Therapuss with Jake Shane - Session 133: Paul W. Downs

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

I give, lowkey, REALLY good advice... Download the Alo Wellness Club app for FREE at alowellnessclub.com/jake Thank you to Booking.com for sponsoring today’s episode! Find exactly what you’re Booking for at ⁠https://www.booking.com Tell Me What's Wrong at ⁠ passthatpuss.com Follow Paul! https://www.instagram.com/paulwdowns/?hl=en Follow Me! Instagram | @passthatpuss TikTok | @octopusslover8 Listen to "THERAPUSS" Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1BHDdC0OVuHqZ706FobfOF ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapuss-with-jake-shane/id1723626781⁠⁠ Amazon Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/93117357-1f23-46e1-8f26-88f5182a68b8/therapuss-with-jake-shane⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Try the Creamy Parmesan and Bacon Quarter Pounder today or treat yourself to your Dreamburger lineup with our original Quarter Pounder with cheese or Quarter Pounder BLT. At participating McDonald's restaurants in Canada, product availability varies by restaurants. Hi Pussies, welcome back to Therapus. I am in Paris right now, and so that's why this is on an iPhone. This week on Therapist, we have Paul Down to Created in and Stars in one of my favorite shows on television, which just ended.

Hacks on HBO Max. It's, if you haven't seen it, please watch it. It is genuinely one of the best shows I've ever seen in my life. It's so funny, heartfelt, it's incredible. And he is just the most incredible, wonderful human of him. human of all time. And so I'm really excited for you guys to watch it. In terms of life updates for me, I am finally on a European sleep schedule, not that anyone fucking ass or cared, but I finally woke up at like 10 a.m. today and I wasn't tired. So that was really good. I survived the Paris heat wave. Like,

like it was like this sun was like passing me on the sidewalk. Like I legitimately could not leave my room. I've never, like the streets were empty. I've never experienced heat like that my entire life. You guys know I fucking hate heat because, as I always say, you can always add layers. You can't rip your own skin off. I struggled with the heat a lot. Also, my Shake and Train with Jake Shane series on the Allo Wellness app is out. Now, I had so much fun filming it. We filmed it in Sandra Pei on the Allo Yacht.

It was like genuinely one of the most insane experiences of my entire life. It's four classes. They're 10 minutes each. two strength training, two Pilates. So you could like, if you only have 10 minutes, you can do one of them. If you only have 20 minutes, you can do two of them. And if you have the whole time, you can do all four of them and make it like a full workout. Like, it's really, really amazing.

Like, I've been doing it while I've been away. I tried to make it funny. I tried to make it like you're listening to a podcast, but like also working out, if you know what I mean. But it's great. I'm really proud of it. And I love Louis Bianca. And you guys know I love Allo. So check it out now on the Allo Wellness Club app.

But, yeah, Paul, I love you. Puzzies, enjoy the episode. I love you so much. Well, we are filming this on a very special day. It is a special day. A very sad day. It is a sad day. It is the finale of hacks, the series finale.

Final episode. So weird. That you're a part of, my castmate. I know, thank you. Yes. Oh, you're welcome. That was the first time I was ever on television. Oh, I love that.

I love it when we break talent, you know? You do break talent, though. We break talent, though. Hannah had never acted before. Meg had never acted before. Carl had done theater and had done, he had done one film, but it was their first acting job on television. Yeah, Robbie. Robbie, yeah.

A lot of people. A lot of people. Honestly, it is one of the great joys of the show is being like, here's people that we find so funny. Hey, world, watch them shine. Like, it is really one of the best parts of the show. I know that sounds chugie or whatever, but it's truly, it truly is. I don't think that's shuggy. Well, it's earnest.

I think that's why hacks became hacks. Totally. Like there's no hacks without Meg. There's no hacks without Hannah. No. Like, you know. Yeah. No hacks without you.

There's no hacks without. Thank you. Without you, social media, girlie. Social media girl. I remember we were on set and Paul was like, do you want a name? And I said, which is so funny. I think that's like the, that is the comedy instinct. That's right.

Yeah. I was like, I know it's funny. Because we wrote it before we were like, Jake would be amazing. You know? So we had written the part. And then we were like, do we change the name? But I'm glad we stuck with social media girly. I'm glad we stuck with it too.

That was some of the best days ever. You were so good and you know what To start Like thrown into the deep end with Gene Smart And for us to be like improvise That is so intimidating But you didn't seem scared at all You were so natural, you were so good

I didn't know any of the phrases that you guys were doing You were like in all I didn't know what in all was Oh my God So you guys were like can you give us an all And I was like Depends on what you mean Yeah I was like Is that something with full frontal

I can't do that Yeah I was like what is that Now I know all the terms Yeah all the terms That's good That's good. Was Gene? Well, I have a few questions.

Okay. Hey, that's why I'm here is to answer your questions. Is it true that, so you guys knew the final, what you wanted the final episode to be when you pitched it. Yes. Yeah, we pitched that. I mean, I guess this is airing after. So yeah, we pitched the whole, she gets a diagnosis. And she is someone who really curates her life.

Right. She really wants to control her image and her material and all of that. So we were like, this is someone who wants to call her own light. She wants to go out on top. So the idea of. The idea of like right to life and ending your life with dignity when you want to was a thing that we wanted to explore. And we, you know, the show was at its heart about these two people that have different opinions and they grapple with things. And the grist is like what makes them both better.

And we were like, well, what the ultimate one is life and death. So we pitched that, yeah, in 2019. Wow. Yeah. Where did the idea for hacks originate? Jen, Lucia, Jen Statsky, Lucia and Yellow and I. were on a road trip. I was filming a Netflix special, actually, Netflix.

The characters, you can click over after this. And, you know, they are the funniest people I know. They're like my inspiration, my muses, and I wanted them to come with me to punch it up. Because it was a, I was, we were going to a monster jam in Maine. And I. Monster Jam. Yeah, you know, like Big Trucks.

Big trucks. Yeah. Why were you going to Monster Jam? Because I had a character, Jasper Kooch, who, whose catchphrase is, Big Drugs. And I was going to like, it was actually crazy that they did this. I contacted them.

I was like, I'm filming a Netflix special as Jasper Kooch. I contacted them with a fake email. I was like, can I come and warm up the crowd? And they were like, sure. They gave me the mic. I got in a stadium. I made them do a call in response when I say big, you say trucks. I made them, we went back and forth.

Did they just buy into it entirely? Yes, but I could have been like, I got a bomb. You know, I could have been anything. But they were absolutely like, here you go. And so anyway, they came with me to help me, you know, just to punch it up and like pitch me things to say as we filmed this. And on that road trip, we were talking about female comedians who, like, didn't have the same opportunities that a lot of their male counterparts had. And we were like a show that's like a dark mentorship between one of these comedians and like a young cool comedy kid.

Because we also came from UCB. And, you know, we were also in the alt comedy scene. And there was a thing about cool comedy versus like uncool comedy, which interested us. And so we were like, that's a cool thing to explore. And we wrote an email to each other being like assistant. show. Vegas stand-up gets an assistant and, like, tortures her. And it just, like, was born there.

But on that day, we were like, that would be a really good show. That would be a show I want to watch, you know. Was it always Gene? At that point, and Gene will say this. Gene's like, I was too young at that point. Because that was 2015. Right. She's like, I was way too young.

But it was, like, an amalgamation of Lucille Ball and Joan Rivers and Phyllis Diller and Elaine May. And there's, like, a lot of Debbie Reynolds. There's like a lot of showbiz legends that we kind of like borrowed from to make the character. And so it wasn't anybody specifically. We didn't think about an actress. But when we finally got it, you know, picked up and we were thinking about who would be perfect, there was a really short list. And Gene was the only meeting we took.

Oh, no way. Yeah, because she was like, I mean, she'll say this, but she was like, I wanted to be a stand-up. When I was 12, I dressed as Phyllis Diller. She's like, it's crazy. The script is for me. Yeah. And we were like, great. We think you're perfect.

for it. So, yeah, it was really wild. So I was the first person attached because we wrote Jimmy for me. Right. And Gene was the second. Wow. And then? The only meeting we had. That's incredible.

