Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal - Travis Walton on Being Abducted, Alien Faces, and Being Inside a UFO

Episode Date: August 7, 2021

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/0Myis6JOaZwProf. Brian Keating's podcast: https://www.youtube.com/DrBrianKeating?sub_confirmation=1Steven Cambian's Truthseekers: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPyK7hcP5xVlWNI3h6T5_UQ Jeremy Rys' Alien Scientist: https://www.youtube.com/user/AlienScientistProf. Brian Keating's podcast: https://www.youtube.com/DrBrianKeating?sub_confirmation=1 Sponsors: https://brilliant.org/TOE for 20% off. http://algo.com for supply chain AI. Steven Cambian's Truthseekers: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPyK7hcP5xVlWNI3h6T5_UQ Jeremy Rys' Alien Scientist: https://www.youtube.com/user/AlienScientistPatreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal Crypto: https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOE PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802 Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverythingTHANK YOU: Thank you EndlessKettle (Ollie) for helping me with the questionsTIMESTAMPS: 00:00:00 Introduction 00:03:38 Why has Travis seen so many UFOs when most have seen none? 00:05:01 [Saqib Ali] Aspect about the incident that he doesn't like talking about 00:07:03 I-5 Sighting of a Pyramidal / Triangular UFO 00:08:39 Pregnant girlfriend alien experience -- no longer pregnant afterward. 00:11:43 Does Travis regret that the abduction occurred? 00:13:24 Travis done DMT? Psychedelics and his experience with aliens 00:14:41 Consciousness and telepathy 00:16:27 [jonny 80] Any new memories of advanced technology? 00:19:54 New details of a "screen" (with a drawing later) 00:22:47 [Steve Cambian] Roger Lier association 00:26:31 [Roger Mawby] Did the aliens have a face with a nose and mouth? 00:27:00 Did Travis watch The UFO Incident (Betty Hill case) prior to his case? 00:27:46 [Steve Cambian] Mike Rogers says it's a hoax 00:35:16 Who's the filmmaker against Travis? 00:40:11 [Archer, emissary of gorgonites] Skinny Bob 00:41:01 Smells inside the craft 00:41:45 [Jackson Vega] What do you think of Steven Greer? 01:40:54 [Randol] Were the aliens PART of the craft? 01:41:53 [Jason Brown] What else is physical evidence near the abduction site 01:43:54 [Dynomyte Bizquick] Was gravity different on the craft? 01:45:37 How did the aliens walk? 01:46:33 [Benito] Did they grab you to heal you? 01:47:24 How has this affected his view on death and God? 01:48:29 Kelley Waldrip's accusation that Travis is lying 01:54:21 [Eve Clancy] Have you been abducted more than once? 01:54:59 [Bilbo Baggins] The UAP disclosures, are they the same craft that you've seen 01:55:55 More about the noise of the craft 01:58:08 [John Doe] Coincident about making up a UFO story when younger 01:58:54 [Buck Fanx] Did the other beings communicate with one another 01:59:24 [Freedom Loving Fool] Could you tell if you were underwater or aerial 01:59:40 Freedom Fighter] UFO's as psy ops? Are they threats? 02:02:05 [Dynomyte Bizquick] Do popular alien depictions resemble what you've seen? 02:02:50 Testing his clothes (for radiation etc.) 02:03:21 [Stephon Exodus] Is he amazed that people still ask him about his abduction 02:04:48 [Steve Cambien] Did Roger Lier inspect Travis' pregnant girlfriend? 02:08:25 [Tim] Do you recall seeing signs / symbols

Alright, hello to all listeners, Kurt here. That silence is missed sales. Now, why? It's because you haven't met Shopify, at least until now. Now that's success. As sweet as a solved equation. Join me in trading that silence for success with Shopify. It's like some unified field theory of business.

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He's widely considered in the UFO community to have one of the most credible stories of UFO abduction. Though this is, of course, a contentious issue. The incident happened in 1975, where him and his colleagues were working in the woods in Arizona. When a UFO came, shone light down, terrifying everyone. And everyone except Travis managed to escape. He was found five days later. A few days ago, I was lucky enough to host an Ask Me Anything livestream with Travis, where I asked questions from the audience as well as soliciting questions from Reddit.

For those new to this channel, my name is Kurt J. Mungle. I'm a filmmaker with a background in mathematical physics, particularly on the theoretical ends, and I'm interested in what's called a theory of everything, or theories of everything in general. Now, that means the investigation into the fundamental laws of the universe. There seems to be a connection there between consciousness, free will, God even, and theoretical physics.

There aren't many scientists who are interested in exploring the UFO topic, at least publicly, unless it's to dismiss that they're genuine craft from a non-Telurian source, or at least Telurian in the sense that we understand it. So let's say the inhabitants of the countries as far as we know. There are some people like Richard Dolan who think perhaps it's a breakaway civilization, but that's beside the point. It's flattering and humbling that even though I'm a fledgling in this topic, the community

has been extremely kind to me. The UFO community, so for example the Reddit community, including people like Jeremy Riss from Alien Scientist or Stephen Cambion from Truthseekers. They're far more knowledgeable than I am and I curate like clay in comparison to their nuance and specificity. As far as actual scientific professors investigating this topic publicly, there's only one, and that's my friend, Professor Brian Keating, who sponsored today's video. Brian's Into the Impossible podcast is the only other place where you can consistently find rigorous interviews

with Nobel laureates on the topic of experimental physics, as well as recently on the topic of UFOs slash UAPs. as well as recently on the topic of UFOs slash UAPs. He's a member of Avi Loeb's Galileo Project in search of technological signatures of alien life throughout the cosmos. And soon, Brian Keating and I will be speaking to Tom DeLonge on Brian's podcast. It will be a live stream AMA as well. So make sure to subscribe to Brian's podcast. Links are in the description if you want to see that. The next sponsor is Algo, which is an end-to-end supply chain optimization software company

headed by Amjad Hussain, who I've mentioned frequently on this podcast as one of the first, if not the first, supporter of the podcast. I thought it'd be great if you all could get to know him in the same way that I do. Given this, I interviewed Amjad, and I'm going to be including little five-minute snippets

into the ends of several episodes, including this one. Stick all the way to the end if you want to hear a conversation between Amjad and myself about UFOs. The last sponsor is Brilliant. Brilliant illuminates the soul of math, science, and engineering through bite-sized interactive learning experiences. Brilliant's courses explore the laws that shape our world, elevating math and science from something to be feared to a delightful experience of guided discovery. More on them later. Thank you and enjoy. Okay, if you can see this, type Bulbasaur. Bulbasaur. Say again?

No, not you. The audience. I'm just making sure that it's live streaming now so that I don't have technical difficulties on my end. Okay, Travis, we'll start with how are you doing man how was your day i'm doing okay it's we've had a huge rainstorm here it's kind of flooding the street but uh all i got was wet feet the first question is why is it that you think you've seen so many ufos because most people go their entire life without seeing a single one do you think you're tracked all right well that's a good question but uh it i think it has to do with um living in a remote area, living an outdoor lifestyle, clear skies, the weather's ideal for seeing whatever's up there. So many people say, oh, I've never seen anything like that.

And I say, well, have you ever looked up? And they kind of hem and haw about that. But I mean, I see a wonderful panorama of stars every night when I walk to the car or whatever, you know. I would never want to imply that they have an interest in me or something like that, but I really don't think that multiple sightings are that rare when I look around and, you know, just inquire with casual people, people who aren't into the paranormal or UFOs or anything. And it seems like everybody's had sightings. Not everybody reports them, but it's not that uncommon. This question comes from Saqib Ali.

He wants to know, what is one thing about the incident that you haven't talked about because you don't like talking about it? Well, there's a number of things that I like to steer clear of. number of things that I like to steer clear of. You know, interviewers just love to zero in on the most terrifying parts. And naturally, those are the parts, you know, to actually recount what I was feeling at that time. After 45 years, I still rather not go there.

Do you have PTSD from it? I think so. Yeah, I was surprised to the degree to which I do. You know, having this other sighting that we sort of alluded to earlier, coming back from a MUFON meeting in Burbank, California, heading up the five, this giant black triangle came, stopped right over the top of the car, turned and headed off to the West. Incredible ability to decelerate and accelerate. It was still something that I wouldn't have ever brought up in an interview or anything like that, except that I was able to find out that it was seen by about 15 other people, or at least reported by that many people by the next morning. So certainly over a highly populated area like that, there were many, many more people who saw it, but just didn't know where to report it.

I recall that you have had an experience with a UFO somewhere on Route I-5 or Road I-5 or Highway I-5. And it had to do with a pregnant girlfriend at the time. Do you mind recounting that? Yes, the same sighting. And yes, she was with me. She was. And so was my son. And what happened?

Well, it's in her estimation, there was missing time. You know, it seemed to take a lot longer uh to get home than it should have uh you know accounting for time differences and the whole the whole thing but uh again i've always uh tried to avoid reporting things uh i can't corroborate. Everything has to be documented. Was there missing time on your part, or only she reported that to you? Well, I agree with her, you know, her estimations and comments about it. But by itself, it doesn't constitute proof. And it's just something we find very interesting. And your son also experienced missing time or time dilation

um he doesn't disagree he's just you know how would you know you know on a long drive like that all the way from burbank to snowflake arizona um how do you know for sure was there something about your girlfriend at the time was pregnant and then after the sighting, she became not pregnant and it was because of alien interference. I don't know if I'm reading that from by surmising from the questions or if I've read or heard that somewhere. Well, boy, that is something I, I don't really bring out that much because you know uh she works in a government facility and um you know has a security clearance and uh um i really don't have her

permission to talk about that or name her or whatever but yeah, she had a mark across her stomach. I went into the gynecologist's office with her. I observed on the ultrasound that there was a placenta, a cord, and the fetus had just disappeared. Why do you think that is? I don't know. One speculation is obviously that the baby was taken by some alien technology. Another alternative is medically speaking, some kind of a thing where they claim that a baby can be reabsorbed. But if that were really true, you would think it would affect the cord and the placenta too, but it didn't. I know that you have intuitions or feelings that these

beings were being helpful toward you. Given that, do you think? Yes. I'm wondering. I think. Go ahead. I'm just wondering, okay, how is the removal of a fetus positive unless maybe the baby would have been born cancerous or have some other issue? So I'm curious if you don't mind.

