Theology in the Raw - Transition, Detransition, and The Gospel: Kyla Gillespie

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

Exiles in Babylon is coming soon! Join us in Minneapolis, April 30-May 2, 2026. Details hereKyla Gillespie is the founder of Renewed & Transformed Ministries and author of TransFormed: The Power of God’s Word and God’s People in One Woman’s Journey through Gender Confusion, Reassignment Surgery, and Detransitioning. As an international speaker and podcaster, she shares her journey through same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria to point others to the hope and power of Jesus Christ. She lives in Greater Vancouver, B.C., and is an active member of Gospel City Church.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I was in this disillusion. When I looked at pictures of myself, I saw a boy. But looking back on those pictures, I was like, no, like, I can see feminine qualities of Kyla as a teenager, as a young adult. But I was so blind to that while I was chasing the desires that I wanted. And that was transition, ultimately. Hey, friends, welcome back to another episode of Theology in the Rha. My guest today is my friend Kyla Gillespie, who is the founder of Renewed and Transformed

and the author of her new book, Transformed, The Power of God's Word and God's People in one woman's journey through gender confusion, reassignment surgery, and detransitioning. As an international speaker and podcaster, Kyla shares her journey through same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria to point others to the hope, the power of Jesus Christ. She lives in the greater Vancouver, BC area. and as an active member of Gospel City Church, you are going to be moved by this conversation. Kyla is just a gift. She has had quite the journey. And her book, which I'm currently reading, I'm halfway through, it is so good. It is, as I say in the podcast, it's really hard to put down.

So I'd encourage you to check it out. Kyla, if you remember, if you were at the Exiles conference a few years ago, she spoke at the Exiles Conference in Boise back in, I think it was 2023. So some of you are going to be familiar with her story and be hopefully moved by again. And yeah, just a reminder, speaking of Exiles, coming right up. Exiles 26 in Minneapolis, Minnesota, April 3rd to May 2nd. It is going to be encouraging, challenging, hopefully a blessing. And I couldn't. not be more excited about it. If you haven't signed up yet, you're going to want to do so soon. Space is filling up. Theology in the raw.com. All the information is there. Okay, please welcome back to the show. The one and only, Kylie Gillespie. Kyla, it is so good to see you again.

You know, we've known each other for several years now. We met when you first, gosh, you were like six months into your Christian faith and even in the process of detransitioning. And it was wrong. You've come so far. And now you have book coming out. I'll hold it up for my YouTube audience transformed the power of God's word and God's people in one woman's journey through gender confusion, reassignment surgery and detransitioning. First of all, as I've told you, I could not put this book down. You know, and there's books that have like really good content and like, oh, yeah, this is, you know, good stuff. But this was just so engaging.

You wanted to details with your story. And I love, I feel like I was watching a movie. I mean, it was so good. The content was good. The way you told your story was super powerful. And so now I feel like I knew and I know you. Because I mean, I've heard bits and pieces of this, but not. There's so many details that we haven't had a chance to really.

pack. What led you to want to put your story into print? There's got to be a story there. Well, first of all, thank you so much for being, for having me on your podcast. It's always an honor. Yeah, early on, it was so raw when I first came and, you know, we did Grace 2.0 and just spoke on panels with you. And I remember those days to this day that launched me into even the ministry that I'm doing today. But yeah, what I was really thinking, like, this is a very vulnerable story memoir. I felt the vulnerability as I poured out my heart and my life to hopefully help other people and equip the church to love more radically in grace and truth.

So my passion in my heart was to be vulnerable without, without triggering a lot of things in my story because it is very, you know, mature content. Also, you know, it has lots of stuff, you know, that's fun to read about hockey and, you know, fishing and, you know, detransitioning and hanging out with my friends. And so, yeah, I just really didn't know the direction that God would lead me in this book until I started to write and through that process, you know, I'm glad that you felt like you're walking alongside me in this in this story of my life. You had, I didn't not real, I mean, gosh, layers of trauma with your, my heart was just fell out of my chest every time you described your dad just distancing himself.

And then, gosh, that time you got jumped. by some of your teammates and and that that was I was just like oh my gosh and you've had several other encounters of people that you know he trusted and kind of betrayed you can you speak into that a little bit because I think that's that's all that kind of feeds into your story right um my dad's abandonment of me which I explained deeper in in my book um it was like he got remarried with five kids. No, it's not like he did. He did. But in the process of getting remarried, he said, and I share this in the book, like, it's just easier to start over with another family. Now, if I take you back a little bit more, like my dad was my biggest fan. He took me to every single practice, game, volleyball,

basketball, soft, softball, everything. So he was really in my life. And there was two years, almost where my mom got remarried. And then my dad was single. And so I lived with him on weekends. and we really had a close-knit relationship. And so I looked up to my dad. I say this in my book as my hero, someone that I wanted to be like. And so when he said that, it just crushed me. Like, it fueled a lot.

