Theology in the Raw - Theology in the Raw 2025!! Preston Sprinkle

Episode Date: January 1, 2025

2024 has been a good year for Theology in the Raw, and we're looking to make 2025 a GREAT year! In this first of the year, I look at listener statistics and demographics, the most popular episodes, future guests, the exiles25 conference, the mission of TITR, and much more.  -- If you've enjoyed this content, please subscribe to my channel! Support Theology in the Raw through Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theologyintheraw Or you can support me directly through Venmo: @Preston-Sprinkle-1 Visit my personal website: https://www.prestonsprinkle.com For questions about faith, sexuality & gender: https://www.centerforfaith.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Logos. Logos is the premier Bible study software. I use Logos almost every single day. I have for many years. In fact, I've been a huge fan of Logos long before they started sponsoring Theology in the Raw. Logos not only gives you a massive theological library right at your fingertips,

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who are already using Logos. And okay, so they just released a new version and it's more affordable than ever. And here's the thing, you can try it for free for 30 days. And if you go to Logos.com forward slash theology, you can take advantage of an exclusive theology in the raw extended two month free trial. So go try it, try it out. It's risk-free. Go check it out. Logos.com forward slash theology. Hello friends. Welcome to theology in a raw 20, 25. I am very excited about the new year. And what I want to do in this episode is sort of look back at some highlights, some things

that we talked about in 2024, share some statistics, read some reviews, talk about the nature of the podcast. And what else we're going to do? We're going to talk about future upcoming guests on the show. We're going to talk about the exiles of Babylon conference in April and much, much more in this first of the year theology, raw podcast. We got no guests today, just myself. So you're going to have to tolerate my monologue here, but I'm super excited to dig in. Okay. Let's start by looking at some stats from 2024. I had a, just a, I just, uh, I mean, I think I've said this several times, but podcasting is one of, uh, my most favorite things that I do in life. I really mean that.

I absolutely love having curious conversations with a diverse range of interesting people. And 2024 was absolutely fantastic. In my book, I, I, you know, think back of the various conversations I had, and I learned so much through conversations. I learned about people, I learned about things that people are interested in, especially when I have experts on that are really well-versed in a certain area,

and I get to just learn from them through a conversation. I absolutely love it. I love it. I do many things in life. I help run a non-profit, the, I absolutely love it. I love it. I do many things in life. I, uh, I help run a nonprofit, the center for face, sexuality and gender. I write books, I speak various, there's lots of like admin kind of responsibilities that, you know, um, occupy my time. A lot of that I don't like. That's probably the least favorite thing I do, emails and such. Um, but podcasting is, is just at the top of the list. I just absolutely love it and I can't imagine not podcasting. So we received, the AlgenRA received 4 million

streams in 2024. Just about, that's a rough number, but it's pretty close to that actually, which equals about 10,700 daily streams at the program, which places the Algenera in apparently, I didn't realize this, the top 0.5% of all podcasts globally. I think that sounds higher than it is. The fact is there are, I don't know how many podcasts are out there, millions,

but the overwhelming majority of podcasts, I learned recently, they don't last or they're not consistent. It's actually a very small percentage of all the podcasts that are consistently putting out episodes. And we've been putting out two episodes a week since 2020. It used to be one episode a week. And we went to two episodes a week in 2020.

And we haven't looked back. We've been doing two episodes a week in 2020, and we, you know, we haven't looked back. We've been doing two episodes for the last four years. Actually, if you go back to the beginning of Theology in the Raw, some of you might know, Theology in the Raw started, before it was a podcast, it was a radio program, a 15-minute radio program, local radio program in Boise, Idaho. And it was called what does the Bible actually say? And it was a, a daily 15 minute radio program. So you might, if you look at how many episodes the all general has had, you know, it's over 1200, you might think, gosh, this guy's been doing, you know, two episodes a week, hour long episodes. And he's been doing over 1200

of these. That's actually not true. The first several hundred episodes of the Algeneragh were just, you know, 15 minute short, um, observations of scripture basically. Um, and so I think we got into this, these several hundred episodes, you know, pretty quickly because we're doing five a week. And then once the radio program stopped, uh, we just kind of rolled it into a podcast, rebranded it as the AlgenRAW. Then we started doing just Q and A. I would get questions from the audience. Like I still do that, you know, twice a month, but that used to be what, just what the show was. And then honestly, I, I think my motivation was, dude, I can't, I can't, this is a ton of work.

