am I doing? You know? And if I can be honest about those two things, the Lord will take care of everything else.

Well, I'm going to say this in all transparency, authenticity. Like a lot of people that have a huge following on social media, I mean, you've got, I don't know, over 900,000 followers on Instagram or a million or something like that. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. It's only 700 and something. Seven hundred, okay. Okay, only seven. Okay. It's no big deal. I only drive a, yeah, yeah, I only drive a port. but it's not, you know, it's nothing too fancy. It's just kind of, I don't travel porch, by the way. Most people that I, that have a large following on social media, it, it, and I'm not thinking

of any name in particular, I'm just speaking more generally. And for most people, it seems like, yeah, you're working really hard to get that. And it's a little bit of an icky, like, I don't, I'm not judging motives, blah, blah, blah. No, I get it. When I look at your account, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, get a scent of that. I get you worshiping Jesus and inviting other people to worship Jesus. And I just get zero like self-promote vibes. I have a lot of people call me. I get a lot of people that ask me for advice on marketing and social media and stuff. I'm like, bro, I literally tell them

what I just told you is, you got to stop selling things. Yeah. You got to stop trying to, trying to make something happen. You just have to genuinely love Jesus and love people well. Yeah. With everything you put out and everything you do. Stop being like out now. Come by my new thing. Get my new stuff. Do my thing. It's like, if they like it, they will.

They'll fine. You don't have to worry about that. My publisher gets frustrated me sometimes because I might air on the other extreme. Oh, right. You know, they're like, hey, don't be afraid to post something about your book once in a while because we do need to sell some copies. I'm like, all right. Well, there's a great way to do it.

It's how do I love people well with my book? Not just try to get them to download it. Like, how do I go? What part of my book loves somebody really well and draws them closer to you, Jesus? I'll just share that because people will go, oh, man, this guy, I can trust him. And you don't, this can't come out of this like, well, I've tricked him, you know? It's going to be, like, genuine. Like, oh, man, this guy is sharing stuff that actually helps me and loves me well and leads me closer to Jesus.

I'm going to go check this thing out. Or I'm not. Because if you have to force them to go, like, cattle them into it, it's probably not. That's good. So going back to your teenager. Sorry, that was free advice. This is just a session for you and I right now. Free.

Go ahead. Free social media advice to Stephen. God, I know. So I'm always on the hunt for healthy snacks and protein bars that I could grab on the go. And this is why I'm so excited to tell you about Mosh Bar. These bars don't just fuel your body. They actually support your brain as well. They're made with ingredients linked to brain health like Ashwaganda, Lions Maine, collagen, and omega-3s. And they include a game-changing brain-boosting ingredient called cognizin that you won't find in any other bar.

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Uh-oh. So I've never touched the heavy stuff. But that, from what I know from a distance, that's it. I always say, I mean, I don't smoke marijuana or anything, obviously anymore. But I always said, like, next to all the other drugs, the one thing marijuana did was just make me super paranoid. So I don't know if that really. It's like, well, I'm not speeding. I'm doing like 30 under the speed limit, going, oh, God, okay.

You know? Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. So does that take a toll on your body? I mean, all that at a young age? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you experience, like, just a physical toll?

If you're cool, I'll take you through this real quick. So I hated Jesus, hated Christians. People were praying for me. Somebody came and gave me this book called The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. and Lee's a friend of my in house is pretty cool. But he actually wrote the forward for the book. Sorry. I always forget that.

He wrote the forward for the book. But somebody gave me this book. And I miraculously, even though I told you, I hated Jesus, hated Christians. So this is probably the most miraculous part of the story because I didn't cuss him out and cause a scene. I was just like, cool, thanks for the book. Get out of my house or something like that. You know, I take the book. Fast forward.

I'm in this bedroom. It's 3 o'clock in the morning. I literally have drugs on the side table next to me. Not a cigarette burning in the ashtray, right? Nobody's playing softly and quietly in the corner. It's like it's the most offensive, seemingly impossible place for somebody to come to Jesus, right? And but I knew he was in the room, right? Like I just knew he was in the room.

