Theology in the Raw - S2 Ep1021: #1021 - My 15 Year Old Daughter Peppers Me with Lots of Hard Questions about the Bible and Christianity: Josie Sprinkle

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

Okay, so this is a different sort of podcast episode. Here’s the backstory. My third daughter, Josie, is an Enneagram 5 and always has LISTS (like, very long lists) of questions about the Bible, God, Christianity, and Religion. And they are always very difficult and thoughtful questions. So, every couple of weeks, we have this tradition where we’ll go out to chips and salsa and work through her questions. One day, I suggested: “hey, we should record this on the podcast?!” And she said, “Um, no?!” But then she thought about it and said she’d be willing to consider this, and then she said she’d love to be on the podcast to talk through her questions. So that’s what this podcast is. Honestly, it’s a pretty raw and real and intimate family moment where my 15 year old daughter and I talk about the Bible.  If you would like to support Theology in the Raw, please visit patreon.com/theologyintheraw for more information! 

Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode of Theology in the Raw. This is going to be a different sort of episode. I'm going to try something out that debated whether I should do this or not, but I talked to my daughter, Josie, and she's like, yeah, let's go for it. So, Josie is my third daughter. She's 15 years old. She always has a lot of really, really good, interesting, challenging theological and biblical questions. And really good, interesting, challenging theological and biblical questions. And usually about once every maybe two weeks, we do this thing where we go to a local restaurant, we get some chips and salsa, and we go through her list of questions. And it's one of the most challenging and funnest parts of my relationship with Josie. And so I said, hey, would you ever want to do that on the

podcast? She's like, no, but then she's like, maybe. And she's like, yeah, let's do it. Let's try it out. So that's what you're going to listen to. It's in the morning. We actually went and got some chips and salsa, brought it down into my basement. And we just did our little time together and hit record. So honestly, I thought she was going to be nervous. She didn't seem nervous at all. And I would say the first like 20 minutes, I felt more nervous. I don't know why. I was like, oh my gosh, we're like recording this conversation. So anyway, I hope you enjoy this conversation.

I always enjoy hanging out with Josie and maybe you will too in the next couple seconds. Please welcome to the show for the first time, the one and only Josie Sprinkle. What's up guys, welcome back to the vlog. Go ahead and smash that like button and click that subscribe button. If you like the video, please comment in the thing below. It's not a vlog. It's a vlog. A vlog or blog?

Back to the vlog. All right, so we are here in my basement um we do have chips and salsa and um it what time is it like nine in the morning nine thirty nine thirty in the morning chips and salsa goes good any time of the day and because we have chips and salsa in my basement my dog came down and joined us because wherever there's food, there's my dog. So Tank, welcome to the podcast. Welcome back to the vlog, Tank. Welcome back to the vlog, Tank. All right.

So Josie, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself? How old are you? I am 15. 15? And what's your favorite color? Yellow. Yellow? Why yellow?

Who likes yellow? Kind of cowardly. That is a coward. No, green. Isn isn't green the is yellow a cowardly color well dwight according to dwight it's cowardly all right so how many questions you got over there i have a long list really it's been a few weeks i think since we've met so it's been a minute since we had our meeting who called did we call the meeting all right you want to start us off with a question okay let's do it all right all right and this is just a reminder this is totally i have no clue what she's gonna ask oh yeah so never told me we'll see how this goes okay you're starting off with a passage yep all right weird okay class flipped to first corinthians Okay, class, flip to 1 Corinthians 7.16.

7.16, okay. Oh, no, okay. Okay, it says, don't you wives realize that your husbands might be saved because of you? And don't you husbands realize that your wives might be saved because of you? Does this mean that a Christian is allowed to get married to a non-Christian because they might like save them throughout the marriage or? Okay. That's a good question. So, um, this is,

so first Corinthians seven, the whole chapter is all about like marriage and singleness. And if you're married to a non-believer, what do you do? And, um, what if you're then divorced or, you know, or widowed? So you get married, like it's all about marriage. The whole chapter is all about different, you know, things about what to do with different states, statuses, statuses of marriage or not married, married or non-married. So, um, no, I don't think he's, I don't think Paul's telling people they should marry a non-believer. I think he's instructing people who are already married to a non-Christian. So for instance, like if it, like in that world, Christianity was brand new. And so people were, you know, coming into the