It's like Kismet. Yeah. So was Broad City still on TV when you guys were? Yes. When we pitched it, we had written the final season and we may have been shooting the final season when we pitched it, but it was basically when we knew that that series was coming to an end that we pitched. What feels different?

about this series coming to an end, than Broad City coming to an end? Well, you know, Broad Cities and was really Abby and Alana decided, you know, that they were like, we want to go out on top and they wanted to end it. And we then, in this situation, did the same thing. But it's different because we, it's like our baby, you know?

Yeah. All of these characters we birthed in a way. And so it's really weird to send it off and say goodbye, especially because people have, responded so well. People love the show and it's so nice to hear that and it feels crazy in a time when it's hard to make comedy. And I just mean, I don't mean it's like hard to say things because I don't believe in that. I think you can, you know, I think that's not the right. I'm not doing that thing. But I do think like, you know, fewer and fewer being made. So it does feel crazy to be like,

oh, we're going to, we're going to go out and end it now because people want us to keep going. So it does feel crazy, but I think it's much harder. This one's much harder. This one's much harder. Right. Because this one was, yeah, this was like your decision. Yeah. It was like your Deborah decision. Literally. It's so, yeah, we are, we are the Debra's in this scenario. Yes. Yeah. Do you have a, well, you just spoke about like alt comedy versus like cool comedy. What, like, I've never heard it described. Like, I know like all comedy is like what Meg does where it's like, what's going on. Yeah. But like I'm laughing. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yes. That is, yes. But I think like, even the UCB to me is alt you know it was basically like there are some really traditional

stand-up places like and again this is just my assessment but there's the laugh factory there's the comedy store there's places where um veteran comedians do their stuff and then there's there were places at least at the time in new york there was like the creek in the cave there were like it wasn't the comedy seller you know it was like smaller weird venues sometimes it was like UCB was in the basement of a grocery store. It was beneath the Gristides. Yeah. They have like a beneath the Gristides.

It was beneath the Gristidis. I once had bought so high in a Gristidis and my knees buckled and I fell and I fainted almost. Oof. Yeah. Okay. And I didn't smoke for two years after that. Wow. Wow.

But you're back. Yeah, I'm back. I need to stop though because I had like a moment out of my body yesterday where I ran into someone on my way to CVS and I was talking to them and I was like I feel like I'm talking to like Emma Stone and Begonia. Like I feel like I'm like talking to like a literal alien. Like I need to like get stop smoking. Okay.

I get it. Yeah. I got it. Out of body experience can be good or bad. It was bad. Yeah. It was bad. It was bad.

Okay. Well, yeah. So it was in the basement of Grisdys and it was like really, you know, it was like, it was not traditional stuff. You would see people like Meg. You would see like weird performance art. You would see stand up. But it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like the traditional setup punchline stand up. How did you find Meg?

Did you find her via Twitter? Instagram. Instagram. Well, she again was in the scene. And so I actually, the first time I ever met her in person, we were both on a stand-up show together. And to call what she does stand-up is like not fair because it's performance art. You know what I mean? She's like more than a stand-up.

But yeah, she actually was so weird. It was like a bunch of people from New York were on an L.A. show that I was doing. So I met a bunch of people that night for the first time. But she, yeah, her videos on Instagram is how we first found her. She used to go on Instagram live and pretend to be like a lunch lady. Her characters are so unhinged and they're so funny. And she had this thing that was like both really self-assured but also a little bit bumbling. You know that like stuttery thing she'd do?

You got to be vacuuming the rug. You know what I mean? Like the way that she did that. And we were like, oh, that is right for this character who we were already writing to be super nepo. Like super self-assured, super rich, super nepo, but also kind of bumbling. So the character she was doing, they were like so kind of what we were envisioning, that we were like, she's, I think, perfect for this. Then I met her on the stand-up show, and I was like, she's next level.

She did audition because it was her first thing and it was HBO. But in that first audition, we were like, holy shit, this is going to be funny. Is she, I don't think anyone in the world has ever made me laugh as hard as she's made me laugh. I know. Like, really and truly. We laugh so much. Do you, and I remember being on set and somebody saying, like, oh, well, like, you'll improvise, but when Paul and Meg improvised, like, they could go on forever.

Like, did you guys just, like, have scenes where you would just go on forever and ever and ever until somebody had to be like, okay, enough? Luccia would be like, okay enough. But we also, she's really good at improvising within the confines of the scene. Like, sometimes you see DVD extras and you're like, that was no wonder it's on the extras, you know, because it's like so nuts and it feels like a whole new scene. But she is really good at improvising within the lane of the character. And, but we do improvise a lot.

She and I. Do you have a favorite moment? This season, Meg improvised. Basically, there was a thing about how I rushed a fraternity, but I didn't ultimately get in because I wouldn't fuck a goat. And she improvised, he would never fuck any animals. And I was like, no, I wouldn't. But then I could not get the line out.

And it was the kind of thing where I'm really, we were like limited on time. We had like five minutes. We had to finish. And I could not get through the line without laughing. And we were, her line was done. But I just couldn't, you know what I mean? Yeah.

So, yeah, it was the kind of thing where I would get, I would get through almost all of it in the last minute. It would sound so crazy. And, you know, it was hard. My favorite is the bar, her bat mitzvah. Oh, yeah. She's not Jewish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she has like, what am I going to do?

Not everyone in my school with having one. What am I going to not have one or whatever? Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember. I mean, the finale. I think it's anti-Semitic, you know? The finale has one of my favorite meg moments of all the time when you guys come across the latitude stage and she whips.

Oh my. Was that improvised? Yes. That was all her. I can always feel it when it's when it's all her. Yes, yes, yes. I mean, the line, what's up louditude? New era loading was in there, but she gave it.

She gave the loading something. You know, she always brings something to it. It's like so, that's the best. And you did this too when we like, right, because we write a million alts. We write a lot of jokes. We want like a lot of jokes per minute. But when someone comes and elevates them and does a little something, even if it's a physical thing, we're like, yeah.

Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Getting it out of the park, you know? Because all we can do is set up. Right. It's up to you to hit it out of the park, you know. What was the last day of set like? It was really, well, it was crazy because we had a couple wraps.

We wrapped in Vegas for like America. And it was really sad. We like literally had a group hug with our 150 person crew. And, and then we wrapped in Paris in the Louvre. Crazy. You guys got that filming permit. I know. We were what, me and my.

My friend were watching yesterday, and we were like, are they inside the Louvre with no one else in there right now? It was open. So here was what was crazy. We went and scouted. We scouted because we were like, what is possible? And they were like, you can come on a day it's closed and do whatever. And we were like, okay, we're going to write a huge section of the finale in the Louvre. We're going to talk about female artists and how, like, they're not judged the same way men are.

It's like, this is great for the show. This is a perfect, like, place to do this. And then the heist happened. Stop! Yeah. Not while we were there. We didn't do anything. We weren't doing anything.

But no, the heist happened and they were like, sorry, no filming. We can't let you film. And we were like, hey, this was way after we had written it, table read it, prepped it. You know, all of the- The concept of you fighting with the people at the Louvre over filming? Oh, it gets worse. So we were like, okay, we can't shoot there. We went to Versailles.

We were like, can we make this work at Versailles? It didn't have, it's more like a palace that you tour. It's not like a museum. Lots of different paintings that we could then discuss. So you're like, okay, we'll try and make it work. And then the Louvre called. And they were like, you can't shoot when we're closed, but you can maybe shoot when we're open if we just bring 12 of you in,

which is so hard to even fathom, but we were like, we'll do it. So we call Versailles. We're like, we're not going to come. Uh-huh. They were pissed. They were like, where are you going? We were like the Louvre. They were like really mad.

Wait for, like. Yeah. Well, so then, great, we're back in the Louvre. then the Louvre goes on strike. What do you mean the Louvre goes on strike? The employees, like the union of employees that work there are like, we're on strike. So they're like, you can't come now. Europe is always on strike.

They're always on strike. And we believe in unions. Union's wrong. For sure. But when I was in Barcelona, I could not get anywhere because the taxi drivers were on strike. Well, when we were there, whatever, scouting, there was like an air traffic control strike. We couldn't leave. I'm telling you, they're always on strike.

There's a lot of striking. Clearly it works. Yeah. It works for them. Yeah. It's not broke. Don't fix it. But we go back to Versailles.

We're like, sorry, we can't go there now. And they were like, fuck off. They were like, you may never step foot in here. They were like, you want to go to Louvre? You go to Louvre. So we were then stuck. We had no place to shoot. And then the president of the Louvre resigned.