It wasn't like this, like, I didn't see anything. I just knew. Like, you know, you know someone in the room, you don't see them, and you turn around, and you're like, oh, my wife was in the air. And it was like, it was intense, though. And I just remember being like having this internal dialogue where I was like, God, I want to give you my life. I want to quit all this. I want to quit all this addiction, all this darkness, all this anger, all this depression. I have known for so long I want to, but there's literally no way I can do it.

Because at this point in my story, I had been in addiction for over 11 years. It was like an intense addiction. And I couldn't even remember what it was like to just be a little kid, you know, and be happy without taking something to make me feel happy. And so when I was like, God, I want to, but I cannot do it. He knew I meant it, right? Of course. He's God.

And I just remember this thought that I know is from him that could not be from me because my willpower was obviously trash, right? And it was this thought was, Stephen, you won't do it. I'll do it. And I knew it was him. At the time, I didn't know it, but it's Ephesians 2.8. You're saved by grace. This isn't something you can boast about, but a work of God. He does it. But there is something we can do, John 629, it says, the only work, this is Jesus. The only work the Father asks of you is to believe. And Paul repeats this sentiment throughout the epistles, by the way. And what it was, was I was, I was, in that moment I was like, I agreed.

Like, I believed it in a way where it was like, I believe I'm breathing air right now, like that kind of confidence in knowing that it was real and true. And I just remember being like, okay, falling my knees, giving my life to Jesus through, boogers coming out of my nose, ugly crying, right? I'd been around Christianity just enough to know kind of what to do. But also, I was just talking to him. So I was like, this is it. I'm doing this.

I literally quit everything overnight. Now, people hear that, and they say, really, like you did. Or they say, you can't say that because it doesn't work like that. And then I'll say what I say to them, say to you, is, what do you want me do, lie? I just told you this whole story about all these things, about the truth. And I don't need you to get my book. I don't need you to believe me. It doesn't matter.

I don't get commission for everybody that please my story. Right? I knew it was real. And I do not have that willpower. That was Jesus. And people go, wow, you quit meth. And I'm going to speak to this. But everybody says, why, you quit meth?

That's crazy. I'm like, no, no, no, no. I smoked two packs a day for 11 years. If you've ever been to an AA meeting, nobody's drinking, but everybody's smoking. Yeah. It's like, God is real. That was the hardest thing. But I'll say this. Yes, I quit everything overnight. It's totally true. I had a thousand more things that were screwed up with me to deal with for years to come.

Physically and emotionally, I dealt with some issues too, just like transitioning. You know what I mean? It was not like easy, but it was definitely supernatural. I can't explain it otherwise. So people will say to me as I travel a lot overseas and whatnot and speak. at addiction recovery ministries and events, I always say in the Gospels, if you hear my story, okay? If you hear my story, you might be discouraged. You might go, wow, that didn't happen like that for me, you know. In the Gospels, Jesus never healed anyone the same way twice. If you read the Gospels, every time he did it, it was different. And I'll say this, every story matters, right? If yours is six times and you mean it and you fall to the

the feet of Jesus, it's sincere and you're moving on. He is going to use your story to advance the kingdom and to draw people to him. That's all I know for sure, right, is that your story matters, even if it's different from mine. Yeah. But yeah, that's the truth. I think like a year later, I got hired by a very hard-up church because as a worship leader, because never underestimate just how bad a pastor needs a worship leader. You know, X Methodic will take you. great you sound pretty you know so that's that's it they slid me a list of songs i was allowed to play by the way and i've been in metal bands and i was like roe every night people beating each other up in front of me screaming and here i am with this you know church sliding me a list of songs i'm allowed

to play and the most popular one of the time was uh i can only imagine so yeah oh yeah every sunday i'm sure yeah yeah yeah were you doing music producing music playing in bands while you were addicted? Or was this kind of more repose? Yeah, I was in metal bands and stuff like that. Okay. Screaming my head off. What kind of like, what well-known metal bands would your band have been similar to that I might know? Well, well known by who's, you know, there was these bands. Metallica Pantera. Well, I did listen to that. Yeah, of course, but it wasn't that. It was more like really hardcore music. Like there's this band called Snapcase. I don't want people going out and listen to this stuff. I'm just saying, you know, it was all this. It's a

What do you want me to say? When we try to turn people onto this stuff? I don't know. I've got a diverse audience. No, I thought people are probably curious. But yeah, it was like that kind of snap case. This is a band called Refused. You'll probably hear their song a lot in shows.

