Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal - Richard Dolan on UFOs, Wilson Memo, Lazar, Psychedelics and Alien Encounters

Episode Date: August 1, 2021

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/cDZEb-GKAJ4 Sponsors: https://brilliant.org/TOE for 20% off. http://algo.com for supply chain AI. Patreon for conversations on Theories of Everything, Consciousness, Free Will, and God: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal Crypto (anonymous): https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOE PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802 Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverything LINKS MENTIONED: Top 10 Playlist for TOE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAB21FAXCDE&list=PLZ7ikzmc6zlMS2MP3hzVot4Z77AWFnHzQ UFO Playlist for TOE - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ7ikzmc6zlPd4Y5pg8XtzS_0-ChSTeJ6 Avi Loeb interview - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTHDCD4MnqY Luis Elizondo interview - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAmFlLfsZKM&pp=sAQA TIMESTAMPS: 00:00:00 Introduction 00:04:51 UFO being hit by our nuclear bomb, and falling into the sea 00:10:21 [M Kelly] What's the most common "myth" / "untruth" in ufology? 00:12:12 If aliens wanted to harm us, why don't do they do so more drastically? 00:17:41 [Amjad Hussain] Evidence for underwater base of UFOs? 00:21:23 Do the different types of aliens have conflict / cooperation with one another? 00:27:16 [Josh Paterson] High strangeness 00:31:37 Evidence for remote viewing / psychic phenomenon 00:42:46 [Tyler Goldstein] Sleep paralysis caused by ET? 00:45:38 [Politically incorrect] Paul Benowitz, Mount Archuleta 00:54:06 In-fighting and disprizing within the ufology community 01:06:35 [Xcalipurful] How best to study the UAP phenomenon? What data sets exist? 01:09:59 [Matthew] Skinwalker 01:13:05 Relationship between UFOs and Bigfoot 01:17:39 [Steven Cambian] CIA deathbed interview was a lie 01:20:16 [Steven Cambian] The Wilson Memos (are they a lie as well?) 01:40:20 [Fredis 33] Bob Lazar is truthful 01:51:52 [@Ben_in_Toronto] Israeli head of space speaking about UFOs 01:56:39 [@waxsublime] Aliens referred to us as "containers"? 01:58:16 [Tyler Gates] Someone puts a gun to your head saying "convince me of aliens" 02:04:11 Psychedelic use / DMT and alien encounters 02:06:50 [Oliver] Will Avi Loeb's Project Galileo be fruitful? 02:08:08 [Philip Cauchy] Ross Coulthart's "black budget reverse engineering" 02:08:57 [Lonesomespacecowboy] If the world saw what you, Richard, saw -- what would the reaction be? 02:13:02 Bill Clinton story of "my hands are tied" regarding UFOs 02:20:23 COVID and aliens?  02:24:46 [Victor Wagg] If you had access to alien tech, do you slow drip or reveal all at once? 02:31:09 We're losing our human qualities, and freedoms. Kids can't even play. 02:37:12 [Paul Walsch] Who are the most credible people in the UFO scene? 02:39:49 [Dr Kickass 77] How to identify misinformation 02:43:49 [@StanAlister] How come we have no clear video of UFOs but have lucid videos of rare meteors? 02:50:43 Any picture of alien bodies? * * * Just wrapped (April 2021) a documentary called Better Left Unsaid http://betterleftunsaidfilm.com on the topic of "when does the left go too far?" Visit that site if you'd like to watch it.

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Richard Dolan is one of the world's most lauded UFO researchers and historians. His most recent book, The Alien Agendas, is a taxonomy of alien beings based on eyewitness testimonial, behavioral, and visual characteristics. For those new to this channel, my name is Kurt Jaimungal. I'm a filmmaker with a background in mathematical physics dedicated to the explication of what are called theories of everything from a theoretical physics perspective, as well as the possible connection consciousness has to the fundamental laws of the universe, provided these laws exist at all and are knowable to us. If you're interested in getting acquainted with this channel

or getting someone else up to speed, there's a top 10 list in the description that focuses on theoretical physics, psychology, mathematics, philosophy, and so on. But if you're more interested in the UFO phenomenon, then there's a UFO playlist in the description as well, where we talk to people like Luis Alessandro, Jeremy Korbel, Jacques Vallée, Kevin Knuth, as well as some of the more academic luminaries such as Noam Chomsky, Avi Loeb, even Stephen Wolfram on the topic of alien life. Most of the time when I'm interviewing someone regarding my bailiwick of theoretical physics, mathematics, consciousness, and so on,

it involves a level of preparation that's unduly high, but that's not the case when it comes to this UFO topic for a few reasons. Number one, my time is already stretched extremely thin, but that could be said about anyone. Number two, luckily this podcast is getting to the point where I can interview people who are at the top of their given field, which means instead of me learning about this UFO phenomenon or particular UFO case from a third party, I can go straight to the source. Number three, it gives the opportunity for those who are ufologists, maybe yourself, those in the community who are extremely well acquainted, to ask questions directly to these cognoscentes, since this is an AMA and ask me anything, in some ways it has to be because my questions would be extremely naive. Okay, and then number four, as you know, much of the scientific community

is extremely scornful about the topic of UFOs, relegating it to pseudoscience or the confabulation of those with marginal intelligence who precipitately jump to conclusions. I myself don't hold this view and in fact think that innovation will almost necessarily come from the fringes. At least I'm making my bet on that. The audience of this podcast tend to be extremely intelligent, comprising even professors of mathematics, physics, even computer science, and they feel a, or at least they've told me that they feel a kinship toward me, particularly because I'm trained classically in those domains. Many of them have messaged me, reached out privately, and sometimes even publicly in the comment section, and told me that my coverage on this topic has swayed them from a position of

extreme skepticism to a position where it's like, I don't know what the heck is happening at all. And this is in particular because I'm not a member of the UFO community. I'm no ufologist, and this paradoxically serves to legitimate the study of these transpirations in its own minor way with some small subset of the scientifically-minded audience, namely that of the Theories of Everything podcast audience. Thus, if my questions ever seem sophomoric or simplistic, it's because I'm sophomoric and simplistic, at least with respect to this subject. It's a double-edged sword.

If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, for example, George Knapp or Christopher Mellon, or perhaps both of them on at the same time, then please do consider going to patreon.com slash kurtjaimungle and supporting. It may sound silly, but literally every dollar helps, as this is what I do full-time. I've also recently opened up a crypto address, and there's a PayPal address as well, in case any of those platforms are more up your alley. The plan is to have more conversations like this with ever-increasing quality approximately once a week.

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Brilliant's courses explore the laws that shape our world, elevating math and science from something to be feared to a delightful experience of guided discovery. More on them later. Thank you and enjoy. Okay, if anyone can see this, type the word Piccolo. Piccolo, Piccolo. Or Gohan. Hold on, hold on. It may not work. Let me double check.

Just for my microphone, one last time. You hear that when I tap this? Yep, yep, yep. It's the correct microphone. I'm going to be taking audience live questions live audience questions so in the chat make sure when you're asking a question you at me because then i could see it more clearly firstly you said around 1962 there was an explosion of nuclear bombs off the coast of hawaii and i think it was 36 nuclear bombs. And

there was a UFO there that got shot down, if I heard correctly. Can you explain what happened? Yeah, that was part of something known as Operation Dominic. Dominic is something you can find on online, you can find a Wikipedia entry on it. During uh during you know that part of the cold war we're talking late 1950s early 60s um both the united states and the soviet union were pretty much at their peak of nuclear detonations so actually from i think 1945 till the 1998 end of the 20th century, the world experienced, I think, 2050 nuclear detonations. Quite amazing. And so Operation Dominic was one very small sliver of that whole history, but it was a special series of high altitude tests over the Pacific.

And it's true about, I think, 500 miles off the West Coast, Western tip of Hawaii is most of that. So that's all we know. And we know all about that. And that took place. It ended, it ended actually right around the time of the October, the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962. It was almost exactly around that time. I wrote about it in one of my books because I spoke to a retired Navy man. His first name is David, seaman aboard a vessel that was in the area. They were not doing the missile launches, but they were there. And this was in October of, I think, the second to last Dominic detonation, if I'm not mistaken. dominic uh detonation if i'm not mistaken and he described a fascinating and i for me believable ufo encounter that uh his vessel had and i can't actually remember the name of his vessel it's i wrote about it in my book ufos for the 21st century mind i could pull it out but sure it doesn't matter

yeah yeah yeah so basically what happened is he was uh he was on a vessel the detonation was set to go off he like all the other seamen on the vessel were told to go below deck and uh an officer came down and said i want you you you you and you up up right now and david was one of them and they were actually just told to stand, I think, on the starboard side. And they were supposed to just face straight forward, not look at anything else. Don't look left. Don't look right. And this man saw a UFO like zoom by and presumably he thought it was it went into the ocean. He learned later he's doing cross train with radar operators later that day. And he in the scuttlebutt learned that they were tracking ufo they track ufos he

said all the time during detonations and he said typically what would happen would be uh bogeys would be up in the atmosphere just before detonations and then they would be gone just before the detonation occurred so they apparently were monitoring and then got the hell out when it happened but apparently not in this case because what he learned from the radar operators he said was that uh apparently this one got hit and it came down and it was tracked and it was pursued by u.s navy pickup team whatever that was and uh he had a follow-up to that which was some years later he did a tour of duty at cuantanamo bay in Cuba in, I think, the 70s. And by chance at the bar, spoke to a Navy guy.

They were like, trading stories. What do you got? Oh, I got something interesting. Oh, yeah. Well, I got something even more. This guy turned out to be a diver. According to this man, the first diver down to investigate this exact same craft from 1962. Went down below the water,

didn't realize he was standing on the object until he slid off of it. Actually peed in his suit from the nervousness. Was able to see what he described as like a honeycomb, kind of semi-clear, semi-opopaque with lots of little combs inside and did he ever draw it he did not go inside he stood outside it but he said it was somewhat trans somewhat transparent i suppose what i mean is did he ever draw it like make a sketch of it there is no i don't have a sketch from this man, David, but, uh,

based on that description, there was an artist who offered his own interpretation of it, which seemed to fit what I got when I interviewed this man. So a very large object with a kind of transparent honeycomb pattern. Uh, and then he, kind of transparent honeycomb pattern. And then he, apparently what this diver believed he knew was that the team sent down, or the Navy sent down another team either a day or more later and the object was not there.

So they were not able to recover this object, this UFO. That is the story that the questioner is asking about. So short version. M kelly wants to know what do you think of what do you think is the most common myth in the ufo phenomena or related to the ufo phenomena myth it's a tough one to know i don't know how to answer that not sure what what this person is asking particularly like the most common untruth right about ufos i suppose um in your opinion widely promulgated as being oh like in today's culture well i mean look you have a lot of people in the ufo field who talk as though they really know

exactly what these other beings are. And it happens all the time. I mean, for my part, I've studied this for more than 25 years now. And I can say, honestly, I don't pretend that I know exactly, like for sure, what these other beings are. I speculated about them in my most recent book, The Alien Agendas, but that doesn't mean that I know. I just am doing my best speculative analysis. But there are definitely folks out there who

will talk up a big game and they'll act as though they know precisely the nature of these beings. Frequently, you'll find that they are some version or other of space brothers or, you know, people here to help us achieve the next level of our development so that we can join the galactic community. In my opinion, that's probably a very widespread, I would call that a myth. I'm not saying that every alien race that's ever visited us is necessarily evil or out to get us or put us in a cookbook, i would say uh there's definitely a long history of that type of idea and i've never found it very persuasive it's probably other myths i could if i had time to think about might be even bigger than that but

that's that's one in the alien agendas you go through this taxonomy of aliens of alien types or subspecies and so on and you also mentioned the word evil here to me if they were evil they seem so technologically advanced that they could destroy us at any point do you think that the evil ones have some other agenda other than our instantaneous destruction yeah i think well you know i don't like i don't use the word evil for any of these guys let's use the word I don't use the word evil for any of these guys. Let's use the word nefarious. I don't use the word good either. I mean, you know, from our human instinct, we're naturally inclined to look at things as threat or not threat.

And that's how we're supposed to do it. Like, that's our evolution. So I guess from that sense, you could say evil if they are a threat. But if there's a dangerous group here, and I tend to think that the answer to's if there's a dangerous group here and i i tend to think that the answer to that is there is a dangerous group here actually um why haven't they destroyed us well like why you know how would they do that is a real good question to ask like would they surround us like independence day and just fire like laser beams or like you know the future terminator scenarios when they you know patrol the skies and just destroy humanity.

I mean, is that really what they would want to do? What if they actually like Earth? What if they think Earth is a cool place? And what if they are trying to figure out a way to inhabit Earth without all those messy humans? So if that was the case, how would they go about doing it? Would they would they engage in massive warfare like World War II and just destroy cities and turn them into rubble? Or would they go about another method? Or if, and this is all if, because we don't know. I don't know. The person asking the question, you don't know. But if there are other groups that are interested in having other agendas, maybe there are other groups that are not here to take us out. Maybe

there's another group out there that might see us as their property and they might want to cultivate us the way we cultivate farm animals. I don't know. So if you've got different groups engaged, perhaps there might be a covert measure to this whole activity of extraterrestrials. And I realize as I'm saying this to you that this could sound just totally far out to someone, especially who hasn't studied UFOs or not looked into the phenomenon at all. They're like, this is totally nuts. The thing is that there's a few things that I can say that I know. All right. Question you just asked, that's speculation and I don't know. And you just asked, that's speculation.

And I don't know. But what I do know is that there is a long, long proven history of documentary evidence, I guess I would say, that doesn't hint, it doesn't suggest, but it does prove that there's a phenomenon that exists in the skies, the atmosphere, the oceans, and on the ground of planet Earth that's not supposed to exist. And then military personnel have engaged in this for many, many years. And the highest level documents that I've been able to find, you see these people scratching their heads or being gravely concerned about objects that don't look normal, don't behave normally, and have a very definite interest in our nuclear technology and nuclear weapons. That's no question about it. They are seen around the world, not just

the United States, but the old Soviet Union has a large, large number of these stories and these reports. So that there's something going on in which there is someone here that's not supposed to exist with technology that's not supposed to exist similarly, and that is a matter of great secrecy, we can call it a cover-up. What do you mean when you say not supposed to exist? It's not supposed to exist in the terms of our current understanding of what we think we know about the world and the universe. You know, an object's not supposed to be able to zigzag or instantly accelerate without making a sound or just disappear or, you know, be shaped like a flying saucer and actually have the stability, the aerodynamic stability to be able to do things. It does. Like we don't, we don't

have a way of explaining that. We don't have a way of explaining the so-called tic-tac ufo encounter of 2004 which has been discussed quite a bit by navy commander david favor uh in which you have an object essentially accelerating instantly to estimate a 10 000 miles per hour or more like we don't we don't know so that's not supposed to be the case in the sense of our physics we don't we don't have a good explanation for how to do that. And those types of reports, by the way, reliable reports, military reports with instrumentation, they go back to the 1940s. I myself found a report in the Canadian archives describing an event from 1936 in the Northwest Territories of tic-tac-type UFO with instant acceleration and thousands of miles

per hour. So there's enough of these that those are real head-scratchers in terms of how you explain those things in terms of aerodynamics and aviation history and all of that. We don't have a way to explain those at all. So that's what I mean. And then on top of that, there are enough reports by people that I personally have considered credible who have described encounters with what you can only call alien beings. I'm not saying every description of an encounter with an alien being is, oh, yeah, absolutely, I believe it.

