Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal - The Best of Lue Elizondo | UFOs, Human History, Altered DNA

Episode Date: December 22, 2023

The most astounding UFO revelations from Lue Elizondo. - Luis Elizondo for 2020 w/ Curt: https://youtu.be/aAmFlLfsZKM- Luis Elizondo for 2021 w/ Curt: https://youtu.be/wULw64ZL1Bg- Luis Elizondo for 2022 w/ Curt: https://youtu.be/9g5e9UzEDkw TIMESTAMPS:00:00 - Intro01:43 - Philosophy03:07 - Lue's Worldview07:59 - Forbidden Truths13:46 - History21:55 - DNA30:09 - Time Explained37:02 - Alien Abduction39:57 - CE542:04 - Skinwalker Ranch49:38 - Demons54:44 - Psychedelics56:53 - Reason For Secrecy1:02:21 - Somber1:06:15 - Somber (Continued)1:16:14 - Family1:18:31 - Paradigm Shift1:22:02 - Lue's Advice1:22:37 - Meaning of Life1:30:50 - OutroNOTE: The perspectives expressed by guests don't necessarily mirror my own. There's a versicolored arrangement of people on TOE, each harboring distinct viewpoints, as part of my endeavor to understand the perspectives that exist. THANK YOU: To Mike Duffy for your insight, help, and recommendations on this channel.Follow TOE on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theoriesofe...Support TOE: - Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal (early access to ad-free audio episodes!) - Crypto: https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOEJoin this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdWI... 

Imagine everything you've been taught, whether it's through Sunday school or what our political leaders have told us turned out to be not entirely accurate. The meaning, what it means to be a human being and our place in this universe. How much of our own history do we really know? We can go back 5,000 years pretty easily. 8,000 years, things start to get a little murky. Anything much beyond that, we really have no clue about about there is documentation of these strange things in the sky going back a long long time i don't think we're dealing with a new phenomenon i think we may be dealing with a new recognition and perhaps hopefully at some point a new understanding i think we've been faced with this phenomenon for quite some time

lou elizondo has been on the theories of podcast three times, each of which has a link in the description. Almost every one of those appearances tends to be one of the highest rated videos of all of the Lou Elizondo appearances on different podcasts and different platforms during that period. What you're about to see are the most viewed juicy clips from those sessions in one compilation. If you'd like to watch any of these in full, the links are in the description as well as the pinned comment. This compilation is in preparation for a behemoth interview with Lu in person, so if you have a question for him, leave it below. Think of this whole anthology as an early Christmas gift. My name is Kurt J. Mungle, and this podcast is Theories of Everything, where we explore the topics of physics, mathematics, free will, consciousness, and AI, even God, primarily from an analytic, technical, academic perspective.

But as well as starting two years ago, I've embraced a more experiential approach and interview some guests along that framework. Subscribe if this sounds interesting to you. And either way, enjoy this Best of Lou Elizondo episode. If you could start over and pursue a different educational path with the hopes of understanding UAPs more fully, what degree would you choose? I would probably start with philosophy. And why is that? Because philosophy is one of the few areas that teaches you how to think and not what to think, right? In the topic of UAPs, it's not a matter of what, it's how. How do we process the data? How does this apply to our species, where we're going, where we're from, et cetera? There's very few academic pursuits that teach somebody how to think. Most people, and I can tell you this from personal experience with my children, most schools teach kids what to think. And that's a problem because we've forgotten what real teaching is about. I can instruct

somebody on how to do something, but real teaching is something different. A lot of the the Eastern philosophies understood that. It it's it's it's not teaching somebody the the specifics it's teaching somebody how to how to find the data themselves um and i think i would probably start with that maybe do some reading um on people who who who look at things maybe a little bit differently right and are prescribing you what to think, but more importantly, again, how to think. Would you consider yourself to be an idealist or a materialist? And if you are unsure what those words mean, let me know what they are.

Is there an option C? Which would be what, mix? Can it be both or neither? That's something I've been been wondering is there a duality between those two there's plenty of dualities in math and physics where you think it's the option between two but turns out that they're equivalent ways of describing the system yeah exactly i'm not sure it's uh either or i'm not sure they're mutually exclusive i think you know i i my background was science um you know, in science, I found my solace, which I enjoyed.

You know, I grew up kind of a, kind of a angry young kid, had some, some tough times as a kid. But, but science to me was, it was unwavering. She was always there for me. She never lied to me. And so i get lost in science and um you know i i i do believe in the scientific method um it works it's only it's i mean it's a perfect no but it's the best thing that we got right now that we know uh to test and apply theories um but at the same time you know there's something more you said

about human consciousness you know can't prove it there's no no mathematical formula no physical evidence to prove consciousness and yet here we are having a conversation so um i think i don't think i don't think the two are mutually i don't consider myself a materialist or an idealist um like i said it's you know i it wouldn't make fun of the fact that I, you know, I said, I love humanity. It's humans I don't like, right? How is that possible, right? Because humanity is a collective of all the humans and yet, but probably a little bit of both. Probably a little bit.

I think there's an indelible aspect to the human being that transcends physicality. We have a body, obviously, and we have a brain. And our brain is inextricably tied for metabolic processes to survive to the body. The heart has to pump blood to get blood to the brain, otherwise the brain dies. And in the same respect, the brain is regulating all the autonomic processes for the body. So, you know, breathing, which is automatic, thank God for most of us anyways, and heartbeat and temperature and whatnot. So, the brain is a biological organ that is inextricably tied to the overall vehicle, which is the body, and that's organic as well. But there's probably something more to the human being. There's probably something more that is not necessarily physical because a computer has a processor, a computer has a body, right? The laptop I'm talking to you on right now,

and it's got a processor that's thinking, if you will, for the computer, but it's not a conscious living being. It's not a sentient being. So the question is, what is that's thinking, if you will, for the computer, but it's not a conscious living being. It's not a sentient being. So the question is, what is that extra component, that extra ingredient that makes us human, that makes us living, breathing, not only animal, but truly human, what separates us from everything else on this planet? And there's that third ingredient can be described potentially in cultures as the soul or the id or the chi, you know, put your nom de jour you want on there. But I think a lot of people agree that there's something different.

Case in point, the notion of love. You can't really describe it. It's hard to describe. You can't see it. You can't touch it and taste it. But it's there and it motivates a lot of people's actions. In fact, love to some degree actually works against individual survival. And yet a mother's instinct to throw herself in front of a train to save her child is almost reflexive. There's something there that recognizes the value of human life, human dignity.

There's something there that recognizes the value of human life, human dignity. I could be in a car accident and lose use of my arms and my legs, but I'm still Lou Elizondo. I could suffer a traumatic brain injury and have a severe TBI and be mentally impaired, but I'm still Lou Elizondo. What makes Lou Elizondo Lou is something a little bit different, something that you can't really put your finger on. And so back to this duality, materialist versus idealist, I'm probably a little bit of both because I believe in science, but I also know that there's limitations to science and there's limitations to human beings, and there's limitations to you and me and everybody else. And that's okay. And that there's aspects to being human that are probably potentially more human than human, to use an old cliche. Is there another reason outside of national security that they don't want you to disclose what you may disclose or they're worried you may.

Yeah, I mean. What is their worry outside of them? There have been forbidden truths, we can call them, if you will. There have been forbidden truths in the history of not just our country, but many countries. Truths that could upset a balance, a balance that's been around for a long time. Let me give you case in point. program in the past, but because certain things happened, presidents were no longer briefed, people in Congress were no longer briefed who should have been, and now they're running an operation that's considered rogue, but it's still an important mission. It turns out all of a sudden now, let's say hypothetically, the cat's out of the bag. What's going to happen to those people when the government realizes they were running operations, for better or for worse, without any oversight, without any legal oversight? Who's going to be held accountable for that? The fact that they did not brief legally like they were supposed to. legally like they were supposed to. Certain members of Congress and committees and oversight committees and the chain of command, that's potentially criminal action. I've said this

before. Let's say you have two competing companies. You have aerospace company A and aerospace company B. And aerospace company A, for whatever reason, gets a favor and some sort of really exotic game-changing material is provided to that company to do this analysis. Meanwhile, company B, who is competing fairly, doesn't get that material. Turns out company A now starts getting a lot of contracts, defense contracts, and becomes a multi-billion dollar company. While company B, who never had the advantage of having that material, goes into bankruptcy. Hundreds of people lose their jobs and stockholders lose their investment. Keeping in mind that both companies are supposed to be treated fairly and have fair competition when it comes to US government contracts. Now what? Now what happens? Where's the liability? And by the way, now these companies are doing good things for the United States,

but they got there because they had an unfair advantage, competitive advantage, potentially. Again, this is hypothetical, right? Where's the liability there? You're talking trillions and trillions of dollars worth of liability. And who made those decisions to do that? Who's going to be held culpable for that? Security Exchange Commission would not be very happy to know that two publicly traded companies that were competing for a contract, one had an unfair advantage. The other went bankrupt. That's a problem. That's a real problem. And so you're talking about big, big money interests. You're talking about things that are going into that gray world that go beyond just government interests. You're talking about banking. You're talking about some of the biggest names on the planet

that have a lot to lose or a lot to gain in hindsight. So, you know, I think we always have to be careful that governments have always had interesting ties to certain interests. And that's true of all governments. It's not just the US, that's everybody. And we need to be mindful of that, you know, because you could be, you could be putting some people in a very uncomfortable position. And I'm aware of that. And that's why I've been very delicate how I approach this topic.

