Theology in the Raw - S8 Ep880: #880 - A Transman’s Unexpected Thoughts on Trans* Related Issues: Scott Newgent

Episode Date: July 1, 2021

Scott is a fully transitioned 48 year old FtM transman with 3 teenage kids, and he’s pretty fired up about how the medical industry has failed our trans*-identified kids. Scott holds some pretty unpredictable views. Though he’s a transman, he believes that trans*-identified kids are in no position to transition, and that parents of trans* kids should not use their pronouns or do anything that would encourage their transition. In fact, Scott is very critical of several aspects of trans* ideologies and is passionate about the truth of human nature and the medical pros and cons about transitioning.  Scott is the founder and president of Trans Rational Educational Voices (https://www.trevoices.com), an organization aimed at helping to stop medical transitioning for trans* identified kids (among other things).  Support Preston Support Preston by going to patreon.com Venmo: @Preston-Sprinkle-1 Connect with Preston Twitter | @PrestonSprinkle Instagram | @preston.sprinkle Youtube | Preston Sprinkle Check out his website prestonsprinkle.com If you enjoy the podcast, be sure to leave a review.

Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode of Theology in the Raw. I have on the show today a new friend by the name of Scott Nugent. Scott Nugent is a 48-year-old trans man who transitioned at the age of 42. He's the parent of three daughters, and he's the leader and founder of an organization called Trans Rational Educational Voices. The subtitle of TRE Voices is Stop Childhood Medical Transition, Make Trans Healthcare Safe. Time to start screaming, Scott says. And he does scream a few times on this podcast episode. I just recently came across Scott's work. I was doing some research on the question of whether parents should use the pronouns that their trans-identified child or teenager wants them to use. And I've been listening

to an array of different opinions on that question. And Scott, as a trans man, as a parent, Transman, as a parent, says we should absolutely not use the pronouns of our trans-identified kid because he believes trans kids should not, flat out, should not transition. If an adult, after their brain's fully developed, wants to transition, then fine, I'll support you in that. But I am not going to let a kid transition. I'm going to do everything I can to stop that. So Scott is one of many adult trans people who I've come across that has, that's just really concerned, really. I mean, deeply concerned with some of the stuff going on with trans-identified teenagers.

And Scott is a very passionate person, a very honest person, a very colorful person. Scott doesn't have like a religious identity. Okay. So you'll hear a lot of colorful language. Scott says, Hey, I know this is a Christian podcast. We were talking offline. And he's like, I can't not swear as I'm telling my viewpoint. And I said, Hey, look, I don't require non-Christians act like Christians. So you be you, I'll be me, and we'll have a wonderful conversation. And I think we had a wonderful conversation, but it's a very politically incorrect, unorthodox kind of conversation. So I hope you're okay with that. And you should be.

This is Theology in the Raw. For those who are new listening to the show, this is Theology in the Raw. We don't shy away from hard opinions, hard topics, or alternative viewpoints. So yeah, it is what it is. Oh, you're in for a treat. You're in for a challenging episode. If you want to support this show, you can go to patreon.com forward slash Theology in the Raw and support the work that we're doing at Theology in the Raw.

Support the show for as little as five bucks a month. Theology in the Raw and support the work that we're doing at Theology in the Raw. Support the show for as little as five bucks a month. And or please do leave a review and or share this and other episodes that you have found helpful. Thank you so much to those of you who are supporting the show. Really appreciate you keeping this podcast going. So without further ado, let's get to know the one and only, the invigorating Scott Nugent. Hi, friends. Welcome back to another episode of Theology in the Raw. I'm here with Scott Nugent, who I have never met. So we've known each other for about 90 seconds, I think, Scott,

at least through Skype. We've corresponded through email. We have a couple, I think, mutual friends or acquaintances. So I came across, Scott, your stuff. It was actually several months ago in a tweet thread. I didn't tell you this through email, but it was in response to, I think, something Andrew Sullivan posted. I think he had a dialogue with a trans

woman, I think. It was a really great exchange. I thought it was invigorating, forthright, kind. I think I saw your name come up, so I started Googling it a little bit. I'm like, whoa, this person seems really fascinating. And then more recently, I watched your videos on parents with trans kids and pronouns and that whole thing. And I thought your advice was just really helpful.

And I'm just really wrestling with that. And I do want to get into that in a second. But why don't we first have you just tell your story? You're probably sick of sharing it. But just so our audience can get to know who you are and where you're coming from. All right. Well, I'm 48. My name's Scott Nugent. I'm a trans man.

I medically transitioned around 42. During that process, I had eight surgeries. I had an infection for over 17 months. I was on 19 rounds of antibiotics, IV antibiotics. And during that time, I mean, I read trying to save my own life, right? And during that process, I understood that medical transitioning is very, very experimental. I went from ER to ER for doctors to try to figure out what was wrong with me. They either sincerely didn't know or didn't want to help me kind of a thing. And it was so bad. And I tell people this because I think

you can understand this as a parent. I mean, I had letters to my kids until all three of them until they were like 40 years old, like what I would want to say to them at that age, kind of a thing. And then they figured out what was wrong with me. After I had a pulmonary embolism that induced a stress heart attack, I had arm reconstruction surgery. I mean, the list can just go on and on and on and on. During that process, I lost everything that I'd ever worked for. I was a sales executive. I was always pretty successful. I lost my house, my wife, my car. I mean, I still don't have a car kind of a basement. I mean, I lost absolutely everything. And I have to tell you that when a doctor finally figured out what was wrong with me, that was the worst day of my life. Wow. Because I had lost everything, right? Yeah.

You know, the doctor finally said, you're going to be okay. And I went, well, what the fuck do I do now? Yeah. You know, everything I worked for until I was 46, 47 years old is gone. Um, so during that process, I kind of flipped on Twitter and I saw what they were doing to children and I had no idea. And here's the thing that a lot of people don't realize is most trans adults don't truly know what's going on in society. They're trying to live their life.

A lot of them are in what's called stealth. They don't want to be out. And so they don't know. But the deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper I got into this, I went, this is nuts. I mean, all the investigation I did with trying to save my own life and then seeing people having such a hard time with, with conveying that, that problem. I talked with a woman by the name of Barbara Kay. She's a journalist. And I said to her very, very openly, I said, why are we doing this to kids? And she said something to me that I'll never forget. It was just a real short little thing. She goes, because people like you won't talk.

