Theology in the Raw - S9 Ep965: Q & A with Chris and Preston Sprinkle

Episode Date: April 21, 2022

Chris and I did a short impromptu Q & A at the “Exiles in Babylon” conference and we got a TON of questions! We weren’t able to respond to them all at the conference, so Chris joins me in the basement to work through some of the questions that y’all sent in. –––––– PROMOS Save 10% on courses with Kairos Classroom using code TITR at kairosclassroom.com! –––––– Sign up with Faithful Counseling today to save 10% off of your first month at the link:  faithfulcounseling.com/titr or use code TITR at faithfulcounseling.com –––––– Save 30% at SeminaryNow.com by using code TITR –––––– Support Preston Support Preston by going to patreon.com Venmo: @Preston-Sprinkle-1 Connect with Preston Twitter | @PrestonSprinkle Instagram | @preston.sprinkle Youtube | Preston Sprinkle Check out Dr. Sprinkle’s website prestonsprinkle.com Stay Up to Date with the Podcast Twitter | @RawTheology Instagram | @TheologyintheRaw If you enjoy the podcast, be sure to leave a review. www.theologyintheraw.com

All right, hey friends, welcome back to another episode of Theology in the Raw. I am here with my wife, Chris Sprinkle. Chris, thanks for joining me in my basement. Yeah, thanks for having me. Our basement. You don't come down here too much. No. Check on you. Make sure you're still alive. Kick me back down here. Do another podcast. So's here's what we're gonna do uh for those of you who are at the exiles of maplone conference you may recall that i called my wife up on stage to do a little q a um and so a bunch of questions came in from the audience we only got through maybe like four during the conference so um i'm just i got the printout for the questions through the platform that we use and there's

20 questions here. We're not going to get through all of them, but I did want to do a podcast just kind of finishing up some of these questions. It feels odd that I'm sitting on this side of you. I'm always in that seat and I feel so disoriented right now. Really? Yeah, it's so weird. I know. I'm always on

the other side of you. Yeah. Do I get to like hear you? Because my deaf ear... Ah, we should just do it. All right. Talk loud. Let's just try. All right. Well, first of all, so I have a question. During the last or second to last worship set before I called you up, I said, I said, hey, I'm not sure, but I might have some space where I might want to do kind of an unplanned call you up on stage and do a little conversation. I thought for sure you would say absolutely not because you do not love being on stage. Like you don't need to be on stage.

I think you're great at it, but you don't need that role. You don't particularly enjoy it. But you said, okay. And I was like, really? You're like, okay yeah yeah what was going through your mind when I because I mean yeah I was expecting like no way don't do not do that but you were like no I'm I'm willing to do that what was what was behind that well I I kind of was feeling a little bit of prompting in my heart and my spirit a little bit that maybe I would

in my heart and my spirit a little bit that maybe I would like, it would be good for me to, um, to be on stage and just show a presence and maybe say a few things. But I, yeah, I didn't want to necessarily, like, it wasn't like, that's not out of my human personal being. I didn't need that, but I was feeling maybe the Lord was wanting me to, um, only because I feel like, um, I always know, like whenever there's somebody doing something, it's like, I want to know where the spouse is and like, well, what's their role and how are they? Because it's not just you doing all this. It's like, we do it in different ways, but definitely I'm very much a part of it. And the conference and just our vision for Theology in the Raw is definitely you and I. It's passion and heart and a lot of vision and thinking and stuff.

So I was kind of feeling like I feel like I should just, I don't know, but I didn't want to. Like it wasn't like my own personal. So it was kind of like if you're feeling like something, then, you know, I'd be okay. And I feel like a lot of people, even at the conference, like want to hear from you, right? Like what's your story? And I have questions for you. Yeah. I mean, you were getting people kind of asking you that kind of throughout.

Yeah. Yeah. So what's going on in your heart when I called you up on stage? You hesitated. I was like, well, you said you were going to go. So don't leave me hanging. Well, because I I was like, well, you said you were going to come out, so don't leave me hanging here. Well, because I feel like, so, okay, Preston, when we first got married,

we had to have a lot of conversations about, like, your life is just an open book. My life isn't necessarily an open book to anyone. I have very, like, specific, special people that I will be open with. Whereas when you, when we first got married, like you would tell everybody anything. And we had to have a lot of conversations where I'm like,

hey, that's like private. Like we don't need to like tell everybody. And so I, so sometimes I get nervous with that, with you. That it's like, I'm like, did I, like, do I need to remind that there's not, I don't, I don't want my whole, and I mean, who does? Who wants their whole life exposed? So maybe that's the part that makes me a little nervous is when I think about, like, I don't know, don't ask me something that you know I would not want to say.

Yeah. Yeah, so for those who don't know, I mean, you mentioned it, and I'll mention it, like, you're heavily involved in theology in Iraq, and even heavier involved, I would say, in the Center for Faith, Sexuality, and Gender that we, I guess, kind of co-lead. So even though I'm the one recording the podcast and finding the guests, like, there's so much that goes on behind the scenes that you're not just involved, but, like, invested in. Like, you believe in it, you enjoy it. It hasn't always been like that. I mean, I would say for the first several years, the podcast was kind of, I remember when I started the radio station, I'd go and record a bunch of stuff and it's kind of this, this thing I did. And, um, and then as it grew, um, you started handling more like the questions that come in and the emails, like any theologian or email, like doesn't come straight to me. It all goes to you or somebody else.

So, um, yeah, yeah, no, I'm, I'm glad you did that. So, I mean, you did tell me like, do not bring me on stage and thank me or, you know, whatever. Well, how come you don't want me to thank you on stage? Is it, there's a cheesy factor there? Yeah. It just feels, yeah. It's like, it feels cheap and I don't know, like, I don't, I just don't need that. It just feels, yeah.

It feels cheap and I don't know. I just don't need that. I know you're thankful and everyone, you know, I just, I don't know. I don't like that limelight. But is it like, yeah. Is it because it's been done in weird, cheesy ways by other leaders or something? Because everybody likes to be thanked. I mean, I wouldn't, I don't need it.

But if somebody said, hey, we'd like to bring you on stage and thank you, I'd be like, oh, yeah, that's fine. You know, I don't need you to be thanked. I mean, I wouldn't, I don't need it, but if somebody said, Hey, we'd like to bring on stage and thank you. I'd be like, Oh yeah, that's fine. You know, I don't, don't, I don't need you to do it, but, but you really did not want me. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't like it. So I didn't, I brought you on stage, but I will not thank you for all your hard work. Yeah. So what we did at the conference is I just, we opened up the Q and a platform for the audience to ask us any questions for about 10 minutes. So, um, we got through a did at the conference is we opened up the Q&A platform for the audience to ask us any questions for about 10 minutes. So we got through a couple at the conference, but should we dive into some of these other ones? Okay, this one's kind of broad, but I think it's a good one. What is your vision, this is to both of us, for this next generation?

