Theology in the Raw - S9 Ep978: Parenting Teen Girls: Kari Kampakis

Episode Date: June 6, 2022

Drum-roll please!! This is the very first podcast hosted by my wife Chris Sprinkle. It just seemed better to have Chris talk to Kari; you’ll see why. Kari Kampakis is an author, speaker, podcaster, and newspaper columnist from Birmingham, Alabama. Her two books for teen girls, 10 Ultimate Truths Girls Should Know and Liked: Whose Approval Are You Living For, and her bestselling book for moms, Love Her Well: 10 Ways to Find Joy and Connection with Your Teenage Daughter, have been used widely across the country for small group studies. Kari’s work has been featured on The TODAY Show, TODAY Parents, Focus on the Family, EWTN, Bethany Hamilton’s Mother/Daughter ‘Ohana Program, Yahoo! News, Grown & Flown, FaithGateway, Jesus Calling, Your Teen, Motherly,  For Every Mom, Love What Matters, Ann Voskamp’s blog, The Huffington Post, Thrive Global, and other national outlets. She and her husband, Harry, have four daughters and a dog named Lola. Learn more by visiting www.karikampakis.com or finding Kari on Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, and Twitter. –––––– PROMOS Save 10% on courses with Kairos Classroom using code TITR at kairosclassroom.com! –––––– Sign up with Faithful Counseling today to save 10% off of your first month at the link:  faithfulcounseling.com/titr or use code TITR at faithfulcounseling.com –––––– Save 30% at SeminaryNow.com by using code TITR –––––– Support Preston Support Preston by going to patreon.com Venmo: @Preston-Sprinkle-1 Connect with Preston Twitter | @PrestonSprinkle Instagram | @preston.sprinkle Youtube | Preston Sprinkle Check out Dr. Sprinkle’s website prestonsprinkle.com Stay Up to Date with the Podcast Twitter | @RawTheology Instagram | @TheologyintheRaw If you enjoy the podcast, be sure to leave a review. www.theologyintheraw.com

Hi, welcome to the show, Theology in the Raw. If my voice sounds a little different than the usual voice that you're used to hearing, that's because I am not Preston. This is Chris, his wife, and I had a wonderful interview this morning with Carrie Kompakis, and I wanted to take this interview because I feel like her and I are in the same stage. She has four daughters, teenagers, 19, 17, I believe 15 and 13. And we have three daughters and then a son and same ages. We have the 19, 17, 15 and 13. And I want to talk to her because sometimes this stage can be difficult. It's exciting, but we also just need encouragement and we need to have just some input and influence in our parenting. And so we had a great talk. She has written several books. She just came out with her latest book

called More Than a Mom. And it's about making sure that us moms stay healthy and have our own lives and that we don't put all that we are into our kids because our kids are going to leave. And we are people and we are people that God has created even before kids. So fantastic book. And she's also written Love Her Well. She lives in Birmingham, Alabama, and she is an author, a speaker, a podcaster, and a really interesting, she has so many resources on her website. Check out her. And I think she has a lot of influence and just help for us moms. And yeah, I hope you enjoy the show. I'm so excited to have you on Theology in the Raw.

I'm excited to be here. Yes, thank you for having me. Awesome. Well, why don't we start off and tell me a little bit about yourself and just your life and all your kids. and just your life and all your kids? Okay. Well, I live in Birmingham, Alabama. I'm married. He wasn't my college sweetheart, but I met him in college, and we started dating a year after. His name is Harry, and we have four daughters.

The oldest one just finished her freshman year in college. She's at Auburn. And then second daughter is a rising senior, and then also a 10th grader and a 7th grader. So they keep us pretty busy. I've written four books. The first two books were released for teen girls. And then the second two books were for moms. The latest one just came out this past April. It's about a mom's wellness. So anyways, it's fun. My work life and my personal life pretty much overlap and run

pretty parallel. So it's been a fun journey, but we stay busy over here. Yeah, that's awesome. And so what brought you into writing your latest two books? Was there any personal stories for you that kind of caused you into thinking about mom's health for the family? Yes, that's a great question. Well, the first two books for teen girls, that's just where the door opened for me to release books for teenage daughters. They came out in 2014 and 2016. And so that really just it really just opened my heart to what teenage girls were going through. When I wrote those books, my girls were younger. They were sixth grade and below. And so these books are really just trying to, you know, it's really messages to prepare our girls for the road ahead. You know, my editors were like, it was target age for 12 through 16. She said, you know, we want them to think about these hard situations they'll be in before they're actually there. So I wrote those books and started meeting a lot of moms and daughters. And I'd meet these mothers and they're like, you know, thank you for writing this book for our daughters. When are you going to write a book for us? And I would just smile politely. And in my head, I'm thinking I'm not writing from others. You know, I'm just, that's a harder audience to crack. I love my mom

friends. But I felt like teenagers are pretty impressionable and, you know, just more open to hear all the messages. And so I really just didn't have any intention to write from others until maybe 20 years from now, because I don't think any mom feels like a parenting expert. And I know I'm certainly not. So I was like, maybe in a couple of decades from now. But what happened, I took a break between the second book and the third book. And I just spoke and I just needed to decompress. And during that time, my daughters grew up and they started becoming teenagers. And I started having some friction with the oldest ones because I was still trying to parent them like the way I had when they were younger. And I was struggling to find resources because there was so much out there when your kids are little. And so basically, the third book came several years later. And it was

really about my journey of learning how to love a teenage daughter while also parenting a teenage daughter. And a lot of the mistakes I made, there's some gulfs that had come between me and my daughters because I was doing things wrong. And I was blaming all of our problems on them and, you know, teenage sassiness and all of that when really it was more about me doing some soul searching and maybe changing the way that I was approaching them in parenting. So the third book was Love Her Well. It came about, it was for moms of teenage girls. And then after that book came out, we had COVID, the pandemic, you know, moms were really struggling. We were talking about the next parenting book with my editors. And I was like, every mom I know is struggling right now. And they wanted another parenting book. And they're like, your platform is parenting. And I'm like, I know, but we can't be effective parents if we're not in a good place as moms. So I really wanted something that could focus on a mom's wellness with the incentive to know that when we get ourselves in a good place, mentally, emotionally, spiritually and physically, it's going to make us more effective moms. It's going to make us healthier for our families and help our families

thrive. So that was really the heart behind the latest book, which is called More Than a Mom, How Prioritizing Your Wellness Helps You and Your Family Thrive. Oh, man. How has that really shaped you? Like writing that book, has that really had you make you like up your game with like for your own personal self? book, has that really had you make you like up your game with like for your own personal self? Yes. Yeah, it has. And it's made me see the hypocrisy in myself. I mean, I talk a lot about keeping your wellness appointments and doing for yourself what you would for your children. And yet I've had this one wellness appointment I've postponed and canceled several times because I'm like, I just don't have time for it. And I think that's what we do as moms is we let these