Like, we make our own choices in life, but they are affected by the trauma in our life, especially the abandonment of a, you know, a father for a girl in their teens is really huge. and you know this, you have teenage, well, adult now kids, right? And you're a huge part of their life. And that shows them, the godly man in their life shows them that they don't need to get other things that are unhealthy from relationships and from other men, which I lacked that, you know, guidance from my own father. And so that really, you know, changed the trajectory of my life. when I started drinking, I was able to, at first, suppress the anger that I had in the

disappointment in the abandonment of my father. But then it started to come out in the actions. Like once I started drinking, I would black out. And then I became a really angry person when I was drinking, which caused a lot of, you know, ripple effects throughout my life with my friendships, my girlfriends, you know, every relationship really leading up to recovery in 2011. And it was really to not only numb my gender and my sexuality and all the dysphoria that I felt and the same-sex attraction, but also the hurt and pain from my father's abandonment. It made me think just like, theoretically, when we fall into sin like that, it's almost like this combination of making bad choices, but also a response to pain that's been

done to us, you know? And that's just so hard to untangle. You know, it's like we're both a victim to sin, capital S sin, social environment things done to us. And then that feeds into why we make bad choices. We're still, you know, responsible for those choices. But it's not, it's, it's, it's complicated, you know. And I just felt that as you were just searching to numb the pain. And the more pain you had, the more you kept searching to numb it with, you know, relationships or, or binge drinking. or even like an idolatry of hockey or success in in athletics, you know. So yeah, it's just, I felt so heartbroken for you, little Kyla. You know, like, oh, man.

Yeah. So I'm curious with your dysphoria because you explained that you had, you know, what we now call like early onset dysphoria from a very early age. Did these traumatic events, did you feel that exacerbating that as well? Or is it hard to draw a one-to-one link to dysphoria in life circumstances? Right. Yeah, I've tried to untangle it. I ask God all the time, God, would you show me the intricate parts of, you know, my gender dysphoria so I could understand it in deeper measures? And he has, but I don't understand how, you know, like I'm raised in a Christian home. So this to me gets confusing sometimes. And many people,

that might be listening could understand and relate to this. It's like you, we know we come from a broken and fallen world, so we all have bent desires and thoughts and everything like that. But at five years old, just remembering that I love Jesus raised in a Christian home and to, you know, realize that, oh my goodness, I'm not a boy. I actually remember saying, like, why can't I be normal like the other boys? But what five-year-old says that? And that was like a really big picture of like how I wrestled and struggled so early in my life with my gender. Now, even growing up, like being attracted to the same sex at youth group, that was really difficult too because, you know, my friends were attracted to the opposite sex. And I realized like big time in my

teen years at youth group that I had a really close friend. And she actually, I wanted more than a friendship, but I knew from being raised in a Christian home and I had heard about homosexuality. And I concluded, like, something must be deeply wrong with me to feel those feelings when they were unwanted. And so I would pray and I would cry out to God. Like, I'm not even joking, like, every night before I would go to sleep in tears, just asking God to take that away. But in my story, he didn't. And I can see, you know, looking back, now a distorted view of God's character, God's love, and the gospel in general, because I thought what I did is suppressed everything because I was so afraid to tell another human being,

especially a Christian that I had these feelings because I felt like everyone would abandon me and leave me and then kick me out of the church. Walk us through what was going on inside of you when you discovered that there is this thing called transitioning. I know you had a friend that went through the process and you were like, oh my gosh, you can just like change your body, you know? And then, yeah, from when you first discovered that this was a possibility and then you pursued that, took a long time. Yeah, walk us through what was going on within you during that process. Yeah, I think in my ball hockey days, like when I wasn't playing hockey in the summer, I would play ball hockey because you're

running and you're chasing a ball, why not, right? Putting it in a net, it's kind of like hockey, ice hockey. And so I played that. And in that, there was this one particular friend of mine who, at the end of the year, announced to our team that she wasn't going to play next year with us. And she was a really close friend of mine. And I was like, why? And that was the first time I ever heard her say, I'm transgender. I'm changing my name. I'm getting on testosterone and I'm transitioning fully with surgery.

And that blew my mind. I had met like butch women in the LGBTQ plus community and that I played hockey with that expressed themselves more as masculine. But never in my life had I had experienced someone transform in front of my very eyes. And I felt a grievance for my friend

because not only would, you know, she change into male and go through the transition, but a lot of her life would change, no longer playing female hockey. And that was the same for me. And so that was a particular moment. And then I had a couple other friends that were transitioning. And I could just see their journey before me. And I really, really desired what they had. I thought that if I did what.

what they did, then I would feel congruence for once in my life. People wouldn't look at me and misgender me. I would feel more comfortable in what we call, like the saying, your own body. Because there was such attention and discomfort within me that I was literally screaming for anything to take that away and help me. And then there was Chas Bono back in, you know, this was like, what, 2003? when I was experiencing this really, really early, 2005 even. And so then I watched that and then you could go on YouTube.