Wow. So I sat on that for about three months, and then I called Barbara up, and I said, you ready to see a tornado? Wow. So your passion, and from the little I read on your watch, it does seem like a passion. Us Christians might call it a calling. It's really with, I will say

trans identified kids and the, and the, and the, um, I'm just trying to be really careful with language just so you know. So if I hesitate, I'm just trying to find the best word, but maybe the, the rush that it seems like they are being put through towards social medical hormonal transitioning. And you're speaking from, obviously, experience. Would that be a good way to capture it? Like this comes out of your own kind of journey, and then you're seeing kids who can't, right? I mean, can we say that? That like a 14-, 15-, 16-year-old kid does not have the prefrontal cortex.

Like they're not in a place where they can actually consider all of the pros and cons. Like the whole idea of informed consent is a little bit of an impossibility when you're dealing with a teenager, let alone a parent who might be told, hey, do you want an alive son or a dead daughter? Those are your two options. And then they're like, well, gosh, I'd rather have a kid who's alive than not. What are you supposed to say to that as a parent? Well, I don't know. Let me get back to you on that. Is that an overstat? Well, I don't know. Let me get back on that.

Is that an overstatement? Because I mean, I hear that a lot. Is that really as well known as it seems like it is, that kind of binary option that parents are being given? Yeah. And here's the thing. The majority of people that are saying that believe that. Okay. that are saying that believe that. Um, and so I don't think, I think there's very few evil people in the world. I think most people are molded with their life, their personality, their DNA, their, you know, experiences. Um, but there's very few people that go, you know what? I really get off on hurting people. So I, and that's a problem, right? And so they're trying to convey it as love. That's another problem. Um, but the fact is, and we're talking about facts. The fact is, is that there's only one long term study done on medically transitioned people.

And it was done in Sweden and it was done for 30 years in 1970 to 2003. And here's what they found. And it correlates with all the trans people I know as well. And here's what they found. And it correlates with all the trans people I know as well. There is kind of a Christmas present phase, you know, in the beginning, you know, society tells you or the doctor tells you, you know what, this is going to make you fit. And for somebody that doesn't fit, being a lesbian for 43 years, always being on the outside of things, never really fitting into the gay community because, you know, I just, you know, so I never fit. never really fitting into the gate because I would, you know, I just, you know, so I never fit. So a doctor told me, Hey, you know what? Uh, you're probably intersex. We don't, we don't need to do the tests. We'll just go ahead and do this. I had a therapist, you know, just kind of push me in that direction. And so I thought, Hey, this is gonna, you know, this is going to help me. Um, and then it starts to go on where you start to get on hormones and then you have surgery after

surgery. And every time you get to that place where you start to get on hormones and then you have surgery after surgery. And every time you get to that place where you kind of look left and right and go, well, I didn't fix a fucking thing. There's another step. And then there's another step until you're basically done, which is about seven to 10 years. And then you kind of look left and right again and go, well, I didn't fucking fix a thing. And that at that point, reality comes in. And so when reality comes in and there's no more presence to get, you've opened all your presence and you can sit down and say, look at what I did. Did I need to do it? And did it help? And so at seven to 10 years is when transgender people are the most or have the most suicidal ideation.

It's not before medically transitioning, unfortunately. I mean, fortunately, it's not. So we're talking about children who haven't developed seeing around corners and they just can't. It's not that they're unintelligent or they're making bad decisions with the information that they're given. Their brain hasn't completely developed yet. And so they're going to start a process that doesn't understand what happens until you get to seven years. Also, those studies about kids being suicidal. I mean, take a look at them. They're short term.

kids being suicidal. I mean, take a look at them. They're short term. They don't follow transgender people. Nobody follow transgender people because after we transition, you know, the money's already done. Pharma already has it. I need to be on pharmaceuticals for the rest of my life. Why would anybody want to follow me or follow people like me? So it's a misconception that kids who have gender dysphoria get better when they medically transition. They do not. They don't understand what happens with it and that it certainly doesn't fix suicidal ideation. I don't understand why somebody that has a child that's suicidal,

you take them to a mental hospital and you drop them off and you say, we're going to work on the suicidal ideation. If you can't handle life now, there's no way in hell you're going to be able to handle it when you medically transition because it is brutal. So you are the worst person to medically transition. Does that make sense? So you're saying there's already an unhealthiness, perhaps even other co-occurring mental health issues. I mean, the studies are pretty clear on that, especially with younger teenagers today. They're often dealing with two, three, four, five other mental health issues that aren't really being addressed. trans or trans, don't you dare blame this on autism or OCD or ADHD or past trauma or something, which I think isn't helpful when we're not allowed. And I'm not saying every context is like this, but from what I've read and talked to people in some contexts, trying to explore those

bio-psycho-social kind of issues, like I know Ken Zucker and others have advocated for that. And he got fired for being a conversion therapist because he says, I don't know, bio-psycho-social kind of issues. I know Ken Zucker and others have advocated for that. And he got fired for being a conversion therapist because he says, I don't know, let's explore some other things that might be going on here. I'm sorry, I'm jumping around. So you said something that I've heard other people say anecdotally that, yes, if any human injects high levels of testosterone, you're going to feel amazing for about six months to a year, maybe two years. But I've heard that seven to 10 year mark exactly. I've heard a lot of people independently say that same thing. Are you saying that, and is this anecdotal or does the data confirm this or both, that seven to 10 years after transition, there's a high level of regret,

whether they did that, maybe they don't detransition. Maybe nobody knows there's regret. Maybe they don't tell anybody to me, maybe they do. But you're saying, is that pretty, would you say that's a pretty high number seven to 10 years after? Well, you can read the study for yourself. And unfortunately, people in, in, in activism are not reading. They're reading headlines. We only have one long-term study, and that's what it says. Now, with me running a trans organization, talking to hundreds of trans, I'm all about truth. I really, really am. And I have met a couple of people who have medically transitioned where it has literally saved their life. I mean, I've got a buck angel, you know,

but not very many. And I would say 95% of people that transition, and this is my own numbers, um, regret some farm, if not all of medical transition, then you have the crazies, which are like the 3%. And then you have the 2%. They're like the three percent and then you have the two percent they're like wow this really did save my life it really did save my life and so for something like that that causes and here's what other people don't realize is that medical transitioning

has huge huge huge medical complications huge um it induces 12% higher chance of psychosis with girls. It causes bone damage for boys. We have 22-year-olds that have the size of lungs the size of a 12-year-old because they paused puberty. We have people that can't have kids. We have, we have kids right now at 22 going, well, listen, uh, I cut my dating pool by 10% or, you know, down by 90%. I have early onset osteoporosis. I've got heart issues. Uh, my mental health is terrible. I've shortened my life by 12 years. I can't have children. And then on top of this, I was a straight girl. Now I have to live my life as a, as a gay man, looking like a gay man and dealing with this when I really didn't have to. So now I'm going to fucking kill myself. And I dealt with that. And I say in podcasts, that is not coming from me. That was from a suicide letter that I got that this trans woman wrote to his parents and said, why did you let me do this? I was just a kid.

