Therapuss with Jake Shane - Session 146: Troye Sivan

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

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Hi Pussies. Tonight we have on probably one of my favorite musicians in the entire world. His forthcoming album, She's the Best, is coming October 9th. Please give a warm welcome to the King, Troy Sivan. Thank you very much. Is that true? Yes. Really? Yes.

I feel like I didn't know that about you? You know what I was listening to of yours the other day was, um, Raged Teenager. Yeah. So good. Thank you. That was like my little COVID baby EP. I was about to say, what's it called on that EP? Is it, can't stop thinking about you?

I could cry just thinking about you. Yeah. Yeah. I love that song. Thank you. That was like, I was so depressed. That was crazy. I was like going through a breakup and then COVID hit.

And I like panicked and made that EP. And I'm really happy with it. But like, it just is such a weird time in my life. Like when I think back about it, I'm like, well, Do you feel that way about other albums? Yes. Yeah, like if I had to sum them up, Blue Neighborhood is like, I'm like young and gay and like figuring shit out and I have like no idea how to make music. But that's like kind of charming.

That's the first one. Second one I'm like so in love. Like amazing love vibes. That EP, depressed COVID. Something to give each other was like. COVID was coming out and I was like going fucking mental and like partying heaps and it was a really fun time in my life. And now this one is like kind of back to depresso mode a little bit. This one?

This one. Well, I mean like it's weird because, okay, so the album basically is like it kind of like starts in my head like story wise on tour like on sweat tour. Yeah. And so there's these like songs in the album that are like crazy and kind of like irreverent and whatever and I'm like, you know, party and party and whatever. like, some of the songs I'm like, oh, I can't wait to play this live in a way where, like, I've got the dances and da-da-da-da-da.

But then also, like, the truth of my life at that time was that I was like, and still kind of in this place where I'm like, oh, my God, I'm like actually really lonely. And so I was like, I'm not going to fight that. I'm going to write that as well because both of these things are like true. And then, yeah, so now it's this sort of like, it kind of sums up like my whole life at the moment where it's like, yeah, things are awesome in a lot of respect and I'm like loving my life in so many ways. But then there's this like deep, like longing, you know. When do you feel the most lonely?

I think like travel days. Yeah. Like long flights and airports and like hotels. That's always like a huge one for me. You have like a lot of songs about like long distance or like talking to someone and not being with them. Is that because of the tour and like your lifestyle? I think so, yeah. Like I've really like I mean, I've done a lot of long distance, but then also just like, I think, you know, at a certain point it also kind of became a crutch where like I would be like, well, I can't really make myself like vulnerable to this person because I'm leaving

in like a week. You know what I mean? Like I don't know how you feel about traveling with like dating and stuff. But it's just hard because it's like, well, I'm going on a date with you and then I like you, but now I'm leaving. Yeah. So it's like, but you find a lot of romance in the long distance. Like a lot of your long distance songs are very romantic to me.

Yeah. Well, also, the weird thing about this album is that, like, a lot of it is written to this, like, boy, like, La Boy, for example, on one of the songs on the album. It's like, this imaginary man that I don't know who he is. Oh, it's not based on anyone. Like, not anyone specific, you know what I mean? It's like, even a song like FF, which is like this like undying love song or whatever, it's kind of pathetic because I'm like writing it about this like guy I made up in my head. When you start to date someone, do you like envision your entire life with them and like make

up this whole thing? Kind of, yeah. But I also think I, I think that a problem for me has been, I think when you get too comfortable being single, I think like, when I first was going through my breakup, I was like, okay, I promise myself I'm going to be single for a year. And in the beginning, that felt difficult to like stay single. and now I can't relate to that at all. And I'm like, oh, maybe I've taken it too far

where, like, now I'm really in my, like, single bag in a way where I don't know how to, like, connect in that way anymore. You know what I mean? Do you miss being in a relationship? Yeah. Well, for those that don't know, I took it too far last night. I took it too far, and I took it too far because when I saw you out and you were drinking, I was like, well, oh, if Troy's drinking, then it's fine.

I thought the exact thing when I saw you. like, oh, he's so chill about the podcast. I can't be chill about the podcast. Yeah. I, too far. Did you go home after Peebles? I went home after Peeples. That was a good choice, I think.

Yeah. See, that's what my choice should have been. Well, it was already, like, by the time it was 2.30. And then you went out? I went, okay, so One Oak reopened for, like, one night only in New York. And I, like, love the club. Like, the club is my favorite place in the entire world. So this One Oak,

I've never been. It's, when I think of it, I think of, like, a straight, like, kind of, like, vagus-y club. It is. Okay. It is. And you love that? I don't know why I, like, I think I get so insecure in, like, gay environments that, like, I find peace being in, like, those straight environments, which is, which is horrible. Do you get, like, do you hit on people at all in that environment?

I tried to last night at peoples, and then the second, I feel, like, I feel like. like an ounce of rejection, I just pull away entirely and go the opposite direction. Right. Yeah. I'm realizing that going out is like the best way to meet people. It is. It is. So not a groundbreaking statement.

But I, it's crazy. Every single time I go out, I'm like, oh, there's this person. Oh, it's like it feels like real life. I don't know. It's like so much more productive, I think. Do you ever find yourself to be like, are you, do you feel like you're more introverted? They're more extroverted. Definitely more introverted.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can like turn it on for work. But like last night, Terry wanted to play party on like the, he gave it to the DJ or whatever. And that is my actual nightmare. Hearing your own music out. Especially in unreleased song because I'm like, no one's going to know it. It's going to feel really, really uncomfortable.

Like whatever. People are going to like feel like they have to like look at me and be like, ah, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just like everything about that experience sounds so nightmarish to me. Like it actually triggers my fight or flight. And last night I flew. The second that the song started playing, I like a B-line and ran out the front door.

And you just left. No, I stayed. I went to like the smoking area out the front and then poked my ear in. And when I could hear that the song was over, I went back inside. Yeah, I got that. It's like a nightmare experience, I think. Do you have anxiety?

Yeah. Me too. I know. Yeah. Really, really, really bad. I don't think, it was like the meanest thing to say. I was going to say,

I don't think mine is as bad as yours. Yes. It's not. Mine is atrocious. And I, like, right now, I'm shaking with anxiety from last night. Oh, from... Because everyone's calling me this morning being like,

Jake. And then they're like, no, but you were so fun. But Jake. And I'm like, I don't remember a damn thing. What are you... Like, what's the worry in that scenario? Like, what's the worst thing you could have done? Thank you.