I can't keep up with like, you know, once a week, you know, taking all these questions and answering all these questions like that got a bit overwhelming. I'm like, you know, once a week, you know, taking all these questions and answering all these questions like that got a bit overwhelming. I'm like, you know, I, maybe I should start integrating, um, just some, some conversations with people. Those started as kind of 20, 30 minute conversations grew into hour long conversations and then went to two days a week, uh, back in 2020. So that's the short history of theology and raw. So yeah, 4 million streams last year in 2024. Now here, so in 2023, we were recorded with the, the, the stat was 5.7 million streams in 2023. Now that might see, well, it doesn't, it's like, gosh, well, gosh, the Algenra is taking, it's going down a few and fewer listeners, But actually Apple, most people listen on Apple.

I think it's like 70% people that listen on Apple. And Apple last year, they changed the way they record streams. So in the past, prior to last year, they would record anybody who, somebody explain this to me, I hope I get this right. Basically like when you follow a show, a podcast, your phone used to kind of automatically

download the episodes, whether or not you listen to it. And so you might have like, I do, I probably have like 40 podcasts on my app. I might only listen to like three or four consistently, but in the past, Apple was recording, it was making note of anytime my phone simply downloaded an episode. Now, most of the podcasts, I'm not even listening to them.

There's been a podcast, I look at podcasts on my phone. I'm like, I haven't listened to this in like two years. So the previous way of recording streams was completely inflated. It was, it was not accurate. It's not, it was measuring how many episodes were being downloaded on people's phones, but it wasn't actually measuring how many people were listening to those episodes. So I don't know all the details, but they reworked their statistics so that now it is giving a more accurate and hence lower number of readings in terms of how many streams people

got. So I've talked to people in the podcast industry and they said they've seen shows that dropped up to like 50% of recorded streams given the new way that Apple's doing it. So it's impossible to measure if the show has shrunk in audience size, stayed the same or gained in audience size, but going from 4 million to, or sorry, 5.7 to only 4 million. That's actually, I think it's grown actually because you know, a lot of shows are recording, you know, 25 to 50% drop off given the new way they're doing it. So, uh, the general hasn't experienced that much. So all that say, we won't be able to measure how much if, if the show has grown an audience

until next year, when we compare next year. So we have two years of this new way of recording. Okay. Most streamed episodes. Uh, let your mind wander which ones you think they are. Um, the number one, the top performing episode of 2024 theology and raw drum, but another, um, was the episode responding to Alyssa Childers and Dr. Christopher Yuan, uh, which received 52,042 streams in 2024. That was the number one streamed episode. I'm not sure the exact date on that. It was back in the spring of 2024, sometimes. So if you're interested in hearing the most streamed episode, you can go check that one out. That was responding to another podcast, YouTube conversation between

Elissa Childers and Christopher Yuan, where I felt like there were several things that they ascribed to me that were inaccurate. And so I wanted to kind of clear the air on what I actually believe, not what some of my critics say I believe. Okay, so that was the number one stream episode. Number two, I was shocked at this. The second most streamed episode was my episode, Our Husbands, The Head of Their Wives,

The Meaning of Keffale, part one by just myself. This aired on March 18th. Oh yeah, so the Elissa Childers one that was May 9th. I have the date here in front of me now. So why I'm shocked that the second most streamed episode is because that was like a super long, very technical episode, where I kind of walked through some really nitty gritty details about the meaning of the Greek term Kefale, which is translated head. I honestly, I think it was like a two and a half hour episode. I, I, I almost didn't record that. So I'm like, who is going to listen to two and a half hours of very in depth technical, uh, monologue, you know,

about this Greek word. And well, I guess I was wrong. A lot of people were interested in that. And third most downloaded episode or streamed episode. That was this one was with Tim Alberta evangelicals, evangelical isms, fascination or idolatry of cultural and political power. Okay. So Tim Alberta wrote that book for the kingdom and power and glory or something like that. I forget what it was, but yeah, it was a book, really, really good book, really good book documenting kind of the problem of evangelical evangelical isms kind of grasp for political power. That one received a 30, about 39,000 streams. The next, okay. So number four episode does the Bible