No, I don't. But I believe some of them. I believe enough of them to think that there are alien beings that are here. So I think that's connected to the UFO phenomenon. Absolutely. Me and you were talking before off air about my interest, which is primarily physics related and consciousness related. And these crafts seem to at least ostensibly break the laws of physics. That's extremely interesting to me. You also mentioned the ocean. Okay, now this question comes from Amjad Hussain. Do you know of any evidence that suggests UFOs have a base

underwater? Yes. Well, let's just say I would describe that as circumstantial indications. All right, so maybe that's a better way to put it there's a long history of ocean-based and water-based ufo encounters it's quite fascinating i mean to the extent that those objects have their own acronym uso which is unidentified submersible objects instead of ufos so there's enough of those there's a couple of good books i have one lying around here somewhere called invisible residence by Ivan T. Sanderson from over 50 years ago. It's a very good book. He was a good writer. And there's been other compilations of water-based UFO encounters. Most recently, a website called waterufo.net, I believe, by the late Carl Feint. It's a very good site. I believe by the late Carl Feint. It's a very good site. There's a number of UFO sightings or USO sightings of objects going into and exiting large bodies of water. to the STARS Academy. Lew, of course, is a counterintelligence officer for the Department of Defense for many years. And he talks about transmedium objects

when he ran the AATIP program back in the early 2000s. In other words, a transmedium object is an object that can go from water to air or air to water. In other words, different mediums. So with all of that, I think, you know, when you consider that the earth is 75 covered by water uh it actually makes perfect sense to me we have we have technology we've had for 50 years or more that can go deep deep underground and that includes under the ocean floor because the

technology is the same so uh i know you know of research going back to the 1960s in which the united states navy was looking into technology to go deep underground under the ocean floors they were actively exploring this now did they well we don't have answers to that all we know is that they had plans the technology was not out of the question for them the money was not out of the question for them either the motivation was certainly there my guess is they probably did it. If our Navy had the ability to go under the ocean, in other words, and then you ask yourself, well, how could you have a viable base down there? You still have to have oxygen and energy, but that's actually not that difficult. Hydrolysis out of the ocean, you just extract the oxygen from the ocean. We know how to do that. That's how nuclear submarines can stand or submerge for months and months at a time. They're taking

oxygen out of the water. So we knew how to do that. And all you need is some geothermal or maybe small nuclear generator down there. And you could have the lights on and play ping pong all day long under the ocean floor. As long as the geology is good. So I think the logic for a non-human species that wants to be here quietly, sure, ocean-based UFO makes sense. Where those things are, there's a number of speculations. For a long, long time,

there's been speculation off near Catalina Island off the southern coast of California. Could be. Probably a few others. Probably a bunch of others. These alien subspecies in the alien agendas, did you, well, you at least surmised some of the relationships that they would have with us. What about with each other? Do you know if there are conflicts among the potential alien races or species or whatever we want to call it not in terms of any actual direct ufo testimony that i've ever considered credible i mean you've got you've got stories coming to various researchers not to me but other

research i talked to my friend and colleague linda moltene. Linda talked about an encounter she had. I believe this encounter happened. I totally believe Linda on this, that she had in December 1999 with a retired DIA analyst, Defense Intelligence Agency analyst, who apparently told Linda about the U.S. government's monitoring of multiple extraterrestrial groups here. So basically humanoid, human-looking beings look exactly like us. Gray-type human being, you know, the short, big eyes, big head.

And then reptilian-type beings and apparently describing to her that there was like conflict between them or among them over mastery of human species and earth. And it's like, you know, when I hear that, I, I've told this to Linda so I can say it here. I just said, well, I would be, I would be careful about that because you just, I have no way to know how true that is. I know you mentioned one of your viewers had a question about Travis Walton.

And I'll just jump ahead to that a little bit and just say, in his experience, on that craft that Travis remembered quite well, there were non-human and human beings on that craft that Travis remembered quite well, there were non-human and human beings on that ship. And that indicates more of a cooperation than hostility. Now, maybe this is a different non-human group than what this DIA guy was telling Linda. Who knows? Like, it's very difficult to have a scorecard here and to know exactly what's true or not.

There's claims all over the place. For for me there are things that i absolutely can state with confidence without question and then there are things that are you know as the late stanton friedman used to put it i'll put in my gray basket i don't know if they're true or not true and i'll just hold on to them for a little while and just wait and that's where i'm at with uh like the relationships among these other groups again i speculate a little bit about this in my my book the alien agendas and i speculate and it does appear to me when i look at the history of the encounters like with human looking occupants of ufos for example there's a lot of these, lots of them. For many years, I tried to ignore that because I just wasn't comfortable with the idea of human operators of UFOs.

It just seemed illogical to me. But the fact is that there are so many of these. And they don't come from people that I think are wackos. They come from people that seem to be logical and sincere. And so, you know, when you get enough of them, it just doesn't make sense to dismiss them. So when I look at all of those encounters, those beings do not, they don't seem to do abductions.

They don't seem to be doing experimentation on people. They seem to be quite a bit more benign, actually, than reports of like the classic gray aliens. So I think, and when I look at all the reports of gray aliens, all of them, it does seem to me that they take people, they are engaged in biological manipulation of human species and creation of what we call hybrids and all of that and that they have an agenda and that is what it looks like to me so i i speculate in um in my most recent book that there could definitely be either rivalry or some kind of competition between the human looking beings and these greys but you know again, again, it's all speculation. I feel like, you know, when you're a UFO researcher, we have a lot of problems with studying this phenomenon. A, I mean, it's just difficult on its own terms. It's a challenging subject because it appears

to be derived from a group of people in intelligence or intelligences that are more advanced than we are. And so when we want to apply the scientific method to understand this, the problem that you have with that is that every scientist is assuming that they're in charge of the equation. You set the protocols, you're studying the thing. What if we're not the smartest part of the equation?

What if there's a group that's actually beyond us? How do we control the experiment in a way that is going to satisfy our ability to do proper science here? What if we're the experiment in a way that is going to satisfy our ability to do proper science here? What if we're at a big disadvantage like that? And I think that's actually the case. So it's difficult. So it's intrinsically difficult. On top of that, you've got secrecy. The secrecy is real. Secrecy by these other beings and secrecy by our own governments. The United States government has a system of what I call legal illegality to hide this deeply, deeply, deeply through what are called special access

programs within the DOD, within the Department of Energy, and within the CIA. And it's just never going to get oversight. You can't get to it. You can't get there from here. And so we've got that. So it's like being a a kid pressing your nose against a darkened window of a candy store thinking i'm looking at the candy you can see a few things but it's it's not easy and so there's a lot that we just don't know and i hate that that's the case but to me that that looks like the case josh patterson asks any any thoughts from Richard about so-called high strangeness surrounding UFO encounters, fairy lore, correlations, consciousness, and might be first of all, what is high strangeness? I think that's a great question too.

High strangeness is a phrase that came about, I think in the sixties, maybe the seventies, uh, to, to give a term to something that a lot of researchers were beginning to understand. You know, you go back to the 1950s and 60s and the assumptions by the people who were like first looking at this, first writers. You know, they were working off of like Buck Rogers types of concepts. In other words, we were about to go into space. And so therefore, the assumption was these other beings that are operating these craft were probably spacemen, maybe some space women, in metal ships coming from another planet to surveil us and to check us out. You know, like in the movie, The Day the Earth Stood Still and things like that. So that was the absolutely the dominant assumption for more than 20 years,

I would say. But what you have, though, is that there were enough reports, even in the 50s, and certainly in the 60s and beyond, that were very bizarre, where you'd have cases of missing time or cases in which people's cognitive faculties, this is extremely common here, where you have an encounter with an object like this and you don't behave the way you normally would think that you behave. In other words, you might have, there are cases of like a flying saucer,

like directly above someone and they're just ridiculously calm. And then you think back and you're like why why was i so calm uh well i think because there's cognitive and emotional manipulation going on i think they just have that technology they know how to do it or there are cases of objects seemingly coming into and out of reality disappearing not just disappearing like taking off instantly, but just disappearing. Now, maybe there's cloaking technology, totally possible. But you get into some of the other cases where then there's like claims of interdimensional entities that can come into and out of reality. And these even started in the 60s and 70s, where you start getting these types of reports.

So I think that led some researchers to use the phrase high strangeness to describe or the Oz factor is another one, like when Dorothy goes to Oz and everything's weird. So it's like there's something strange about UFO phenomenon. That bumps up against our understanding of what even the nature of reality is, and it challenges our perceptions there. So that's what high strangeness is. And the question, I think it's an important question because, you know, one thing that I've definitely come to believe over the years that I've looked into this is that the question I mentioned consciousness and there's no question to me any longer that consciousness is somehow very important to understanding this phenomenon it's not the only thing you need to know there's like straight up

technology and there's a lot of physical non-consciousness related things important about this, but definitely time and again, almost to the point of cliche, you'll have people who will say the being spoke to me into my mind. It wasn't speaking. It wasn't flapping its gums. That's in fact, honestly, if I were to get a story from someone or a report in which some gray aliens talking, I would probably be suspicious of it because like that never is the case. It's always telepathic. Always telepathic. There have been cases of human looking beings that have spoken. In some cases of them not speaking and of them being telepathic also. But there's a lot of cases of alleged telepathy in these encounters.

So how do you explain that? What's the physics of telepathy? Damned if I know. I tried to hear Michio Kaku talk about this once, and I don't think he believes that there's a science of telepathy. I don't think he thinks telepathy is real. But I think it is real. What's some of the evidence that it's real,

that you've seen that you find most credible just such as remote viewing telekinesis perhaps telepathy yeah yeah well remote viewing and telekinesis those are fascinating to me you know i married a remote viewer uh tracy garbutt and uh she's quite good i mean her she has her own decent track record which i'm quite impressed by but but I've spent time. I know, I know the scientists who created the remote viewing program for Stanford Research Institute, Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ. I know them both pretty well. I've known Joe McMoneagle, one of the world's greatest remote viewers. I've talked to Joe personally. I knew the late Ingo Swann.

I spent an evening in Ingo's home and that was very cool for me. And I've talked to lynn buchanan another these are these are like the classic heroes of remote viewing and the thing is when you look in so what is remote viewing so it was developed in the 1970s let's think of it as psychic spying and again this is not this is something that's not supposed to be not supposed to exist but it does. And they've got a great track record. I mean, they've, in my view, the track record of remote viewing is strong enough.

There's a recent documentary called Third Eye Spies, which deals with some of the really good evidence and stories and like heroic remote views that these people did. It's really quite remarkable. Joe McMoneagle, most famously, one of his great remote views back in 1979. He's working under Skip Atwater who ran the project called Stargate for the Pentagon remote viewing program. So Atwater gives McMoneagle a target. And the way he would give it to him is

latitude, longitude coordinates, like exact to the to the second or even beyond in a sealed envelope okay and he'd give the sealed envelope to Joe and say I'd like you to meditate on this and tell me what you see you don't even they don't even open the envelope most of the time it's not like Joe's like look at the latitude and longitude and guess where this place was no it doesn't work like that joe would go in he went into a room he meditated he said this to me and he's a good illustrator he's a good artist and he drew a manufacturing facility where this massive submarine was being constructed and he actually drew the dimensions of it he drew how many canted tubes that were that that it had and a lot of other things about he drew also a half completed submarine over here and this whole thing and he gave it back to skip and they took that to

the national security council and uh one of the members of the nsc at the time was a younger robert gates who later became director of the cia and the and the pentagon himself but they were all like this is bs like if this would be the largest submarine in the world, it was at a Soviet manufacturing facility. All right. Off the, I think off the North sea. And they were like, how come our actual spies never gave us any indication of this?

Actually. So, so this turned out to be the Soviet typhoon class submarine, which was featured in the Tom Clancy story, The Hunt for Red October. It was that submarine. Anyway, so McMonagle gets this back, and he says to them, well, I don't know, but put your satellites over this, I think, between 90 and 120 days, and you'll see a dockside. And they did, and it was, and that's what that was. And Robert Gates' answer to that, from what I heard, was, lucky guess. Sorry, but I don't consider that a

lucky guess i think that they're they're for that one story there's countless others hundreds of others and so that tells me that we human beings have an ability and you know the way put off uh put it to me was he said look it's like's like, he said, I think of it like musical ability. Everyone's got some, but some people are virtuosos and some are just relatively tone deaf, but everyone's got some, he believes. So everyone can do this, but there's certain training and protocols that, that their program put people through. It's very, it's very rigorous and it works. It doesn't work a hundred percent of the time. These guys are wrong that it's not like you turn on a tv station and you can see things perfectly it's not at all like that

uh they are they are seeing flashes of things and some remote viewers are good at seeing different things they're not all good at the same thing like some musicians are better at different instruments yes absolutely and some will see different patterns and some will see emotions. They'll feel emotions. And so the way you actually do it, if you're going to run a team, it's like you're the handler. And then let's say you've got six remote viewers and you give them each the same assignment.

And if you're a good manager of your team, you know what they're each good at, and you get to learn how to interpret what they do. But that's actually how it works as an intelligence tool. Why do you think it is, if the evidence is somewhat incontrovertible, and it seems like we can perform studies in controlled settings, like this person was given an envelope and so on, so presumably we could have 10 people expert at guessing digits, in another room, 10 people who are laymen guess some target why is it that the scientific community at large doesn't believe this

evidence is it well a couple of reasons simply scanty evidence oh i think in the classified world is probably an abundance of evidence that's the problem you're dealing with science works on money science works on institutional support no one goes off into their basement and does science anymore. Like that's not what that is. It's Alexander Graham Bell. That's not today. So scientists today work in terms of institutional, corporate, and governmental support. And if there's no money, there's not going to be science. Everyone knows that. So I think if you've got something that's very deeply classified, you think about this, where the money is abundant within the black budget world, but the findings are classified and there's no public money going into it in the public world, well, then yes, you're going to get that attitude of scientists. Scientists are just

human beings. They're very intelligent, sometimes a little spectrumy, but they're brilliant problem solvers. And that doesn't mean that they, you know, have the deep wisdom that, you know, I mean, I don't think they're any more deeply wise than the average person, to be honest. They're brilliant problem solvers if they're good. And they're employees. And if the information is not presented to them, why would they possibly think that it's valid? Is there another reason outside of this? The reason I'm saying this is that in 1905, Einstein wasn't a part of any institution, but then took a couple years and his theories were accepted.

A couple years. Didn't take decades. Right. However, this seems like it's taking decades, and there's more than just one einstein there are many people remote viewing so why question well i don't have to think about it i mean einstein did a series of equations and he showed his work and other mathematicians were able to check his work right so um i mean i'm i'm not an expert on that whole process but that's what i'm assuming with the general or special theories of relativity but

with uh with remote viewing i mean all i can say is that there are some scientists who very quietly are intrigued by this but there's a lot of institutional pressure against them it's not just with the reviewing it's with ufos as well like i i will correspond with many many retired academic academicians they're retired it's like when once they're out of that system they feel much more free to talk to me about their interest in ufos or anything else that's weird uh while they're in the system, they just don't, they absolutely don't. It's very political as everyone knows and I think that's a big part of

it. The other part of it is that we have a society that has been, I mean this is me being a conspiracy theorist, but I happily wear that hat. I'm not afraid of that phrase. Back in the 1940s and 50s, we had the beginnings of something that became known as Operation Mockingbird, and that's CIA management and control over US mainstream media. And we know this is true. There's no question about it. No one talks about it. But it was an an active measure program to manage U.S. public opinion through the wire services, through Walter Conkride and CBS and ABC and all the major networks, New York Times, Washington Post, and so forth. And we know this is the case. There's no question about it. And Mockingbird, as a program, continues to this day. In fact, it's deeper and more insidious than ever before. But it works that way with the academic community.

We know that there's been a longstanding interrelationship between particularly the Ivy Leagues and the CIA. There's a big study called Cloak and Gown by the late historian Robin Winks that talks about Yale and the CIA, for example. That's just the tip of the iceberg. And we know about it through the political connections as well. There's a lot of domination of politicians individually through bribery and blackmail. So the intelligence community is this behemoth that no one ever talks about, that has an incredible influence over not just those institutions I talked about, but through culture itself and through managing pop culture and also managing the scientific community.