several friends who are have detransitioned or have some level of regret in their early 20s i mean they fit that um that kind of rapid onset profile where there was a social environment that played some role they would say a very significant role in the their trans identity can i stop you with that real fast yeah i'm i'm so tired of people shying away from reality. Preston, that's reality. Here's the fucking reality. We have middle school kids at the time that they want to fit in the most. I mean, you would do anything. At 12 years old, if you don't fit in and somebody says, do this and you fit in, all you have to do is cut off your leg. We would have thousands of kids in emergency rooms with their legs cut off going, I'm going to fit in, I'm going to fit in. All you have to do is cut off your leg. We would have thousands of kids in emergency rooms with their legs cut off going, I'm going to fit in. I'm going to fit in. We have kids that have autism. We have homosexual kids. We have kids that don't belong that are quirky. We have gifted kids. We have autistic kids. We have kids that have bad backgrounds, all the people that would like to jump over their life and fit in. We're saying that you can fit in and we're wondering why they're freaking out because you're going to take

out basically that, you know, you're not going to fit. You know, if you don't medically transition, you're not going to fit. So we have kids that don't have fully fused brains. They can't see around the corner. They don't know what's coming, but we're going to allow them to do something that helps very few people. But it is about money is it's all it comes down to. There is not a huge influx of love to trans people. It, no, that hasn't happened. What has happened is that each child that they convince is transgender, it puts into the pharmaceuticals $1.3 million in a lifetime in a time where Netflix is cutting people's throats for trying to get a dollar more a month, $2 more a month. That's a business model,

right? Everybody wants to know how much money they're going to make a month. This is the ultimate, how much money are we going to make this month? I mean, it is, it's crazy. So that, to me, that does sound kind of evil there. Because you said earlier, like some people, they don't, they're not ill intended. They're trying to do the right thing. This is the only right thing they've been told to do. But what you identified as maybe a deeper source, it is a little more sinister. I mean, if somebody is like, hey, I know this is experimental, but man, we can make a lot of money off this experiment on a kid. To me, it's hard for me to say, well, your motivations are at least good. Who's driving that? These aren't the counselors on the front lines. These are people

deep, deep in the machine. Or how would you explain that? Yeah. And again, I think that there's even people that are doing that don't really understand. But I'm going to do something for you. I'm going to take you on a journey here. And then you tell me at the end of this, if good or bad people would turn this down. There was a study in the UK in 2008 that went from 2008 to 2018 on gender dysphoric kids, the increase of kids claiming to be trans grew 4,033%. And you can find all this stuff on my website, trevoices.com. It increased by 4,000. Now that alone, I mean, if I was selling something, that alone is a pretty big number, right? But it's puking.

You don't understand the relevance of it. So what does 4,033% mean? Here's what it means. If I take that number and the population of kids over the UK in that time frame that are claiming to be trans, that timeframe that are claiming to be trans. And I, I superimpose those numbers in Australia, in Europe, in North America, Canada, the United States, not even the whole country. What will our society look like in 20 years? In 20 years, 18 to 23% of the population will be trans at $1.3 million per lifetime without surgery. So you tell me when society or business, I'm sorry, business said, we're not going to do that. On top of all this money that's coming in, they're placing it behind homosexuality. Now, my belief

is that people are born homosexual. I really sincerely believe that there's no conversion therapy that's successful. It backfires. Some people find peace in religion and living that life. That's fine. But those attractions don't go away. And that's totally up to them. And I, go away. And that's totally up to them. And I, you know, go for it. But conversion therapy has never helped for homosexuality. Gender dysphoria has an 83% rate of kids coming to terms with that. So one is homosexual, which let's say a 14 year old girl says that she's a lesbian. And then lo and behold, at 25, she marries a man. What's the significant issue with that other than being kind of embarrassed or you know what, she just kind of went through a process. Then we take a 14 year old that said that they're trans. And then we look at them at 24. And we go down that list. So we're going to accept transgenderism at a rapid, rapid rate because of love? Because if we loved people,

we would say, you know what? There are gay people. They deserve the same rights. I might not agree with them and that's okay. But that is what it is. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. I know. Absolutely. And I know you haven't read my book, but I've got all these statistics that you cited, including the Dine study, the Dutch study from 2013 and all those stats. In fact, the stat I read was over 5,000% of females have increased attending gender clinics at Tavistock Center in the last 10 to 12 years. And that's similar to any Western country, New Zealand, America, Canada, Australia, Finland, and many others. So going back, because I appreciate your,

not really pushbacks, I think we're on the same page, but you didn't appreciate that I was kind of maybe coddling it too much. If I can- You don't, you can't coddle that. I'm sorry, but all your listeners cannot coddle that. But I want, but all your listeners cannot coddle that.

But I want to make it clear. I want to make it clear what you're saying. So there's this, let me say, possibility that social contagion is playing some role. You're saying it's a two plus two equals four fact. And we have our head in the sands. We're not loving people if we don't acknowledge that. Because in some circles I run, I run in many different circles. If you mentioned social contagion, people get like, whoa, I don't know. Like, can you say that? And it's like, ah, that's not, people get really upset about that. You're saying we need to, well, I don't want to put your words in their mouths. You're saying flat out much, 99% of what's going on is social contagion. How would you frame

trans identities in teenagers? Absolutely. And we're dealing with, and here's the thing is we're dealing with a billion dollar industry. We're dealing with, uh, pharmaceuticals like Lupron, uh, which, which is the hormone blocker, right? Right. Hormone blocker. Uh, well, this company in 2003 was sued by the U S government and deemed a criminal enterprise for, you know, hiding risks, um, basically lying in publications, that kind of stuff. They paid $874 million to the U.S. government like that. Like that. And this is the company that's saying hormone blockers are safe. But if you go deeper, you realize that it's not FDA approved to give to kids with gender dysphoria.

There is no long-term study on what happens to these kids. Lupron has the $10 million, trust me, to run that study. The problem is, is that if they run that study, there's no fucking doctor in the world that would say, I'm going to sign that. And medical transitioning would stop like that. Wow. Would absolutely stop like that. And so when you put all that stuff together, as a trans man, as a, as a, you know, a parent that has kids at this age, as somebody that has done this, as somebody that has researched, as somebody that has read suicide notes, as somebody that has talked to hundreds of trans, as somebody that's running a trans organization, you cannot not say anything.