That's how I feel. Okay. You made me feel so much better. You want to know where else? I feel so seen with you. Where? You have a deviated septum. I had.

Yes. I had it fixed. Can you tell me everything about that? Have you had it fixed? No. And how long was the recovery? How did you know you had one? And what happened?

So I didn't really talk about the surgery when I got it because I thought that people were going to think that I was just getting a nose job. Right. I really liked my nose. I actually preferred. It's like the most tiny change that they did because like they had to put in these like graft things. So it's a little thicker now. But I just would get sick like every time. two weeks, like at least.

Oh, that was the issue. My issue is, like, I feel, like, blocked. Yeah, but then doesn't that make you feel like shit? Yeah, yes. Yeah, so I would be, like, bedridden for, like, two days of every two weeks, you know what I mean? Where I'm just like, ugh, I feel so, like, that, like, head cold feeling.

Yeah. It was constant. And then, like, it was affecting my singing. Like, when I listened back to my old music, I can fully hear that I was just recording with, like, a fully blocked nose. And then I had the surgery, and it was, like the last thing I said before they put me to sleep was no physical change because I didn't want to wake up with like a little button nose.

Like I had this irrational fear that they were going to like cosmetically fuck with my face. And I woke up. It's pretty gnarly. Okay. See, that's what I was worried about. And how long was the recovery process? Okay. So for a week, it felt like, and this should not scare you off from doing it because I still think it was like the best thing I've ever done in my life.

But for a week, it felt like someone had. opened my face, taken a brick, put it under, closed my face, and sewed it up. Like, it was so heavy and full, and, like, it was really gnarly for, like, five days. And then I think they leave shit in there, and then they, like, take it out or something like that. But then once it was better, and you look kind of crazy, because the swelling does take a long time to go down. But within, like, three weeks, I was back, and now I get sinus infections, maybe, like twice a year.

I think I live with a year-long sinus infection. You probably have chronic sinusitis. I... What? Chronic sinusitis. What's sinusitis? It's like, I think, what you have. It's like an infection of the sinuses.

It's just like constantly so... Or like inflammation? I don't know. It's like so, like I give myself like, I go like this every single day to try to like move it around. I used to netty pot. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the crazy thing is that when you're that blocked, the water gets trapped in

your face. Yes. I remember when I was premiering my, my, my, I went to, this was when I was, like, still trying to do, like, radio stuff. And I went to Kiss FM in LA. And they were like, okay, we're going to do a Facebook live before we go live on the radio. And I had such a bad sinus infection. And I netty potted when I was at home, went to the interview. And they were like, okay, for the Facebook live, ducked down under the table, like I was sitting across the table, duck down under the table and then pop up for the live to like surprise. And I felt really full in my face. But I didn't like really think anything other because I always felt full in my face.

And the second, he was like, okay, three, two, duck down. And I went like this. And the second I like leaned forward, it released on live on Facebook Live. And I had like this watery like snots gush out of my nose. And I went like this. So the first few seconds of the live, I've never seen the live, but I was doing this. just like getting all this like shit off my hands um horrible experience

okay I needed so moral of the story is I need surgery I think you do and okay I'm gonna do in December Louise okay yep perfect okay so you sang when you were a kid and then you flew out to Los Angeles and sang for like a Jewish event and you said that it did not go well

yes I I, well, yeah, as a kid, I was like a boy soprano. Like, I used to sing, like, so high and whatever. And I would fly around and sing, like, at shawl. Like, that was my whole gig when I was a kid. And I had a panic attack, I think. It was, like, my first, like, proper panic attack. Yeah, I think it was just, like, something about being in America and whatever really, like, freaked me out.

I was like, oh, my God, because it's what I always wanted. I, like, always wanted to be in America. Yeah. Because that was where I knew that, like, all the musicians lived. Yeah. So I was like, okay, I want to go to L.A. And, like, make music. But then you, it made you stop singing for, like, four years.

Yes. Oh, I know what you're talking about. Yes. So this was right at the, because I was a boy soprano. My, like, entire identity was, like, I was, like, a boy with a high voice. Uh-huh. And then my voice started to break and change. And I was so insecure about it because it was, like, my whole life.

And I didn't really know. what to do with myself. So then I stopped singing. I was like literally 12 years old and I said to my parents, I was like, I need to take a break. Like I took a year off. And weirdly, that's when I started acting. And so that was cool.

But then I came back to music when I was like maybe 13, 14. And when you came back to me, it was because of the fault in our stars, right? Well, that was like the first original song that I released. Yeah, but I remember I did like a Michael Booble. When I was still figuring out my voice, my new voice, I did a Michael Boo Blake cover because I thought like, oh, I'm a man now. Like, I'm going to do like, you know, and I like tried to, and it's like a weird sort

of like impersonation of him almost. No, that makes sense. I was really trying to like figure out what my new vibe was going to be. And then I, once my voice kind of like settled, I, yeah, the first original song that I put out was The Folten Our Stars, which by the way, they did not ask me to do. Like I just like wrote it. It was like fanficit. Like I like wrote the song because I liked the book and then

Yeah I mean that book had a chokehold on society It was crazy That was the same time as like Perks of being a wallflower Oh yeah all those like yearning-ish movies Yeah do you like Perks to being a wallflower? I haven't seen it I don't think since it came out But it's so good

Is it like it holds up? It holds up cool This episode of Theripus is brought to you by Booking.com Well, winter is coming, which means so is vacation. As the cold weather approaches, you might want to find you and your friends want to go somewhere warmer. Maybe Florida, maybe South Carolina, maybe California. Regardless of where, the best place to book said vacation is on booking.com. Booking.com is the easiest place to book a vacation with your friends because you can add all your different preferences in.

And I'm sure you and your friends each have, someone wants a tub, someone wants to. Someone wants the shower. Someone wants walkability. You put that all in and it finds you a hotel room. Like literally anything you need to really fill out your vacation. And once you have that roof over your head, you are set. The vacation essentially will plan itself. I saw a video from Outer Banks the other day and it made me really want to go to South Carolina. And so now I'm trying to get all my friends to go to South Carolina. And we are going to use booking.com to do that. So go on. Book that trip. It's easy. Booking.com. Booking dot yeah. I want to talk about your new music video for party. Okay. And you've never seen Game of Thrones, you said. Yeah. I find Game of Thrones, it's one of those things where sometimes when something is such a big thing, I get so intimidated by it that I'm like, I don't know what my entry point is into this thing.