little, these, you know, these needs that we have, we just neglect them because we're so busy prioritizing our family. And obviously motherhood is all about sacrifices, but it's made me just take a look at myself and maybe even carve out more room for rest and things like that, that maybe I didn't do when I was younger. But now that I'm getting older and I've parented for 20 years, you just realize how important that is. Yeah. What, what Enneagram are you? Do you do Enneagrams? Yes. I'm a one. Okay. What about you? I'm a seven. Okay. Um, I always like to just kind of know, like, you know, that I think they're so helpful just to kind of know what type of person someone is going into, um, you know, what they're sharing. Um, well, so tell

us what are like, why don't you like really practically give us some of the practical tips, like a few of them that you're like, how do, how do moms care for themselves? Like what would be some very specific practical things that we need to keep in mind as we're in it? And I'm sure it looks different for every person, but the, the, you know, the, the idea is probably the same. Right. You know, the whole premise behind the book is that, you know, the the idea is probably the same. Right. You know, the whole premise behind the book is that, you know, raising a healthy family begins with them seeing a healthy mom. And we can only take our children as far as we've come. And I think what we realize when your kids get to be older like mine are, is that you really go from a place of power to a place of influence as parents. That you realize that, you know, one of your best parenting tools is being a good role model. And that doesn't mean being a perfect role model. It means like, okay, I've got

an issue with this or I'm struggling with this problem. I'm not going to just let it slide or bury it. I'm going to go get help. And so it really is just kind of taking a look at yourself and thinking what's holding me back in life, you know, what's preventing me from being the best version of myself. And so it might be anxiety. And so, you know, we all know that children and teenagers are really struggling with anxiety. I think they say one out of every three now have anxiety, teenagers. And so we've got to look at ourselves as moms. Like, you know, if we're struggling with it, if we have issues we haven't dealt with, we're only going to add to their anxious mind.

So I have a whole chapter on that, you know, just really replacing anxious thoughts with healthy thoughts and thoughts from God. The first chapter of the book is about knowing your worth, because I really do believe that just knowing our worth and our value as a child of God, and that really is the whole premise of the book too, is that, you know, we're moms, but really, I know that's a huge, important calling. And for a lot of my life, I thought that was my most important purpose. But what I know now is our biggest purpose is to know, love, and serve the Lord. And so I think when we see ourselves as a child of God, then we value ourself, we value our life, and we understand how getting healthy for our children, it's really about being good stewards of these gifts that God's given us, like

our body, our family, our time, and just stewarding those gifts well. But always, you know, valuing ourselves like we hope our children will value themselves too. That's so good. And that's something like specifically I've been thinking a lot about. So we have three teenage girls, 19, 17, 15, and then a son that's who's 13. And as they're like getting older and they're not needing us and they're not wanting us also, you know, it's like all the things that we used to always wanted to get together. They're not really wanting to do that anymore. Um, it's really had to make me stop and think, um, I mean, I've had moments of like feeling like panicked of like, Whoa, what, like now what? And it's had to be really thinking about like, well, who, what do I like?

You know, all that, like for the last 18 years, my likes have really been shifted between like, well, how is everybody doing? Like, what would I like to do today? Well, it's if everyone's doing good. And if it, you know, like it always depends on everybody else. And so this last year I've been really thinking through, well, what, what do I like? What am I called to? What are my passions?

What like originally way even before all the kids, who was I and what, what did I want to do? What did I like? What was my ambition? And so I can see how like that really goes back to that kind of what you're saying is, is like that was who am I? And that's, I think you kind of forget that like, or not forget that, but it's pushed to the side a little bit during all the young years of parenting, which is natural. I mean, I don't think there's really too much, too, like you can't really get around that too much, but it really, I think that's, that's like what happens on the other side is all of a sudden you're, you're back to face is who am I? So I think that's, that's probably

a great chapter to start with. Yes. And I do think too So I think that's, that's probably a great chapter to start with. Yes. And I do think too, I think that sometimes as women, we tend to find our identity in our family and our children. And as you, as your children get older, you realize that's kind of a dangerous proposition because if you're, if we're relying on them for our joy and all of a sudden they want to go walk in with their friend, but not with us, you know, what's going to happen to our self-esteem, you know, those kinds of things that can really make us that needy, that needy clingy mom. It can make us that mother that they don's going to happen to our self-esteem, you know, those kinds of things that can really make us that needy, that needy clingy mom. It can make us that mother that they don't want to come home to because we're just mad

or resentful that they're not, you know, making us the center of their universe like they did when they were younger. And so that's one thing I really realized as my girls grew older and, you know, I was still making them the center of my universe. I'd wrapped up my identity in them, but I was at the center of their universe and it started creating some friction. And so I really do think if we can kind of pull back and see that bigger picture once again, like who we were before we even had children and be available for them, but also

be able to find joy and purpose, even when they're not at home, it's going to make them want to come home and it's going to help our relationship with our children. Yeah. So do you think it's really about, sorry, something in my throat, like going back to finding like your friends and your people and things that are just really outside of the children and not like, well, since they're busy, then I'm going to do this, or since they aren't home, but to truly have like, well, like, I want a friend. I like hanging out with people like that.

I mean, do you feel like it's an active part on us moms? Yes. I mean, that's the whole chapter, too, is a chapter on friendship. And I feel like as moms, we need our friendships when the kids are little, when you have that village and you're changing everybody's babies' diapers and just raising toddlers together. And then you kind of go through that sweet spot of parenting. And I remember even thinking, I don't really need my friends right now. I thought, you know, my husband's my best friend. Parenting had gotten kind of easy. It was just a little, I realized there was a little bit of

the calm before the storm. And then you get into teenage years again. And, you know, I just, I just really believe that we as parents were meant to be the stronger, kinder, wiser one. And we're called to love our children and pursue their heart, regardless of whether they're loving us back. And that's hard because they got things going on. Sometimes they're moody or they're going through a trial. And we're not always getting the words of affirmation or the affection that we got when they were little. And a lot of parents give up then, you know, because they're like, well, he's not treating me well. So why am I going to keep making this effort to initiate?

But as parents, we are called to keep extending that invitation, just like God does with us. But I'm so convinced that for us to be able to do that, we've got to have a strong adult village. And sometimes those friendships we put on the back burner, or that marriage we put on the back burner, we've got to go have love in our life. And I believe if we do go, you know, have friends who fill our cup, or a marriage, or just other relationships, then that we do get love from those relationships. It enables us to turn around and love our children well, regardless of whether they're loving us well in return. And just if we keep doing that, you know, one day they're going to respond. If not now, then if we keep doing it one day.