It's just like, it's this guitar intro where you're like, oh, man, I've heard that before. But that kind of stuff. But it was a different world. I used to speak at a Christian music festival, but it was kind of a, non-mainstream Christian music kind of festival. So they had some like Screamo metal Christian bands. Grave Digger, I think is one of them. They had one where I think they would shoot like blood, fake blood and cannons on people or something.

I'm not sure if that happened to the conference. Yeah, it was wild, dude. I brought my kids to it. And they were like, there was all there was like the metal, like all these different tents. So they had like your indie tent, your country tent, your metal tent. And my kids would always walk by and they just hear this screaming. Oh, my God. Dad, is that where they're like worshiping Satan?

I'm like, no, no, no, they're believers. As far as I know. As far as we know. All right. But anyways, yeah, different time, different time. So when did you start producing Christian, or worship music? Was that shortly after your conversion? Yeah, I mean, shortly after my conversion, I mean, I was actually a worship leader for at a church,

for two churches for 12 years total. And then I just felt like this calling from the Lord to kind of start writing and producing and putting out music, original Christian music. And I've been doing that ever since. So that's been over 10 or 11 years now where I've just been, I've been doing music the whole time. But this was kind of more of a real shift towards, I'm going to focus on more of a broader, just real creative approach, which was crazy. of risky. You know, I got three kids and a wife, and it was like, what am I doing? And every part of that was the Lord. I mean, like, just, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't say everybody's supposed to do that. But he definitely has honored it in a way that does not make sense on paper at

all. And, yeah, it's been pretty wild. Where did the inspiration for Come Jesus Come, come from? Was there a moment, something that led you to write that song? Yeah. Yeah, it was back at the beginning of the pandemic, my wife and I, we were sitting at home at my piano and I had my Bible open and we were just worshipping Jesus and really trying to mean it, you know? And we were, we like to do that where we just open the Bible and we just pray, we read and we sing even what we're reading and just like not for anybody to hear, just, you know. And we got to the last chapter of the whole Bible, the last page of the whole Bible, and the last bit of red letter in the whole Bible. The last thing Jesus says, it's Revelation 22, verse 20. And is Jesus saying, behold, I am coming soon. And I was like, wow, that's, that's, I mean, I am good at grasping and singing about grace and the cross and all this other stuff.

I don't know that I've really, I think I've kind of pushed Jesus coming back. off to the side, right? Like this thing that I don't really think about, it's like, okay, whatever. But that, man, I mean, if you look in the New Testament, you will see that the cross is referenced 28 times, which is awesome. Thank you Jesus for the cross, right? The atonement for our sin, thank you, Jesus. But it references and mentions the return of Jesus in the Bible 318 times. That is a lot more. I'm not a deep theologian. I've been to seminary. I have the student loan debt to prove it. But I'll venture to say that it's probably important, right, if it's mentioned that many times.

And the last thing in the whole Bible is Jesus saying, I'm coming soon. And I think there's, I think there's the Jesus coming to earth as a, you know, as a child, Jesus dying on the cross. and then there's Jesus coming again. And there's the atonement, the resurrection, and then the return, right? And there's this thing. And that was the thing they looked forward to, right? You know, Paul said in what was it, Philippians, I think 320 or something like that, where he says, we're not citizens of this world, but we're citizens of heaven, we're Christ.