We know, for example, that the main UFO skeptic for the 1950s and 60s going into the 70s was an astronomer at Harvard named Donald Menzel. After Menzel died, we learned that he had highest level NSA security clearances. He wasn't just an astronomer, he was an expert cryptographer. And his wife did not even know

about his highest level NSA clearances so is it a coincidence that you've got the leading world debunker of UFOs Harvard astronomer and he's doing he's doing debunking work on UFOs with a connection to the NSA that no one happened to know about so that's what I'm saying so you've got so Menzel what did he do he was the if there was some young academic mission back in those days who wanted to get into UFOs, and there were, here alone comes Menzel and smacks him down. Who's going to argue with Donald Menzel back then? No one. managing the herd. Menzel was one of those people, in my opinion. So I think you can control the culture pretty effectively that way through fear, intimidation, and then the culture just creates itself. If you're a young grad student in any department, in physics or history, that's my field, and you had interest in UFOs, let's say you wanted to do a dissertation on it.

Simple question, who would be qualified to oversee that dissertation? There's no one in those fields who really know anything. So it's a self-perpetuating cycle. So there's a lot of things that go into it, but I think it starts with institutional, heavy-handed ridicule and career-ending policies back from the 1940s and 50s. That was absolutely the case. And I think it just continued and deepened. Razor blades are like diving boards. The longer the board, the more the wobble, the more the wobble, the more nicks, cuts, scrapes. A bad shave isn't a blade problem, it's an extension problem. Henson is a family-owned aerospace parts manufacturer that's

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last you a lifetime. Visit henson shaving.com slash everything. If you use that code, you'll get two years worth of blades for free. Just make sure to add them to the cart plus 100 free blades when you head to h-e-n-s-o-n-s-h-a-v-i-n-g.com slash everything and use the code everything. Okay, this question comes from Tyler Goldstein, who has a theory of everything. This channel is about theories of everything, called The Theory of Everyone. His question is,

does Richard Dolan believe that sleep paralysis could often be caused artificially by the beings responsible for the UFO phenomenon? Thanks to you both for exploring such difficult topics. Yes, yes, I do. I think there are many, this is anecdotal based on witness testimony and claims, but nonetheless. Lots of cases, almost typically, where people will state that they were taken and their partner was switched off, or they were in an automobile

and all the other people in the car were switched off, paralyzed, essentially. You have cases, you don't even have to have an abduction experience. There is a case from, a famous one from france in 1965 valen soul case a guy named maurice moss is a lavender farmer at the time and he's he sees a landed craft matt moss you know everything that i learned about him he was a highly respected man in his community uh former french resistance fighter during the second world war anyway so he sees a landed craft in this lavender field it's a flying saucer he goes out there he sees two short

beings and they aim a device at him and he's paralyzed he's standing in the field he can't move and he's watching them they're uh doing soil samples or whatever the hell they're doing he actually even thought that they almost laughed at him or were giggling at him. That was his impression. They get into the craft, they leave, and within a couple of minutes after that, he regains use of his body.

So he was standing upright, frightened? I think so, yeah. I think he was standing. Or just paralyzed, yeah. Standing. So he kept a sense of balance, I suppose, and was able... that's a good question like if you're totally paralyzed and standing i think you'd fall over yeah it's extremely

impossible that's a very good way to put it so i don't know how that worked and i can't pretend that i understand but i thought the story like you know you know, you look at Moss, his life, and the people who vouched, many people have vouched for him in his village. But there's the thing about the paralysis is that comes up a lot. that many people have brought out to describe the abduction phenomenon as nothing other than fantasy, hypnopompic, I think, illusions based on sleep paralysis. And you can say that except for the fact that there are just too many abduction cases that do not involve people lying in their beds and they're not asleep. So I don't really know how to explain that. I don't think that's a good catch-all at all. This one comes from Politically Incorrect. He or she asks, does Richard think there's any relation to the Paul Benowitz case and the recent revelations?

What does he think is or was going on at Mount Archuleta. Yeah, wow. I've been to Mount Archuleta. That's near Dulce, New Mexico. Paul Benowitz, of course, for those who don't know, so back in the late 1970s, Paul Benowitz was a very highly accomplished scientist who had defense contracts with the Pentagon. And he lived and worked

just facing Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque. So he observed, and over there, you also have the Manzano Weapons Storage Facility, where they had a lot of nukes down there. And Benowitz is seeing a lot of strange things over Kirtland that seemed to him to be like UFOs. And so he's a patriotic American, and he actually contacts Kirtland and says, look, there's things going on over there. And you damn well better be on top of this because this is important. They send an Air Force intelligence officer, Richard Doty, who is also very well known. And Doty investigates and he realizes that Benowitz is very probably seeing U.S. tech, some advanced U.S. tech.

Now, that's the argument. I actually think Benowitz was seeing some advanced U.S. tech and he might have been seeing something more, in my own opinion. Anyway, one thing that Doty did, his main mission was to get Benowitz off of the U.S. projects that were being developed there. This was a security leak. And the problem was Benowitz was a nice guy. was a nice guy no one wanted to mess up paul benowitz but they had to they had to make sure that he was not going to be reporting about advanced united states weapon systems that were there so that was of prime importance to them and dodie was primarily responsible for that so one thing dodie did is he took benowitz uh and this is to kind of throw him off of kirtland and to bring him to another place he'd bring he flies him up to Dulce, New Mexico, and they go over Mount Archuleta to give Benowitz this idea that there was an alien base there.

And Benowitz did get into this whole idea that there was an alien base at Mount Archuleta. So the question is, so there was a disinformation campaign, essentially. The questioner is asking about what's going on today. So I hear this a lot. So the group TTSA, To The Stars Academy, which was fronted back in 2017 by the pop star Tom DeLonge of the group Blink-182. But Tom DeLonge also brought in a number of very senior

and impressive individuals on his team. So Luis Elizondo, Hal Puthoff, Christopher Mellon, and a number of others, engineers, high-level people at Lockheed and elsewhere. Okay. And so what they did is they began putting out, starting in 2017, UFO-related information. They were able to get two stories published in the New York Times by Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal in December of 2017. They talked about the AATIP program and talked about the Tic Tac UFO. And To The Stars

put out other information as well. And the question arises, are they disinformation? You got a lot of guys with intelligence backgrounds. Are they just out to feed the public a line of something with a view of manipulating them for some purpose? The most common theory is that because you have Elizondo occasionally talking about these things as a potential threat to national security, the idea is that are they trying to scare up the public to get them to run to the military for protection and then you can pump up the military budget even more? Or for some other kind of false flag or some kind of fear-mongering exercise. And that's what many people have accused them of doing. I'm not one of those people, and I don't have that accusation at all. I don't think they're doing a false flag.

It doesn't mean that they don't have their own agenda. That doesn't mean that they're not secretive. They are. But that's because they've all got security clearances, and they just can't talk about certain things. To talk about UFOs as a potential threat is a completely valid point in my opinion uh i mean look these are military people every hammer is going to look like a nail every every right hammer every solution looks like a nail and to a military guy when you have objects that are unknown hanging out over your weapons and

installations and security places that no one's supposed to go to what are you supposed to do other than think of it as a potential threat like that that's your job. You're supposed to do that. And I just think that's what Elizondo is doing is his job. Does that mean they're going to do an independence day and blow up the white house? No, probably not. But that doesn't mean that they can't be considered a threat. So I don't, I actually don't buy the criticism that they're engaging in disinfo like a CIA disinfo program. I've looked for that evidence. Personally, I don't see it. Personally, I don't believe it. They do have intelligence community backgrounds.

That is true. But I judge them based on, is the information that they put out true or not true? That's first. Well, seems to be true. Is the information they put out relevant or irrelevant? Well, it seems to be relevant. Is it new? Have they added to our ability as a society to have intelligent conversations about UFOs? And the answer is they absolutely have. Now, is there another agenda that we can speculate about? Yes, there's always a potential agenda we can speculate about, but I don't know what that is, and I don't want to spend my time trying to crawl inside their head and act like I know what they're trying to do better than they know what they're trying to do.

Agenda on behalf of the aliens or the u.s government doing the revelations say that again when you said that you don't want to speculate on the agenda whose agenda are you referring to i don't on ttsa so uh tom delong elizondo chris mellon steve justice and and all of those and put off. You know, I know put off personally, and I have, I've tried to pry whatever information I can out of him for 20 plus years. And, you know, he keeps his cards very close to his vest. Always, always.

He's how over the years has given me a lot of interesting information. And that's checked out. As far as I can tell. We have a rapport. I think that I believe him on the things he tells me. He doesn't overdo it. He's never stretched my view. I've talked to Chris Mellon. I've talked to Lou Elizondo and I've, I've never,

I've not found them to be dishonest with me. They don't tell everything they know, but for me to speculate on their ulterior motivations, I just feel like that's the kind of world we're in. The UFO community, it's one thing to be critically minded. You want to be that. It's even another thing to be suspicious. That's fine too. But when you are so suspicious that it goes to knee-jerk paranoia every time new information comes out and you declare every new thing that you encounter to be a hoax or disinfo, then I think you've got a problem. Because the thing that you're not doing,

it seems to me, is actually studying the content of what the other person's trying to say. And when you're not doing that, then we're breaking down as a society because then we're doing what everyone else in the world is doing. You're judging people based on who they are and what you think their associations are rather than what they're saying. And what you're not doing is having a conversation. So I don're not doing is having conversation. So I don't want to contribute to that. So when TDSA or any of the members of that have something to say, I want to listen to what they have to say, and I want to be able to examine it and decide, is this true and relevant or is it not true and relevant? Is it deceptive? Things like that. But so far, they haven't flunked my test.

So I will support them to the extent that they put out information that's valid and useful and contributes to the public conversation on UFOs. It's a fact that all of those people know many, many, many more things than they are saying publicly. Absolutely true. many more things than they are saying publicly. Absolutely true. But what am I going to blame them for that? They can't, and they can't. They can't break the law. Yeah, I know what you mean when you say that there are large swaths of this UFO community that expostulate certain members, which I find to be interesting because the community as a whole is already ostracized and then it's fractionated within it so some people criticize me for having you on or for having jeremy horbell on or louis alessandro you had jeremy and louis alessandro on yeah it was

there were wonderful conversations people if you're watching this and you would like to watch them the links are in the description yes and like a part of me understands it because this phenomenon is so near and dear to the people who study it that they don't want people who they see as unreputable or disreputable to be getting some of the limelight but at the same time the reason why i'm not hitting you with questions like well what's the evidence of so and so like the traditional skeptic would but because be because first of all i can predict you're good you're primarily going to say we don't have hard evidence or hard proof it's not like the sciences and second of all i'm trying to ask you from the perspective of what if what you're saying is true and i just need to i just want to understand how are you coming at this how are

you arriving at your conclusions i don't see that same open-mindedness in this community. Well, that's false. I'm being extremely generalizing. But there are some people in this community who denigrate completely other people in the community. Rather than listening to... Right, ad hominins rather than listening to their arguments. But I also understand it at the same time. A lot of people are keyboard warriors

they don't publish anything they just follow and you know these some of these are the perennial guys who live in mom's basement and they got no other life i mean that's the truth so but they can they can be very loud and prominent and um and they and it can make people think that you know is if someone who does that who just trash talks on someone under a pseudonym which a lot of these people will do like is that a legitimate part of the community or not well they kind of force their way in and because they're loud enough they can make it seem like they're a part of the community but are they really i don't know who these people are i don't want to engage in a debate with anyone if they're hiding behind a pseudonym, that's for sure. Why the hell would I want to play that game? So there are people like that. And we have a society in which mental illness has gone

way up. We have a society in my view that inculcates and increasingly fosters mental illness of all types. And I think that will only increase, not decrease as the decades move on. So we have real problems. Like we have a society that is by its nature psychologically dysfunctional. And so you get, and when you have marginalized communities, and the UFO community has always been marginalized,

there's two things. One thing is it will draw certain unstable people to it because it is fringe. Now, not everyone who's unstable, some people may be unstable because they had an encounter that they don't know how to process. That can absolutely be the case. But there, I once, 10 years ago,

maybe I talked about something I called the, what was it, the broken, the damaged goods syndrome. A lot of people who are drawn to UFOs, they're damaged goods psychologically. It's sad. I mean, I don't make fun of such people. You meet them all the time, and I have only empathy and compassion for them. But there's many. There's something, you know, they're looking for an answer.

Everyone wants to look for an answer. Everyone feels broken inside. Everyone feels like there's something missing you know, they're looking for an answer. Everyone wants to look for an answer. Everyone feels broken inside. Everyone feels like there's something missing in my life. And some of those people, they know there's something wrong with our society. They feel it in their bones and they're right. There is something wrong. You've got, we have a society that has many, many secrets to it. True.

And they will gravitate to UFOs. And some of those people are brilliant. But sometimes they can get really worked up. They're not all psychologically stable. I mean, that's unfortunately the case. So I think that's part of it. And it's also true. Look, there are bots.

Never, ever underestimate the power of the intelligence community to screw up a field. We all remember Snowden. There are bots? What do you mean? You said there are bots. As in robots? Bot farms. Yeah, fake people. You know, Snowden's revelations weren't that long ago. It was less than 10 years ago. And one of the things we learned from Snowden is that troll farms exist.

GCHQ of the UK, that's their NSA. And I think the NSA itself, I think it came out. Like they insert them. They have people on the payroll who pretend to be normal, genuine people, except they're not. They may have 10 different persona that they'll go around and just trash talk in various communities that they want to disrupt. Shit,

the FBI was doing this with COINTELPRO back in the 1960s. You'd have people going in and infiltrating groups. Hoover was all over this. This is an old game. You have agent provocateurs. Joseph Fouché, back under Napoleon, began this technique over 200 years ago it's nothing new so that exists so i don't want to encourage paranoia here but the fact is that we don't we don't know who all these people are so when you're talking about a community that is at war with itself and that is absolutely. There's a lot of factors involved. It's unfortunate. I don't know what to do for myself

other than I try to avoid the fights. I try to, I never get personal. I never, ever get personal. For me, I try to stay on. You know, there's an old statement that young Louis Armstrong got from his mentor, King Oliver. Armstrong was doing those great solos in the early 20s. And Oliver said, stick to the main line, kid.

In other words, don't get cute. Remember what it's about. It's about the song. And as a researcher, it's about the phenomenon. It's not about other researchers. I don't want to go in and start having wars with other people. It's a great way to waste your time. But unfortunately, it's true.

You think UFOs are bad? Look into the 9-11 research community. Good grief. Those people are terrifying. They are at war with each other every day. So there's a lot of fringe communities out there where you have people accusing each other of being agents and being you know disinfo and all that it's a lot of hatreds and and all too often like i've been criticized many times i've done i did a couple of new agey conferences i got invited to i'm not i'm not a new ager you know but i've gone i've spoken there i've done interviews with people who are some of them i think are kind of off the wall one second richard what do you define as new age because some people would say remote viewing and telekinesis are right at the top oh no no they need to get a little bit of an education i don't think they know what new age is and if they think

that is i would say uh do a little more research than that no i'm talking about you know california coast crowd where it's all about creating your own reality and wearing the flowing robes. And I mean, there's a whole culture with that look. And so I've done a number of events with people who are just like that. Some of them are wonderful people. You know, they're great. I mean, I don't agree with their, all of their philosophy, but I'll go in because my attitude is I want to go in. And if there's new people that I can reach, like with your community, a lot of the folks who follow you, they don't know who I am, but there's always someone new out there. And I'm always happy to talk to a new group. But I've been criticized for it. That's my point. Like there's people,

he appeared on a stage with this person and that's a bad person. So now he's a bad person. And I just think- Yeah, guilt by association. Yeah, that's a really dangerous thing. And we do it all too often in our society. And it's super dangerous. It's a great way to destroy a society. Great way to do that. I'm in a similar position as you. Well, actually, I'm an outsider.