I'm sure you've thought about this. Do you mind letting us know your speculations? Well, obviously, the theory is that we conjecture that the baby is alive somewhere. It was just taken for a more nurturing environment. With really super, super high tech, I guess the woman's body is not absolutely necessary. That's the theory. How far along was she in the pregnancy?

In days, I don't know. I don't have that on the tip of my tongue. Was it within a month or was it within six months plus or minus a month or you have no record? Oh, it wasn't a very large amount of development, you know, lose clothing. She probably could have disguised the fact that she was pregnant. Do you regret that the abduction happened? Do you wish it didn't? Absolutely. Oh, I wish, I wish I'd never gotten out of that truck.

Just not, not a big positive in my life or even in those that I care about. Not positive with respect to the press and the accusations or the PTSD or what? All of the above, including just that the topic never escapes. You know, it's just to live a normal life, react to normal things, be interested in things. It's even hard to be under the weather now, under the radar. What I meant was that to be recognized everywhere you go is

some people think would be pretty cool, but not really. Do people come up and try to take pictures with you? All the time. I get people knock on my door. Hello, I'm in town. I know you live here. Could I trouble

you for an autograph and a picture. Okay, so right now, I'm sure you're considered, your identity is the UFO person, at least as far as other people are concerned. Is there something else you'd like to be known for? Do you have another hobby? No, just dad, grandpa.

Something other than that guy. Okay. High priest of Galvin of Gavin almighty asks, has he ever done DMT? And how does that compare to his experience in the eighties, which I believe he means seventies. What's what's DMT. It's a psychedelic. Oh, Oh, Oh yeah.

That's a chemical uh spirit molecule no never any psychoactive substances like let's say cannabis or lsd or mushrooms um 50 years ago um about a handful of times okay 50 years ago is about the 70s. Was it 1975? No, it would be in the late 60s, early 70s. It was just altered states were not... I always strive for the greatest reality, the greatest here and now, rather than altered states. It's just a preference of mine. I'm such a stick in the mud, I don't really even enjoy alcohol. Same, I don't drink at all, actually.

When it comes to psychedelics, there's obviously a connection between psychedelics and consciousness, and there seems to be some tenuous or maybe even direct connection between consciousness and these entities, whatever we want to call them, aliens whatever do you see that and if so what is that connection I think it's just basically simple telepathy it's inevitably where communication will go for humans I think to to a great extent people already experience this phenomenon, some in a much more highly developed way than others. And I think for beings that are always being described as being emotionless and cold, to me that is merely a sign that facial expressions have become obsolete for them. They're going to communicate a greater richness of what they mean, inflections, emotion and all that. And no need to have anything represented by muscles on their face contorting in certain ways. It really is kind of an unusual thing because I think humans are pretty much the only critters that communicate that way.

There's all kinds of things that animals do to communicate in terms of sounds and posture and sorts of things. But I think for advanced consciousness, telepathy is inevitable. Johnny 80 asks, the abduction happened around 1975 and our technology was still primitive at the time. During your time inside the ship, what kind of devices or interfaces got your attention? What did the light sources look like? Were there any screen or anything that displays images?

Oh yeah, there was a great deal of that sort of thing that I wasn't there. Gee whiz, wow, this is amazing. I was terrified. It was out of my mind. How do I get out of this thing? How do I escape was my main focus. So most of the, you know, interest in these kinds of things occurred in retrospect, you know, looking back on things I saw and interpreting them the best I could. Is there anything now that much technology has been developed in the past 40 years, whereas

before you wouldn't recognize what a cell phone was, maybe it wouldn't be conspicuous to you or just wouldn't register. But now you have that. So now thinking back, given our technology wouldn't register but now you have that so now thinking back given our technology is there something that you recognize that when you were there you didn't but now you have this linguistic tool set of modern technology yeah um and maybe things beyond still where we are you know uh what was I describe as a screen had intersecting lines, but no characters. And that's really strange.

How would they know what was what as far as these gradations meant? It's all speculation. Is it all right if I ask you some questions about the screen? Is it all right if I ask you some questions about the screen? Well, like I'm saying, I was just desperate to find a way to open a door and escape this thing. I wasn't musing about what this means. a glowing surface, kind of like a computer, but black lines with little short black lines on each of those, but at angles. And these angles would change and they would slide in response to me touching this surface. I took to be buttons. It was colored areas on the surface.

I don't remember. Have you ever mentioned this before? I was looking at some of your interviews. I don't recall this. Well, I might have just referred to them as buttons. This is much more in-depth in that area than I've ever encountered. Have you ever drawn it before?

No. I worked with an artist who just gave a more distant shot, the angle of, you know, like from the door, from a distance. Okay. So am I to understand at this point, you were lying down when you saw the screen? No, no, I was wandering around desperately seeking a way out. Okay. So from what I understand, just correct me if I'm wrong, you were, you woke up being, finding it difficult to breathe. Someone put a mask on you that didn't seem to be attached to anything.

It also calmed you. At some point, someone who looked human appeared to you. And I believe they started taking you out of this smaller room into a larger one. Is that correct? Well, no. That's pretty jumbled together. You know, I woke up in a very great deal of pain. When I could finally focus and see these creatures standing over me, I realized, you know, I hadn't been hurt and sent to a hospital, but I was taken out of this craft by human looking beings to this larger room and smaller room off of that. That's where the mask was applied, but that was basically just designed to put me out, render me unconscious.

There are three rooms in total. There's the one that you were initially in, the one that you exited and it was much larger. And you said there was an outflow. That's a vast oversimplification. I was inside the craft when I finally exited that. It was at that point parked inside of this huge, we'll call it a room. It could be a building or part of a larger craft, and then taken out of this big, huge hangar-like area down a hallway to the room where I was rendered

unconscious. Were you able to see outside the craft? What color were the walls if there were walls um the the i i took the um lighted areas in the big hangar like area to be sunlight being filtered through some kind of uh frosted surface but it also could have been um synth or, you know, produced, artificially produced something to duplicate sunlight. Just not super intense, but just enough to light the area. You also just mentioned that you were working with an artist. Did the artist draw those lines on the screen that you're referring to about five minutes ago? Well, I described it to him, but the overall lay of the room and, you know, the screen and the surfaces that it was mounted on, all that was, you know, a 20 feet away sort of perspective, not down over my shoulder,

watching my hand kind of perspective. That's what I was trying to tell you. Okay. We have a question here from Steve Cambion. He wants to know, have you ever had an association with Dr. Roger Lear? Yes, I met Dr. Roger Lear. Yes, I met Dr. Roger Lear and considered him a friend.

He's no longer with us, but I did not do any work in terms of searching for the kind of work he specialized in. And that being because I'd already had upper body x rays from Dr. Kandel. And nothing was noted in the x ray. A tiny dot in one lung, they called it a granuloma, but, uh, uh, it probably was just a granuloma. Um, I've had other chest x-rays since then that didn't comment on such a thing, but, uh, at the time there could have been some, you know,

resolving effect from, you know, a prior respiratory infection or something. It wasn't considered real significant at the time. Do you recall the state of your clothes when you came to and you were found? I believe it was near to the location that you were picked up from yeah um my clothing looked pretty much the way it did at the time being hit with that blast of energy the first thing that we naturally looked for was was there any burn marks or anything like that but there wasn't but uh my brother was uh he'd had some advice from people who had contacted him at the site to preserve the clothing if I was returned. So he did have me take that off. I changed my clothes.

These were placed in a clean plastic bag and sealed up. plastic bag and sealed up but uh the planned uh forensic analysis kind of went by the way because there was so much um turmoil and uh just crazy stuff going on it was sort of forgotten it was in the trunk and the bag got uh things thrown on top of it, tore it open, and it was considered contaminated at that point. And it wasn't pursued. There was a whole lot of other things commanding attention at the time. Someone here, Mike McDonald, said, what's the secret behind the mustache? My upper lip. Many people here are saying thank you.

They admire what you're doing and they applaud your courage. Well, I would like something good to come of it. Working on it, you know, to begin with, I want people to know that this is a real phenomenon and that i think much of the fear or fear mongering is unnecessary much of what hollywood has done is um you know invading monsters kind of an approach uh I encountered beatings that were clothed. And of course, in Hollywood, they're always completely unclothed

so you can see the monstrous nature of their physical bodies. Speaking of the aliens' physical characteristics, Roger Mabie or Mabai wants to know, did the aliens have a face with a nose and a mouth? Yes, in this case, I imagine there's varieties out there, but I would say the nose and the mouth are probably have similar functions to us, other than perhaps speaking. Maybe they sing. I don't know. than perhaps speaking.

Maybe they sing. I don't know. Did you happen to watch The UFO Incident? I believe that's a film about Barney and Betty Hill. Did you happen to watch that prior to the abduction? Yeah, years and years later, I saw a little bit of it. Not the whole thing. Yeah, not the whole thing, but and I was actually introduced to Betty Hill on the phone by Dr. Harder. What I'm curious about is, did you happen to watch it or see the trailer or know of it prior to your experience prior to the abduction?