Because these kids need us to adult better. And if somebody wants to think that you're a bigot, then fuck them. Because if you're a true Christian, you're going to stand up and say, no, I don't agree with that. And me being a Christian doesn't mean anything. So let's take that out of the conversation and let's talk about the facts. And here are the facts. What would you say? There's, I imagine, a lot of parents and educators listening who are like, I think I agree with everything Scott's saying, but what do I do? I'm in a public school system where I can't, if I don't do anything but affirm this student, I'm fired and probably maybe got a lawsuit slapped on me. Our parents saying, if I say anything that challenges my 15-year-old's perspective, I could lose custody. saying if I say anything that challenges my 15 year old's perspective, I could lose custody.

Like, so what do I, I agree with what you're just saying, but how do I, how can I, how can I respond in a way that's going to be helpful? What advice would you give? Well, I understand that Preston, here's the deal. We're dealing with a billion dollar industry that has marketed this incredibly. They've marketed it behind homosexuality. They have basically, well, give you an idea, Stonewall, which is the LGBT in the UK. In 2008, they were claiming bankruptcy. I mean, they had their pen in their hand. All right, LGBT, no more Stonewall. Stonewall. They stood behind Mermaids, which is an organization for so-called trans kids. And within a year, they went from bankruptcy to a 32 percent year over year growth. Why? Because they have a lot of money.

So if and I understand people not being at the place that I'm at. I understand that. Well, find an organization, find something, because I've said this and Christians get mad at me when I say this and feminists get mad at me when I say that. Well, find an organization. Find something. Because I've said this, and Christians get mad at me when I say this, and feminists get mad at me when I say this. I have absolutely no camp. None. And you know what? I never have. So it's like I was built for this. Try to find an organization.

Donate money. Donate time, you know, anonymously. But, I mean, last month, I mean, I talk to people. I'm sleeping probably like five or six hours a night. I have parents writing me. I have all these things that people are asking me questions. Where's the study? Where's this? I mean, I have a whole Excel that overcomes objections when somebody says something with facts.

And last month, I spent 700 bucks on my own money to fund Trey Voices. Well, we're dealing with pharma. So if you can't say anything, then donate, then call somebody up and go, hey, you know what? I'm going to sit behind you and I'm going to push you out forward. Because the truth is, is that the fastest way to stop this is put trans like me and my trans on Trey voices in front of the camera, because what society will figure out rapidly is that the fucking nutso's are a small portion of our community. Real quick, because yeah. So your ministry, uh, Trey voices, right? What does that stand for? Tell people how they can find you.

I guess I'll put stuff in the show notes, but just in case people are like, hey, man, I could get behind Scott. We'd love to push people your way. Trey Voices is not a ministry. It's Trans Rational Educational Voices. We're run by trans adults like myself, some out, some not. We have a new director named Aaron George, who is taking over the Canadian side. He's a 50 year old trans man who's also an RN, a mental health RN in Canada, also worked at a gender clinic until he finally went, this is wrong. So we have lots of people coming

out. The problem is that, you know, what's Twitter? I mean, that's what we talk about. What's Twitter, right? So it's hard to get out there. We're dealing with a big force. So there's, you know, I mean, obviously, you know, some other, I mean, trans adults who share your perspective, just deep concerns. Really? Yeah. If I, if I could, if I could publish all the emails that I've gotten and I would never would, of course, um, I think people would be absolutely shocked. I do. And there's a fine line, right? Preston. I mean, there is a fine line. There are some people that are not comfortable with the shell they're in. That's human nature. How long have women been putting on lipstick? How long have we been, you know, making, you know, that was your fashion choice, your hat backwards, right?

You know, we have guys getting hair transplants, by the way, I understand that with testosterone losing my hair. I always used to laugh at you guys. I fucking get it. That sucks. I'm very devastated. Um, but we've been changing our looks for a long time. Right. Yeah. But at no point has women been running down the road with their shirts off yelling, I was born with these double D perfect breasts. I did not pay for them. I am a beautiful breasted woman from who I am. And I didn't get plastic surgery. These are mine. We'd kind of go, well, that chick is nuts. But trans people are doing that. And people are going, yeah, you're right.

You were born in the wrong boat. No, you were uncomfortable. And that's cool. We've got medical transition that can help you if you want to do that. But it needs to be safe. And doctors need to tell you what happens with it. And then you need to make a decision as an adult. It's plastic surgery is all it is.

Nobody is born trans. You create it with synthetic hormones and surgery. You create, you create, you create. Homosexuality you are is what I believe. You create this. But if you create homosexuality, who benefits from that? Who gets the money from that? You create trans and there's money.

So for the first time in our society, a heavenly marginalized group has a huge dollar sign above them. And unfortunately, they're all acting like asses thinking that people care. People don't care. People have no more love for trans than they did 20 years ago or people that are different. It's you, you come with something positive. Wow. So you, you described your transition. It didn't go well, to say the least. Do you do you looking back, like, would you have made that decision if you knew now what you did then? Or would you say in your individual case, it was better than not transitioning? Or how do you kind of process your own journey really in light of everything you're saying? transition? How do you process your own journey, really, in light of everything you're saying? Yeah, that's kind of, well, I'm right at that seven to 10 years, right? Okay. Along with all of that. And it's taken me a long time to finally be okay with myself.

And here's the thing. I've accepted what I've done. Me doing any kind of detransitioning for me. Why? So I can look like a trans woman for the rest of my life and live in another fantasy. And they they are not okay um because they think that detransitioning is going to fix all their stuff at some point you just kind of gotta go all right it is what it is so i've done that at 48. This is my life. This is what I created. This is what I will live with, the good and the bad. Do I regret? Well, why should we even go there? What's done is done. All I ask anything that's like, if it's too personal or whatever, just let me know. I'm just kind of the questions come up in my head. I'm curious, like with your family life, your kids and everything, because that's pretty late to transition. Your kids are what, we're around 10 or so, I think, because they're teenagers now. How did it go with your kids? You know, I have a, I've got great kids. I mean, I do. I have absolutely fantastic kids. I've always been a parent that has talked to my kids always, always, always,

always. Um, and I, and I talked to him a lot about different things, me detransitioning, me doing anything like that would be also not beneficial for them. So my focus at this time in their life is no relationship, no transitioning. My life right now is my children and activism. So they're doing really well. Okay, cool. Awesome. That's great. Going back to the parents, because again, the two videos that I saw of you recently were on counseling parents with trans kids with regard to the pronoun question. And you were pretty adamant that parents with younger kids, let's say under 18 kids, and maybe I'll have you respond to the age kind of whatever, but like should not use their preferred pronouns of, of their trans kids. Can you give us a little snapshot of your reasoning for that? And did I actually represent it?