There wasn't very many. Like today we have so many people that are, you know, recording their transition and it's common within school systems to have transgender friends. Even in church, people are walking in and they're transgender. But it wasn't cool back then, nor was it even, you know, popular or talk. talked about, it was very quiet. Wow. Were you nervous? Excited both when you decided to go see the doctor and start taking these steps? I remember being really, really excited. For once, I felt like maybe someone would hear me and know how to diagnose me, know how to help me. So there was this

built up excitement. One, I looked at my friends and I wanted what they had. And so I was that close to getting it. And to just like the hope that something might be congruent in my life and make me feel whole or complete even was exciting to me. And at that time, I wasn't following Jesus. You know, I had gone into recovery and it was Christian facility. And recovery was very accepting of, you know, if you're gay or, you're straight, like whatever, transgender, no one really judged you. And so I was in that environment.

And I was willing to give God my addiction. Here, you can have my alcoholism because that's, that's just ripped my life apart and, and taking me out. But I'm not really willing to give you my sexuality and gender. And so at that time, I wasn't really following Jesus with my entire life. Did you were you lived as Bryson for five years. Did your transition, did it reduce or get rid of your dysphoria? Was it were you super happy about it or were there some, you know, or was it more complicated than that? I think you've told me this in the past. I truly forget what, how you described those five years.

Yeah, it was almost six years, so 2011 to 17. Yes, it did alleviate some of my gender dysphoria and congruence in the fact that when I looked in the mirror, I would see a reflection of how I felt. You know, and that I, when I started to pass probably a year into my transition, people would actually look at me and say, hi, sir, or, you know, address me as male. And that felt good. It felt like people were seeing me for who I thought I was the whole time. And so although I knew that I was born a girl, I was in this disillusion that I wasn't a girl. And I think I told you this last time when we were talking. Like when I looked at pictures of myself, I saw a boy.

But looking back on those pictures, I was like, no, like I can see feminine qualities of Kyla as a teenager, as a young adult. But I was so blind to that while I was, you know, chasing the desires that I wanted. And that was transition ultimately. I love seafood, but I never know what to buy in the store, not just because, of the quality of the fish. I mean, there's a lot of sketchy-looking fish out there, but because I care about sustainability and I don't want to eat fish from farms. That's why I'm so glad that I discovered Wild Alaskan Company. Wild Alaskan is the best way to get perfectly portioned, nutrient-dense seafood delivered directly to your door. This fish is wild caught in Alaska,

and every order supports sustainable harvesting practices. My last box was filled with three types of salmon, Pacific halibut, and Pacific cod, all filleted and ready to go. Man, I cooked up that Pacific cod in a skillet with a delicious lemony sauce, and it was absolutely incredible. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wild-alaskan.com forward slash T-I-TR for $35 off your first box of premium wild-cott seafood. That's wild-alaskan.com slash t-I-T-R for $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. Before I got my new mattress from Brooklyn Bedding, I assume that waking up with a sore back was just a natural part of aging. It took me just a few nights of sleep on my plank firm Lux mattress to realize that I don't need to wake up feeling like I got hit by a Mack truck every morning.

My new mattress is sturdy and just feels really high quality, like a bed in a nice hotel. Wake up feeling great. Brooklyn Betty knows sleep isn't one size fits all. That's why they offer mattresses for everybody, every sleep style, every sleep style. even in hard-defined sizes, whether you sleep in your back or your side or prefer something soft or firm or super firm, they have the mattress for you. And they also offer a 120-day trial. So if you don't love it, they'll help you return it or swap it out, hassle-free. You can just head over to Brooklynbetting.com and use my promo code T-I-T-R at checkout to get 30% off site-wide. This offer

is not available anywhere else. That's Brooklynbetting.com and promo code T-I-T-R-E-R-E-R-E-A-R-E-R-A-R-E-R-A. for 30% off sitewide. Support our show and let them know that we sent you after checkout. Again, that's Brooklynbetting.com promo code TITR. Your chapter, I think it's chapter five. It's called Radical Love, chapter six on page 95 that starts. You talk about, you know, you were already kind of going to this ministry called God Rock off and on, I think, or just with your, you're getting ready to say, I need.

to get out of here. But then there were some new ministry leaders, Jess and BJ. I feel like I know, shout out to Jess and BJ. We need to hang out because I've heard about you through Kylo for many years and now reading this chapter. It blew my mind because of what I think is just the simplicity of following Jesus. And yet, yeah, I want you.

you to speak into this because, yeah, the way you describe their approach to you where they were clearly submitted to the Lordship of Christ. They were honest, they asked honest questions, even, I think even said, like direct questions with compassion and empathy, you know? Like, they didn't shy away from the hard questions, but you weren't, you, you enjoyed that because it was layered with thick compassion and genuine love. They said several times we are not, we're going to walk this with you. This is new to us, whatever, you know, but we're not going anywhere. Can you, I want you to unpack that time in your life when you encountered Jesus, as you say, through Jess and BJ. Yeah. I wish this was a case for every single person within the church that's

rustling and struggling, the marginalized and the broken. I wish they could experience. And I pray that we will be the body of Christ where we do extend grace. and mercy at the same time as loving somebody in the mess that, you know, like that they're in and not expecting a time frame for someone to be fixed. There's no fixing. There's healing and there's restoration through Christ. And that comes over time. And so one thing that as they started to take over the ministry, the whole ministry changed because they were actually like speaking the word of God instead of just, you know, a verse here. verse there about love and acceptance. Like I love the ministry, but when they took over, it was verse by verse, by verse and nothing was left out. Also, they opened up community groups. And that allowed us to have deeper relationships because, you know, we know as Christians