And we long for the day. It says we long for the day with eager, Anticipation when our Lord Jesus, when Jesus will return. Eager anticipation for that. I mean, they longed to see their friend again, right? Like, they knew him like that. And I don't guess I ever did long like that about it. But my wife and I were reading this and thinking through it and praying and just really pressing the Lord. We started seeing what is now the first verse of come Jesus come, which was just like us learning to pray and really long for it.

and never in a million years did we sit down and go, oh, this is going to be a song. Let's write a song that we think C.C. Wine and I'll say, you know what, let's write a song that's going to do really well. And Christian, this is going to get us a lot of followers, you know. It was like, we honestly, that thought never crossed our mind. It was just, we're singing this right now, so we hopefully will mean it. And to you, Jesus.

Fast forward, I took the, because I realized what was happening was, When you long for Jesus to return, like you and I, when we long for Jesus to turn, like really, in a healthy way, right? We begin to love people better here and now towards that day. We begin to build things that matter more here and now towards that day. Because it gives you this perspective, right, about life and about why you're here as you wait for him to return. It's not the I'm so heavenly minded. I'm no earthly good. Have you ever heard that before?

It's really, Colossians 3. set your mind above or Christ's either. You could only be so heavenly minded. You're more earthly good. Right. And I found that to be true. I find myself going, well, that doesn't really matter. This doesn't come with me there. You know, it seems like it does, but it doesn't. And so I just remember being like that. It was funny, I took the song to a label that I was with at the time, and I won't say who, but I took it to this label. And I was like, hey, I didn't see this one coming, but I think God's breathing on this, and I'm supposed to maybe do something with it. This was kind of just a prayer.

I brought it to some friends of mine to work on a little bit, and it kind of became something. And they dropped me from my deal like three days ago, like a week later or something. Anyways, and I still had the publishing for it, but whatever is fine. And I was like, okay, so I just put it out by myself. And little to behold, you know, like a year, two years later, like some reason on Instagram, but just went like, like, a version of me singing it. Oh, it didn't, it didn't go viral.

Oh, no, it took like two years. I was just like praying and singing it with the Lord. And then I put it out. Yeah, that's how you know it's God. It's not, right? It's not like, oh, I put it out and everybody, this is amazing. It was like, whatever.

And then the Lord's timing is his timing. And that taught me a lot about things. It's not all the, you know, if the industry says do this or do that, It's not, you don't know. You don't know because God's timing is not our timing. And you just be faithful to what he's called you to and let him do it when he wants. And so I just remember randomly, periodically I'd post something about it as I was praying

or thinking about it. I would post it to Instagram and just TikTok and stuff like that. And to one time out of nowhere randomly, it just got like 10 million views. And that was it. Did somebody like famous, like share it or something? It just took off. People started going, nobody was going, oh, this guy's a really great singer. Or, oh, somewhere along the way it clicked.

And people were going, Jesus, I want you to come more than I want whatever it is I have going on right now. Right? I want you more. And so that was the consensus across the comments, across the repost, across all of it. It was very, it felt very kingdom, right? And that was it. It wasn't you as the content of the song, the Holy Spirit. It's never.

I mean, that sounds trite to say, but it's never me. I've been singing forever. Like, and some people could care less, and that's fine. I, you know, I'm, again, if all this would happen in my 20s, this would be a different story. But in my 20s, I was playing places and people would come up and go, hey, could you be quiet? We're trying to watch the game. So it's like, I have no delusion of like me being so great or something. It's like, oh, yeah, God's doing what he wants when he wants.

And I'm just alone for the ride. And that's basically it. Do you find life to be more difficult than you like? Is something keeping you sad or sick, stressed out, or just plain stuck? But so far, nothing has given you a reason to believe things can be significantly better, especially if you struggle with anxiety, depression, grief, or ongoing relationship issues. What if you have more power over how you experience your life than you think? Well, it's possible with self-brain surgery.