Yeah. Yeah, you did. I, I get, um, I get calls from parents. I, and one thing I never do, I never say no to anybody that needs help. But the one question that I get over and over and over again is, you know, should I call my kids pronouns? Should I do this? Should I do that? And it takes me back to my background as a sales executive, which is our brains are computers. It only believes what you tell it over and over and over and over again. Eventually, if you look at a white wall and say, it's a black wall, it's a black wall, it's a black wall, it's a black wall. And then everybody else that walks by goes, it's a black wall, it's a black wall, it's a black wall. Even though logically it's

white, you go, yeah, it's black. And so it's one of the reasons I'll probably piss people off. I don't care, piss people off. But it's one of the reasons why'll probably piss people off. I don't care. Piss people off. But it's one of the reasons why I feel like like praying works. The praying is basically you're telling your brain what you need and then subconsciously it will make that happen. I don't mean to offend. I mean, people say that they pray for me all the time. I'm like, go for it. Awesome. But your brain's a computer, right? So if I looked at you, Preston, at 13 or 14 years old, and I said,

Preston, you're a girl, you're a girl, you're a girl, girl, girl, where's Preston? Where is she? Where's Preston? Preston, come here. Oh, Preston's my daughter. Preston, you're so sweet. Look at how feminine you are with your hat backwards. You look like a fucking lesbian, you know, all this stuff. Pretty soon, you're going to go up and go, I'm a lesbian because that's, that's human nature, right? And then you have society backing up going, Preston, you are just so, so awesome and strong for saying that you're a lesbian and a girl, even though you're not. Wow. That is progressive. And we're saying it to all the kids that don't fit autism. Go down the thing. Um, so with pronouns, it's, it's the same thing. So I always had said,

and even before I transitioned, I read something that was very significant, which said that people in society call you the pronouns they see in here. Asking someone to call you a pronoun that is not what they see in here is awkward. It's narcissism. It doesn't benefit anybody. It's making everybody that talks to you have to play chess before they say anything to you. Preston, she's a good daughter. And that's not right. So that's the first thing. Second thing is that, again, our brains are computers.

So saying that, you're basically solidifying that they're going to grow up and think that they're trans. And the thing is, is that the loving thing to do is to tell your child, listen, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to let you decide what you want to do as an adult because medical transitioning or being trans is not a choice of mine. I'm your parent. My job right now is to help you see around corners, love the shit out of you and help you and teach you how to do something for a living that you love. It's not making those choices unless you're going to let me decide what career you want, what your sexuality is, how many kids you're going to have, where you're going to live. When you start handing over that stuff, then I'll decide the trans thing for you. So you're doing a disservice to your child.

And I'm very, very, very, very honest with this. And I am kind of over the top with this. If you're in a school district that is doing this, if you're around people that are doing this, fucking move. You know, move to the woods until your kid's through puberty. And don't do it unloving. Just go, you know, when you're old enough, I'll put on my cheerleader outfit right now. Your name's Sarah and I'm calling you Sarah. I'm not calling you Steve.

I'm not calling you he. I'm just not. And nobody else is going to around my house. And no school is or we're leaving. I mean, have you – so you work with a lot of parents. So I'm curious if you found this very honest approach, like, does it go well? Because I can imagine some situations where, man, if a kid feels like their parents don't know what's going on and their friends at school are the only loving ones. And if the parent takes them out of their social environment, I think I even heard you say, I think in your videos, like if you just cut off like social media, if that's their only quote unquote lifeline, or that's how they see it,

that's just going to backfire. Um, or a little bit, right. For a little bit, for a little bit. And, and parenting is rough, right? So you're not going to do something because it's going to be rough. I had somebody write me an email that was hilarious that said that I'm like the Dr. Phil of, of trans people just fucking rolled because I actually have always watched him. He's great with, you know, roughing, smoothing techniques and pulling energy out of people. And I just think that's totally awesome. But I'm, I'm a commando parent and my kids know this. I say yes to just about everything. When I say no, I tell them why. And it's because it's a scene around the corner thing. They know some pretty harsh rules that I have, not very many or limits or boundaries. They go over those. They have a mattress, blanket, five outfits, food. Everything else is gone. And you can start earning that stuff back, right? My kids know that.

stuff back. Right. My kids know that. So if I tell my kid, I'm not going to call them opposite pronouns and they start freaking out, I'll just ratchet it up, you know, ratchet it up until you're in a, you know, you're in a school for girls being around horses until you're 18, but whatever, but you're not medically transitioning. You're not going to do it. So we can keep ratcheting it up or you can just go, Hey, you know what? This is kind of cool. When I'm 18, my parents are going to be put their cheerleader outfit on. I tell parents to bribe kids. I'll pay for all your college. I'll pay for your car. I'll do the insurance. I'll give you money. I'll do this. You just have to wait until you're 25. So do go ahead. No, no, no, no. That's, that's helpful. I, um, I heard, uh, well, I'm not going to say their name, but a mutual friend of ours who you probably know I'm talking about takes very much the similar approach. your kid, like if they don't trust you, if there's just nothing but animosity and just tension and

there's no relationship, then this kind of approach is probably not going to go well. But assuming some sort of foundational relationship, you may fight, you may whatever, but you recover and there is trust. There is some kind of relationship there. Then when you have the kind of tough love, it's going to go further. But if the relationship is just not there, nothing you do. And I think this person even recommended, like you might want to consider as kind of a last resort concession to use the pronouns just so the relationship isn't just completely severed for life. And would you still not agree with that? For you, it's 100% never use,

even if you think that might redeem the relationship? Well, it's the way that you say it, right? It's the way that you say it. If you're my child and I said, Preston, I'm sorry, I'm not calling you she. You're not transgender. We're not going there. You're not getting testosterone.

Now get the fuck to your room and you got this. You're go well he's an asshole i hate him or you can say kreston honey listen there are some people that do benefit from medically transition which is the truth not very many and it is a complicated process and it requires a lot of physical and mental things that children are just not ready to understand. It is a scene around the corner thing. So come here, big boy, big girl, I'll give you a big old hug, you little, you know, dyke of a girl or whatever. And, you know, just make it fun. I mean, it's just, I'm, I used to be gay, so I can say that word. Don't use that word. But, you know, just give him a big hug. Go. I just love the heck out of you. And if you medically transition, you know what? I mean, I will design the cheerleading outfits. I mean, I will. I'll have the whole house. You're going to get your testosterone at 25.