No, no, I was not aware of that. And of course, that was one of the first things that skeptics want to say is, oh, he saw the movie or TV show or whatever it was and was inspired to reenact it. But that's not true. from Truthseekers also wants to know, in the latest news with Mike Rogers confessing a hoax, so I'm unclear who Mike Rogers is, why has none of the rest of your crew spoken up on your behalf? Well, they have, and they all insist that, you know, what we saw, we saw, what happened happened happened. And even Mike Rogers is in the same supposed quote confession said there. I think there is no way this could have been a hoax. Well, this is a narrative that's being pushed by a filmmaker, a wannabe filmmaker. Truth is, he has no track record, no resume, but he's the one that's designed this whole scheme to try to fire watch tower that the forest service had and that what they really saw was this fire tower which is just totally nonsense it's laughable to see the picture of that and say oh you're going to mistake that for a glowing disc you know this thing is on a sturdy metal framework structure holding it up and um i was standing underneath this thing there was no uh steel legs or any such thing and it's just it's it's a real stretch to try to to claim. Somehow the crew didn't realize they spent another 15 minutes

driving to where this would be or something. It's laughable when you look at all of the deliberate misrepresentations that have been made. Mike Rogers is being claimed that he made a confession. He says, and has said a number of times since then, no, I did not say that. This happened just exactly as we described it. Who was Mike Rogers? One of your friends who was there? Oh, he was the crew boss. He was driving the truck that night,

taking the whole, all seven of us home that night. And you mentioned that there's a filmmaker involved. Oh, he calls himself a filmmaker, but like I say, he has no, no resume, no, no history of ever having made a film. He's really, really kind of a strange character. No, no permanent address, no, you know, he just drives around in a new RV and just mysteriously encountered Mike at the site. Just a wild coincidence. Mike was there, you know, doing something for MUFON, and he just happens to run into Mike.

you know, doing something for MUFON. And he just happens to run into Mike. But Mike's got some health problems and struggles with movement. And the site is a couple of thousand feet higher than where he lives. So there was a great deal of strain just being there on Mike Rogers. And this supposed confession was made over a phone and leading sorts of suggestions. To me, it's not clear at all. I would, in reviewing all of the lies,

blatant lies that this supposed filmmaker made in the course of this whole operation, just flat out provable, just concoctions out of thin air. I would take Mike's description of things over his, in spite of the fact that I've had quite a falling out with him in terms of other kinds of things that he's come to espouse in his waning years. You have to elucidate me because I don't know the relationship between this filmmaker and you and Mike. So is this filmmaker someone who is interested in doing a documentary

or a film on something, comes, meets Mike? Well, that was the supposed, a year before all this, I had a few conversations with him about making a documentary. And I told him, no, I'm not going tower theory that he was so anxious to find support for. But one lie that he tells is that I was in deep discussions with him about a big budget remake of Fire in the Sky. I never would have done that. That's ridiculous. of Fire in the Sky. I never would have done that. That's ridiculous. I have all the email exchanges at the time and nothing of the sort was said. And I've turned down a number of people, you know, just fly by night filmmakers and say, I'll do the remake. And I wasn't looking for somebody that

wanted to just kind of do something and capitalize on the fame of the incident, but somebody who really seriously wanted to do a better remake. And a group of people who have those qualifications contacted me recently. They called me. You know, I put it out there for quite some time that I would like to see a remake of the movie. But this wannabe guy concocted a pretty elaborate scheme to provoke these things in Mike, who, you know, he's not as good a health as he has been in the past. He was very vigorous, high performing. He did, you know, perform very well in the logging festivals and those kinds of

things. But he's had a couple of strokes and some other medical issues that I, you know, that I, you know, respect his privacy. And I tell him, I think he's delusional. He angrily rejects that theory. But I think this wannabe guy was taking advantage of Mike's, let's call it varying states of awareness and to try to push this narrative because he wanted to be the guy that was going to tear it all down because it was really the Gentry tower fire lookout miles away from there. And it's just totally ridiculous.

Is this a filmmaker filmmaker Jeremy Corbell? No. Can you say who the filmmaker is? Why would I want to make him famous? That's what he's here for. I have a nickname for him. His first name rhymes with lion because he's always lying. But other than that, I'm not going to.

Okay. Well, I have a question here about Ryan, and I assume then it's the same person. The question is, in a phone call with Ryan, you said, this is what this person is saying. This is what Steve Cambion is saying. You said someone else was posting on your Facebook on your behalf. So who is this person is saying this is what steve cambion is saying you said someone else was posting on your facebook on your behalf so who is this person that's the question well that was just speculation about people going online and pretending to be me i mean it's ridiculous how often that happens imposters that what you're talking about. Imposters. That's all. That wasn't some particular thing that was being discussed. You know, I had some strange people over the years, people claiming to be other than who they were.

Someone claiming to be the sheriff's nephew. I talked to the sheriff about it and didn't know who this could possibly be, claiming to know my kids and their cousin. They don't know who it could possibly be, but he was making ridiculous claims that he had the inside story. People do this all the time. There's something big in the news and I live in this area, so I'll make up some connection to this to gain attention. So he said when they recovered me from the phone booth that my stomach was covered with dirty needle marks. This is to suggest that the whole thing was a drug hallucination. I actually had a thorough medical examination, a number of examinations by a number of doctors right after that.

And blood and urine samples were submitted to the Maricopa County Medical Examiner's drug screen, showed no trace of any drug. examiner's drug screen showed no trace of any drug. And of course, the doctor examined my naked body and there was no such marks on me. It was just a way to claim some connection to something. There's a whole bunch of other stuff that he was claiming that were just about where Alan lived. You know, he lived in Concho, which is a quarter mile from Snowflake. I mean, this guy didn't even know the geography of the area. And he's faking lie after lie. But you know what? So many people online spotted his lies.

They were jumping him before I even found out he existed. But there's other connections, other people that, you know, They were jumping him before I even found out he existed. But there's other connections, other people that, you know, some a little bit more benign, some friendly. You know, there was a guy that I was friends with that said, because he lived in Heber, that when I made that phone call that night from my family to rescue me, that I called him first and he wasn't home. So then I called my family. That's an impossible set of priorities there. And it's totally falsified by the fact that when I called, it was a collect call. I had no money on me. The operator listened in on the call and reported to the sheriff and the sheriff sent officers over there that night.

So there was only one call made and it was just a kind of somebody trying to be important. You know, I know this guy and, you know, there there were a few other claims that, oh, here's one. I worked with Travis on the loud landing, and every morning when he'd come in, he'd take off his hard hat and line it with fresh aluminum foil. Basically saying Travis is a 10 foil hat guy. And it's just totally, I never worked with this guy on any log landing anywhere. And there were never any tin foil in my hard hat. Razor blades are like diving boards. The longer the board, the more the wobble, the more the wobble, the more the wobble,

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Plus 100 free blades when you head to H-E-N-S-O-N-S-H-A-V-I-N-G.com slash everything. And use the code everything. A few people here are saying that I never doubted you, Travis. That's memotype. Someone else is saying, well, there's many plaudits in the comments. I can't get to them all. Well, I appreciate that. And I would like to say thank you to those people. Archer Emissary of Gorgonites asks, is he familiar with the Skinny Bob videos, the alien leaked footage? And if so, did his abductors look like that? I have heard that term. And I, to the best of my knowledge, I, I don't think that description matches. It's, you know, people say, oh, they were the greys, It's, you know, people say, oh, they were the greys, you know.

It might be that sentient humanoids will tend to go in that direction. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that what's called the greys could actually be separate species, you know, even coming from different places. Although, you know, end up looking very similar. Debt Wattify wants to know if you recall any distinctive smells from the spacecraft. Well, that's a pretty common question. But the only thing I remember about odors, especially when I first woke up, was just the feeling of suffocation. I couldn't get enough air, and the feeling that something was very wrong inside, something like I was suffocating, and that the air was probably less oxygenated, but certainly a lot more humid than normal.

Jackson Vega wants to know, what do you think of Stephen Greer? Never met him. I've even been places where he was also appearing, but I basically keep to myself all the time anyway, and he never sought'm a novice in this field, and I don't know who to trust, who not to trust. So I approach each person with an open mind, and I assume what they're saying is true. And I just talk to them as if they're being honest. But obviously, some people are misleading. And I don't have enough experience. I'm unclear if you can get enough experience to be able to discern what's misinformation. But either way, who do you consider to be able to discern what's misinformation but either way who do you consider to be the credible people or some credible people well i agree that not all you hear at events or things that are made public are on the same type of is what uh we experienced um

i i think in in some cases they're just outright lies but in many cases these are people who have had some sort of very vivid experience that they truly believe but probably didn't actually have it but i that would be so presumptuous you know how many people pass judgment on me without having investigated my case happens constantly they they're they're so poorly versed they they're jumbled on the on the details but yet they're attacking uh they made up their minds before they even look at the facts. So I never wanted to be guilty of that to say who's authentic and who's not just on basis of my impression. I definitely do have those kinds of impressions. There are some people that I believe have definitely had authentic, they're

really recounting things that happened to them and others, perhaps not. But I've made a policy of not pointing to which ones are good and which ones aren't. What led you to believe that the people who are good are good? Like, what are you picking up on? Is it subtle body language? Is it something that they say that's consistent with your experience that only those in the know know many many things goes into that you know it's kind of just the same way you and i size each other up when we have a conversation you know um there are some people you can tell that they are um um prevaricators in a kind of a way they look at reality in a way that feeds their self-esteem um these people are called narcissists a narcissist is a form of mental illness

but it's really quite common and quite destructive but But when people hear the term narcissist, they think of, oh, well, the old Greek legend or whatever it was, where the name came from, it was supposedly some character in mythology who just was entranced by his own image in the mirror and the reflection. was entranced by his own image in the mirror and the reflection. Well, no, narcissism is kind of a sickness of floundering self-esteem that can be extremely dangerous. And when you say somebody's delusional they think you're talking about somebody who sees pink elephants in the room or is mindlessly jabbering um uh incoherently but uh no people uh But no, people that are of a mental illness of this sort can be very good at making things fit the narrative. You know, they have paranoid delusions that people are plotting against them or that things occurred in the basis of no evidence at all, but they're totally convinced by it because they need to believe it for various psychological reasons and potentially very harmful mental condition.

harmful mental condition. Travis, is there any aspect about the 1975 case that you can't talk about for some reason, such as the government told you don't talk about this aspect, or that it breaches confidentiality of a friend, some reason you can't talk about it besides the personal pain? Yes. And for that reason, I'm not going to about it but you know i just don't want to compromise people who are supposed to keep secrets that confided you know that's what the word confided means you know i they take me into their confidence and and i'll i'll try to abide by that, to respect that. So what I'm wondering is, I'm sure there are aspects, like you just mentioned, that you can't talk about. One of those reasons is because you made an oath to a friend, perhaps.

