Theology in the Raw - Raising Wise Kids in a Sexually Broken World: Laurie Krieg

Episode Date: January 15, 2026

Join the Theology in the Raw community to get access to our "extra innings" raw conversation on modesty. Laurie Krieg (M.A. Wheaton) is the Director of Parent Programs and Discipleship for The Center for Faith, Sexuality & Gender and the co-author, with her husband Matt, of the recently released book Raising Wise Kids in a Sexually Broken World: A Gospel Centered Approach (IVP). See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The top word I'd use to describe the online parenting sphere is fear. Fear is we are so scared and understandably so because it is scary. How do we protect our kids from AI teddy bears? How do we protect our kids from predators on Roblox? How do we? And then you'll see different responses to that fear. Hey, friends, welcome back to another episode of Theology and around my guest today is my good friend Lori Krieg, who is, the director of parent programs and discipleship at the Center for Faith, Sexuality, and Gender,

where she also serves as a founding board member. Lori has a master's degree in evangelism and leadership from Wheaton Graduate School. And she and her husband Matt are the co-host of the Whole in My Heart podcast. Highly recommend you go check out her podcast. They do an incredible job. And Matt and Lori also are co-authors of the recent book, Raising Wise Kids in a Sexually Confused World, a Gospel-centered approach put out by IVP just came out or it's about to come out, depending on when this podcast release. Oh my word. Lori is my absolute go-to person when it comes to learning how to parent kids, especially younger kids, in questions around sex, sexuality, gender screens and all that comes with disciplining our kids in this turbulent world where creepy teddy bears exist, as you'll

see. and as we start talking about Teddy bears in this episode, make sure you stick around for our extra innings conversation about drum roll, please, modesty. Yes, that triggered many of you, probably. But we need to talk about modesty. We need to have honest conversations about modesty, and we do that in the extra in these portions of this episode,

if you want to gain access to that extra innings portion of our episode and other extra innings portions, of our episodes, then head over to patreon.com forward slash theology and raw.com become a member for as little as five bucks a month to get access to all of these extra innings, extra innings episodes. That's a tongue twister. Okay, please welcome back to the show. Once again, the one and only, Lori Creek. Hello, Lori Creek. Welcome back to Theology and Araw. Good to see this morning. Good to see you this morning. Are you under blankets of snow out there in Michigan, or is it not too bad?

Blankets of snow outside. Real blankets inside. Yeah. It's really inside. I can't believe you and you still, you said you run no matter the conditions. I see. I've got yak tracks.

I have to buy them every year because I will break them every year. So they like keep you from tripping when you're running on ice. And then I have this new ninja mask I wear and I look like I'm going to rob a store, which, hey. Hey, you never know. You never know. Me and my St. Bernard. Do you run with you dog? Oh, yeah, my giant St. Bernard poodle.

She looks like she's going to have a heart attack. But she doesn't. She's very fluffy but skinny in there. Oh, my word. Do you look forward to running when it's like zero degrees out? Or is it like miserable or is it kind of like you'd rather the high of running overrules, any kind of like disdain for the cold or? You know, I just feel so cool, Preston.

I just feel like I can do anything after I come in. When I'm going out, I'm like, ah, this is terrible. But when I come in and my eyes are all frozen, almost frozen shot, that's the hard part. But I'm like, look what I just did. I just conquered nature. But I did get a gym membership. So I am getting older. And so that's a little bit better to go inside sometimes.

I'm training for a half marathon in February. Oh, yeah, with your son. Yeah, he's doing the full. He's training for like ultra marathons. Like he wants to do Leadville 100, which is a 100 mile run at 12,000 feet. It's insane. It's insane. And that's not even, that's actually one of the shorter ultramarathons.

We just watched a documentary last night where it was a 240 mile marathon. Marathon. I mean, it's insane. It's insane. It's insane. Yeah. It's like several days. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's incredible. Yeah. So he, he's a very determined person. I don't know where he gets it from. But so when he gets into something, he just like, he just goes solid. Anyway, I'm going to try to do the half marathon. Because I'm nursing a sprained ankle, a bad back and old age. Anyway, so I'm like, I need to get some miles in. But I'm a fair weather runner. I, when it's cold, I'm like, hmm. I'll go to the. I'll go to the. I go to the gym almost every day and that's fine. But yeah, anyway, I need to go out of run today. I need to get some, I need to get my mileage up. Oh, I love it. So you have ventured into the turbulent space of Christian parenting. I mean, I don't mind a controversy here, there.

But I don't know if I'd want to jump into that. How's it been going? You have a book coming out. you, we worked on that project together. We talked about that last one of the podcast, about raising kids, but you've been online for a while now. What's the parenting online space like? The top word I'd use to describe the online parenting sphere is fear.

Fear is we are so scared and understandably so because it is scary to birth a fragile human or adoptive fragile human and walk them into this world where we're seeing every other reel is like, look at this AI teddy bear that is going to tell your kids how to light a match and how to do sexual things. Wow. Look at this is coming for your kids. And so as parents, we, I think everyone, whether the left or the right, because there's different responses to the fear.