I mean, we're raising four next generation kids. I would say you especially have a heart for, I mean, college age, young adult, mature high school, like maybe some more immature high school age. I wouldn't say neither of us are like, that's not like our passion is to reach that. But people that are like diving into life, asking real questions, they're kind of, you know, really looking forward at like, what does my life look like? I, you, especially like you love, love to invest in that, um, age group, right? Well, yeah. I mean, I think, uh, as our kids have, uh, been in the teenage years, I think that's kind of sparked like this huge interest. So for me, I, um, when I was a teenager, I was pastor's kid, missionary kid, and then got into teen years. And I wanted to have nothing to do with God and the church or anything. And for me, the reason was is because I wanted friends and we lived in a small town and I want, I, um, I wanted friends and the only way to make friends is to go to the

popular ones and they're doing all kinds of stuff that, um, you know, obviously my, my parents weren't okay with. And so I was willing to like, let go of all of, of the, the rules and things so that I could make friends. And so I was on a journey for, you know, five years of just not wanting to have anything to do with God. It wasn't that I had a huge rebellion in me. It's just that I wanted connection. I wanted... You didn't have a belonging. You didn't have a Christian community.

Our church was so small and I didn't have anybody that like investing in me. There was no reason for me to choose the church over like the, like the friends, the people, the different, you know, other fam, my friends as families, parents that were like inviting me over that kind of stuff. So, um, so because of that, I see, and then seeing like, um, our kids and as they've gotten into teen years and all of them have had at one point or another, just, you know, wondered like, what is the church and why do we do this? And kind of, um, just one, you know, just like, what is the church and why do we do this? And kind of,

um, just one, you know, just questioning some of like, just the things that we do and, um, God and all the theological, um, topics and stuff. And then also seeing the, that, um, the, um, the, uh, like how many kids are leaving the church from being raised in a home, Christian home, and then go off to college or on their own. And they just spend the next several years, like kind of uninterested and not sure about that. That sparked like an interest of just like, why is that? Because you see in other cultures that are very connected in the church, they remain that way. Like when we were in Nepal and it's like they all like their community was the church, they remain that way. Like when we were in Nepal and it's like, they all like their community was the church because they spent time during the week. They are always doing things

together. And it's hard to find that here in America, um, because we do church differently than other cultures. But, um, it's kind of given me like, of like, we need to get these kids connected and have a reason for wanting to stay in the church like if they leave the church there's going to be a huge loss for their life our life and so um I think that that gets me really excited to just how can we do that so one of the things is just like always trying to involve younger kids the, with the conference specifically, I was finding as many volunteers as I could in the young, in the, like the teen to 20, you know, three-year-olds to show, to get them involved, being a part of something. Um, I also feel like our kids have so much to, um,

like wisdom and, and, and like, because of the internet, they're like thinking so deeply. And so it's not like they don't know what they're talking about. They actually really do. I mean, they may be young in their thinking, but they're very more advanced in their thinking than we were. And so that makes me, um, just want to make sure we, we like use that for like the church and not just think of them as just dumb teenagers that don't know anything. So I tried that. We had also a couple of youth events right before the conference because a lot of parents were writing and saying that they're bringing their teenagers

or they're coming with a couple of their 20-year-old kids. And so it got me thinking, gosh, we should connect. If they're all coming for a three-day theological conference, they're obviously interested in something more than just partying. So we had a couple of events, and I couldn't believe the turnout. Like 50 or something? Yeah, like 55 people. The ones that came early to be part of it.

Yeah, came a couple days early from out of town. And people were coming from Canada, from Vermont, like all different areas and came early. And we had Preston, you and our pastor of our church, Tucker, gave a little talk to them and just have encouragement. And they had dinner and they went bowling. And it was really made up specifically so that they could just see other believers their age that are interested in the same things of just thinking deeply about God. And they were so encouraged. I remember they were like, thank you so much for doing this. A lot of them have been like, it's like the greatest thing I've ever been to. I know.

The feedback was, I thought they were like, yeah, that's kind of cool. You know, but some were like, I've never experienced this, like a meaningful gathering, talking about important stuff that I have questions about. I'm free to ask questions, to hang out. I'm not, I mean, it was at our house. And I think for some, it was like, yeah, because we don't think anything of ourselves. But I mean, people might think like, wow, the host, the guy in charge of the conference had us over to his house.

Like that was a big deal. And I forget, like we have have people over at house all the time. So it's like, but for them, it's just showing intentionality with them. I mean, I think showing them that they're important, that they matter to us. I think that is for the next generation. They need to feel that like they matter, like they are our next generation. That's so such a big thing for me to think about that. It's like, if we don like help this generation well, they have so many things against them. Like I mean, like with the just Internet, social media, so many, you know, being like who you want to be is so open. You can be anybody you want to be. There's just so it's very hard this generation.

You can be anybody you want to be. There's just so it's very hard this generation. And if we don't help them and like, I feel like it's going to be a disaster for like our grandkids. And so I feel like that has given me passion to be like, we need to make them feel valued, feel important, feel that they, they matter to the church, to our society. They're, they're, they're the ones that are ones that are going to be all the jobs. They're going to be the pastors, the cops, the government, you know, so. I just see them too. I mean, it's a generalization and it's based on just isolated examples, but they just seem generally just very bored with

church. And I feel like a lot of, most of that's on us or at least the leaders of the church doing church in a way that like – I don't know. It may have worked in the 80s and 90s. You get a big youth group and stuff. But I mean I think about like in town. There's churches that at one point had 100, 200 kids in a youth group. There's one church. I don't need to name it. But I think at one point it had over 200 kids thriving youth ministry.

And I think it had – I just asked somebody who went there – who goes there and he's like, I think we have two people in the youth group right now. And it's because they're not talking about the hard things. Like they're so – like kids are so – they're faced with all these hard topics every day of their life. And then they go to a church, and then it's like we are just supposed to talk about just theological things maybe that are just so far out that are not practical. Or such basic Christian stuff that's like, it's good. You need to hit that from time to time. But if that's all you are. Yeah, they want to talk about race.