I'm not trying to beat anybody up. I'm not trying to expose anybody and say, ah, ha ha, gotcha, see there. I'm trying to have the conversation in a collaborative, meaningful way where everybody wins. Nobody has to get burned, right? It's not a zero-sum game. I'm not- Hypothetically, do they view it like that? Like there's a potential where everyone can win or do they view it somewhat zero-sum?

I can't speak for them. I can't tell you what they think. All I can tell you is what I think and my approach. And my approach is to say, look, guys, we're not trying to expose anybody. This is not, I'm not trying, it's not a witch hunt, you know, despite what you may see on social media, where everybody wants their pound of flesh, that's not going to get us anywhere. We need to, we need to

be adults about this. And we need to have a conversation that if you really want the truth to come out, you better be able, you better be willing to compromise. We're not going to sit there and put people to be eaten by the lions just to satisfy someone's ego or beef that they might have with somebody else. The truth is more important than that. This is not about, see, I told you so, or being vindicated this this is about having a conversation that's that that can affect all of humanity and we have to be willing to to set aside some of that uh if you will um and understandably so you know you've got lots and lots of decades worth of of people covering this up i know there's a lot of animosity and resentment

as a result of that by people saying, you know, you've been lying to us for all this time, but we've got to be willing to put that aside if we really want to move forward, in my opinion. You're referring to animosity from the general public or animosity from some of these wolves? No, no, general public who want their pound of flesh because people have been covering this topic up for too long,

knowing that it's real and lying to the american people potentially how long is too long when potentially is it centuries is it decades well you know there's information that goes web i live here in wyoming and i live next to members of the crow nation um and if you've ever had a chance to talk and really engage with indigenous people, first of all, they're very, very private. Two, they have an incredibly rich history. Their oral traditions and oral history doesn't go back a few hundred years. It goes back millennia. In fact, when Europe was facing its dark ages and mankind almost went extinct in the European continent and we were burning books, indigenous people over here were experiencing a golden era. That wasn't the case over here. the way they look at this topic, UAP, is not like we look at it through Western eyes. In fact, they don't view it as a threat at all.

In fact, they don't view it even as paranormal. They view it as normal, as part of nature, their natural environment, as real as the lakes and the sky and the trees on the mountains are. And it's just accepted as part of the greater universe. And I think there's some beauty there. They're not held hostage by their fears. In fact, they embrace it. And that goes to show that you don't have to view this topic as an either or. It doesn't have to be viewed as a threat or as uh you know um some sort of of um saving uh opportunity for our species um it could just be a natural part of our existence um again do i subscribe to that i don't know but i certainly i i certainly think it's another way another perspective that we should consider um if that is the case and and're right, then we've been dealing with this for millennia.

I can tell you that having a chance to talk to some people in the Vatican, they describe these flaming Roman shields in the sky that would follow them from battlefield to battlefield. They call it the Eclipus, which is the shape of the Roman shield. That's documented. That's there. In fact, I think if I'm not mistaken, I haven't read it from Jacques Vallée, but from my understanding, Jacques Vallée even wrote a little bit about that. But I've seen that evidence myself. There is documentation of these strange things in the sky going back a long, long time. So I don't think it's necessarily modern. Maybe our understanding is a little bit more advanced and maybe consider that modern, but I don't think we're dealing with a new phenomenon.

I think we may be dealing with a new recognition and perhaps, hopefully, at some point, a new understanding, but I don't think this is a new phenomenon to mankind. I think we've been faced with this phenomenon for quite some time. You mentioned millennia, which is thousands of years. I'm wondering, potentially tens of thousands, potentially millions? Or do you think it's cut off around 9,000 or so? Well, that's hard to tell because we only as a species, Homo sapiens sapien, have been around roughly for 100,000 years. And we've only really gotten into written language in the last 5,000, 6,000 years, really.

And been gone from hunter-gatherers to more of an agrarian type society, organized society, which is if you take 100,000 years and you compare the last 5,000 years, really only the 5% of our entire time rummaging around on this planet has been in somewhat of a civilized fashion. And then if you look at that to the context of it's been only in the last 1,000 years, 2,000 years, we understood the Archimedes steam engine, right? And really didn't even fully appreciate it until the industrial revolution just a couple hundred years ago. So now you're talking at 0.2% of mankind's time on earth. We've been industrialized, we've been civilized. So how much of our own history do we really know? Well, we can go back 5,000 years pretty easily. 8,000 years, things start to get a little murky, right? And anything much beyond that, we really have no clue about.

And the question is, have we as a species been aware of this phenomenon much longer? Well, let's look at what we do know. The general consensus is that the American population, when I say American, I don't mean United States, I mean North America,rations and many migrations before that primary migration 20,000 years ago. In fact, there may have been multiple migrations going back perhaps even 100,000 years ago. So is it possible that our society was aware of these things, maybe even interacted with these things in a certain fashion? I'm sure it's possible. Absolutely, it's possible. I mean, most of our history, we have no idea about. You know, it's like spending an entire day and having amnesia except for the last five

minutes before you go to bed. You know, what the hell was I? What was I doing? What did I eat? Who did I speak to? What did I say? What I'm wondering is what you're referencing is written history. And I'm curious about archaeological evidence that you're aware of so that potentially exists interesting yeah so let

me give you a real world example and i'm not gonna either refute or defend it but again i live here in wyoming um and there is a a legend here called the little people the pyori mountains um and for generations the the indigenous people have reported uh what appeared to be this fearsome pygmy warrior tribe of humanoid type creatures that lived in the mountains and for many many many years it was completely um considered a myth folklore right yeah and it turns out that scientists began uncovering um artifacts up in the mountains that uh to some degree reinforced the notion that there was some sort of uh small hominoid type creature uh living in the mountains um they found uh small tools they found you know small bones um that appeared to be be coming from some human-like creature.

Now, I don't know the details thoroughly. I haven't had a chance to really, really explore it or study it. But that part is true, that people are now beginning to look back and say, well, wait a minute. Is that possible? Because we're starting to find archaeological evidence. So, you know, it's interesting. Here, I can walk up into the Bighorn Mountains, and they're pulling out spearheads. Spearheads that are 11,000 years old.

Now, think about that for a minute. 11,000 years old. If that spearhead could talk, what people did it come from? What were they hunting? What did this place look like? Environments change in a blink of an eye. Look at the Sahara Desert in 5,000 years. There was a lot of wildlife living in the Sahara region before it became a desert. And that was in recent human history, by the way. We were inhabiting the planet when that happened. became a desert. And that was in recent human history, by the way. We were inhabiting the planet when that happened. There are drawings on the side of rock walls that illustrate

alligators, crocodiles, if you will, and animals that live not just on the savanna, but in the wetlands, all cohabitating there. So this earth is very dynamic. Every time we have a, for us, it seems like a long time, but every time we have an ice age, every roughly 10, 15,000 years, the entire topography of earth changes, the climate changes, animals change, people change. Right. You know, I think it's, I think it's very possible that, that there is potentially some sort of archeological evidence.

The question is, would we recognize it if we saw it? And that's another big, big question we have to ask ourselves. You know, let me ask you this as a scientist, Kurt. If I said to you, Kurt, you have a task. You can make it out of whatever you want, any material you want. Your goal is to, in a million years, you have to create something now that will last a million years to prove you were here. What would you do? How would you do it? Think about it. Go ahead. No, no, no. I love you, man, but we're going to have this mental

exercise right now. I think it's important. And by the way, it's not a trick question and I'm not playing gotcha. Just give me some examples that you might throw out there to say, okay, I would make something out of this or out of that. There are some metamaterials that seem to be harder than diamond. So whatever's our hardest material, it would be made out of that. Also, just so you know, I don't classify myself as a scientist i i'm more of a hobbyist let's say so that's what i would do fair so you'd find some sort of hard material that would outlast just about anything else on earth right where would you put it where would you put it orbit is one place okay and hopefully a non-retrograde orbit right so geosynchronous and hopefully nothing would perturb it in a million years chances or something would but okay hypothetically in orbit good um you know here on earth it's really hard to make anything that lasts more than a few thousand years you can even make the pyramids and look at them now and say wow those things are five thousand years old and you know they don't look so great and probably in another five thousand

years they're not gonna look good at all And they might last eventually till a hill of, you might have a hill of sand in 100,000 years, but that's going to be about it. And that's made out of rock, right? Mount Mushmore, same thing. It's going to be gone in 10,000 years. You won't probably even recognize it. It'll be too worn. Even mountains in millions of years become deserts, right? Time moves on. Then you have the subduction zones of earth that eventually, if you wait long enough on the surface of the planet, it all gets recycled anyways. It's constantly changing. And to create something that can last the sands of time, so to speak, is a lot harder than one might think. The few examples we have here on earth that are man-made, you can look to the pyramids, you can look at things like Stonehenge, but that's a blink of an eye. Those were just made a few thousand years ago and they're

not going to be around for a whole lot of time. That's just not the way earth is. So if we're trying to find some sort of marker, chances are you're not going to find it buried in the earth unless it only happened maybe the last 5,000 years ago or so. Even some of the most dramatic examples of terraforming, let's look at, for example, the meteor impact crater in Arizona happened 60,000 years ago. That's already filling in. In another 100,000 years from now, you may not even know anything ever happened because of the processes of Earth and what this planet does.