Like the whole world already knows everything about this and I know nothing about this. And then I'll just like get really weirdly avoidant about it and like not ever watch it. What do you watch? I watch Besides the pet I do watch the pit Yeah I watch like a lot of

Like educational like YouTube videos Like for example If you were to pull one up right now And unwind What would it be? I mean I can literally get my YouTube algorithm It'll be like something about Construction

Or like You know like there's these like YouTube channels Like There's one called the B1M That like just makes videos about like beautiful buildings or like wow maybe like something about history or i don't know you don't watch like television shows not really that much like when i get into a phase i'm like in a phase um and i'll like consume a lot but i find it's like a habit that i just don't really have like i need to like

remind myself like oh i should watch tv right i mean i could give you a whole list of stuff do you watch do you watch tv every day i i wake up i watch tv in the middle like during the day i watch tcc i watch TV to go to bed. I've seen every show Under the Sun. Wow. Do you read? Okay. Do you read? Yeah. But I read I read in like spurtz.

You know, like I'll like read like five books in a month and then I'll not read for like four months and then I'll, you know what I mean? I have a bad ADHD so I am really bad OCD so like sometimes I'll have to like

read and then reread sentences over so it's just so exhausting that I just like can't do it. Do you do podcasts? Yes, I do. Well, I mean, I know you do a podcast, but like, do this. I do like true crime. Okay. Those are the only podcast I'll do.

Like, right now I'm listening to this NPR podcast about a missing journalist in Syria. Okay. Fascinating. Really? Yeah, fascinating. Yeah. That sounds like something I would definitely consume. I'll send it to you.

Okay. It's amazing. My mom, like, and I get to, like, that's the stuff that I'll be like, okay, I'll call my mom and talk to my mom about because she, like, finds that stuff interesting. My mom is obsessed with TV and she'll watch so much TV. I remember there was this phase where she was watching this show on, I don't even know what platform it was on, but it was in, I want to say, Russian and she was watching it with subtitles, but it's like kind of like a soap.

Like there was like 50 episodes per season and like 11 seasons or something like that. And my mom like watched the entire thing. thing and truly felt like she could was starting to like learn Russian that's how I felt when I watched my German TV show dark okay it is I think you would love it you start to like pick up on phrases and yeah like nine like Jonas like the main character's name yonas oh oh okay Jonas and nine that's all I ever picked up on a name and no that's awesome yeah what is it a name and no yeah yeah name and no how do you say yes in German? Yeah?

Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! That's that. Yeah, nine and Jonas. You're killing that. I think you would like dark. Okay. What's the vibe? It's in a small German town. Love. And a little German boy named Mikal goes missing. Okay. And that's it. That's all you need to know. It's three seasons, ten episodes each, and it is the most beautifully shot show I've ever seen in my entire life. Have you seen Broad Church?

I have been debating starting Broad Church for years now. It's just like one of the only shows I've watched and I really enjoyed it. What's the vibe? Dead Body on a Beach. Who done it in a tiny town. I'm going to watch that tonight. Yeah, you'll love it. That sounds unbelievable.

Yeah, that's really good. What do you love so much about the pet? I'm really, really, really fascinated by that job. Like, I can't imagine. That is like the most different job from, the job that I have and I can't believe that people do that. Like doctors? Yeah, like work in ERs.

Yeah. It's so fucking insane to me. Do you want to know a crazy story? Yeah. It's fine because he's alive. It's like a, it's like genuinely traumatic, but, like I don't know why I'm telling this story. It's not even a funny story.

But so my dad occasionally will do like construction stuff. And he was with his best friend and he was holding up a weather. board to like the side of the house and his friend was doing a nail gun what's a weather board it's just like the paneling on the side of the house okay got it got it got it got so he's holding the panel while his friend does the nail gun the nail gun misfired maybe i shouldn't tell us this long of a nail it was like a six centimeter nail went into my dad's brain what and then we get this call being like you have to go to the hospital like whatever you know something's happened and so this was my like er experience but I went and then the ER was full and they like triaged us to the front or whatever

and they were like, okay, so your dad has like a nail in his brain and I was like, is he alive? And they're like, yes. And the weirdest part was he was awake the entire time. He was so he like, it shot him in the head and then he was like looking for the nail. And then his friend was like, I think it's in your head. What? Yeah. My dad was like, there's no way because I was.

be dead. And the guy was like, no, no, no, I think it's in your head. And then my dad went like this and he was like, okay. And he, like, waited a second because he thought he was going to die. And then he got in the car with his friend. And then they drove to the hospital. And then his friend, like, ran in and left him in the car to, like, tell them or whatever. The person comes out and is, like, asking my dad's, my dad questions, which I now realize is, like, part of, like, the triaging.

They're, like, trying to see if he's, like, confused or whatever. So they made him fill out his own forms. He has a nail in his head. They weren't just like, let's go handle this. They handed him a form and my dad's friend was like, no, like, look. And so then she was like, okay, come. So then they take him in. We get there.

They take us to this room. We're like chilling. They're like, the neurologist is going to come see you. I'm like, what the fuck? Like, what is going on? The neurologist comes in and is like, okay, which one of you is Troy? Which one of you is steal? Which one of you is my siblings' names?

And I was like, how do you know all of that? And he's like, I've been talking to your dad. And I was like, I'm not understanding what is going on because you're telling me that there's a six centimeter nail in his brain, but you're talking to him. And he's like, yeah, he's awake. what is going on. Like, we don't actually, it must have landed in a really good spot for, you know.

I mean, thank God. Yeah. So then I go in to see my dad and he's like, obviously it was like a super intense, like emotional moment or whatever, but he was like awake and like making jokes and stuff like that. And I was like, okay, fuck. Like, let's go.

And they take him off to surgery and they pulled it out and they put a little like metal plate in his head. And he's like completely fine. When was this? This was just before Sweat Tour. And this happened in Australia. It happened in Australia and I thank God I was like in Australia so I could like be with my family. But it's insane.

Like I'll show you the X-ray because it's not gruesome. It's just like, but you see exactly what you imagine like a brain with a nail like that deep into it. And they said like if it was a millimeter this way, he would have died. If it was a millimeter that way, he would have been like paralyzed or whatever. And they were like you need to buy like lottery tickets because you are like the luckiest man in the world. But they also said that. apparently a nail is like of all the things to get shot into your brain. It's kind of like, it's like the best one.

Yeah. Because it's designed to go cleanly in to a wall and like not crack and fuck shit up around the nail. So he had this like really clean incision or whatever like of where it went in. And then I think the craziest part was like, so then that night we're like in the waiting room with him after the surgery and I'm like chatting with him and he's like, I'm hungry. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to go get you a burger. While the nail was in his head. No, the nail is out now.