that if we show up on a Sunday or go to a ministry once a week, that's not enough. We need the closeness of our brothers and sisters to do the Christian walk as God, commands us to do, to love one another, to exhort one another, to correct one another. And that's done within the context of the local church. And so when they started to really open up the word of God and have these other groups, I actually sat back and I, because I had grown up in a church, right? And back in the 80s and 90s, it was very like outward appearance. As long as the outward appearance is good, you know, don't talk about the inward appearance or what's going and rustling around inside of you. And so they opened up with vulnerability. They were sharing parts of their story with wisdom, of course, in groups. And as I

started to look at their lives and hear them and watch them, they were the same on a Saturday night at the ministry as they were on a Wednesday night at community group, as they were with a coffee, on a Friday or something like that, it was never changing. What they loved more than anything was God's word and God, and they loved others. And they loved me.

And so we started to grow this, you know, this relationship to one to another of trust. I had always wanted deep, deep down, I believed that that was the way that a Christian, like the church was supposed to act. and behave and and disciple others, except for I had never experienced it before. So the love that they showed me, I share this in my book quite often is like, they might have said something really hard

and I got angry, but man, it couldn't shake that they loved me. They loved me even when they spoke hard, you know, truth to me. And I had to go wrestle with those things and come back to them and ask some questions and they were always there with open arms. Can you go into details there? Like, when you say that they loved you, because I get this question all the time. I mean, it's such a broad 30,000 foot question. Like, well, how do I love when there's, you know, disagreement? What was it about them that convinced you that they genuinely loved you and almost gave, provided, you know, as people say, safe space to be able to speak truth and say things that were hard for you to hear, but it didn't cause you to run away. Like what?

Can you unpack their love for you? Yeah, it was their consistency, their intentionality, their willingness to, even though they might not understand anything, like they said to me, like, we have never walked with a transgender person. We are going to need so much grace extended to us. Would you as we walk this out? And I said, yeah, you probably are. And then I realized, like, within that minute, oh, my goodness, I'm going to hurt them, too.

I'm going to get defensive. and I got to ask for grace extended to me. And so there was always this openness to talk, like you said, a safe place to bring your brokenness and walk with another human being in a way that is God honoring and also honoring as a relationship that might have personal things that maybe we don't want, I don't want to share with the broader scope of the church. and that kind of stuff. So I say Jess is like a vault.

What you tell her stays with her. And that's what I love about her is because even sometimes I'm like, did you tell BJ? And she's like, no. I'm like, you have freedom to tell BJ because I know that in a relationship of marriage, it's important that secrets aren't kept. But she's still honored my dignity and my story. And then I shared it with BJ. And just when he looked at me, I could see the compassion and the tears welling up.

And he said, I love you even more, Bryson. And later on asking, I'm like, what do you mean by that? You love me even more. And he said, it's the vulnerability that you trust us with your story and your life. That gives us deeper relationship with one another. And so over time, no matter what they did, they stayed consistent in my life. And I couldn't deny that they loved me. How did they react when you told them that you were actually feeling?

email because you showed me pictures of Bryson. Yeah. You know, and I was like, I mean, you, you passed as a man. It seems like, you know, nobody like, were they, were they shocked? Were they like, what was their reaction? Yeah. The first time it was actually at a mutual friends, unfortunately in the recovery community, we have funerals for people.

And this happened to be that kind of thing. We went out for lunch after with a group of people. that we knew from the God Rock Church and ministry. And right then and there, like, I asked Jess, because we were talking and I had this deep, dark secret, like, they're sharing their life with me and I'm not reciprocating. It's that hard tension as a trans person to know who's safe and when to share your story and with who. And so I just felt compelled to tell her. So I asked her, you know, I remember it was Tim Horne. We sat down and I just shared with Jess.

I just poured out my heart and I didn't mean to do that at that moment, but she just leans in and she listens so well and she acts. She doesn't even act engaged. She is engaged. Her genuine passion and compassion for me was there. And, you know, as we, as I poured out my heart to her, she just loved me right in that moment and just said, you know, like nothing that you say is. going to make me leave you or our friendship is still intact. Of course, you know, they also said that as we grow together, like we want to have the word of God as the highest authority in our lives because it's already in their lives as that. And am I willing to get into the boat with

them and put the authority of the Bible, even if I haven't surrendered yet, and even if I don't understand completely what surrender means. I said by way of the Holy Spirit, it's the only way. Yes, I'm all in. And I didn't really understand what that meant, but that's why I had such amazing friends because they guided me through what it looks like to be a disciple of Jesus and what it looks like to follow him with every area of your life. And then I remember dropping her off and I share this in my book too as like, I had just poured out my heart vulnerability. everywhere. Track record of friendships, terrible. Abandonment of my father, you know, and I'm waiting for this woman to just walk away and never come back. And after she left the car,

well, before she left the truck, I said to her, is this going to change our relationship and our friendship? And she said, no, it isn't. And so when she left, I started crying because I was so so fearful of that. But the next week when I saw her on Saturday, nothing had changed. She gave me a great big hug and she loved me and we continued to walk that out until I shared it with BJ also and he did the same. I'm going to read what you said about Jess. This is on page 100. Jess has a way in the moment of making you feel like you are the most important person in the world, that you matter and that nothing is ever off the table. She looks you in the eye without an ounce of insincere. She was becoming a dear friend and she's done more to teach me how to be a friend than anyone I know.