They want to talk about LGBT. They want to talk about sexuality and marriage and singleness. I mean, they really do. They're hungry because they're wrestling through that. And so I think if we are not doing justice to this generation by just let it just kind of thinking that they'll just figure it out. And no, we have to guide them like we truly like I always think about the Old Testament, how they that, you know, the older generations like taught their kids. And and I picture like they invested in them. They had, you know, sit around and talk about the Bible and what God has done and how God has been faithful throughout. And I feel like we still have that, um, like responsibility to like teach this generation. What does the Bible

say? But, but again, you have to be, it's a different way of doing it than like our parents to us. It's there. It's not sitting down, opening the scripture and saying, this is what the Bible says. That's not going to work. Can you expand on that? Well, I think it's very practical. Like you have to, like you have to speak their language in the practicality with also bringing in the, you know, what the scripture is saying. But you have to like, allow them to start thinking for themselves. I mean, I just see that with our kids, as soon as we just say, um, you know, like give a verse, they're like, oh, they have so many questions

that why that doesn't like, you know, it doesn't resonate. But if we like talk through ways that like they're like their situations and their, and then try to bring it you just have to be way more strategic it's way more complicated now talking to our these kids than I think it was for us like even just like sex before marriage right I mean we even if you weren't a believer you just knew oh that's not good sex before before marriage. Well, why? Because our parents said it, and the Bible says it. And it's like, well, we don't even know where it says it, but we believe that somebody told us that it says it, and we just went with that.

But that's not the case for them anymore. Do you think that isn't – I mean, everything is blamed on the Internet, but this does seem to be pretty true in that we didn't have the ability to fact check our parents. We heard all kinds of stuff. And there's some things where we're like, we'll repeat this kind of myth and our kids will just Google it real quick and say, that's not true. I'm like, I've believed that my whole life. Yeah. So now they're, they're more, they're more like, well, okay, you said that you believe that, but how do I know that's true? Like that they, they need to have a more in-depth conversation not just a top-down here's the right things to believe yeah with it

you know like this doesn't really work I think we have to be willing to put a lot more time into our kids I really I really do I think it's like it's hours of conversations I mean could be like broken up throughout life like it like you just like as you're cooking and you're having deep comfort, but they want to talk. They, I mean, I believe that a hundred percent. And so it's being like giving time for that. I just think parenting well is, is it takes a lot of time, like in, yeah, you're doing that. Well, you have to like be willing to give that time. We have other questions related to that. Okay.

Well, okay. So, sorry, we're still on this first question, but what is your vision for this next generation? I mean, how would you sum up? I mean, that they would find a deep, meaningful sense of belonging in the church where they can wrestle with their faith in authentic ways. I mean, obviously my vision is I want them all to be followers of Jesus, to be flourishing as Christians. Yeah. I mean, I think they do too. I mean, I think their purpose is to increase the kingdom of God,

but I think it just looks different than how we think that should be. We think that should be like, we'll bring them to church and have them faithfully sitting at church every Sunday. But we have to be open to like, that might not be that. They might have, there might be a lot of people that have turned their life around for the Lord, but they're not the ones sitting at church and stuff and being open to that with the kids. So I think giving the kids the okay that it can look differently. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That whole,

like, if you're a good Christian, you'll just go to church and attendance will be good and you just don't ask questions like was that service worth it? Like could we have been doing something more effective for the kingdom? Like we need to be okay with them, you know, kind of asking the hard questions about what it means to be a Christian in today's culture. All right, we got a bunch more to get through. We don't have three hours for this. What advice can you offer singles who are longing for a godly relationship? I'm assuming godly relationship, they're talking about like a, you know, boyfriend-girl, like a marriage relationship, not just a friendship.

So a single person really wants to be married to a godly person. What encouragement? I mean, it's to both of us but I you're better at these kind of questions than I yeah I mean I feel like you know the answer it's like be patient trust God you know like there's like all the yeah that doesn't mean that it's not easy that there's like times where you're just feeling like really is there somebody that God has for me? How am I ever going to meet this person? And I think not putting your life on hold and just like keep using your gifts and like the areas that you're at and trusting that, I mean, you can meet somebody

literally taking out the garbage, like to your, you know, could be somebody walking by and, you know, so it really is not placing yourself in the right position or being the right person like it's just um that's not to say don't like like you know make yourself available like in different like situations but it's just not trying to like navigate your life so much so that you'll just find the right person because um so i would add and you might you might not think you'll agree with this but you might put a different emphasis on it but like i would i would say learn to um flourish as a single person i don't think like you are incomplete or you're not going to experience joy in life until you get married

because if you put that much pressure on the potential of a marriage partner, first of all, just theologically, I don't think that's accurate. But also like you're going to, that's if you bring in that kind of like, I don't know, like expecting this person to fulfill more than they can offer, then I think you might be more disappointed if you do end up getting married. So learning how to treat singleness is not like a stage to get through, but like, hey, this is a season you're in. Maybe it's for a short period of time, maybe a long period of time, maybe for life, whatever. Like there's no promise that you will get married. So learn how to flourish as a single person. Yeah. Which is hard because that you obviously need community and

intimate relationships and that's a two way street. Like is hard because that, you obviously need community and intimate relationships and that's a two-way street. Like, you may desire that, but like we've experienced that before. I mean, we're in environments where we're one in community, we're having people over. It just doesn't seem to be as like reciprocated, you know?

So like I can't command somebody else to like ask good questions, you know, and show an interest, you know? So that is hard for singles to put the burden on you to like find community. It you know, and show an interest, you know? So that is hard for singles to put the burden on you to like find community. It's like, well, community by definition is not, doesn't rest on one person. So I know that can just, that's good. That can be hard, you know? Yeah. And I would just say, just invest in somebody, in people, invest in like teenagers, invest in, uh, you know, college group or just, just invest so that you're taking the focus off of yourself and just putting

more focus on other people and the task that God has for you here on earth right at this moment. Yeah, good. Boom. All right. What was your guys, both of us, our favorite part of the conference? The Q&As, the talks themselves, or the worship? I talked about this on a podcast a couple weeks ago, so I'd love to hear your favorite part. Worship, that was powerful. That was like, I literally felt like I was in heaven a lot of times. So that was just amazing. I feel like it would not have had the same flavor at the conference, if it wasn't for Tanika and Evan. And the congregation, the people that were there, to me,

and I talked about this on the podcast, that my worship is greatly affected by my community environment. If everybody's just kind of standing around, I don't care how powerful it is on stage. I just can't. It just feels weird. Well, everyone was so excited to be there at the conference. I mean, they came from all over.

So it's like it wasn't like, ah. I mean, I think it was like 85% was from out of town. So I think even 90% out of town. So it wasn't like you're like, ah, nothing to do. I'll show up and see what's going on over there. It was like people put their time, their money, made this important. And so yeah, you came, they came ready, you know, and so ready to worship, ready to see and be filled and stuff. So yeah, I think, yeah, the worship was incredible. Definitely, I think if we didn't have the couch Q&A times, that would have not had the same flavor.