Okay, okay, okay. But I go to get him a burger and keep in mind that this entire thing happened like in an afternoon. Like we got the call probably at noon, got to the hospital. The whole surgery only took like an hour and they like rushed him to surgery. So it's now like 8pm and the whole thing is like already over. But it's like it was such a significant humongous like life event that I was like in complete shock and so I go get him a burger and I don't know what to do I feel this like unbelievable like

wave of joy that my dad's like alive because I had spent like a few hours of that day thinking that he was going to die and so I'm like at this random burger place near the hospital and I'm like to the guy I'm like the burger that you just made is going to be eaten by a man who was shot in the head with a nail today by like a nail gun by his best friend and he's alive and he's fine and the I was like, all right, and like handed me the bag. But it was just such a crazy experience. It was like the wildest thing that's ever happened in my life. And then I think it took ages for us to like accept that it was fine.

Because like he had like a nail shot into his head and then it came out and now he's fine. And yeah. Like that sounds so unbelievable that I was like, I don't know. I was sort of like waiting. I'm like, oh, well, surely something's going to like happen or something. Like he's totally fine. What did the recovery time on that one look like? Well, so the weirdest part was they sent him home from the hospital like two days after.

Like it happened. There was the next day. And then he went home the next day. And then I'm like at home with him and he's staying at my house because it was closer to a hospital like just in case. And then I get a call on my phone from the hospital. And they were like, can you bring your dad back? And I'm like, okay, fuck. Like here we go.

Like here's the complications or something that I've been like not waiting for but like anticipating. You know what I mean? Or like dreading. And basically, I don't know what happened and watching the pit like made me like realize this. But something went very wrong with them like discharging him so soon after. Like imagine you're doing the rounds in the morning and you're like, where's the guy with the nail? Yeah. In his brain.

And they're like, oh, we sent him home. And they're like, what the fuck? Why? Right. You know, so then he went back to the hospital and stay there for another like three or four days. But he was like, fine. It was crazy. So he's not a hypochondriac at all, it seems.

No, not at all. Like, I feel like he's like had his like, his like finger kind of chopped off when he was a kid and they like sewed it back on his left. Like he's kind of been through the walls a little bit. But this was definitely like the craziest thing that's ever happened to him. That's, yeah. Yeah, he doesn't seem to worry about it or like much. Do you get health anxiety at all? Not really health anxiety, no.

Like that's not one that I get my like biggest thing is, um, being, like, feeling nauseous in an environment where I'm trapped. So, like the gym? The gym, uh, well, no, if I'm by myself, it's fine because I know that I can deal with the situation. Like, if I need to leave, I can leave or if I need to, like, go wash my face and with cold water, I can do it, whatever. It's, it becomes a form of social anxiety where I'm like, oh, I'm with, let's say we were

working out together and I started to feel nauseous. Sorry. No, no. If we were together and we were working out together and I started to feel nauseous, I'm like, fuck, oh my God, okay, I'm starting to feel sick. And what am I going to do? Am I going to tell Jake? Am I not going to tell Jake? Like, what is my plan?

And then is he going to think that it's like weird that I'm leaving or, you know, like, or the worst is like if you're in a car with people and you're like stuck in traffic and you're like to feel nauseous? You're like, what if I just threw up right now, right here and we're all stuck with my throat? That's so embarrassing. Yeah. Like my mind goes a million miles. a minute and then it like exacerbates the physical symptoms and then I'll like kind of have a panic attack but it's it's gotten better over the years do you have panic attacks often I haven't had one in probably like three years and what do they look like for you when you have them just like kind

of classic full blown like um feel like I can't get a full breath and like clammy hands sweaty nervous like like in out in out and out like I'm gonna throw up yeah that's what mine look like I'm like I'm going to throw up right now. Do you know what helped me was like iPhone games? Really? If I'm having a panic attack or if I feel like I'm going to have a panic attack, I feel like it's like enough mental stimulation to that you can't be thinking about the fact that you're panicking, which is obviously like the cycle that, you know what I mean?

So if you can, if I can break that by doing something, like YouTube doesn't work because I'm still thinking, like watching TV doesn't work because I'm still thinking. But if I need to like be doing something, It like snaps me out of it kind of thing. When I have panic attacks, I try to reach on to something really cold. And like it like shocks like whatever part of my body is touching it. And I focus on like how cold it is and that's what calms me down. Do you get them a lot?

I get them in the gym a lot. When I overwork myself and then I'm like, oh, I feel sick and nauseous and I'm at a gym. And if I throw up in front of everyone right now on the floor, like it's going to ruin. everything everyone's rest of the day and I'm panicking because I can't throw up and I feel like I'm going to throw up and everything's hot and so I have to like literally take ice and pour it all over my face and like lay down and just like do you like tell someone like oh I'm feeling weird I say I'm going to throw up I think I'm going to throw up I think I'm going to throw up and they're like oh you're being dramatic I said no I think I'm going to throw up and I have to lay down and pour ice well it's

interesting though because hearing you talk about it makes me feel better about it because I'm like if we were together at the gym and you started to experience that I would think it was really chill like I would worry for you I would be like oh that sucks that he's not feeling well yeah but I'm not going to be like this is going to ruin my day my day that you're feeling sick that makes me feel so much better yeah right yeah like even if you threw up I would like whoa crazy and then we would like move on with our day throw up is just like so gross like when someone throws up I'm like oh but it's also an irrational fear for me because I like I have I haven't vomited in years.

Oh, lucky. You're like, I vomited this morning. No, no, no, I actually didn't, but I know it's coming. You're going to vomit today? Probably at some point. Probably at some point. Do you, like, make that happen, or is that going to be an involuntary thing that's going to happen? What time is it now?

Two, 40. Yeah. So, at around 4 p.m. No. At around 4 p.m. I'll be like, oh, that was so fun. Troy was so fun. I feel a little sick.

I feel a little second it's not going away and my head is hurting. Wow. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy. Do you watch industry? I have watched, I want to say, like, either the entire first season or like half of the first season, that is my, like, that is my type of show. I love that shit.