So the strike ended and we were able to do it. It was crazy. What was your backup plan? We didn't have one. We didn't have one. But somehow things worked out in making the show. You know, we were just like, we had a lot of like our AD said this is the most snake bit show I've ever worked on in my career

just meaning we had like so many weird things come up but somehow it worked out not good not not I mean it it did yeah it did work out you're at the you've crossed the finish line but the end was really weird it was 10 of us in the Louvre because we were there while it was open but by the time we finished and we said and that's a rap that's a series rap on hacks everyone was gone so it was just us in this museum it was really crazy it was really surreal and beautiful and emotional. Oh, well. Congratulations. Thank you. Thanks for being a part of it.

I'm so, so beyond honored. It's, I got to be part of my favorite show on TV. Oh, that's so nice. Coolest thing in the entire world. Thank you. Well, you were perfect. Thank you. Yes. And now we're family. And we, by the way, we are family. We are family. We are family.

Because for those that don't know, Paul's sister-in-law is the headwriter on my show. Yes. Genevieve. Literally family. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. And Paul, it's so funny after knowing Genevieve, I was just telling you this, I can hear her in the Hacks show. Yeah, she's been, she's done Punch Up and written on the show since season one. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a lot of her in it. Hannah's delivery. I'm like, that's Genevieve. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. And I'm usually right.

Yeah. Because I'll always check after. I'm like, was I right? Yeah. I can't wait to hear it in your show. I'm so excited. Yeah. It's going to be so fun.

I feel like I have the best team in the entire world. I'm so seated. You know? Yeah, that's so jerry. Yeah, literally, literally. She once said to me, she goes, L-O-L, I'm laughing. And then I have John going.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have been working on something for the past few months that I'm really excited to finally tell you guys about. As you know, my workout journey has not been easy. But it has been extremely fruitful. I have been basically living out of the Allo Wellness Club in both Beverly Hills and New York City and somebody who's really helped transform my body is Louis,

so I'm super grateful to announce that I now have my own series, both with Louis and Bianca, on the Allo Wellness Club app, called the Shake and Train with Jake Shane series. There are two strength training workouts, both are 10 minutes each, and then there are two 10-minute Pilates classes, so you could conceivably do all four of them in a row for a 40-minute workout. We filmed it on the Allo Yacht in the South of France, It was one of the most incredible experiences of my entire life.

I remember it being really, really fun and really funny as well, because I remember I wanted people to be able to laugh during the workouts because I feel like that's what made people gravitate towards my workout content in general. And I wanted to make sure that resonated in the series that I did with Allo, as well as show off my progress and how far I've come. And also, I travel a lot, like a lot, and when I travel and I need to work out, I use the Allo Wellness Club app to work out because it is the same exact workout that I'll do at the gym. So it really kind of brings the Allo Gym everywhere for you. Also, the great thing is, like, if you're in a time crunch, you can still do only one of the four workouts and get a great 10-minute workout.

And because each of the workouts is super fulfilling. And, like, I do them all the time. I do those workouts all the time. And even if my series isn't your jam, which is so fine, there are over 4,000 different classes on the Allo Wellness Club app. From strength training to Pilates to yoga, to bar, to Matt, you can find anything you need for a good workout on the Allo Wellness Club app. I know I have, especially given that I've been all over the place lately. It's really helped me stay grounded, which I think is one thing that has been really important to my workouts, that it's helped me stay grounded. You know, I think at the end of the day, that's what's most important for me.

And the best part about this all is that it's free. You can go to Allo Wellnessclub.com slash Jake to download the app and start working out with me for free. No credit card, no subscription, no catch. That's Allo Wellnessclub.com slash Jake. Thank you again, Allo, for doing this with me. It has been such a dream. And I'm so proud of it. And I hope you guys enjoy it.

What's your favorite moment from Hats? Okay, well, that's an impossible question. What's a moment that comes to mind when I say favorite moment? There are a couple moments, and they're really my favorite, partly because of the technical difficulty of doing them. One of them is the very last shot. The very last shot was really hard to do. And it was something, we had the song for, I think, two or three seasons now. We've known that's the song.

And in fact, because it's from a TV show, we were like, we need to clear it early because it might be really hard to clear. And also it's got two artists who, you know, could deny, well, I mean, the estate of one and another one who might deny the use of it. So we were like, let's get that. But to make that work and then the final shot happened and also coordinating with two different casinos to have a fountain go off, all of that to work. And that fountain. On those notes. Yeah. Because the timing, we played the music as we did it.

Oh, right. Because we had to get the timing right. And for the fountain to go off like that, because you kind of can't be like, you know what I mean? You have to be like three minutes before, turn it on, warm it up. You know what I mean? Yeah. It just was a magical moment. It was like a pinch me moment that it worked.

And the other one is in season one, our third day of shooting. We were in the desert. Deborah gets a flat tire and she calls the local news station. She has her buddy pick her up in a helicopter to bring her back because she's got a residency. She's got a show every night. And she has this great monologue about how it doesn't get better. It gets harder this career. She's so good in that monologue.

She's so good. It's like one of my favorite performance. and as she says it, Hannah or Hannah, Ava says, you're leaving me here in the desert? And she goes, yep, and the helicopter, because we had a real one, landed behind her in the exact right moment. And I was like, oh my God, this is. So it was those two things that were pulled off,

A, because Lucia directed them beautifully and because Jean and Hannah acted them beautifully, but also because, I don't know, there was something in the air that helped, you know, just make it work. Yeah, and you guys are, like, you guys are perfectionists. We are very exacting. Our catrays is we live for Tiny. We're really, really, really, really obsessed with Tiny. It means we're control freaks, but, you know.

I remember when I, I think it was, it was, it was the shot that I was in, it was the first episode I was in, and it was the shot, it was the oneer from, from Gene's dressing room to when she goes on the stage and turns around. and I remember every single person had to be exact and precise. You shot that like 20 times. And that's intense that that's like your first episode. Not your first day, right? No, that was not my first day.

But still, to do a honor like that is so intimidating. But can I tell you though? Like you guys, like the, and I said this to Louise right after I got off, I was like, wow, their set is like really like friendly. Like everyone's friends. So like in between takes when you guys were talking about it, we would just all hang out. It wasn't like, it wasn't like, and here we go again.

it was like so fun it was like and it was mag and it was mag would do a different thing like every yeah yeah yeah i mean we you know i think you can feel it in the work when it feels good i think it has to be pain you know in order for it to be good uh but we we do want it to be fun because that's like the making is the thing right you know and so it is important for us to like keep it fun and enjoy it and of course there's so much stress and i think it seems like we're having more fun sometimes than we are because at least jen luci and i are our whole holding a lot of stress. You know what I mean?

I'm always like, I'm making a dime with my butt here. I'm like clenching my ass the whole day. Right. But we have to laugh and I find. In fact, I've been going through all the photos, like the BTS photos.

We laughed so much. There was so much laughing on the set. It was really, you know, I know everyone says on an impress tour. It was magical. It was so magical. It was really.

I can test from the three days that I was there. It was pure magic. Yeah. Well, thanks. Yeah. Well, congratulations. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you. Paul. What do you therapist about? today. I'm angry about AI. Right. Isn't everybody? No, not everybody. Most people are using chat GPT and having a blast, but I'm angry about it. I, it fucks my shit up. It does. Your brain? And I use it like, yeah, well, because I've really bad OCD. Me too. Do you? Really? Yeah, diagnosed, brother. What type of OCD do you have? Um, touching things. Me too. Really. Yeah. Yeah, that was my first, that was my first ritual when I was seven. Oh yeah, I have a lot of rituals. Yeah. I did not know that about you.

Oh, you can't. It's, it's really. It's really. It's really. It's really. It's really. It's really. It's, it's good that it's invisible to people because to someone like lucia it's so apparent you know it used to be really bad it used to be like i would be like i have to touch that manhole in the middle of the street and it'd be like traffic's going and it's like no you don't you don't need to touch that you know or it also got bad when i'd be like i have to touch that the corner of that table at a restaurant and it's not my table it's or you have to touch that like person oof like i didn't usually have a person what was yours what did you have to do i would have to touch things evenly and i'll never forget it I watched this episode of girls and Hannah brushes past this person and have to go back and tap them again.