Can you talk about why you can't talk about it, rather than talking about it? than talking about it? Well, if they're in a position where they're sworn to secrecy, if they are, what's the term? I can't think of the word. It starts with a C. You know, when you

take an oath in the military or some other official organization, certain things or some types of information are off limits. And there's a word for that. By the way, anyone who's watching right now, can you please send me the link to the Skinny Bob video? Then I'll send it to you, Travis. And you can respond over email if it looks similar similar because i don't think you've seen the video is that correct that you haven't seen this you've only heard about the skinny bob video are you showing me the video no no no i'm asking you have you seen the video or have you only heard about the video uh i may have but i think it's something very vague and not remotely like

the small you know three four feet tall grays that i encountered where the term skinny bob came from is a strange terminology and oh and the word is classified people are saying that you were looking for the word that starts with c has this experience affected your outlook on life particularly with your relationship to religion and spirituality definitely definitely affected uh you know you've got to come to some sort of an understanding that's more universal you know the fact that we we have denominations within religions, and it's not just Christianity, it's other Arab and Eastern. That's my personal interpretation of it. But these are profound questions. We're talking about all of creation, the universe.

And so definitely needs to be compatible with common sense. common sense. You're seeking truth, not just something to back up your faction. Let's talk about some of the visual aspects of what happened when you were abducted in 1975. So you mentioned that visually they looked like humans and i believe on joe rogan you described them as wait a minute wait a minute humanoid humanoid humanoid does not mean looking like people that pass on the street in my town humanoid means two arms two legs a head on top eyes in front, rather than being looking like a large crab or a cockroach or something of that nature. So a lot of people have a misconception. The greys are humanoid.

And then there were other beings that, if they were living beings, that were brought in in order to interrupt my combativeness. I was fighting them. And I think the effort was to complete healing or repairs that needed to be made. And I was so terrified I wasn't allowing that. So those people who were brought in is who I'm referring to. You said that they look like people that would pass as regular people, just that in a cityscape, you wouldn't be able to point them out as being different. Right.

Yeah. And that, of course, would fulfill the purpose of getting me to calm down and cooperate. So that's you thinking perhaps that's the reason, but you're not 100% sure that if they were there to be introduced to calm you as an anxiolytic. Well, it's possible that there was some sort of ongoing

thing, but it definitely changed the direction of my efforts because I was terrified of these creatures. This was something I viewed as very threatening and frightening, and I wasn't about to cooperate. Now, many stories of encounters with these beings describe them as being telepathic or being able to use mind control, but I didn't sense anything of that sort.

But I'm explaining that in my own personal theory, I can't say for sure, of course, is that being hit by that blast of energy impaired that connection potentially. You're watching this channel because you're interested in theoretical physics, consciousness, and the ostensible connection between the two. What's required to that connection, potentially. explanations of abstruse phenomenon such as quantum computing, general relativity, and even group theory. When you hear that the standard model is based on U1 cross SU2 cross SU3, that's group theory, for example. Now this isn't just for neophytes either. For example, I have a degree in math and physics and I still found some of the intuitions given in these lessons to vastly aid my penetration into these subjects, for example, electricity and magnetism. Sign up today at brilliant.org slash toe, that is T-O-E, for free.

You'll also get 20% off the annual premium subscription. Try four of the lessons at least, don't stop before four. And I think you'll be greatly surprised at the ease at which you comprehend subjects you previously had trouble grokking. Links are in the description. Do you think that some of the human looking alien not humanoid the i don't we need to give it a name so that when i'm referring to it you know what i'm referring to the human ones that came in that were there supposedly to calm you at least so those ones do you think they were the greys dressed up do you

think there were a projection did you get the impression that they were robots? Well, it would probably would have taken quite a bit of telepathic manipulation to make these smaller creatures appear to be the human looking ones. So I'm thinking they were either really were just earth people that were cooperating with this species, or were a creation that they came up with in order to get me to cooperate. When they were doing what they did to you, whatever it was, did you get the sense that it was routine, like they've done this many times before, and so they were cold and distant? No. The lack of communication in hindsight i think was because um telepathic communication was not possible in the um injured state of my entire body including my brain

and uh wasn't because they didn't want to. It's just I was not in the position to, you know, receive or communicate. I was basically screaming like a crazy man. So that's nothing that encourages conversation. Paul Wash asks, well i i would say the number one thing at the top of the list would be why you know to have an explanation so much of what i'm telling you is my own speculation the the kind of conclusions i come to to come to terms with this but this is you know after 40 some years of thinking about it what's the most recent paranormal-esque event you've experienced parent i'm including ufo sightings as the paranormal whether or not you want to use that term you understand what i mean well um i try to stick to the things I can document. Some pretty impressive things in my personal life, but without any documentation, it's just a claim.

I even tend to shy away from telling people about extremely unusual things I discover in the world, you know, scientific facts, a little unknown animals and surprising sorts of things, because they think it's attention seeking. And they think it's just an exaggeration if they're the kind of person who doesn't want to believe what I have to say. Everything's conventional, everything's normal. That's what people who say there is no other life outside of planet Earth, that is what they crave so, so deeply, is certainty that we don't have to consider the fact that there are literally trillions of planets in our own solar system. Certainly billions of them are likely to be Earth-like. And I don't know, it's terrifying for some people, or maybe they like feeling special. And I actually, you know, asked people before. So when you go outside at night

and you look up at the sky and you see all of these millions of stars, you think that the creator just put them there to decorate our night sky, just twinkle at us? And they either say, imply that they actually think that or they just duck the question i think the claim would be not that i believe this but i think the claim would be that there exists life on other

planets but that's a different manner that's a different matter than if they've come here to inspect us or for some other reason well certainly and um there's even physics claims that you can't travel. I mean, you look at the nearest star and it's so many light years away that conventional travel would mean that even at the speed of light, they would have to take that many years to get here. But give me a break. You know, humans are just toddlers on the scene. You go back just a few hundred years and the most technological thing we have is fire. And to presume, you know, these people can't see that now we have cell phones, that probably things a lot more unexpected and not fitting with conventional thought on the subject might be in our future. We're talking about human history of a few thousand years of anything very complex. and to presume that in a thousand, no, two thousand, ten thousand,

what about half a million? The age of these star systems, the age of these stars and solar systems that exist out there is so great that the degree to which they're advanced over us in terms of physics and understanding of science to make flat pronouncements. I mean, it happened, you know, Lord Kelvin, he he proclaimed that humans would never travel faster than, I forget, 30 miles an hour. Or all the air would be sucked out of the conveyance and all the people would die.

So, you know, he predicted, wrote a whole book called Science Was Wrong, recording the various pronouncements that the experts of the day said, this is the limit. And I'm up against that myself. So who am I? I'm not a nuclear physicist. I'm up against that myself. So who am I? I'm not a nuclear physicist. Daniel Rayson here says, as a witness myself, I'm glad this man is brave enough to take the ridicule for the rest of us. Now, Tim Yusubov says,

Travis, you described ship controls in some interview. How did you get to that room? And how long did you stay there? I just ran there because of the, my, I presume my combatants, my threats towards these creatures, they left and I just went seeking a way out. So when I entered that area that I only presumed to be controls, I have no confirmation that anything I was doing was actually moving the ship. I didn't feel it move. What was the question again? Sure.

They want to know how did you get there and how long did you stay there for in this larger room? Oh, well, it was just moments. And perhaps this button pushing, attempting to open the door when I didn't know where the ship was. It was at an airless place. I didn't even know, but I was in hysterical panic and doing things that were probably unwise. And I encountered this human looking being who led me out of there. So it was only just minutes. You also mentioned you went down a ramp to get from the initial room to the, to the second larger room. Can you describe the ramp? Was it smooth? Was it gray? Were there steps on the ramp?

It was, I was mainly concerned with where they were taking me. So I was paying attention to that and their surroundings. But the ramp itself was not slippery, fortunately, because it was steeper than you would normally consider comfortable to be descending. Nothing special, just a ramp. Did it open or was it already opened? It was already open.

And I like detail, so please entertain me for this. As it's coming down, or it was already down, were there hinges that allowed it to come down that you saw? Or was it just an open space? No, no, no. I didn't see it in motion, but I did not see it moving from closed to open. The door that opened probably would have triggered that if it wasn't already down. It could have been a section of the craft that merely slid down and took a different position. I doubt it was something that just came out of the floor in the hangar area. MP wants to know, what does Travis think about the contact event in South Africa and about the visitors' messages about the harm and dangers of technology?

Have you heard of this? Well, I have heard various claims and, you know, they told me to tell you this. Like I said, I don't evaluate anyone else's case, but it's just pure, simple wisdom, you know, that humans had better wise up. We cannot go on at this rate. When I was a kid, the population of Earth was half what it is today. And do we need to go another 40 years and double again and just keep doubling and doubling and doubling? These are limits. There are limits to growth you can't go on forever multiplying greater and greater and greater there's something um more conscious and more aware needs to be done so much of what's being extracted from the earth is finite

fossil fuels are fossil i mean are we going to go back into a big uh swamp age and and create a whole bunch more petroleum under the ground no no when they get it all pumped out of the ground uh they're gonna have to think well now what are we gonna lubricate our skateboards with or whatever, you know, it's, it's, there was a musician when I was a kid, the name of the album was After the Gold Rush. And that's what humanity's expansion across this planet has been, a gold rush, you know, charging headlong,

exploiting everything right and left and uh it's it's decimated so much of uh what was uh abundant and natural and uh we're gonna miss it john doe wants to know do you recall anything particular about the eyes of the beings? So both either the humanoid ones or the more human-like ones, their eye color? and things out, something unusual. And one thing that stands out to me concerning the grays was the stare. It seemed to be penetrating in a very uncomfortable way. But there were blinks at times. And a lot of people report no blinking, no eyelids, but there was definitely blinking in this case. Blinking with their own eyelids or with a film that came up and then disappeared like a lizard?