affirm same-sex relationships with Dr. Rebecca McLaughlin? Number five was raising boys, masculinity, Jordan Peterson, and why wrestling with your sons keeps them out of prison with Dr. Anthony Bradley. Really loved that episode. Number six was, was the first century church actually, what was the first century church actually like with dr. Nijay Gupta, um, seven sexuality church, celibate partnerships. My response to Chris Yon and Rosario Butterfield and how I handle criticism with my friend Laurie Krieg, uh, the eighth most streamed episode, a raw conversation with Josh girls. Number nine, does the church have a crisis of biblical illiteracy with Jen Wilkin and the number 10, how to tell the truth with, truth with Preston Perry, man. Yeah. Little

walk down memory lane. The audience breakdown from last year. Okay. Lat the year before in 2023, the audience breakdown in terms of male and female was about 60, 40, 60% male, 40% female. I was really excited about that because as a most podcasts that had their, their, their audience is dominated by the sex of the host typically. And so to have, to have 40% female with a male host, I thought that was, I was really little bummed. I think that in 2024, my audience was 66% male and 34% female. So that gives us a slight drop off in, well, I don't know. Is it a drop off in female listenership or is it simply an increase in male listenership? We can't really tell, but I would love to, obviously I would love to have it 50, 50% or close to it.

I do try to have, in terms of my guests, I don't know if I've said this publicly, I think I have, I do try pretty hard to have as close to 50% male and 50% female guests. That doesn't always work out that way for various reasons. A lot of times I'll reach out to a bunch of people to come on the show and it might, so it might happen. It might happen that, you know, several men that I reach out to say yes. And several women say they can't do it. I don't want to do it. I don't hear back or whatever. So that's another thing you don't see that goes on behind the scenes is like how many times I'm reaching out to people to be on the podcast and I simply don't hear back or can't find their email or post a message in

their website and I never hear back or they simply can't do it or they're on sabbatical and they say reach back out next year or whatever. There's a lot more people I'm reaching out to that don't end up on the podcast. So, but just so you know, like I do, I do try to get about a 50-50 balance. So sometimes it's kind of streaky. Like I remember looking back, I don't know if it was last year or the year before, when I looked back and you know,

as I'm scheduling things, sometimes I'm not keeping track of who's going where, which podcast is being released, but there was a stretch where it was like two months, where it was like one female guest and the rest were men. I'm like, all right, I really want to make sure we maintain healthy diversity here. So yeah, if you see a whole string of all male or even all female guests, just know that that's not, that's not a tent. I do try to be aware of that and try to balance it out as best as I can. The age breakdown. I was really surprised at this. Okay. Let's go through the, how old

are the people listening to this podcast? Let me just say upfront, it is extremely diverse in terms of age. Okay. Let's start at the youngest audience, 18 to 24. So older gen Z that only makes up 2.5% of my audience. That's by far the smallest age demographic is 18 to 24 year olds. Then there's a big jump when you get to 25 to 34 year olds to 19.9. Let's just call it 20%, 20%, 20% of y'all are younger millennials, 25 to 34. All right, 35 to 44. So now we're getting closer to my age. This is the largest demographic at 22%, 22% of the all general listeners are 35 to 44

year old. 18% are 45 to 54. So that's my age there. I'm 48. So I'm right in the middle of this. Um, 18%. So, so far apart from the Gen Z, we've got a pretty, pretty, almost almost equal breakdown here. The second lowest age demographic next to Gen Z is our, our 55 to 64 year olds, older Gen Xers, younger boomers, 17.8% are within that age range. Now here's the one that excites me. I can't tell you how this just thrills me. 19.8%. This is the second just about, it's almost like tide for second largest demographic are 65 and over basically 20% of you are 65 and older. Why am I excited about that? Because typically, typically a host is going to attract people basically largely around their age or maybe

younger. And I think a lot of people assume theology into raw. It's got a younger vibe. It's going to appeal for a more younger audience. And it does. There's, you know, a lot, a lot of listeners that are my age or younger, but 20% are over 65. I love that so much. And, um, you know, I think about like the people that I have conversations with on, on through our patron community. And not now that I think about it, when I looked at the staff, I'm like, yeah, a lot of people I interact with that we have zoom chats with and messages and stuff. I'm like, yeah, they're, they're a lot, a lot of them decent percentage or my age or older. Yeah. I, I'm just, yeah, I'm, as my mom would say, tickled pink by seeing the diversity in the age breakdown.