I know, I know. Oh, my God. I get it. Yeah. I get it. Yeah, totally. I would have to like crack. It started probably like cracking my knuckles on one hand.

I'd have to do the other one. Yep. If I snapped, I had to snap it. You know, it was about like a balance thing. Are you on meds for it? No. Are you? Yeah.

Okay. 300 milligrams. Wow. Okay. Yeah. And it works. Does it work? It works.

It works when I think. I don't smoke weed. Oh, interesting. So that's why I'm like, I think I need to. Yeah, yeah. I think I need to be off it. I can, sometimes I have the compulsion not to have a compulsion, which I know sounds crazy. Wait, because I know what you mean.

Sometimes I'd be like, oh, my, because it's almost like a good luck thing. Is that why you do it? Yes, it's magical, it's magical thinking. Magical thinking. It's superstition. It's magical thinking. I used to do it like when I, like, before a race when I was swimming, I would have to like stretch a certain way, you know?

You're a swimmer? I was. Yeah, I was a captain of my high school team. No way. Yeah, I walked on in college for like two days and was like, no. This is D1, I cannot. You know? Would you go to college again?

I went to Duke. Okay. Right. So it was a real deal. So even though I was, I was a good swimmer and I swam on club teams and in high school, I was not, I couldn't devote my life to it, you know. And in a very dorky way, I couldn't do, I couldn't do sketch or improv comedy if I did the team, really. You can't balance. You have to do it.

Honestly, you're doing practice in the morning, practice at night. It's like, you know. You don't, do you not do stand up anymore? I haven't in a long time because of, you know, because of the show. I do it occasionally. Like, Megal asked me to do her show or, you know, like, I'll do it occasionally if there's, if someone's doing a XYZ person and friends. But I don't do it regularly, no.

I haven't had time really to write material. So I'd be doing old material. Got it. You know. But I do miss it. I love doing it. I did it when I was in like seventh grade and I've never had the courage to do it again. What?

Yeah. I don't know how to. A child, poddry stand-up. What? That seventh grade is young. Yeah, they put me at the, my parents put me at the Gotham kids. No. Yes.

And I, well, you'd be great at it. I think you'd be perfect for it. I think, I think that's why I like Meg so much because I like what she does. Yeah. I like her version of stand-up. Like, stream of consciousness, like random core. That's what I would do. Like, when I was on stage.

You should do it. I think you'd be great. I just don't know how to write a joke. Hmm. I know that sounds so stupid. You tell them all the time. I know. But also, you could do this.

the things you do, you know? Right. Like you seeing Michelangelo's Statue of David, you could just do that in the show. You know what I mean? Right. Because it's so funny. It's so hard to, I felt so burnt out by those skits towards the end of it. I think I must have done like 200.

Well, that's how I first came to know your work. Right. Because, you know, they were so funny and passed around and then you'd be like, have you seen this one? You know, so. I gotta get back into it. It's worth it. I got to get back into it.

And I think that is like a perfect little micro impression for stand up, you know? I know. I need to see Meg at the Largo. Yes. Let's go together. Family trip. I would, family trip. Okay, family trip.

And then Italian food. Yes. Because you guys are the most Italian people I know. We are very Italian. Yeah. I'm only half, but Lucia and Genevieve are 100%. Uh-huh. Lucia was born there.

She was born in Italy. She came to this country without a dollar to her name without a word of English. She was one. Okay. I was about to say. I'm always like lean into that. You got to say that. I was about.

I was about to say, I did not know that. Yeah, yeah. She was one. Actually, and you know what? It's so funny. One of the reasons she came, this is a callback. One of the reason she came to this country is her mom and dad, her mom was born in America. Her dad was born in Italy.

They went back to Italy. They won a bunch of money in Monte Carlo or something when they were gambling. They decided to say they had her. And then her mother couldn't send photos back to her family in the States because the post office went on strike so much. And she's like, we got to go back. Strike. I can't do this. I can't do the strikes.

Yeah. And she also missed chocolate chips. Did they not have chocolate chips in Italy? I guess they don't. I guess you had to break up chocolate to make chocolate chip cookies. I don't know. It was like a baking thing. So she needed her desserts, you know?

Got it. I get that. Do you guys ever miss the East Coast? Because Lucia and Geneviva are from Massachusetts and you're from New Jersey. You know, we go back enough that I don't miss it. I miss my family, but I'm not going back to the humidity or the cold. You know what I mean? I know it's like the weather is the reason, but it's, I don't miss it.

I know. I love the people. When I'm there, I love it. And when I go to New York, I'm like, this is great. It's a great place because I've lived there. I lived there for so long that it was a great place to, to be when I was young doing comedy, because you really have to be tough.

And now I'm too soft. Now I'm like, I can't. You feel like you're softer now? After being in the public eye? In some ways, yeah. In some ways, I am. But I'm also softer in terms of, like, creature comforts. You know what I mean?

Like having a yard, you know, and having, like, room to move around. Sorry, that's a brag. I do have a yard. Very nice yard. Well, thanks. But, you know, it's like, when you're in New York, it's great to be interacting with people,

but you're like, never not. You know what I mean? It's like, it's so loud, you're always touching people. You're in the subway. It's just like, and it's like the energy. Everyone's like, I love the energy of New York. I'm like, it's possessed. The energy is possessed.

People are in the East Village, like walking around like zombies. I'm like, I love New York, but I wouldn't want to live there. It's a great place to visit. And then after three days, I'm like, I'm hung over. I also eat and drink so much more there. I don't know what it is, but I'm like. You walk more. That's true.

I'm in a New York. I'm like in a New York. right now. Well, you could walk. You can walk, what is it? 40 minutes. I do. I do.

I do. I do. Well, I have an injury right now, so I, like, can't work out. And I, like, need to move my body or else I'll go insane. So I'll, like, walk to all the way down there. And it's good for your brain. It is. It is.

Yeah. New York energy is possessed. I've had so, well, growing up, I had, I was unmedicated and I had mental breakdowns every day. But, like, I don't have mental breakdowns here the way I had them in New York. Yes. Well, you don't think it's the place. Well, it's weird, though, because I feel so much more isolated here.

And I will never forget my mom saying that to me. Like, because my parents are both from New York, but I was born in L.A., raised in New York, like, back and forth. Oh, I didn't know that. Okay. I lived in Los Phelas when I was one. Oh, oh, wow. Yeah. And I, my mom was like, I hate L.A.

I'll never go back. It's the most isolating place in the world. And the example she uses is one time I threw up on the street after eating Abbott's pizza. and no one, I like was projectile vomiting, and everyone in L.A. was just walking past on like Aba Kini. And she was like, if we were in New York, somebody would have asked if you were okay.

Okay. I think that's right. I get that. And I was like, oh, I guess you're right. And I'll never unsee it now. Now I feel like when I feel lonely here, it's tenfold. That's okay. Well, I'm going to counter it.

Do you mind? Please. I don't want to give you rebuttal to your life. No, please. I'm living experience. I beg of you to rebuttal because I'm stuck here. Okay. when we first moved here

I would say the very first week we went to La Poubel we had a drink and a married couple tried to take us home and I was like okay they're friendly here Wow and then we were online

at the grocery store and this woman turned around and overheard what we were saying and engaged in like a 20 minute conversation with us as we walked to our car so I was like people here were too friendly to me

in my experience I was like people are very in a way that in New York no one's at Christides turning around and being like you know I don't know it just felt like a really different place God, Gristides is the most insane callback I've ever heard of my entire.

I don't know. They're still there, right? I don't even know. There's one at 86. Okay. And between Broadway and West End. This one was on 26th. They had a great candy aisle.

They have a great candy aisle. Oh, you know what? Yes. That's right. There's one in the village still, I think. And there's a, I wonder, is key food still around? Must be. I don't know.

I just went to, I always say the name wrong. What is it? Fairway? Ciderrella? Cedarella. Cedarella. I was never a Cidorella guy. Really?

I was Zabars. Oh, okay, sure. But of course. But of course. From my high school. Oh, okay. So I would go there every day. Yeah, I use the mug very often.

I got the mug. The very famous mug. Yeah. We shot Broad City in there. Oh, yeah, you did. Yes, we did. Yeah. That was iconic.