It's constantly erasing what's on the surface and it's constantly burying what lies beneath deeper and deeper and deeper until eventually, you know, it gets recycled. So, you know, that's a hard question. You know, what would last long enough for us to go back and say, wow, this is an indicator of alien life on this planet 100,000 years ago. What would you have to do to achieve that, to accomplish that? It's a lot harder than one might think. And then again, would you recognize it? One might say, well, DNA. DNA is a perfect example. If you wanted to do something that was enduring for humanity, that we could look back 100,000 years ago and say, yes,

that was absolutely manipulated by an intelligent life form. Well, deoxyribonucleic acid may be one way to do it. You can put coding and sequencing in there that will perpetuate over time and time, and yes, you'll have some degradation over generations. But in essence, you could do something that way. And basically, it's a biological marker, right? So, we have to be careful when we say we look for evidence, because evidence isn't just necessarily a spearhead found in the Bighorn Mountains from 11,000 years ago. It's not necessarily a pyramid sitting in the middle of a desert. It could be far more sophisticated than that. You said put it in orbit, right?

Well, what if, if we put that rather than orbit, we put it into the human body, you know? So anyways, that's, that's, that's, so I know it's a very long winded way to answer that question. Let me ask a quick followup and then we'll get to super chat questions, audience questions, and so on. Are there places that we should be looking for evidence that you feel like we're not? So, for example, I mentioned archaeological investigation sites. The reason I brought that up is some people say craft were found.

Okay, but you're also saying there may be other markers, maybe, possibly possibly biologically, for example. want to, you know, reminiscent of what was it? 2001 space, 2000 space, 2001 space odyssey, right? Where you have these monolithic markers. That's certainly one way to do it. You know, you could put something where you don't have those same processes occurring where maybe you might be able to extend your time twice as long for leaving some sort of archeological evidence. The evidence could be right here, could be right in front of us, could be within genetic sequencing. It could even be more obvious than that. It could be the very fact that we're alive and we're on this planet is an example of some intelligent life somewhere making a decision that life needs to exist on this planet. We need to be open to all of that. We really do.

I think we need to cast a very wide net. And this is why we say all options have to be on the table until they're not on the table, because you may be surprised. Something that's super, super intelligent probably isn't going to build a pyramid that's only going to last 20,000 years. They're going to do something that's far more enduring, something that will really be, you know, no kidding, you know, maybe in a few years. All right. This question comes from Terry Rueckert.

So I got to ask real quick, Kurt, I don't mean to, what, what, forgive me. And I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this. What is a super chat? I hear it a lot. What's a super chat? a lot of hate for this. What is a super chat? I hear it a lot. What's a super chat? Well, a super chat is when someone pays $5, $50, $100 sometimes. Most of these are $5 to $10. You'll get your check. Don't even say that because people are going to believe it. Okay. Clear the record, man. I'm not getting paid a penny for this. I know. I'm kidding. I'm kidding everyone. Okay. And thank you so much for supporting. Thank you so much for supporting this podcast. I appreciate it a tremendous amount.

It's not easy to do this full-time, and this is a place where I have almost no knowledge in, Lou, as you could probably tell by the sophomoric nature of my questions. Kurt, I don't think anybody does. You're not alone, brother. You think I do? You think if I have all the answers, don't you think we'd be where we are today? No, I've got more questions than answers,

but that's okay. My fear is when people say they do have all the answers. Those are the people that I don't trust because I know they don't. I've been in this for a long time for the US government and I damn sure don't have all the answers. So don't worry about it. You mentioned at one point that the present is thick, for lack of a better word, cigarette burning as the analogy. And for people who are interested in a more mathematical

treatment of that, I spoke to someone named Nicholas Gissen, who gave a formalism to indicate that the present time is thick, that you can't pick out a particular point, that as soon as you do, it's almost like honey. So if you're interested in that, I'll put a link in the description. Yeah, no, and we see that very practically in the world of quantum physics and even the expression or the description of an electron. electron. Again, for your audience who's probably my age remembers in high school, you learned that an electron orbits the nucleus of an atom, but in reality, that's not what's occurring. We now realize it's called an electron cloud for a reason, because of predictability and the fact that the electron can never be isolated in a fixed position. You can't do it. And in fact, some scientists now are speculating that it is because the electron is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It is so small that

it may literally be zipping in and out through the very fabric of space-time. And so it's nonsensical to try to predict the position of an electron because there is no position it's everywhere and nowhere at the same time around the nucleus of an atom and um you know that's that's that's some of the the observations we're beginning to see now and let me add to that that the past and the future are human semantic constructs it is always. It always has been now from the universe's perspective. The past is not something that's sitting next door to us. And another way that people think of things, and we think when we say that the stars are very far away, the light took a very long time to travel to us, we're seeing the past. Again, that's a

metaphor. We're not seeing the past, we're seeing the past again that's a metaphor we're not seeing the past we're seeing now and now is those photons are here hitting your eyes where at one point they were not and so these these are arbitrary concepts a lot of times so we've applied a linear understanding to to something that exists on a much deeper much deeper spec in a lot of ways when we talk about going past going future and i think a lot of what lou we talk about going past, going future. I think a lot of what Lou's talking about is that reality is anchored in now and in the present and in the entropic state that we exist in at this moment. There's so many variables to that. We're jumping to motive. I think that's something we just have to keep in mind.

Yeah, I'll go even a step further, Kurt, too, with that kind of piggybacking off of what Sean said. The whole notion of here and now is almost nonsensical. Let me give an example. I ask you, Kurt, where are you right now? Let's do a little quick exercise for you and your audience. Where are you right now, Kurt's do a little quick exercise for you and your audience. Where are you right now, Kurt? Let's say Toronto, Canada. Okay, where's Toronto? Where's Toronto? I don't know how to answer that.

Okay, well, where's Canada? Where's North America? I think I see where you're getting this. Yeah, right. Right, and where's our solar system? Where's our Milky Way? There is no here, here. We invent here because we have to live in an environment where we are used to boundaries and borders in order for things to make sense. But in reality, in the big scale of things, in the scale of the universe, the notion of here and now is really nonsensical because it depends on where I am relative to everything else.

Here and now only exists. Go ahead, Sean. Sorry. It's like trying to pick out a specific electron from the electron cloud. It's, yeah, everything is moving so dynamically at all times that a location is not a concept either. It's only a location it's only a location in a in a certain regional area and you have to have some kind of substrate to measure that against

and we live in a universe that lacks a substrate there's no snap to grid that we can say we've you know we've we're now 14 parsecs northeast to you know local globular cluster north what is what's that mean you know how would you navigate to that um that that's something that really that really digs into my head how would we navigate to a point in the past you have to figure out its location in space time we haven't found space time yet to be a thing to measure in that way. In fact, if you look at the theory of inflation of the universe during the Big Bang, early parts of the Big Bang, and even now as the expansion of the universe continues to get bigger and faster, scientists are now stating that space-, space-time itself is being created.

And that's how you have this expansion of the universe occurring faster and faster and faster. And when you look at that case in point, let me see if I can bring this to a little bit easier to understand. The universe has been estimated to be almost not quite 14 billion years old, right? And yet when you ask the scientists, how big is our visible universe from end to end, they say it's about 94 billion light years across. Well, how can that be? Because that means the universe has to be expanding faster than the speed of light. Well, not necessarily. What's happening in theory is that actual space-time itself is expanding as well. Think of probably the best way to explain it would be, imagine water seeping up from the bottom of the bathtub and filling up the bathtub. It's filling up from

all sorts of little pores. Water's coming out everywhere, not just out of the spigot, but everywhere. It's starting to fill up the tub. If that is the case, then again, the notion back to where we are in the universe is always changing. In fact, when you say to yourself, and it's a little bit scary to do, but you say, I'll be here tomorrow. No, you won't. You will never be here again. And you can't. It's impossible because the entire universe isn't static. It's moving. And the only way to know where you are is only relative to other people and where they are. And by the way, they're just as lost as we are.

So, and I don't mean that just figuratively. I mean that physically. We are all kind of scattered through the winds together. And the only way we can kind of relate to each other is, oh, you're kind of close to me. So I guess relative, you're six foot and I'm five foot, nine. And we've gauged things relative to each other, but we really have no idea where we really are or even when we are. And that's something to ponder perhaps. Do-it-yourself craft, Q asks, what's his take on alien abduction experience? They're interesting.

They're fascinating, but they're just that, they're an experience. And with every person who talks about, you know, how these things may be here for peaceful purposes, and, you know, just because they've never attacked us means that they're benevolent. There's just as many people who are terrified and report the opposite experience.