It only gets better. Really? But see, this is what I mean, TV is a habitual thing. It's a habit that I don't have. Like, I can be loving a show and then I'll forget to. watch TV. Like I'm like, oh, I should go home and watch industry now because I remembered about, like, it's just not a part of my daily life. What, what, what does a day-to-day life look like for you? I don't know. Like, if I have any spare time, I'm like, it's just not, I'm not going to TV. I'm like

going to my YouTube videos. And watching educational YouTube videos. Yeah. So did you watch some stuff, like I'll send you some YouTube videos that I think you'll like. Okay. Yeah. What, if you had to recommend me one right now, what, like, what would you do? put me on to. I really like watching this lady who cooks for her family of four, for like, she'll feed the family. She kind of sets herself challenges, where she'll feed the family for like 50 bucks for the whole week for like four people.

Oh, that's interesting. Right? Yeah. And so I love watching her recipes or like how she does it and stuff like that. And when she goes to the grocery store and she's like finding the, you know, like best deals and whatever and like that's fun. Did you ever watch that show? What was it?

Coupon? Oh, no, but what is that show? What was it called? Extreme Coupon in! Extreme Coupon in! I would watch that. Like, I would love that. That was like Food Network vibes.

Did you ever watch The Food Network? Yeah, I love. The Cupcake Wars? Oh my God, yeah. Also just cooking videos in general. Uh-huh. Love. Like the BuzzFeed Tasty videos.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then I bumped into, there's this YouTube chef. Did you ever watch Back to Back to Back Chef on, okay. It was a really fun show on YouTube. and I bumped into her on the street and I was like completely starstruck the chef. Did you feel like parisotial?

Completely. Yeah. I was like Carla. Yeah. We had a nice conversation. But I'm like, I feel like she's my friend. Like I want to have like a dinner party with her.

What's the most starstruck you've ever been? I think like the immediate one that came to mind is Rihanna. I mean. It's like. It's Rihanna. Yeah. That I feel like is just. one that I'll never get over.

I don't know. Like I don't think I've only ever seen her. I think I've seen her maybe twice in like real life at things from afar. And oh no. And then one time at the Met we like quickly spoke because she, when I was wearing my dress to the Met, I would have dressed to the Met one year. I remember. And then I went to the bathroom and I was peeing at the urinal and I like hiked up the dress

to pee. And then I'm like peeing and I hear the door slams open and like a bunch of people come in or whatever. And I hear a woman's voice and she's like, someone's going to take a picture of that. And I turned around and it was Rihanna. And I was like, oh my God, fuck. Cool. Obviously like your dress is hiked up. Yeah. Put everything away. And then I asked someone to take a picture and then I posted on my Instagram and I'm like, okay, that's sick to me that Rihanna told me to take that pick. And that, is that,

is that photo still here? It's still on the Instagram. Yeah. I know everyone talks about spring cleaning, but I actually think the better thing to do is an end of summer clean

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Download the Deepop app to start selling today. Thank you, Deepop, for sponsoring tonight's episode. You love long dinners. Yeah, don't you? Is that an anxiety trap for you? When I tell you, dinner should be no longer than 50 minutes. Wow. What don't you like?

I get so uncomfortable in my body after I eat that I'm like, it's we got to go, we got to get up, we got to go. Got it. And you can just sit there forever. What if the food takes a long time? Does that, is that a nice thing where like that makes a bed? Oh, no, it's like, where the fuck is the food? It's taking so long.

Okay. We just had our appetizers. It's been 30 minutes. Right. I need to leave. Like I get terrible. I think it's an anxiety about being stuck. Yeah.

Well, last night I went to dinner and we were in a booth and I won't, I'll sit and like, there was one chair. I'll take that because I don't want to get stuck. Yeah. So I get it. But I think for me with the dinner party, the thing that I'm always striving for is like, have you ever had one that was long that you did like? Like, where you're like, that was so nice.

And everyone was like, the conversation was like chatty. Like everyone's kind of contributing. Maybe we're going around the table telling funny stories and things like that. Like, has that ever happened to you? Maybe once. Where you like loved it. Yeah. My thing is I'm not.

I'm the worst casual drinker. Like I'm like, if I'm drinking. like it's I'm blacking out got it which is like the worst that's why last night it my night last night shifted I could have gone home after peoples I saw you drinking a beer at peoples and I was like if he can do it I can do anything yeah and that's and that's why I'm like I can and at that point I felt like drinking I don't really like drinking neither do I yeah do it a lot yeah like every week but I don't I don't enjoy it. Do you not enjoy it?

Do you like feeling kind of tipsy or no? I like taking trumes or like stuff like that. Like stuff that'll like like, like I'll like be dancing and like it'll like because I like to like dance and like drinking doesn't make me want to dance. Right. Drinking makes me want to like lay down and go to bed. Got it. Yeah. I don't love the way alcohol.

Like as in I, I, my dream is going to a dinner with an empty tummy having a, having a, Dirty Martini. Oh, I love a dirty martini. And then having a beer during the dinner. That is like my perfect level of like tipsy. That was, alcohol is like doing exactly what I wanted to do, whatever. And then anything beyond like three drinks up for me, I do not like, I don't like the drunk feeling.

Yeah. You know, because it's like so, it's everything that I hate. Like, and then the idea of having to get in an Uber to drive home drunk. is my nightmare. So that I think also prevents me from drinking a lot because I'm like, I do not want to be out and about and feeling sick. Have you ever thrown up in an Uber? I've never thrown up in an Uber.

I think I've asked them to drop me off at like Starbucks. Yeah, so I've learned to do that. But one time in high school, I went to a white party, and I was in all white, and I was so drunk. And I threw up all over myself in the Uber. And he was like, uh, and then I had to walk past my doorman in high school, and I was covered and throw up all over my white thing.

And he was like, you are a mess. See, like, that would be a traumatic experience, I think. Like, I woke up the next day and I was like, oh, well. And like, now I get the worst scleries I've ever experienced in my entire life. Do you, like, get scurries after taking? No, this I can't relate to. This is not an anxiety that I feel. But I think it's because I'm so, like, measured on the night.

Like, I don't let myself. go as much as I would like to. Sometimes I do, and it's just like in very specific scenarios, and those are the best nights, and I wish that I could do it more. But I think in general, my, like, baseline on a night out is I will try and, like, keep my head about me. What's the best night out you've ever had? So in Australia, we have, do you know what a bush stuff is?

Mm-mm. Okay. So in my song, party, I say party in the bush, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was interested about that. Mm-hmm. So the bush is just like Not in the city

You know what I mean? And so like if you're going out to the bush You're going to like the country kind of thing You know And we'll have these like bush doffs And it's like doff, doff, doff So it's a doff in the bush, right? It's a bush doff.