That was fucking iconic. Yeah, that was fun. Talk about one of the best TV pilots of all time. Wow, you think so. I know so. We talk about it. Me, Genevieve, and Paul talk about it all the time. Wow, that's cool.

Yeah. That's great. The simple act of just searching for money. for a Little Wayne concert. That's right. They just need to get ticket money. That's right. And it sets up the most...

It sets up everything. You set up everything. We used to say tiny missions. Yeah. Every episode was a tiny mission. And New York made every mission impossible. And that was a great guiding life for the show. It's like the best show ever.

Do you have a favorite broads any moment, Louise? It's like her favorite show of all time. Okay. I've seen it. Oh, I didn't know that. Okay. A tray solstice bow. That's so nice.

Oh my gosh. Is that the first? same episode where you go to the IKEA? No. That's working girls. That's episode. Yeah, that's like the fourth episode or something. They go, oh, wait a minute.

No, episode is no. I was thinking of the one where they go to Costco. That's working girls. The one where they go to IKEA, Abby gets a yellow hat and dates a girl for the first time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the yellow hat is a... You know, my favorite.

The yellow Kangle hat, what? My favorite is when... Who loses their fucking phone? Abby. Abby lost phone, Abby. And the entire episode, she's searching for this fucking phone. And she finally finds it with this girl in like a frio shop. She was so funny that girl.

I remember that girl. Yes, she's hysterical. Where is that girl? I don't know. She was really good. And she was like, oh my God. I'm going to see, now I want to get high and watch Broad City. Okay, well, you can do that.

That's safe. I know. Watching Run City is safe. It's the safe. You're not going to have an out-of-body experience like that. Did you take anything you learned from filming Broad City with you into hacks? Oh, yeah. And you know, Abby Alana, Jen Luchy and I all came from that like UCB improv, sketch comedy scene.

Yeah, it's a small scene. You guys all know each other. It is a really small scene. It's a very small world. And, you know, I think Abby and Alana started Broad City as a web series. Around the same time, Luci and I were making YouTube videos because that's how we all started. We like taught ourselves how to edit. We like did all.

We held the boom mic. You know what I mean? Like we did. We were just like fake it till you make it. And the reason we did that is because it was hard at the time. It was like there was a lot of, even though it was a small scene, a lot of people wanted to be on the main stage.

And it was hard to get stage time. And so we all kind of did stuff outside of the system a little bit. And I ended up being in the web series and Lucia directed some of the web series. And so it led to us, you know, doing the show. And I think a lot of what we learned doing improv, like the idea of yes and the idea of like agreement the idea of um a mistake being something that can be woven in and actually making the thing better a lot of that we still use now another thing we learned and we tried to do in broad city and

we try to do in hacks is that while every scene should like serve the story and tell the story it should also have a comedic game so there should be something else happening that's funny and repeatable a pattern you can repeat and that's like a improv 101 thing and so I don't think everybody who writes necessarily has that exact way in, but it's something that we have always done. And only recently where we, they're doing a, Matt Walsh is doing a book about UCB. Can I say that? I don't know. Like an oral history of it. And so we were talking to him about it. We were like, oh yeah, we actually do use a lot of like those tenants of improv in our everyday life and in the making of the show now. And in Broad City was really scrappy. You know, it was like low budget comedy. Central show.

They like let people who had never, talk about people who have never been on TV. We'd never written TV. None of us. Chris Kelly was in the room and he had done some S&L, but none of us had written narrative TV. They let us figure it out. And we kind of had to just push through insecurity and,

and doubt and just do it. And we still do that, you know, that we're like, can we get in the Louvre? You know, and you just have to push through and be like, we're going to do it. We'll figure it out. Like, are you susceptible to like, critical reception of your work?

Do you feel, like, impacted when someone doesn't like your stuff? Or are you confident enough in it that you're like, I don't care? Okay, I'll say this. I... Feedback about the work, like reviews, make their way to me when... Honestly, when they're really good. Because I don't read them. But other people do.

And if someone's like, hey, they saw something in the show that I didn't even see, or this was a really insightful piece of writing about the show, I will read it. Because I'm so appreciative of people's take on it, and it does make you feel very seen if they get it. Or if they get something out of it that you didn't even realize was a part of the work. So I do appreciate, like, good writing about work. But for me, it's more about output than input because, you know, the one bad thing. It's, same with like a comment or a tweet.

Like, the one bad thing will kill you. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it will stay in your brain. and I just try to let it be putting the work out and then not because that's the thing. If you get like a big ego because you're hearing all the good things, you have to also take into account the bad things, you know? And that's unpleasant. It's so unpleasant.

And hey, criticism of work is really important because people find it that way. It's like a really important part of the process. Right. And yet everybody's a critic now, you know, and it's, so it's, so it's, that's the issue. Yeah. Everyone's a critic. Yeah. of everything of everything of like you know if you're if you're on if you're on social media of how you look

you know what I mean there people are critics of everything I would so much rather someone be so nasty about what I look like than how if I if I'm unfunny oh yeah and it's like the only thing that I think one can be more vain about than their looks is like if they're a comedian is how funny they are well yeah a piece of work the Joan Rivers dog she says um she's like comedians are the most insecure people on the planet. Yeah. Because you just want someone to laugh. You're like laugh with me, laugh at me, just laugh.

Yes, yes. You know, I see so much of that documentary in Hacks. Do you guys watch that in? 100%. We did watch it. And Rachel Hamilton, who was a great improviser and a coach of ours, was a producer of it. And what was really fascinating and one of the reasons we wanted to make the show was at the time, there were people who were not that much younger than us, pretty much

our generation. some of whom who had known Joan Rivers to just be like an e-news correspondent. What? They were like, she's a fashion correspondent. They didn't know that she almost hosted the Tonight Show. Right. They didn't know that.

She got blackballed. Yeah. So that did definitely impact us because we were like, can you imagine being somebody who doesn't know, like, the path she paved for comedians, especially women in comedy? So that was like a big, a big factor in just us being like, oh, no, this is telling the story.

of someone whose story has not been told, because nobody cared to listen, is the reason we have to make this show. Yeah, I would say that it's one of the more moving pieces of comedy I've ever seen. Yeah, it's so good. Yeah. It's so good. And there's a lot of Joan and Deborah.

I see so much of Joan and Deborah, because Joan was like my idol growing up. Really? Yeah, I loved her. I loved her. She was just relentless. Have you read her books? No, I don't believe.

You should. Well, you can get the, you know. Holy shit, that was so painful. No, no, it's okay. It's okay. This is a safe space. It's actually, you know what? It's funny you say that this is a safe space.

It's not. But it's okay. Not everybody reads. This episode of Therapus is brought to you by booking.com. Booking. Yeah. I was looking at photos from Vegas the other day with all my friends, which we booked on booking.

com because it is the easiest place to book any type of group travel. or any travel in general. And I was like, I really want to go on a group trip soon. So then I started thinking about Labor Day, which led me down a booking.com rabbit hole, which I find myself on very frequently, to search for places to plan a Labor Day vacation because the only way a trip in my friend group is happening

is if we use booking.com because it accommodates every single person's needs and finds us a place that is perfect for that. Because as we like to say, like, as long as we have a roof over our head, we can basically do anything. booking.com gets that sorted for us so we can plan the rest of the trip. Like it takes the hardest part of the trip planning away so we can then plan the rest of the trip.

Also, my friend group, as you can imagine, is like, everyone has a different opinion on where they want to stay. Everyone has a different opinion on what they need. And so booking.com is able to consolidate all of that and find us the best place possible to stay for our vacation. And it also has incredible rates. Like it has places we might not have found before. Like booking.com just is our go-to. I mean, as you guys know, I used it on tour all the time. We would pull up to a city.

No hotel in sight. And Matt would book on booking.com and he would find the perfect hotel every time. You know, there's so many hotel options in Vegas, and it's sometimes just hard to pick one. And booking.com really helps, like, narrow down the facts of what each hotel has. So it makes it easier for us to end up deciding on one. We're a very indecisive group, and booking.com helps us become more decisive.

Go on, book that trip. It's easy. booking.com, booking dot yeah. Should we do the tell me what's wrongs? You don't know what they tell me what's wrongs are. Let me tell you what they tell me what's wrong. Plus he's right in and they tell us what's wrong. Okay.