Yeah, I think that's so, so good. Like just as like this past year, I've been thinking like our kids are just up and down, right? They're just like the moods, they don't know who they are. They're trying to figure themselves out. So one day I feel like they're like, they're all this. And then another day they're not that. And so they're, they're all over the map. And I think at first when I was getting into these years, it was so like, it was so much for me. I just was like going with them and all the things I'd be all in that day. And then I'd be all in the other day. And then, and then I carry all the, all the emotions. And then I'm like laying in bed

thinking, oh my gosh, I can't take all these like emotions of like, like, you know, but they've moved on to something else, but I'm like still stuck in like whatever situation. And, um, and then this year I always, um, God always gives me, um, two year, two words for the year. And it's kind of like, it kind of goes along with my year verse. And this year, um, he really brought the two words steady and joy. And it was interesting. Cause as I was like, as I kept thinking about that, I'm like, I need to be a steady mom. Like I'm not going up and down with them. Like I'm not, I'm there for them. I'm going to listen, but I'm not like going to be like in the depths of despair when they're in the depths of despair. And I'm not going to be like so ecstatic what I know that probably

tomorrow something's going to be different and they're not going to be there. And then, and then just that my joy is independent on all those things. Like when they're really joyful and happy that I am and when they're not, I'm, you know, and that's just, it's, I think it's a really hard thing to do. It really is like, you have to like really control your mind and you have to really like make sure that your thoughts and that it's not dependent just on them, because that's a hard, hard thing to like there. And, you know, and one of my daughters, who's always tells me how I need to be or not be, she's, you know, she was like, like, I don't need you to like, feel the same way I am all the time. Like, I'm just trying to figure it out. And I was like,

yeah, you're right. I don't need to feel like that. So yeah. And it's true. And I think it's because as women, I think we're so empathetic and we're intuitive. And so sometimes, especially when you have daughters, I think sometimes we pick up on these feelings and emotions or what's going on inside of them in a way that maybe our husbands don't. And so that can be a gift and a curse too. But I agree. And I have a friend, my friend, Kim Anderson, she's a counselor in Nashville, and she was talking about how they call it the ET syndrome that I think we moms can fall into it really easily. And, you know, for those of us who grew up in the eighties, we know that, you know, in the maybe ET at the end, when ET is getting

sick, you know, Elliot's getting sick. And the more sick that ET gets, the more sick Elliot gets. It's symbiotic relationships. And so as parents and moms, we can fall into that same trap. And so all of a sudden our child is in despair and we can't even help them because we're so upset or we're more upset over this trial in their life than they are. And so she gave me this visual that has really, I'm like, this is what I think we're parenting toward. She said it's called the circle of security. And it's about being the, you know, parents are meant to be the stronger, kinder, wiser one in that relationship with our children. And so if your daughter's about to go get on that emotional roller coaster, instead of going to ride

that roller coaster with her, you're basically saying, you know, I'm not going to ride that with you, but I'm going to be standing here on the platform with my arms wide open waiting for you when you're ready to get off. And from that, you know, kids can draw strength from us. It helps the relationship and it helps us be that steady parent. But like you said, I don't think that comes naturally to most of us. I know it doesn't to me. You learn it. You can learn it. Yes, yes, yes. It takes some practice and some mistakes, but I do think you can learn to do that. And it helps the relationship. I really do think it helps us be that strong parent that they crave in their life. So what do you, like, what does that look like when you say, I'm not going to ride that

roller coaster with you? I'm just going to stand here. Like, what does that really actually look like? Well, I think it looks like, you know, say your child doesn't make the team, you know, and so you're mourning with them. You're so sad. You know, when my kids have trial weeks, I don't plan anything for that week. I're so sad. My kids have trial weeks. I don't plan anything for that week.

I don't plan anything for the day after trial. So I can just be there for them. So I think you're empathetic and you're mourning, but you're not just falling apart in front of them. And so I think it's, you know, you're holding them. They're crying. You can still cry. I think that's fine. But if they see that you're more upset than they are, then they're thinking, well, mom's that worried, then that must really be bad. There really must not be hope for the future.

So I think that it's just empathizing when they're, when they're down, but also saying, I'm so sorry, this is terrible. You know, I'm here to walk through this challenge with you and, you know, and I, and you're not alone, but at the same time, always offering that nugget of hope and that, you know, you're, you're going to be okay. And, you know, I always tell mine, I'm like, I'm not worried about you. You know, this is terrible. I hate that you have to go through this, but you are strong. You are resilient. You know, you've got God in your heart. And I've seen, you know, you did this in the past or you did this. And, you know, I think it helps them to say that you're going to get through. It helps them to

hear that you're going to get through this. Like I said, I'm not worried about you. I know you're going to be amazing. God's got an amazing plan for your future. We don't know that, but we are trusting that in advance. And I think just hearing those words spoken when you're at a really low time in life can really help somebody to see that vision for their future that maybe might not be happening in their own head at the time. Yeah. Oh, that's so true. I feel like it's very easy to say, I'm so worried about you, right? Like to say, I'm so worried that you're da, da, da, da. But I feel like that is a confusion for them, right? I mean, that just makes them even more worried about themselves if mom's worried about me. And so

to be able to, that, that is the steady part of saying, I'm not worried. You've got this. Right. Yes. Oh, that's, that's, that's gold there. I hope a lot of parents, I hope a lot of moms are taking away that because that's, that's really good. Yeah. And I talk to a lot of moms when I do speaking events, I always, the people who plan my events, I feel like I learned so much from them because we always have these conversations and I'm always asking them, you know, what are the needs in your community or what are the struggles

you're seeing in your community? What do you think moms are really wrestling with? And one thing I feel like I've been hearing, especially in recent years, is just that need for control and that thought process that I think sometimes we have as parents is we have this idea in our head like, okay, this is the path they need to take. And so if one thing doesn't happen on that path, so, okay, your daughter doesn't get a date to the first eighth grade dance and all of a sudden we're panicking because she will never have a date in high school. You know, we're projecting that into the future instead of trusting that, okay, you know, it's, you know, if this doesn't happen, God's going to create

another path. Something's, you know, it'll be okay. She'll get through it. But I think when we panic over those things that don't go according to plan, then our kids are going to panic too, because if we're the strong ones and all of a sudden we don't really have hope for the future, or we think everything's, you know, totally ruined, then it's going to make them panic as well. Yeah. And I think recognizing that, you know, we know like as adults, like we all have a journey, we all have a story, but recognizing that in our teenagers, in our kids, that this is going to be part of your story. So that like, so it helps you to not like wish there was something different. So if like they don't get asked all through high

school to go to the dance, that's part of their story. Like that's going to affect them in a way that is part of, there's something going on with that, that God's going to use or that it's going to really help them think of themselves. And so I think I've just tried to really think of like, even if it's bad situations and even if it's like, oh my gosh, that's not what I would have chosen or that's not what I want. But just that that's part of the story that's going to like unfold and make them who they, who God wants them to be. Right. And one thing I tell my children too, as I was like, you know, you don't want, you know, this is, you don't want your first challenge or the first rejection to come when you're in college.

You know, that's one of the most dangerous times. Those are some of the kids at the highest risk of, you know, making some some tragic choices because all of a sudden everything's gone well for them and they don't know what to do. They don't know how to handle that. And so it feels like as parents, I think it's so helpful to remember that. Like, it's so painful to see them going through these challenges. But at least we want to help them through some rejection, through some challenges in high school, because that's going to give them something to look back on when they go through it again in college. And suddenly we're not there and they're having to rely on other people or themselves to get through it. But it's so hard. And like I said, and I do think, too, like you said, you know, just, you know, always having that hope for the future.