So I don't know who to trust or who not to trust. I go by the comment section and I try to talk to the people. I try to go straight to the source. But like you mentioned, some people, there are disinformation campaigns. The main thing you have to do i don't mean i don't want you to finish it but the main thing anyone has to do especially if they've got good critical thinking skills not everyone does but if you do and i'm sure you do then you go by your judgment you go by your assessment which i'm sure you do in the long run right Right. I have extreme sympathy for, I know we just mentioned that the community

is at war within itself, for at itself, I have sympathy for much of these people, much of whom aren't anonymous. The reason why is that I see them as caring so deeply about this subject that as soon as they question the credibility of someone, they vehemently attack them out of love much of the time it's not out

of hate for the person it's out of love for the phenomenon so they're trying to maintain its integrity so i understand it i don't well i understand it and then i i dislike it in some respects and i understand it in another i think i think look you you got to be humble before the ufo phenomenon you better be humble. In other words, this is a very difficult subject. I'm in a position where I had a great formal education before I got into UFOs. Really very strong. And after that, I continued on as independently learning. And plus, I never worked for another company.

I always worked for myself, sometimes just scraping by with nothing, but I did it. So I was always dedicated to this and it's still difficult for me. Like I have a difficult time figuring a lot of things out. And I think like, if, if I, if it's hard for me who has, I have made the time I've set aside the entire, my entire life. So I think, you I think it's complicated. It's difficult. And so I never want to pretend that I've got the answers. UFO subject is like some master on a hill that you go to learn from, like some Zen master in a cave. And you want to learn from them. You don't just walk in and say, teach me everything you know. Like how arrogant. And yet that's what people often think about UFOs. UFOs is that Zen master.

That phenomenon is that great teacher. But you go in with humility. Don't go in like you think you're going to figure it all out. When I started in the early 90s, I was in a bookstore. I saw a classic UFO book called Above Top Secret, The Worldwide UFO Cover-Up. I've talked about this many times by the writer Timothy Goode. And I thought, wow, Worldwide UFO Cover-Up. This is 1993. And I flipped through it. I was like, this is a pretty good book. I bought it.

I was going to figure this all out in three months. I just wanted to resolve for myself, are UFOs a real thing or not a real thing? And I thought, I can figure this out in a couple of months. And then I would move on with my life. Well, that was my arrogance at the time. I thought, you know, and it just doesn't work like that. This is something that's very, very fascinating, challenging, difficult. And the more you dive in, the more nuance you find. So I'm not, it always, like, it's distressing. I don't want to say distressing. It's just, it's unfortunate that there's a lot of folks out there who are absolutely convinced that they've got everything figured out

and there's no room for a good faith debate. You're watching this channel because you're interested in theoretical physics, consciousness, and the ostensible connection between the two. room for a good faith debate. pellucid explanations of abstruse phenomenon such as quantum computing, general relativity, and even group theory. When you hear that the standard model is based on U1 cross SU2 cross SU3, that's group theory, for example. Now, this isn't just for neophytes either. For example, I have a degree in math and physics and I still found some of the intuitions given in these lessons to vastly aid my penetration into these subjects, for example, electricity and magnetism. Sign up today at brilliant.org slash toe, that is T-O-E, for free. You'll also get 20% off the annual premium subscription. Try four of the lessons at least, don't stop before four.

And I think you'll be greatly surprised at the ease at which you comprehend subjects you previously had trouble grokking. Links are in the description. This person named xcalaperful asks, you comprehend subjects you previously had trouble grokking. Links are in the description. This person named Xcala Purful asks, what does Richard think are the top UAP cases for academic study with partial datasets accessible to the public? Cool. Several. Several. Several. I would say White Sands Proving Ground in – oh, God, I need the date. 1940, April 49. when they say data and and things like this so data by whom so what we know is we have

declassified u.s government documents i take those as data scientists might not i don't know what a scientist would do but when i have u.s government documents talking about a missile a u.s navy missile launch in april of 1949 in which a missile has achieved the speed of 1300 miles per hour, and at which point a film captures two white objects circling around it. And then zooming off. To me, that's interesting. I think that's April 24th, 1949. That's a heck of a case. Another one that's not a military one might be the known as the JAL 007 case from 1986. That's an Alaskan Airlines – excuse me, Japan Airlines over Alaska, over kind of almost over the North Pole.

This is not a commercial flight. It was not an airl Pole. This is not a commercial flight. It was not an airliner flight. It was a commercial flight. They were importing, I think, bringing over expensive French wine. And you have for 29 minutes, I think it is, the pilot and co-pilot on their radar and visually, and then you have ground-based radar at two places in Alaska tracking an object that was of immense size that detached two smaller objects that just were in front of the aircraft for a long period of time.

You've got the, is this a scientific data set or not? The 1976, September 76 Tehran Iranian case, one of the most famous cases where you have two successive F-4 Iranian pilots engaging an object that disabled their electronics and avionics equipment on the ship when they were trying to engage in this object. One was about to fire an AIM-9 missile at it when a second before he was about to push the button, the controls went off. This object was just there. Then, according to the pilot, who later became a general in the Iranian Air Force, moved from point to point across the sky.

I don't know if that's a data set that this person's asking for. I mean, what you have are very well- well documented military cases that i can't dismiss them i can't i can't just say he didn't know what he was talking about i've read skeptical assessments of these which are to me just totally unpersuasive totally unpersuasive um i don't know the person asked for five. I gave three. Sorry. There's more.

I just, you know. Sure, that's fine. Matthew Clevenger says, what do you think about the experiment at Skinwalker Ranch? That's another subject I'm extremely interested in. At Skinwalker Ranch and the new info on portals. I don't know what that new info on portals is. I don't know what they're referring to. I don't know what that person's referring to either.

Okay, Matthew, if you can at me so that I can see it, explain what you mean by the new info on portals. Either way, he wants to know what that person is referring to either. Okay, Matthew, if you can at me so that I can see it, explain what you mean by the new info on portals. Either way, he wants to know what you think about the experiments going on at Skinwalker Ranch. Oh, hell, Skinwalker. So you have billionaire Robert Bigelow back in the early 1990s formed an organization called the National Institute for Discovery Science, NIDS. He brings Hal Puttoff on. We mentioned Puttoff. Dr. Kit Green, formerly of the CIA, very interesting man. I know Kit. John Alexander, Eric Davis, brilliant physicist. Colm Kelleher, another brilliant scientist.

place called the sherman ranch in utah and uh it had a long history of alleged paranormal activity and they they called skinwalker ranch because i think it was the ute uh tribe uh talked about these beings called skinwalkers these and um and it was associated with this property so what you have with skinwalker is a long multi-year and in fact, it's been revisited. Skinwalker's, you know, the TV show Unidentified, a TTSA creation, basically. They returned to Skinwalker. going full guns on this with their instrumentation. They were tracking a lot of very bizarre phenomenon there, not just UFO sightings. There were cases of UFOs there, but there were cases of portals or apparent portals or alleged portals. There were cases of cryptoid type creatures that weren't supposed to exist,

like the dire wolf, like this massive wolf. Apparently the owner of the ranch took several shots at this thing, and all he did was piss it off, and it just grumpily turned around and walked away after he loaded it with, I think, a shotgun. There is, you know, Jeremy Corbell, who you interviewed, did a documentary on Skinwalker Ranch. It's called Skinwalker.

The best part about that documentary in my view is the old footage that the journalist george knapp acquired back in the 1990s on something fascinating there's a cattle mutilation case at skinwalker in the 90s that is absolutely just baffling makes no sense how that could have happened the way that it did so you've got a case where it's believed and there are other things they had like classic almost poltergeist activity going on at the house according to George Knapp and Colm Keller who wrote the book on this, The Hunt for the Skinwalker. So there's a lot of strange things going on there. People say it's a portal where the – I don't know. The layer between our world and the other world is thin.

And can that be true? Yeah, I don't know. I'm not the physicist who can say yes or no, this is true. But something very strange about that property, without a doubt. Is there any relationship between UFOs and Bigfoot? Some people might say yes. I don't know that I would say yes or no on that. There are a few researchers.

If you talk to Bigfoot researchers, and I've talked to a few of them, they're interesting people. You've got a felon named Loren Coleman out in Portland, Maine. Coleman's quite experienced, very knowledgeable man. Yeah, it would help me actually if you went through some of the people you consider to be most credible in the Bigfoot field. we'll talk well i just named lauren and i think he is l-o-r-e-n lauren coleman without a doubt he runs a he runs a i think it's a bigfoot or like a cryptid museum in portland it's a cool place very cool place uh there's another another older researcher named stan Gordon of Western Pennsylvania who equally has done UFOs and Sasquatch or Bigfoot sightings in Western Pennsylvania. In fact, Stan wrote a book called, on one year, on the year 1973, in which he compiled UFO and Bigfoot sightings in Western Pennsylvania because he was following them up, and he put them together and it was Stan's contention that they are related there's another researcher who I think might not

agree with that and that's Dr. Jeffrey Meldrum who teaches where the hell does he teach in Idaho Jeffrey Meldrum's his PhD they they try to get him out they try to like run him out of his university but they can't because he's got tenure and And he's done a lot of very detailed, he doesn't use the word Bigfoot. He calls it Sasquatch, but he does a tremendous amount of research on that. So within that community, you've got a split. You've got the people there who believe that all these cryptids, these cryptozoological creatures are simply natural earth creatures like the coelacanth when that was discovered in the 1930s everyone thought it had been extinct for millions of years and then they find it holy crap we got one of these things

you know from the age of the dinosaurs or whatever here it is so there are people who believe that bigfoot or the yeti you know that maybe it's just a an evolved species on our planet that right is very secretive so that's one school of thought and i don't i don't want to speak for jeffrey meldrum here because i could be wrong but my impression is he he might be leaning toward that school uh definitely stan gordon does not and i don't know what lauren coleman thinks you'll have to ask him but anyway um then there are people who do argue that there's a definite paranormal element to sasquatch or bigfoot whether they connect it to ufos i don't know i don't know how they they think of it do they think he's an interdimensional entity i mean you definitely

hear this a lot what does it even mean he's an interdimensional entity? I mean, you definitely hear this a lot. What does it even mean to be an interdimensional entity? Who the hell knows? I try to understand what's another dimension. How is it possible that there is a membrane here and just right like six inches from my nose is another universe? I hear this.

I don't know how to understand that idea, frankly. My common sense just recoils. But you've got all these theories about interdimensionality. Okay, so maybe that's true. But, you know, what do I think? I don't know what I think. I've talked to Bigfoot witnesses. They're every bit as compelling as a UFO witness.

There's no difference. None, in my opinion. So, I mean, you talk to these guys. One of them said to me, he out in oregon in the forest he's like i was 60 feet away from this thing he's a hunter he was like in his mid-30s sharp guy like seemed very honest i was hunting i see this bigfoot and i said the natural question well how do you know it wasn't a bear he said because we don't have brown bears here. We have black bears. This was brown.

So secondly, I know what bears are. This wasn't a bear. He's just like, well, I don't know what to tell you. I'm 60 feet away. That's less than, that's the distance from the pitcher's mound to home plate. You can get a pretty good view of something at that distance. And he said, it looked at me. It stood straight up.

I was scared out of my mind. I started backing away slowly, he said, it looked at me, it stood straight up. I was scared out of my mind. I started backing away slowly, he said. And it just turned around and walked away, walked away. That's his story. Am I going to call him a liar? I don't call him a liar. I've talked to several other Bigfoot witnesses. They seem to be as on point as UFO witnesses. So who am I to tell them that they're lying? I don't know what to make of it. I don't know what to make UFO witnesses. So who am I to tell them that they're lying? I don't know what to make of it. I don't know what to make of it.

This next question comes from Stephen Cambion. He wants to know, how do you feel about your participation in the CIA deathbed confession interview? I'm unsure what that is, but many people keep referencing that in the comment section. Now that other researchers

have proven, quote unquote, that Mann was not who he said he was and never worked for the military or CIA. Oh, wow. I guess I should get up on top of that one. I'll just say this. Look, I met him. I met his son-in-law. I got to know his son-in-law pretty well. This man had been a witness back

in the 90s for Linda Moulton Howe. Yeah, maybe he was just pulling a yarn. I mean, the way it happened, look, I can't know before I go in to interview someone every single way it's going to turn out. And I can't be, you can't make me like apologize for every, if I make a mistake, I've made mistakes. What am I supposed to do? Go cower into a cave? Like it just happened. So this man, if that's true, I promised this because I actually didn't know I wasn't on top of this. So I'll look into it. And if that's the case, I'll make, I'll make my own statement. But the thing is, I wasn't,

I never really knew what to make of it. I was asked in uh 2013 very beginning of 2013 to interview this man i was told he was an important witness i'm like well okay it was actually linda's case and i i didn't want to take it but the impression that i got which turned out to be not true was that that Linda wasn't going to do it. Turns out Linda just didn't know that it was being done. I think she would have easily done it. So I went up there.

It was in northern Minnesota. And I went with a few other people. I'll leave their names off. The late Ron Garner, who is no longer with us. He was the one who really pushed this case. And I was like all right well i'll interview him i did my best to get on top of it i met with him he was a very sweet man i thought he was going to die in front of me like during much of this interview his health was

terrible but i will tell you this i spoke to his son-in-law who was a theology student at the time these are very like these are good people and the son yep, I've heard this man's story for years. He's never wavered. So I, all I did was I interviewed him and I did my best, you know, sometimes the best isn't good enough. I didn't, I didn't go through a detailed background check of him. No, I didn't. You know, so if it's been proven to be a mistake, then well, you know so if it's been proven to be a mistake then well these are the breaks right i'll do my best i'll do people keep mentioning the wilson the wilson memo oh there's another question from great there's another question from steve camion please first can you also let me know what the wilson memos are yes people who are unacquainted you need to know and listeners need to know great great great and then great. And then the question is, Admiral Wilson has called the Wilson documents a total fabrication and said that he couldn't have been in the states the so-called meetings took place in at the time and so on and so on.