It was like their own eyelids. And, you know, on eyes that size, it was quite a pronounced sort of thing. Their eyes, is it primarily black or were you able to see a direction that they were looking because there's some white? I didn't see things like a pupil or anything like that. presume of course that they were looking at me because their faces were pointed towards me fox inda bush wants to know now that you've been through this experience do you have advice in case someone else is in this a similar situation let's take that two ways so one is that they're taken aboard okay and then also the post-abduction media frenzy so how what advice would you give yourself let's say let's just take it to be you what would you do differently

in both cases on the ship and then afterward well those are two completely different questions, but the decision to approach and therefore, you know, sort of trigger what happened was something I regret and wish I hadn't happened. how to respond to what happened afterwards. Afterwards, it was mostly negative. And over the years, it's evolved. There is a lot of more positive people recognizing things that they have themselves experienced, but also still some negative experience, but also still some negative, because

people who mistakenly consider it a threat to things they already believe. Have you met any people that have had similar experiences to you? Yes. Are any of them people who have public names that you can reference?

Well, I think we already went through this. Are there people that I'm going to vouch for without having investigated their case? And I'm sorry, I'm just not going to do that because then there's many, many people and some of them are, that, well, why not put me on that list? It's just way too political. Okay, how about this? What was similar about the experiences and what was different, without divulging who the people were in particular? Well, I would say the idea of being blasted by some form of energy that may have killed me would be a unique feature. But I've gone to a great deal of time to try to analyze what that was.

So much of what made them call it an abduction, rather than the term I now prefer, which is ambulance call, is that this blast of energy was an accident. call is that this blast of energy was an accident. Took years of research to find out that the area where we were there is one of the highest frequency of lightning strikes of any place in the United States. And that this, the presence of this craft or the field it generates may have triggered a discharge of energy with me as the ground wire, something kind of unexpected. And that sort of contributes to what were they doing there? Were they there to take one of us? One of the other crewmen, Alan, Dwayne, Steve.

No, I don't think that was part of the deal. I think, and this is pure speculation, that this high frequency of lightning strikes has to do with the fact that when lightning strikes the earth, crystals are formed that are not formed geologically. They're rare but quite exotic in terms of the properties that they are, you know, said to have. And it's called fulgurite. So could have been something along the lines of right so could have been something along the lines of um they're looking prospecting for vulgar right so you think the high density of lightning strikes is the precipitator of the ufos or that the us may be in that area because of the high frequency of lightning and the creation of these exotic crystals. Speculation, of course. I understand. I'm not saying I know this. I don't mind speculation, man. I'm a fan of it, personally. So Sixpool says, can Travis describe what the grays were wearing if any

what was the material made of can he discern any well that's it well um they um were wearing coveralls loose fitting coveralls of a We're wearing coveralls, loose fitting coveralls of an orange-brown color, soft velour, not shiny. I didn't pick up any details other than that. Do you happen to know how long the duration is that you remember inside the craft? Do you remember only a minute? that would just be an estimation the the conscious period was um you could you could you know take it off in terms of you know um minutes and hours or that sort of thing but certainly nothing that fills up five days. And that is, or was a blank for me for so long. What was the state of your body? Because I imagine that if you were not eating

for five days, you would look drastically different. Were you, do you feel like you were fed somehow? Must have been, according to medical tests, they say that if your body is feeding on itself that it generates what's called ketones and those were absent although uh it was evidently quite a bit of dehydration um i was weighed uh immediately the incident, as soon as my brother got me back to my mother's house. And then by the time I went into Dr. Kandel's office, bringing those same scales with me, uh, there was a recovery of at least five pounds. So, um, just from hydration, was a recovery of at least five pounds. So just from hydration, just probably hydration. I was very thirsty. That was a major point in me describing how I felt. A five pound difference from when you arrived naked, you're weighing yourself, correct? I wasn't naked. That's

Hollywood. But from the time I was recovered from the phone booth to the time I was in the doctor's office following the five pounds sounds quite significant. So I'm wondering if any of that difference was because of clothing change. Was there a difference in clothing between your initial measurement and then? Well, no, because I was weighed naked both times. So you just said that something was Hollywood, that the naked was only an artifact of Hollywood? Yeah. Yeah, they filmed a bunch of other nudity in that movie that didn't get used, fortunately. But it's just kind of one of those things that Hollywood

tends to do. I'm interested in a remake that doesn't resort to such devices. Okay, so, sorry, I want to make sure I'm understanding this. So, in Hollywood, they falsely presented you as naked on a scale?

Naked on the floor of the phone booth. I see. Okay, okay. But you were weighed naked. Yes. When I came back to the house, my brother removed the clothes, sealed them up in a sealed bag, and weighed me, and I changed clothes. and weighed me and I changed clothes. When you were scanned, were there any abnormalities? Someone here is asking if you had an x-ray and there was a device in you or a small piece. You mentioned that there was a grain. I mentioned the small calcified granuloma,

which is no longer there on any x-rays. Also, an actual brainwave scan. Barrow's Neurological Institute is where this was done. And this was where Muhammad Ali moved to Phoenix just to be near this hospital. And the technician was not told who I was. He wasn't attaching any significance to a description of what happened. I was actually put in there under a false name. So it was a double blinded examination and they found what was described. I still have the report as a bisynchronous alternating wave traveling from front to back and I have undergone subsequent

scans that did not show that so I'm thinking it could have just been an artifact of recent injury that was in the process of healing what's this wave what is the consequence of it what does it mean the bisynchronous alternating So both hemispheres were... done on people who might have been hit by lightning or maybe an electrician who stood up under a live wire or something like that, at least something of that nature to see if this kind of a pattern is a feature of certain types of injury or impact with large amounts of energy or force. Did they tell you anything else about that particular brainwave pattern? Here's an example. There's something called alpha waves, and then there's theta waves. I'm sure you've heard of this. And they correspond to different feelings of consciousness or different modes.

Like one is a more meditative mode. Another is more cognitive thinking, creative mode. So what's the significance of this wave that they found on you? Maybe none. But I'm just telling you that, you know, people say, what did the test reveal? And this is what came out. This technician had no idea what I'd been through and what I was being tested for. It was just something that he observed without being told to look for something of that sort. So it was just something that came up and maybe insignificant.

I mean, good grief. I don't know anything about EEGs. What if just being hysterical for five days, you know, could make you have an eeg of a certain characteristic but uh i don't know i'm just saying if there is any significance to that i'll have to go back and read that eeg again and see if they were referring to theta waves alpha waves any of that sort of thing do you have a pen and paper in front of you within arm's reach yeah remember i said that i love details do you mind showing me some

of the lines on the screen because as you were describing them i can't visualize what you're saying you're saying there's some lines and lines coming off but there were no markings to indicate certain positions well i'm no artist but uh this screen you saw it where within the ship uh it was mounted on the arm of the of. It's just long lines with short lines. But they didn't have numbers on each of the little short lines. And they would move in response to things I did. Yeah, I see it. But it didn't reveal any information to me.

So they moved in response to you. You didn't get the sense that that was a map of something else. It actually was congruent with your motion. So when you turned, the signals changed. Well, that's a possibility too. What else is common between your experience and some of the other people who you're not going to name, but the ones that you personally find credible, you said that there were some commonalities. So what's another one? Well, I had an experience when I was a small child.

I can't document it. My brothers and sisters remember this. I'm telling them that the time it happened, I was telling them this happened and they said, no, it was a dream. But I never confused any dream with reality or any such thing, never anything of this sort. So it was a very real experience in a single being that was like a gray. I didn't call it an alien. I just said it was a little man with a bald head and big eyes. And he was dressed in a black suit. And I thought that was interesting because I found out later that Betty

Hill's beings were dressed in black suits. It was nighttime. Were the lights off? Yeah, we were all sleeping. It was a huge house in Phoenix, cooled by evaporative coolers. So during the hottest part of the year, we would make bedroll bed rolls lay in the hallway

where this giant cooler came down the hallway and cooling us all off and so i woke up because i felt my legs being lifted someone had picked up the bottom of the blanket and that woke me up. It's not like, oh, I'm dreaming an alien is coming to. No, it was a small man. And I didn't know what was lifting me until I looked to see what was lifting me in this little guy. And I started to call out and he dropped and ran off. When you were young, you would describe it as a little man. Now, thinking back, is it the same type of entity that you saw on the ship, or do you not have a great recollection of it? I'd say it was very similar, if not the same, as the people on the ship.

A small man, bald head, very pale, chalky skin, huge eyes, and dressed in black. But I didn't call it an alien, never did. I just was insisting to this description to my brothers and sisters. And to this day, they remember me. The only time I ever said this really happened and they were saying it was a dream. But see, that's one of those stories that people are going to say, oh, he's just ad-libbing here. No, I don't have 20 witnesses here.

It's just something that happens. I'm not concerned with skeptics. I want to know a bit more about the commonalities we were talking about. So you just talked about your own experience again. Now, when you spoke with other people who have had similar experiences to yourself, what's similar is what I'm curious about. Is this going to get turned into Travis's endorsement of some cases and rejection of others no you don't have to mention any names well it's still you know it boils down to that eventually but uh you know there's definitely a connection that and a style of presentation and then recalling what happened and describing it. Other kinds of subtle sorts of things.