faith as adults. And there's a number of people that maybe one spouse would have became a Christian while the other wasn't a Christian. So I think that's the question that Paul's trying to address here. People are like, well, wait a minute. I became a Christian, but my spouse isn't a Christian. So I think that's the question that Paul's trying to address here. People are like, well, wait a minute. I became a Christian, but my spouse isn't a Christian. Should I leave my non-Christian spouse? And Paul's like, no, no, you don't. Just because your spouse isn't a believer, don't divorce that person. And then that's why he gives this statement here. Like, you know, he might actually get saved through you. So stay in the relationship because he might or he or she might become a Christian through your. Yeah. So you don't believe that a Christian can't, like you believe a Christian can't get married to a non-Christian?

I don't think that the Bible encourages a Christian to marry a non-Christian, no. And this, I mean, this is honestly all throughout the old Testament. This is like pretty clear all throughout the old Testament that God's like telling the, the, at that time, the Israelites not to marry. He would often say like, don't marry foreign women. And, but that's not, it's not like, it's not the ethnicity. That's the problem. In fact, we see marriages where it was between a foreign person and a, and an Israelite. But foreign people outside of Israel tip almost always were like, they worship pagan gods. So it was like, don't intermarry with other people of other religions because that's just gonna, typically it's gonna

like work against you. So we have that all throughout the old Testament. You don't see as many commands like that in the new Testament, but you do see statements that kind of reflect that same mindset. Don't be unequally yoked with a nonbeliever could be related to that command in the Old Testament. Yeah, it's all throughout the Old Testament. It's one of the, I would say, one of the most pervasive commands in the Old Testament is don't marry somebody of a different religion. say one of the most pervasive commands in the old Testament is don't marry somebody of a different religion. Yeah.

Well, like what about someone who is like on the, like, like who's not a different, he's not a different or not. They're not a different like religion. They're like, whatever.

I just like, don't believe in anything or I don't know what they believe in. Like, are you still like, are you still like, do not marry that person? Because there's, it's so easy that you could influence them.

And yeah, like I know like they can influence you, but like they're like but they have no religion. Yeah, that's a good question because in the Old Testament, it is specifically somebody that has a different religion. So you're saying like what if they're just an atheist? Yeah, I think it would still – I think the principle would still apply. I mean think about even if you end up having kids,

then all of a sudden like one parent doesn't even believe in God. One does. Like that can be really confusing for the kid, especially if, even if, even if, let's just say for you, even if like your spouse was an atheist and like, no, no, let's get married and it'll totally be fine. Like you can totally raise the kids in the faith and I'm totally fine with that. You know, you may say that at the beginning. I'm totally fine with that. You know, you may say that at the beginning, you don't know, like two, three, four, five, 10 years down the road, you know, if he's going to be, you know, if he's actually going to let you raise him in the faith. And I mean, honestly, best case scenario is for a kid to have both parents, both Christians,

you know, raising them in the faith like that, that would be the absolute best for your kids. So yeah, I think the same principle would apply. I mean, yeah. Does that make sense? Yep. Did that, did that work? Yeah, that worked. Or one for one. All right. Does God love those who turn away from him and sin? Like who like reject him? And I have a follow-up question after this.

Okay. And your answer, but. What do you think? I'm asking, what do you believe? I have more questions after this. Okay. Answer it quick. I think when we talk about God's love for people, it's not really, there's no like one size fits all for that. Like there is one general sense in which God loves all of his creation. But I do think there's a particular sense in which God loves those who are submitting to the Lordship of Christ and are trying to follow him and become like Jesus.

Like, I think there is a particular kind of love that God has for that person. Like, does God love, for instance, let's just say, does God love you just the same as he loves Hitler? I would feel like, I don't. But we're all his children, aren't we? Yes. Again, so in that general sense, God loves all people created in his image in a general sense.

But I do think that his love for you is different in kind and maybe even in scope than his love for Hitler. That sounds almost weird to even say his love, you know. Because I do think that god will judge severely people like hitler so and other people that do um incredibly wicked things and actually are harming and hurting god's image bearers you know it's similar to me like i do i love all are we called the love our enemy our neighbor yes but if somebody came in and like call the lover our enemy, our neighbor, yes.