I suppose that's exactly what God's people are supposed to do in a hurting world. That's just, oh, Jess. I know, it gets me emotional just because, I don't know, just their sacrifice on my behalf. And, you know, BJ said if they had to do, we're Gospel City Church now as a plan. to church, but if they had to do God Rock, you know, if God Rock's doors closed and gospel cities doors closed and nothing was left of the ministry and it was just me, they would do it all over again a thousand times just because of seeing God work in my life and the miracle that he did. And so I am so thankful and so grateful for the way that they love Jesus and the way

that they love people. I mean, the greatest command, love the Lord your God, with all your heart, your soul, your mind, and all your strength, and then love your neighbor as yourself. And their sacrificial love for me was on display because their actions and their words matched. They didn't, they were praying every single Friday night for a year and a half at the leaders group, where they met with other leaders of God Rock, and they were fasting and praying and asking, asking God to release Kyla. Like they just spent their time and their energy to love me and pray for me and fast for me. Just said she would fast before we would meet, you know, and on big topics and conversations

that she knew that was going to be really difficult. And so she displayed the love of Christ so gracefully, not perfect, because we would say it's not perfect. we had places where we had to come back to each other and say, you know, sorry I didn't understand that or I didn't say that correctly. I'm sorry if that hurt. Or sometimes not even saying sorry, just comforting you, even when you know that the truth of God has pierced a part of your heart and soul.

And it's just hurting. Jess was there and BJ was there to just sit with me in those moments. And then they opened up their house for me for a year and a half, or sorry, a year while I detransitioned and they sacrificed their room, they sacrifice their space, their time, their energy to make it a safe place for me to detransition. And I'll be forever grateful for that. What led to you to want to detransition? Yeah, take us through that process. Well, first of all, when did you first start to think, I think I want to detrans. Was that shortly after your, that time at Tim Hortons when you shared your story with them and

they reaffirm their commitment to love you? No, I had no, honestly, I had no idea or thought or even, yeah, desire to detransition. I didn't think it was possible. I thought that, you know, I had surgeries and I was on testosterone for at that time, probably five years, that there was no going back. And God wouldn't ask me to detransition in order to follow him. I think he would take me where I'm at and he would ask me to follow him with what I've got. And that just wasn't the case.

He asked me to detransition and follow him in the unknown, in the painful moments of gender dysphoria and in the moments of complete and utter trust in him for a result that I had no clue would ever turn out the way it did. And so at that time, I had no idea. I mean, Jess had come to me probably, I don't know, a few months before we even talk, no, after we even talked. And her and BJ had come up with a conclusion on their end. If Kyla or Bryson at the time decides to detransition and follow Christ, we need to come up with a plan that we can make it possible for her to. to detransition and follow Christ no matter what, like, we have to come up with that plan.

And so one time she came up to me and said, you know, I believe that the Holy Spirit wants me to share this with you. It's that if you ever decide to detransition, that you have a safe place to come and live. BJ and I have talked about this and you're welcome in our home for free to just live and be and walk with us. And at that time, I was like, Okay, thanks, but no thanks. And I kind of put it in my back pocket. Okay, these guys are real, but that wasn't even on my radar. And it was over time of walking with them, asking deeper questions, being in the Word of God and watching sermons and hanging out with my, I call them Jesus friends, on a regular basis, two, three, four times a week that God started to stir in me more deeper questions for.

him about my sexuality, about my identity, about my sex even. You know, if I was born female, God, then what does it look like that I've tried to change that? And he would give me verses that just hit me like never before. Uh, ones that spoke deep into my soul, like I was created before the foundation of the world. Like there was zero mistake in how God created me. Um, Yes, I experienced these things, but he didn't make a mistake with my body and my gender and my sex. And so then what do I do with that? Like, okay, God, I was so fearful to bring it to him because I was scared of what he would, you know, say or ask of me. But when I came to the end of myself, I was getting really depressed again, probably a year and a half into our.

So this was almost six years in, no, yeah, six years into my transition. And I just felt more broken, more lost, more desperate for divine intervention in my life. I had called out to God many times. God helped me, but I wasn't willing to give him everything. And one day I did. I cried out to him in my brokenness sobbing on my bedroom floor and just asked him to save me, rescue me. And in that moment, you know, in my book I share, and I've shared it with you on your podcast before is like, he asked me to detransition. And all I could cry out in that moment was yes, because I wanted him more than

anything. And I desire to honor him with my body, my gender, my God-given gender, my sexuality. If that's the cost that it cost me to, you know, follow him, then I'm willing to surrender that. When you detransitioned, did your dysphoria come back? Yeah, I was really scared because my dysphoria before I transitioned was really terrible. And I was, you know, suicidal. I didn't want to be here anymore. I was, like, really desperate. And so I was fearful that it would be like that, but even worse now that I've had surgeries.