It'd just be another conference with great talks. Any conference, you can get great speakers. That's not hard. There's a lot of great communicators, but to have that kind of interaction. It modeled what we were trying to do. So it's like, I love seeing Jackie, she

gives the best speech and then she sits down and then it's like, oh, and she's just another person too. You know, like it just instantly put everything into perspective of like, this is not just like putting people on a pedestal. Like everyone's still like thinking through things and just you and her like joking around and kind of like, you know, like, oh like oh that's a hard one i don't like being who you are and just like i don't know about that i don't know if i can say that i don't like it was just really modeled kind of what like we're trying to create yeah so that was i mean yeah the worship the couch time um for me that was And all the, I mean, the talks were, man, they're all fantastic. I loved having Street Hymns doing his thing, man.

I just added such a great, like, well-roundedness to the conference. So it's not just the kind of same talk, talk, talk, but having more artistry involved. How do you and Preston partner to build this ministry and raise children and invest in your marriage that is a lot to balance I feel like I already answered that yeah we answered that well um what's that let's move on to the next I already answered that watch the video get the video that comes out in four weeks what brings you and your family joy in ministry? I can say one real quick. Yeah, go ahead. Well, just because yesterday was Easter. Just having people over, being hospitable. I think our whole family loves hospitality. And we have a difference. Some kids are more extroverted,

some are more introverted. We're kind of a weird mix and everything so it's like we we enjoy our alone time family time whatever but we also love being hosp like having lots of people over and yeah and people that maybe don't typically get invited over people that are easy to fall between the cracks like i mean you specifically for easter wanted to have over people that didn't maybe have family to go to or weren't, you know, like. Yeah. I prayed all week. Well, the last two weeks, you know, God show me the people that you feel like need to come. And I feel like there was probably 20 people that I didn't even invite that showed up, which I was like, there you go. Which we had like 70 or 80 people or something. And so it's like part of me, I'm like, I'm so thankful for that.

And I want every person to, I feel like we've always modeled that with our kids. Like make people feel like they're valuable and like whoever you meet, that they are important. And I feel like I always look for that everywhere, like a grocery store or anything. And we've tried to teach our kids that and make them feel like that. And so, yeah, I think, yeah, I think that's what we enjoy the most as a family. We also all love like cross-cultural ministry. I mean, yeah. In fact, we've had to like, you know, I think we all can fall into kind of cynicism with

kind of American Christianity or whatever. Like, are there really needs here? You know, we've we all can fall into kind of cynicism with kind of American Christianity or whatever. Like, are there really needs here? You know, we've had to say, well, no, there's, there's needs everywhere, you know? And, and, um, but yeah. Um, let's see what else this is. I printed out the sheet and it's in like six point font. So I'm trying to like, um, oh, how are you able to publicly support your husband, uh, while keeping a healthy personal relationship outside of public eye? Do you understand? Um, yeah, I think I don't want to read, like I was filtering a lot of the emails and then

I was like, I don't want to filter them anymore. So I think we passed that on and that that's been good. I don't like, I just, I just don't want to filter them anymore so I think we passed that on and that that's been good I don't like I just I just don't want to know everything I don't want to like it I can get discouraged a lot easier than you can and so I just um so I feel like you're who I married on stage off stage or like it's like and I don't I don't need to be like jumbled up in my mind with just what other people think or don't think and that kind of stuff. And so I think just not getting in the midst of that, which I think I just try to balance that out because obviously I'm very involved in things. But I don't go on social media. I don't look at things.

I don't read things. Every once in a while I know there's some hubbub going on because I'll just feel it. There'll be maybe a couple little things. You'll get an influx of emails. You're like, Preston, what was your last podcast? I know. I'm like, is there anything I need to know? It's like, okay. So, yeah. Oh, man. Have you ever thought about writing your own book? Possibly. Do tell. writing your own book possibly do tell we'll see I don't know I'm always writing stuff so I've been writing for a while but um I just keep them all in a little file on my computer but um

maybe I know because this kind of goes back to like not wanting to be pulled on stage and thanked whatever like you don't it's I feel like you're kind of contrarian in that sense. Kind of, I guess I share the same spirit, but like if this is something every Christian couple kind of does, you kind of react against that. Like how many times it's, and nothing, there's nothing wrong with that. But like if you have this pastor, this famous person writes a bunch of stuff, has a platform and then all of a sudden the wife gets a contract and she writes a book. Right.

I don't need to do that. I don't need to do that. You don't need to do that. Yeah. So we'll see. I mean, I'm writing. Let's just say that. Okay. Whether it goes any further other than that.

I like to write in the moment. So all of a sudden I'll get these thoughts and I'll just run up to my computer and just write things down. And so we'll see. If nothing else, it's just so good for me. I think it's helping me think through a lot of the, you know, just things that we go through or anything. So, but we'll see. Do you know what you would want to write on?

Or do you not want to go there? Yeah, we'll see. These are the questions. Don't ask me in public. Oh, man. I started sharing. You already know. You don't need to ask it on.

I share thoughts of what I'm thinking about writing about. Like, if I just, a thought came to my head, I'll just share it publicly. Exactly. So this goes back to the first thing I said. You tell everybody everything. Don't tell about my secrets. Oh, my word. Will you send your kids to Bible college?

First of all, we won't send them anywhere. That is not the way we parent. We definitely partner with them as they've gotten older and just their schooling and high school, what they wanted to do. And sometimes kids have wanted to go to school and they've tried it. They've done all different things. So we're not ones to like, we will only pay for this school or you must go to this. So we won't send them anywhere. It will be more of a discussion necessarily. I think if they did want to go to a Christian school, you and I would have definitely some good opinions and guidance for them on which ones to choose. Because we, I mean, you teach at schools all the time.

And we went to a Christian college. And so it'll, yeah, definitely we would be involved. But, you know. All of our kids are so different. Like some are like, no way are they going to college, period. Other ones are like, man, I think they would flourish. Others are kind of like, depends, you know. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm more interested in them finding their gifting and what they're passionate about and what they're excited about and then pursuing that rather than just like, you know, you have to, and then making sure that they have the community that,

and base for Christian community in that. So, I mean, our second daughter wants to be like a journalist and storyteller. And I know she's passionate. She always loves like things that matter. So like, whether it's Christian or environmental or something like that. So instead of thinking, well, you just need to be at a Christian college. It's like, well, what can she do? Where can she go to flourish in that and to help her with, with that along the way, helping guide with a Christian community, whatever that looks like. Again, it's like this generation, you have to think differently. It's not like ours. It was like, you either went to a secular college or a Christian college and that's where your path was. It's just not like that anymore.