And we... Yes, I've seen. Yes, I know. Okay. I forgot my husband and I's fifth year anniversary. There's like seven eyes. I feel horrible and he's been so sweet telling me how truly okay it is. But I don't believe him for a second, especially since we've helped each other be more intentional, thoughtful people.

Okay, they're in couples. They're in couples. Okay. Right. Wait, what did you say? They're in couples therapy, maybe. Oh, it seems. Intentional.

I know, she's using words. Yeah. Yeah. How, how, how do I make this up to him? Please, I'm too guilty to think of anything cute. I forget my dad's birthday every year. You do? Every year.

You know, it's hard. You know, it's hard. Keeping track of dates is really hard, especially if you have ADD. I don't know if you do. I do. I do, too. What does she do? We're very similar.

I know. We're Scorpios from the tri-state area with OCD and ADD. Okay. Right? Twin Flames. Right? A little bit. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. Yeah. What does she do? I think it's forgivable to miss an anniversary. I guess he must not have missed it. He must have done something really nice for her. Right. I would just say you got to pamper him.

You got to treat him well. What does he really like? What does he really like that he doesn't get a lot? Right. You know? I'm picking up. Okay. What I'm putting down.

Well, you're putting down. Yeah. I don't know. Just do something. Do something. Nice. I mean, he clearly doesn't give that much of a fuck. I don't think he's going to divorce you because of that.

Right. It's okay to miss a fifth anniversary. Well, I'd be so mad. I guess fifth is like a nice round number, but... I'd be so mad. Would you? If my husband missed my anniversary, oh, I would never let him forget it.

It's so funny. I wouldn't care. Really? Well, that's because you're in real love. Is that why? Because the love is real. The love is real. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Your husband is so in love with you, he could give less of a shit. Yeah, don't worry about it. It's okay. I think don't just move forward.

Right. Just move forward. Yeah. I have a severe spending problem. Shit. I feel this. I might not be able to help. Okay.

No, I have the worst. Do you? It's really out of control. Oh, I'm very frugal. Oh, I used to be. Hmm. I don't like to spend. I don't like to spend in yet.

You leave the house. It's $100. Don't you find this? I have like a, like, lately like I've been like clothes. I have been my thing. Oh, yeah. Anything. Yes.

Well, cashista. Yeah. I know. I'm seeing you at Dior. We were just, we hung out all night. I know. That was fun. Very fun. Very Hollywood. Very Hollywood. Very cool. We made it. I have a severe spending problem. I'm in college and have to pay for school and want to save all the important,

and want to save for all the important things in my life, like a wedding and buying a home. Okay. Interesting. Very heteronormative. Okay. But we don't know what kind of wedding. Maybe it's same-sex wedding. We don't know. But that is a good point. It's interesting. Okay. Sorry. Sorry to, editorialize. No. Editorialize away. Okay. But I just can't stop spending money or on materialistic items like clothes shoes and so much more. I just don't know how to stop and actually save my money. Please help. Okay. Well, you can't take it with you. And I think if it brings you joy, do it. You got to be responsible. But I think just go for it. I don't know. She wants help, though, to save. My idea is like, if you're saving all this money for a wedding and then you're not buying the things you actually want to

buy in real time, then the wedding is going to be far less enjoyable because the pressure on it will be so much higher because you had saved for so long. And the wedding is one night. I give low-key good advice. really good advice. Honestly, it's not low key. That's high key. That's good. Thank you.

I think if you put it all on the wedding, not only is there a lot of pressure, but it's one night. Right. It's one night. Yeah, you're going to have photos, but how often are you going to look at the photos, but you want to buy that pair of shoes. Think about cost per wear. Well, that's my thing.

I would so much rather spend money on something I'd wear every day or can sell in the future. Okay. Like, you know what I mean? I got to get your grilled link, your private grilled link. Yeah. Right. Oh, my God, grailed.

Yeah. Oh, no. No, I know what I'm doing this afternoon. I forgot that website existed. Oh, you're kidding. No, I literally forgot. I do a lot of, actually, you know what's a good hack? Gem.

GEM, it searches, like if you want to search something, it searches grailed. Ooh. Deepop eBay at C. It searches like all these, like, resale sites. Uh-huh. So you can find the thing you want. Ooh, I would prescribe confessions of a shopaholic, the best movie of all time. For this person.

Yeah. Have you seen that movie? Oh, that's pretty good. Oh, my God. Have you seen that movie? where she puts the credit card in the freezer and the ice and she's... Oh, that's good. Yeah, she's in the kitchen, like slamming on the...

It's the best movie. It's the... What is it? The green scarf? The green scarf, yeah. I am cultured. You are. You don't need to read a freaking book.

Yeah. Who needs books? No. Just rewatch hacks. Don't read anything. What was your season you're most proud of? This one. This one?

Yeah. I think the final season is the best season. I mean, season one was great because it was new and we, And we got to make it. You know, there was so many things about it that were great, but I don't know. I think this season, but it's also hard to choose. Yeah. It is hard to choose.

I mean, I think my favorite moment, and I'm sure others would agree with me in the entire show is, I would. Wouldn't you? So not a Jimmy Kayla moment. Okay, that's fine. Well, my favorite Jimmy Kayla moment. Oh, okay. Is, um, I told you, the bat mitzvah.

Oh, yes, that was fun. When she wears the lingerie in the hotel room. Classic. or when bitch I love you bitch oh my god you got this bitch

oh my god she's funny yes no I would wouldn't you that was really fun was that scripted that whole yeah that was scripted and we figured that out

I think on day one of that because we knew that we were getting to her getting the show and then not getting the late night thing but then

or not getting the head writer job but I think it was day one of the writer's room that we were like she takes it. So baller. So it was really fun. So unlike Eva too.

I know, but so like Deborah. So liked it. Yeah. And Deborah gave her these lessons. Yeah, that was a fun. And that was actually the first day back from the strike. Oh. We went on strike and, you know, the industry went on strike.

And then our first day back was that, which was like such a big scene. And I think even Hannah was like, geez, I have to do this like huge scene right now. And it's interesting. Like in the moment, sometimes you're like, I don't think we knew even in the moment how great that would feel until we watched the edit. We were like, that feels so good. I'll never forget. I was literally sitting on my couch over there with all my friends and we were like,

we just witnessed great television. Wow, that's cool. Yeah, we just witnessed great television. Then you went and at me for it. Yeah, that was cool. Yeah. Well, thanks for group watching it. That's nice.

Oh, I always group watch hacks. Really? All my friends watch it. That's great. Everyone watches hacks. So did you watch the finale with people? I watched it with my best friend Charlie last night. Oh, that's great.

Oh, I know Charlie. Yeah. That's cool. Oh, my God, you bet it's your. Yes. Yes, I totally forgot about this. We watched it last night. Oh, good.

And we were like, damn. I mean, that scene, yeah, I cried when they were dancing in the cloud. That's when Lucia is most impacted. I don't know why. Me, it's the church right after that, that I'm like a mess. Oh, yeah, yeah, when she lights the candle. Yeah, and also when that song, there's that lyric true love that comes in in that song, and I'm like, oh, it just really gets me.

It's when Abe is accepting what happens. Yeah. And it's like, oh. Also, when Deborah goes to write a joke, realizing she wants to live, oh, my God. Like, Charlie looks at me and goes, oh, she doesn't want to die. Yeah. She goes to write the joke. Yeah.

And in that moment, I saw Joan Rivers. Oh, that's so good. In that moment, I saw Joan with her book. Wow. Yeah. She talks about her book, and she, in her documentary, a piece of work, she points to an empty page and she goes, this. this is the scariest thing. The scariest thing on planet Earth.

And in that moment when Gene goes to write the joke and she realizes that she's not, she's dying, Charlie's like, oh, she's going to live. I mean, there's also so much comedy to like, I'm going to kill myself. And she's like, you say you want to kill yourself all the time. And Hannah's like, I don't mean it. Yeah, yeah.

She doesn't want to kill herself. She just wants to die. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, my first ever research paper in eighth grade was on euthanasia. You're kidding. Swear. Really?

Yeah. Love it. Wow. Charlie and I. Love it. Love it. I do. It's great.

Charlie and I were like, yeah, that's the shit right there. Sorry. Well, this is like a, talk about a tone shift, but I am like, it does feel like the thing in Haxi would, we would investigate as like this right to life thing and like dying with dignity. And it feels like Ava would so be on the side of, yeah, you should be able to end your life. Yeah. Except when it comes to someone you love. It's so hard to walk the walk. When it comes to someone you love, you know?