And I don't want to give anybody a list of things to add to their next story, but definitely certain things that ring a bell. And not just in the experience itself, not just in the experience itself not just in the experience itself but in the way they related it to people and the way people related to them there seems to be a commonality what do you mean in the way that they relate it is similar what do you mean i don't want to go there. Come on, man. I can't do that to people.

I was mercilessly pilloried and criticized and all this stuff. Well, that doesn't match this, doesn't match that. And it all come back to the facts. You don't even, you didn't even research my case. You know, people are making criticisms and analyzing what happened, and they don't even know what's been said and what actually happened. Like, you know, a debunker who says, well, Travis was never at that phone booth. He was always in his mother's cabin or something. If they do their research, duh,

they know that the operator listened in on the call and notified the sheriff. He sent people over there to take fingerprints. So there's all kinds of things where, oh, those guys were out there hallucinating on drugs. No, a law enforcement entity took samples from my body immediately afterwards, not one trace of any drug whatsoever. So these kinds of, it's easy to just wipe it away with the back of your hand. Seven people don't have the same hallucination. Detail, identical.

The idea that it was a hallucination induced by earthquake lights. You know, the rim there is a giant fault in the ground. So the theory that people were offering was that earthquake lights are what generated this blast of energy, which actually came out of me and went, why, to a craft? But anyway, it went through my brain and made me hallucinate. Well, the guys in the truck 90 feet away, they weren't touching the ground. And how could a blast of earthquake lights affect them?

And more importantly, why would all seven of us imagine the same thing? People are really reaching when they grab for these ways of trying to explain it away. But there's quite a variety to them. And we're serious. quite a variety to them in the worst areas. Juanita Grand wants to know, I recall him talking about the temperature and dryness of the air inside the craft. I would like to know if he's noticed anything else strange.

Now, obviously there's plenty strange, but something else that you haven't spoken much about, if not at all. Not really. Just I was feeling injured and so maybe the suffocating feeling came from that but um the the human looking being who took me out of there was wearing a helmet on his head so that was probably i think, to protect him from the atmosphere in there. Or maybe to avoid contaminating the interior of the craft.

I don't know. But it does suggest that perhaps that was the reason. It did feel immediately cooler and easier to breathe as soon as we got outside. Outside the initial room, whereas you could still be inside a larger craft? Outside the craft into the larger hangar room. See, to me, when I'm visualizing this, I only think in terms of craft. So I think in terms of this is a small craft inside a larger craft, but the way you're describing it is it's as if it's a building.

Well, it's a craft inside of a large building somewhere. It could be just a hangar on the ground somewhere. If you had to make a guess as to how large it was, how many feet away could you see or meters, how large would you characterize it? Well, before I quote a figure, I really ought to meditate on that a bit, figure out what the size would be. It was quite a bit larger. Big enough for these things to fly into. I would assume they flew in there. I didn't see them flying. I know you said you need to think about it some more.

More than four times the size of the initial place. Is that correct? Yeah. I'm a man of details travis more than 10 times i would say you know gotta be bigger than 200 feet you know if there's a couple of craft in there 40 feet in diameter uh that adds up to 80, but they're spaced by maybe 30. I'm just off the top of my head saying a figure like that. MJ Jumps wants to know,

before you die, will you reveal if you've had any other contact with ETs or UFOs? Well, that would be like admitting that i had it so that's a loaded question sneaky way around the question how about this is there more to come from travis walton yes yeah i think so someone wants to know about high strangeness it's this term that keeps coming up over and over, which I'm sure you're familiar with. Have you experienced any high strangeness after your event? Yeah, but it wasn't witnessed by multiple witnesses, so, well.

Now see, I sense such reservation on your part, and I imagine that's because you've been excoriated to such a degree that you don't want, that it hurts you to be criticized even a little bit or at least for people to look at you with skeptical eyes is that the main reason that you don't like to talk about what can't be corroborated yeah i i'm interested in making people understand that this is a real phenomenon that this really happened in anything like what happened to me that one night while no one else but my family knew. To people that want to find a reason to disbelieve, they're going to think of that as an embellishment or some sort of an attention getter. It's something that really happened. And the whole family verifies it,

but that's not enough witnesses to qualify in today's world. What other items did you see on the craft? So you mentioned a rod that was a glass that you took and you started swinging. Well, those other instruments were not anything I would recognize. It didn't look like I'm familiar with tools and some medical instruments. I was actually eventually certified as an EMT. I took the state test on midwifery.

And it was offered by the state of Arizona to bring all of the lay midwives in, you know, many who had been practicing under doctors for years into an official licensing situation. So the offer was come in, take this test. And it was just a spur of the moment thing. I didn't plan it. I only heard about it a couple of days before the test went in and I got the second highest score out of the whole group. But maybe it's a genetic thing. I don't know. My father was a doctor. Actually an obstetrician. Can you draw some of what you saw in

terms of the devices that you can't recognize or you can't place as common? Just a quick glance. What's the biggest thing here? What can I use for a weapon? That's all. It was a thing that looked kind of like a...

I'm sorry. This is that time of day when I get robocalls. Do you mind turning off the ringer, putting it on silent? Okay, so Cloud in Seattle wants to know, has Travis ever tried CE5 since the incident? And if so, what were his takeaways? What is CE5? What's that? I don't know, because people keep mentioning CE5. So those in the comments can let me know what CE5 is, then I can let Travis know.

So I probably didn't try it. Is that a type of hypnosis? The reason why it's taken me a while to come up with questions is because not only am I reading some of the audience questions, but I want to ask you more details about these beings but I don't want you to be on the defensive because I'm not a I'm not a debunker I'm not a skeptic I'm on your side or at least I'm not against you I appreciate that but you know the audience is huge and anybody that wants to take something and turn it into something that's not, there's actually few and far between, but there's people like that.

Do you think that these people, the ones with helmets that calmed you, that were there, or at least you think were there to calm you, do you think that they walk among us? Have you seen any strange people? I actually said that, that they would pass in a crowd. You wouldn't go, whoa, there's that kind of odd-looking robotic human or something like that. No, I think that they would pass in a crowd.

Have you seen any people, but you said that they would pass in a crowd have you seen any people but you said that they gave you a strange feeling at least with their eyes it wasn't there's something not right about their eyes have you encountered any people like that i never could put my finger on exactly what it was color the way they the pupil constricts or whatever i don't know it's just something a little unusual about that so ce5 is a term describing the fifth category of close encounters with extraterrestrial intelligence characterized by mutual bilateral communication rather than unilateral contact so did you communicate with them well i stick to the stuff I can document.

So nothing to report there. I know that's disappointing. People love that. There's so many people that have had an experience and they'll expound on whatever. How do these alien creatures feed themselves themselves have you had any thoughts on that this question comes from Henry Baum that's an interesting

question people would love to know that but I didn't see their kitchen and we weren't not in any sort of a situation on how I was fed if i was or how they feed themselves i don't know that's just a complete unknown okay david reed says first of all travis respect you for sticking with your story i myself have witnessed a ufo in mallorca in september 1995 i've only discussed it with my wife. Question, considering

how long it took you to come to terms with your experience, do you think that the human race is ready to accept for some time now that we've been observed by technologically advanced intelligence? I do think that humans are getting closer and closer to that. This whole big lead up to a big release of information in Congress was sort of a letdown. It wasn't as forthcoming as it was promised, but the fact that it existed at all is a major step forward and um basically to have official channels acknowledge that there is something there that isn't ours and uh um whether they just uh their conscience got to and they decided to come clean and tell us, I don't think that's the case. It was just a matter of the evidence is piling up too high to rely on ridicule and dismissing the witnesses was not reducing their credibility.

It was reducing the government's credibility. reducing the government's credibility. So they, you know, finally acknowledge, yes, there's things we can't explain in terms of conventional, whatever. So that was a step forward. And, you know, it's interesting, it was kind of a social engineering kind of a thing. engineering kind of a thing, that when these announcements were made, they came late on a Friday. And that's normally what they do when they want something to be out there, but to get a minimum of attention. It sort of gets ignored until the next news cycle. And by Monday, there'll be a whole pile of other things to divert attention.

So it doesn't, it's a soft bombshell. Going back to your childhood, you said that there was this alien, or at least a little man, you weren't sure what it was at the time, and it was wearing black. Now, the ones on this ship were wearing a light blue, if I recall. What's that material? Is it? No, no. Orange is brown. Okay. So they're wearing orange slash brown. What type of material is it? Could you see that they're wearing clothing? For example, with me, you could see a bit of a shadow from a lighter.

It was extremely tight fitting, but you were able to tell it was clothing because it was different than their skin color. It was loose fitting and sort of billowy a little bit but um uh weeviless i didn't see uh grain in a fabric it's more like velour but uh i was riveted on the eyes i wasn't thinking about you know what are these clothes made out of or that kind of thing you know know what are these clothes made out of or that kind of thing you know uh all of us think wow if we were in that kind of an opportunity to you know learn these things that's the sort of thing we'd be uh um i'm sorry i i tried to turn this thing off but it just uh that's all right that's all right that's right hello moto which is what it normally does when i turned okay that's all right vox vesper one i don't, did you at any point during your...

Oh, I'm going to stick this thing under the mattress. Sure. Did you at any point during your abduction experience have a feeling of ecstasy? So this comes from Vox Vesper. No. No, it was terrifying and painful. But I was injured, you know, so it doesn't have anything to do with trying to enjoy the experience. Tim Yusabov wants to know, could you talk more about what the ship lighting was at the other facility?

I assume he means when you entered into the larger room. I assume he means when you entered into the larger room. Well, looking like gentle sunlight, nothing to describe is just normal lighting, normal colors of looking at my self and things around me. There wasn't any unusual cast of things. Randall, Mattel wants to know, do you think the beings you encountered were just another aspect of the craft itself? I'm not sure what the question means, but

I don't understand the question were the craft generating beings is that what they're saying yes like projections or perhaps somehow these beings are integrated within the craft was there a difference between there's obviously a difference between the craft and the beings but did you get a sense that there was an intimate tie between them? Well, I didn't get any feeling other than pain and fear. Sorry, I wasn't all tuned in and spiritual, but I... Those kinds of things could exist, but I wasn't experiencing that way.