I'm not worried about you. And also I tell mine, too you said, you know, just, you know, always having that hope for the future. I'm not worried about you. And also I tell mine, too, that, you know, this is part of your testimony and it feels so personal. But, you know, one day I can see you sharing this with other people. You know, there are going to be people behind you. You'll get through this. You'll be healed. And they're going to need this message of hope that you can give them. And God's going to use you.

You just have no idea how that's going to happen yet. And so I do think helping them see that bigger picture that might not come naturally to them can really help them get through those, those rough patches. Yeah. And like you said, like having it, them go through some of these situations while they're in your home is that they're still having to deal with it with you. Like even if they don't always want to talk about it with mom and dad, they still will at some point. Right. Cause we know it always comes out. And it's like, if you wait long enough, it's going to get blurted out or it's trying to be independent. And so she's not wanting to ask us as much stuff. And it's really only because she wants to be independent. She really wants to learn how to do it on their own. So when they're gone and they're dealing, like going through like situations, like I think their, their natural response is going to be to try to figure it out

on their own. And so if these are all the first time of this and first time of that and trying to figure on their own, they still do need wise counsel. They still need someone inputting with them. So I know we are, we is, like you said, even though it's hard to see them at young years go through like some painful things, I'm always so thankful that they're like the first, because I always say the first time you go through something, the second time is going to be way easier. The first time you don't get on a team, the second time is going to be a lot easier. And not so true. So it is, it's the whole, the first cut is the deepest. I'll tell mine that too. I was like, this is the story you will be telling your children and your grandchildren,

you know, when they don't make a team, when something doesn't go right, you'll be telling it to them. And that first cut is the deepest. And there was a quote, I used it in Love Her Well, and I think it's from the authors of the book's Boundaries. But they said that hope is rooted in memory. And so basically, you know, we find hope by remembering what God has done in the past in our life. And so I think about, you know, when you're a teenager, your child goes through their

first hard thing. They don't have that memory of the past. They haven't had, they can't look back on their life like we can as parents. And that's really what we can bring to the table is that perspective, because what they're going through is going to be their memory. But, you know, as they get to that first one, like you said, that'll give them something to look back on two years later when another rejection happens and they can look back and say, okay, I got through that. You know, God brought me through that dark time. He will, he will do it again. And so as parents, it's a real privilege for us to be there that first time that they have that big rejection

and to be able to guide them through it. Yeah, that's good. So, um, so we've talked about, um, some things for, for moms is finding your own friends, finding your own identity, who you are, what, um, what, what, what are a few other things that you can tell us? Yes, I have a whole chapter on joy, which made me think of, you said that joy was one of your words for the year. And yeah, and I just think as parents, especially as moms, when our kids get older, we can just stay so busy on that hamster wheel. And this is why rest has become so important in my life, because I realized when I was constantly going and always in motion and just packing my calendar, I mean, I just really started to feel like a robot and I just feel like a productivity machine and that's my personality. But what happens when

you're on that track for long enough, you just start to feel numb inside and empty and you start losing that joy that you maybe you used to get over the smallest of things like a sunset or something a little like that. So I think it's really important for us to fight for our joy and also know that, you know, when you're as we are, our kids are growing up. We're losing our parents. You know, we're going through hard things. I call it big league stress. It really starts to kick in when you're in the 40s. And I haven't thought about that with my kids. Like I'm not preparing them for a little league stress. I'm preparing them for this big league stress like cancer or, you know, death, divorce, these financial problems, whatever it is that you're walking through or that your friends are walking through. And so I think for us, it can be really easy to stay in that pit of despair and to be sad. And I've learned in my

life, like I've got to learn how to let joy and pain coexist on the same day. You know, that sometimes, and a story that my mom was in the hospital, this was years ago, it was Mother's Day weekend. And she ended up making it through that weekend, but it did not look like she would. It was a Friday. And I was just like, she just had this major health crisis. And I was like, this is terrible. Like to lose my mom on Mother's Day weekend is so cruel. And so I've been crying at the hospital all morning long. And then my phone beeped, I had to go to a Mother's Day tea at my child's school. And I'm like, that is the last thing I feel like doing. But, you know, I go and it's a kindergarten tea.

So, of course, the kids are going crazy. They've eaten cupcakes. They're just high on all the sugar and they're singing the song. And I just like started crying again. But these were tears of joy. And I just thought this is the strangest day. I just went from this place of like, like almost death to this place of life, you know, from a place of our journeys were ending in the hospital, people around my mom, and then to this place where the journeys were just beginning. And it felt so weird. I almost felt guilty feeling joy on that same day. But then I realized how gracious God was that I was like, he knew I needed this pocket of joy. You know, I needed something to give me hope on a really hard day to not stay stuck in that pit

of despair. And I think that's a new thing we have to learn as we get older. It doesn't, again, it doesn't come naturally, but learning to, you know, grieve and be sad and mourn, but also not miss out on the blessings in life and the joy that's still out there. Yeah. I mean, I feel like moms are so strong because of that. Like what we have to go through in order to get through the day with that. Like, I mean, I see that like out of the three girls in one day, I will be crying with one. I will be jumping with joy with the other. I will be praying for the other. And you just think you've got to go all in with that. You've got to like put aside, like this one's in the depths of despair and you got to put aside that because this one's coming home because she had the best day and like

all this exciting stuff in her life. And you, and, and, and I think that's why sometimes I go to bed just going, my cup is so full of like the emotions. And like you had said earlier that we're so empathetic and we love our kids so much. I mean, it's just like, we've like walked this long road with them that we, you know, that it's like, so like, I, I'm, I'm all in with each person, you know? And yes, but then it's just like, man, how our bodies can be so resilient with that. And our emotions, you know, um, is amazing. I mean, it's so funny in the talk that I give for More Than a Mom, I talk about that exact same thing about how, and that's one reason I think our wellness matters, getting ourselves

in a good place so that we're equipped to have that inner strength. And I had a friend that, yeah, she was talking about, she has this one son that he's like killing it on Twitter. He's got all these posts going viral. He's in the sports world. He's doing great. And then she had another son that came home from school. He was not making very good choices in college. And so he was home from school. So she was telling her older son, like, I'm so proud of you, but don't put that on the family group chat, you know?