But if somebody came in and like slit your throat and killed our whole family, is my love for that person exactly the same as my love for you? Even though you're dead at that point. But like, I mean, well, no, it's, yes, on a general level, I love all people. But that person also harmed an innocent person created in God's image. So there is also a justice that I want to be done for that person, you know. I think created in God's image. So there is also a, a justice that I want to be done for that person. You know, I think for God,

it's different. Yeah. How so? Well, I mean, he's like, he's, he's God.

Like he, he, I feel like, I feel like he has the same love for all of us. Like I, even though I, I'm like a believer and like, I feel like I'm just as,

as much as his child as Hitler is. Cause he, he made us both. Like he like. See, I don't even, the Bible does reserve, like even when you use the term child, like God does refer to people who follow him as part of his family, part of his children. Like, what is it in first? Once I go live on the podcast, then all of a sudden I forget all my verses.

But there's a verse where it talks about like, it talks about becoming the children of God through Jesus. It doesn't just say, oh, if you're human, you're a child of God. It's like, you can become a child of God through Jesus. 1 John 3, 1, look at how great a love the Father has given us so that we should be called God's children. He's not just talking about all people here. He's talking about believers. I mean, he goes on to say, the reason the world does not know us, his children, is that it didn't know him. Dear friends, we are God's children now. And what we will be has not yet been revealed.

So, I mean, he's talking about the distinct status of believers as being God's children. Again, not because we did anything like better. It's not like we worked our way up there. It's that we believe in Jesus and through his shed blood, we are able to be forgiven and be called God's children. So, to go back to my earlier point, like I do think there's a general love God has for all people, but a particular love or status that he gives to people that follow Christ. Is that, what do you think? I feel like that's...

You don't have to. No, no, fine. Well, just because I feel like we're saying like, I feel like the thing is like Jesus loves you. And like what we say to like tell people is like Jesus loves you and like Jesus like, are we saying like Jesus does not love non-Christians as much as he loves Christians I think that's what you just said but I think yeah that's good um because he but you're saying he still loves them but just not as much yeah I don't know I don't know if I want to say use it in terms of like

quantiteer um not as much um but but it's a different kind of it's a different kind of love um again if I if I turned to you and said, I love you. And then I turned to somebody who, for instance, just punched you in the face and said, I love you. Is it the exact same kind of love? I mean, I don't, I think those are, one is a general love. Another is a more particular love. I'm trying to think of another way to describe it. another is a more particular love trying to think of another way to describe it well because i feel like that well i mean god god made everyone here but you didn't make the

person who punched me you know like that's what i'm saying but like you know i'm saying like like so because he's creator he has and because he like he knitted us together in his our mother's or whatever like he whatever he actually created us and like yeah spent time and like love yeah

making us hmm let's table this for a little bit yeah I'm not sure what else yeah okay

that's good okay 1st Timothy 2 11 and 13 through 13 let's see. I feel like a lot of people know this verse, but it says, Women should learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them.

Let them listen quietly, for God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. How can God say this and then also say that we're all equal? First of all, does it say woman or women? Plural. Woman. Oh, okay. You said woman. Okay.

I do not allow a woman to teach you. I don't know. Okay, go ahead. There's a passage in John 2 that when they're at the wedding at Cana, do you remember when they go to the wedding? And Jesus creates like a gazillion gallons of wine, water into wine. And like his mom comes up and is talking to him

and he's like, woman? Like in the Greek, it actually says that, but it's not as forthright as like in the English. Woman? Anyway. Oh, I call someone woman? Okay. So do you know that this passage is what I'm on sabbatical actually researching?