What's a doff? Like doff Oh like oh So it's a doff But what do you mean in the bush? So you go to the bush And you have a dof So what do you mean you go to the bush is like

Oh so the bush could be anything So I'm getting a bush of like grass. No, no, no, no. The bush is like, like, it could be a big empty field. Oh, okay. It could be a forest. It could be, maybe someone's uncle has like a farm or something like that.

Oh, party in the bush. It's a really, really fun thing to do if you're ever in Australia. I've never been. I'll take your push-dorf. Wow. I know. That's weird. That's cool.

You've got to come. Do you love it there? I'm obsessed with Australia. And do you see yourself settling down there? Eventually. Yeah. But I heard you wanted to love it. London boyfriend.

I do. I think my dream is obviously to just like meet an Australian guy overseas. Right. Because then I feel like I don't have to worry about like, fuck, is he going to want to move to Australia one day? Right. You know? But no, so sometimes we'll do like a little mini festival and it's like an unofficial festival.

So it's just like friends that have organized it, but it's like three days worth of like DJs and stuff like that. And I went to one not that long ago and my siblings were there. And I stayed for like two nights and you kind of just like a camp or whatever. and that was really, really, really fun. But then I think, like, the best, it's annoying to say, but the best, like, clubbing experience I've ever had was, like, in Berlin.

Where? At Bercine. What is it like there? Okay, so remember all of the anxieties that we talked about before. Yeah. To me, that is kind of, like, a one big anxiety trigger because I'm, like, in this space that I'm, like, don't know, this is before I went.

I was like, how am I going to get out if I want to? What if I need to throw up? And there's like, you know, because like there's a huge line for the bathrooms all the time. Can't even imagine. Like it's kind of a scary experience. And I went in before, before I went into it being like, I am going to surrender my body to this experience and to this place. And like, I think also, and maybe this is like a Jewish thing that we both have, but it's like, your body is way more resilient and stronger than you think it is.

I know. That's what Louise always tells me. She's like, you think you are dying at all times. Yeah, you're not. Why is that a Jew? Is it the Jewish, like, what is it? I don't know. I wish I could explain it, but I have no idea.

Yeah, it's anxiety. Anyway, so I was like, okay, I'm going to just like surrender to this experience completely. And so, like, everyone else in the place is also doing that, you know? And I, I just, had the best time. It's like, I don't know, there's something so beautiful to me about people who have traveled from all around the world and come to, we come to this place to, to, to literally, yeah, like, honestly, though, because I feel like, and it's, it's just like, how beautiful, people gathering to, like, listen to music and dance. Like, that's so cool to me,

and it's just, like, the most, I don't know, there's something so, like, I think maybe people would assume that there's this like darkness to it or this heaviness to it. And sure, I guess you could find that if you want it or if that's like where you're at. But I was in a really good place and I went in and just like, there's no phones. Everyone is so nice. I just like had such a beautiful time. I'm so jealous. You should go.

I really want to go. Yeah. Do you smoke weed? No. That freaks me. I get crazy paranoid. Really? Crazy.

For some reason with me, it's like that's the one thing that I can do that calms me down. Like my best experience on weed was me being like, everything's fine, everything's fine, everything's fine, everything's fine for like five hours, you know. You know what you put me on to and it completely overtook my entire life. What? Moth food. Oh, really? Yeah, I was at Troy's ones for what, what were we doing at yours? You was like a barbecue.

It's like a barbecue, but I don't remember for what. And I was like, I feel like you would know like a good thrift store and you, you, just threw out moth food, when I tell you, I must have, I go at least once a week now. Really? Yeah. And that's amazing, right? Yeah. I have like a John Lemon shirt I got from there.

It's tied-eyed. It's from the 70s and it just ripped up everywhere. And I'm like, oh, I feel like Trois Sivan. It looks really cool. How is your style, like, evolved over the years? Like, where do you find inspiration from? Yeah. I think, like, at the moment, I just wanted to feel more, like,

myself, you know what I mean? Like, as far as the way that I was dressing, I think, like, kind of in line with what I was talking about with the album, there became this sort of, like, caricature version of myself that I knew how to dress like, but I was like, but then that's not really how I dress. Or, like, you know what I mean? Like, it was a lot of, like, straps and complicated things, you know what I mean? Like, and I didn't feel, like, sexy.

And so then I started to dress more just like, how I wanted to. You know what I mean? And like, so it's pretty easy. I mean, I'm wearing a leather vest right now, but like,

that's because I'm doing your podcast. When do you feel like the most sexy? I think it's like when I'm out and you've identified a potential like partner. Uh-huh. For the night or for whatever. And the like leading someone around a dance, like grabbing their hand or like kind of like,

you know, like that physical touch. I feel, I feel sexy and I love, like last night at People's, I met this guy. And within like two seconds, he was like, me, come. And he grabbed my hand and like led me across and I was like melting. Like I love that shit so much. Oh, having a crush on someone on a night out and it being reciprocated is one of the greatest feelings in the entire world.

It is peak. Yeah, it is peak. It is. What's an Australian saying that you wouldn't say here besides like, The bush. I have a little rats tail. I would call this a ratty. A ratty.

Yeah. So I'd be like, like, I would never say this to an American, but if I, I'd be like, what do you reckon of my ratty? What do you reckon of my ratty? Like, what do you think of my rat? Do a lot of people in Australia have rat tails? Yeah. Oh, really?

What, it's like a thing there? It's kind of always been a thing in Australia. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I thought about doing two. Uh-huh. Pig tail, like plat tail.

How do you play? plan a ratty? Like how do you grow it out in that specific area and nowhere else? So let your hair grow, uh-huh. Like pretty long and then you'll look normal, normal, normal. And then when you get your big hair cut, you just like leave that chunk. But the hard thing is that when they're growing out, like if it's too short, it sticks out on the side. Like it looks really bad for a long time. And then I'm really excited because now as of like two days ago, I'm at the level where I can braid it and it like hangs.

Do you love braiding your hair? I can't braid it. So my sister and my brother have been doing it. Oh, when I had long hair this summer, I would take the like the two pieces here and just all day, braid it, braid it, braid it, braid it, braid it, braid it. Do you need a mirror? No.

And everyone was like, you're so good at braiding your hair. And I was like, I know. I should have asked you to braid my ready today because it's a thick braid today. It's the best, braiding is the best feeling in the entire world. It's just like, it feels like you're knitting. but with your own, like, body. Have you ever had a hobby like that? No, never.

I don't have hobbies. My only hobby is watching television. I think that you would benefit from... Nidde? Like, a hobby like that. Like, something to just, like, keep your mind busy or whatever while you're chilling still. What's that, like, what type of hobby do you have? Like, I love cooking.