I've said this before for record. Look, if you take a member of my family against their will somewhere, that's kidnapping. And God forbid, if you touch them, now that's assault. Both are criminal offenses uh offenses um and from my perspective i don't care what your intent is bottom line um so i i if abductions are happening um well the award of abduction itself is a criminal act right it's kidnapping um it's not taking you on a date it's abduction um if that indeed is happening um the problem is it's very hard to quantify and qualify um that that aspect of the conversation because at the end of the day you're

just relying on eyewitness testimony there's no gun camera footage there's no radar data to suggest that it's just someone's personal experience and when do that, you have to consider all sorts of stuff. You know, you have to, you're now talking about aspects that involve psychology, aspects that involve sociology and aspects that involve philosophy. You know, we all interpret data differently as human beings. Processes occur differently in our brains and biochemically even. So it's very hard to do anything with that data from a military perspective, from a DOD perspective, because eyewitness testimony is one

thing and even that's tricky sometimes. But when you start talking about experiences, physical experiences from people, and they vary so much in some cases, and some cases are similar, there's a core part of our research in ATIP. Again because scientifically it's very hard to quantify and qualify. There's nobody else that can say, yes, I saw this person. There's a few small anecdotal examples here and there where people say, yeah, I saw the person disappear or something like that, but that doesn't help us. We need more information or more data. I will tell you... No, actually, no, wait. Sorry.

Next time. Next time. Yeah, next time. Yeah, it's interesting. Tom DeLonge, I recall, was saying one shouldn't do CE5. I'm going to get you to explain what CE5 is. But anyway, one shouldn't do CE5. And when one does it, often orbs are associated with it. And one thinks, oh, that's great because I'm inducing some contact. And Tom said, be careful. One shouldn't do that lightly. So that to me implies that there's something nefarious or potentially nefarious about these orbs. Well, I mean, look, I'd say the same thing. You know, don't mess around with electricity unless you're a licensed electrician.

Be careful because you can get zapped. That's true with anything. That's not just orbs. That's electricity. That's swimming pools. That's everything. You know, just I can't speak for Tom. You know, I don't know what Tom meant by that.

But I can tell you that that general word of caution, I think, is appropriate for just about anything out there. If you don't know what you're getting into, just be mindful. There are potentially things that go bump in the night, and it's not all necessarily good or bad. It's not all sunflowers like your cup. Well, anytime you go snorkeling, look, I'm an avid scuba diver. I've been scuba diving my whole life. There's always a remote risk when you go scuba diving in some of these beautiful coral reefs. You know what? There's a risk you're going to come up against a shark. Now, not all sharks

are going to do anything, but if you're carrying a bag of fresh fish that you wound up spearing and are now bleeding out of this bag and dead, chances are you may attract a lot more attention than just a curious shark. You may be attracting a hungry shark. Now, you got to kind of pay attention. So, I think that's wise advice on just about everything that we do. I live here in Wyoming where a lot of people like to go splunking and adventuring into caves. But again, you have to have the right equipment. Be careful when you go into a cave. Make sure you've got light.

Make sure you've got gear that can get you in and out and rope and whatnot. What's going on at Skinwalker? Did ATIP study that? And I know you don't like to espouse, but what do you think is going on there? Sub-question, let me say before I forget it. And then I wanted to know, is there a connection between Bigfoot and UFOs? Because there seems to be a confluence of that at Skinwalker at least. Is there a connection between Bigfoot and UFOs? Because there seems to be a confluence of that at Skinwalker, at least.

So I worked with colleagues that were focused on the OSAP and the Skinwalker phenomenon. What I can say is that they are very convinced, and I think I am too, that there are things that probably go bump in the night that probably need further explanation. But that was not my portfolio. And I don't want to speak to that because I simply don't know. That was done at a time with the tremendous efforts of Mr. Bigelow and the former director, OSAP director, and a lot of folks from Bigelow Aerospace. And the data was very compelling. I'll say that. It was absolutely compelling. And I think Mr. Brandon Fugle now and others have recognized the validity of some of that data. But that's all I'm prepared to say about that. As far as Bigfoot, I'm going to share

something with you. And I hope this doesn't turn anybody off. It's probably going to turn me on. I had the great honor and privilege of speaking with some people from the First Nations, Saskatchewan, indigenous people of the Lakota and Dakota bands. These are individuals who are fiercely proud, have an incredible heritage, and have nearly 10,000 years of oral tradition in this continent. And they have an incredible connection to the land. And I was asked by someone there, and I'm not going to say who it was, but a very senior individual who was associated with the First Nations people. And he asked me, he said, I want to ask you a question, Lou, have you ever seen Sasquatch? I said, no, sir. He said, I'm going to ask you one more time, are you sure you've never seen Sasquatch? I said, sir, I've never seen Sasquatch. Sir, I've never seen Sasquatch.

And he said, well, that's good. Because from my people's perspective, Sasquatch is a spirit that protects our women and children. And a spirit of the forest. And if you see a man see Sasquatch, it means your heart is impure. And I wasn't prepared for that. I was like, holy smokes. I'm sure glad I haven't seen Sasququatch uh interesting but yeah that was their there was their take uh very very interesting but who among us have pure hearts well that's that's a whole other question right i don't think any of us really do have pure hearts

but but the fact that that they see it that way uh i found very, very interesting. It's a very unique perspective. And I think if anybody has a right to have a narrative on Sasquatch, it's certainly Indigenous people. So I found that, again, I can't tell you whether or not that's true. I can just tell you what was told to me. But there you know, there you have it. As for Skinwalker in general, you just think, your statement is there is something that's going bump in the night, or you think there is? Nothing more can be said about that.

I'm hugely interested in Skinwalker. You know, current at some point, more is to be revealed. Yeah, you know, I don't want to go down any rabbit holes prematurely. You know, this is a very complex universe we live in.

And it's a system. And we're learning more and more about the reality of life and the transition of what birth means and the transition of what death means and human consciousness and human spirit and whatnot. And suffice it to say, we probably really don't have a very good handle right now on understanding what lies beyond our five senses. I've said this before. We have five fundamental senses for which we judge our environment. And if you can't touch it, taste it, hear it, smell it, or feel it, whatever, it doesn't exist. And yet the reality is 99.9% of the universe lies well beyond our ability to sense these things. We have Wi-Fi

signals coursing through your body every moment of every day. We have cosmic radiation coming from the cosmos. We've got neutrinos that are flooding your body from the sun. We've got cellular signals and radar signatures that are going to go to the local airport. And all these are real. And I tell people, if you want to know the reality of the universe, look at a night sky one night, look how pretty it is. Now take a radio telescope and look at that same night sky, look at it through infrared, look at it through ultraviolet, and you're going to see things you've never seen before. And so by definition, 99% of our knowable universe, we can't even perceive. And then when you look at the scale of the universe, and I've said this before, if you look at, I was corrected recently that the visible known universe is about 90-some billion light

years across, even though it's only been around for 13.7 billion light years. We think that the actual, the seeable universe right now around us is about 97 billion light years. And as big as that is in terms of us being this little tiny minute thing stuck in the middle of it, there is equally that amount of space, relative space inside every one of us. If you look at an atom, which is one times 10 to the minus 26 inside the whole, compare that to the human body, we have that same amount of space inside every one of us. There's a whole universe inside of us. And so the scale in which we live, unless something is 50 feet in front of our face,

we'll never be able to interact with anything that is an order of magnitude above us or below us. We can't even see the cells in our bodies without a microscope. So there are these realities all around us that constantly exist and that we are part of, and yet we cannot interact with. And by that definition, 99.9% of the universe falls outside of the realm of our perception. So who's to say that all of reality needs to fit neatly within the very narrow spectrum of the electro-optical frequency that we call visible light when we know that that's not true? Same thing

with acoustics, same thing with electromagnetic, same thing with everything. I think it's foolhardy for science to presume that everything can be explained through the fundamental five senses and the scale in which we live because we know that's not true. Look at dark energy and dark matter. Most of the universe can't even be seen. Right. Even the fundamental forces, who knows if there's more? Fundamental forces, right. Right. Strong force fundamental forces. Who knows if there's more?

Fundamental forces, right. Right. Strong force, weak force, electromagnetism, right. So I think we need to remember, if you are truly a scientist, we must remain open to the fact that we are judging our environment through a very, very narrow lens. It's like sitting up on the bleachers, watching a football game at the very, very highest part of a bleachers and watching the whole game through a soda straw. You're going to miss most of it. So that would be my two cents. Manny Ortez asks, Lou once said on a podcast that someone from the Pentagon told him that they knew that this phenomenon are demons. Although Lou didn't seem to believe it, I would love for Lou to expand on that.

I think most people would submit to you that a demon is some sort of supernatural being that is based in some sort of religious doctrine and is usually malevolent to some degree. But let's look at this from a scientific perspective. All things, by definition, are supernatural until they're explained, until they're normal, right? This cellular telephone I'm speaking to you on and the Wi-Fi signals 100 years ago would be completely supernatural. And yet in some parts of the world, actually, if I show a picture of somebody, then that's still supernatural. They think the soul is locked in the photograph. Everything is paranormal until it becomes normal. Everything is supernatural until it becomes natural. Everything is supernatural until it becomes natural.