Yes. Okay. Okay. So I almost want to say like I'll come back in three years and let you know the right answer to this question. answer to that question. But so, first of all, I think when we talk about, it's highly debated whether this verse is applying to all women and men in every church of every time. Like, there's a lot of people who think that Paul is addressing a certain situation going on in Ephesus, which is where Timothy is pastoring. Yeah. So, it could be that he's talking about specific kinds of women in a specific place that were sort of like dominating men. And Paul's like, no, let's not

do that. That's not right. So that's one way to read the passage. But let's just say, let's just take it the other way of like, no, this is applying to all people. take it the other way of like, no, this is applying to all people. Doesn't mean women are not equal to men if they are not allowed to teach or exercise authority over men. I don't, a lot of people would say that if women are not allowed to do everything in the church, any kind of leadership role in the church that men do, if they're not allowed, then that means they're not being treated as equal. do, if they're not allowed, then that means they're not being treated as equal. I guess the one problem I have with that reasoning is, does the Bible say that like teachers are above non-teachers?

Does it say that leaders are supposed to be higher in status over non-leaders? Like many other passages in the New Testament say that to be a leader is to be a one who serves, one who doesn't lord it over others, one who washes people's feet, you know? So it seems that those sort of hierarchical structures of leader, non-leader, teacher, non-teacher, that was widespread in the ancient world and today, right? I think that the Bible kind of levels the playing field so that, so that even if there were certain roles for men and certain roles for women in the church, that doesn't mean that those different roles would mean that somebody else who's not in that role is not equal to them. Does that make sense? Yes. But it's like, is there anything that woman can do that men are not allowed to do?

Yes, but it's like, is there anything that women can do that men are not allowed to do? I'm just saying, how am I supposed to say it? Women? Women. Women. Is there anything that women are allowed to do that men are like, that you're like, men can't? Like, is it ever flipped around? Yeah. Yeah.

Because you're saying like, is teaching like a higher, whatever. It's like, I mean, like maybe no, but then what can't men do? Right, right, right, right. right whatever it's like i mean like maybe maybe no but then what is what what can't men do right right right right no it's good um give birth okay but that's like sometimes no but i mean i think that that giving birth to children is one of the most unique and powerful ways in which humans reflect God. Like God as creator creates life and he has selected women to be the most clearest mirror to that activity of God by giving birth to children. And I know in our society, it's looked down upon because I think the whole thing is just kind of flipped around. Like we end up using male behaviors and stuff as like the standard. And it's like, okay, well, only women give birth to children.

And it's like sometimes that's looked down upon as being demeaning because it's like you have this male standard of, oh, no. Because it's a female-only thing, therefore it's, you know, looked down upon. And then people are like, you know, women are more than just, you know, giving birth to children. Well, I agree with that, obviously, but like, let's not downplay one of the most amazing, miraculous things that God has entrusted to half of humanity, women only. So yeah, it's a little bit off the topic because you're talking about like like not biological functions, but like, you know, roles in society. And I mean, I think the answer would be no. Like, I think that within the church, again, assuming I'm not even saying this is the right way to read this passage.

Okay. But it would be men can serve in all areas. Women can only serve in certain areas. And that sounds like totally like it's not equal then? Yeah. Yeah. Do you not find that? Well, I don't think it has to be concluded that women are therefore not equal.

It depends on what you mean by equal too, like equal in value. Well, no. I don't think that would mean that women aren't equal in value because, again, I don't think just leaders have higher value than, than non-leaders according to a Christian worldview. Again, leaders are servants. They watch over the spiritual direction of the church. Well, however you want to frame, you know, leadership. But I think the Bible just does not really elevate leaders in this kind of prestigious role so that if you're a leader,

you have a higher status or you're better than or more powerful than or the church is, you know, way more dependent upon leaders. Like, I just don't think the Bible talks about leaders in such glowing terms like that. But yeah. So equal. Yeah. It does depend on what you mean by equal. Yeah. Equal and privilege, I guess. Yeah. Because, I mean, like you just said, men can do. What did you say? Men can do.

There's nothing closed off for men in the church, but there are certain things closed off for women. But how do you not find that? I get it. I'm not even saying I'm saying like. Yeah, in one sense it's not equal that it's not like. I get it. I'm not even saying I'm saying like. Yeah. In one sense, it's not equal because it's by definition, certain things are not available to women in the church. But I wouldn't want to say it's, it means women are less, less valued, less necessary, less, less gifted, less whatever.