It's like people find, you know, they don't go to college and they find the community and they find success. And so it's in different ways. So. It's hard too, because with, I mean, first of all, the expense on Christian colleges, it's like, man man especially in this day and age when you can make you can pursue your dream your career not have a college education like more than ever like it's just not yeah you know doesn't it's not as essential um but also like the environment too it's hard because I would want that I wouldn't want them at like a liberal Christian college like the, I want them to have a good environment. But then a lot of, a lot, I don't know, I mean, I don't have a number or whatever, but there's a decent number of Christian college environments

that maybe are more biblical, but they have a more kind of conservative environment that our kids are not, none of our kids are going to do well in that. It's going to push them away from Jesus. They right now, thank the Lord, I mean, they all have like really vibrant spiritual journeys right now. Like it's really, I mean, and again, you know, they're still teenagers, but like they're great. They have an independent faith walk. They, you know, they're asking great questions. They do love Jesus and Christianity, but there's a lot of Christian environments that they, it would turn

them away from Jesus. And I don't want a Christian environment to steer my kids away from Jesus, because it's just this kind of, you know, this superficial kind of plasticky version of Christianity. I mean, within seconds, they'll be like, ah, no, no thanks. So it's hard to find the balance. You know, it's how many Bible colleges are going to allow students to think freely, are still going to teach the authority of Scripture, but be okay if let kids wrestle with where they're at and not have an oppressive kind of environment? It's not too many, but I don't know.

I think all our kids will have different journeys, 100%. They're all so different and have different – and we've raised them that way. I've always been told them, you know, you do what is right for you and what you want to do instead of like, we all do this, you know? So like school has been, everyone's done different things at different times for the stage that they're in. So I would assume we will have one or more that even don't go to college and then maybe one or more that go to a secular college or are one that maybe one will go to a Christian college. I don't know. Like it'll be interesting, but I don't – it's like just take each one at a time and yeah.

I mean you and I don't have just strong opinions in general for like, this is the way for raising kids in general. I used to have the assumption like, of course our kids are going to college. The question is, do they need a master's degree? And now it's like, oh yeah, no. I mean, they might not go to college. I think one of our kids maybe wondered if they needed to graduate from high school. And we're like, yeah, let's do that one. We don't name which kid, but there's several hours of convincing them that they need to finish high school. We're like, yeah, let's do that one. We don't name which kid, but there's several hours of convincing them that they need to finish high school.

But they, he or she, had a really good case. She would argue it, and I was like, I don't know how to argue against that. Alright. What guest did you love the most in the last year on the podcast? How many episodes?

I mean, you don't listen to too many episodes, do you? I do. More recently. I'm sorry. This is fine. I don't need. Gosh, I have to remember. No, I probably listen.

It depends. You had to listen to that one because you were getting some emails on that one. Yes. The sex one. Yeah. But you said that was really like yeah i was like provocative but you said it was helpful right yeah um yeah gosh i don't know i i remember i mean you you would remember better than me but there's a bunch of them i'm like man that was so good um i typically i pick the ones that um i'm like don't know much about so that like so i'm just thinking the one um that you did about uh on the border of texas and immigration like that like that sparked my interest because i was just like

yeah i haven't thought too much about that so usually it's it's ones that i haven't thought a lot about that i want to like get my wheels turning with that so i've got yeah too many it's it's hard because it depends on the topic depends on the person i mean i really did like the one with francis that i did last year i mean and not just because it was france i feel like he was so honest and it was just fun. And he said things, I'm like, man, I can't, I can't believe he said that. I like to get like the deep down honesty from somebody, you know, um, where they're,

where they're not like put on a face because it's a public platform where they're just totally being themselves. And he, he was very much like that. Yeah. Several race ones were, were great. Yeah. It's hard. I,

I, there's so many that I've, I've enjoyed. All right. Let's see. I mean, Oh, Oh,

would you have the theology in Iraq conference hosted at a different church or even like in a different city or state? We've gotten that request a lot. I would, I mean, you... No. Yeah. That's my answer. And the main reason is, I mean, there were so many times we went down to the church for a meeting. We knew the pastors. I mean, having it right down this, having it 10 minutes from our house, I don't know how we would

have pulled it off being in a different city like that. I mean, right? I mean, you were there all the time. Yeah. Well, I think anytime you create something new, it's so much work up front so I mean it took it took a lot of work to to get it go like this is our first time doing just even what we're trying to create so not just like opening the doors for people to walk in but just being able like just all the like um the whole like lineup and how like the flow of everything and stuff so it was so much work that I told you, I'm like, Oh, I would not want to like recreate that somewhere. Like, it's kind of like, now I want to take the things that didn't really work well, or that needed to be done better. Like we'll just tweak those, but it was, it flowed so well. We have a good relationship with, um, the, all the, the elders and pastors

at the church. And're very hands-off. Yeah, and they were so excited to host it there. We like the feel of the church. There are some bigger churches in town that would fill a lot more people. It would feel a lot more like you rented out a space and probably a lot more rules, to be honest. I don't know if we would have maybe been able to hit all the topics at some of these other bigger churches because they're a lot more conservative,

and they probably would have wanted to know a lot more about what was going to happen at the thing. And that's just not our vibe, but that's not. And so I love it, and I love that it didn't feel so big and gaudy. It felt, you know, so. It's like, I mean, for those who weren't there, the room holds about 1,100 people. But it's more of a wraparound with a really low kind of upper level that has like three rows. But even the upper, there's not a seat in the house where you feel like you're too far away.

Like it's a giant living room. And I like, you know, back, you know, the church is maybe 25 years old, the building, um, and I don't, hasn't been updated too much since then. And I like that. I don't like an overly mega churchy kind of feel. So the fact that the sound system is 20 years old, like I, to me, it's like, that's the old general, like, you know, it's fine. Yeah. It definitely fits our vibe. Yeah. And doing it in another town, I mean, we would have to, like, be there a week early. All the shipping. I mean, all our merch and books. I mean, there's just so much stuff that is shipping back and forth that there's no way.

We rented a U-Haul. We had a warehouse. Full-size U-Haul, yeah. Or, like, a store, sorry. A store, not warehouse. Storage unit that I was just filling like months and months before. Then we rented a U-Haul. I can't believe thousands of pounds you single-handedly went to the storage while I'm in my basement podcasting.

I would grab a couple of the kids a lot of times and say, hey, help me move this. So just practically it has to be in our hometown. And there's no other – there really is no other space unless we're going to pay a lot of money to rent out some downtown. Well, and maybe there is a space of a church. I mean, I know a couple that could be bigger and stuff, but it's just, that's, I think we, we will lose what we tried to. So all that say, I mean, we opened up registration for those that already registered. And they so for

this last conference, they got a discount to to register their 200 people already signed up, we're going to open up early bird probably in a week, week and a half, and they'll run for a month. And just a month, probably. Yeah. And then I feel like this one more than ever i think will because now everyone knows what to expect and knew of the conference i think it'll it'll sell out a lot quicker than than this last one did so i think it's just that's the way it's gonna have to be it's like i mean i hate turning people away because that's so i like yesterday we had 75 people at our house where it was only gonna be like 35 because I'm not I love to be inclusive. And I if somebody needs to be there, it's like I want them to be there.