And they're both going to be more extreme. But I think we see that. Many of us read Anxious Generation. We see the, we see our predecessors, sorry, but your generation. And what y'all did with cell phones and not everyone. But a lot of people did with cell phones.

And then we see the research, we're like, look at this whole generation all jacked up by cell phones. And then we see especially AI. And we're like, oh, no. is coming for our kids. And I don't want to be dumb like those Gen Xers. So we're like, how do we protect our kids from AI teddy bears? How do we protect our kids from predators on Roblox?

How do we? And then you'll see different responses to that fear. So, I mean, that does seem alarming. Like, even as you're talking, I'm, like, getting anxious and fear. Right. Take. Overwhelming with fear. So are there.

are these fears are these the reasons for the fear is it overblown is it real and the response needs to be different or how would you navigate that or ted are ai sex teddy bears like that's a thing i mean that's a thing they're not on purpose sex teddy bears but you put AI tech that has not been vetted that has like zero regulations barely maybe half of one at this minute and you put them inside of a bear that is learning your child. And where did it get its AI brain from? Oh, the internet, which is like the majority porn, right? And like predatory porn. So it's, they're trying to put safeguards, but it's, I was watching a real last night, Preston. And it, whatever, maybe it was AI that I was watching, but I've seen enough of them to be like, eh, there's, there's some validity to

these and from credible resources, but that the longer your kids have these things, it's, it can learn your kids and then pull from its database, which is the dumpster fire of the internet. So you said, is there validity to the fear? I think the problem with AI right now and kids is we don't have regulations. Like Australia just passed social media and cell phone regulations for, you know, 18 and under. But how long have we had social media and iPhones? Like the craze began in 2010. Now it's almost 2026. So they took 16 years. So it's all new tech. So I don't know how much we should be cautious. But I will say this, we are never to fear. And I don't want to make this super spiritual and blah, blah, blah, blah. But truly as a mom, I am realizing

I need to spend more time in prayer about tech for my kids and just more time off the stinking internet and off away from the reels and like, Lord, give me your peace, God. I give you my fear. Help me. I really truly think that is going to, that is our safe place. And the only way we can battle, the fear of it. Hmm. So the reason for fear, all these things that are out there that could potentially get our kids, those are real. Those are real. Those are real. Those are real concerns. So it's more the response. If the response is fear, then that's not going to produce like healthy discipleship patterns. Right. So I even notice in myself. So here I am. Here's Lori. End of the day. Put my kids.

in bed and I try and only check the socials in the morning and at night and that's hard. That's like enough of my own. I can break that at any point. But let's say I check the socials and oh my word, I see 10 things and I'm like I act 10 reels that are telling me how to be afraid and really what to be cautious about. So I'm telling myself, okay, in that moment I have a choice. I can watch those reels and I can get panicked and I can go wake up my kids or the next morning when they're awake and be like, you guys, you're never getting a phone. You're never going to be on roadblocks where there's adult predators. It really is predators like coming after our kids. You're never going to watch Spotify because there's actually porn on every video. You're never going to get

anything with you're never getting anything. I can either do that or or I can go, okay, just watch this. What did I just learn from that? okay, I need to not do this, be cautious around this, put boundaries on this. God, I'm feeling very, very afraid. Help me to put guardrails around this and lead my kids out of confident peace in the gospel. The gospel of peace. So my kids, when they can perceive mommy and daddy anxious, so bad. and they have mirror neurons inside of them that is going to mimic me.

Right. So I know we were talking a little bit before recording, like, are we going to hyper put fear in our kids? A way we will do that is in our approach to the guardrails of, yes, truly scary things that are out there. Are we doing it with, here's the boundaries? Mom, why? Am I sharing every why?

Oh, because there's predators who are raping babies. Am I going to say that? No. It's just we're not going to do that right now. So what's my tone unless the guardrails are? There's crazy turbanator teddy bears that are after you. They will never get another stuffed animal again. Never any stuffed animals, right.

Oh. I mean, it is, yeah, the guardrails with tech. And this is, you know, obviously Jonathan Haight and Aynx's Generation. that we do I think we absolutely need to be way more guarded and vigilant around giving our kids tack, right?

I mean, what are some... I mean, you got kids right in this age group. Tell just for the audience, what are your ages again, your kids? They are 11, 9, and 6 years old. You're right on the cusp. Right at the age when they're starting to, you know,

going through or are, going to go through puberty and probably might be asking for a phone. They're seeing kids with phones and they probably know how to work an iPad better than way better than I will ever. What are some things? What are some practices, rhythms, boundaries that you have established for your family? So we, nobody in our house owns an iPad of our kids. We own them. We let them use them. We put up blockers on everything and then I am hyper vigilant. If I'm letting them watch a show, they're asking me about the show. And I am, I'm hyper vigilant online and then I let them play freely out in the world. But if they're doing research for something for school, I'm like,