You're saying that? No, I'm saying it wouldn't necessarily mean that. Oh. So there is an inequality because certain church roles would be off limits for women, but that wouldn't mean that they're any less valuable. Going back to the giving birth analogy, like, does that mean men and women aren't equal because women do one of the most divine like things that humans are doing? Well, yeah, that's in a sense it's unequal because there's certain things men can never do,

but it's not unequal in the sense that that makes women more valuable than men. We are both valued in the eyes of God, even if we're given different roles in society. Okay. So it really depends on what you mean by equal, I think. Okay. Yeah. All right. That makes sense. But I'll tell you the right answer in four years. Okay. Sounds good. I'll read your book. Okay. First Samuel 16. The choosing of David. Yes, it is the choosing of David. In verse two, it says, but Samuel, well, I mean, you kind of just like know the whole passage. Do you know? Okay.

But it says, but Samuel asked, how do I do that? If Saul hears about it, he will kill me. And God said, take a heifer with you. The Lord replied and say that you have come to make a sacrifice of the Lord. So like he was going to choose, you know, like choose the king. But God said, just say, just say that, that you're making a sacrifice for the Lord. Isn't, is that not like, is, is God giving Samuel a reason to lie? Wait, is this chapter 16?

Yeah. How long are you going to fill in? Because he's like, he said that Saul is going to kill him if he finds out that he's choosing the new king. But God's like, well, just say this. Is that not like God giving him a reason to like to lie? Well, he is going to actually make the sacrifice. Yeah, but that's not what he's there to do. He's not going there to make the sacrifice.

That's interesting. I never thought about it like that. Well, I think we would have to start with the assumption that God's not. Well, let's not start with any assumptions. Let's just look at the passage. Well, let's not start with any assumptions. Let's just look at the passage. I mean, technically, he does give the sacrifice and he invites Jesse to sacrifice with him. I don't think it's necessarily a lie if you don't tell Saul everything that you're doing at that point.

you're doing at that point. Like, I mean, the whole thing is like in the context, you know, Saul's king, God has now rejected Saul, even though he's still going to be technically king over the country. He's going to be king all the way up until he dies in chapter 31, the end of the book. And yet we have this private anointing of David as the one who will end up becoming the next king. So just because God is sort of helping Samuel go behind Saul's back and anointing David, I don't think that's necessarily a lie. Isn't like not telling the full truth a form of a lie? Is that what we told you? For you, yes. For Samuel, no.

Okay. For you, yes. For you, yes. For Samuel, no. For Samuel, okay. Yeah, I mean, I wonder if it's also, you know, Saul is a wicked king. David is God's anointed. Well, you have an example of Rahab in Joshua lying. When people, she, sorry, the Israelites were going in to conquer the land.

And then we had a couple, some Hebrew spies that went in. And Rahab took them into their home. And the people came to her house and were like, dude, are you hiding, you know, some Hebrews here? And she said, no. She like, she lied to the people. And then later in the book of Hebrews, in Hebrews 11, she's like commended for that. Like in faith, she lied basically.

So is there such thing as – Or you have examples during the Holocaust of people hiding Jews so they wouldn't be killed and they would lie to the authorities. So, yeah, I mean, this is a big ethical kind of debate. Like is there ever a time for the lesser of two evils like lying's wrong but there might be certain circumstances where lying given the other options is actually the greater good or lesser of the two evils is there such thing as righteous lying i think i mean again ray rayhab it pretty clearly says she lied and was commended for it. So, yeah.

I'm down with that. Okay. No, no, no. Well, man. I can say my line is righteous. But not until you're 18 and out of the house. Okay. You're not allowed to do the righteous line.

Okay. Okay. There are four passages. I don't know. Do know if do i read them off to you just read the question and then okay yeah well how because they're all about how god said sends like harmful spirits yeah and stuff how can a good god have power over evil spirits okay Okay. So you have one in, uh, first Kings 22, you have one in, uh, well,

first Samuel 16, first Samuel 16, 14, first Samuel 18, 10, first Samuel 19, nine and judges nine 23. Oh,

and then you also have one in second Kings. Well, it's a, it's a different phrase. It's like a, a deceitful spirit. Yeah. There's different interpretations of this.