But I mean, it depends on what expense at what expense, because then at that point it uses it will lose the flavor of it. Yeah. And I also don't like the typical like bigger, better, like wow what if we could get 2 000 people let's get 2 000 what about 3 000 just that whole mindset like i would probably make a terrible mega church pastor i don't think i would ever have two services not that but like if the first one fills up all right there's other churches to go to i don't yeah once you start i don't know that feel bad huh you feel bad about saying I'm not saying that's right

I'm just saying my vibe I don't to me if someone says yeah but you could get 2,000 people there I'll shrug my shoulders

and say I don't need if I wanted 50 I'd get 50 there's nothing intrinsically amazing about a bigger number for me

but yeah alright how do you handle social media usage with your kids? What boundaries do y'all put in place? That's a good question. Yeah. Our kids don't do social media till they 18 or leave the house. Kind of like, um, all of them will be 18 right around when they leave the house anyways. So, um, yeah, we're kind of, we were strict with that to begin with and we established it

early on yeah we didn't have to take social media away it was just another option and i think it's the best decision so that's not to i just feel like it says yeah every once in a while it kind of you know sucks that they can't like you know this is is how the kids their age communicate. And I'm like, oh, well, I mean, this is the one thing that I'm going to think harder for you than what you would want to. I just think, yeah, we just we just see way too much with kids and parents and and how social media has affected them that it's not worth it to me. So I think it's been proven to increase anxiety, depression, suicidality, low body image, bullying. I mean, there's so many negative things. Yeah. And our oldest daughter's turned 18 and she talked to us saying, I think I want to get Instagram.

And she does music. And so she wanted to get some for music as well. And I felt good. We talked through it with her. And I felt like she was like mature enough at that point to do it right. Whereas like a 12, 13-year-old is not mature enough to do that right. They're trying to figure out how to have relationships. And, you know, by 18. Hold on a second.

Something happened here. Oh, there it goes okay by 18 they're a little bit smarter than 13 when it comes to that so i think just allowing our kids to mature and grow up before they are handed such an extra like a powerful tool um so yeah we're not budging on that and they we're pretty lenient in a lot of other ways with stuff we're not but this is one area we've just seen just such damage that what does and that's not worth it so yeah that's not like yeah we're not very strict parents i would say of like just in general like none of our kids have curfews or anything it's just we figure it out like with them but this one yeah

it's like it's not an option so i feel bad for parents that are probably listening right now and yeah and definitely agreeing but i've already elected kids on social media because i i what do you think about kids 15 years old they've had it for two years to take it away that could really backfire but well i mean also it just depends on the relationship that you have. You know, we, I mean, we do that sometimes we're like, especially with our younger kids, we, we forget that we have to establish some more rules with the younger ones. Um, and then all of a sudden it's like, we feel like we have to backpedal and we're like, gosh, we're so sorry.

We've, we didn't really establish this with you. So I'm sorry. We're going to have to like backpedal and set, you know, a few more guidelines in. And so I think it's hard, but we have great relationships with our kids and it's a matter of talking. It's not like just one day being like, you know, social media is gone or this is gone or, you know, you're having a curfew. It's not like in that way. It's more, hey, we're seeing something like I would have like a long conversation, like many conversations leading up to that. Like, how do you think you handle social media? Like, um, Hey, we're seeing something like I would have like a long conversation, like many conversations leading up to that. Like, how do you think you handle social media? Like how, how does it, does it, do you feel like it affects you? Have you had, you know,

so it would be a long conversations to help them see some things that, um, um, like we've had that with like texting, like our kids texting, right? Like I, when I see that things aren't going good, I will like start asking questions like, Hey, like, do you feel like it's, you know, does your, does it affect your mood? Like when someone's not texting you back and, and, and help them see, like, do you think that that's right? Do you want to be like, yeah. And you know, you're happy when this goes good and you're not and stuff. you know, you're happy when this goes good and you're not and stuff. And so I think it has to be just conversations and then hopefully helping them to see like, why don't like, would you ever be interested in trying to get off of it for a season so that, or social media, you know, like,

maybe like going back to like, you're saying, how would you do that? Like, I think that's probably what I do long conversations about it um and then like ask them if they would even consider trying like to like not have it for a month like tell all of your friends that you know hey i'm gonna get off it for a month just to kind of give myself a my uh a freedom for it if they'd be up for it so that they feel like they're what i what i get concerned about is when parents put like really strict like. Arbitrary. Things.

Yeah. It's going to make the kids want to rebel. So they're going to want to be sneaky about it. And my thing is I don't want them to be sneaky. Like I always tell our kids, don't sneak around me because that doesn't help anything. Like I'd rather you just do it and tell me you're doing it than being sneaky about it. So I think if you just pull it, um, so you have to strategically help them come to that kind of a conclusion, help them to see that. And I think it's totally fine to like give rewards for things. I mean, it's just like, you know, I feel like we did no sugar for two years in a row and I paid them for it and we did

no sugar all year. They got to choose one day a week that they would choose. Like if they were going to a party, they're like, I'm going to use my sugar on that time. But I paid them. And they would constantly be thinking about how much money they were going to get at the end. And I was totally fine with that. It was a little bit of a bribe. But I think maybe. It shows that they can do it.

And it gives them motivation. So I feel like maybe something like this. if they were kind of like maybe an agreement to try it, to get off it for a little bit, like giving like some kind of like, what do they want? They want new shoes? Sure. Like what, like give them something to work towards and for motivation. And then, and the reason for that is for them to be able to at the end of like, let's say

it's for a month, you just like, can you get off social media for a month you kind of come they're like oh trying to work through it hey i'll give you 150 bucks by the end of the month you can do it without doing social media and then the goal would be at the end of the month to be able to like talk through how did you feel like what was that like and and knowing that sometimes you're gonna be like yeah i hated it i couldn't wait to get back on it and other times times probably being like, oh, I felt so free. Like we'd go. Which is going to be what they're going to say. I know. So I think your goal for any of those things is a bigger picture. It's, and so that's what I would do. I just can't, I, it's, it's, I would put it in, it's been shown to be neurologically addictive and leads to all kinds of, again, depression, suicidality.