And that is the definition of it. It just means beyond our understanding of what's before us. I can't tell anybody with a straight face that something is or is not demonic, because it really depends on what is your definition of a demon. At the end of the day, I've seen enough demons in my life in combat and warfare to know that there really is true evil in this world. A lot of it is manmade, but I can't discount that. I don't personally believe that myself, but I'm a big firm believer of know thy enemy. If it turns out that these things are demonic, at least we know.

I'd rather know than to guess. Do I subscribe to that line of thinking that these are demons? No, not particularly. What about angels? Great question. It's exactly the same thing. What about angels? Okay, let me steel man the question. Let me steel man it. When I say steel man, hopefully you're familiar with the term. I think what the person is getting at is that let's imagine, let's presuppose in a certain worldview that there's a deity that created the universe with intent. divine powers. Some of those are angels, some of those are demons, and then humans were created, or let's say the Big Bang was set off, and then humans were created via the process of evolution.

So do you see evidence, or do you have friends within AATIP who believe that those are demons in that sense, or angels in that sense even? angels in that sense even? I didn't see that in A-Tip, but I did see it in DOD leadership. I certainly am not going to confront someone's spiritual beliefs about something. The word angel comes from the word anhelios, of light, of fire. Think of helios, the sun, right? Our sun. These are terms that have been given to explain supernatural beings and occurrences during our existence.

I am, for one, despite being a scientific man, I am very much a spiritualist. I don't wear my religion on my sleeve. But I don't think that the topic of UAPs or even potentially extraterrestrials is necessarily against the idea of organized religion. When I went to Rome not too long ago, a year and a half ago maybe, and spoke to some very senior academics in the Vatican, they told me that in the 1600s, had you have told people there was no such thing as aliens, that would be considered heresy because there is no limit to the dominion of God or the notion of God. And it's only been in relative recent history that we have put these limitations on what God can and can't do. There can't be aliens because we have to be the most divine representation of God. So I find that topic fascinating, especially as it relates to theology and philosophy,

and even sociology, our reaction to it as a species. But I did not come into contact with that. And if it was an A-tip, it was kept hidden from us. No one talked about that. No one seemed to have any type of religious aversion looking into this topic. As to the connection between psychedelics and aliens or psychedelics and UAPs, you're unaware of any credible, verifiable, falsifiable data? Well, look, I mean, now we're getting into the world of consciousness, you know, and

I would submit to you, is not everything we do a result of a conscious process occurring in our brain. By very definition, everything I do in life is a result of some sort of willful intent based upon a consciousness process occurring in my brain, just like you and everybody else. We realize that human consciousness is an area that we're just now beginning to explore and we understand even less. Is it possible that human consciousness is part of a universal consciousness and that we can tap into this? Human consciousness is not only for humans, possibly.

There's people out there who have pet cats and dogs. I'm one of them where you have a connection with your pet, not because it's just a cat or a dog, but because there's something deeper that you are connecting with, something far more intimate, something far more sacred than just furry little bag of skin and hairballs. There's something… And by the way, that life form recognizes you as well as a sentient being. There's this appreciation that, hey, we're on the same wavelength. I may not look like you.

I may not act like you or talk like you, but we're kind of the same thing. We're both conscious, sentient beings, and we recognize that in each other. And they also may explain human interactions as well. And they also may explain human interactions as well. So consciousness may not be something that is only owned and defined by the human species. Is it possible there's other things if we can communicate with dolphins and cats and dogs and birds and gorillas? Maybe human consciousness isn't quite – maybe it's not so special. Maybe it's indelible.

Maybe it's something that's part of all of nature. And when I say all of nature, even beyond this planet, perhaps. Okay. Now I'm curious about the reason for secrecy behind this whole UAP phenomenon. And I'm curious, do you believe that it's profit driven primarily or that it's profit driven by the private sector or profit driven by the governmental sector or that it's altruistically motivated like tom delong may espouse or tom delong believes occurred i'm um for lack of transparency yeah i'm a little more more practical and and probably a little bit more um less optimistic um for our species on this particular question. What if there was knowledge, Pert, that was so volatile, so earth-shattering,

that the mere knowledge of that getting out could predicate an action that could potentially threaten the entire species. Now, what do I mean by that? For just a moment, take off the scientific hat, take off your humanitarian hat, take off your philanthropic hat and put on a hat of national security. We just talked about the fact that there's no indication that these things have been here to help us. So there's really only three possibilities. They're benign, or if you will, benevolent, or two, they are malevolent, they're here to hurt us, or three, they're just here to observe us and they're capable of doing both good and bad like us. Well, if you were to put on your national security hat

for a second, let's say you're a general from the 1950s or 60s and your job is to protect America and all things good and great and the height of the Cold War and you've got the Soviet bear across there and things are pretty tough, right? And nuclear proliferation is a real thing. Now, you have information that there is something here that can outperform anything you have. And really, anything you have is rather ineffective from a national security perspective. And there's a thing out there, and it doesn't show that it's being benevolent. So it's only one of two other options, either malevolent or it's like us. So it's one of two other options, either malevolent or it's like us. And we see this very careful ISR surveillance of our nuclear equities. It's interested in nuclear equities. Well, some may look at that as what we call preparation at the battlefield. And let's just say hypothetically, there's a 10% chance, USS, a 10% chance that these things are bad or one day they're going to come here in force and they're looking at us. Remember, you're putting on your national security hat, so forget about everything else for a moment. Your job is to be paranoid. And there's a small remote chance that these things are not good. And maybe there is a plan for these things at some point to come in force in 50 years from now. And if the mere fact you have this conversation with the American people, what's

going to happen? Well, the American people are going to start getting prepared. Well, I can tell you in real life combat situations, when we send in long range surveillance, burst teams behind enemy lines, the moment the enemy finds out that we know, that they know we're there, the surprise, element of surprise is over. And so ultimately, hypothetically, imagine a scenario where maybe we had 50 years to prepare for something, but now that the cat's out of the bag, that existential action will happen tomorrow. And by the way, we're not ready for it. We're not prepared for it.

We don't have a countermeasure. We don't have a capability to counter this. And so from a very real perspective, a national security perspective, the mere fact that you are acknowledging the existence of something may predicate an action or an act that you're not prepared to have right now. And so I encourage you and your listeners to just for a moment, I'm not asking you to be a national security person, but I'm asking you to suspend your personal beliefs right now for just a moment and put yourself in somebody else's shoes who does feel that way, right? Now, what do you do? If the mere fact of talking about this could potentially cause a reaction that you're not ready for as a country, as a civilization, right? Maybe that's

the reason why you decided to only brief certain presidents who have a background in intelligence. Maybe they were former directors of CIA, but the other presidents who are career politicians be you know they're here today gone in four years maybe you can't even risk telling them and so maybe the reason why this has been kept secret so long is actually in a weird sense some sort of sense of patriotism by people um and and you know maybe maybe that's how they justify it um and I'll leave that at that as a you know just that as a counterpoint of forcing people to think maybe a little bit non-traditionally. Now, do I think if that happened to ever be the case, that's a good explanation? No. I still think that we have to be honest with the American people. I've said this before, it's like going to the doctor. Just because I have cancer, it's bad news. Don't keep that from me. I want to know,

because maybe there's a chance I can do something about it. But do I understand that mentality? Sure. Nobody wants to give anybody bad news. Now, am I saying that's the case? No, I'm not. It's just you asked me one of the reasons why people would want to keep this secret. Well, that's a really damn good reason why people may want to keep this secret, because the mere fact of not keeping it secret could cause a reaction that you're not ready for yet. There's nothing you can do. You don't have a countermeasure. So again, from a national security perspective, that makes sense. Again, I don't agree with it, but that's understandable. The general public knew or saw what you saw. How would they,

what would the next week look like? How would the public react? Somber. Uh, I think there would be this, uh, big exhale for about a day. And then this

turning inward and trying to reflect on what this means to us and our species and ourselves. I think... Somber, sorry, like a sigh of relief?

Somber meaning serious. Not like Hollywood portrays people partying in the streets and silliness with that. I think you would have some people perhaps turning to religion more so. You might have some people turning away from it. I think you're going to have, at that point, the philosophical and theological questions will be raised, and people will have some serious soul-searching to do, no pun intended. And I don't think that's bad, by the way. in this community being charlatans will have been exposed and they will be probably unemployed and probably have to change their names because the rest of society will look at them in an unfavorable

light. I think there are some unsung heroes that will probably come to light and the world will appreciate their contributions to this topic. I think the scientific and academic communities... No, I can't give those names. I know what I was going to say is names that have been announced before when you say the unsung heroes or new names. Yeah, names that have been announced before. Okay. I think the scientific and academic community is going to have to take

a real hard look at itself and see why it repeated the same mistakes it did when Galileo first proposed that the Earth was not the center of the solar system. Hubris is a big part of that. And then I think maybe we start the international conversation and say, okay, we realize that there's some things out there that are probably well beyond our petty discrepancies we have with each other. Maybe we really need to start working together on this. Realize that we are really a global family. It doesn't matter where you're from. It doesn't matter what your religion is, your culture, your color, anything else.