Right. Okay. So there's that. Yeah, right. Wilson has to do that. I'm sorry, but he has to do that. And for people who still doubt this, look, there is way too much to put together. And I tell them to go to an article by Juliana Marinkovic, who actually put together

all of the statements and all of the evidence about this long before this thing leaked out in 2019. Statements by Edgar Mitchell, for example. So this is the story. This is what happened. And we know this, all of this happened. I talked about wilson back in 2007 2008 2009 2010 because i knew about this back then so what happened is this is the story in april this is the true story in april 1997 dr stephen greer who's a ufo researcher he's making the rounds in dc and greer is trying to talk to anyone.C. and positions of power who are willing to listen to him about what he considered to be runaway black budget programs dealing with E.T. tech beyond the purview, beyond the control of the United States government. Greer believed that there were rogue programs. And he actually had the codename of, uh i think at least one of them so he's going in and he and because he's accompanied by astronaut edgar mitchell of apollo 14 and also a navy commander

named willard miller um that got him enough cachet to get a meeting with admiral thomas wilson who at the time was deputy head of intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. This is April 1997. So they get a meeting, and Wilson actually is not alone there. He's with his boss, who's General Pat Hughes, who was one step above him. And there was another admiral. I can't remember that admiral's name offhand. So they have this meeting, and Greer gives his presentation. Meeting ends. gives his presentation meeting ends and uh miller navy commander stays behind talks to wilson for a little while and they talk about ufos uh there's a there's an interview with greer and

miller from i think 2013 where they actually talk about this meeting in a limited way but they were like oh yeah i remember this and wilson's like yes hold the next meeting hold the next meeting i want to talk i want to talk to these guys and he kept canceling the new meetings it's this it's a youtube video and you can hear them discussing this uh but anyway so miller and wilson talk about this after the fact they're talking and they talk about ufo cover-up what wilson said to greer was that he would look into this. And he did. So for the next two months, he gets advice from different people in the Pentagon, including former Secretary of Defense William Perry, who just retired from that position. and within that called SAPOC, that special access program oversight committee, SAPOC. And he finds out that within that, within those special access programs, these are black budget programs that have little to no oversight, that nested within one and within that one, and then within that one, like I said, within one, within another, with another, he found what he

believed he was looking for. And he called, he actually makes a phone call to the program manager of this. It's a private contractor. It's probably Lockheed Martin. And he says, you have a program that seems to deal with a subject that I need to have oversight over, and you are negligent because I'm not overseeing this. Wilson was, again, deputy head of intelligence for the Joint Chiefs, and he thought he had oversight. He was wrong he was wrong he didn't so the program manager says uh i'll get back to you let me talk to my colleagues and we'll see what we do so he gets back to me says well we're we're not going to have a phone conversation but you can meet with us and wilson flies out yes i know wilson has said he's never went out there uh so uh well actually wilson wilson

did not say that wilson said he never met with eric davis for the interview but anyway wilson goes out and he meets with them they tell him yes we're reverse engineering an alien or a craft that is not made by human hands, not by man, not of this world. And we've made painfully slow progress in understanding it. Wilson says, well, I want in. They're like, no, you're not coming in. He says, well, you're wrong. They show him a list known as the bigot list, B-I-G-O-T, derived from World War II. It doesn't mean bigotry. It means something totally different. And that's a list of who's in and who's out or who's in. And it's roughly 500 people. And he notices they're all

corporate contractors. Almost none of them are DOD people. And he says, well, I need in. And they're like, no, you're not coming in. Well, what are your criteria? Well, we don't have to tell you our criteria except you're not in. Well, I'm going to go complain. I said, be our guest, complain, see if we care. And they actually said, the only reason we're meeting with you now is because we were nearly outed a few years ago during the Pentagon audit. And we had the auditor nearly exposed us and we had to read him in and we're dealing with you. We've actually tightened our security measures since then. And it's true, William Perry did a total reorg of the DOD back in 1993 or 94. So anyway, so Wilson goes back and he does complain and he's threatened with his career and it pisses him off, but he's like,

what can I do? So he was told like, if you want to complain, you will take an early retirement. You'll probably lose a couple of stars along the way. And don't think about becoming head of DIA. So he played ball. He became head of DIA. And then five years later, he retires. And this is what happens in five years. In 2002, Eric Davis is. So Mitchell was part of Greer's team.

Keep that in mind. So Edgar Mitchell knew about this. He had gotten feedback that Wilson went on his wild goose chase for two months. Wilson probably talked to Will Miller about this. He had gotten feedback that Wilson went on his wild goose chase for two months. Wilson probably talked to Will Miller about this. That is my best guess. He might've talked to Mitchell about it as well. Mitchell reports back to his people. Who are his people? The NIDS people under Robert Bigelow. Mitchell was on the board. So was Puthoff. so was Kit Green, so was Eric Davis, all of these people. They are all of them. What is their mission?

Their mission is they want to get to the center of the labyrinth. That's all they want to do. They have security clearances. They know Kit Green's another one. They know a lot, but they don't know everything that they want to know. That's a fact. So they send – so they knew about this for five years through Mitchell. And in 2002, when Mitchell – when Wilson retired from the DIA, goes into private industry, it might have even been before he got hired by ATK, which is where he got hired.

Davis – Eric Davis is sent out to interview Wilson. And yes, I know that Wilson denied being out there, and I don't believe him at all. Davis goes and he hits a home run interview. He sits with Wilson. He writes 13 pages of notes that are typewritten, 13 pages. Wilson, Davis, Wilson, Davis. They're paraphrased notes, but they're detailed because that's how Davis is. He's a brilliant physicist. He's extremely detail oriented.

I spoke to him. He might, he might have recorded it. He might have transcribed it just from notes. I don't know. So what does he do? He gives it to his colleagues in NIDS. He gives it to Green and Puthoff and Mitchell and all those guys. In 2006, long time ago, one of those people showed me those notes. Okay. I was shown two pages or possibly three pages, and I've never been able to figure out was it two or three. I was shown part of the transcript by one of those individuals, and I will not and have not and will not give up his

name because he's asked me not to if he dies i'll give up his name still alive the point is so yeah it wasn't mitchell because mitchell did die uh however i was shown the part of the transcript explicitly where it said this stuff was not made by man not not by human hands, was not of this earth. And by the way, in a 2007 podcast I did with the, what was it called? Gene Steinberg's The Paracast. I actually was talking about this and I didn't say that I had seen pages, by the way, because I didn't want to give that up either. But I actually didn't, I used the phrase, not made by man, not by human hands. I was referring explicitly to it. That's in a 2007 interview from july 1st by the way someone can hunt that down so anyway i saw those pages and uh but you know they stayed they stayed um hidden for years and i talked about it for a few years, and then I talked about it less and less.

And I was like, I'd still always talk about it. In the end of 2018, the interviewer, Jimmy Church, asked me what was the biggest story that I knew that I'd never really talked a lot about. And I brought this up. And at that point, I mentioned that I was shown pages of a document. And at that point, I mentioned that I was shown pages of a document. What I didn't know at that time was that they were actually circulating among the smallest handful of people at that time. Because Mitchell had died, I think in early 2017. And when he died, and I still want to be careful about how I describe this, but when he died, some of his papers were going to be thrown into a dumpster, believe it or not. And someone very close to

Edgar Mitchell said, no, please let me take them. And the member of the family said, fine, take them. And he took them. And in those papers, among those papers, were these notes that Eric Davis had written up back in 2002. The notes that I had been shown two pages of back in 06, exact same thing. It leaked, Grant Cameron, researcher, saw it in November of 2018. I think I gave my interview with Jimmy Church in December of 2018, if I'm not mistaken. I think I gave my interview with Jimmy Church in December of 2018, if I'm not mistaken. But I didn't know Grant had it. And then in April of 2019, someone sent them to me via a ProtonMail account that they'd set up.

They were on an Imgur page. I-M-G-U-R. Is that how you pronounce it? So it was just a bunch of JPEGs that were not searchable. And so you had a very, very few people who had access to this, but I, I saw that link and I was like, Oh my dear God, this is exactly what I was shown back in 06. So I knew it was, I knew it was the real deal. I knew it was the real deal, but then I thought, well, I don't want to leak it myself. Like I didn't want to be that guy. And Grant didn't either. I talked to Grant about it. He's like, well, now you're in the box I'm in. What are you going to do? So my plan was

I was going to wait. I was going to wait a limited amount of time. And if no one else leaked them, I was just hoping someone else would leak them. I didn't want to be the one to do it. But I decided if no one else was going to leak them within maybe by the summer, that's what I was thinking, maybe late summer, decided i would i would do it and i would just take the shit storm that would happen as a result of that but fortunately for me i mean i didn't i wasn't the one who leaked it and i actually don't know to this day i don't know who that person was but i saw in early june of 2019 on a limited email list that I was part of, that people were talking about this, that document. And at that moment I thought, I'm just going to do this.

So I wrote and put out a YouTube video in which I called this the UFO leak of the century, which I believe it is to this day. And that's when, you's when you've got people, look, with respect to some individuals out there, I just don't think that they've really studied this. Edgar Mitchell talked about, by the way, so after, we'll go back to 2006. After this person showed me those pages of that document,

I read Stephen Greer's recent book, which was recent at the time called Hidden Truth, Forbidden Knowledge, in which he mentions this, and he mentioned Wilson by name. And I wrote back to my guy who had showed this to me, and I said, oh, it's Wilson. He says, yes, it's Wilson. So I thought, well, I'm going to go find Wilson myself. it's Wilson. He says, yes, it's Wilson. So I thought, well, I'm going to go find Wilson myself. And he, and this person said to me, do you think he's going to give this one up? This is, he cannot and is not legally allowed to. I, and I knew this, but I thought, well, I'm just going to try, see what happens. So I wrote to, I found Wilson's email. I wrote to him and it was the only time in my career that I actively misrepresented myself. I felt a little

bad about it, but I thought, well, I'm just going to do it. So I said, I didn't say I was a UFO researcher. I just said I was researching the U.S. Navy and his career came up and I was very intrigued and I would like to talk with him. So fine. Sorry, Admiral Wilson. I have respect for Thomas Wilson to this day. I have nothing against this man. I understand he was put in a tough position. So anyway, he agreed to, he gave me his office phone number and I called him. This is still late 06.

And so he answers the phone. He's very, I could almost hear him easing into this big chair, like getting ready for a nice long interview. And I, right away i said well i'm i'm right i write about ufos in the u.s military to be honest with you so sorry about the ambush here but there was a meeting that i know you were part of in april 97 and and uh it had to do with et tech and you were with stephen greer and edgar mitchell he he pretended to not remember this at first,

but I said, look, sir, I've got this confirmed. I said, I spoke to Edgar Mitchell. I spoke to Stephen Greer's, I actually, Greer wouldn't talk to me back then. So he had some associate who said, yes, Greer was there, of course, obviously. Mitchell, when I asked Edgar Mitchell about this, I said well what did what did Mitchell what did Wilson say he would do Mitchell didn't want to talk to me because I wasn't in the crowd Mitchell said well Wilson just said he would look into it that's all he said he would do but I knew it happened and then this other scientist who has gone unnamed who gave me the very deep backstory that Wilson was denied access and so on.

I mentioned to Wilson, I said, look, I have this on three sources that you absolutely had this meeting. And he said, oh, yes, I vaguely remember it now. I was a busy man. You know, we were worried about weapons of mass destruction and all this other stuff. I didn't have time for UFO things. mass destruction and all this other stuff. I didn't have time for UFO things. He said, the only reason I even agreed to meet with him is that someone of Dr. Mitchell's stature was interested in this.

And I thought, well, why would a moonwalking astronaut be interested in UFOs? Well, okay. So anyway, I said, well, you know, the whole thing was written about in Stephen Greer's book. He said, read to me what he said. So I read the passage in which Greer talks about the

meeting and then the follow-up in which Wilson's denied access by private contractors. And Wilson said, well, that part is true, but everything else is poppycock. And he got, he got so angry. His voice got a bit high pitched and he, he ended the phone call, you know, I wasn't trying to be mean to Admiral Wilson and, but anyway, so that was my interaction with him. And I will just say, look, it was very obvious that this upset him. And with all of these people, like I, I begged the scientist who showed me those pages way back in 06. In 2019, I begged him.

I said, please let me use your name. And he's like, no, no, no, no. And none of them do. Davis won't go on the record. Davis has come like this close. If you really listen to Davis's statements, he is. Davis has this gift for walking right up to the line, right up to the line, but not stepping over it.

He goes right up there. I got a no comment from Hal Puttoff and Kit Green, both of which are hilarious, not no comments. They're almost like apologies rather than no comments about this davis issued a similar no comment all of these people can't they cannot talk about if any of them were to they would they would definitely lose their security clearances and the thing is all of them are trying to get to the center and this is the same same for wilson i can't believe like how people

can be so naive about this world. When you retire from federal classified service and you go work for private industry, you don't lose your clearances. You get more clearances and they become better and deeper. And that's because all the actions in private industry, that's where it is. So do you think Wilson doesn't have security clearances? Of course he does. They're probably better than breaking ranks. And, you know, it's like in the mafia and actually one of, one of these folks in this community said to me, it's like,

you don't even need to sign NDAs at a certain point. All right. You just know you do not give up information or things will go bad for you. They just know they don't need to be told so that's the world and uh you know there's some it's one thing for a casual observer who doesn't really understand this world world security clearances and intelligence community and ufos to have these questions i understand that but there are some experienced journalists out there they should know better and they seem to forget this as well but anyway um when i talk to some of these folks behind the scenes i will only say every one of them says oh yes i know that document's totally real i know that absolutely happened and they've known for

years and you're in a situation here. And so I'm out here standing. At times, it feels like I'm standing alone on the Wilson document, the Eric Davis Wilson notes. There are some other folks out there who support them, but they're not very forthright about it. Most people just prefer to run away. One is a famous journalist who said to me privately, oh yeah, I've known about this for more than a decade as well.

Thanks for going out there. I'm like, well, do you want to go out there and they're like no i can't it would it would damage me so um unfortunately that's where and the irony is that this is not even a formal government document it's private notes written up by davis dav Davis gave an interview for the basement office. It's the New York Post series of interviews. And he nearly, even at that moment, practically validated those notes. People should go back and listen to it. So, no, it's a fascinating story. And I do consider it the UFO leak of the century.

Absolutely. So that's a fascinating story. And I do consider it the UFO leak of the century. Absolutely. So that's a long, that's a long backstory there. You're getting plenty of plaudits from the audience. Spudhead Johnny says, Richard, you're a top man. Carl Cartesian said, Richard Dolan is class. Someone wants to know, what do you think this person, Fredis33, what does Richard think about Bob Lazar? Is he legit? Oh, God.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. That's always nice. There's plenty more. I just don't have the time to read. I'll send them to you, to your email. It's fine. Thank you. It's okay.

As far as with Lazar, I say that because there are people who really, they like me. And then there are people, every now and then there's someone who just hates me. And that doesn't, like in the old days, I would be like, why don't you like me? My mom thinks I'm cool. And I'm like, why, what did I ever do to you? But I just realized like you know you can't you just cannot please everybody that's just life um I try my best I try my best to just do good work and and just leave it at that as far as what I think about Bob Lazar um yeah when I

wrote my second volume of UFOs in the National Security State years ago I agonized over that and all I tried to do that was back in 2009 when I published that book. Because I went into my research with Lazar. I was very much on the fence, and I didn't know what I thought. And I assume everyone watching this knows Bob Lazar claimed to have seen flying saucers near Area 51 in a place he called s4 in nevada in uh in late 1988 early 1989 on i think a total of six occasions he was interviewed by george knapp in 1989 under a pseudonym originally dennis i think and then comes out as Bob Lazar by the, I think in 1990. So, yes, I think I believe Lazar's story. Not long. Eric Davis recently just said Lazar was full of it.

And I was surprised because I know other people in that little world connected to Davis who who i know that they believe lazar's story so i was i was a bit surprised when davis said what he did but um yes i think so i i don't know that everything lazar said is true but that doesn't mean he's not being truthful there's a there's there's one theory that i find actually interesting that could square the circle. I mean, first of all, you've got problems with Lazar. Standen Friedman talked about Lazar's educational issues. Like he said he went to MIT. He never went to MIT.

He said he went to Caltech. He never went to Caltech. Yeah, true. Two things I would say about that. One, look, I remember the 1980s. I lived through the 80s in the early 90s and the fact was back then people lied lied lied about their credentials all the time all the time i mean look i don't defend the practice i never did but i knew a lot of people. I used to write professional resumes

for job seekers, worked with thousands of people. And I knew, like, I can't do background checks on all these folks, but I knew they were not all truthful about their background. One woman, finally, she was a very nice lady. She was the HR director somewhere. She said, yeah, I got fired because they found out that I didn't have this degree that I said I had. It's like, it was in the early 90s. Like, how many times did that happen? So did Lazar lie about his education? Yeah, probably.