And it's, this isn't debated anymore. Like at first it was like people were like, ah, I wonder if this is, but now it's, the studies have been over and over and over. Jonathan Haidt, I have to, it's not a Theology and Rob podcast if I don't mention Jonathan Haidt. He just wrote a long article about the history of social media and how it, how it changed from like, at the beginning, it was kind of like family photos, this, that, and now it's just turned into this tribalistic rant and raving. And it's just destroying our humanity in the last 10 years, especially. Um, so yeah, it's like, I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't give my kids a loading gun or a crack pipe and say, don't smoke too much. You know, like it's, it's, it's at that level at that level. This is very, very serious.

There's a lot of secular people, even people that work for social media companies, like yeah, I'm not letting my kid on Twitter until 13. They're like the CEO of Twitter or whatever. Maybe that's a bad example. Okay, a couple more here. With Preston having such a large platform as a wife, do you struggle with feeling like you're in the background or losing your

identity? Which I, you know, when I hear people say large platform, it's pretty relative in the broad Christian world. I have a tiny platform in the broad world world. I have no platform. So,

I mean, um, I thank you to those of you who love the podcast and it's, it is a platform, but you know, it's not, um, yeah. And podcasting is weird, it is a platform, but you know, it's not. Yeah. And podcasting is weird. If you know, I come record a podcast and then I do my work down here and then I take my son to the baseball game, I go to the store and it's like my life.

I don't, I think it would be different if I was like on stage at a huge church or something where there was like a really visible reminder of I'm somebody, but with this, I don't know. I don't. Well, I mean, I think you do have that. You're on stage a lot. Like speaking. Yeah. Um, it's not hard for me. I, again, I don't feel like I, I don't need that. I, I, yeah, I don't, I don't desire that. I know what comes with it too i mean it's it's funny actually i was kind of like chuckling myself because at the conference i sat in the front and after each session you would have you and the speakers would have just lines and lines of people that would

like be waiting to talk to you and like really i don't say this like weirdly but like nobody was coming to talk to me you know like i probably didn't know who you were yeah which is fine like i had a couple friends sitting with me and so i would talk with them but i remember thinking oh we have such different lives him and i whereas like for them there's not like everyone's taking selfies with you you know and everything and then like for not, but then the second I got off stage at the very end, I like had like 15, 20 people lined up to talk to me and I laughed to my friend. I go, well now look at, look at this. And, um, I don't like, I don't need that. Like I just, I don't think either of us do. Like I don't, I, I don't say that. I don't need that as if you need that. But it's just like I was honestly like I love like my kids and my few friends. And so it's, you know, like just getting to hang out with them.

But like I mean, so during the conference, during the breaks, I don't know. I'd go see how my kids are doing. They're all at the merch table and selling stuff. And so, yeah, I don't I don't know. I don't think too hard of it. You've never, yeah. You've never needed like recognition or like publicity or anything like, you know, but it comes with it. I mean, and, and again, I mean, I would come from a pastor's kid. So I just knew, you know, you're always like in the limelight and you're all the pastor's kids. And, and I, um, there's times I'm like, I didn't like that.

And other times it's nice to like have people like, like you and know who you are a little bit before. But so I don't know. Yeah. It's hard because there is, I do enjoy, let me put my thoughts together. I enjoy if I'm doing something that I enjoy doing and it's helping somebody else.

I love that. I thrive on it. So when I get an email saying, man, you know, this is something you did has really encouraged me in my faith walk, whatever. Like I love,

I love that. And so in this, I don't want to say like, I don't, do I need that? I don't know if I need it, but I do enjoy it. I do enjoy knowing that I'm not just sitting in my basement wasting time and everybody else's time.

It's actually doing something. And you would say the same. You like to know that what you're investing in is doing something, right? Yeah. It's just totally different. To me, it would be – it's like teen to young adults in my home, investing in their lives like that. Or and it's having, like, friends and moms over and just like, like, just love being in my home and just kind of well, like, just, I don't know, having a good environment. So it's different. Like,

I feel like yours is on the stage, mine is a little more, but like, it's equally meaningful. It's just maybe, maybe totally maybe like i'll notice in my heart like when i'm not like i haven't like uh invested in people um i don't even know how to say it like what in like my own home it's not it's not what i'm meaning but just even like on a very practical personal level i i'm like, oh, I feel like I need – that is a big purpose for me that I want to do. So I'll feel it that I want to do more. Like if we had somebody over and it was just a kind of stayed superficial conversation, nice people, it's like, yeah, it was good. It's fine. But like it's – that doesn't wake us up in the morning or like for you but if you had somebody over and man we we dug deep and

and man they they maybe their marriage is on the fritz and like something you said help them in that or like if i think you would like both of us but you would you thrive in what doing something that is meaningful if it just feels like it's just like checking off some box right yes do you ever think you would be on stage somewhere is that something that you would i mean if you somebody said hey come speak at this women's conference or i mean i have done some art i mean i've done some yeah it's fine but you don't need you know yeah not right now i feel like i um we still have kids at home that I want to be super available for and it's my priority. And I, yeah,

I'm also sensitive to like their, like their, like privacy and their, you know, like just things come with it. And then you start. So yeah, not now. Cause if you did something, I mean, I feel like parenting is, that's your sweet spot. I feel like you're an amazing parent. You're creative. You're super wise. And I feel like that would be a good contribution.

But then with that comes like your kids or you're telling stories about your kids and then this and that you're sharing. It's kind of hard to be a good speaker on that without being honest. And you're not as available at home. And so, yeah, I feel like at this point, I'm going to finish out really strong until the last kid leaves, and then we'll just reevaluate where God has you and I. What church y'all attend in Boise? We go to a Calvary Chapel here where the conference was at. Do your kids get into theological debates with Preston? We've talked about this one before.

I wouldn't say debates, but they're not afraid to question something or push back, especially one of our kids is super, super thoughtful. I mean, she asks deeper questions than most pastors I'm around. So every couple of weeks, we'll go to Chips and Salsa and she'll have a list of, she keeps a list of theological questions, and every single one is like so incredibly difficult. Yeah. And if I give an answer that isn't convincing to her, she won't – she'll just kind of shrug her shoulders, and I'm like – Yeah. But all of them are.

I mean, just – Yeah. You were trying to watch a baseball game the other day and one of our daughters like so like the passage about hell and just wanted to like go all deep into it you know so far you're like trying to like watch the baseball game but i was like what's he gonna do it's like she's like really wants to know these couple passages yeah you're like can you hold that thought for the bit with teenagers we all know it will come and go like you have to be available like at that moment because it's like you tell them to wait 10 minutes and it probably passed and it's like no I don't have that question

anymore so um so I think everybody really does and then just even um I'm just thinking through like just even like race comes up a lot um with and just yeah yeah, that's come up a lot in our home with our kids and, like, racism and what that looks like and who's racist and, you know, and is this, so I feel like, so it's not debates, but it's definitely, like, very conversational. I think they all definitely respect me and my views. Like they know I've thought through stuff. Like they often say that, like,

well, you've thought through this a lot more than I have. But if something doesn't sound convincing to them, they'll be honest and say, I'm not sure about that, you know? Right. They come to you for that. They'll say, Mom, can you pray for me? They know that for me it's like, just pray, Mom. But I'm like, okay, I'm on it.