it's in the open area. Everyone can look in at any point. And really, my kids could even check my phone. If they need to, you know, I'm not hiding anything on my phone, but every screen, if it's for school, is in an open area. We put blockers on all of our screens, but the things that can just pop up, hopefully won't, although they can get through. And then we really have worked to say only watching shows on the weekends. This is new. We really want our kids to, and they choose, we try and choose a family video so that we are, having to coordinate together, to choose as a group what we're watching so we don't all have our own personal screens where that doesn't encourage negotiation, which is a part of life, that doesn't encourage compromise. It's just very selfish and self-centered if we're all

just watching our own screen on our own time. Now, there are times where my older girls want to watch like a Disney preteen thing and our six-year-old son would rather watch sharks. So I'll watch a Shark Show or Matt Will with Ellis and the girls will watch preteen free romance or something like that. We'll watch it with them. But we really try and keep everything communal that we really want to foster in our home that screens are not meant to be in our rooms by ourselves where we're just doing things on our own because that can really perpetuate searching for things that we don't need to search for and that can really perpetuate hiddenness. So we wanted to be a community. thing. So nobody has their own screens and we really try and make it a negotiation process,

which is harder and can encourage fights. It's crazy how what people are viewing or want to view has shifted so quickly over the years. Like it's gone from like movies up until a few years ago, like that's what teens or kids would want to watch. I can only speak to my anecdotal experience. Like that has quickly shifted to like shows. Like my kids rarely have the attention span or desire to want to sit down and watch a two-hour movie. Like that's not every now and then. I'm a Christmas time. We always have our famous, you know, Christmas movies.

But yeah. But then even now, it's almost like shows are sometimes the poll would be just to kind of scroll funny cat reels or something, you know. Like we do that. We'll do that, you know, like, hey, look at this funny reel. you know oh look at this one you know and it's like sometimes if we if we have like veg time it would almost not even be show i mean shows are still there but it's just it's interesting how quickly things of morphed and how short short the things that we're watching are you know i know and i have heard that they're trying to make shows even shows dumber shorter because they under

like dumber like the the narrative more simple so because they recognize that people are always on their phones and doing two things at the same time. So I want my kids to be a part of the percentage that has a brain. They say even scrolling shorts is like worse for your brain than drinking alcohol. So yes, for sure. So it's, oh yeah. So it's for us to force ourselves to compromise and watch longer shows and not only seven minutes. minute bluey episodes, which that doesn't, this doesn't have to be legalistic and all we never

watch shorts. We never watch this. It's not that, but can we say the goal is to, if we're watching a show, try and make it longer, try and make it a community family thing that we can talk about after, which is huge. My family and I love the Bible recap. Tara Lee Cobbles books and podcasts are incredible resources to help you understand the Bible. And now, Tara Lee and her team just produced the Bible recap. 365-day chronological study Bible. This beautifully designed study Bible features 365 scripture readings

in chronological order, daily reflections on God's character and faithfulness, and insightful, easy to understand recaps. This year-long adventure through scripture will help you read, understand, and love the Bible, and most of all, the God who wrote it. The Bible Recap Bible is available on hardcover, soft cover imitation leather brown, and hardcover. cover imitation leather pink. It would make a perfect meaningful gift for a mature saint or a brand new believer. Check it out by heading over to Amazon or

bakerbookhouse.com to buy your copy today. What do you do when something inappropriate comes up in a show? Or I guess maybe first to find what that, like yeah, do you have guardrails around you know, the content

Obviously you do, but yeah, I would like to know what they are and how you handle that kind of in the moment. So we have a three strikes and you're out rule as far as shows. And by that, it's like if there's three inappropriate things that are like minorly appropriate. So let's say like they say the word ass or something. Donkeys, a donkey. Donkey. Yeah, they're talking about donkeys. Donkeys.

Can I say that? You might need to strike that from the record. Or they pun, you know, it's like, they're like really rude to each other. It's just this minor layer of like, you know what, that's stuff that we don't really do in our family, but it's three strikes. I'm like, you know what, let's just call this movie good. Let's call it a day. We're going to be all done with this one. But if there is something like major violence or heterosexual romance, like I don't, like where the whole thing is like inappropriate, coercive heterosexual.

romance where it's like this manipulative way that we're like, this just isn't really promoting light in the kingdom of God. We may just, that's a one strike in your out. Or if the major focus is LGBTQ romance or even something that's like, this is in a storyline, this is making it seem like this is a good path of flourishing, we'll probably turn that off. But the way you turn something off,

matters just as much as turning it off, if not more. So when you turn off that show with inappropriate content, instead of just being like, oh, this world is just a dumpster fire and blah, blah, blah, blah, where it's a very us versus them posture. It's better, in my view, to say why we're turning it off with that non-anxious, peaceful gospel confidence. So how we do that in our house is answer the question, compare it to God's design, and then talk about how to love.