But actually, what I think he did is he may have audited a couple of courses at Caltech or MIT for no credit. That's what it looks like to me, actually. So I'm like, look, am I going to throw his whole story out because he did that? To me, that's just ridiculous it's silly um there are people who would say oh well he lied about that i can't believe anything he says okay fine fair enough i'm not going to do that so i want to look at the story can it be corroborated look you talk to george knapp who interviewed lazar uh george has interviewed about 25 other people in addition to lazar who have had stories very similar or that have corroborated various elements of what bob lazar has said that doesn't prove

lazar is truthful but it but there's a tremendous amount of corroboration and and keep in mind lazar was first to go public he wasn't the first to talk to private researchers but he was the first to go public he's the reason we learned about area 51 lazar he's the reason people knew where to go to look for the ufos he said they fly every wednesday over in this location they start going like how did he know that he knew something he knew something and they got arrested the second time they went out with john lear and a couple of other people and he got in trouble and he lost his job and his clearance and whatever but uh george you know did investigation of lazar he did find he worked at los alamos national labs in 1982

he almost almost certainly did meet with edward teller who probably got him the job at eg and g in you know 1988 to do what he did um yes i think so so um and then you talk to people who knew lazar before all of that i i have a friend named ron reguerre who's a great guy ron knew lazar back back in the day, back earlier, before 1989. And Ron, you know, what do you say? Ron's like, I'm telling you, man, Bob Lazar is 100%. So Lazar's got people who support him. And I listened to that. It doesn't mean that it informs my entire judgment,

but I'm not going to blow off Ron Reguerra's assessment. I know and like and respect Ron. But I believe Lazar going to blow off Ron Reger's assessment. I know and like and respect Ron. But I believe Lazar's story fundamentally – oh, so here's the theory that the late, great, crazy genius Gordon Novell shared with me years ago. publicizing the technology of something known as the ARV, the legendary alien reproduction vehicle that was supposedly shown in November, 1988 to Bradford Sorenson. He's a real guy, Sorenson, aviation executive, who saw three hovering flying saucers

at Lockheed's Halland uh, Hellendale big hanger in 1988. He was brought in with a high level defense official. Okay. So this is a story. And according to that story, that object ran on the vacuum. This is one year before the first paper on zero point energy comes out. What year was this approximately yes november 1988 so it was one year before in fact the first paper on zpe was uh co-authored by hal putoff putoffs all over the place zero point energy which has also come you know conveniently or colloquially

described as the vacuum sometimes so let's So let's say there's a craft that has something to do with zero point energy. Like pretend that that's the solution to the flying saucer energy mystery. Let's say that they can exploit the ether or zero point, like what Tesla believed in this, I think. And maybe it's true. So if it is true, and let's say we're on a team to build a flying

saucer, utilizing ZPE, but we know that there's competitors out there and we don't want them to be on our path. We don't want them to compete with us. So what might we do? We might psychologically profile a guy like Lazarar knowing that he could be compromised knowing that he's has this attitude where he just didn't seem to give a shit about certain things and you give him fake information so you talk to him about this thing running on element 115 jokingly referred to as unobtainium because it's so impossible to get a a stable isotope of it that that lasts for more than a split second we don't know how to do it yes they were able recently like 10 years ago to

create some level of element 115 but it can't you can't get a stable version of it so here's lazar talking back in 1989 like saying yes i was told that it runs on element 115. Not that we manufactured it, but that it was brought here by these aliens, I think is what he said. So unobtainium. So if we were on the team and we wanted to throw off our competitors, we might say,

we might make up a cock and bull story about element 115. And then the competitors would say, oh crap, we can't build this. Let's just give up. Not gonna work. Like that was Gordon Novell's theory, which he shared with me many years ago. And I thought, oh, it's actually kind of interesting.

That's intriguing. Maybe there's something to that. But I don't know. Why was Lazar told what he was? Were they playing a game with him? Anything is possible. Anything is possible. It's like working in, researching in a hall of mirrors. What is the real and what is the reflection? It's difficult as hell sometimes. So that's why I think like Lazar's story is interesting, but it's also not – it's not a make-or or break thing for ufology as a whole.

Fortunately. What parts of his story do you feel are legitimate? Not just what he was told, but what he was told in response to the truth. Where he said, I saw a craft and went into it. It was very small and I couldn't

get into it. I could practically fit in. I believe that. I don't think he's making that up. I spoke to Lazar about two weeks ago. Oh, yes. How about that? Not for a podcast. He's a pertinacious little fellow.

And I want to desperately get him on. Did you say pugnacious? Pertinacious. He's stubbornly persistent. And he, I want, I'm more interested in how is the strong force associated with gravity because he's made that claim. He calls the strong force gravity number one or gravity number two. So I'm extremely interested in speaking with him. and um but like you could see when you listen to him and you watch him i've watched him a lot and he he's a real intellectual and like a lot of these intellectuals you said pertinacious sure they don't all have the best social skills you know you're talking about people who are analytical problem solvers and um and they're out of the box thinkers lazar is absolutely an out-of-the-box type of thinker too.

And I think that's why he actually was brought in. So he was a very smart, smart guy who didn't think like a normal person. He put a jet engine on his car. That's what got him in the newspapers in Los Alamos all those years ago. That's how he met Teller. So he's kind of like a crazy genius

who is on the quiet side. I'm not going to give a psychological profile of Lazar, but he's clearly a hyper-analytical kind of a guy who is probably not – he is not always easy to deal with probably. I'm just going to guess. is easy to deal with, probably. I'm just going to guess. Ben in Toronto, at Ben in Toronto, wants to know, when the former head of the Israeli space program, Haim Eshed, made the statement last year about a galactic federation, do you think he's making that based on some facts or his own personal beliefs? Yeah, that's a great question. I think probably a bit of both. That's my hunch. I have not spoke to Haim Eshed. I don't know him personally. He's very advanced in years. This is a man who he ran Israel's, what was it? I think either their space agency. I think that's what it was. And he had some senior position within their defense establishment in general terms. defense establishment in in general terms so he he was a guy like you can assume he probably was briefed on certain things i mean israel's active with their space exploration um they've they've

got unacknowledged nukes obviously that no one ever is allowed to talk about but they clearly have at least 200 nuclear missiles um that they get a pass for by the global community for some reason but uh so they have they have a very highly highly advanced extremely like some of the most advanced genius scientists in the world who deal with space and he's one of these people he's dealt with that so i have to assume he's been briefed and then he knows some things and then he knows what he's talking about on the other hand um yeah when he talks about the galactic federation first of all when he talked about donald trump probably knowing about it that could be absolutely like he might have just known for real uh would surprise me if donald trump didn't know something about this but when he starts talking about the Galactic Federation,

this is something that you hear. In fact, in the New Age, we talked about the New Age community a little while ago. Like this is a big thing with the New Age UFO community, the Galactic Federation, sometimes the Galactic Federation of Light. And for my part, maybe I'm the one who's wrong.

Does this have to do with the Pleiades? The Pleiades? Yeah, sometimes they're brought into it. What is it called? The Pleiades, right? The Pleiadians. I heard of this. Yeah, they get roped in sometimes, yes, sometimes, no.

There's different groups, supposedly, that are involved, and I don't know how anyone really knows the truth on this, to be honest with you. But maybe I'm the one who's wrong. Maybe there is a Galactic Federation, but I don't personally, maybe there is a galactic federation and I've just, but I don't personally believe that there is. So when I hear Hayim Eshed talk about this, I think he's probably working off of, you know, people in the UFO community. Edgar Mitchell was the same way.

Astronaut Edgar Mitchell. I mean, I knew Edgar, I wasn't close friends with him, but he, he wrote endorsements for my first three or four books i was very grateful to him and he and i talked with him and he he clearly knew certain things but he was also working with researchers in the community and his own beliefs and i think that's probably the case with with mr eshed so i i suspect it's a combination of both. And then, you know, the other thing is when you get to that age, and I read his statements, he struck me as someone who is still very much in command of his faculty. So I don't want to be misunderstood here.

But I also will say when someone gets to a certain age, they either stop giving a damn and they just talk. And that could very well be the case with him. But it also can happen. I mean, I saw this with my own father before he died. The stories change. The stories change. My dad was a New York City cop, and I knew all of the stories. And they changed around what age?

They changed precipitously? He died at the age of 79, a month before he turned 80. And I would say in the last, for him, the last two years, he would tell me, it always goes back to Brooklyn and dealing with the gangs. You know, that was like his glory years. And I remember saying to him, Hey, that's not how that story went down. He says, what are you talking about? Richie? I was always Richie to him. That's what it was. And I'm like, no, not really. I wasn't going to argue with my dad, but I knew the stories change.

So things do happen and cognitive things happen to people who get older. Sometimes. And it can happen at different ages. With my dad, it was after he turned 75, maybe 76. And I don't know that that's the case with Mr. Eshed. I don't know. But I do say like when you deal with very elderly witnesses, I'm just sorry, but you have to keep that in mind. You got to keep in mind the possibility of cognitive decline and stories changing and it can happen and it has happened sometimes not always

at wax sublime whose name is adam langley wants to know do you know anything referring to the past of bob lazar calling aliens or aliens calling us containers. Oh, love these questions. Yes, yes, yes. So Lazar said when he, before he actually went into S4, that his first day of briefing actually consisted of him being brought to a room and having to read materials. of him being brought to a room and having to read materials. And so these materials talked about these alien beings to a significant extent.

And in that briefing, Lazar read that the beings, I think it was the aliens, referred to us as containers. Now, I don't think that in Lazar's reading or in his statement about his reading, let's say, that he ever actually really explained what he thought that meant. And I mean, I think it's an obvious thing to think what it could mean, you know, containers for what? For your soul? For whatever that element of you that might survive the death of the body, if such a thing is possible. I personally believe that that is possible. It's my own opinion at this point in my life. And that the body would be the container for the soul. So I think that's probably how I would answer that. This question comes from Tyler Cates. If angels landed, okay, forget about angels. So if someone landed and threatened to murder you, if you don't prove the existence of an alien spacecraft,

how would you convince them? Wait, wait, wait. Okay, let's say someone puts a gun to your head and says, convince me. Puts a gun to your head, says, convince puts a gun to your head says convince me aliens exist or the existence of alien spacecraft what would you do well what i would do is i would say put the goddamn gun down first of all let's talk sorry i shouldn't use the language um what i was what i've said for years right. I'm not going to prove to you that aliens are here. What I will prove is that for 75 years, the United States government has covered up its opinion that UFOs are real based on military declassified documents.

And what I will say I could prove is that there have been encounters with UFOs that look like flying saucers by the United States military. That I think I could prove. I mean, if you want to accept declassified government documents as legitimate forms of evidence, which I think if you're not going to accept that, then I don't know how to have a conversation with someone. So you've got documents that come out of the national archives through foia and um and they show time and again one i mean this is what i wrote about in my two volumes of ufos in the national security state it was the primary thing that i tried to do is to highlight what the foia record tells us which is that you have case after case after case after case of u.S. jets, U.S. military personnel encountering UFOs, doing extraordinary things. And then you learn, oh, it's not just the

Americans. This happens in the Belgian uranium mine in 1952. It happened countless times over the Soviet Union. When the Soviet Union was cracking apart in the late 1980s, guess what? Information came out there too. That was their moment. That's when the window was open. And we learned about KGB files, their so-called blue folder, I think it was called. And we learned about the unbelievable July 28th, 1989 case over Kapustin Yar. That's their rocket facility. That's their equivalent of White Sands. Unbelievable case. Astonishing. Or March of 1990, you know, west of Moscow,

where you have more engagements by Soviet jet fighters. You have Soviet generals describing the object doing S maneuvers, both vertically and horizontally, and more and more. I mean, so there's what i could say is i could prove that there's a phenomenon that again i just would say is not supposed to exist but it does now that's the start of the conversation where does that conversation end does that mean we're building we've got a secret breakaway civilization?

That's a phrase I coined many years ago to describe a super advanced secret technological society that's got their own scientific breakthroughs that they keep classified and you're not allowed to have it and so forth. And did they invent flying saucers secretly some years ago? Is that what's happening? I don't know. Maybe. You could speculate about that is it is it that the nazis back in world war ii actually were developing this and we brought those scientists over through paperclip and we developed it there that's an argument whatever the answer or is it aliens or is it something else like whatever the answer is it's interesting i mean you – people should acknowledge that's a damned interesting thing to look into. But that's where you start, and so that's what I would be confident to say.

Now, does it mean it's aliens? Well, I mean frankly, when you look at the different hypotheses, like know, like Nazi tech developed secretly in the US, okay, maybe, or some other kind of earth-based scenario, all of those are possible. But to me, when I've looked at them all, I see all of those as actually less likely than another non-human civilization. That's my own opinion. I think combined with the evidence, let's say testimony, might be a better word, from large numbers of people who have encountered what they are convinced are non-human entities,

often and frequently in connection with these UFOs. So when I put all of that together, I think that's my favorite hypothesis. That's the one that makes the most sense to me, that there are other beings, they don't come from here, wherever they come from. I don't know where they come from.

And I can't, I sure as hell can't prove it. And I would be a fool to try. So if I couldn't prove those aliens and they would probably would pull the trigger and i'd be dead so i couldn't i don't know if i would want to try to prove that ufos are aliens i i don't think that's the smart way to go i think what you want to do is you look at the evidence of what we have available and that's the thing like most people don't look at the evidence they just don't they don't familiarize themselves with it so you look at the evidence and then you come up with your best best hypotheses and there's room for

you know good faith disagreements i totally believe that i get corrected i have a membership website richardolamembers.com. There are people who belong to my site. They're way smarter than me. I learn from them all the time. They have different opinions sometimes than I do. And I can tell you, I always make sure to listen carefully to them because there's so much more that I still can learn. On the topic of potential other beings, do you think that we can communicate with them through DMT or psychedelics? Do you think that when people claim to have encountered other entities, that this may be related to this

phenomenon of alien life, UFOs? Yeah, possible. I've never done DMT. I've not done an ayahuasca journey. Sorry. Most I've done is a little bit of pot. That's the farthest I've never done DMT. I've not done an ayahuasca journey. Sorry. Most I've done is a little bit of pot. That's the farthest I've ever gone down the road of hallucinogenics, anything. I don't think that counts. So there are people who've done ayahuasca journeys and they talk about encountering entities, often lizard-like or reptilian-type entities. And apparently, at least anecdotally, they will seem to describe a lot of consistency. And I do know, like in the DMT community, there's lots of discussion. What's going on here? Is this all internal reality?

discussion what's going on here is this all internal reality or is this have we opened a doorway to an actual genuine reality that is you know beyond the doors of perception basically that we we can access through the right state of being state of mind or chemical balance and whatever and i know they discuss this and i think a lot of them believe that they're actually encountering something genuine, something real. Could be that to me, that's, I haven't done that. And I don't know how to relate to it in my own internal experience, you know, because I haven't had it done. I haven't done it. But yeah, I wouldn't say no. I would, I would say it's possible that there's a connection there to some extent. Keep in mind, though, there's a definite physical nature to a good portion of the UFO phenomenon. You've got countless ground trace evidence.

had laboratory analyses done frequently of materials where UFOs like affected the plant life, where it landed and things like this. It was a good French case from January, 1980 that, what the hell was it called? Provencal case that Jacques Vallée wrote about this. They had a lot of scientific examination done of the grass and of the trees and anomalous things. So there's a physical nature to the UFO sub-phenomenon, but is it possible that there is a dimensional connection somehow? Yes, totally possible.

I don't know. Oliver Drow wants to know, please ask him what he thinks of Project Galileo led by Avi Loeb will it work? oh yeah I'm going to pass because I know of it but I don't and I know Avi Loeb is engaged

in in doing this project but I'm going to just plead ignorance because I don't know all the details that Avi Loeb is planning to do Relating to it. So I apologize. I just I'm not on top of that one And for those of you interested in Avi Loeb, we interviewed him on this channel You can check the description and it'll be there. I just want to say this I don't want to I have nothing to say against Avi Loeb not nothing at all. However

It's very obvious that he's he's not a UFO expert, not that everyone has to be. I'm pleased that he's open enough about the UFO subject, or at least the possibility that we're being visited, that that's a good thing. And that, you know, that's a good thing. But I've not really gotten the sense that he really knows deep, that he has deep information about this subject. But I'm glad that he's taking an active role and to the extent that he engages in positive discourse, I think that's to the better. Philip Koshy wants to know Ross Colthart, mainstream Australian. Yes. Colthart, investigative reporter from the 60 Minutes, has written a book that, among other things, has gotten a deathbed confession talking about a black budget reverse engineering process. Is Richard aware of this? I have to download the book. I know it just came out.