For the real spiritual stuff, they go to their mom. All right, so how – oh, this is a funny question. How do you get lunch with Preston? He's asking – this person is asking for a friend. I don't know. You can't. I'm not a very – I would say I'm not a very good friend to people that are, that I'm like good friends with.

Like usually my good friends are the ones initiating, you know, reaching out, texting, calling, whatever. So I constantly live with the burden of like, man, I feel like I need to invest in the people that I've known for 20 years better than I, even right now, I could think of like five people like, oh my gosh, I have not called them back. And so... Well, you're an introvert and you're very busy. I mean, with your ministry. I mean, it's just like, there's just like endless things that you just have to, and you love being with your family, like us, like your kids. And I mean, you really do. I love going to lunch too. I would

go to lunch every day of the week, but something has to give, right. So it's like, so, and you'd go to lunch, but you don't like need to go to lunch too. Like, because you're in like, and then when you're traveling and speaking, it's like, you come back and you're like, so like, so like you pour it out so much that you just, you're fine to like not see anybody for a while so i think there's that rhythm of you know maybe in the summer summers you don't speak and travel and uh you're if it's like a down day where it's like you know what this is kind of a cleanup day and going to lunch would be yeah it's not interrupting some but it's hard because you you have like a list of like people that you that and that have asked, you know, that you're in relationship with.

Right. So those like seem to take priority in lunches versus like somebody that would be a new relationship. That's a hard one because it's just like, well, here's a new person wanting to get together with you. But then there's also like somebody who has been asking you for the last four weeks to put something in that you like are in relationship with and so i typically i think my schedule is erratic i mean it changes every week but typically it's like yeah once a week i'm like gonna try to go to lunch with somebody like once a week but like for me if i don't go to lunch i don't take a like a lunch break typically i go make a salad come down eat eat and answer. So it's like, it is taking time out of my work day, you know, so that the ask like, what, what's the, and it's, it's also hard. Like, is there like when,

if somebody is like, Hey, we'd love to go to lunch. Is there, I don't know how to ask like, like, what's the purpose of this? Like why? Cause if you, if you have a serious need or something, but if it's just, ah, no, I just want to hang out. I'm like, that goes on the lower priority, right? Is that bad? Well, there's other people that you just hang out with, right? Like, I mean, we have some friends that we're like, just come over and play cards. And that's, we definitely do that. But it's, you can't, how many can you have of those?

You know, there's not enough time. Right. All right, one more question. Have you considered, Preston, have you considered how thousands of people are being shaped by you, for good or for ill? We are all being formed by your own journey. Can you speak to this?

Yeah, it kind of goes back to what you said earlier. I mean, on the one hand, it kind of freaks me out. I also don't need to be that – need that. Some people, if they're not influencing tons of people, that's kind of their identities wrap up in that. I don't have that at all. It is encouraging. I – yeah, it's encouraging when I hear that. It's

kind of like, are you sure? Like, I don't, I don't know. Is that real? But like, yeah, we get the emails. I mean, it's, it's definitely, you know, um, super encouraging and stuff. So, I feel a huge weight at different times. I've just like, like, I think it was a couple of days before the conference. I just was like, oh, my gosh. Like, is this a task you're calling us to, Lord? Like, so just the weight of that, like, making sure that, like, you're not getting it wrong or like you're leading people in the wrong direction. And not, but I feel like I keep going back to, like, it like, not that you're telling people what to believe, you're showing a way on how we go about things. So everyone can have their own beliefs and on

different topics, but it's, how are you going about that? So that gives me comfort to be like, well, there's no way of getting that wrong. Like that, that's not like wrong. Like if it was like, you're trying to get people to believe, you know know this certain thing that would be a lot scarier too because you're like what if we got that wrong right so i think um but yeah i think there's just times where i personally get like the huge weight of a lot of times during the sexuality like when you were you know like topic when you're writing from time you wrote your first book and going that times I'm like, Ooh, man, that's, this is a, this is really huge and heavy. So it's, here's the balance that I don't know how to navigate is my,

well, I don't know what to call it, my ministry or whatever it is that I do. What are you doing? Like it's, it's been kind of built on me having just open ended, honest, unpolished conversations. So let me ask me a question. I'll just say, Hey, here's some thoughts. You know, I don't like by definition, theology in general is not like a think tank where I'm going to spend hours researching a question. So I make sure I'm crossing every T and dotting every I and doing that. Like there's places to do that and that's just not – I mean hopefully I have enough background that if I say something, it's not going to be just complete ignorance. It will be layers of ignorance. But it's hard. As the podcast has grown,

I'm like, oh, well, I need to be a little more careful with what I say. But then once I start doing that, that works against the very thing I started is kind of being works against the very thing I started is kind of being more free thinking. So finding that balance of not being irresponsible and yet still being myself and an honest thinker out louder, you know? Um, I don't know. Do you have any thoughts? I mean, and I've erred on both sides being too polished. You wish I was more polished, right? Well, there's times I'm like, Ooh, like that. Don't say that. Or like, and then, you know, you're always like, well, I can't say everything perfect times I'm like oh like that don't say that or like it then you know you're always like well I can't say everything perfect I'm like yeah you're right

that's true because it's like it's easy to depict like every single word that comes out of your mouth where it's like if you sit with me I'm like I'm gonna say so many wrong things just like in general so that's so I do feel bad for you I just happen to have a microphone but it's it's and it's that people it's recorded and it's sent out. So people like heard you say that and it's like, they can go back to that. Whereas like if you're sitting on the couch, it's like, well, I think he kind of said something like this, you know, it's a little different. So yeah, I'm always like a little bit like, ah, say like careful, you know, but then I.

Cause you've gotten emails, right? Where it's like Preston said no quote and you'll say like, did you say that? I'm like, I'll go back and listen to it. I'm like, yeah, I guess I did say it like that and I don't know I have to go pick up one of the kids oh shoot okay sorry well that was that was the last question I'm like looking at the time I'm like okay somebody one of our kids is at a coffee shop that needs to be picked up so well thanks for listening thanks for for hanging out in my basement, Chris. I guess, uh,

go pick up my kids upstairs. Yeah. See you at lunch a couple hours. All right. Bye. Thank you.