Yeah. Because that would be something that Ava would be like, this is. great and Debra would be like, no. Yeah. So interesting. But Debra loves control. She does love control. Yes.

Yeah. You know who made me crack the fuck up during my episode was what's her name? She was the HR person that was required. Oh my gosh. Michaela Watkins. The funniest person I've ever. So funny. Did you not know her before that?

No, I knew her. Yeah, she's so funny. But she kept every single time she could do something different. And it was just like, same with Meg. Yeah. She would be like, in the oneer, would go, fuck them raw.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. I'm so good. I'm gonna miss it. I know. But I'm so excited to see what you come up with next. Me too. Me too.

Very excited. Well, and I can't wait to see you. I need your show to come out like tomorrow. Tomorrow. I do need, today's a last day of hacks. I need it tomorrow. I need you to hurry up.

I am so excited to just take what I've learned from like a set like hacks and bring that to the set. Great. Genevieve, Paul. Alec Amy and I are going to create. Because I was like, oh my God, everyone's friends on this set. Everyone, everyone. Hannah was friends with every single.

I was watching Hannah like a hawk my first day. She knew every single person, everyone was best friends. Honestly, you should use that crew. That crew is the best friend of the world. Is that how that works? Well, yeah, I mean, like, if you hire a department head, usually they hire a lot of the same people. And all the departments were so not only talented,

but so devoted and good and cared so much and also were good people. It was like lightning in a bottle that we got like decent good people. You know? And you, well, so you pitched it in 2019 and you shot it in 2021.

Yeah. Or you shot it in 20. We started in 2020. Yeah, it was, oh, it was pre-pacine pandemic. It was pre-vaccine pandemic. So we wore two masks and a shield. Gene used to be like, what?

We'd be giving her notice. She's like, honey, I can't hear you. Because we're talking through a shield and two masks. It was crazy. And if somebody had, tested positive for COVID, anyone they interacted with

for like two weeks before that also had to then take like two weeks off. It was a crazy way to... Talk about misery in New York. I was in New York for the pandemic. Oh, that's really rough. That's really... Rough doesn't even cover it.

I was sharing a room with my brother. Wow. I would be on FaceTime until 3 a.m. Every single night. My brother would say, shut the fuck up! And I was like, oh my God, I'm 20 years old.

I'm in a room with my brother and I leave the house every day with gloves and two masks. Yeah. I'm in hell. Yeah. And this must be hell. Well, especially in New York, it feels like, I don't know.

At least here there was like a little bit more space in nature. I flew back. I ended up coming back here. You did. Yeah. Yeah. And I started working and I was like, okay, whatever. And is that when you started like doing more videos?

I started doing videos when the place I was working for was like, you need to finish college before you start with us full time. Oh. And then I started making videos. Cool. And I was literally just reviewing Octopus with my best friends. Right. Yes. And that was.

And then the skits started and everything. just kind of like after that. Wow. I know. Now we're here on therapists. Love it. I fear I've been labeled the pretentious one of the friend group. Oh.

This gives me the ick for myself. Like it's not my fault. I like good TV shows and music. I don't even go around flaunting this. I almost feel like my group might be projecting insecurities. They are. Absolutely. Now my question is, was that pretentious?

I really need a reality check. No. Absolutely not. I don't think you're pretentious at all. No. In fact, I think you need, I think we, one should own the, the term pretentious and the term snob. What does snob mean? It means you care about things and you care about things that are good.

And it doesn't, there's a difference between though, like being pretentious for the sake of being pretentious. Right. But if you love it. I fall into that sometimes. It's hard to avoid. It's very hard. Yeah. That's okay.

Like mama loves the label. Okay. Right, right. Yes. You have to, that's the thing. You can't just love the label. You've got to also love the thing. That's what Louise tells me every day.

Okay. But that's right. But guess what? If you like, there is, some people argue, there's no difference between a $3 bottle and a $300 bottle. And it's like, no, there is. There is. The way that it's made, the way that it's processed, the way that it tastes, it is different.

So I think if you are someone who likes something like that, that's okay. Don't be ashamed of that. Yes. You know, as long as you're not doing it for like, oh, I like this because this is the cool thing to like. Like, don't curate in that way. You've got to be authentic to what you like. If you're authentically you and you're authentically a snob, it's okay. Just live with that.

The only place that I am authentically a snob is television. I know good TV. I've seen enough TV where I know good television. You put in your 10,000 hours, you know. Yes. You're an expert. Oh, God, it's so funny you say 10,000 hours. The place I used to work at was called 10K projects.

Really? Because of the 10,000 hour. Yes. Yeah. Well, I'm the same way. I care about good TV and good movies. But it doesn't mean it has to be one that's like critically acclaimed. Right.

You know what I mean? I can just be like, this is really good. There are certain things that have been canceled after a season. And I'm like, that was so good. What do you think you have? I thought English teacher was really good. English teacher was great. And they had two seasons, but I thought that was really good.

I mean, talk about one of the funniest moments in television history when I don't know her name, but do you remember when they're talking about Stonehead on the school bus? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you seen this? No, but I've heard. It's really good. She goes, they go, and who's the, who is she says, and she says, everyone. Do you know what I'm talking about?

It is one of the funniest line deliveries of all time. Yeah, it is good. There are so many great shows that just, you know, either don't. I don't know why, but they don't continue. Oh, my God. You want to know what I'm thinking of is the OA. Oh, yeah. I didn't see the O.A.

Holy fun. I can't make a judgment on the other way. It is fantastic. Okay. It's the same person who did murder at the end of the world or murder at the whatever it's called. She is fantastic. I really like her. She's in a, and she stars in the OA.

Yes. Yeah. At first, you're watching and you're like, what the fuck is going on? And then by the end of it, you're so invested. and you're so moved by it, it's just excellent. Okay. And I love television and like Ben's time. Oh, really?

It's my favorite genre. Have you seen time traveling bong? No. You're kidding me. What's time traveling bong? It's a prestige miniser about me and Alana Glazer smoking a bong that brings us back in time. You have to watch it.

We also go to the future. And I think that we sadly predicted that Trump would be president. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Like an idiocracy, kind of? Basically, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, we weren't the first, but yes. But anyway. How did you guys, like, what happens that you, do you predict that Trump? We go to the future and essentially, I think, because of Citizens United, what happens in the future is that we have been, because of our debt to China, we're basically, like, subsumed. And so it's like America has become China, kind of. And, you know, the environment, there's a lot of environmental.

So were you a stoner? Was I a stoner? I did smoke weed in college and after. I don't know that I would say that I was a stoner though I wasn't like like I think Ilana would probably claim that she's a stoner I don't know if I would say it was a stoner I would say that I was a you know

a weed smoker but not a stoner I think I I have been a stoner yeah and I think and my hot take is in 20 years people will talk about it the same as alcoholism Oh you think? I think so I think it's way less dangerous than alcoholism Very very much less dangerous but it's really addicting You think?

I know so Oh, wow. Okay. Like, I know so because I feel it. Like, when I, like, had to stop, when I stopped smoking for nine months, that first week, I was irritable. I was miserable. I was, like, sweating. I couldn't sleep. Like, I was going through, like, real withdrawals.

Is that because you smoke a lot? I smoke. I, right now, I smoke every single day. Okay. So that's, that's frequent. And every day I say I'm going to stop, but, like, literally talking to you right now. I'm like, I'm definitely going to smoke after this. I think that's okay.

I don't know. I think it's different than, it's certainly different than drinking. It's way different than drinking. Yeah. Because I'm present and in my body sometimes. Yeah. And you can, yeah, you can function if you, even if you've had a lot, right? Or no?

Kind of. Okay. Can I say something I just realized? Please. This might be one of my favorite therapist episodes I've ever recorded. Don't cut that. I'm not. I really, I feel so locked in with you right now.

Ditto. Yeah. I do feel very connected to you, and I mean that. I'm like, it's so, it's so heartwarming to me that, like, literally, I know it's weird to be like, you're part of the family because you're working with my sister-in-law because you're on hacks, but you are. I feel so honored every time you say that. It's so cool. It's literally true. Anyway.