I know about Ross. I've had some communications with him behind the scenes. I knew about the work he's doing to a limited extent, not to any kind of detail. I was not privy to most of his research. I heard about it a little bit from one intermediary who knew quite a lot about what was going on. I can't comment on the deathbed confession. I do know this. I mean, Ross is a very smart and good journalist. So I'm looking forward to reading his book. Very much so. This question I've asked to both Jeremy Corbell and Luis Elizondo. It's from Lonesome Space Cowboy. The username is from Reddit. He wants to know if the world could see what you have seen i'm sure some of what you've seen you can't talk about so if the world saw it how would

the world react what would the next week look like i don't know you know i've been surprised by the, like we've had a series of, shall we say, revelations in the last several years. You know, we have an admission by the United States Navy that they encounter UFOs, for God's sake. And no one's done a thing. No reaction. I would have thought, you know, I wrote a book 10 years ago that dealt with these issues 12 years ago. What would happen if there was a government admission that UFOs are real? I thought, well, it could cause an avalanche effect. And that has not yet happened.

Now, what we're having is kind of a drip, drip, drip of information. So is it because it's like the frog being boiled or it's our apathy? A lot of it's through much, much greater propaganda control over our media. I mean, back then, you know, the legacy media was totally controlled. Yes. But big tech had not yet assumed full control over Facebook and YouTube and Twitter and all that. Those are still areas where there was genuine freedom. And that's not the case anymore.

You try to type in UFO on YouTube and you will get nothing but corporate CNN, BBC, Fox, CNN, MSNBC. Like it's, come on. And sometimes it's like low view counts. They're obviously, they cheat on the algorithm and everything is corporate. So it's becoming more and more difficult um and all right but anyway like if the world somehow magically knew everything that i know

yeah i think i think the ufo cover-up would there would there would be a lot of angry people i guess i would put it that way there'd be a lot of people who actually would demand from their government for an investigation into UFOs. The problem that they would run into, because this is also what I know now, is that I don't think that there's a single central government repository where the UFO secret's being held. I think it's outside the purview of the US government. I think all the US government does is surprise security detail for the secret on behalf of corporate and financial power that actually has the information. and who those guys are i don't all i can do is guess but i think some of them probably go to davos every now and then they may go to bilderberg meetings like that crowd yes i think some of those people probably are some of those individuals and that all that the u.s military now does is basically serve as their security force they They prevent outsiders from getting in. They prevent taxpayers from learning about the program. They even prevent not just Congress. Congress has no access to this, but they prevent senior DOD officials from having access. Access to those programs is limited to,

I don't know if any one person in the Department of Defense actually has access to some of these programs. Officially speaking, the people organizing SAPOC, Special Operations – Special Access Program Oversight Committee, I think officially it's like three or four people who theoretically have access to those files. But that doesn't mean that they get into those files. It doesn't mean that they get into those files. It doesn't mean that they get into the programs. It just means that they, in theory, have oversight access. Nobody else, to my knowledge. If the president demanded, I mean, could the president... I don't know. I mean, all we have are stories about that.

I have one story about Bill Clinton from the late 90s. A scientist that I know actually met with Clinton, had him for five minutes at an event. He said, I waited for my moment. They had a couple of things in common, they talked about, and this guy, he led into UFOs by thanking him for liberalizing the freedom of information laws

to some extent that at that time made it a little bit easier for people to do FOIA requests. And then he somehow gently brought up the UFO question to Clinton. And according to this man, who I believe, Clinton said something to the effect of, yeah, I'm sorry, there's not much I can do about that. I wish I could do more about that, but my hands are tied.

And that's all Clinton said, apparently. So that – and you need to think about it. Like how much can a U.S. president actually even do, really? I mean does anyone think that U.S. presidents are really actually – they're selected. They're not elected. It's been the way for generations. You've got a very, very tightly controlled system there and i i just don't even donald trump who seems to be an anomaly trump is a definite anomaly absolutely trump is as much of an anomaly

um maybe even more of an anomaly than kennedy was Kennedy, I would say, before Trump was the last president who actually thought he was president. That's why they killed him. Kennedy actually thought, I'm going to decapitate the CIA, which he tried to do. I'm going to print non-federal reserve money, $4 billion, which, I mean, even in 1963, it was not going to make or break, but it was the beginning. And, you know, apparently in October of 1963, talked privately about pulling

U.S. out of Vietnam after he got reelected. Another bad move, Kennedy. And also, yes, according to a November 11th memo from 1963, 11 days before he was killed, talked about authorizing or ordering the CIA to cooperate more with the Soviet Union on the matter of UFOs. It's like good grief. This guy, he was like murdered in an Agatha Christie murder mystery. It's like where everyone's got a motive. Like there's so many reasons. Right. The cabal. You know, plus he's got a motive. Like there's so many reasons that the cabal,

you know, plus he's trying to take out the mafia. How dare he? He got elected by the mafia. Man, that takes such courage. You know, they brought out the cemetery vote for Kennedy. He should not have won Illinois.

Whatever you think about Nixon and Kennedy, Kennedy should have lost Illinois. He should have lost the election, but he won because he had the mob. So Kennedy goes in there and he starts pissing off everyone and they take him out. So then for another, how many, 40, almost 50 years, right? Every subsequent American president knows you don't screw with these people. They will take you down. Absolutely. Then comes Trump. Out of nowhere, you got a Republican campaigning in South Carolina in 2016, dishing out against the war in Iraq. No Republican ever did that. How dare he? And he did it. Republican doing Ralph Nader's old gig in the 90s,

talking against globalization. That's something that the liberals used to do. Ralph Nader, remember Nader in the late 90s, like we're going to lose jobs through these trade deals with China. Nader said this on behalf of working class people and the Democratic Party kicked him out, basically. They didn't want nothing to do with him, but he was doing it from the left.

And then that whole thing failed. And then 20 years later, a guy does it from the right. Like people were shocked. And then he gets elected. I remember a week before that election, Julian Assange from his exile said, Trump won't be allowed to be elected. And I think everyone thought that. I think everyone believed that. I mean, obviously the establishment fix was in for Hillary. That was obvious to anyone with half a brain. Right. I mean, never in the history of American media had you seen an onslaught against one person that intent like you are free not to like the guy. He's a trash talker. He's a New York as a New Yorker. I grew up with everyone. I grew up with talk like that. The men and the women, the boys and the girls, they all talk like that so that didn't the the language never offended me i mean it's maybe unpresidential but that's his style

what i found interesting about him was his geopolitics and his global politics i mean what the reason trump had to be taken out frank honestly there's only one it's not because he was a bad person not because he's racist not sexist none of that ridiculous nonsense. He got taken out because he dared to oppose the two pillars of American global policy. Which are? Which you must never do. And that is international, that's empire, neoconservative empire, the neocon thing, and globalization.

You cannot oppose that. Are you kidding me? And he went out as a candidate and opposed both of them. You know, I think it was Chuck Schumer right after Trump got elected. He's on with Amy Goodman of Democracy Now. Right. And Schumer, he's talking about Trump and the CIA. And he says, oh, my God, don't take on the CIA. They'll find six ways till Sunday to take you down. He says, oh, my God, don't take on the CIA. They'll find six ways till Sunday to take you down.

And of course, Amy Goodman, by this point, I mean, she did not ask a single follow up question. But like, obviously, Trump had the entire intelligence establishment after him. He went against, he cannot talk against the wars. Now, he ended up being surrounded by a lot of the same people that would have surrounded Hillary, the same bloodthirsty neocons. So his international policy wasn't much different than what you would have gotten with any of the others. He was a little less belligerent in the Middle East. That's for sure. Hillary Clinton would have started a major war in Syria, and she actually talked about it. So she was going to escalate all that. And Trump didn't do that. So that's to his credit, I have to say. But otherwise, he was pretty bellicose. But he did stick to his guns on globalization and, you know, protect the borders and all that. So that's just unacceptable. You cannot do that. So was he allowed in on the UFO secret?

I think that's what you're asking. And I mean, I don't know. I think it's obvious that the guy was interested in it. You know, in the last year of his presidency, he made a number of statements. Don Jr. talking to him in, I think, June of 2020 about this, asking his dad about Roswell. You know, Trump is a guy who was very friendly to alternative media in the years prior to his candidacy. So he's a nephew of an FBI agent who raided Tesla's home after Tesla died in 1943.

I got to think Trump knew, knows, some things that are very interesting. Whether he was able to get a formal briefing on this, that's a great question. I wish I knew the answer and I just do not. Don't know. I don't want to start you on conspiracies, but what occurs to me right now is I want to know your thoughts, if you can briefly, on COVID. Is COVID related to alien phenomenon in some way, whether through vaccinations or through the spreading of the disease. Okay, then also, look, I don't I don't want to get I've heard everything and I've heard them from people much smarter than me.

And I've heard all different opinions from people who are much smarter than me. And I just don't know what I think want to think about that right now. I will say that the response to COVID has been criminal and draconian and anti-human. And I personally do not believe in the lockdowns. I've never believed in the lockdowns. I don't believe in destroying your society by economic suicide, by running, you know,

50% of the businesses in America that have closed and probably never going to reopen. And I think the psychological damage to especially to young people with the masking and the distancing, I think is criminal. And I think the day will come, maybe one day when we get some sanity back in our world, when we look back at the criminality against people in this world by treating them the way we've treated them and i think that the response to covid has has sped up our descent into what i've often been calling the fourth stage of humanity which i wrote about in my last book the alien agendas and simply speaking i think what we're moving into is a new fundamental form of human organization in which, you know, you look at all the technology we've got.

So you've got coming AI, you know, singularity, if that's even the word we want to use for it. Sometimes that's not the best word. But anyway, very advanced, strong AI, generative AI that can think for itself. Genetic modification, CRISPR technology, you know know all of that designer babies 5g 6g 24 7 surveillance through smart devices that will give you zero privacy and you'll have none for the rest of all time and your grandchildren won't have any so we're going to turn humanity into big giant anthill that's really what i think is happening i really believe that like you know think of china's social credit system and with all, you know, if you jaywalk there, that dings you on your ability sometimes to get a loan, much less if you speak out against the government and they facial wreck everyone and they probably voice wreck everyone there.

So we're probably a decade behind, realistically. We're already partially there, like through big tech. We don't have formal implementation yet of a social criticism but it's that's coming that's coming so maybe 10 years down the road but anyway so we're doing all this in covid there was the lockdown response to covid the draconian legal measures that have been taken against people for this are criminally anti-human and they are accelerating this is my opinion i'm sure people are out there saying f you do what i'm saying but this is my opinion, and I believe that it's a criminally anti-human, global, coordinated effort to break this society in the form that it has been and to create a new society. Yeah, that's what I think. That's what I believe. So whether it's by design as a plandemic or not, you know, my opinion has always been that it probably escaped from the Wuhan lab.

I thought that right out of the gate. And for over a year, of course, that was almost it was almost illegal even to say that publicly. You say that publicly, they take you down. And then Jon Stewart says it on Colbert and suddenly like it's OK to say it now. But the fact is that, that yes it always seemed logical how could it not be logical they're working on the exact virus right there they're patents on coronavirus like it's not an unknown thing but anyway um whether it was intentionally released or not i i don't i don't know and i can't know it could have accidentally gotten out sure accidents do happen hey elvis costello told us that many years ago. All right, bad joke.

But anyway, I think it could have happened and accidentally, it could have been an accident leak. Could have been an intentional leak. I don't know. But I think it probably came out of a lab. Okay, last question. And then while you're answering, I'm going to quickly turn off my video and audio

so my wife can go in the background and leave and then I'll turn it right back on. She's just been waiting there for quite some time. Very patient. You obviously have a wonderful wife. Yeah, I do. Okay, Victor Wag asks, suppose you had access to technology that could put 35 million truck drivers out of work virtually overnight. Do you release the tech or slow drip the tech while keeping an eye on the environment? Wow, what an awesome question because that's actually going to happen. Truck driving is the biggest, especially for non-university educated people.

Driving, I think, is the largest occupation. Definitely for men, but there's a lot of women out there too now who are drivers. And with, you know, Google algorithms and like self-driving cars, I think that tech exists. I mean, I know that there are imperfections in it. And I could also, like, for right now, you try driving an 18-wheeler. I mean, I don't drive an 18-wheeler and I don't pretend. I think, didn't Joe Biden say he drove an 18-wheeler? Is that true? But anyway, I've

driven some large vehicles, like a big U-Haul, on highways in bad weather, on twisty roads and i'll tell you man that's like that's crazy i cannot imagine an algorithm yet maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm underestimating the algos but it's a tricky thing to entrust them with that yet however i do think it's going to be possible to develop those algorithms and implement them. And if it were my power to do so, oh my god, I would go as slow as I possibly could go. That's me. Maybe that – that might be the wrong decision militarily or in terms of economics, but it's like the race for 5G. I'm not a fan of it.

I don't want to see 5G in this world. I'm not a fan. I think we're at a point now in a society where we're serving the technology rather than the reverse. We're organizing our society around the technology rather than using tech to improve our society and our lives that's what i think is happening and that's why i um so when you have um you know the development of 5g like this is a race this is an arms race has military implications significant military implications so the u.s and china and russia and the european the European nations, they have to develop this as soon as possible from a purely military communications point of view. They've got to develop 5G.

And also, pardon me, excuse me, from an economic point of view, there are major economic implications to this that could be very beneficial to you if you develop the tech problem is uh well the problem is what what happens to society when you have 5g capabilities and it's not just uh you're going to be in your phone but it'll be in your lamp and it'll be in your toilet and it'll be in your refrigerator and it'll be in your toaster like it'll be in your refrigerator, and it'll be in your toaster. It'll be in everything. It'll be in your ceiling fan. That's happening. And what will that do to human society? What will that do to human psychology? Bad things, very bad things.

That's what it's going to do. So we're going to pay a big price, a bad price, for the rollout of this tech. Very bad price. But how do you stop it? How do you slow it down? I mean, look, I'm going to tell you, I don't know how to slow it down.

I don't have that answer. And it's the same with what the question was. Driving algorithms or driving capabilities that can replace 35 million truck drivers. I thought, is that the number? I thought it was even more than that, but whatever. Economists call this the robo-apocalypse. That's Terminator coming, not to kill you, just to take your job. That's the world we're moving toward.

These are mainstream economists. This is not fringe stuff here. This is what they standard university economists they all seem to believe it's coming and um not just with manual labor anymore but increasingly intellectual labor what's going to happen in a world where you've got a structural unemployment that may be 30% of the human population or more. What do you do with these people? Well, I think one thing you do is you make drugs fully legal and available or illegal drugs available.

So they're whacked out on drugs. You let them get nice and obese. They sit in front of their screen and they can't do anything. And you feed them with toxic garbage food and you give them garbage news and propaganda to beat over their head with. And you immerse them in a, you know, virtual reality and augmented reality, gaming, you know, give them something to do so that they're not going to be a problem. The restless mob, that's what you want to avoid. Maybe you try to do depopulation if that's feasible. I don't know

how feasible that is. But you control the population more and more through active psychological measures. And then soon they're going to have AI, of course, in Facebook and social media that will be able to really manage your psychology even better than now. The capabilities for this are just, it terrifies me to even think about where we're going with all that, honestly. And I wish I had better answers for how to deal with it. The only thing I can say to people is, look, we have to, at all costs, we must maintain that which makes us human. us, we must maintain that which makes us human. That means all of our warts and all, all the awful things about us and all the good things about us. Don't desire to be a transhuman freaking perfect robot like people like Kurzweil talk about. I think that's just

anti-human, dangerous, horrible, terrible vision for humanity. Maybe it's inevitable. What are some of these human qualities we should preserve? Emotion, anger, compassion, love, all of it. All the things that make us what we are. Curiosity, bravery, bravery for sure. We're developing a society that's moving us against all of it look how we're raising kids these days kids aren't even allowed to play they're not allowed to play when i was a kid growing up in the olden times prehistoric days of the 1970s i was probably

outside on my bike miles from home at age 10 or 9 doing all kinds of crazy things getting into fights, getting out of fights, playing, playing pickup football games with guys. I didn't know who half these guys were miles from my house, dealing with people that you learn like they don't, Oh, that guy doesn't like me. Well, that's what you learn when you're growing up. Like that's what you learn. And that's how you, that's how you become strong psychologically.