Um, the one in second Kings is interesting because it's a picture of like the divine, they call it the divine council where like God is there, a bunch of angels are there, and they're all deciding what to do. Should we read it? Let's do it. Okay. Yeah, 1 Kings 22, we'll start in 19.

This is a prophet, Micaiah, I think he's a prophet, says, Hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on his throne and the whole heavenly host. That's like council, like a bunch of typically heavenly host refers like angels. They were standing by him at his right hand and at his left hand. And the Lord said, who will entice Ahab to march up and fall at remote Gilead? Ahab's like a wicked king that God wants to take out. So one was saying this and another was saying that, like the angels are kind of like talking to each other, like, oh, what do you think? You know, they're discussing what to do. And then a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, I will entice him. And the Lord

said, how? And he said, the angel, the spirit, I will go and become a lying spirit in the mouth of all of his prophets. Here's another, I'm just relates to your other question, a lying spirit. And then he said, God says, you will certainly entice him and prevail. Go and do that. See, you see, the Lord has put a lying spirit into the mouth of all these prophets of yours. And the Lord has pronounced disaster against you. I mean, I'm just a big fan of beginning with what the Bible says. And if it creates kind of tension in our worldview, then so be it. Rather than say, well, I can't actually mean that.

I don't know, I just said it. The spirit came forward. Some people say, well, I can't actually mean that. I don't know. I just said. Yeah. The spirit came forward. So there's going to be lines. Some people say, well, this must have been like a demon and an evil angel or something. But then what? They're just all hanging out together in the heavenly living room together. That's a weird picture, you know? Yeah.

So I think that, yeah, this is God allowing the spirit to go to a false prophet and give them a line, like enticing them to lie so that Ahab would end up being taken out. So the other passages you read, I believe the phrase is evil spirit. Mine says harmful spirit. Harmful spirit. Okay. It's the Hebrew word can mean harmful could be an evil can mean destruction um i think the best way to understand that those verses is a it's a spirit that causes destruction not a spirit that does morally evil things okay Do you see this distinction? Um, like the, and the Hebrew word is like,

it means many different things depending on the context. I forgot the actual Hebrew word, but like there's a verse in Amos, Amos 3, 6, I think that says, if evil, same word, falls upon a city, has not the Lord done that? Like the Lord is responsible for that. But it's talking about like, if a city is destroyed, God is sort the Lord done that. Like the Lord is responsible for that. But it's talking about like if a city is destroyed, God is sort of sovereign over that. It's not talking about the Lord being the cause of somebody doing moral evil, coming into adultery, rape or whatever. It's just talking about the disaster that kind of falls upon the city. So I think in those passages, it's talking about a good angel or a good spirit that is causing harm to happen as a form of judgment.

Like you could think of like Sodom and Gomorrah, you know, were horribly wicked. God gave them time to repent. Finally, God destroyed the cities. I think, I mean, the spirit causing destruction doesn't describe Sodom and Gomorrah, but I feel like that's a situation where it very well could have been. Like a spirit could have been the responsible for causing that destruction on Sodom and Gomorrah. So God used a spirit in the case of 1 Samuel 16 to cause the downfall of Saul as a form of judgment, because Saul was a wicked king. So he does have like power or he does have control over evil spirits.

Again, I think the spirit itself is a good spirit doing, causing destruction to happen as a form of judgment. And the reason you think that is because of that verse? All those verses, well, the Hebrew phrase, when it says evil spirit, spirit of destruction, like it, it could be described, it could be describing the, how do I say it? The, um, it could be describing the actual spirit or what the spirit does. So it could be a good spirit causing destruction, or it could be an evil spirit. The phrase could go either way. And I'm saying it makes best sense for it to be a good spirit that is causing destruction as a form of God's judgment.

Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cause yeah. And all these verses I was like, yeah.

Well in verse 23 or it's, um, first Samuel 16, 23. Okay. It said, or it's um first samuel 16 23 okay it said and whenever the tormenting spirit from god troubled saul david would play the harp then saul would feel better and the tormenting spirit would go away what is that like yeah is it like they go away with music? Yeah. Well, I think this seems to be kind of almost like some kind of psychological oppression. Like, whenever a spirit from God troubled Saul, David would pick up his lyre and play, and Saul would then be relieved, feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him.