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like band singers, people you look to again, secular or Christian that that you, I don't know, you draw from, whether it's their style, their ability, the lyrics. I don't know if it's like a singular person for me. I think I might just hear a song and go, man, that's a great. song like that's a I can sing that to Jesus and mean it you know like that's kind of that's the way my brain works you know growing up I was I went from the metal bands to touring um or sorry I went from the metal bands to playing in after I got saved for a short stint to help make extra money I started like a cover band and we did all Motown like stuff like Otis Redding and like Al Green and like Sam Cook and

So I did all that kind of like soulful stuff for a long period of time. And I don't know. I think I just started learning like different styles and different things that I loved. And it all came down to just good songs, you know. And then it's just started to find my voice. And, you know, the truth of the matter is, is that it doesn't matter how good you are at something. The question is, is like, can you, can you, finally get to the place where you realize, why did God give you this gift? Why did God give you this

thing? And at the end of the day, it's to give it back to him. And that doesn't mean that everybody has to be a pastor. That doesn't mean that everybody has to be a worship leader. I don't mean that. I'm just saying, like, for me personally, like, I know it's to minister before the Lord to worship him, to draw other people to him, right? Through just this gift that he's given me. It's that simple and that powerful and beautiful and humbling at the same time. So are you currently a worship leader or do you do pretty soon? No, I haven't been on staff at a church in a long, long time, over a decade. And I've just been full-time songwriter, musician, what you see.

That's all I do. Yeah. You travel a lot? I have, yes. I'm trying to travel a little less this year, but yes, fair amount. Yeah. Do you have a favorite venue or city you've been to? Absolutely 100%. It's the Brooklyn Taboranackle. I love those people. I love doing stuff there with them. I like Brooklyn. But homes. It's not Kentucky, but I do like it.

I was going to say, not too many Kentuckans. Is that how you say it, Kentucky? Kentucky. Kentucky. I don't know too many Kentucky is that are fans. Somebody here says Kentuckins. Trust me. They do. Somebody says Kentucky's. Kentucky's. I'm still trying to get Louisville. Louisville. That's good. You're good. You got it.

Yeah. No matter how many times I do it, though, I always get corrected slightly. Like, ah, it's almost there. I'm like, Louisville. No, I guess you got to live there. No, you're good. So you have any, what are you working on right now? Are you allowed to say?

I don't know if that's like. I have a book coming out. Of course. Yes, I have a book. I have the radically restored book coming out of February. Is that tell your story? I haven't read it yet. I haven't received a copy.

Yeah, yeah. No, that's... It tells your story. That is the whole deal. And I think the crux of it that's super important is forgiveness. Like there's restoration. Like it's, you know, obviously what God took me through. But that ultimately I ended up forgiving my dad.

Going to my dad. And that was... Look, when I got saved, I was just like so grateful. to be alive and to be like, you know, at that point, I was like, if I could just be sober, get a job and, like, be okay, that would be awesome. You know what I mean? Like, um, little did I know. I mean, let's just go back. Like, this book that I wrote, um, was the forward was written by Lee Strobel, okay? So let's go back. I'm in that room at 3 o'clock in the morning. I'm reading this book written by Lee. Now, this didn't happen, but imagine. Okay. The Lord's like,

hey Stephen, in 20 years or more, you're going to write your story, and the guy whose book you're reading is going to write the forward, and I'm going to use your story to draw more people to me. That's the wow of God. Like, that's the simple little stuff that we might miss. But God's like, I'm weaving things together, right? So I get saved. I'm like, this is great. I just want to be okay.

but then I remember just the Lord being like, I can just sense this like go, I've forgiven you, right? At my worst, God forgave me. And I could tell that he was asking me to come forgive my dad, which sounded unimaginable and impossible. Like this guy, I do not condone it, by the way, but I knew he was calling me forgive him. I remember going to my parents' house and it was the most awkward, terrible, terrifying. experience in my life because I walked into this room. My dad's sitting in his armchair and I'm just like, there's no birds on my shoulder and a beam of light shooting in. It was just weird. It was awkward. I just remember saying, Dad, I forgive you for the stuff that was, you know, my childhood and a lot of

all this kind of stuff. And he just looks at me like his whole world was cracking and he was just like a deer in headlights. He was like, okay, thank you. And I was like, okay, bye. And I just get in my car and I drive off. So awkward. Nobody would put that in the movie. But that's what I did. And though it seemed like this crazy, awkward moment, I knew God had done something beyond what I could see. Fast forward. My fiancé and I, my Shetara now, my wife, she's amazing. She was like, hey, I feel like the Lord is saying your dad should baptize us. By the way, at this point in my dad's story, he hadn't touched my mom in over 12 years or so, right, or more or whatever.