But what she's juggling as a mom, I'm like, we're all there. And as your kids grow up, you do have, you know, on the same day, you've got one, one child that's thriving and one that's struggling and like being there all in for both of them. It takes a lot of wisdom and inner strength. Yeah. Tell us, um, like what, what are you seeing with moms? Um, like some, some of the negative things that you're seeing that like the reason why you're, you're writing what you're writing and speaking with what you're in. Cause what are you, what are you seeing with, with moms as their kids are getting older that aren't, that aren't doing so well or like are struggling and trying to figure it out? Yes. You know, I think that, I think it really goes back to trying to micromanage and thinking

that we can control their life and really just, I mean, to me, it's just like not trusting that, okay, even if they go through a rough patch or whatever, just praying, I mean, to me, it's just like not trusting that, okay, even if they go through a rough patch or whatever, just praying. I mean, just really getting on our knees and praying for them and just asking God to, you know, if this is something they have to go through that might lead to their salvation or might lead to their long-term good, then, you know, help me, give me the wisdom to help them through it. But I think it's just that sense, that false sense of control that we have. And I also think that we live in an age of very child-centered parenting. And I know I've been guilty of this, but, you know, sometimes we put our children on the pedestal instead of putting God on the pedestal. And, you know, when we center our universe around our children, and then you get to the world of teenagers and they're naturally self-centered. And so in the work that I'm doing with teenage

girls, like the biggest problem I hear about is so many issues with friendship. Like it's heartbreaking and it's everywhere. These girls are really struggling and it's pain within friend groups or pain within people that they thought were their friends. And when I really look at the root issue, it's always, we have a self-centered society. And so I think that our natural inclination, you know, a lot of girls, a lot of people, we just, we spend a lot of time thinking about how are people treating us? You know, what's happening in my life? I don't have any good friends, but we're not putting 10 seconds into thinking, well, how am I treating people? And what kind of friend am I being to others? And I really do think that we influence that as parents, because if we treat our children like the center of the universe,

if we do have that child-centered parenting philosophy, we're going to hurt them in their relationships because they're going to be difficult. You know, it's going to be a friend that expects to be the center of the universe in their friend group. And so they're going to really struggle in those relationships. So I do think when we love our children and, you know, we assure them that they're special, but everyone else is special too. And you're just, you're a small part of a much bigger picture and you're here to serve others and to do good. And just to really see that they have a purpose in this world and these talents that they have to connect with others and to help others that it just, it gives them that sense of purpose. It gives them confidence and it just roots them in something that's solid and not going to change on them overnight.

That's so good. And I've heard you say, I think a couple of times is the micromanaging. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that? Yeah, you know, I think that we kind of live in an age, you know, I think our society, we're more, we have higher income than maybe our previous generations. You know, people have come into money. It's not like you're waiting until you're 50 years old now to have your dream house. I mean, there are some people getting their dream house at age 25 or 30. And so there's more disposable income. And I do think with that, that sometimes there's this mentality of like, okay okay my child's struggling or my child needs this so who can I pay to help them and so it's like feeling like okay they're struggling math what tutor can I help them

you know get to help them or they need to make the baseball team in fifth grade what what throwing coach can I get them in kindergarten it's micromanaging all these little details of their life and or if there's a problem like who can I call to fix this problem? Who can I, how can I fix this situation? And so I think that sometimes we have this false sense of control of trying to micromanage all these little things. And then suddenly when there's a problem that we can't fix, that is out of our control, we don't know what to do, you know, because all of a sudden we're realizing we got to

trust God and that, you know, he's really, there's a, there's a larger force at play here than, than what we think we can do. And so I really do think, obviously we can, we can control a lot of things. We do make choices that impact the path our children are on and their choices. But I think we can get so focused on trying to micromanage everything that we don't really trust, you know, teach them to just, you do your best and then you leave the results to God. Yeah. That was what my dad always told us growing up. And it was, it was my lifesaver because I was very anxious. I always worried about the outcome. He's like, did you do your best? And I was always like, yes. But he's like, well, there's nothing else you could have done. So you just do your

best and you leave the outcome to God. And I just think that we failed to do that because we're trying to micromanage that outcome so many times. Yeah. So do you feel like, so in their teenage years, the micromanaging, I mean, it's like you go from the youngers where you know everything about their life, right? You, you kind of get them to talk about anything. You, you can ask every parent, Hey, did my kid, you know, you can really get in and know everything. And as they become older, you don't know very much or, you know, not as much, or maybe they're, you know, not as much or maybe they're, you know,

it changes. And so do you feel like that's where parents maybe get themselves into trouble where they're trying to like still micromanage like, well, where are you going after? What are you doing after? Well, what? Well, who were you with? And you kind of like trying to note manage too many like of their their the details in their life where that is just feel stifling to them, where they start being like, like, hold on, I don't want to tell you anything because it, do you, do you feel like is that kind of what you're talking about in the teenage years? Yeah, it's that. And also, I think friendship is a good example that, you know, when they're, they're little, we really do have kind of control over who they're hanging around. Like we're going to go to a play group at my friend's house. And, you know, you have this idea,

their little best friend is second grade. You're like, oh, they're going to be college roommates. Like this is perfect. I'm best friends with the mom. And then all of a sudden they grow up and they have their own ideas about friendships. And that little girl that you loved, all of a sudden you're not seeing her anymore.

Nothing bad happened. It's just they've moved on to other people. And so it's very tempting, I think, for moms to keep trying to micromanage it. Or like, I don't want her to be in that friend group. I want her to be in this friend group. And let me be clear, if your child's on a bad path, if there's bad influences in their life, there's a time to get engaged.

But I think with older kids, you've got to be really smart because if you try to micromanage their friendships or their relationships, they will shut you out so fast. And so I think sometimes we try to tell them, instead of telling them who to be friends with, it's better to teach them what does a good friend look like, you know, and what do you, what are the values, what are the qualities that you look for in a good friend, and what kind of friend do you want to be to others? And so I really think it begins with like, I mean, if I had to advise moms behind me, the young moms, I'm like, just teach your child character and teach them values, because it's out of their value system that they're going to choose

their friends. It's out of their value system that if they go to a bad place, they don't want to be there, you know, but it's really their value system. And so if we, if you teach them those values and try to instill that character, they're going to be more equipped to make good choices. And you're not going to have to be making all these choices for them. And if you try to keep making all these choices for them, like I said, they'll shut you out because they're trying to be independent and they feel like you're controlling their life. But it's hard. And like I said, there's a time to step in and intervene. But even in those situations, you have to be so careful because, you know, say there's a child that's a bad influence and that's one of their

best friends. If you come out and just say something ugly about the friend, you got to think, how would you feel if your child said something ugly about your friend? You know, you'd get defensive, you'd get mad. And that's what's going to happen with them. And say, I heard a mom recently put it as, you know, be a cat and not a dog, you know, do things a little bit more discreetly. What do you think about saying to your child? I just don't think I trust them. Like another, like, like their friend, like if they're talking about their friend and something, and then like actually saying, I just don't know. I don't have a great feeling. I don't know if I trust it. Do you feel like that is actually like, what does that do to the,

what do you think of that? Yeah, I think, I think something like that's okay. I think that's like a little, like a little, a little comment where you're like, I don't know, like something, you know, something's giving me a bad feeling here. I don't know what it is. And I tell parents too, one thing that I've realized that has kind of, can kind of diffuse the situation. And it really takes just a little reflection of thinking back on your life. But, you know, say there's, you don't want to talk about their friend, but you want to talk about the situation. You can always say, you know, when I was in high school, you know, I had this friend kind of find a similar situation from your life and the lesson that you learn.