And maybe I wouldn't look like Kyla used to look. Maybe I would look more male. Maybe my voice wouldn't change at all. all and I would have like this deep because my voice was really deep on testosterone after six years and maybe I would have all those things and I would be like I'm a girl and everyone's like no you're a boy and then it would just be like I have just gone through this like six years ago and now I'm being misgendered the opposite way so it was a big reality and a big fear of mine but as I surrendered God did something within me

in those moments and in the years to come as little acts of obedience, he was starting to heal the areas of like severe gender dysphoria. And I want to say this because there's no promise that he is going to fix gender dysphoria or fix same-sex attraction. That's not what, you know, when we surrender that he's promising us. But he is a loving God and he is a good God. and I believe that he does heal in deeper ways. He wants to heal us in deeper ways.

And so as I look back, it was actually your book, Preston, embodied when I had written that part about my gender dysphoria. It was probably two years later. I read it in your book. And I called Jess and I was bawling my eyes out. And I said, just like I'm reading Preston's book.

And here's my little bit on gender dysphoria. And I don't feel this extreme gender dysphoria. more. And I didn't notice until I read your pages of your book. Wow. Oh, yeah, because I described some quotes from people that describe gender dysphoria. Yeah. And it's, yeah. And I knew that was, you know, like part of my gender dysphoria. I could see it. And yeah. So now do you still experience it? Does it come of waves? Is it lessen? Is it gone? How would you describe it? Yeah. It's not gone. Sometimes it comes in waves, uh, stronger than before or, uh, less than before. or it really is this relationship with God

where I have to be in that abiding relationship with him, where I need his strength to do anything, get out of my house sometimes. But I've seen God heal those areas. And so it's not gone. It's still there. I still wrestle and struggle. Like sometimes I feel different.

I'll walk into a room and there'll be a bunch of women there and I start to feel, you know, like uncomfortable or like people are staring at me because here I am. Like I'm an athletic person. Not very much anymore, but I used to be more of like what people call a jock. And I love sweatpants and a hoodie and a tuk or a hat. And that's just what I like, not trying to be masculine, not trying to be a boy. Just like, that's how. I feel comfortable. And so I've embraced that like, okay, it doesn't matter what other people think or see or do.

As long as I'm honoring God in that area of my life, then I can be more okay with my gender as female than I was before. And so I'm grateful that God is patient. God is kind and gentle and he heals areas over time. This book was a big thing too because it is very vulnerable. And so putting it out there knowing that people have read my life story, so to speak, is, yeah, I went through a lot of struggle with my gender and all this kind of stuff as I was rustling with what to write and what not to write and just putting it on, you know, typing it and putting on paper and reading it over and over and over again. but at the end of the day, like just love trying to embrace and love the gender that he gave me

because I believe that it is good, no matter my desires. And I'll pray that sometimes as like, God, change my desires, change my thoughts to match your thoughts and your will for my life. I thought, you know, you mentioned earlier that you wanted to be vulnerable but not, you know, over the top, you know, whatever. I thought you hit that perfectly. Like, I'm glad, yeah, I mean, if you were vaguer than you were, it just wouldn't have been as powerful and honest, really. Not that anybody needs to share any gritty detail. I didn't, I can see.

I'm glad, you know, you did give a warning up front. Like, hey, we're going to talk about some mature things and personal things and things that could be, you know, triggering. So you gave that warning ahead of time. But, yeah, I'm so, so glad you were honest and vulnerable. And, you know, talk genuinely. like when you had a crush on another girl, like you described, you helped us feel what that felt like for you because that's an important part of your journey. And talking about the way you described your relationship with your dad was just incredibly moving. Yeah, with with dysphoria, I've heard from other like females with gender dysphoria that when they're in environments with other women and there's a lot of just femininity, you know, a lot of pink, a lot of dresses, whatever.

that that exacerbates your dysphoria? Is that that true for you as well? Yeah, it can be. You know, I try to embrace the moment and embrace like these women are living out there, God-given femininity and gender and they're doing it beautifully. It wasn't probably, I wasn't able to really fully understand or embrace what a woman is until I saw Heidi, which is one of the leaders at God Rock, and Jess just live it out so beautifully.

I was like, man, like, they look like they have so much freedom. They look like they can breathe, and that was a big part of it. You know, in my transition, I felt like the weight of being a man in this world. Like, I wasn't created for this or designed to be a man. And so although I look good on the outside and I could pretend like I was fitting in, and I was exhausted on the inside. And when I looked at the beautiful display of femininity and even godly masculinity, how they protected their wives,

how they honored their wives, how they honored their sisters, how they protected their sisters in Christ, I wanted that. And the only way to have that was to make a hard decision of either detransition or stay as Bryson. And I really felt like I was, was missing out on something that was intrinsically given to me by God alone. I'm curious, after your detransition, and I'm not sure how involved you were with other