Like, yeah, I'm not going to do it right now. I'm just not. So there's two different ways of delivering that. Right. And I think it's a delivery. I think parents are so concerned that the way that they're saying it is awkward. I've talked, I used to talk to children. I don't anymore, because it's not my place, but I've talked to probably a dozen kids about this that parents wanted me to talk to. Every child I talked to desisted in some way, pulled off, let off the steam. And it's not because I said anything different than what their parents are saying. I said it differently. Well, you also carry a bit of credibility since you're a trans man.

I mean, that's, it's one thing for, you know, quote, cisgender people that just don't get it or you don't understand and you're just naive. But they can't play that card with you. They can't say you don't understand. I'm the definition of understanding. Yeah, right. And there's another reason why you want to get behind transgender people.

We're trying to get our voice out. The media won't get our voice out. We need to be in front of the camera going hold the phone this person over here is he's fucking nuts he's not listening we're over here yeah buck angel's probably the most well-known one that has gone on joe rogan and others and and his again has the credibility saying look i'm not saying transitioning doesn't benefit some people but kids especially in this day and age just and age, it's just not healthy for them to make that decision. What do you say about, well, going back to the suicide piece, and I know that it's unfortunate

that suicidality is being weaponized in certain ways to promote an ideology but um what do you do with that kid that is just like i've got friends so i've got um two well one in particular who um tried everything tried everything debilitating dysphoria attempted suicide you know pursued you know prayed pray you know three four years did not want to do it. And this is kind of like the last resort. Now this person was 19 maybe. So not at the age, not 25, but it was kind of a, you know, um, if there ever was kind of a wise way to do this, it seems like that, that was, you know, um, they did everything, you know, you would say that those cases exist or just in the far minority of kind of the the popularity that exists today or uh say your question well just like you know somebody's has actually done the hard work of trying to relieve their dysphoria but it's it's

just so debilitating that they don't know what else to do other than transition you would say hey that exists but just wait until you're able to make that decision. Well, sure. And I always say to my kids and just in life that you need to do the work first. And medical transitioning, you need to do the work first. If you go into medically transitioning in a delusional state, if you go into medical transitioning thinking it's going to fix everything about you and make you fit into society, if you go into this heavily suicidal, mentally ill, it's not going to fare well for you. These are the people that commit suicide at 7 to 10 years. Do the work first. Understand what it is.

It's cosmetic. And it does make some people you know have a better life and actually buck angel is one of like two that i know that it really helped he's great guy i love him yeah um it did help him but it doesn't help very many people do you understand yeah yeah no yeah yeah so so yeah with the parent whose kid is being, maybe they have an online community, maybe the school they're at, like everybody's saying, this is who you are. You are trans. And if your parents don't affirm this, then they're toxic and they're just going to increase your suicidality. If a parent is in that, I would say, really frustrating kind of situation, what advice do you give to them?

Like, is there some things? I'll say it again. Yeah. Uh, it's, I guess this is what people call the Dr. Phil of trans. You align with them. You acknowledge that there might be a possibility because there might be never lied to your kids. There could be a possibility that that works for you. Um, it's not my decision. You take that away from yourself as your child. That's not my decision. You know, you want to grow up and be, you know, an adult. That's great. The reason why kids can't make decisions as children is because they can't see the

ramifications of it and tell them stories. You know, just like I tell, you know, people stories all the time. If a two-year-old is is around a swimming pool are you going to let them and doesn't know how to swim are you going to leave that baby alone no because he's going to jump in the water right and drown he doesn't know it's not that he's a dumb baby it's not that you know you're around him because you're seeing around that pool corner right and as you grow up all the the round corners get you know know, wider and wider and wider and wider and wider. So this is a corner thing that you don't understand. And it's also not my decision. And I also pose questions. I would pose questions that are very, very, very, very valid. And I would say the work that you need to do is stuff like this. I'm a transgender man. When you take testosterone, does your cholesterol get higher

or lower? Does heart disease get higher or lower? You don't know that. You need to know that. Then you also need to know what kind of symptoms would I get for a heart attack? Is it female symptoms or is it male symptoms? How do I know when I'm having a heart attack? We don't know. So you need to figure out. We need to do studies like that. That's not transphobic to say something like that. Then you ask your kids and go, how many years does medical transitioning shave off of a person's life? 12 years.

You need to know that. You need to know that. You need to know that. You need to know that early onset osteoporosis with trans women seems to kick in about 25 years after continued use of not everybody, but a high majority of trans women that are on synthetic hormones for 25, 30 years, where, you know, have to use walkers or canes or in wheelchairs because their bones deteriorate. Why? We don't know that. And we don't know that is because everybody knows that the money is already made.

I mean, I have to take hormones for the rest of my life. So I have to give pharma either estrogen or testosterone. Well, they don't give a fuck about me now. We have no long-term studies that tell us what's going to happen when we take a child and pause their puberty. And also, it's a prescription from a company that was deemed a criminal enterprise for lying to people about risks. No! It's safe! No, it's not.

No, it's not. And, you know, if you go to the UK, you talk about the UK. If you go to the UK about the Kira Bale case. Yeah. It's very, very interesting. And it's very interesting because if you pull it apart, here's what essentially happened. Emotion, emotion, emotion, emotion, emotion, emotion, emotion, emotion, emotion. Then the court door room slammed.

emotion emotion emotion motion motion then the court door room slammed then the judge said okay show me a study that helped kids who medically transition help their mental mental health because you keep talking about suicide you don't have any numbers on that no studies uh but show me that and they go well here's a study that said that it fixed uh mental illness and then they flipped through the paper. Well, this has been retracted. Do you have another one? Yeah, this one. Okay.

Well, this one's been retracted too and changed. Do you have another one? You don't have any more? Okay. We're not going to talk about that then. Because the facts are is that it does not help. There's been studies. It doesn't work. work okay let's move on

uh then we talk then they start to go okay what happens to a child when they take hormone blockers or this or that and the judge went anyone anyone and then you have you know people that want to jump up in the courtroom and go i don't want my kid to kill. Get that dude out of the courtroom. And then you put all those facts in a bunch and you kind of go, holy shit, what are we doing to kids? And that's what's happening. Wow. here in the United States and in Canada especially is we have a group of society that has a warm and loving heart that are all the people who listen to who watched all the coming out stuff with gay people abs at 12 years old you know I was sitting around all my other friends going if I ever had a child that was gay, I would accept them. I would

love them. I would not do this to my kid. So these are all the parents that are going to the doctors telling them that they're going to kill themselves when there's nothing to prove that saying that Lupron is safe. There's nothing to prove that. In fact, it's the opposite with studies that they have. It does not help mental illness. It does not help. It does not this, that, but they remember those stories. I don't want to be that parent that doesn't accept my child. This is, this is my chance to stand up for the LGBTQ. Uh, this, this is my chance. Well, LGBTQ. This is my chance. Well, here's the problem. It took us 50, 100 years to get rights as gay people. Whether or not you believe in homosexuality or not, I don't give a shit. I don't care how you believe. I'm not a Christian. Jesus all the way. Love him. Cool dude. I mean, his whole philosophy, awesome.