We are all brothers and sisters on this tiny little rock or you know this pale blue dot that's hurtling through space um we may unify us well i i would certainly hope so unless we allow our our our core nature to to interfere and we look at this as opportunities to subjugate each other. I would hope that's not the case. Vu, thank you so much. Do you have any advice for me as someone investigating this topic somewhat anew and somewhat... Keep pushing, keep asking the questions and be fearless. That is the true scientific pioneering spirit, the ability to

challenge the status quo and be able to do so in a courageous way and in a well-meaning way. The true enemy of science is stagnation, is acceptance of the norms because we know that's not real science changes. our understanding changes because we're human humans change so uh you know we need to continue to pursue the truth wherever that truth may be we need to continue to pursue it the last time we spoke there were two comments that you said that stood out to me well one was the somber the somber heard around the world in a sense and then you clarified that or you added to that by saying sobering oh i was wondering we can get to that and then also you mentioned that the charlatans of the world will be shown to be charlatans and i again don't know much about this ufo community

but people in the comments were saying did he mean stephen greer so why don't you comment on that? You can be as diplomatic as you like. I know that you're a relatively diplomatic person. Yeah. Let me start by somber or sobering. Imagine everything you've been taught, whether it's through Sunday school or through regular formal education in school or what our political leaders have told us. And yes, even maybe our mothers and fathers around the dinner table have told us, or maybe at bedtime, about who we are, right? In our background, in our past. What if all of that turned out to be not entirely accurate?

In fact, the very history of our species, the meaning, what it means to be a human being and our place in this universe. What if all that is now in question? What if it turns out that a lot of the things that we thought were one way aren't? Are we prepared to have that honest question with ourselves? Are we prepared to recognize that we're not at the top of the food chain, potentially? That we're not the alpha predator,

that we are maybe somewhere in the middle? It's interesting because I was having a discussion with a friend not too long ago. We call them gray beards in the government. Really, really smart guy. I'm not going to mention his name, but I was talking to him probably a couple months ago. And this is a guy who was always paid to solve the hard problems for the US government. Cold war. How do we solve that? How do we do these big things? How do we go in and beat the Russians

at their own game? So this guy I respect tremendously. And we had a conversation. He said, you know, Lou, mankind's been around for a little while. And for most of that time, mankind's been around. We've been smack in the middle of the food chain. We've been, you know, we ate a lot of things. A lot of things ate us.

And that's just the bottom line. And about 70,000 years ago, something fundamentally changed. Something changed. And our species was instantly catapulted to the very top of our planet as far as predatory animals. And now all of a sudden, we became the most species that existed on this planet went extinct because of us, believe it or not, because we were eating all of it. There were a couple of species that did very, very well with our ascension, our immediate

ascension. And we brought a couple of species with us. The dog is an example where the dog species benefited greatly with mankind's ascension as the alpha predator and wound up succeeding as well, doing very well off of that. That changed the entire global landscape of our planet almost overnight. Large animals went extinct because of us. What if it turns out that there's another species that is even higher on that ladder than we are? Do we need the social institutions that we have today? Will we need governmental and religious organizations that we have today

if it turns out that there is something else or someone else that is technologically more advanced and perhaps from an evolutionary perspective more advanced? Have we been wasting our time all this time? Or are we doing exactly what we're supposed to be doing? Does it turn out that mankind is in fact just another animal in the zoo? Because we thought ourselves as a zookeeper before, but maybe we're just another exhibit inside the zoo. What would that mean to us? So when I say sombering and sobering, I mean that there's going to come a point in this conversation where we're going to have to do a lot of reconciling with ourselves. Whatever that means, from whatever philosophical background you have. whatever that means from whatever philosophical background you, you have,

this is going to impact every single one of us the same and yet equally and yet differently. And I think that's important. You know, do we find ourselves in a situation where history may have to be rewritten? So that's what I meant. Now, as far as the charlatans I'm not going to give any attention to individual charlatans because they already have enough attention they know exactly who I am referring to these are individuals who have have have made a a cottage industry a career of taking people's hard-earned money and deceiving them and not only deceiving them but having them sign nondisclosure agreements to make sure they don't tell the world that they've been deceived, and preying upon people who, for whatever reason, believe in them.

People who say, my narrative is the only narrative narrative and anybody else who tells you otherwise is trying to hurt you. I have all the answers. I have the solution. Anybody who says that, I think it's a charlatan. And I think we need to be very, very mindful of that. They're very dangerous. And they're dangerous for several reasons, because if they're lying to you about that, they're probably lying to you about other things

in their life, their past life and their current life, which may or may not come to light at some point. These are people who have taken advantage of people for a very long time. And you have to be careful. What else are the motivations of some of these charlatans, or potentially could be their motivation, other than financial? Well, look at any religious charlatan. It's the same thing. It's a cult personality. It's somebody who, for whatever reason, thinks it's all about them. And they manage the narrative.

It goes to the basic core of pride and ego in human beings. And narcissistic behavior um you know real true deep psychological issues um some sociopathic to be honest with you um is there any gold in that rubble i'm sorry is there any gold in that rubble as in it's all of what they're saying some of these charlatans we don't have to name names i know i think i think i think there's always there's always fibers of truth in in in a blanket of lies um because that's that's what holds it together there are some there are some aspects of truth the problem is um when you take that truth and you distort it you know there's people in history that that were very good at convincing large amounts of people that they have the answer right um i don't need to go back into into history to say which ones those are but you have characters like jim jones um heaven's gate is an example, even Hitler to some degree, where

they were very charismatic people who got people in this web and they didn't realize it until it was too late. I just think when you're creating all these shell organizations and pass-throughs and paying people off to do things for you to deceive other people, I think is problematic. Again, I'm not going to mention names. I think most people are smart enough to see through it. My concern are those people who are already sucked into it. It becomes a cult and becomes brainwashing and manipulation and that's my concern because it gives a terrible name to the to the to the effort

and and making false accusations um you know i think is is there's an old saying i don't see if i can remember it that um There's an old saying, I don't know if I can remember it, that ye be careful of the knife ye uses to stab at the back of others, for surely that knife will be used against you in the future or at some point. So, you know, anyway, being just, you know, right. Karma, karma is a bitch. Be careful. You know, right, karma. Karma's a bitch. Be careful. You know, Mother Nature has a vote. She's got a way of always squaring things up at the end. And, you know, that's what I've seen anyways.

What is it that you tell your family slash children about the phenomenon? They need to find their own answers. We're all trying to figure this out together. And it's okay to be excited. It's okay to be scared. It's okay to be whatever human emotion you need to ascribe to it. It's okay. I think honesty and truth is the best remedy always. That will get us through pretty much anything, even when the news is bad, even when the news is good. And I try not to think for anybody. Don't try to think for my kids or my spouse or my friends. The only person I can think for is me. my friends or you know the only person i can think for is me and um you know i tell my kids you know don't just be kind to one another be kind to the world as much as you can you know try to give back

more than you take um you know because i think whether you're talking about ufos or anything else that's sound advice if you want to if you want to if you want to think about UFOs, well, it depends on how you lead your life as a human being, which is going to take you down the road. Look, there's a lot of people out there that want to hijack the narrative. But it's not just because it's a UFO thing, it's because that's the kind of people they are. They will do that with anything and any opportunity that they're given. UFOs is just one of them, but there are people out there that will try to do that and hijack that. And it's a shame, but I can't change those people. I'm not going to, and I'm not going to waste my time changing those people.

You know, they have to deal, they have to deal with that on their own terms. And that's on them. Look, there's bad people. I face them in Washington. I face them on the battlefield.

You know, I face them in every day. You know, when you, when you, when someone is trying to, to, to mug you or carjack you or something like that, there's just bad people out there.

You know? So anyways, that's,. So anyways, that's my two cents, maybe three cents. Let me ask you a further question, if I may, not that I'm interviewing you, but it's actually a question for your audience too, but I can't talk to your whole audience other than addressing you, so I'll address you. We look in terms of everything from a humanistic perspective, and we want to make sense from nonsense. It's just kind of in our DNA, right? When we are talking about the topic of UAP, I think everybody deep down inside has this

innate desire for it to, quote, make sense. Put it in a needle box and it makes sense to us. The problem is the more we talk about UAPs, the more we exchange ideas and then the more we begin to formulate our own opinions about UAPs. And so what happens when the topic of UAP, the truth, doesn't comport. Because we're all doing this right now subconsciously. Subconsciously, every person does it. We are creating these little boxes that we want to check off regarding this topic of it's from outer space.

It's from interdimension. It's this, and they want this, and they can do that, and they can do it today. That's interesting. And we are building those boxes without even realizing it. So when we ask the questions, we're actually asking the questions in a way to check those boxes that we've already made up psychologically in our brain and our subconscious, right? But we have to avoid doing that. And it's so natural that we don't even

realize we're doing it. How do we avoid the temptation to ask really the big question without being tempted to fill in the little boxes? A lot of the questions your wonderful audience has asked may not even realize, but they're trying to check those boxes that they've made for themselves in their brain. They've preconceived these little boxes that I must have an answer to this box because this box then relates to this and this and this gives me a bigger overall picture and answer that I'm looking for. But what if this is even far more bizarre than that? That how do we ask a question to something we don't even know what questions to ask? Meaning maybe it's not even in the realm of our ability to really get to the root of this because we're looking at everything from a human perspective, human motivation, human interest, human desire, fears. What if it's something completely different?