LGBTQ people outside the church, but I've seen stories where people, you know, transition and then they're embraced by that community. But then when they detransition, it's almost like some people see it as a threat or like you're you're turning your back on the community or you know because some people will take a story of detransition and make it like the model for everybody or like yeah you know i mean it's detransitioners have it tough i think you know they're kind of gotten between have you experienced some of those tensions um yeah like when i came into recovery i kind of separated myself i don't think anyone wanted wanted to be my friend in my hockey group anymore. I had really torn those friendships apart by drinking. So I didn't really

have friends in hockey community that wanted to be my friends. And I also was trying to get away from the environment of partying and drinking and all these kind of things. So I left that, which also left most of the LGBTQ plus people that I used to hang out with. I also lost a lot of my lesbian gay friends because I transitioned back in 2011, because a lot of them, you know, like I wasn't a woman anymore and they didn't want to hang out maybe with a man. And so there was like that losing that community that was so close to me. And so when I went into recovery, it was... Real quick, you're saying when you trend, not dethrine, but when you transition.

Transitioned. You lost some of your gay and lesbian. Yes. And so then when I detransitioned in 2017, I had already been removed from more of the hockey community. Because I didn't play women's hockey anymore, I was identifying as male. And I didn't have my hockey friends that drank and partied and all that. So it was like I didn't have a lot of LGBTQ plus friends. But I did have the odd friend that didn't understand, that didn't follow Christ.

And that was like, why can't you just be happy and be gay and be transgender? Like, why do you have to go to all these lengths to, you know, suppress these things and, you know, not be happy? And it's the complete opposite. Because now I know the true freedom is only found in the one that creates us, created us. And as we embrace our true identity and God-given gender, that's when we experience peace, joy, and fulfillment in Christ. Talk to me about your ministry, renewed and transformed ministries, which you're the founder of. When did you start this? I forget how long ago it was, and tell us about the work you do. Yeah, it was probably, I would say like full time last year. I

jump or maybe a year and a half ago, I jumped in full time as I felt God was calling me into this ministry full time. Probably maybe three years before that, I started the ministry. Only really, honestly, Preston, was so that people could find me because lots of people would hear me speak and all this and they didn't know where to go to find me. So I created a website so that people could reach out and at least have contact with me if they needed help or any questions. I wanted to be available as much as possible for them. And so that's how it kind of evolved with just got opening more doors and more doors to speak and go to youth groups and, you know, just just do my ministry. And then as the book came, you know, came. It was actually

Ashley from B&H publishing that came to me. And she met me at Theology and the Raw when I was sharing my testimony. Oh, no way. And so it was like probably four years in the making because it's been quite a few years now. And she approached me. And so I just felt like as I'm praying and seeking God's will for my life, it just seemed like he was calling me, excuse me, into full-time ministry. Okay. Oh, wow. That's so cool.

Yeah. Yeah. I've had a few people that have spoken at the Excells conference. And we have a lot of publishers that attend the conference. and yeah, they've been approached. So that's good to know. We got another one. Yeah, totally.

What are some, what are some the main things you want to tell the church, Christians, maybe even particularly leaders, about how to think through, you know, when they say, how do we reach, how do we love trans people that might come to our church or when we're, you know, in the community, like, what are some big picture like do's and don'ts for Christians to hear from you? Yeah, I think that we are supposed to embody Christ within the church. And how we embody him is he was full of grace and truth. And I use 1-141-14 a lot, you know, and it ends with, and he was full of grace and true. And so how do we, not a lot of trans and LGBTQ plus people are just breaking down the doors of our churches and wanting to come in, but also like how do we go out and reach these people and talk with them and engage with them and love them because they're in our neighborhoods, they're in our schools, they're in our workplaces, everywhere we go.

you could probably find somebody who is LGBTQ plus more than ever now. And so, but that specific person as they come into the church, it's, you know, listening to the Holy Spirit, sitting beside them, maybe they're single and they don't have a friend. Do we actually leave our comfort spot with our husband or our friends circles and we go and sit with the newcomer? I think Lori Krieg explains this so well is like she'll just go sit beside someone and she did that with Cat. You know, my friend Cat, and it was so beautiful and Jess did that too. She left her seat and she came straight for me and that changed my life in the long run because she cared. And I was questioning, okay, maybe I need to come back. And so I think that as we see new people in the church, we need to engage.

more with them and then start asking them like, hey, you know, would you share your story with me? We think that's very simple, but we forget sometimes to ask. And sometimes when people are look different or act different or have different beliefs in us, we get into this like shell that we cover ourselves with and we're like, I can't can't get out of that in order to listen to someone who different than me. And that has to be eradicated within the church. We need, like, the body of Christ is made up of, you know, all people, you know, different, gay, straight, whatever. Like, we're going to meet you where you're at. And the church is full of people of different ethnicities and languages. That's the beauty of the church. And so how do we love somebody who is seeking

to follow Jesus. And how do we reach out to them and love them? Well, opening up your homes for coffee, for dinner, opening up your life with your time and your energy, going for coffees, talking in different places, not just within the church. Like, we can really expand the way that we engage with others. And that's one of my heart and passions. How do we love people even when we don't agree? Yeah.