by seeing the diversity in the age breakdown. All right, let's move on to... Let me state the mission of Theology of the Raw again. I got to do this every year. The Theology of the Raw podcast aims to help believers think Christianly about theological and cultural issues by engaging in curious conversations with a diverse range of thoughtful people. I've reflected a lot on the nature of the genre of podcasting. It's so new to society, relatively speaking. Podcasts have been around for 10, 15 years, whatever. It's a fairly new medium of information or conversations. it is a bit different. I think we're still a

lot of podcasts is still a bit of a wet cement, but the genre of podcasts is a really broad genre. I mean, you could, you could have a podcast that is more debate oriented. So you have on guests that you disagree with so that you can debate them. I'm thinking of, you know, Pierce Morgan often has, you know, I, I watch Pierce Morgan a lot. Some of them are Interesting some of them are just really frustrating or just I mean some of them are just downright people yelling at each other and stuff It's like that that that's one way to go about it I have a couple people on that are just gonna just gonna go after each other Podcasts can also just be teaching I could like like my, my good friend, John Whitaker, his, his podcast,

why am I blinking on the name of it? John, my apologies. I listened to it. Okay. The listener's commentary, my word, apologize, John, the listener's commentary. This is where John just basically gives a commentary on the biblical texts. He is teaching people the Bible and he's like, according to my best understanding, this is what the Bible means. I believe it and so should you. He doesn't say it like that. I mean, it's very, the tone's not like that, but I mean, that's kind of what he's doing. He's teaching the Bible. And I think that's an incredible use of a podcast.

You can also have like planned conversations. I think when I listen to the office ladies, I do listen to the office ladies, or anyway, if you don't know what that is, then you don't know. If you do, you know exactly what I'm talking about. When they talk, it feels a little bit scripted. Like I think they plan ahead of time, okay, I'm going to say this, I'm going to say that. Maybe not. Maybe it's not. It just doesn't feel as natural. It feels a little bit planned for the most part. So, theology in the raw is kind of none of those things. I might dabble in each one of those. I might, every now and again, I did have a debate last year. I do do some direct more teaching, but most of

my conversations are unplanned, unscripted, curious conversations with a diverse range of interesting people, not just people I agree with, but people I might not a debater. I don't like debates. I'm not skilled at that. I do think they fall into performance, you know, people not trying to be a good person. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I do think they fall into performance. You know, people not trying to get closer to the truth, but just simply trying to win a debate, win the audience.

And I just don't like that. I don't, people are, sometimes people are gifted at that. I'm just, I'm not, I don't like it. And I just don't like the performance aspect of it. Anyway, so if I have somebody on that, I'm like, I probably have a lot of disagreements with this person. I'm not typically, I'm not, I don't like it, and I just don't like the performance aspect of it. Anyway, so if I have somebody on that I'm like, I probably have a lot of disagreements with this person. I'm not typically going to have them on to debate, but I might have them on as sort of

like, if I can, I don't know, I've never heard this phrase before, but like theological journalism. For instance, let me just name a name. I had Pete Enns on a while back, okay? Pete Enns and I have some, I'm sure ends on well back. Okay. And Peter, Pete ends. And I have some, I'm sure we have things we would disagree on theologically. I think, I think he would say the same thing. I had Pete on not to debate him, not to show him where he's wrong, but to simply get to know what does Pete ends actually believes. I've heard lots of critics of Pete ends say what they think he believes. I want to hear from Pete ends. What do you believe? It was theological journal. It was like me, me interviewing somebody simply to try to understand their beliefs more. And

I remember in that episode, um, he said that he was a panentheist. They like God is in everything. I was like, huh? I'm thinking in my mind when he said that like, pretty sure that's her heresy. If God is literally in everything that we should worship everything. So the ceiling, the ground, the rock, we should be worshiping that. I, is that what pidence believes? Or is there some other understanding of panentheism that maybe he means something different by the term? This is, this is, this is my internal split second kind of what was going on in my mind. So instead of saying panentheism, well, here's what this means, Pete. And this is why you're a heretic. I was like, I wonder if he means something different by that term. So what do you mean by that term? And when he explained it, it didn't seem for my mind, really super peretical.