We don't do that to kids anymore. Everyone set up for play dates and kept in the house. Kids don't have free time anymore and they don't have it in school either. I remember having recess in my school, 45 minutes every day, outside when the weather was good, which was many days,

fields so large, no adult could monitor all of that. Are you kidding? Fights galore, bad language everywhere. But cooperation as well, stories, kids just dealing with kids. So that's, we need a psychologically healthy upbringing for young people.

That's number one. And that's the opposite of what we're doing. Opposite. Safety first and everything in our society must be safe. Let's just bubble wrap the whole population well that's what we're doing i think so i think it's a real tragedy i think it's a real tragedy and so we need to maintain humanity that's our humanity and for the people who want to be like kurzweil's frankensteinian fantasy like you're gonna

have an iq of 200 or 300 300 and you'll live for 500 years. You know, the nanobots will course through your blood and keep you alive forever. Like, who the hell wants to do that? That's a great way to lose your mind. Do you honestly think that a person could live for 300 years and not become insane? Seriously think about that. I bet it's impossible. I bet you'd lose your sanity at a certain point.

I just think so. Or other bad things would happen psychologically, and I don't want to consider. I just think we're not designed for that. I think we're designed to live, grow, fight the good fight, however we do. You learn what you learn. You reproduce.

You have a new generation, and you die. That, however we do. You learn what you learn, you reproduce, you have a new generation and you die. That's what we do. That's what the human condition is. What do the ancient philosophers always say? We're between the angels and the beasts, right? You know, we have consciousness that the beasts of the field don't have, but are we the angels?

Well, no. And every wise person of the past you read greek greek tragedy escalus one of my faves what do they all talk about hubris that certain pride that human beings have when they put themselves at the level of the gods. And what do the gods do when you get that? They smack you down, man. There's a wisdom there. We're not at the level of the gods. And it's not our place. But you got these crazy people.

There's a 1960s futurist named Gerald Feinberg. He wrote a book about, it was basically the prototype for what Kurzweil and the rest are onto. All about transhumanist future. No one's satisfied with being a human being you know we want to be like the aliens we want to we want to transcend we want to be like in a ramp up to 2012 i remember people talking about ascension like what do you don't like being just a death a death wish. That's a death wish. Like die and go to heaven.

Well, what about just like living here and struggling and developing? You develop wisdom through suffering. You suffer into the truth. That's what Aeschylus wrote. You suffer into the truth. That's what we do. There's no shortcut. There's no shortcut into that.

So be a human being. Don't deny it. Embrace it. Love it. You can love it and hate it at the same time. We're a mass of contradictions. So that's what I mean by preserving our humanity and preserving family structures that make us what we are, preserving loving relationships which make our lives worth living. without the connection to your family, the people who are the most important. And yet we destroy our families all the time. Families just get blown up every day, every year.

People move, they move around the world. They don't, no, I just don't, I don't think that's right. I think there's something unhealthy about it. So we transform our world in this last 150 years, basically, in a way that is, anti-human and we're paying a price psychologically more and more richard thank you so much yeah thank you this is fun sort of i don't mean to get into a dark place there, but look, this is just what I think sometimes. But I wouldn't change it for the world. I wouldn't change the difficulties we have for anything.

I feel like this is our adventure. So let's ride it. Let's embrace it. Let's learn everything we can from it. And, you know, you just struggle and you be the best you can be. There's nothing else you can do. Speaking of the best, who are some of the most credible people in this UFO scene? Either people who are eyewitnesses or researchers themselves? This question comes from Paul Walsh. And essentially, I want to know the same, but with regard to physics.

Well, I'm glad you talked with Eric Davis because I mean, I'm not a physicist and I'm not qualified to comment, but I mean, I listened to Davis and I think this man's, I don't know about being a genius, but he's super brilliant and he knows things. Davis has been briefed into things.

He knows a lot. So anything you can pry out of him is worth prying out. Same with Hal Puttoff. Hal talks much less than Davis. But in terms of research, well, people in the field, Travis Walton, who came up, I think, earlier in the conversation. I have nothing but admiration for Travis. Great. I'm speaking with him next week. I've known him many years. I drove across the state of Pennsylvania with him once. It was a six-hour-plus drive. But I've hung out with Travis on many, many, many, many occasions.

And I only have the best regard for him personally. And there's no doubt in my mind that he's a completely truthful man. None. None at all. In terms of researchers, you always want to hear what Linda Moulton Howe has to say, whether you agree with her or not. Linda to me is a lion. I adore her and I respect her. I haven't always agreed with everything that has come out of her research, but you know what? Like I don't, I don't have to agree with someone 100% of the time to find them worthwhile.

I don't do that. So if someone's wrong about something once in a while, well, then they're wrong. But I have a very high regard for Linda. I'm a fan of Nick Redfern. People don't know Nick as well as they should. Nick's a very prolific author. What's his last name? Redfern. R-E-D-F-E-R-N. Nick's people don't know Nick as well as they should Nick's a very prolific author I respect Nick

what's his last name Redfern R-E-D-F-E-R-N he's a Brit who's moved to the U.S. Nick's written a lot of books I have disagreed with some of his theses

over the years but overall I have mad respect for his integrity as a researcher I really like him who else there's a lot of researchers mad respect for his integrity as a researcher. I really like him. Who else?

There's a lot of researchers who will have good things to say. I'm interested in Ross Colhart, so I'm glad someone mentioned Ross. I don't know if he's a genuine UFO researcher or just a damn good journalist who got into the UFO field, however you look at it, but he's worth listening to. How do I identify misinformation in this field or how does one identify so this can this dr kick-ass 77 wants to know this i want to know it personally when i wrote uh ufos for the 21st century mind that was 2013 2014 i think um i had one section on the development of ufology and i spent back then a few pages on things that you could do as an armchair researcher i think overall

they're still valuable um back then reverse image searches were a kind of a new thing and i've talked i wrote about i was like look there's ways that you can do your own research i talked about that reverse it was like sometimes someone has a photograph for example that's an alleged this or that or whatever like search it find out what you want to do with any story is look for the origin. Where is the first instance of this claim originating ever? Like you want to do that all the time. And sometimes that's easy and sometimes it's difficult. Sometimes you can figure that out in 10 minutes of searching. Sometimes it might take weeks or you never even get the answer, but you try. You've got to always find out where did this thing start? But you try. You've got to always find out where did this thing start? You have to do that. So any claim.

And then, you know, just basic rules like you want to you follow certain protocols. So when someone makes a claim, a statement. Depends on the information you ask yourself, can this is is has this information been thoroughly debunked anywhere you start with that and then when if it has been allegedly debunked you got to check the debunker like are they really legit or are they just playing their own little game like for example when when uh t Elizondo and Mellon, facilitated the release of those three UFO videos at the end of 2017, early 2018. So you have the Tic Tac video, you get the Go Fast video, and the Gimbal UFO video. Those are three that came out. So there was a whole discussion over a Metabunk run by Mick West.

And they were debunking these. They were saying this is a hoax. Like, the video's real, but the audio's hoaxed. And I'm like, no, that actually turned out to be complete nonsense. So just because Metabunk may have their own opinion doesn't mean even they're legit or true.

They can have their own agendas. So, but what you do is you, when any information comes out, you ask ask yourself what is the origin how can this be corroborated or not if there's no way to corroborate it whatsoever then you got to be careful like then don't throw all of your energy into it you know be careful qualify what you know there's a lot of gray baskets, as Stan Friedman said. There's a lot of stuff in that gray basket. And you better be, you got to learn to be comfortable with uncertainty in this field. That's the name of a great Zen book. It's one of my favorite books on that subject, on Zen. But it's a good rule for life. You better be comfortable with uncertainty. Better be comfortable with uncertainty.

And so know what you know. Know what you can prove. Construct your architecture around what you can. Be Cartesian. Know what you know. Construct a solid edifice around what is known. And around things that you don't know. Well, then you, you do your best and you make qualified assessments to the best of your

ability. That's it. I say, that's it. Like that's easy, but it's not easy, but that's, that's all that I know how to do. There's a snarky comment here from E. Alistair Stan who says, Interesting interview, but I don't buy any of these UFO stories. How is it that many people manage to clearly video Chalas Binsk meteor, some meteor, a once in a 100-year event, but somehow no one manages to get a clear photo or video of UFOs? Occam's Razor says, dot, dot, dot. So how do you respond to a comment like that?

Well, I mean, look, I don't have the time to walk him through kindergarten-level ufology. It's clear that he hasn't gone through it. It's obvious from the comment. So study the military declassified documents first before you embarrass yourself with snarky comments.

Honestly. Don't walk into a subject that you know nothing about and act like you actually know everything. Like, why do that? So have enough humility to recognize that you don't know all the evidence because otherwise you wouldn't say what you did. To me, you know, as I said to you earlier,

the evidence doesn't suggest or hint. The evidence proves one thing, that the United States military has encountered genuine UFOs. And I say this through an analysis of declassified United States military documents. It's not just five or 10, there's hundreds of them. They're good documents. They're real documents. It doesn't prove that these are alien. It proves that there's something,

there's trouble in paradise. So let's just look at that and puzzle it out and ask ourselves, what could these things be? Could they be misidentifications? Well, yeah, maybe they could be, but let's look into it. I've tried to look into it and I don't think that's the answer. Not at least for all of them. No, not at all. Not even for most of those good documents, I don't think. One person asked earlier like some good documented cases there's one it's called the rb 47 case from 1957 there's another military case so this is um so you have an i've been an awax aircraft this is a military aircraft it's like electronic countermeasures electronic so they're doing a mission across the southeastern united. I can't remember exactly what states. I think Alabama, Oklahoma.

And they encounter for, I think it is 29 minutes with their instrumentation, an incredible series of encounters with an object that just, I think, literally flew circles around their aircraft. It really happened. It's a real case. And it came through military conversations. I can't remember how that one actually came out,

but no one's argued that it happened. So I would say, I didn't mean to sound mean until the individual made the comment. Look, I apologize if I came across as ungenerous to you. But the thing is, I have found over and over again that when I encounter people with scientific background, brilliant people who know their disciplines extremely well, they walk into UFOs as if they know what they are talking about. And the reality is they vastly underestimate the depth and breadth of the evidence that the UFO phenomenon provides. That's the

ultimate thing that I think is missing. Cool. Thank you, Richard. I appreciate that. thing that i think is missing cool thank you richard i appreciate that happy to do it yeah i think i was a little mean in my response so i'm sorry if i was no that's well essentially what the person is getting at at least what i'm interpreting the person to be getting at is there's clear photos of various phenomenon but when it comes to the UFO, at least even for me... There actually are some decent photographs. There's some photographs that are not bad that have not, in my opinion, really been debunked. I would even go back to the 1950 McMinnville, Oregon photographs taken by Paul Trent. They made the cover of, what was it, Life or True magazine at the time.

There was a case made in the late 70s that these were fakes. I don't think so at all. When you look into the backstory of that, I don't think so, not in the least. Those are real. Whatever they were, it looks like a flying saucer flew over their property and flew away. But there's many, many others. There is one from the same year in rouen france of a similar object it's not the greatest photographed i admit the greatest photograph but i i think it's legit

uh there's one i found from there's a lot of these that happen without the photographer realizing there's one from 1981 in uh i think on on Vancouver Island, taken by a lady named Hannah McRoberts. And she was on vacation with her family. She takes a picture of a mountain. Pardon me. And they developed, this is in the days of photographic negatives. You're Googling the picture. Go take a look at it.

It's an interesting shot. So it's from 1981? 1981 1981 i think it was october 1981 hannah mcroberts and this photograph and the negative were available for analysis remember this is pre-digital photography uh dr richard haynes of uh jpl of the hame of the ames laboratory associated with jpl uh undertook a very thorough photographic analysis of this, did detailed interviews of the family as well. I think that photograph checks out hell of a picture. What is that object there? So no, it's not true to say that there are no decent UFO pictures. There's a few good ones, but it's very difficult. It's not easy to take a good UFO picture. Like I remember even, I live in Rochester, New York,

not far from the Rochester airport. I remember being at a park right by the airport, knowing that the airplanes come in every so often. I had a camera, a digital camera, and I thought, I'm going to try to take a picture of the aircraft coming in as it landed. And I screwed up every single time. I mean, it's not that it's impossible to do, but it's not as easy, I think, as we think. And plus, digital photography is still not all that great.

Honestly, with an object distant in the sky, how good is it going to be, really? You need commercial-grade equipment for a lot of these things to get them the way you want. I don't want to make excuses for why are there not any great photographs uh the ones that are really that look great initially often turn out to be hoaxes that's true a lot of them have but i don't think they're all hoaxes i don't i just don't believe that what about bodies are there pictures of bodies that or of the ufo or the alien exist living that you find legitimate? None that I would I would bet the mortgage on, no. But what I will say is I'm a very big fan and follower of the research of the late Leonard Stringfield. I never got to meet Leonard Stringfield. He died in I think it was 94. I never got to meet Len Stringfield he died in I think it was 94

and he lived near US Air Force headquarters near Dayton, Ohio not far from there I think he's in Cincinnati and he was an ex-military guy himself had seen a Foo Fighter during World War II over the Pacific and became a UFO researcher

but in the late 70s Stringfield started getting reports of either crash UFOs or alien bodies. Story after story after story. He started like looking for them. And they came to him in all these different circuitous routes. And he collected them. And you could drop 80 bucks on Amazon if you want right now and pick up Stringfield's 400 page,

eight and a half by 11 collection of his, of all this research on that. It's worth, it's actually fascinating. It's fascinating. But what he did is he collected accounts from military witnesses about, you know, one guy will say,

well, I did a security detail at right pad in 1960, whenever, and I saw nine alien bodies, three to four feet tall with big, big heads, you know, that type of thing lying on slabs or variations of those types of stories, quite a few. And it's fascinating. And I just think it's a little too much smoke for there not to be fire i mean if i'm judging it by the standards of rigorous science it has to i have to say it flunks

fails i mean can't get access to the body it's true i can't prove it but is that actually the ultimate criterion i want to use? Or maybe I want to use one of a counterintelligence officer instead, an investigator. Sometimes you don't always have access to the information. What if it actually is classified? What if there is a black budget world that manages this information really, really well, which I think is the case in which open and above board science is just not going to have an opportunity to study this stuff.

What if that's the case? I think it is. So then you have to use other means of ferreting out the information to the best of your imperfect abilities. That's our world. You're extremely collected, moderated, eloquent. Thank you, man. Oh, it was a pleasure. Thank you, man. It was a pleasure. Thank you, Kurt. And thanks to your listeners. People ask really good questions.

There's over 1,000 people watching. Fabulous. Wow. Great. Well, hi, everybody. Thanks for hanging out. Yes, thank you. And I'll email you a couple questions as well as with a link to the final once it finally comes out.

Yeah, fabulous. I'll be very happy about that. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure. Man, take care. Thank you very much. Bye, everybody. Okay.

Thank you, everyone. I appreciate you watching. I appreciate you watching. If you have any questions for me or suggestions or comments, I'll be sticking around for approximately two and a half minutes reading through these. Thank you. Thank you for people who are giving me thanks. It's great to see someone from South Korea watching. I didn't get a chance to get to everyone's questions.

It's actually difficult to be in the moment with the guest. So in this case, Richard. As well as to read the chat. I don't like to do so. And then often... Oh. Richard is still in the waiting room. Okay, I'm going to go because perhaps Richard would like to talk to me. Take care.