Jason Brown wants to know, please ask Travis if there was any physical evidence in the area the craft interacted with him. I recall you talked about tree rings, but what else? Yes, definitely. There was initially a magnetic readings that were taken, scanning across the clearing, taking measurements and charting it all out. And the report was that there was a polarity reversal in the direction

the craft had departed. I never got to see this evidence. I would love to. I believe the ufologists that were taking the reading were from something. No, I can't say for sure who it was, but it was recognizable names in ufology. But there was also a report later that summer, a volunteer in the fire watch reported that there was a government team that came through taking magnetic readings on the ground. And she just found that curious because normally such readings would be taken from an instrument suspended under an airplane.

But they were doing it directly on the ground in the area. on the ground in the area. Maybe no connection at all, but she saw the team and asked them what they were doing. I could go back and ask her more about what they might have told her because she was a reporter for the local paper. If you still are in contact with her,

it'd be great if you could. And then you could just email me also. Okay, Dynamite, contact with her, it'd be great if you could. And then you could just email me also. Okay. Dynamite biz quits wants to know, ask him if the gravity was the same or different when you woke up. So on the craft, did you notice that you were able to run quicker or slower? Good question. I felt heavy. Like I could barely make myself move. It took the adrenaline of panic to be able to do the things I did. But I took, mistook or whatever, interpreted that weakness to be something to do with my injury. something to do with my injury. The improvement in my energy level and everything when I got outside the craft could indicate that there was heavier gravity generated inside that craft for some reason.

If the beings in their home planet have a heavier gravity, it would also contribute to a denser atmosphere. More of my speculation after 40 years. A denser atmosphere perhaps cutting down on the amount of light reaching the surface of the planet, which might explain the large eyes. Large eyes have got to mean either some kind of an environment where light is limited, I would think. Are they nocturnal? Maybe that would be the reason.

But if they aren't nocturnal, then perhaps the large eyes come from living where the atmosphere is heavy, denser, and less light reaches the surface. Did you notice any strangeness or anything abnormal about how the aliens walked? So firstly, did you see the greys walk? Yes, and it was just a real quick light scurrying. They actually, you know, when I was made contact with one of them with the back of my arm, it was a lot lighter than I expected. It fell back very easily. So they just scurry?

I know that some people say that they move, they shuffle like cicada or like some insect. Did you notice any strange movement? No, I didn't get any insect-like impressions at all. Was there a difference between how the greys moved versus the more human-like beings? The human-looking ones moved like humans, and the greys just moved like very light, quick beings. Considering the UFO radiation could have killed you,

have you ever thought that they grabbed you to heal you? This one comes from Benito Sintizzi. Yeah, definitely, because the evidence of radiation in the trees would suggest that I would myself have been exposed to a large amount. And that could have been part of what the treatment was, or maybe quite a lot of it. I don't know. And one other thing is that the crewman who was sitting to my left,

when I got out of the truck, I left the door open. And he did develop skin cancer on his right forearm, which would have been probably the most exposed part of his whole anatomy. But again, it could be a coincidence. Can you talk some more about how this has affected your view on death and God? This comes from iJazzSwiadj. on death and God? This comes from iJazz Swiaj. Well,

if you were a really super highly technological civilization and had understanding of life processes far beyond anything that we have, you would think one of the priorities would have been to eliminate disease, especially aging. to eliminate disease, especially aging.

So that's a speculation on my part, but I would think that perhaps that's an indication that they're extremely long-lived and maybe even long-lived enough to tolerate years of flight to get here, if that were necessary. What do you make of Callie Waldrop, who said that you concocted an abduction story? And I'll just read this quote. I happened across your, referring to Michael Shermer, your assessment of Travis Walton's alleged abduction aboard a UFO in 1975. Your suspicion that it was a hoax is completely correct. I know. You can respond to this shortly. Travis and I were in junior high school back together back in the early 60s, and he was constantly dreaming up schemes to deceive folks that a UFO was visiting.

I haven't seen him in decades, and I reminded him of that in 2006 via email. He changed the subject I found the online bio suggesting that we weren't in the same grade school we're the same age but his bio lists in five so there's various assertions there how would you respond to that well like I say people who knew you are eager to say i've got the inside story well he's got some amazing tales um himself he was my best friend and uh it was actually his idea to put up a hot air balloon or something. But he became an FBI agent.

And the only contact I've had with him was years ago. And he was describing how he was basically ducking and dodging around the planet to avoid being assassinated in connection with his previous work his previous job i don't know maybe it's true sounds kind of wild though but uh he's definitely exaggerating anything that was said between us uh like i said people love to get attention i know this guy you know i'll tell you the inside story if you know he's not in a position to add anything positive so it's great to attack your best friend but uh whatever you two had a falling out no we just um you know i moved up to a different city you called him your best friend you mean prior or even now during our during our our junior high years you know we hung out

together all the time but uh i guarantee you ufos were not a constant topic of conversation you mentioned something about a hot air balloon um this is something he's saying that that i, but I only remember him suggesting such a thing. But it's terrible. Somebody would come out there and attack you like that. Do you think that he just wants fame himself or money or what? Or money or what? Just like I said, you know, I'm the guy that's going to, I got the inside story. I know this person, you know, it's like the guy who says I called him first before I called my family. It's in that case, not attempting to do any harm, just to attach yourself to something that's got a lot of attention. I mean, there were three or four girls that I had dated who had some stories to tell when everybody's talking about that guy

and things that weren't true. And this email communication he references in 2006, he said he brought it up to you. I'm unsure exactly what he's referring to i assume he means that you were quote-unquote trying to deceive and so on but then you change the subject do you know what he's referring to do you recall this oh kelly waldron i'll just give you the quote he said i'm actually reminded i reminded him of this referring to what we just spoke about in 2006 via email and he simply changed the subject, not wanting to crack his golden egg, I suppose. That's what Kelly said.

What I said was, I remember you had an idea like that. He was accusing me of an idea. But, like I say, it's the same thing, you know. He's using my prior friendship with him to elevate himself here. Does he in any way speak to seven people passing police lie detector tests? Does he speak to the effect of radiation on tree growth? Does he, you know, any of those kinds of things? The guy's an FBI agent or a former FBI agent.

And so he should resort to evidence and the facts of the case. Let's address the facts. When you can't address the facts, attack the person. So that's what's happening. Does it hurt you? Because he's a former friend of yours. I imagine that if that was me, I would be not only offended, but

saddened. Or are you so used to it now? Well, of course, it's sad. You know, and i'd always thought about contacting him because i'd heard some the story second hand from somebody that i worked with at the paper mill that he had said something like that and uh kind of uh fell any in on the details. Don't be jumping to conclusions, guy.

But apparently he has to each his own. Eve Clancy wants to know, do you believe yourself to have been abducted more than once? It's possible. it's possible but you know um in any other case it would have been something where you know memories are blocked or something of that nature where you're unconscious bill bow baggins wants to know does travis think the recent uaps are related to the craft in his experience or is maybe a different phenomenon so there's been plenty of uap disclosure recently there's a question i think that the recent uap disclosures the ufos associated with them are

similar if not the same to the one that abducted you or the ones that you've seen? Oh, as far as, you know, these various reports, I don't think that the typical flying saucer is necessarily the exclusive form of these ships.

Some are spherical, some are triangular. There's the tic-tac shape that the Navy has filmed. So there's a variety of shapes. There's other shapes that are more hard to describe, long, thin things. thin things. Okay, we're going to wrap in about five minutes, so people, please as you're asking the questions, just type in all

caps and please at me so that I can see them easily. Travis, you also talked about a low rumble as well as a high-pitched noise when the craft came near you. Do you mind repeating and expanding upon it? Well, it was a frequency that's so low, you felt it more than heard it simultaneously.

And then a really high, high pitch to it that, and I'm just talking about the ends of the frequency of the spectrum of sound um you also mentioned when the craft was near there was some wind uh wind yeah the trees were moving as it or perhaps it was when the craft went away your friends reported that the trees oh oh the craft that left me off uh created a stir in the air as it passed some small limbs close by it but that wasn't what you experienced that's what your friends told you afterward? Oh, right. When the craft dropped you off,

you were able to look and see it leave. No, when I was dropped off, I was the only person there. Well, I assume your friends may have been in too much of a panic to know if there was any strange activity when the craft left, such as extreme wind or a special sound.

There were other witnesses that saw the craft depart that reported it to the sheriff. A man who said his job was military intelligence, deer hunting with his wife. Still have the... See, back in those days, we didn't have cell phones. A lot of this communication came in actual physical letters. And another one that came both to me and the sheriff describing seeing the craft depart from closer to Black Canyon Lake, which is near Turkey Springs. near Turkey Springs.

John Doe wants to know, ask if he thinks it's strange that his buddy had the idea of making up a UFO story when they were young and then it actually happens to him. So how do you respond to that? Do you think it's strange? Do you think it's a coincidence? Do you think it's not coincidental? I think it's an opportunity. It's an opportunity. Now I don't know if he had to go hide his name and travel around the world to avoid being assassinated by the FBI. That sounds like a pretty wild story myself, you know, but maybe it's true. You know, some of those characters up there are pretty unethical, to put it mildly.

Buck Fanks wants to know, did it look like the other beings were communicating with one another in some way, such as did they look at one another? I know they didn't speak, but did you sense any form of talking, any form of communication? They did move simultaneously. I didn't see any communication or hand signal or anything. So it was also pretty apparent that I was getting ready to attack them, fight my way past them to get to the door. And so they turned simultaneously and departed. Freedom Loving Fool wants to know, Travis, could you see outside the craft? Could you tell if you were underwater or aerial?