That's my rule of thumb. So we even do that. I do that when my kids are asking about the rainbow flag. I do that when my kids are talking about, asking about gender, asking about why is that couple have kids? They're not married. Answer the question, compare it to God's design, talk about how we're going to love. Do that. When you turn off this show so that your kids don't just.

know, oh, that's bad and why is that bad and we're good and they're bad, but that they understand how to approach this world with the same peaceful gospel confidence that you have. Teach them. Use that moment as a teaching moment. So if it was something where it was same-sex romance, I'd say, guys, you know what, we're not going to watch that because they believe about marriage that we don't actually believe. Answer the question, even if they didn't ask you, you answered the question in their head. Take it to God's design. Because we actually believe that God wants marriage to be between two people whose bodies are different

because when moms and dads whose bodies are different love each other, they show you a picture of how much God loves you even though he's so different from us. So now I'm saying the beauty. Now we love people who wrestle in that. way or I'd even ask it, usually ask it a question now, do we, how do we treat people who who struggle that way? Do we hate them? Sometimes my kids might say yes to that early on. I was first teaching them, do we hate them because kids are black and white? No, we love them, but we want, we're going to love everybody, but we're just not going to watch that in our

house. What else can we watch? But do you see Preston that this is hopefully, even if I feel scared inside. Even if I'm anxious while I'm having the conversation, hopefully I'm modeling to them. No, healthy boundaries. What is God's design? How are we going to approach the world as a family? Yeah. It's like a positive redirection rather than an anxious, you know, turn off the TV program. You're using this as an opportunity to point people back to Jesus, both his truth and his grace. How do you, oh, go ahead. Can I say one thing? Yeah, yeah. The best. way, the best way for your kids to know how you will respond to them or their friends with whatever you just talked about. You just turned it off because it's people sleeping

together before outside of marriage. You just turn it off because super violent. You just turn it off because they're celebrating porn. You just turned it off because they're celebrating same-sex marriage or gender transitioning. You are teaching your kids in how, not only that you turn it off, but in how you talk about it when you turn it off. You are teaching them how you will respond to them with however you just talked about the world out there. You're the best indicator for your kids to know how you'll respond to them with whatever they struggle with or whatever their friends struggle with is how you respond to the world in these little bite-sized ways.

That's so good. How do you, we don't, you know, we can move on to other topics. But I know for, and maybe this was more how I would think of like movies or shows for, myself. I haven't thought about it too much in the category of the younger kids. But I've often made the distinction. Does a movie or film simply contains sin or does it make sin compelling and attractive? Because, I mean, let's face it, unless you're watching like Christian films only or something, even then they can be kind of wonky. But like, if it's a film created by non-believers from the world for the world, of course, it's not going to promote a Christian

worldview. But even the world contains sin. Right. And it would be almost like a dishonest film if it didn't represent that. My class, whenever I talk about this, I always go to the classic example of one of my favorite movies, the Grand Tarino with Clint Eastwood. It's, are raided. There's violence. There's lots of racial slurs. There's tons of swearing. But it's about this old racist white dude whose neighborhood is becoming gentrified in the opposite direction, you know. I think he's living outside of Detroit, actually, in the film. And a bunch of mongs have moved in from Southeast Asia. And he's just grumbling. I mean, He plays the most perfect, you know, 75-year-old war veteran races.

So to capture that, there's racial slurs that are a little like, is it okay? And sometimes you're kind of like laughing. You're like, oh, should I laugh at that? Right. But the whole redemptive arc is one of the most powerful. It's incredible. But to have that redemptive arc, you have to have a problem and we're going to have a solution. So you have to capture the racism in order to see the redemptive arc.

You have to capture gang violence to capture. I won't spoil it too much. You have to go watch it. But like it is one of the most gospel-centered films I've seen. Yes. Without naming Jesus, although the ending almost comes closer to naming Jesus. And the story of redemption is extremely close to the gospel. But it's like, yeah, this is our.

like a lot of bad stuff that's contained it, but it doesn't, it doesn't glorify sin. It actually shows this beautiful story of being redeemed from sinful ways. Now that's, that's a, that's an example that I think is like, this is a clear case where you need. Yeah, it would be a lame movie if it wasn't rated R, quite honestly. Other films, it's a little, you know, for me, as somebody who's not, doesn't advocate for violence, man, somebody. Sometimes vengeance and violence can be so compelling.

Get this person harmed your kids, your wife, blah, blah, blah. I'm going to take a chainsaw to his legs. There was one movie I was watching where it was so over the top in its revenge. But there was something in me that was stirred up. I was like on the side of the person taking vengeance because the horrific things that, you know. And I'm like, this is stirring something inside me that I don't want to be there. And it's subtle, though. It's like it's almost like seems just and right.

Anyway. Yes. How do you navigate that? You know, films, movies that contain sin versus that might be good for your kids to see because that's the real world. Or maybe it's not. I don't know. Versus ones that are make sin compelling. I love what you're saying because I'm someone who's like, yeah, let's go into the grit of the world.