But I just lost my train of thought. Does that happen when you're almost 50? Well, I'm 45, so it happens to me all the time. So I totally lost my train of thought. No, that's fine. There's a lot there. I mean, it's funny because you keep pointing to Big Pharma and the money. And Kira Bell, my organization, wrote an extensive evaluation of that case. And she said the exact same word for word.

They said, Kira, why do you think this is going on? And she said, follow the money. It was just flat out. Kira is a brave, brave, brave young adult. She could be my child. And she's actually a very good friend of mine. And I can say equivocally that she is the coolest lady. I'm afraid for her. Because what do we like more than heroes? We like tearing them down yeah yeah um and man that that girl she's awesome the way she thinks uh she's just a really cool person kid i say but yeah i would love to have her on i don't know how to get a hold of her maybe i can hit you up offline and maybe introduction no no no no no i know please don't ask me for that here is a friend okay yeah no no worries i get it i've got lots of people. You know, it's funny.

Even though I come at this, my main focus is helping Christian leaders and all that. So I'm kind of in this church world. But in this conversation, a lot of the best voices are outside the church. People that I won't name here, but a lot of them I want to have on the show. Well, you're religious. I'm like, I know, but I'm not really that kind. I'm not the kind of Christian people that like, it doesn't matter. Like if they see us even going on a Christian podcast, they're going to say, see, you're in bed with the religious right, even though I'm not even politically right. So I'm sorry, I could talk to you offline, but publicly, I just can't be seen with you.

I get it. I mean, they have a bunch of great. Do you know who Michael Brown is? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He's an evangelical. Yeah.

I mean, I read on him. He reached out to me and I read on him and I went, God, what a fucking prick. But, and I kind of sent him something snotty. And, uh, then it was right after my, my Newsweek article. Yeah. And then I reread my Newsweek article and went, oh, I'll work with anybody. But the first, you know, evangelical that reaches out, I slap his hand. He's become a really good friend. I apologized. We talked, we have great conversations, you know? He just goes, well, I just don't believe in homosexuality and this and that,

and this and that. And I go, well, you're fucked and you're wrong. Um, so let's keep moving on and not talking about this, but I I've always been kind of able to, to reach across that. Right. And seeing life, I've never actually really said this public, but seeing life as a man and seeing life as a woman does something to you, it shows you the difference in our society and the corners that a lot of people can't see around and the reason why people act a certain way and don't act a certain way. And so it has unlocked doors that most people don't have doors to unlock. And the process has helped me understand. It's helped me understand why men do certain things. And I understand why women do certain things because hormones are powerful.

The way that I think and feel is complete. I'm the same person, but it's completely different than when I was on estrogen. It just is. It's different. And I find myself doing things and I'm not one to follow in line, doing things that are kind of like funny male wise that I'm like, God, I used to think that guys were total dicks for doing that. And here I am doing it. And so it gave me a little bit of love for that. top of the whole religious thing i medically transitioned because of religion really um yeah i was i was married to a woman who was a devote catholic i mean over the top catholic religious um and she did not want to be gay at all. And so she always kind of made it okay in her mind because she thought that I had a male personality, even though I dressed feminine. I mean, I come from a family of feminine women. I

mean, I went through finishing school, not once, but twice because I failed the first fucking time. So as a businesswoman, I knew how to walk in heels. I wore makeup. I was not a butch lesbian. I was somebody that would walk in and go, oh, that's a nice put together woman. And then I go, sit down, shut up, show me the numbers. And I go, Jesus, that's not what I expected. And so my personality has always been the same. And so it was, you know, years of kind of listening to that and going, you know, maybe there is something wrong with me, you know. But I also knew that her family hated me.

I was the lesbian devil, right? I mean, I used to listen to those conversations and hear them about, you know, you're going to burn in hell. You're going to do this. I mean, just pulling her apart at the stakes and how hard that was for her. And I hated her family. Every single one. I mean, if I could get them in a padded room and beat the shit out of them, I just, I'd pay big money for that. I mean, I hated them, hated them, hate them just over the top Christian, this and that and this.

And I hated them. Well, I medically transitioned. Well, they didn't know I was the lesbian devil. They just thought that Lynette, you know, met a real nice guy. And I went from lesbian devil. They just thought that Lynette, you know, met a real nice guy. And I went from lesbian devil to straight man saint. And so, of course, I was interjected into her marriage as her husband. And I remember the first time I met them, I walked in, big Italian Catholic family, tons of brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews in this tiny little house in College Station. And everybody was there to meet me, everybody. And on top of it, I had just, I mean, it was just, it was, it was so hard. But what I found was over the next couple of years is I loved her family.

I mean, I loved them. That was one of the biggest things for me. Her family was so cool. And I started to understand why people in her family felt the way that they did. They didn't have the other side of it, but I understood that it wasn't about hate. I understood their position, where they came from. I didn't agree with it, but I started to say, wait a second. So these are really good people, really good people. stuff to kind of step back and go, Hey, you know what? Their life is, is the way that their life is because of the situations, because of, of what they've been influenced by about their life, this or that. So I give people a lot more room to breathe. It's the reason why I'm okay with working with Christians, even though I don't believe the way they believe. Uh, and it has opened that door significantly for me, seeing different sides to that.

That's awesome, man. I've seen that a lot more recently that, yeah, it does seem, I don't know, it's exciting to see people who you wouldn't think would be able to sit on the same panel together, have a conversation together, or actually having really honest conversations around, a lot of times around trans related issues or other things. I mean, obviously you have like the, you know, radical, the gender critical feminists and then the religious conservatives. And it's like, they look at each other like, in what other planet would we be in the same room kind of having this kind of conversation? But there is something beautiful about that in a

society that's so polarized. It doesn't just believe other people are wrong. That's human. But to believe the other person is evil for holding to the views that they have, that's a recipe for disaster. And so to see flickers of what you're talking about, where people can say, hey, I don't know if we line up on everything. And there might even be some serious disagreements, but you're human. I'm human. I'm human. I'm learning. You're learning. We're on a journey.