No, I couldn't tell. I could not see outside, whether I was underground, underwater, or outside the atmosphere. There was no window of that sort. Do you think the UFO phenomenon has been used for psychological warfare? What do you think of the threat narrative that's being pushed in mainstream? This one comes from Freedom Fighter. threat narrative that's being pushed in mainstream? This one comes from Freedom Fighter. Well, I think our governments, world governments for that matter, take advantage of certain things that occur in order to shape the behavior of populations. That's pretty common. And in today's world, they have a wealth of data to tap into because X happens and they almost instantly are able to gather information on huge numbers of people. So they can predict

the outcome of certain things and measure it in ways that gives them a power people are truly underestimating do you get many people saying convince me convince me of the fact that you were abducted i don't care you know uh people are willing to listen i will give them the facts if they want to say oh i don't believe't believe this, no matter what, you know, you know, you, you, you claim you saw a UFO 20 years before that, you know, okay, fine. That totally disqualifies me. If anybody sees a UFO, just say, all right, scratch me off the list. Anything that happens from here on, no credibility, no nothing. And that includes not just seeing a UFO, anything. Seeing a beating in the park or something of that nature.

Well, come on. This is a guy who said he saw a UFO. This is a guy who just thinks he saw aliens forget him you know really there's a part of me that you know has often thought just walk away from all this and just you know what would you do don't talk about it anymore in your fantasies when you think about walking away are you going to an island and then drinking from coconuts what are you doing uh just refusing to respond to inquiries, requests for interviews, appearances. And that should be enough for a while. They're not going to get anything out of me. I've got nothing to say.

Dynamite Bizquits wants to know, do any pictures that you've seen look like what you saw? So have you seen movies that closely resemble the Greys or have you seen images? bizarre described and authorized a model with a plastic model with the Terrasters Corporation is the closest to the craft we encountered in the woods.

But like I said, these craft have many different shapes and forms and if you see more than one, you're a crazy lunatic anyway. Have they done any testing on the clothing that you had for radiation no uh once the bag got tore open and it was considered contaminated that um i even kept them for a while in in shed, and they got further contaminated after that. So you still have them, but they're just contaminated?

Well, I did for a while. I don't know where they are now. Stefan Exodus wants to know, Are you amazed or surprised that even after all these years and that you've never changed your story, that people still ask you about your abduction? Well, it grows and grows and grows you know more and more inquiries from far off places some i've never heard of some i got to check the map to see where that is but um um it's kind of the purpose to continue to talk about it is to let people know simply that it's real. These giant black triangles, I saw one with other witnesses, 15 or 20, actually, at least. I would love to go back and get the addresses, contact information of these people and see if any of them took a picture.

Because my son said, Dad, Dad, should we pull over and take a picture? I go, no, no, keep going. You know, I was surprised that I had so much PTSD after that much time to be scared to pull over and take a picture. I sure wish I had. had but certainly you know 15 20 other people right porting in to one website um ufo stalker.com i believe is the name of it uh they would get their addresses and see if one of them just at least one took a photo is this the same triangle when you were with your wife and your wife was pregnant? Girlfriend, yes.

Someone asked, and please, if I'm mispronouncing this name or I'm missaying it, rewrite it. Someone asked a while ago, did someone named Steve Rear, not Greer, Steve Ride, Steve Reed examine your girlfriend? I don't know the doctor's name. I was in the room. I saw the ultrasound, but I don't know her doctor's name. I'm sure she knows. Roger Lear. No.

Yes, maybe. Is Roger Lear the doctor? No, he was not the medical doctor who examined her. He was involved in researching the case later. when she passed the cord and the placenta, that was time for the medical people, the scientists to come in and examine. And this claim that it was an alien or that I said it was an alien, it's just a damn lie. I've never said any such thing, but see, again,

there's a people who are in a position to make up a story and become an important part of something that's worldwide news. So, yeah, he said one claim was that I killed the baby, that I performed an abortion on this woman. Total lie. You know, I am totally anti abortion. You know, I am totally anti-abortion. I don't care who knows it. And I was trained as a midwife. As I said, second highest score out of 40 people. I would never in this world dream of performing an abortion. That's just I've delivered a number of babies.

mean an abortion that's just uh i've delivered a number of babies uh but uh the claim that i you know killed this baby because it was half alien was just a wild claim gets attention that's what it's that's what it's all about something that got the news is out there get my two cents worth in look at me look at me i I knew Travis in the past, you know. I dated him. I was his friend or whatever. Travis, where can people find out more about you? And what's next? TravisWalton.com

And what's next for you? um a um big budget remake of fire in the sky it's their idea and uh i'm all for it because i'd love to straighten out a few things you know there's some misconceptions about what happened people have come to based on the movie. I think the movie was a huge accomplishment in terms of breaking down people's resistance to the idea that it could happen because they were sort of vicariously able to live it themselves. But I always try to warn people, don't treat it as a documentary. It was entertainment, and Hollywood does that sort of thing. So I'm going to try to keep, retain the script approval this time around. And Tim has one last question. Travis, do you recall seeing any symbols, signs, or writings on the walls, floors, ceilings,

etc.? Good question, but no. No symbols of any kind. No numbers, no letters, or anything that would suggest such a thing. All right, man. Take care and have a great night. Well, thank you. The discussion with Travis has now concluded. And there's a five minute addendum with Amjad Hussein, who has sponsored this podcast via his company, Algo. We're cutting right into the middle of a discussion we had on the topic of UFOs. I wasn't sure. Should I continue going down this path? And you said that you were interested in UFOs.

What's your interest in them? Yeah, no. First of all, one thing that I want to say is that the way you approach these topics and connect with people, you have a way to connect at a deeper human level. So that definitely is a gift that you have. That is how I got attracted to you and your podcast and that genuine curiosity, intellectual honesty, and going deeper. And that was and remains to be my excitement about you and the brand

and the gift, I would say, that you bring to the universe. My fascination with UFOs just come from, I am curious, and quite some time ago, you know, I watched this Carl Sagan movie, Contact, and I, since then, you know, have been thinking about that are there intelligent life elsewhere and whatnot. And then for a while, I was not very serious about the entire UFO phenomenon and whatnot. the entire UFO phenomenon and whatnot. But when some serious minded people who have other professional lives and careers who were not out there hunting for UFOs

like this Navy commander, Dave Furwer, I might be butchering his last name. When he started talking about his observations and when they were on those missions off of the coast of San Diego, I started saying to myself that, look, there must be something to it. He has absolutely nothing to gain, no reasons to lie. He's so rational minded. He's a trained, trained Navy pilot with all the training. And he has this training to keep his mind together in extreme circumstances. So then for him to observe something, there must be something to that. So that is kind of how I got started into that. And then from there, I took it upon myself just to read everything that is out there, good, bad, in between, putting my judgment aside. in between putting my judgment aside.

And then I also learned in that process that in North America, ufology is a religion almost, a new age religion as well, where around different phenomena or different sightings, people have developed, you know, culture and curts and rituals and communities and societies and it seems very sort of correlated with how, you know, other ideas or micro religions or communities develop.

So I just found that very fascinating that how the ufology community is very protective of their ideas and how they come together. Quite interestingly, and totally unrelated to the topic of ufology, there is these days this Bitcoin community and they are very protective of the Bitcoin religion

and the Bitcoin ideas and all that stuff. And if you ask questions, they attack you. They are very, very protective of that sort of thing. So I just find it interesting to see how these communities develop. So there is no like, you know, deep answer as to how I got into UFOs, but I just, you know, it piques my interest and it would be awesome to find out that there are other, you know, beings other you know beings you know other forms of consciousness and can we

learn something from them those types of things i have heard others talk about that uh probably if there is a phenomenon there is an encounter we are encountering some alien technology or their creations versus alien themselves and the argument is that if we send a probe out there and whatnot, it's very likely that somebody is going to first run into a technology that humans send out is going to first run into a technology that humans send out or our space junk or what have you. But no, it was just an intellectual curiosity when I saw those Navy folks talking about it. They said, no, there must be something to it.

I shouldn't just, just because I don't know anything about it and the topic sounds too French to observe, let's just totally discount it without looking into it. So I just started studying it. That was sort of my entry into studying UFO. And then I found that all kinds of people, from scientists to religious philosophers and people in between, you know, are part of that, are part of that community. So what are your conclusions now? Are you still formulating them? No, there are no, there are no conclusions.

I think a lot of people would say people who are a lot more scientifically minded, like even you were talking to a few months ago with Avi Loeb, and there are many others like Avi who, you know, Avi is open to ideas of, okay, open to ideas of, okay, Oumuamua probably is not nitrogen, frozen nitrogen or some other thing. It is probably some alien junk or alien technology or whatever. So he's open to, I mean, he has put his career at risk in that sense. But even he said, nah, when you asked him that question regarding UFOs, he said, no, there is, there is no evidence for it, you know, we should scientifically study it. So people who are a lot more scientifically minded, even the likes of Avi, they are not very sort of, you know, UFO friendly. They don't think that the evidence that is out there convinces them enough.

So I always try to say, well, can I, you know, look at what people who are a lot more disciplined and smarter about than I am, what do they think? So I yet have to find real professional career scientists who think that that is the plausible explanation. They think other explanations, you know, are plausible and possible and that kind of a thing. So I am still looking, studying, searching. I also think about it that has it to do something with consciousness and psychedelic type experiences where people, you know, when they are under the influence of BMT molecules or other things like that, they say, oh, you know, I went there and I went here and I met so-and-so and whatnot. And, and then, you know, is there something like a shared consciousness or something like that, where there is a network for conscious beings to come together?

Because physics is physics, even in the U.S. Navy sort of sightings that, hey, you know, those objects, they were defying our physical reality. Well, maybe that means they, you know, are holograms or images of some sort or what have you. There is definitely something to it. So I think it needs to be just studied a lot more. And that is what I would say. So my quest as a student, as a lay person, continues. Thank you so much for watching.

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