Maybe that person was like this person that's in their life. And you're sharing your story and you're getting the point across, but you're not having to bash that person that is in their life. Yes. And so or it could be. And when I was in high school, I had this friend and, you know, say it's a guy that they're dating. Yeah. And, you know, I had this friend that, you know, she dated this guy. And just to talk about it's a similar situation and it might be able to help you get that message across, but you're not

actually coming out and bashing that person that they like. So I don't know. I think it takes, you know, sometimes with some prayer and some intention, but that's also why I'm a big believer in having these conversations with your children before they're actually in a situation. Like I always say, talk about dating before they're dating somebody or else they're going to think you're saying it only because they're in that relationship and they get so embarrassed. And so it's easier to talk about these situations. Okay, this is what you might see in high school. I did a lot this a lot before my daughter went to college. I'm like, I'm just going to give you the nitty gritty details of college life because I don't want you to be naive and I don't want you to be surprised. I mean, I can't predict everything,

but I'm going to tell you what's going on now that was still going on when I was in college. And so I think just having those conversations before is an issue. It just, it gives them a little bit of wisdom going in and it takes away some of that embarrassment that they might normally have from those conversations. Or if you're talking, trying to make a point about a friend, maybe it's taking the focus off that particular person and more on the type of personality or what the dynamic of what you're seeing. Yeah, that's good. Tell us about a little bit about expectations, expectations that we have on our kids and what expectations we need to have, should not have. What do you think of that? Yeah, you know, I think kindness

is a great expectation is being kind. And especially when you have multiple children, like you have in your house, and I have in my house, I'm like, your siblings are a perfect place to learn this, that learning to speak, speak the truth and love and know that, you know, not every thought that you have needs to be voiced. Okay, see how that hurt your sister's feelings. Or we did this a lot when mine were little, you know, I had one that was two that were very sensitive, one that was very tough, which was great. She didn't get her feelings hurt very easily, but she would just blurt out things that were hurtful. And so, you know, it's just that expectation of like being kind and considerate of other people. I think also we, in our house, you know, we just say, just do your best. You

know, we just expect you to do your best. And if you've done that, then we're good with that. You know, we're good with the outcome. So just that the expectation, just also the expectation to know that you're here to serve others and to think about, you know, what gifts has God given you? What talents do you have that can help others? And to really see in yourself as part of that bigger picture. I guess those are the main expectations I have in our house. Also, I'm trying to teach mine as I get older is just courtesy and manners. And, you know, if you go, if your friend invites you to go stay at their hometown, you know, bring a little gift to their mom, you know, make sure you make the bed or that you strip the bed. Just those expectations of leaving a place better than

you found it. Being a good citizen, being a good friend, just being a good person, those are probably the biggest expectations we try to teach. And what about expectations like in the home of what they're expected? You know, because, I mean, when they're younger, we had family dinner every single night. I mean, it was like dad going home. We had, you know, maybe we pushed dinner out a little bit or brought it forward depending on everyone's schedule. we pushed dinner out a little bit or brought it forward depending on everyone's schedule. And then now it's, you know, it, I mean, I feel like I always remember hearing older parents that are like, oh, we can't even have family dinner anymore. And I remember thinking, oh my gosh, that will never be us because I'm like, we care about family so much, you know, as if they did it.

And then it's just reality is everyone has a job, they are sport, they have got invited to, you know, that are there, but then at the end, but also you're still trying to hold like the family. Do you, do you feel like we just have to let go of those expectations? Like I've been having in my mind thinking like our prime time was up until they were 13 of just having them so much. And we got to dictate everything. And I'm so thankful for all the time we had. But I feel I'm feeling like all those expectations are kind of going out the window, which is

OK. Like I'm not in like grudgingly or feeling like so sorry for us. But it's just it's a different season. And right. Not putting that pressure on the kids of like, you know, being saying like, well, we are not eating together. We're not doing our family day out anymore on Saturdays. But being like going into it, like letting go of those expectations for them.

And what do you think of that? Do you agree with that or have any thoughts? I do. I do. Just because I've learned to do this as a mom. It's like I'm totally shifting gears. I'm like, I might have my middle two daughters together, or I might have my oldest daughter, my youngest daughter together. And obviously I love when we're all together, but it's rare. So for me, I just have to really appreciate those times when we are.

It's one thing I talk about my husband. I'm like, this is why family vacations have become so important to me in recent years, because even if we are all going different directions, okay, I was like, I know we got a family vacation coming up in June. I know we will have our together time then. And I'm really going to treasure that because it's so hard to do. But I do think that just, you know, even going to the beach or doing some kind of little getaway as a family is a good way to have, you know, that that's coming. And that way you can take away some of the expectations during the week and everybody's going different directions. And then also what has helped me is just to really just enjoy who I'm with that, okay, I might not have all four together, but I'm just enjoying this one child that I have today, or I'm enjoying these three that I have together. And that was a

little bit of a mind shift for me because I always wanted to have us all together, you know, all six of us. And it is harder as they get older, But I do think it just creates a little bit more of a peaceful environment. And it just keeps me occupied until those, you know, those moments when we can all be together. And it just really makes those times more special. Yeah. Oh, I so agree with that. Because, you know, your family dynamics as like a whole is a certain dynamic, right? It's like the older two play this role.

The younger two play this role, the younger to play this role and everyone like there's the funny one, then there's the you know, there's like the whole dynamic. And so that's what you've known. And that's what makes your family. But and then you go through this thought all sudden where it's like, Oh, wait, when you break that up, it feels so different. And it doesn't feel like a family. and you really have to go into a different mindset of like well it's still the family it's just the it looks differently and I've always want I always want like each kid to feel like they're like so special and not they're special because of the other sibling or because you know and finding just like you said just that time that like today's the best

day even if I just have one of you because but it but it's, but you have, it's, it's a whole shift because you're not used to that. And you feel like, I remember for a little while, I would be like, well, if not everyone can go, then we won't go, you know? And then it's like, all of a sudden it's like, well, no, we still want to go. And if any, everybody wants to come, you can come. go. And if any, everybody wants to come, you can come. Right. And I think for me, a lot of it was, I had a lot of guilt when I did have all four of them and I was juggling four at one time, like, oh, I just want more one-on-one time with each of them. It was so hard to find those pockets. And so now I'm like, okay, now I get this. And, and you're right. And it's funny to see how the dynamic changes depending on who's missing. And so we had one child, one of the younger ones who used to never really share her opinion or really, you know, have a much of an opinion about where to go because the older sisters were always, you know, they were always dictating, we want to do this or do that. And so, but I'd see her with her friends and she's misaligned, you know, just she wasn't so quiet

like she was with our family. And so it's interesting when, you know, her older sisters are gone, she does take more of that leadership role. And so it's kind of neat. And I think that the key is just, like you said, just kind of being present and being just loving the ones you're with, even if they're not all there at one time, but just really taking advantage of that one-on-one time and really get to know their personality a little bit better. Yeah, that's so good. And I've been thinking that when they're younger, it's loving them is holding on to