We're all trying to do the right thing. Can we just have a meal and talk through whatever? Yeah, you don't have to agree with that. And I absolutely believe that. Because unequivocally, as dramatic as I can be, with as much intensity I can can to you and your viewers, tell you what's coming with these kids that medically transitioned, all the ones that have the comorbidities, you know, mental illness, autism, you know, gifted, all that kind of stuff. When they hit 22 and they realize what they've done, we're going to see a suicide epidemic and it's coming.

we're going to see a suicide epidemic and it's coming. We are allowing pharma to basically step on our children for money and pulling apart this, this, this issue and saving these kids. It's going to happen because all of this is going to come out. It will not sustain. It's just how long it will sustain until it stops. But to save kids the fastest, we all have to work together. I did an interview with Madeline Kearns at the National Review. Yeah.

I had her on the podcast a couple years ago. She's great. Yeah. And she said, how can we end this? And I said, well, you have to have everybody in the room together. And I talked to this about, you know, the Arkansas woman that ran that bill, Robin Lindenham or whatever. And she gets it and she does this. But you have to you have to have everybody in the room. And I remember telling Madeline, I kind of you just kind of have to get 10 minutes and go, OK, we got a gay person right there.

We got a transgender person right there. We got a detrans right there. We got a fundamentalist Christian asshole. No, I'm just kidding. We got a Christian right there. We've got a Republican right there. We've got a Democrat right there. We've got a liberal right there. We have somebody with two different color eyes. We have somebody with purple hair. We have this person. We have that person. We have this person. Here's our circle. We're all here. So let's talk about the truth. And the person leading that discussion needs to be a trans person. But we have society, different parts, communities trying to pick this up as their own. You know, in the UK, feminists kind of did that and they got credit for that.

And that's awesome, right? Well, it's starting to backfire a little bit, right? With the lawsuit, they're trying to kind of redo that thing with Kira Barrett. So it wasn't really taken care of. It's still going downhills. We still have it rapidly, you know, onset here in the United States and Canada. The only way to do that, because the feminists are awesome, but they're missing a couple of different aspects. So there's a way to overcome that objection. But yeah, that was feminist, but that's not how trans gay people feel. That's not how this. So if you have a movement that says, we're all here, let's talk

about facts. There's no one in their right mind who's going to walk away from a conversation and go, nope, I still think medically transitioning kids is a good idea. It's just not going to happen. My battery for some reason is getting really low. We can wrap this up in a second. So if it does cut out, that's what's going on. But real quick, I'm curious about the public schools and the stories I hear. I'm not involved in the school system, but I've got friends who are, friends who are educators and everything. And the stuff they tell me about how,

you know, Christians, we used to face the whole thing, like, do we send our kids to public schools because they're going to be taught evolution and the God doesn't exist? It's like, well, of course they're going to be taught that. Like, who cares? You know, it's education. They can be challenged, but it's no longer education.

It's just this indoctrination with something that's not biblical, not just not biblical. Of course, it's not going to be biblical, but it's not even scientific. Like, it's not liberal. It's illiberal. It's hyper left progressive stuff that's held by like 5% of the population. How did this viewpoint become so dominant in the

public schools? And what's the hope for that? Like, it's just, it's eerie. I'm like, how did this happen? Like, well, and I say this to Michael, um, a lot of evangelicals, Christians, uh, when gay people were trying to get rights, was at the height of their power, right? What happened at the height of their power? There was a whole bunch of rats that came out and it basically, they lost their steam because, you know, there were a whole bunch of assholes who kind of popped up. That's what happens when different places get too much power. Well lgbt is there now right um the lgbt promised parents and society we wouldn't come after their kids it was about a you know soft

place to fall it wasn't about converting anybody it wasn't about that it was about you know rights but now they're coming after kids we used to tell evangelicals, you can't be in our school system, but we're allowing the LGBTQ to be in our school system. And saying anything different is going against human love. Right. So there's that power. The LGBT have lost their way, absolutely unequivocally lost their way. They need new leaders. They're all busy trying to design sexual fetish flags and they're forgetting the foundation of a human being. It sucks to be gay. You need to have a soft place to fall. It's not a movement. And so here's what I say. Don't teach my kids about religion. It's not a movement. And so here's what I say. Don't teach my kids about religion.

It's not your place. Don't teach my kids about sexuality. It's not your place. So religion and the LGBTQ, get the fuck away from my kids. And parents need to say that duly, not just for gay when you say it duly it gives you validation when you just say start talking about the lgbt the first thing that they're going to hit right strategic sales they're going to hit that you're christian we'll take that away those two things shouldn't be in our schools right yeah And who cares what my kid thinks about their sexuality? They're 12. They're not having sex with anybody. So as I say to my kids, that's wonderful. It doesn't mean a

fucking thing. You tell me after you start having sex and you just think that you just get it on with this gender, that gender, then we'll talk about your sexuality. You're 12. You're a child. So that's my opinion on that. Scott, I think that's a great place to end. I wish I could see my audience face right now. I love your passion, your colorfulness, and most of all, man, your honesty is so refreshing. So thanks so much. I know you're like, man, I'm going on a Christian podcast. I have no clue what I'm getting myself into. So I really enjoyed our conversation.

We need to bring up Jesus once. Say something about Jesus. Oh, man. End with a prayer. Let's go. I'll do it. My audience is like, what's he going to say? Jesus, I have a hard time with several branches of modern Christianity, but when I read the Gospels

and I see the life of Jesus, I see how he treated people, he treated the marginalized, how he embodied both grace and truth. It's, to me, the best story of the available options. I'm not a Christian because I like Christianity or Christendom. I'm a Christian because I read the Gospels and I'm like, this is the best that I can see right now. And it's a beautiful story from beginning to end. So I really hope and pray that Christians would not just say it and read about it, but would actually embody that grace, truth, life that we see in Jesus. So yeah, that's my mini sermon. Thanks, Scott. Appreciate you. We'd love to continue the relationship in whatever way we can.

So yeah, best of luck to you. Again, all the info on Scott is in the show notes. So please check out. And hey, by the way, if anybody wants to sponsor, I'm trying to put together a speaking tour of transgender people to talk in schools, to talk at communities. I can't do it writing checks for $700 a month.

You want to sponsor? You want to be anonymous? You want to do this? I'll work with it. So somebody could bring you and some other people in to talk in whatever setting. I mean, it could be a church. It could be a school. It could be Boy Scouts.

Maybe not. Yeah, but nobody wants to fund something that people think is anti-trans. I mean, you know, they're trying to kick me off of YouTube, Twitter, you know. You could be anonymous. Awesome. Thanks, Scott. Appreciate you. All right.

Take care. Bye-bye. Thank you.