That's the sweet spot. It's a sweet spot. And Jesus, I know it's so cliche, but it's so true, right? But Jesus did that. He, after preaching the sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5 to 7, you have a whole slew of stories right after that in Matthew 8 and 9 where he goes and encounters all these people. And some of whom were living in direct violation of what he just said. You know, but he pursued them. He wanted to relate with them. He wanted to encounter them. He wanted to be in their life. And yeah, loving people in the midst of disagreement is, yeah, it's a sweet spot. It's a sweet spot. And we do it well with some people and not with others, you know. I do think so. We're more prone to going for the person that's easier to get along with, right? Oh, you like baseball? We can be friends or you like hockey. And really, we have to have to have a.

a kingdom focus. We have to know that, you know, that the church and the body of Christ is made up with people that we wouldn't necessarily hang out with before we came to Christ, before we went to church. And having those kingdom focused eyes on the mission would be to make disciples and tell people about the gospel. And so we need to expand that. And I think it's beautiful when it's done properly. And here we are modeling that. I mean, I'm wearing a Dodger hat. I see a Toronto Blue Jays. Yeah, right? Thing me like to. We won't talk about it. Can't get any more tense than that. Yeah, I had a friend that or I think a friend of a friend that reached out to me recently.

I think I've imported him in your direction. He was wondering, you know, he's, he has a trans person attending the church, is really loving it. And this is, I've had several stories like this, you know, and they're getting plugged in. They're loving. in it. But the pastor hasn't made clear like, you know, what the church believes about identity and biological sex. And he's like, when do I, like, I don't want to do the bait switch, but I don't want to just walk up and say, here's our statement on, you know, human identity. How would you, what would you advise that person? I mean, because you've been on, you've been in that position before on the other side, you know?

Yeah, great question. I think as a church, we need to be very open for what each church believes. There's non-negotiables and there's negotiables. Like, where do we fall on in sexuality and gender? We need to have a clear, you know, vision for that. And we can't just not speak about it ever within the congregation. Like up front from the pulpit, we need to be able. to speak about what we believe God's design is for sex and sexuality and marriage and all these

kind of things. It doesn't have to be something that we talk about 24-7, but it has to be on the table. The other thing is, I think a lot of times, and I say this with hopefully you see the humility in this because I'm not blaming anyone, but sometimes as Christians, we think we have the right just to spew out whatever we want when we meet somebody. And we forget that it's relational. Like we have an opportunity to get to know somebody and invite them to listen to us, invite them into that relationship with us so that we can build equity, trust within the relationship and the friendship so that, you know, like BJ and Jess, no matter, and Kyle and Heidi, no matter what they said, I knew they loved me. Yeah.

I couldn't shake that part. And sometimes we're going to have to share the gospel. Like the Holy Spirit will say, share this. You might not see that person ever again, share it now. And it might be hard truth. And you obey Jesus. But most of the time, it's over time that we get to have conversations and relationships. I think sometimes we forget that.

And it's so important that we ask people, like, Jess asked me once, like how do you perceive yourself. Do you see yourself as a gay person or do you like are you a man? Like what what do you believe? And so I was able to share. Well, of course, I'm a straight man, Jess. Like that's how I identify. And she didn't know. And I was a little defensive at first. Like, whoa, this woman like has guts to ask me such hard questions. But as I sat there and thought about it later on, I'm like, man, like for her to ask something like that in fear of losing a friendship or offending me, she just did it because she wanted to know how I perceived myself, how I saw myself so that she knew how to speak later on into my life or she could then say, okay, now this is the ground rule. Like, this is where

Bryson believes that he is and what he thinks he is. Now we have an opportunity to build. build off of that and actually talk about deeper things. And so I really appreciated that. Let's not be so scared to ask questions in love to people, even when they're different than us. It sounds like, I mean, you would say you knew when she asked that question that your your relationship didn't hinge on whether you gave the answer she wanted you to give, right? You felt like I can say anything now. Maybe she'll disagree. Maybe we'll kind of go back and forth.

But I knew no matter what the response was, she would still be there for me. Right. So if somebody has that security that like my commitment to you as a person transcends, you know, how you answer the questions that I'm asking. Right. Yeah. It's such a big deal to have to know that. We're disagreeing. but we still can be in relationship.

Yeah, that's good. Kyla, your book rocks. It's called Transform. Pick it up wherever books are sold. Tell us where people could find you specifically renewed and transformed ministries. Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram under the handle Renewed Transformed or Kyla gillespie.14. You can also head to my website. If you have any questions, you want to ask me questions.

You want to check out my book, conferences, all these kind of things. stuff at Kyla Gillespie.com. And there's opportunity to ask questions, to reach out, to know what, you know, I also just started a podcast last year. And so if you want to listen to those episodes that have already been out, season two is just, I think we're almost a month into it. You can get resources for that. I talk to a lot of amazing people that have different experiences and knowledge on the

conversation around relationships, faith, sexuality, and gender. And so there's those opportunities. And then, yeah, for pre-order anywhere a book is sold, you can order it on Amazon or on transformedbook. org through B&H publishing. Okay. And the name of your podcast? Renewed and Transform. Okay. Awesome. Thanks so much, Kyle, for being a guest on Theology, General. I really appreciate you and the work you do. and yeah, hope many people look you up and tap into you for all your wisdom in this really, really challenging area. Thank you, Jessica.