And so, in essence, we need to avoid creating these little boxes prematurely in our mind, which is hard because that's what we do as a species in everything that we do. Take dating, for example. When you go on a a date with somebody what's the first thing you do so do i like them are we compatible do we like the same things do we like to eat the same thing same diet terry you know am i a vegan they're a meat eater you know these little boxes that we put in our brain you know um already but before you even ask the question, we have these little voids up you want to fill. And the question is, how do we avoid that temptation? How do we pull ourselves out of a human paradigm to ask the questions that maybe aren't human questions at all? I don't know. My one word of advice is turn to your children,

turn to your loved ones, and love them. Invest in your relationship with your loved ones and your friends. Start with that. And people get mad. They're like, well, what the hell does that have to do with the topic of UAPs and anything else? This has everything to do with it. Because if you don't stop to do that and realize what's really important in life, then everything else is irrelevant. The reason why I do what I do is because it's those two minutes of beauty that I've seen the human species capable of. We are capable of such hatred and destruction towards each other, but we are also capable of such kindness and beauty. And that to me is worth saving. That is why I do what I do, because those moments, those few precious moments, all of heaven, all angels sing when a good act is done and rejoice.

And it's for that that is worth saving the species for. That's what makes us so wonderful. Unfortunately, we are also our own devils, and we do things that are very destructive towards each other and ourselves. And that's just part of the human condition. I think that's probably normal. In fact, maybe that's one of the reasons why we're here, perhaps, is to learn to rise above it. There are certainly certain religions that feel that way, that we're going to continue coming back over and over again until we finally learn our lesson. Maybe that's the natural order of things. I don't know. But I do think that it's okay to be human, but we need to recognize when we are doing evil towards each other. And we have to be willing to hold each other and ourselves accountable. And that's the life lesson. for for coming out to this i appreciate it it took an interesting turn and i hope a productive one i think so there was a time in about a month ago or so or two months ago when on twitter i was realizing that there's plenty of hate and i'm not saying i'm immune from this hate like if people

saw what occurs in my mind i think people would be extremely surprised at the egotism and selfishness and so on well there is there i wouldn't say competing factions in the ufo content creator community but there are different beefs and i thought you know it'd be great if we could all why don't we all just put that aside and just have beer even though i'm drinking tea but have beer and be on a collective zoom call. Just put aside, extend the olive branch. So while this conversation may seem like it has nothing to do with UFOs, maybe, maybe, but maybe it's a more important conversation because it deals with what gives birth to the conversations about UFOs. Bert, how can you honestly have a question and a conversation and answers

about potentially one of the most existential issues facing our species. If we don't even understand ourselves, how do you possibly expect to understand someone or something else or another species? If we don't even understand how we work, they are the same. If you want, and this is why I kind of, and I'll just share with you now, the reason why I said,

look, when you ask you my number one advice understanding UFOs, go hug your kid and go hug your family because that's where it starts. That's where it starts. It doesn't start reading a book. It doesn't start with having a conversation or podcast. It starts here. It starts here right now, reaching out and understanding who you are as an individual and what you are and what is meaningful in life. That's where that journey begins. It doesn't start out there. It starts in here, right here. That's how you have to make that journey.

The very first step to understanding out there is first understanding right here and what's here. And this is why I said what I did without going into a lot of detail earlier, because this sounds kind of, I know, a little mushy, but I mean it. And Sean will tell you how many times have we over the years had this conversation. There's no shortcut. You can't just all of a sudden have a shortcut and boom, now I understand the secrets of the universe. You first have to try to understand the secrets of yourself that you've been keeping hidden from yourself and others. And only then when you understand that will you be able to even begin to ask the right questions to understand what lies beyond. They're going to say, oh, I thought you were about science and nuts and bolts

and evidence and all this, that, and the other. And it's like, but hold on a minute. I can tell you're not even here right now. You're not even present in the conversation. I don't mean you. I mean, this hypothetical person we're talking to. I'm like, bro, you're either lost in the future or the past at every moment, either in fear of something that hasn't occurred or in regret of something that happened before, trying to figure out how not to go through that pain again and try to avoid it. You're just on the treadmill and going. I'm not there anymore. You know, and it gives a different perspective and it gives an idea of some of the larger ideas behind UAP, a completely different vantage point.

a completely different vantage point. And I think one way to, I know we're getting near the end of our conversation, but we do, some people ask me, I say this phrase and people go, what's that mean? And I'm like, it means what the two words mean. We put them together, so figure it out. But consensus reality is the reality that we're all sharing.

Our language, our monetary systems, our decoration, the shapes of our houses and our cars, those are all consensus reality. We decided those things look like that and we're going to keep them looking like that and things are going to look like this and we're going to talk this way and we're going to do these things. That could be flipped upside down tomorrow and the human animal would still survive. It could all be removed and the human animal would develop a new way of communicating and a new consensus reality and that consensus reality at some point in our past was about animalistic spirits and and and our connection to nature and now it's very techno-based very very very self-aware and introspective everyone's a guru now

everyone's a technological uh uh you know maniac they have all the things that's a lousy word every everyone is an engineer they have all of these devices in their hands then collect all of this data now everyone meditates a thousand the world a thousand years ago would not recognize us now they would think we were all super people. And we all sit around still laughing with each other because our kids can't balance a checkbook. And this is a large reality. Especially in this field, we peel off pieces of it that are way bigger than we think they are. And we say, I'm going to try to slap a binary answer on this right now, right here, and then we can go chill out. It's not that easy.

Your life lasts as long as your life does. Your journey lasts as long as your journey does. And that may not be the nuts and bolts answer some people want, but if you don't know who the hell you are, stop asking me who the hell they are. Thank you both for coming out and for spending so much time with me and the 3,000 other people who are watching. It's an honor, man. I know we went all over the place, and I love that we got – look, when we talked beforehand, I told you whatever it is, we'll get through it. And it's not that we were anticipating conflict, but it was we knew that there had been – there's been static in the past, and we weren't going to let you down because we weren't going to give you easy answers. You know what I mean? We were going to, we're going to give you the real folks. That's what we talked about coming out doing. They let our hair down.

So I appreciate you keep doing this, you know, but we all have to learn from the conversation. We just have. Thanks man. Yeah. Kurt. I, I agree. Thank you. Always honored and privileged to be here. Thank you for humility. Thank you for your honesty. We all suffer privately sometimes with these demons and it's called humanity, man. This is the situation we're in. Let's just recognize and try to help each other out of the ditch, right? Whenever one of us falls into the ditch, don't just recognize and try to help each other out of the ditch, right? Whenever one of us falls into the ditch, don't throw stones, try to help the person out. Come on out here. Let me give you a helping hand, you know? And I think that's part of the lesson of the journey. And, you know, I know you probably want to spend the last hour talking about UFOs,

but in reality, you know, time has probably come for us to have an honest conversation about ourselves, you know, in order to continue that conversation about about UFOs. All right. You made it to the end. The links to all three podcasts are in the description. If you have any questions for Lou, leave them in the description, as I'm likely going to be speaking with him in person at some point shortly. If you'd like to see this podcast continue, then please consider supporting at patreon.com. There's also a PayPal option for a more direct route, even crypto. We've been having a difficult time monetizing this channel with sponsorship, and financially it's been unnerving and extremely stressful to say the least. Your generosity is greatly appreciated.

There was an open letter recently on Theories of everything, which I'll now append, as many people have personally messaged saying that they wish I had said this sooner because they would have supported had they known the issues that we were going through. Dear friends, as I sit down to write this, I want to express my deepest gratitude. Your support, engagement, and the passion for the Theories of Everything podcast have been the driving force behind this endeavor. We've built a community that shares a fervor for science and philosophy, and for that, I'm eternally grateful. Truly. Despite our 240,000 subscribers and the vibrant community that we've built, the past 11 months have been challenging. Behind the scenes,

our channel has been grappling with financial struggles. Our content, deeply rooted in science and philosophy, unfortunately falls into a category that doesn't fetch the highest ad revenue on YouTube, to say the least. This isn't just our struggle. Even Sabine Hossenfelder recently mentioned a similar issue. During 2023, I've been working harder than ever, which I didn't think was possible, often at the expense of personal Thank you. as you can imagine, so that I can improve on each episode. Despite my love for studying for Toe's and the joy I derive from interacting with our guests and community, the financial returns have been far from promising. This letter is a discussion or disclosure by me on what's been going on behind the scenes at Toe. Our struggles have been exacerbated by issues with sponsorships, which were once a significant part of our revenue. Despite the promise of good returns,

sponsorships, which were once a significant part of our revenue. Despite the promise of good returns, the sponsorships recently turned out to be a financial setback. Unforeseen expenses such as poor deals that we weren't aware of until later, writing scripts, dealing with the sponsor intermediaries, acquiring products for review that were sent across the border, and then paying our dedicated editor have strained our resources. There were even instances where we unknowingly did sponsored spots for free, believing that we were being paid. That's right, for free. This is unheard of. However, I take full responsibility for these mishaps,

and I sincerely apologize for any disruption they may have caused to our content. I've had and still have no podcasting mentors nor connections. Zero. Everything's been built from the ground up. I've learned some hard lessons along the way. There were several times when we interviewed large names and they didn't so much as tweet about Toh. Despite them promoting other podcasters, I would be disingenuous if I were to pretend. I'm not a tad bit hurt, but that's just how it goes. Luckily, the depth and breadth of our content have always been a point of pride at Theories of Everything. In fact, the guests themselves invariably remark on-air and off-air how this is the

most thorough, the most in-depth of any conversation with them out there. Wonderfully, even the comment sections seem to echo this sentiment. Like, man, oh man, that's fantastic. I believe in quality over quantity, at least for Toh, and work to ensure that every single episode is not just informative with meticulous timestamps, but also thought-provoking and engaging. Hearing from you and the community about how Toh has ignited intellectual curiosity, changed lives, inspired you, helped you through your own dark nights, and provided a platform for discussions that might otherwise be out of reach fuels my commitment.