It's almost like a psychological tormenting. Like, he just, like, is oppressed with, like, like tons of anxiety or just we don't really know exactly but i mean um yeah i guess in this case the music might feel better just like it would if we were experiencing some kind of like depression or a headache or hyper anxiety there might be some things we can do to soothe that i guess i don't know i never really thought about that yeah and wait why did god send like there's i think there's there's three times when it's when it like mentions like where'd you find all this too i mean the bible i know but are you looking up like how do you know there's four

references to the evil spirit because my bible has oh okay okay yeah like why there was yeah there's well there's three references when when it says God sent it to Saul. Why did God send so many tormenting spirits to Saul? Saul is a really, really wicked king. And so God is, it's one way in which God like began to tear down Saul, like bring his downfall, you know? So again, it's kind of like, I would say a form of judgment, a form of God working out his plan to get rid of Saul, you know? All right. Sounds a little harsh, but I mean,

you see that all throughout scripture, God doing various things to take down evil rulers or, you know. Yeah. All right. I don't know if I'd recommend coffee with chips and salsa. I don't think I'd recommend chips and salsa in the morning. Oh, I would. No. These are the best chips and salsa in the morning. Oh, I would. No.

These are the best chips. Are these Juanitas? Oh, my gosh. Yes. So good. All right. We got some paste salsa. Paste.

Remember that restaurant I went to? They just dubbed paste in the bowl. That was the worst. They wasn't always like that. Homemade salsa dubs paste in the bowl. Yeah, we get chips and salsa and like easily you could tell it was just paste picante poured in the bowl. It's terrible.

Nope. It was horrible. Never going back there. Okay. I, maybe you'll know the verse that says God won't give us temptations. We can't like overcome. First Corinthians 10,

13. Oh yeah. The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience and God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, He will show you a way so that you can endure. But like, isn't us giving into temptations and not being able to get through it? I think what it's saying is, yeah, I hear what you're saying.

I think, I mean, obviously there's temptations and we give in and stuff. I think there's, we can never say like, well, it was impossible for me to not give into the temptation. Like God's saying there's always a way to get to overcome the temptation, like a way of escape. Like we're never in a sort of moral cul-de-sac or like, you know, like a dead end where it's like, there's no possible way to not sin here. I think what it's saying. All right. Yeah. Sometimes it feels like the temptation is way too strong, right?

Do you believe that if a Christian commits suicide, but still loves God, do they go to heaven? Yes. Do? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, there's, I mean, so suicide would be, what's wrong with suicide? It's you're killing a human life. Even if it's your own life, it's still a human life.

Yeah. Yeah, you're murdering yourself, basically. It's a sin, right? But if somebody commits a sin, that doesn't mean all of a sudden you're like excluded from the kingdom. So yeah, there's no, there's nothing in the Bible that says that there's certain. I mean, the only time the Bible ever talks about a kind of sin that can be not forgiven is the unforgivable sin that Jesus says, you know, God will forgive all sins, but not the, what is it? Blasphemy in the Holy Spirit, which that's another thing. But there's nothing in the Bible that says that, you know, if you,

as long as you're walking to the Lord, you're faithful, you believe in Jesus and everything else. And you do this one thing at the end. Now you're, you're out. Like that's, that's not how it works. Yeah. And suicide also, I mean, goodness. I mean, okay. So we technically called it murder, but I mean, it's category. Even if it is in that, yeah, taking the human life would be murder. But I mean, think about the profound like situation that somebody would have to be in to actually go to that point. Like I think God would have a lot of sympathy for the situation

and be grieved that the person took their life. But I mean, I think it'd be different than just going out and murdering somebody. Like the whole situation is radically different. Yeah. Okay. Psalms 45, 11 says, For your royal husband delights in your beauty. Honor him, for he is your Lord.

Talking about a king, not just any husband. For your royal husband? Yeah, it's talking about the king's marriage, right? Yeah. Yeah, so what's your, I think I know what you're going on. It's just like, it's always related to our house, our husband, our Lord. Yeah, so I mean, it's talking about a king. It's specifically a king. So I mean, in a sense. our Lord? Yeah. So, I mean, it's talking about a king. It's specifically a king.