Do you cook? Okay, so I used to cook when I was a kid. And similar to, like, skiing, like, when I go skiing, like, you can't. can't focus on anything else but the current task at hand. So it did like make me feel less anxious and it like took away my anxieties for like an hour because I would like listen to music and cook and this. Yeah, I miss it. I love doing that.

I think that that's like my probably my number one. What else do I like to do? What do you like to cook? I try and make new things basically every time because the whole fun for me is that I'm like trying something and like learning. So I will find a recipe on like New York Times cooking or something and try. And then I do have my classics that I'll, but they're all like New York Times recipes or whatever that I've just like. What are your classics?

There's this like really, really yummy chicken with, it's like a vinegory chicken over tomatoes and onions. It's so yum. And it's kind of like a one dish, like a one pot dish because you do the chicken and then you kind of like, and there's some like caramelized onions in there and whatever. And then you love caramelized onions. Me too. More than anything. And you've got like chopped tomato.

and then like a little bit of fresh onion as well in a platter. And then you put the chicken on and with the caramelized onions. And then you take all the like sauce from the pot that you cook and you pour it on. And it like kind of wilts the fresh onion a little bit. And you get this like vinegary sauce. And it's kind of like a salad and your main in like one. So then I'll just make rice and have that. Rice?

I love rice. I was about to say, do you put all the sauce from the chicken on the rice? Yes, of course. It's the best thing in the entire world. I love rice. Sauce on rice says, mm-mm-mm. Do you put? um like chicken stock in your ice or better than bouillon girl get better than bouillon and put like a

teaspoon in your rice cooker when you're making do you use a rice cooker or the stove i used to when i cooked okay it's like it makes your house smell so homie like if someone walked into my house while i was like making my chickeny rice i it's like my dream because it smells so good oh that sounds and you so and you just put the bouillon cube in like when you're in the water and it like flavors all Use like hot water so that you can, so that it dissolves, or you can use like the paste, the goo stuff. Yeah, the, yeah. Or you could just use chicken stock.

What's your favorite cuisine? Maybe, like, like death row cuisine, probably. Oh, I was about to say, I've never heard of that cuisine. And then I realized, and then I realized you were talking about, like, what would I eat on my death? Yeah. I think maybe, like, probably like really, really, really, really yummy, like Moroccan fish.

You know what I mean? Like Shabbat food. And I'm Jewish so I can say this. Jewish food doesn't do it for me. Really? Yeah, I only like matzabal soup and that's about it. Like I hate gefelta fish. Okay, I can kind of get amongst

Gafelta fish. I like it. I don't mind it. But yeah, I mean, like I love like a yeah, like a Moroccan fish stew. It's just like my dream.

Is that Jewish? I, well, so my uncle is like Moroccan. Oh, like, Jewish. Oh, okay, got it. So I think that's why I, like, have grown up eating that. Have you ever been to Morocco? No, never. I've heard it's beautiful.

Wow. The only thing I know really about Morocco is that, do you remember Anna Delvey? Mm-hmm. That's where she went on her big trip that she couldn't afford and she, like, left that girl there to pay for the whole thing. Love. Yeah. Well, is she in jail?

No, she's out of jail. She has an ankle monitor on, and she is on a year-long press store always. Wow. For just being Annadelvie. Have you seen her before in real life? No, I would never have you. Maybe not. I don't think I have.

I would gag. Like, speaking of Starstruck, if I saw her, I would be like, oh, my God, that's crazy. That's Anadelvie. Yeah. It is one of the most interesting stories I've ever heard. And Julia Gardner, who plays her in that I'm so obsessed with. Yeah. She's really, really good.

She was supposed to be Madonna in the Madonna biopic, and then all fell apart. I saw that she's trying to, like, bring it back. I need, do you like music biopics? Um, I really liked walk the line. I've been told that that is the one I need to see. That's a really good movie. It's about Johnny Cash, right? Yeah, yeah.

That's like maybe one of the only ones that I've seen. Okay, let me put you on. Okay. Love and Mercy. Okay. The Beach Boys' Doc, or Biopic, the best thing I've ever seen in my entire life. Really? Yeah.

And it's like scripted, like, perform. It's not a documentary. Yeah, no, it's Paul Daino's in it. John Yusack is in it. And Elizabeth Banks is in it. Cool. And it takes place. And it takes place over when he, Brian Wilson is creating pet.

Do you like the Beach Boys? Yeah. It's when he's creating pet sounds. And then like 20, 30 years later when he's like a paranoid schizophrenc, and he's under this conservatorship. And this woman, like essentially this car dealership woman who ended up marrying in real life, like saves him. Wow.

It's fascinating. And that really happened? Yeah. It really happened. Her name was, I think. like Melinda and he basically Brian Wilson was in because he like the reason

his pet sounds was so good is because he was schizophrenic so like he heard music in his mind and like had to like throw like like like he like he couldn't he like right Nolan like he like saw music and it was like when so it like he kind of like went a little crazy and he fell under the guise of this this therapist who essentially became his conservator and took complete control of him and

like abuse him. Really? Yeah. Wow. And that's all in the movie? All in the movie. What's it called? Love and Mercy.

Love and Mercy. And there's a great song he wrote called Love and Mercy. Have you seen The Jinks? I saw the Jinks in real time. Oh my God. I saw the Jinks. I remember that Sunday. I think it was.

It came out and watching it live when he said I killed them all. Yeah. I literally went to school the next day and I was like, you guys, I just saw the craziest thing I've ever experienced about entire life. It's got to be some of the best TV of all time. Ever, ever. Hmm, I'm trying to think of what else I have seen that you might like. There's some, like, really crazy documentaries.

Have you seen the woman who wasn't there? No. Okay, I mean, it sort of, like, gives it away in the title, but it's about a woman who survived 9-11. Oh, I've heard about this and she, like, went on Oprah and stuff, right? I think she did. and then the title. She wasn't actually there.

Is it on HBO or something? I don't remember what it's on, but that's crazy. Like, that was a crazy one. Well, before we do the Tommy Outs, what are you therapists about today?

I haven't really been able to, like, eat properly. Like, that's my hangover. Do you, I feel like people with hangovers, it's like you either wake up and you have, like, a crazy elaborate, like, breakfast,

or you, like, can't think about food. Ever. I'm that. Yeah. I can't think about food. I'm the same way. I can't eat for 24 hours. Yes.

So I'm excited to maybe eat lunch. And I'm kind of pissed that I haven't been able to eat yet. Okay. I'm sorry. It's okay. It's fine. Do you know what you're going to have for lunch? No, I don't know.