It's an honor and a privilege. I too know what it feels like to be lonely in this space of physics, math, AI, consciousness, without anyone to talk to who doesn't look at you like a nerdy quantum quirkster, other than say virtually. To keep Toh alive and thriving, we're working on several projects. So for instance, number one, we're developing an artificial intelligence tool to recover old audio and improve the sound of episodes like the old Chomsky episodes. Number two, there's a lost lecture of Stephen Wolfram's from MindFest that we're recovering

the audio from by developing, again, an AI tool. And this tool should prove helpful for future podcasts as well. Number three, we're working on translating our episode into different languages to reach a wider audience. You'll now see there are several accurately captioned languages. Number four, I would like to do more in-person interviews. Number five, I would like to do compilation episodes on specific topics from several guests. So usually you have one guest speaking on several topics. What about if we just said, hey, does quantum mechanics give rise to consciousness?

Yes or no. And then we have every guest on that subject. Or hey, what is the physics of free will? And we have every guest on that subject. Most channels of our size have teams, but Toe doesn't. It's just me and the editor. And we each work more than full time. I would be remiss if I didn't mention the darling angel that is my wife, of course.

Without her, there would be no Toh. There may not even be a Kurt. You'll see many other YouTubers interviewing the same people and that's because it pays significantly more to go with what works. On Toh, I've purposefully chosen not to interview high-profile guests that I feel like are featured on the podcast circuit repeatedly. Now, the positive side of interviewing people repeatedly is that it opens you up to massive connections and influence. But on the deleterious side, I feel like it would sacrifice a modicum of character in my likely wrong opinion. Instead,

I've opted to bring hidden gems like Michael Levin, who has astounding theories and studies to the forefront and to delve extensively into them. Therefore, I'm reaching out to you, our loyal subscribers, for support. Your contribution would go a long way in helping us maintain and improve the quality of our content, ensuring the longevity of Toe. If you would like to contribute to Toe, there are two primary ways, both listed in the description. There's number one, Patreon at patreon.com slash kurtjaimungle. There's number two, PayPal at tinyurl slash paypal toe with a capital T-O-E, lowercase PayPal. In fact, PayPal gives more to the creator.

Every dollar helps. It's difficult to underestimate how your support keeps Toe and myself and my wife going. Both financially, in terms of the emotional support, knowing there are people who will voluntarily donate something that they could have spent in innumerable ways somewhere else, for no other reason than they want to help out. If you already support Toh and want to increase your donation, then of course, we would more than welcome that as well. Thank you again for being part of the Toh community. Your continued backing and engagement mean the Toh community. Your continued

backing and engagement mean the world to us. Here's to exploring even more theories of everything together. Warm regards, Kurt Jaimungo. P.S. If you're ever curious about what future projects there are of Toh, you can always message me with specific questions. Me and or my wife read every single comment and try to respond when we can. There's also a day in the life of a hectic time at Toen. Luckily, it's no longer anywhere near as shambolic. Despite the turmoil of the past 11 months, they've simultaneously been the most rapturous of my life. It's a blessing. Thank you dearly. Man, thank you. Thank you so much. After the posting of that letter, there's been a flurry of support, not only from you, from the audience, but also from other podcasters. Coincidentally enough, Theo Vaughn, a channel with over 2 million subscribers, just talked about this same issue happening to him on his channel with being cheated over sponsor deals and also waiting approximately a year before saying anything publicly because we're not allowed to.

Here's a 65 second snippet from September 2023 on Theo Vaughn's channel. Link in the description. So, yeah, you can keep that money, but you can't get me to shut up. I mean, other podcasters wanted to say this shit right now, but can't say it. The way that people are able to cheat and lie and manipulate the system. It's just fucking kind of sad, man. And they did it, man, they did it to, I mean, some of these people's podcasts, this is all they had, man. So for anybody that had to take that sucker deal over there,

I know that some of you guys have said to me that you wanted to say some of these same things. Notes and the person he's speaking about has nothing to do with Toa. I just want to make that clear. No, we've gone through what's similar. One comment of the over 500, like, man, this post alone has more comments on it than when

I ask for questions for Josje Bak or for Noam Chomsky. Holy moly. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. So now the following comes from an email, which was precipitated by the YouTube community post that I just shared. Actually, it was by my thank you email to this person. Hi, Kurt. The decision to donate was entirely motivated by gratitude for the great conversations and information your channel has brought me. In terms of feedback, maybe what I value most about Toe is the depth that you're willing to go to for the complex topics. It's clear that you genuinely want to understand the nuances of each and attempt to reconcile with similar and competing ideas. I love that you're willing to bring up the competing theories and complementary views, even get people to foster many sharing ideas like Michael Levin and Yoshua

Bach, two people I'm a huge fan of. That said, sometimes I feel like you put a bit too much pressure on yourself in terms of preparation. I love that intent, but it struck me as a bit excessive, and I'm sure you're aware for the need for balance and probably agonize over it. Just know that I don't expect you to have an encyclopedic knowledge of decades of some person's work just to adequately interview them. I understand how tricky this balance must be, though. I'm going to comment on that in one moment, but just here's one more that touched my heart. And this one is by James Mackey. Thank you for all your work. It's meant a great deal to me. In 2015, I was sleeping on sofas, listless and destructive. Now I have my PhD at the London College of Music coming up and I'm lecturing this year at Durham College and I'm

pleased with who I am today. Much of what I like about myself, I've modeled on the values I see in yourself and your interviewees. Serene, sincere, kind, and concerned, I found a tremendous consolation discovering the academic community with you over the last five years or so. You've been a role model and introduced me to several many other role models. The comments that I'm going to start reading at the end of the episodes aren't always just effusive thank you comments to me. They're generally going to be about other podcasts and ideas and theories, but because of the preceding YouTube community post that I just mentioned,

I thought it was apt to talk about this. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much. Also, with regard to the pressure and the reason why I study so hard, it's not actually because I want to have the best quote-unquote interview. It's because the goal of the Theories of Everything podcast is in part, in large part, for me to understand every theory. And in order to do so, I study super hard because I'm speaking with the author of a theory and I don't want to waste this opportunity. In other words, the production of a podcast is the side effect of me just trying to understand theories,

particularly theories of everything, the largest theories. So that's not something I've made clear. And I hope this helps demystify the reason for why am I putting on so much pressure to study for each guest. It's not just to have a great interview, because maybe I could study half as much or even 20% as much. It's because I want to understand the theories. There's also playlists. So if you want, you can look in the YouTube description. There's several playlists for Toe. You can click on that so you can go through episodes one by one if you like. Every episode on Toe is edited so there's no large spikes in the volume or loud jumps with music so that people can listen as they sleep. Because I know I used to listen to podcasts as I sleep and I would dislike when they would just quote someone and then the levels were obscene and it would wake me and then I couldn't fall back asleep because I'm worried it's not going to happen again. That won't happen for Toe. If you personally want to message me to get in contact for whatever reason, for sponsorships, for donations, for support,

just telling me what Toe has meant to you, if that's what you want, then you can email me directly at Toe, so T-O-E, at IndieFilmTO.com. So that's I-N-D-I-E-F-I-L-M-T-O.com. Toe at indiefilmto.com. Thank you so much for all your support. Thank you. Thank you. The podcast is now concluded. Thank you for watching. If you haven't subscribed or clicked that like button, now would be a great time to do so as each subscribe and like helps YouTube push this content to

more people. You should also know that there's a remarkably active Discord and subreddit for Theories of Everything where people explicate TOEs, disagree respectfully about theories and build as a community our own TOEs. Links to both are in the description. Also I recently found out that external links count plenty toward the algorithm, which means that when you share on Twitter, on Facebook, on Reddit, etc., it shows YouTube that people are talking about this outside of YouTube, which in turn greatly aids the distribution

on YouTube as well. Last but not least, you should know that this podcast is on iTunes, it's on Spotify, it's on every one of the audio platforms. Just type in Theories of everything and you'll find it. Often I gain from rewatching lectures and podcasts, and I read that in the comments. Hey, Toll listeners also gain from replaying. So how about instead re-listening on those platforms? iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whichever podcast catcher you use.

If you'd like to support more conversations like this, then do consider visiting patreon.com slash Kurt Jaimungal and donating with whatever you like. Again, it's support from the sponsors and you that allow me to work on toe full time. You get early access to ad free audio episodes there as well. For instance, this episode was released a few days earlier. Every dollar helps far more than you think. Either way, your viewership is generosity enough. you