But there's certain things that I can't see or shouldn't see because as Lori, how Lori is broken, I don't want to. to fill my mind with that. But there's certain, like the juxtaposition of what I'm hearing in you is this light and dark is that sometimes we got to crawl through the darkness to see the light, which that's the story the Bible tells. Yeah. Like the Bible tells the truth about the beauty of Jesus and the gospel. And it's like, look at how horrible Solomon is and look at this like David in the foreskins

and oh, you're going to get an ear rating. And, but like, I'm not telling my kids all of the gritty details of the Bible at three years old. But as they get older, I can tell the story of like, yes, this dad, he had sex with his daughter-in-law or whatever. Like, this is the grit, but my six-year-old can't hear that. But my 11, 12, 15-year-old can hear that because she has a developmental capacity. but she also has the theological capacity. So this is the whole analogy for us then we've talked about a thousand times. Let's just say it one more time is that kids need good soil and the right amount of wind.

If they are trees, if we picture kids like trees, they need good soil and the right amount of wind to build strong roots. For my six-year-old to watch the Clint Eastwood movie you were talking about. Be too much. It would be too much. It would be a hurricane. Right, right. So as parents, I do think what you're saying, though, is a really good point. I don't want to oversimplify and be like, of course you don't show a six-year-old rated R movie.

Like, duh. But at what level do we expose our kids to increasing not only the protective zero wind? And then when our kids turn 18 and they're able to watch all these rated R movies, they have no even discernment to know which rated R movie could be a blessing. And what's not? You know, that it actually doesn't preach the gospel. So how can we help them in these little ways to grow, to understand in age-appropriate ways, the pain of the world and the gospel beauty of the world? And that takes prayer and discernment and knowing our kids at what level of wind they can handle today.

that's good that's good let's turn back to sexuality because your book is focused on on sex sexuality, marriage, singleness, raising wise kids in a sexually broken world and I love the subtitle

I want to come back to the subtitle a gospel-centered approach, super good. So it seems like at least my generation you know, so much of it was shaped by purity culture. And I don't know how much you want to get into this. It's just when I see a book written on parenting your kids through questions around sex and sexuality, it's just like,

alarm bell. Well, it's just like my question, not alarm bells, but my question is like, okay, we did that back of the 80s and 90s. Not everything, in my opinion, was terrible. like anything. There's, you can, I, you know, there's usually going to be some good things in an approach that might have some bad or even harmful things. So how, what, I guess let me ask you, how have you seen parents respond to their purity culture upbringing? Are they outright rejecting it? throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Are they embracing it? Is it something that like, no,

some are like, no, passport to purity. I did it as a kid. We popped the balloon, tore the pedals off the flower, and it was great. It helped me to follow Jesus. And I'm going to pop balloons with my kids. And people don't know I'm talking about, just like Google it or something. Yeah. I think, I keep thinking about this, that we will transmit to our kids or to those we are disciplining. We're going to transmit that which we don't transform with God. And by that, I mean, we all carry our sexual stories into our parenting and our disciple making. You weren't born when you were 22 and got married or you weren't born fresh from the womb, like with a brand new sexuality when you had kids. No, you carry your sexual story into your parenting, and that

sucks because zero of us have a perfect sexual sexuality. And even if you think you have perfect sexuality and everyone else is a problem, that's your brokenness. That's called pride. Okay. So, so I think what you're asking is, is what do people do with their sexual stories is I notice that if we don't take what we are stories and take it to the Lord and in community, that means therapy, that means friends who ask you great questions about like, hey, what was it like for you growing up? And then say, Lord, what pieces of that were gospel? Which pieces of that actually were really glorifying you?

Which pieces that are just like legalism or reaction to the legalism? They grew up in purity's culture and it felt legalistic. What was me reacting? Because I see parents doing one of two things is they just like have kids. And then we're just like, oh, gosh, shoot, I really can't wait for us not to talk about puberty. And then we like have to talk about it or our kids discover porn or our kids come out. And then we just react. And we either repeat what our parents did.

If you don't do the sifting, the transformation with God process, you're just going to repeat it. You're just going to do your own version of it. or you're going to react to it. But your childhood narrative is still controlling you because you never did the sifting process. You just default repeat or default react. And I would say, stop, like today, push the reset button and say, okay, I want to start processing which pieces of this were gospel

and which weren't. and then so that I pass out a legacy that looks a little bit closer to the beauty of the gospel. That's good. That's good. What do you see are the pros and cons of purity culture? And how does your approach to having this conversation differ or agree? There's elements of agreement. I think the pros are that, like I see purity culture as a reaction to, to the sexual revolution of the 60s and 70s.

It's parents were like, oh, my word, look at the divorce rates. Christians are divorcing at the same rate as non-Christians. Oh, my goodness, look at premarital sex, look at babies outside of wedlock. And they probably use lots of that word, wedlock. And the reaction, there was some good reaction in that it was like, okay, we want this to look more like the beautiful union between Christ and the church. And we want this to be pure. And we want people to have an opportunity to restart again with Jesus.

That I like is that there was this element of like you can always restart again. I didn't hear the once you sin, you're going to hell. I heard some of that. And then I also heard, you can always repent and restart. I appreciated that. And I think that was kind of pervasive, at least in my version of it. What I didn't like is that I didn't hear enough, Jesus. I didn't hear enough that the purpose of your life is not to get married and have good sex. I heard a lot of like, no, you want to get married and have a place to put your lust, especially men. And even women, oh, wow, women are lustful too. We want to have a lot.