them really well. Like that's how you love them. You hold them. And then as they, it's loving them is holding on to them really well. Like that's how you love them. You hold them. And then as they get older, loving them is letting them go. And oh, that's so good. Yeah. And it's like like me being able to like have so much fun tonight, even though I just made a meal and I thought everyone was going to be home and is a little bit disappointing, but it's like they're heading off and, and like letting them go. Because I also have found like made tons of mistakes where when I've like made them feel guilty or when I've like put the pressure on, then, then they don't want to share anything. Like I completely pushed

them away. I put a wall between us and then they don't want to share anything. But if I'm like on their team, so excited for them, putting aside my feelings, my expectations and what I was wanting, team so excited for them, putting aside my feelings, my expectations and what I was wanting, then they so much more want to come back. They want to share, they want to talk, they feel closer. And so it's like letting them go and learning that when they're in the home, not when they go off to college, because obviously you're going to have to let them go when you go to college, but what that looks like in, in their, in, you know, their teen years of letting them go and yeah, not making them feel guilty. I think very easy for us to make them feel guilty, right? Like,

you're not doing that anymore, or you're never doing this. And, and, and that just instantly just pushes them away. Right. And I think we all know, I would say, I don't know if I'd say the majority of adults, but I know, you know, we all know a lot of adults who dread going home. I mean, at 50 years old and dread going to see their mother. They dread, I got to call my mom and they're dreading it. And I just always think, I don't ever want them to dread seeing me or calling me. And they will, if I've got these expectations and this certain way I want it to go. But yeah, you're so right. And it reminds me of a friend that I have, her daughter goes to boarding school and her daughter is very outgoing and she's an only child and she really did all the research and she this was something she really wanted. And, you know, my friend made her think about it for a while and she's like, OK, last I kind of sat down to think about the pros and the cons of the situation.

And I realized that all the cons had to do with me. That she that she really realized that maybe this was the right thing, that she really wanted to do it. And it's been a great situation. But I told her, I was like, that's the kind of mother's love that you only get when you're on the mom's side. You know, your daughter one day realized how much strength it took and how much you really love her to let her go do that. Right. Very true. But nobody prepares you for that when you become a mom. And you're so right. It is that letting go. And I think when we do that you become a mom. And you're so right. It is that letting go.

And I think when we do that well, they are going to want to come home. Yeah. So what are some practical things that you can share with the audience of what will make them want to come home? And what will make them, I mean, obviously, it's going to look different. So I mean, these are generic ideas. But what's going to make them not dread calling mom, dread like having to touch base with mom and dad and come home? What are some things that we can start doing now that will make them like be so excited to come and want to come?

Right. You know, I think little things like, you know, just knowing their love language, like they love certain hamburgers. So, OK, when they come home, have their hamburger waiting for them, you know, having those little things that, that they love. I know with college, like, okay, come home and bring all your laundry. I will do three loaves of laundry. You know, just those little things. But I also do think that, I think the biggest thing, and this is why our health matters, our inner wellness matters, is just being good guides and advisors, because that's really what they need the most as they get older. It's like, and I still call my dad. I mean, he's 86 years old and I'm struggling with something. I'm trying to put something into words and I just need that little nugget. You know, he's that phone call I make and he just gives me that wisdom that

I need. And I think, okay, for me to be that person for my children, I've got to be in a good place. You know, I've got to have a healthy thought life. I've got to be, you know, calm person and really rooted in my faith. And so I think just getting ourselves in that place where we're, we give good advice, basically, you know, that we can see that, that big picture thinking. I think that's one of the things that will keep our kids, you know, calling us and always needing us because, you know, no matter how old we get, you always need people ahead of you, who you can, you know, just let how old we get, you always need people ahead of you who you can, you know, just let me be my sounding board or help me process this, help me think through it. And, you know, I've noticed even with my dad, sometimes he tells me what I know deep down,

but I just need somebody to affirm it. And I think that, you know, really becoming that person for our kids is like teaching them to think for themselves, you know, teaching them to like, okay, what is your gut telling you to do now you know have a sounding board somebody you can run that by somebody that gives you good advice but I really think as we as we become that person for them then they it'll make them you know kind of keep them attached because they do still have so many questions whether it's should I change my major or you know should I go do this for the summer should I take this job I've got these two different opportunities they've got a lot of decisions and what I've learned is that you don't even realize, I don't think we realize how many

conversations we have at home just because we're here. And so you have this feeling like, oh, they're going to go to college and never call me. But I do think that sometimes they'll call you for little things that you never really expected them to just because you're not there to easily answer it. And so it might be like, you know, what's my social security number? Something little, but it gives you an excuse to talk and chat with them. But yeah, my daughter in college, we laugh. We're like, we talk more now than we did when she was at home her senior year. And FaceTime has been the best thing ever. I mean, a lot of times too, she has these pockets

of time, like when she's walking to class and so she'll have a 10 or 15 minute walk. So she'll FaceTime me. And I love it because I'm seeing her. I'm kind of seeing the trees behind her. But she's like, hey, Anna. Hey, Catherine. You know, she's talking to everybody on campus. And I see how happy she is. And it just makes it easier to let go.

I'm just like, she is where she needs to be. Like, this is how it's supposed to be. But yeah, I'm getting to see her face and have that conversation. Yeah. Do you feel like it, like, because, um, cause I always feel like the rockier like years are the last two years at home kind of like where it's, you know, they're, they're flapping their wings. They're trying to like, they think they're older than they are, but they, they're learning the process of being older. And so sometimes maybe you're coming to

the end of that, like their senior year and you're like, oh man, it's, it just feels like it's a big mess. Like it's just, we don't feel close anymore. We don't feel, you know, those things have, do you feel like it like for your own self, but then also with talking to other moms that it really does like come around where they, like once they have their freedom, then they're wanting you more because it's more of their choice. Whereas like when they're at home, it's like your choice. You're projecting it on them. You're in their business. You're asking them.

You're always there. Whereas when they go, then they are wanting you for what they love you for, what you mean to them in their life. Do you find that? Yes. Kind of a loop around? I definitely do. And I remember somebody telling me a couple of years ago,

his daughter had gone to college and I'm like, Oh, is it so sad? You know, he's like, it has been awesome. He's like, she appreciates, she appreciates us so much. And she, he said she used to come home and she'd stay in her room and now she'll sit in the kitchen and talk to us. And so I do think it just, I think, I think also, and I would tell them, I was like, you know, you're going to go to college and see A to Z and you're going to see, you're going to meet people who had great parents and you're going to meet people who had, you know, you're going to go to college and see A to Z and you're going to see, you're going to meet people who had great parents and you're going to meet people who had, you know, terrible upbringings and, you know, very unengaged parents. And so I do think when you've had that connection, when you've been loving them well all along, and all of a sudden

you're not there to do it, that it does make them, you know, oh, I didn't realize all the things mom did for me. Not only just the laundry and these little things that you do, there's, I call it the magic fairy. So they kind of realize that all of a sudden you're not there to do it. And then also, I think just, you know, you get to college and nobody loves you like your parents, you know, nobody's looking out for you like your parents. And even when my mom got sick, you know, years ago, I remember I had a cold one day and I talked to her and she didn't mention anything about it. And I got off the phone and I'm like, I miss her nagging me to go see the doctor. Like I miss her being that voice in my life that, you know, just caring about my health