But to me, that didn't matter. I don't condone it. I don't know why my mom didn't leave him. That's in the book. You can look at that. But if you hear this, get safe. By the way, if you're somebody in a situation like that, you know, whatever. But she stayed with him.

I hated that, but fine. But at this point, my fiancé is like your dad, I think is supposed to baptize this. So I'm like, this is terrible. Fine. We go. He baptizes this. It's actually awesome, really powerful moment. Fast 40.

again, we're about to get married. And my wife's like, soon-to-be wife, hey, I think your dad should perform our wedding ceremony. At this point, I feel like the Lord and my wife are conspiring against me. So my dad performs our wedding ceremony. Now, my dad has been dead now for many years, like over 10, 11 years or so. Okay. And from cancer, bone cancer.

And we had a couple of moments where we kind of, where I was always like trying to address it, but I feel like it was just like this thing where he never fully dealt with it, which is unfortunate and sad. And because of that, I don't think he ever experienced the full forgiveness and redemption power of what God wanted to do, right? I think that that's something for all of us to remember, right? That there's something God wants to do with your life that's so beautiful that's on the other side of repentance, right? But that didn't happen. I was in the hospital room with my dad. You know when people are in hospice, you get to that point where they're in a coma.

Okay? This is very sad. It's a very difficult time for many people. But they're unresponsive, but they're still alive. They're just there barely holding on. And what the hospice people and the doctor will tell you was like, whisper and talk to them, tell them it's okay. They can go. We love them.

There's this thing in the human mind where you just need to be told it's okay to go. And subconsciously, most people. at that point, they do pass, like within hours after that. It's really wild. And so we'd been doing this with my dad, but he was still there. It was days. And I was the only one in the room with him for whatever reason. My mom had got up and walked out for the first time in, like, days, you know.

And I'm sitting there with him, and I'm watching struggle. And you know that passage, or Jesus says, Peter says, Jesus, hey, how many times should we forgive our enemies? Yeah. You know, seven times? And Jesus is like, no, seven times 77. Like seven is the number of completion, like perfection, whatever. And never, never stops. You just keep doing it.

You do it. You know. And I'm in this room, though I've forgiven him a couple of times, many times. I just leaned in as he struggled to breathe. And I just whispered to him into his ear crying, man. Dad, I love you. And I really do forgive you. And within moments after that, my dad took his last breath.

And I watched steam leave this planet, right? This, his body. And in that moment, God taught me something about the power of forgiveness, right? That there are some things on the other side of forgiveness for us that seems unimaginable that God wants to do. So, I mean, a large part of my story is, yes, the Lord restored me from addiction and all this crazy stuff that he's doing my life. It's absolutely amazing. You know, hundreds of thousands of people come to Christ through my life, through my story. But I would think forgiveness is the thing that I've probably,

is one of the most important things I've learned in my life. And it's one of the things that really is like fundamental to what it means to follow Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. Did you feel that, so you kind of had two moments of forgiveness towards your dad that first time. It was kind of awkward. in the final time. I don't even know if the first time is real, but yes, we did it. Okay, that was my question.

Did you feel like there was something different about that second time when he was taking his final breath? Yes, something it broke in the moment. And again, it's all that finality of life and this whole thing. I mean, one day, bro, Preston, you and I, we are going to blink and we are going to be in the presence of Jesus and we're going to look back on this life. And there's going to be a lot of stuff that we think's important now that is not important there.

Right? and I'm personally trying to live from that place now as best I can. Like even this moment with you, man, I don't, you know, people are the most important thing. Loving Jesus and people. It's the most important thing. I don't know what's going to come next, you know? So, yeah, I feel like it was this, it's this ongoing thing, right? So little by little.