It's a good place to put their lust. There was no kingdom of God talk. There was no like, what is the actual purpose of your life? So then along comes Lori, who in college is going to Christian college and finds herself in a secret same-sexual relationship. And my life feels over because not only am I a sexual sinner, I'm not even like the good type of sexual center, the straight type. What's the restart for me? And then it felt like my life was over because that was the purpose was marriage and good sex in marriage. And I was like, well, I suck, huh?

I wish there'd been more Kingdom of God talk. And that is where my book begins, this kingdom of God. I love that so much. I love that you start your book, first two chapters, laying a thick foundation of the gospel. What is the gospel? And that in my, well, I'm by no means a purity culture expert. I think I've read like two pages of a purity culture book. So, but I was nurtured in that.

It was just the air we breathe. Yeah, it was. Yep. It does seem like that, if I can use the phrase, the idolatry of marriage, meaning marriage is an amazing, beautiful, necessary thing for the advancement of humanity reflects God's covenant love for us. Awesome institution. but it's not essential for human flourishing. You're not incomplete if you don't get married. That nuance, it seems like, was pretty pervasively absent from purity culture.

Would that be correct? My interpretation of it. And maybe there's someone listening like, no, I only preached kingdom of God, which is great. But that was the, that's what I heard was it was very horizontal, not vertical as far as what's the purpose. of our lives. Portland! I know you are hearing this because my data guy tells me that you're one of my top cities for downloads. Well, I will be in your neighborhood March 8th and 9th, 2026 for the Portland Faith, Sexuality,

and Gender Conference, and I am hoping to see you there. The full conference is designed to equip pastors, educators, and church leaders to engage the LGBTQ conversation with grace and truth. We'll take a deep dive into all the many theological, relational, and ministry-related questions that come up in this conversation. You'll also have the option to register for just the two-and-a-half-hour introduction to the LGBTQ conversation that's taking place the first evening on Sunday, March 8th. This session would be perfect for parents of LGBTQ kids, high school and college students,

and anyone who's just starting their journey in this conversation. To sign up, just head over to centerforfaith.com forward slash events and select the Portland conference. We also have incredible group pricing. you can bring along your friends and fellow pastors and church staff. Okay, so once again, that's centerforfaith.com events forward slash events to sign up for the faith, sexuality, and gender conference on March 8th and March 9th. Thanks so much to our friends over at Amago Day Community Church for hosting this conference.

Have you seen some unhealthy rejections of peer to? Of course you have. I'm throwing new. Yeah. And what does that look like? What would like a reaction, you know, somebody in legitimately, I've talked to people who had, and I don't know, I know there were trauma can be used too much or too loosely, but some people have had some serious, maybe it would be categorized as trauma, but just really bad, unhealthy experiences with the purity culture background that, you know, 30 years later, they're still dealing with wounds that haven't been healed. So the negative impact that some people have had is absolutely real and legit. Totally.

Some other ones that might have been like, I really wouldn't have sex with my boyfriend and, you know, a parent wouldn't let me and, you know, I'm traumatized with that. Maybe that. I don't know. Yeah. So, but some, you know, critically analyzing and leaving behind certain unhealthy aspects of purity culture would be a good. good thing, I think. What are some unhealthy reactions to purity culture that you've seen? And my second question is, are you seeing this on the parent sphere of social media with a lot of fear driven? Because it sounds like it's kind of the opposite, more kind of like a hyper-conservative

reaction against liberal culture and stuff. But yeah, I am seeing. So I think an unhealthy response to purity culture, like a reactivity. So like I said, if we're not, processing it, we're going to either repeat it or we're going to react to it. So if I'm talking about the reactors, it's become their identity, is their victim status? And I'm, help me, Lord, help my words to be kind and generous, is the wound they received. Like when I picture someone sending against me, it's like they stab me with a little dagger. And I have a choice when someone sins against me, which you were sent against. Let's call that. If there was a unbiblical theology of sex and sexuality that was done to you and that you were wounded, that's not just trauma,

that's sin done to you. So when you have that done to you, you have a choice. You can either leave that dagger in and be like, look at, I'm the kid with the dagger. Look at how I'm a hurt I was. This is my new identity. You can do that. You don't have to. You don't have to. do, but you can. I wouldn't say that that's like the best way to advance the kingdom of God, you can do some good work. I wouldn't recommend that God wants us to live wounded forever. Or you could take it out and you could stab people back. Be like, you're the worst, you're the problem. And that can be your identity is on the person who stabs back for legitimate sin that was done to you. So I'm a victim. I'm a stab back. Or you can give that to Jesus and let him

die for this sin done to you. And you can say, God, I give up the right to pay them back. Another word we could say here is, I forgive them. And then if there's any ways that you have actually sinned in response to what they've done to you, God, I confess that is sin. I hated them. I've been bitter. I'm so sorry, God, I have stabbed people back. And you let Jesus take that sin. Let him die for that sin. And you ask him, oh, oh, what does it say in the Bible? It says we're not supposed to just forgive our enemies, but love our enemies.