So, I mean, in a sense. But still. Yeah. I'm not, I mean, I'm not totally not familiar. I mean, I'm vaguely aware of this psalm, but I haven't studied it forever or ever, actually. I don't know if I've ever actually studied this psalm. You know, you don't have to call your husband your Lord. Okay.

How's that? No. If that's what husband, your Lord. Okay. How's that? No. If that's what you're worried about. Let's do one more. You got one more? We got time for one more. Let me go look. Okay.

Um, Philippians 1 15. About the people preaching Christ falsely or whatever. It says, it's true that some are preaching out of jealousy and rivalry, but others preach about Christ with pure motives. What does it mean to preach the Lord out of jealousy and rivalry? Mine says envy and strife. What does it mean? What does that look like?

I never thought about specifically what kinds of preachers these are. What would be an example of somebody doing that? Yeah, what would that look like? Mine says envy and strife. Yours says jealousy and rivalry. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, envy and jealousy are kind of the same thing.

Rivalry, strife, envy. You do have like, Paul seemed to be dealing in several of his letters with like people who are calling themselves apostles or super apostles, people that were kind of like using Christianity as a way to like gain money or get power over people. And so I would say it's probably in that kind of category. I could think of today, I mean, certain maybe branches of certain churches that might, like the leader of the church might be just building a platform off of being envious of somebody else that is as a bigger, more powerful church or whatever. And they're kind of driven out of jealousy to want to, you know, like their whole ministry is to really build some platform for themselves, you know, or it could be like super combative.

Like they're just like really against all other branches of Christianity and they're trying to build their own little kingdom, something like that. I don't know if that's exactly what's going on here, but yeah, it could be something like that. Yeah. Yep. I have one more. Okay. What is your position or your view or opinion on predestination? Oh gosh. Well, I mean, there's lots of different perspectives on that.

So like, does God, or yeah, expand on the question. Well, like, yeah, I do think God predestines. So, yes, God predestines because, I mean, the Bible says that several passages that God has preordained, you know, in love, this is Ephesians 1, 4 and 5, in love, He predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ for Himself. The question is kind of like, how does God predestined event, how has it worked out? Is it, you know, one view would see, you know, God, because he's all knowing, we kind of know ahead of time who's going to choose to follow Jesus, right? And then God's like, okay, I am predestining that person to be adopted through Jesus Christ because he knows they're going to choose him. Other people say, no, the only reason why they chose him is because they were predestined.

So when you talk about like predestination, clearly the Bible uses that language to describe certain events in the world, you know, the salvation of believers. But it's like, it's the question is what is the cause and what is the result? Is it God's predestining power is the cause of our belief or is it our belief that's the cause of God's predestining power? Yep. Yep. And some people say it's just a mystery. It's kind of like it's both somehow and we don't really know how it works out.

And there's all kinds of other views even, even within that. So honestly, so I, um, back way back when I was really wrestling with this question, I sort of landed more on the side of we believe because God predestined us. Like God's predestination is the cause of our belief. But I haven't looked at it in years. I guess that's where I would kind of like very, very with an open hand land. But I would not defend that view because I just, I would need to go back and really study it again. I mean,

a lot's changed in my theological journey in the last 15 years. That should be your next book. Uh, it's not really into, I don't know. It's, it's, uh,

I would, I do think there's probably going to be a lot more mystery in that question than I used to think. I would, that's where I would say, I would probably say pretty strongly. Like, I think there's a lot going mystery in that question than I used to think. That's where I would say, I would probably say pretty strongly. Like I think there's a lot going on with that that we're just not going to understand

super clearly. So what do you think? What's your view? Oh, I don't have a view. That's why I was asking you. All right. Is that it? All right.

You want to say anything to the audience before we go out? Nope. Nope? No final words? Thanks for watching the vlog. It's not a vlog. Please comment below.

There's no way to comment. Oh, it is. Okay, yeah. The YouTube version. Also subscribe. Subscribe. Smash that like button. Smash that like button.

All right. Thanks for listening to Theology in a Raw. This has been Josie and her dad. It's been real. In the basement eating chips and salsa

and coffee with our dog all right yeah over and out This show is part of the Converge Podcast Network.