Again, I would need more time to kind of think through that. But that's another aspect of genuine curious conversations is I'm not, if I hear something I think I might not agree with, they've explained it and I wouldn't know how to counter that, then I'm going to just table it in my mind and say, okay, maybe I need to go and revisit this issue at a later time. I can't do that here in live time. Hey, Pete, pause for three hours. I'm going to go read a chapter of a book and see if you're a heretic or not. If you are coming at the podcast expecting nothing but direct teaching, here is what

is true, here is what you should believe, I'm having this guest on because I want you to believe everything they say, then you're going to be very frustrated at theology in the raw. That is not the goal of the podcast. And there's other podcasts that do that and do it well. And I think there should be podcasts to do that and do it well. That's just simply not what theology in the raw is. So I'll say this one more time. I probably don't need to say this because I think it's kind of, I think it's waning out, but the whole concern about platforming, you know, that the, the, the noun platform has become a verbal last few years and there's been this, you know, kind of like a, a, kind of a, a big concern on both the left and the right about platforming people on the other side.

And, and I'll, and I'll get that accusation. I feel like I get it less now. I feel like that kind of the fear of platforming was big and like over the last few years, I feel like I get it less now. I feel like that kind of the fear of platforming was big and like over the last few years, I feel like it's starting to wane now. I feel like people are kind of tired of that. Um, but yeah, it doesn't, it just doesn't, um, concern about me platforming certain guests. I think that misunderstands the nature and genre of the kind of conversations I'm having. If I had somebody on and they're preaching tons of error and I gave the impression like, Hey, you guys should believe this. This guy doesn't believe in the Trinity. And yeah, you guys shouldn't believe in the Trinity. Like if I was, I could

see somebody being concerned if that was the case, but that's just not the nature of the kinds of conversations that we're having. Quick word about advertisements. Okay. So we are, I haven't talked about this in the podcast too much, but how, how do, how do I screen advertisements? All of our advertisement, all the things I advertise are things that I am reading. So I have to feel comfortable enough in the product that somebody should, I think somebody should consider this product if it sounds like something that they need or want, or it'd be good for their life. I don't need to be so sold on the product that I'm like, kind of tell people, you must

buy this. You should absolutely buy this. The best thing in the world. Like I, I, I couldn't, couldn't do that. There are some products that, I mean, a classic example would be like Athletic Greens, which I've been taking long before I started advertising it. And I actually love this product. I think it's actually extremely good for you. It's among the best supplements that I personally have come across, and I noticed a difference and on and on.

All the stuff I say about that product, I believe. Like they're not giving me what to say, I'm saying that. There are other products that I'm less, Hey, I'm not sure I would purchase this simply for no specific reason, but it might be something that somebody else might be interested in. There's, for instance, I haven't advertised this yet, but there's some podcasts advertise a certain kind of dog food. Ah, and I wonder like, would I be able to advertise that? I'm like, well, I have a dog. I actually love my dog. Like I, yeah, I have a dog. I have a dog. I have a dog. I have a dog. I have a dog. I have a dog. I have a dog. I have a dog kind of dog food. And I wonder, like, would I be able to advertise that? I'm like, well, I have a dog.

I actually love my dog. Like, yeah, I'm obsessed with my dog, actually. My kids say, you're constantly petting Tank, my dog's biggest Tank. Sometimes I don't even realize it. Like, I just, I need to be like touching my dog's head and his floppy ears and just, I love my dog. And so I need to feed my dog. And so I need to give my dog dog food. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,

I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like seemed like a good product, doesn't mean I'm like championing dog food now. What if it's like, well, no, I, I think I could let people know about that. So all that to say, I do battle with the whole advertising thing because it can, I mean, marketing and advertising and gimmicks and, you know, I scroll on like Instagram and I get all these advertisements and I'm like, I just, there's something about that world that feels icky. At the same time, people do want to know about certain products that are out there.