Yeah. I gave up coffee, you know, and it was... When? I couldn't drive. When did you give up coffee? I couldn't drive. I gave up coffee last summer for a couple weeks. I was doing blood work and...

This is TMI. I was doing blood work and my doctor was like, don't have this before. And he's like, actually, if you can not have coffee and a couple other things before for a while, that's good. Two weeks would be great. The first day, and the second day, I could not drive. Yeah. The headache was so bad.

I was like, this is crazy. So I stayed off coffee for like the whole summer because I was like, I can never, this, this is fucking me up so much. I don't think I can never go back. And then my friend was like, oh, my dad gave up coffee for like 30 years, but he went back on. And I was like, oh, what was his experience? And she was like, he said he was tired for 30 years.

And I was like, all right. I'm not doing that. And I'm already tired like all the time. I'm tired every moment. Every single day. I'm tired. I'm exhausted. I could fall asleep right here.

I could fall asleep on the ground right here. Always. I walk into the gym, they go, are you tired? Yes, me too. Yes, I am tired. I know, I know. What is that? It's just like life.

It's just life, yeah. It's like probably gluten. You think gluten. Yeah. I think it's, I don't know. I am like, I don't know. I don't need a lot of gluten. That's why I'm saying, I don't know.

Hi, Jake. You're looking so ripped and fabulous these days. Thank you. Just wanted to note that. I need advice. Oh, so is that separate? I live in North Carolina right now, but I've always wanted to live in New York.

and my lease ends in three months. Okay. Oh my God. So I'm so obsessed with the fact that, like, the rip thing was so separate from the other questions. So thank you so much. I know that's sweet. But I've always wanted to live in New York.

Could have been cut out, but I'm glad we didn't. I'm glad we kept it. We're going to keep that one out. That's good producing. Well, that's it. Nolan. But I've always wanted to live in New York and my lease ends in three months. I hate my job.

I want to quit so bad. My issue is that my boyfriend lives here and some of his, my best friends from college. I am so sad already at the thought of leaving them, but don't want to put off my dream of living there. What should I do? You got to go. I think you got to go too.

You got to go. Listen to breakaway by Kelly Clarkson. Perfect. Listen to break away. Get in the car. Go. I mean, of course it's sad. Endings are sad.

Saying goodbye is sad, but you've got to push through that. You know, and especially I think if it's a dream of yours, you should absolutely do it. And it's better to do it now than to do it later. I mean, imagine being like, what if? Yeah, you can't, you don't want that regret. Also, you might imagine trying to do it when you're 50. again, I'm sorry, it's too hard. And New York isn't a hard place to make friends, I would say.

I think it's actually, it is way easier to be connected to people because you don't want to honestly, you don't want to be in your apartment. Unless you like have, unless you're super rich and have an amazing apartment, I'm like, you want to be out because everything's a tissue box. Everything's like so tiny. And everyone wants to make friends in New York. I've made so many random friends on a night out. Totally.

I do think IRL like meeting people is so much easier. It is. In LA, in LA, it's almost impossible. If you were telling me you were moving in LA, I'd be like, okay, I get your anxiety. Right. It can be hard. I'm thinking about starting a podcast. Well, me and my co-worker who...

I'm here doing research. Me and my co-worker who want to do what are stuck between two topics. One is just us hanging out, but we don't want to do that without an audience already. Two is a TV show review slash watch-through pod, but that also seems a little broad. Any advice from me and amazing guests, of course? Okay. My advice would be to go into it with zero expectations. That's good.

Like my manager told me, like, you don't expect to see any growth for two years. So I didn't. And then I was happily surprised when I did. Okay. That's good. And you kind of just have to like, I don't know, I would clip it. Mm-hmm. This is like actual advice.

I would clip it. And I would not expect to see any type of growth for like at least 20, 30 episodes. Like really build a community. Now, do you think in terms of the question about should it be a rewatch? Like, do you think this person needs an in, like a hook? Or is it just like, you can just talk to your phone? A little. Okay.

I think there's too many of just talking. Yeah. I think you need like something to anchor you down. Right. So for this podcast, it was this. Right. The tell me what's wrong. We're always the anchor of this.

That was always, but then we always got somewhere else. Right. But you need that anchor of just a topic or like a niche to fall into. Right. I think. Yeah. And the rewatch ones are successful. I love girls rewatch podcast.

Oh, me too. They did. They did. Yes. Yeah. Were you on that? I was. Yeah.

Yeah. They're lovely. Yes. They're great. They're great. They're great. I want them do hacks. They should do hacks.

Now that it's over, now that it's over, they can. They will do hacks. I hope they do. They will do hacks. I hope. But yeah,

I think you should just do whatever you're like, you're into enough that you're like, you're an expert. You know what I mean? That's the thing. Like, they can speak about girls so well or broad city so well because they've seen it. And I am like,

whatever her hook is or his hook is, it's just like you have to really love the thing. Yeah. I want to talk about it a lot, you know. For me, that's TV. So that's why I always. I thought about doing, They did it because they did Broad City,

but Darcy Cardin and I used to joke about doing something called locker room talk because we both worked at the gym on the show. And it was just us talking about Broad City, essentially, but then other things. Never did it. We never did it. Did you ever go to SoulCycle for research purposes for that show? Well, Abby and I both went to Equinox in New York. And so it was kind of based on her lived experience,

which was, I think to get a membership, she would hand out flyers for Equinox. So I think she like quote unquote like worked for them to get a free membership. Right. And then we both took a class that was like a class called Intensati, which was like a like a cardio mixed martial art aerobic thing. And I don't know. That's how she in the pilot she worked actually initially in a coffee shop. And the feedback was that feels kind of unspecific, which was correct.

And then she was like, well, I did work at Equinox. And it was kind of a crazy scene. And so then for the for the series, Solstice was born. Solstice. Solstice based on Equinoxia. I need to watch Broad City. This is like making me want to rewatch Broad City.

Tell me if it holds up. I haven't seen it in a minute. I promise you it. Some things don't. I didn't watch it. Some things don't. Well, I didn't watch it at the time. It was on television.

Oh, you didn't. You were too young? Is that why? No, it was, what was the year it came out? I think the pilot was shot in 2012. Yeah, I think it came out in 2013. You were too young.

That's cool. But I watched girls. I just say, I couldn't like... Well, Girls was the same era, you know? But Broad City was kind of like, if you know, you know, you know, you know, it was like, it was more comedy. It was more... It was more...

Yeah, Girls was much more mass. Broad Cities, like, developed this cold, I feel like... Yeah, totally. It slowed its way into, like... The collective consciousness, yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's true.

Did you feel a resurgence of Broad City during COVID on TikTok? I did. And still recently, things will come up. Like, in the club, we're all fam or whatever. That was recent. In the club, we all fan. She wrote that. She did?

Yeah, she did. I know. I hope she got a good check out of TikTok for that one, which. I don't think there is that, right? Yeah. I don't know. There isn't. I don't know.

I don't even know why. But that was cool when it, when it pops back up. Yeah. And I'm almost like, how and why? You know? And that was everywhere, by the way. Sabrina Carpenter used that sound. I think Kamala did it.

Yeah, everyone did it. Everyone did it. Um, my boyfriend of two years and I haven't said, I love you yet. Okay. I know I feel that way, but I've been so hurt before. Oh, well, now I feel bad for being the first to show emotion that I held it in. I've also had the mentality that I don't want to jinx it. I get that.

He is amazing and my literal dream man and treats me like a princess. I fear that he's picking up the vibes from me to not say it, but I totally know he feels the same way. What should I do? The vibes. Yeah, absolutely say it. If he's picking up the vibes from you, you say it first. Oh my gosh. You should watch Gossip Girl.

And watch Gives. Gossip Girl. What is it? Original? Or new? Three words, eight letters. And I'm yours! Okay, that's when I missed.

You didn't... Didn't watch Gossip Girl. Paul. I'm sorry. Well, Paul, what did we learn today? We learned that we're family. We are family. We learn that it's okay to be pretentious.

Yes. We learned to be authentically yourself and to say I love you. And to be unafraid of that. And I love you. And I love you too. And congratulations on five incredible seasons of hacks. Thank you for being a part of it. Thank you for having me.

It's my honor. The series finale of hacks is out now. Hold down. Check it out. Saltis D's bow. Hi, Pussies.