See, that's thing. Nothing really sounds good. I had a Jimmy John's turkey tom and it was amazing. I've never had that before. I don't know what that is. Do you like sandwiches? I love. The best sandwich in the entire world.

Jimmy John's turkey tom. Jimmy John's turkey tom with jalapinos. Okay, wow. And it's just turkey. Like very like a crunchy iceberg lettuce. Yum. And mayonnaise and almanios. And the bread tastes like if you bought cardboard and used that as the bread.

So it tastes like cardboard. And it's the best thing I've ever had to make. How does it compare to Subway? Literally, shits on Subway and sets it on fire. Because I love Subway. Really. Oh, then. Jimmy John's, like, you'll eat Jimmy Johns, and you'll be like, how on earth did I ever eat Subway?

Okay, cool. Yeah, I'll give it a go. I love live music, but I have such a hard time being around large crowds. I really, really want to go in the pit, dance with everyone and let loose, but I low-key start having a panic attack. It's also way too loud for me. I use earplugs, but still, I want to experience what everyone else does. Any tips? Hmm.

You know what? I think the best place to stand at a show is, is get a floor seat. like you're standing on the floor, but go to the back of the floor because there's so much room back there. Because there's like capacity limits of how many people they can have in the floor. So sure, it might be really, really, really, really hectic towards the front of the stage.

But at the back, like kind of by front of house where they're mixing the show and stuff like that, it's a dream. You have so much space. You can, like, dance. You know what I mean? I would say if you're in L.A., go to a concert at the forum because they have that back. You know, when they'll do like the general, like, stand in.

Yeah. And there's a back to it. and I always see people running around in circles. Yeah, exactly. When I was at Lord, people were just, like, running around and dancing. It was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in life. You don't feel trapped at all, and, like, you'll be fine. Yeah. One of my best friends is getting married in September.

But when I saw her recently, she randomly blurted out to me that she doesn't want me to get, she doesn't want to get married. She said she thinks she would be making the worst mistake of her life. Oh, my God. They've also been trying to get pregnant, and I'm not sure what to do. I texted her afterwards and tried to ask if that was really what she wanted, or if she wanted it out, and she just responded a week later with engagement photos. I'm not, that is so funny.

I'm not sure what to do as her best friend because it sounds like a cry for help, but she's going along with it anyways. You can't save someone that doesn't want to be saved. T. Yeah, I mean, I find it really shocking when people are like, when there's a couple who it's like, yeah, we're either going to get married

or we're going to break up kind of thing, or like one person wants to get married and the other one doesn't or something. I'm like, how are you that deep into the relationship where one of you is considering marriage? like for the rest of your life and the other person is not sure or doesn't know if they want to I'm like I don't know if that's going to work like I don't know if this is how maybe this is idealistic or something but I feel like marriage is something that you should both arrive at

together a thousand percent a thousand percent yeah I'm I'm concerned for this person scary do you see yourself getting married I didn't really think about marriage ever because like because it was illegal when I was like coming out and stuff I never really like let myself want it, I don't think. I was like, oh, that's like not for me. I definitely want to be in a long-term relationship. Like, I think I want a partner, like, for a long time. But the actual, like, marriage thing is not that important to me. I will say, though, so all my friends in Australia, like, they all got married when we were, like, young. Like, you know, early 20s kind of vibe. It's that vibe there. And then I felt nothing because I was like, oh, I'm like, on such a different

track of life from them. And, like, I'm kind of living in the U.S. and I'm, you know, whatever. I'm, like, gay. I'm surrounded by people. who are not married and whatever. And then I started to feel the pressure for the first time when I started to go to, like, music peers' weddings. Well, we have one coming up. We do. We do.

And it's like, yeah, like, seeing, like, Charlie get married and Dua get married and stuff, I'm like, oh, fuck. Like, my whole, like, excuse of, like, oh, I'm really busy. Like, I'm nowhere near as busy as either of them. and they managed to make it work. So now I kind of am feeling it a little where I'm like, okay, maybe I should try and lock this down somehow. I mean, I feel the same exactly way.

I've never had a boyfriend, so. Never? Ever. It makes me feel horrendous. Do you want one? See, I thought I did. I've always been like, I want a boyfriend, I want a boyfriend, I want a boyfriend. But then when I finally give myself a second to sit and think about it,

I'm like, I don't know if I can commit my, myself to someone like that. Like I'm the worst on dates. I'm the worst. Do you get crushes? I, my crushes go so manic. And the only thing that gets me out of a crush is the song in my head by Ariana Grande. Wait, how does that one go?

Look at you. Boy, I invented you. Yeah. Gucci tennis shoes running from your issues. So cute. It's the best song of all time. Louise was like, I was crashing out over this guy, like crashing out. And we went on one date and I just like saw the rest of my life with him.

And Louise, I know, he was. song would make me feel better. I was listening to Luke Combs the entire week. Wait, but why is that a bad thing? You had a crush on this guy? Because he was like, I don't want to see you. And I was like, it's my, it's me, it's, I'm the worst. He was everything. I fucked it up because I was so drunk and like, I fucked it up. I fucked it up. And Louise was like, have you ever heard the song in my head by Arna Grande? And I was like, no. And she said, you invented him. You made him up in your head. Wow. And that was the song that literally got me through everything.

Crazy, yeah. My final question for you. What is a song for you that has gotten you through some of, like, the hardest times of your life? I don't know why. This is the first song that came into my head. Because I think I have a lot of songs that have done that for me. But ribs by Lord. Yeah. That was just, like, the first song that popped into my head.

I think it's, like, one of the best songs ever, one of the most beautiful songs of all time. And I just remember, like, when it first came out where I was and, like, yeah, I still could listen to that song. Like, I think I could listen to that song every day and, like, be happy. I feel that way about your song. Could cry just thinking about you. Really? Yeah.

When I first heard it, I was like, oh, this song has changed my life. Wow. Yeah. And I told you, when I was listening to Sex Star, I was like, I've never felt more seen in my life. Your music makes me feel so seen. Thank you, Jay. Of course. I love you.

I love you. I love you. Did I just say? No, no, I said it. Oh, you did? Yeah. Okay. Oh.

Well, Troy, what did we learn today? What did we learn today? We learned... You can podcast hungover. Well, you can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved. Exactly. That's what we learned.

You can't save someone that doesn't want to be saved. Well, Troy, thank you for coming on therapy. Thanks for having me. This was so fun. So fun. I love you. Love you.

Bye, Pussies.