God, will you give me love for my enemies? Now, that doesn't mean you go and hug your perp. That doesn't mean you're going to go do that. But it does mean that when you speak out in truth, you're going to do it with a different heart. You're going to do it with one that is probably got some righteous anger, but it's a heart that is motivated by love, not a heart that is motivated by bitterness. That's good.

So that's where I, when I see people online, I'm like, you guys are so bloody and you're bitter. And this is your identity. And I wish you would forgive and love and move on because you could actually be way more effective for the kingdom of God. You're talking about people that may have been really hurt by aspects of purity culture. Yeah. Maybe they were sexually abused by a boyfriend.

I'm that person too. Yep. Keep going. Yeah, you're not speaking from, you're speaking from experience. Yes. I'm speaking from experience. Like, and I've had the misogyny, the hevel, the purity culture. Then I get all the both sides for talking about LGBT stuff and then the sexual harm.

And you guys, like, this is not me just like getting a lobotomy and being like, what do you mean trauma. What do you mean purity culture? Like I have done the grief and I have to keep doing the grief. And I guess it's just like I feel bad. Like you're living in chains of unforgiveness

and bitterness and you don't have to. So you're saying if somebody wears their trauma their experience of being a legitimate victim, if they wear that as kind of a perpetual

ongoing identity then that's is that evidence that they're not they haven't truly healed from that or they're not

pursuing healing which if you don't you're not going to find true happiness and flourishing right I can't judge someone's heart

but I would just say it seems like some of people's outward platform work is just like the feel of it is so bitter

and hateful when you could be maybe even saying the exact same words. But if you've done the forgiveness and love work, which maybe they have, and I'm just like totally misreading it. But it's just, there's just this posture of love and calling out still, but the heart, the tone of it is different. Yeah, that's so good. So good. You know Brett of Blaine, right?

She's been through goodness, like you. I mean, so many things that she talks very publicly about. And even at a fairly young age, man, she's, she's, yeah, a good example of somebody who is constantly pursued the path of healing, even though that path is very difficult, has highs and lows and valleys and peaks. Totally. an ongoing struggle, but I think she sees the beauty and joy found in, you know, not living in that ongoing bitterness. Okay. So what are the most helpful things I have learned from you and others that you've learned from is the need to talk about sex with your kids and bodies with your kids. and one of the, I guess one of the needs to do that, obviously prepare them with God's intention.

We are sexual beings. And if we just don't talk about it, they're going to be disciples from somewhere else, you know, maybe a teddy bear. Goodness. Sex bears are the theme of today. I'm a bit of a nightmare about sex bears. Jeez. What about, so, oh, so one of the main, a main reason. also is to help your kids

spot situations where there could be potential abuse. Groomers are real. There's more than we think. Church is a magnet for groomers. I hate to say it. I know. So Christian spaces sometimes can be just as bad if not, I don't know, make worse,

but it's not necessarily, just because you go inside the walls of a church doesn't mean like, oh, now I'm free from all the predators out there. One of the most helpful things in your book and the project we created and other people are talking about it is when we talk to our kids at a very young age about the goodness of their bodies, name body parts, be clear about what sex is and what it isn't. What are sinister forms of this that you need to be able to spot that we cannot, as parents,

when we have healthy conversations with our kids, we cannot prevent categorically sexual abuse from happening. But I think this is pretty much proven. We can minimize it to some extent when we prepare our kids.

Would that be correct? I got a follow-up question. Statistically, yes, like the number one preventer of childhood sexual abuse is teaching your kids biological, anatomical names for their private parts. these signals to predators.

They have parents who are very involved because predators look for kids who are neglected, who don't understand what's going on. We're going to be highly trusting and they can create nicknames and turn it into a game. But if you have taught your kids biological names for their private parts

and why we protect and honor them in certain ways as opposed to they're not shameful, but we protect and honor them and you have rules around the private parts, but especially talking about them, with specific anatomical language is a signal to the predator. And it tells your kids, like, this is not a shameful thing that I need to hide from.

Because if someone would start to groom and even touch your kid, your kid is going to know, like, hey, this is not what's supposed to happen with this part of my body. So that's huge. And yes, statistically, it does decrease sexual abuse. What are some signs of a potential groomer predator that you talk to your kids about some things to look out for? I don't tell my kids. I try not to scare my kids that there are groomers around every corner. What I do talk about is what is a trustworthy person. Oh, okay.

And then I do, the only thing I would say is, is this person a trustworthy person? And then we have, I'm just always trying to make it positive. And then I do say, listen, if you're feeling awkward or uncomfortable or you don't know this person well, like, listen. A phrase that people use is, this person is a tricky person. So how I talk about trust and like, how does someone earn the right to be close to you? Is they need to walk in the way of Jesus. So that means as a family we're studying. What does the way of Jesus look like?

It's the fruit of the spirit. They are reliable. They do what they say are they going to, they're going to do. So you're expecting this. They say they're going to do this and then they do it. And the third thing is they do those three things over a long period of time. You need to know someone for a long period of time. So this is, we talk about trust as a trust jar.