more than anybody else in this world. And so I do think that and I think they go off and they miss you and they appreciate you and they just need you in a different way. And there is that saying, have you ever heard about like before they leave home, they soil the nest? Oh, yeah. I haven't heard that, but that makes so sense. Yeah. A friend was asking me that recently. Her daughter's a senior. She's like, she is

definitely soiling the nest. So basically sometimes they'll, I don't, I don't think they consciously do it, but they'll just, you know, pick fights or do whatever. But, you know, soiling the nest at home makes it a little bit easier for them to leave home. And so what I kept reminding myself when my daughter, her senior year, she was so excited to go to college and so what I kept reminding myself when my daughter her senior year she was so excited to go to college and so excited to be with her friends and as a mom you're like oh I want them to be with me but then I would sit there and tell myself like what do I want like do I want the opposite of this like her clinging to me yeah scared to death not wanting to be with her friends unhealthy attachment yes and I was like that would be terrible you know and so it really it just got

my heart in the right place. Like I should be OK. I'm gonna be thankful for this and excited and thankful that she is the help to be able to go and do this, have a freshman experience like this. And so I think when we revamp our thinking a lot like that as moms, it makes us, like I said, that that strong person, you know, that center person who is more likely that they want to come home to. Yeah. I do think it's like the Lord's blessing of the process of how it all works to where it almost feels like when it's time for them to go, you're mentally ready for them to go. Because for one, it could be just like, you know, it is like she needs to go or he needs to go because it's, and it's not out of like, you know,

you're not like mad saying that, but it's just like, they can't wait to like go make their own decisions and do their own thing. And they don't want to be having parents looking down their neck about everything. And so it's, it's the, I'm just seeing the process makes total sense of like, where it's like, you know, I I'm happy for you to go, but, but it's like when your kids are like 12 and 30, I remember thinking, oh, my life's going to end when my kids go. Like I know it doesn't, but I feel like in my soul it will. Like I feel like I kept thinking, I just know every day I'm just going to be sad. And then, you know, but then you get to where you're like, no, it's actually so very exciting. Like exciting to go into the next stage too.

And, you know, having like more, more people, your family grows and the different dynamic that it's going to bring. So I think the process. That was the biggest. Yeah. And I think that was the biggest surprise for me is just like how much more happiness you can have. And it is so fun when the, I mean, even like move-in day in the dorm, I mean, her, her roommate's mom and we, we love the roommate. We love the family. We were on the same page, like so sad to see them go. But so I prayed about that day. I mean, her roommate's mom, and we love the roommate. We love the family. We were on the same page, like so sad to see them go. But so I prayed about that day. I was like, I'm going to be just a mess. And I did cry on the way coming home. But the roommate's mom and I talked the next day and we're like, that was the best day. Like we, it was like a magical day. And

I never thought I would have said that about moving her into her college dorm. But we both just felt so good about leaving them with each other. We had helped do their room, all cute. They were so excited. All these girls were coming in. And I'm seeing these girls come in and meet them. And I'm thinking, one of these girls or two of these girls, a few of them, they might be her future bridesmaids. You know, like she is just now, you know, and that year, my best friend from college, her son was going to college too. So we talked a lot that year. And I would think, and her name's Rebecca. And so I would often think when my daughter was meeting people, who's her Rebecca going to be?

You know, like she's just now meeting her Rebecca, this friend that I've had for 30 years. She's on the cusp of doing that. And it is so exciting because you just think back, like, I'm so glad I love that season of life. Like, it was such a fun season of life, just the growth that I experienced and the friendships. And so it is fun to kind of, you almost feel like you go through it again with your children and it does make it more of a joyful process more than just that dagger in the heart. They're leaving me. Yeah. Oh, I love this conversation so much. I feel like it's so

helpful. And so we just need, I'm so thankful for what you do, truly, because I think we just need support. We need help. We need to hear these things more. It's okay. The more you hear, it's okay that the kids are flapping their wings hard and it's hurting you. That's okay. That's part of the process because you start feeling like you're the only case and like my kids are way different and I have strong, like, you know, all my kids are very strong, like in their will and strong and just who they are. And it's like, I'm so excited for it because I'm like, they're going to conquer the world. And I'm

so excited that they're strong. But in the meantime, it's like, can be really hard sometimes because you're like, man, those are some hard hits, you know, but it's like to hear just other people like affirming just that you're okay. We all have those that as well, um, is really, really great. And, um, I wanted to mention your podcast. So, cause I, I was looking, you have a podcast, but they're short little like nuggets. So tell us a little bit about what you do, like about your podcast. Yes. Um, and I really, it's probably one of the last things I prioritize. I just been on the back burner recently because I get to it when I can, but it's called the girl mom podcast. And a lot of times I will take just blog posts that I've written and I'll just turn

it into an audio form. But, but it's been fun. And I've had a lot of people, they might not sit down and read a blog post, but they'll listen to it as a podcast. And so, but I mainly write about raising girls and just different issues. A lot of what we've talked about here, raising girls and also raising teenagers, just the season of life that I'm in to hopefully try to give some hope and encouragement to moms. And what I'm finding, and you probably are too, being in the season of parenting that you are, that I feel like a lot of the people that have probably started listening or following me in recent years are younger than me. And they're looking for that encouragement. They're looking for that guidance. And they might have little girls or little kids. But I just think that that's, it's so fun to be, to be like in that

season where you can throw, you know, give back and let people learn from, this is some of the things I did wrong and some of the things that I'm glad I did. And so just to really share that with the next generation has been really fun. That's awesome. Well, thank you so much. And do you have another book in mind that you're already thinking about? Yeah, you know, I think what I'll probably work on next, I haven't started, is maybe a devotional for teenage girls, but more that older teenage girl going to college. Just because, like I said, that's where my heart is with my girls being that age. And when I left my daughter in her dorm room that day, I'm like, okay, I wish I had a book

to give you. I wanted that final thing. Like when you're having a hard day here, just read this. So that's kind of my thought right now. That's awesome. Oh, I'm excited for that. I feel like, yes, teenage girl devotions, I feel like is definitely a need. I'm always looking like for more of that.

So that's awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. What a wonderful conversation this was. I hope that this was encouraging to many of the listeners out there and make sure you guys check out your website. Can you tell us just how they would find you more of you? You mentioned the podcast. Yes, I have the podcast. I'm also most active on Instagram and Facebook under Carrie Kempakis. And then my website's just CarrieKempakis.com. And I've got a whole archive I've been blogging since about 2013. So lots of old articles there.

Like I said, lots of raising children and parenting and now really focusing on some mom wellness too. Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Carrie. Appreciate it. Thank you, Chris. Yeah, have a great day. I loved it. Well, thanks so much, Keri. Appreciate it. Thank you, Kris. Yeah, have a great day. I loved it.

Thank you so much. Bye-bye. Thank you.