And though I said it then and I meant it, I'll probably have to keep doing it at some points in my life with my dad and with maybe other people. I don't know. Seven times 77, you know, till Jesus returns. I'm curious, you said your dad hadn't touched your mom for several years. Do you feel like there was like a genuine repentance in his heart? or was it just, maybe I should stop doing this? Because he never really came to you,

or I don't know if he apologized to your mom. Or like, what, yeah, was there a genuine repentance or is it hard to tell? Sounds like somebody's going to have to read my book. Still waiting on the copy. That's stupid.

I'm getting you one right now. I don't have a copy. Is that making you feel better? No, no, that's a, the publicist will send me a copy. They should.

I don't send. I don't have one. I want. Everybody that shows me what I'm like, I want one of those. Can I have one of those? Yeah, no. Yes. So the question again, I'm sorry, the question again was.

Was your dad truly, from your perspective, truly repentive from how he treated your mom? And was there other, besides just using your mom, what were there other things he was doing that were like clearly contrary to the message he was preaching? I think he felt great shame and guilt. But I don't think he ever addressed it really. And I think he kind of hid from it, which is a maturity issue. It's also, you know, we all have these things in life where we have two choices. We choose to repent. You know, we hear the word repentance, and it's almost like taboo in the church, right?

You go repentance and you immediately think, uh-oh, everybody's going to find out the terrible thing I did. I'm going to get in trouble. I'm going to be canceled. Everything's going to be ruined. But in the Bible, every time repentance is mentioned, there's a blessing, like blessings connected to it. Like, you know, if my people, Deuteron, if my people who are called my people will turn from their wicked ways and turn to me, I will then hear their prayers and I will heal their land.

Right. Later in Acts, when Peter is talking to people, he says, repent. This is Acts 319, 20. Repent so that the time of refreshment will come from the Lord. We only think of it as, oh, I'm in trouble, but with the Lord, it's like, you're literally turning from death to life. You're literally turning from something that's hurting you to an invitation closer to Jesus, closer to God. And I think some people choose to accept that invitation and others choose to self-protect and keep hiding and hoping it goes away. But we know hiding has never

fixed anything. Everything will be laid bare, says the Lord. And we see this today, especially with a lot of pastors, mega pastors and people, like all these things that have been hidden for literally decades are now laid bare. And they didn't repent, per se, for many of them. I can't speak for all of them. I don't want to just lay a blanket thing out there, but many don't repent.

They just get caught. And I think it's important. Repentance is the real thing. I'm not saying on Facebook and tell everybody what you did, but go to people that love you. that you trust that you can go to and, you know, begin to find what it looks like to be fully alive in Jesus, get healing. Have you thought through, this is something I'm currently thinking through, like the relationship between forgiveness and I don't know if there's another term, maybe trust, reconciliation. There's a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation.

Because here's just like an analogy here. Like if I loan my car to somebody and they crashed it, then fix my car. Okay. Loan him again. You're an idiot. This happens five or six times. No. No.

That seventh time he crashes my car, I can say, you know what? And he's like, dude, I'm so sorry, blah, blah, blah. Peter, 70 times. I have to forgive him. But that doesn't mean I need to throw in my keys again, right? Like, does he need to do something? The book, this isn't the book, I don't mean to keep saying that, but this actually, I do address this. There's a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. Now, in the Bible sense,

we're reconciled to Jesus, right? Because now we've become, you know, we're covered by the blood of Jesus, right? But the forgiveness in the sense of what we're talking about is like a debt. Somebody owes you a legitimate debt. Like they've done something to you that's wrong. You have the ability to rip up that debt and forgive them. That does not. mean that you will be in relationship still. That does not always mean you're going to be friends. That definitely doesn't mean you keep lending them the car. But it does mean that you love them and you learn to love them. That doesn't mean you have to keep having them around or do you see what saying? Like are there consequences? Yes. Right. That doesn't mean though that you can't forgive and

love. Or like using the debt analogy, which is like you said, what forgiveness is actually Ruta Dan doesn't mean you loan the money again. Or they would need to demonstrate like, hey, I'm going to be responsible. Well, these are soft. These are easy things. Money, lending money cars. Those are good. Yes, I get it.

Somebody does something despicable, right? Like, truly criminal. To repent means prison. Okay? If we believe God's real, Preston, like if you and I, we believe God is real, Jesus is Lord. It's all real. And this life is super fast, but I know that the Lord's calling me to repent and turn from this thing.