I got this from Renee Brown, is that when you meet someone, it's like this invisible trust jar. A jar that could be full of marbles appears between you. And that's like the jar of your relationship. And so how I'll describe it to my kids is like you have this jar between you and this person. And every time they walk in the way of Jesus, they get a marble in the jar. When they do what they say they're going to do or they're reliable or dependable, they get a marble in the jar. And they do that for a long time, they get a marble in the jar.

But when they don't walk in the way of Jesus, they lie, they hit you, they say they're going to do something and they don't do it. Or you don't even know them that long. They can't have a lot of marbles in the jar. Therefore, they're not going to go on a family vacation with us. Therefore, we might not hug them when we see them. Therefore, we're not going to spend a lot of close time with them in various private spaces if we don't know them. So does that prevent now?

I can't prevent it, but it does help my kids understand what to look for in trustworthy people or even the idea that you don't trust everyone automatically, that they get the right to be close to you automatically. So that's one way we do it. And we do have rules around private parts as well. That's really helpful because I was talked to somebody the other day about this whole topic. And she said that she's like, well, how do you, how do you not instill this like overwhelming fear among kids, you know, that every other person is, you know, a better? And, you know, she said when she was young, you know, her parents would like, don't take candy from strangers. And the way she's why, now, not even kids wired this way, but the way she was wired was, you know, her mind would just immediately go to kind of like worst case scenario, right? So she's like thinking like, oh, so this world is filled the people sticking razor blades and poison and every snicker bar and everybody that says hi to me is out to get me. And that's most kids probably don't go to that. But that's just where her mind would go. And so she's like, man, I felt like if I was told that, hey, be on the lookout for people or whatever, she would just go to the worst, you know, like for her that probably wouldn't have been good. But what you're saying is you're not really telling their kid, hey, there's predators out there.

And if a guy smiles at you, you know, be aware or whatever. Like you're positively teaching them who is a trustworthy person rather than reinforcing that there are bad people out there. And here's all the list of signs to notice if somebody's trying to groom you or something. Right. We're trying to go for the positive with what's trustworthy. Again, we do have rules around private parts. Like you don't ask, you don't touch, you don't show, you don't ask to see your touch. And if anyone asks you to see or touch any of your private parts, come tell us.

We have rules. You don't shut doors if we're playing at play dates. And then I do say listen to your gut. Like if anything just feels weird, just tell me. but I just think about kids development. Like if we're filling them with all this fear, their brains are going to be shaped to be in fear mode or defend mode. That's what Jonathan Haidt talks about.

Like this defend mode, they can't learn well. They're perpetually anxious. They have a hard time making friends. If they're always looking for the boogeyman around the corner or the next razor blade in the candy bar, the next predator on whatever show, their brains are going to develop well. So how can we help them to look for the world with joy and wonder, well giving them lenses to discern trustworthiness?

It's a real balance as a parent because we can live in fear. But how can we teach them wisdom, discernment, while preserving this joy and wonder of being a kid? Yeah, that's so good. That's so good. And I think it probably depends, too, on just different personalities among your kids. Like some kids, they'll hear like, yeah, there's some predators out there like, all right, I'll be on the watch out. In other words, might be like, oh, my gosh, everybody's a predator, you know.

I know. And I think if you know your kid well, you can know how much you should say, how much you shouldn't say so that they develop healthy patterns of wisdom and resilience rather than crippling anxious fear. I think that's true. And then, but then as a mom who has a three or an 11, nine and six year old, there's a part of me that's like, I'm still getting to know my kids. And they surprise me. Like the one that I'm like, oh, you're so strong. And then she's like, no, I'm actually terrified right now. Like, great. Well, I'm trying my best. So I, yes, yes. And pray and pray and wing it. That's like, that's parenting. Study, pray and wing it. Yeah. I am so excited about your book, Lori. Well, thanks, Preston. Again, raising kids in a sexually broken world, a gospel-centered approach. I don't know of a single person who has done more research in the Christian parenting sphere than you.

You and I share the trait of when we sink our teeth into a topic, it's 180%. And way to spin that positively, Preston. Some people might call us neurotic. Yes, a little bit. No, it's like the stats you pull out and the quotes from different books, it's like you have digested so much out there and produce something that's truly gospel-centered. So if you are a parent with especially younger kids or a soon-to-be parent with no kids or even if you're married and, yeah, well, I guess that would be the last category. Anyway, highly encouraged people to check it out.

I want to, can you, do you have a few more minutes? I want to, I want to go into some. extra innings an extra innings conversation about modesty because I this is so touchy and I don't sometimes I think too freely about this and get too honest and sometimes it

bites me in the butt so if you want to listen to Lauren I's conversation. You're fully covered butts. Yes. If you want to listen to our extra interest conversation on modesty, however it's going to go. I don't know what we're going to talk about. I don't know how it's going to go. We'll see how it goes.

Then head over to patreon.com forward slash theology and a raw become part of the Theology and Rape, Patreon, community, blah, blah, blah, links in the show notes. Okay, let's talk about modesty.