I mean, it's just, it's kind of inevitable. So I'm, I'm, I want you to know that I am, I am constantly battling that line, like choosing advertisements that I think are worth considering and not falling into some sleazy salesman mode or something. And yet sales isn't intrinsically bad. Selling products isn't intrinsically bad. But yeah, so I want you to know that I turn down most advertisements that come my way. I get suggested a lot and I'm constantly screening different products.

Maybe that's something that would be good to know too. It's not like somebody says, Hey, can you promote this? I'm like, sent it to me, who recommended it. I'm looking at the nature of the product. I'm reading the website, doing as much as I can. Of course, I can't fly out and meet the CEO and really sit down and get to know the vision or whatever the company, but I do try to do enough to where I feel good that, hey, I think this is a great product. I'm not going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able

to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be on the show. Uh, Malcolm Foley. I'm really looking forward to this one. I got to know Malcolm last fall and really, really love his theological, uh, passion. And the dude's just amazing.

And Nijay Gupta has been on a couple of times. He's coming back on. Carmen. I'm just been on. She's coming back on Sharon. Hottie Miller. It's been a while since Sharon's been on Nancy Piercy. I've already recorded that one. You're going to love that episode. The toxic war of masculinity, Mark nation, who is a Bonhoeffer scholar who disagrees significantly with, um, Eric Metaxas is famous work of Bonhoeffer. Um, he's going to be on the show to set us straight over who Bonhoeffer actually was. And then Brian's on and Jane Newman talking about rock and roll. We'll see how that one goes. There's not going to be a, maybe, maybe we'll squeeze in some theology to why should Christians care about rock and roll, but we're just going

to talk about who the best bands are and banter around. So I'm actually about to record that one right now. So by the time you listen to this, it will be already been recorded and we'll be coming out in January. Last but not least, we have our exiles and Babylon conference. I am so excited about this April 3rd to 5th, Minneapolis, Minnesota, kind of going back to the whole platforming thing. Like the exiles and Babylon conference is a blend of speakers that are communicating truth that I think everybody should believe, and there's also speakers that are sharing their perspective that I want Christians to think through. We make this very clear at the conference that you're going to have a range of these things. In fact,

we have two of the four sessions in particular, evangelicalism good for this country and two perspective on social justice and the gospel that are going to have, I mean, very clearly different perspectives. Also, we are having a session on transgender people in the church. Now, Mark Yarhouse is a psychologist expert in the field, and then he's going to give a talk. I'm going to give a talk. I'm going to give that he's going to get the psychological perspective. I'm going to give a theological perspective. Those sort of mainstage talks are more in the genre of we think this is true. You know, you should consider this. Then we're also, of course, not, not neither Mark or I are trans identified. So of course we're going to have

a few different testimonies from trans identified people or formerly trans identified people. We're still working out the details there, but we're probably going to have a non transitioned, non binary identified Christian, a transitioned trans woman who is not a Christian, and a person who has de-transitioned, who is going to be maybe much more critical of certain trans ideologies. You are going to agree and disagree with some of those testimonies. That's not the point. The point of a testimony is not to say, agree with everything this person says. The point of these testimonies is to give you a range of stories so that you can understand the beautiful diversity of trans experiences. Now some people are going to look at the website and say, you're platforming this person, you're

platforming that person. I'm going to roll my eyes and say, you don't get what we are doing. Non-negotiable for me is I think it's very, very important for Christians to listen to people, listen to stories. Not so that you can agree with everything, but simply so that you can understand what is going on. All right, friends, thanks for This show is part of the Converge Podcast Network. Hey friends, Rachel Grohl here from the Hearing Jesus Podcast. Do you ever wonder if you're truly hearing from God? Are you tired of trying to figure it all out on your own?

The Hearing Jesus Podcast is here to help you live out your faith every single day, and together we will break down these walls by digging deeply into God's word in a way that you can really understand it. If this sounds like the kind of journey you want to go on, please join us on the Hearing Jesus podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, I'm Haven, and as long as I can remember,

I have had different curiosities and thoughts and ideas that I like to explore, usually with a girlfriend over a matcha latte. But then when I had kids, I just didn't have the same time that I did before for the one-on-ones that I crave. So I started Haven the Podcast. It's a safe space for curiosity and conversation.

And we talk about everything from relationships to parenting to friendships to even your view of yourself and we don't have answers or solutions but I think the power is actually in the questions so I love for you to join me Haven the podcast