And I go to prison, it's better than me hiding it and taking it with me because there's a destructive thing that happens on the other side of hiding that we can't quantify as humans. We try to, which is what makes us hide the first place. but real freedom is freedom where you go, this thing is super fast, and I'm going to be in the presence of Jesus. And if he's calling me to do this, because it's what he's calling you do, is repent. From this thing, you know, and it leads me to that, he's going to use it. He's going to use it for good. I have a friend of mine, and I won't say his name or anything like that, but I have a friend of mine that did something that would land him in prison. And I told him, I said to him that, I said, I will.

visit the guy who repents of this and goes to prison every day or at least once a week, I will come see you. The you that hides this, we're not going to talk anymore. I love you and I, you know, and I'm putting this in the Lord's hands, but we, you're not going to see me, you know? That's not about me, but this is like, the truth of it is, like, that's real repentance. Like, that's the real thing. So that's something that costs you something.

right but there's a fruit on the other side of that is so much more impactful because the fruit of hiding it is more damaging yeah it just is yeah it's all that's heavy i know but it's always found i mean your stuff's always found out right maybe it's next tomorrow maybe it's next year maybe it's 10 years 20 it's it's like you said the the light will expose the darkness god will reveal these things at some point um which is scary super scary. I'm looking around in my closet. I got anything. It's going to get it, you know. What if every day you just got on social media and go, here's everything I did. Oh, geez. Oh, geez. And I'm not talking about it. I don't know if I'd lose followers and gain followers.

I would follow you. Just to see what's coming next. No, look, man. Yeah. I don't want everybody to think, oh, Stephen is so spiritual and blah, blah, blah. No, I'm, I just believe it. I believe what God said. And I'm not like, legalistic or anything. That I'm just saying, I believe it, man. I mean, it's real. And it's, it's, it's good, though. It's, like, all good. That sounds bad, but it's so good. It's, like, awesome. Anyways, yeah. Tell me about your family. How old are your kids? You have three kids? Yeah, I have three boys. I have a 21-year-old. I have an 18-year-old. I have 11-year-old. All red-headed boys. Amazing. We're so blessed. They all love the Lord. It's just been wild. You're a while right. You're 21-year-old.

How old are you? None of your dangone business. What's wrong with you? I just turned 50 two days ago. I just turned 50. Yeah, I'm 47 years old. 47 years where? 47 young.

I feel good. That's what I said when I was like, you're like, do you worry about a fane catch? I'm like, I'm like, I'm for this. You know, I mean, I'm just not there. I'm not worried about it. I'm just not. It's an interesting time, you know. Yeah.

Where you, tell me a few cities you're going to be in in the near future. I'm not sure when this is going to air. So it might February March Probably what would be the best Probably would be the best that you do is tell people Go to worship Jesus

Worship Jesus Dot life L-I-F-E not dot com Worship Jesus. Dot life That's my website It's a lot easier

to spell my name Steve McCorder Worship Jesus. Dot life There's a tour page there, all the stuff there. Yeah, that's good.

I was going to say How did you get the Worship Jesus URL but then dot life is I'm sure dot com has been taken. I wish. it wasn't. But I went life. That sounds right. That's good. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Well,

Stephen, it was great chatting with you. Tell us the name of your book so people can go check it out. Radically restored. Yeah, man. How knowing Jesus heals our brokenness. It's crazy. And what does it come out? It's not out. February 10th. Okay. So right. Okay. Is it out now? Depending on when this airs. Yeah. Is that what's happening? I don't know. All of these. He's a future. Hey, future, Steve. Would you see this? Yeah.

Your book's out. Our podcast is weird. That's great. I'm good with it. Stephen, thanks so much for me to guest with the Algeria. I really appreciate it getting to know you. Love, say, man. Your story and your music's amazing.

So invite people to go check it out. Also, Stephen McWhorter, your Instagram page. I highly recommend people to check it out. Lots of great music there. And you're cranking out good stuff, man. We appreciate it. Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it.