There Are No Girls on the Internet - Alex Jones did a lot of lying in his trial about lying

Episode Date: August 5, 2022

On Thursday, a jury determined that conspiracy theorist and radio host Alex Jones will have to pay $4.1 in damages to the families of the victims of the Sandy Hook shooting. That sum represents a tiny percentage of the profits he’s made lying about their tragedy on his show Infowars for the past decade. But even while on trial for lying, he still couldn’t stick to the truth. Join our newsletter: Tangoti.com/newsletter Want to support the show? (thank you!) Subscribe, tell a friend, leave a review, or buy some merch at There Are No Girls on the Internet’s store: TANGOTI.COM/STORE Say hello at [e-mail] omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become. when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Something we talk about a lot on this podcast are the ways that people who traffic in things like lies, conspiracy theory and disinformation are oftentimes doing it because it's a scam. It's a grift. And I think it's important that we frame it this way because I don't think we will ever truly beat disinformation until we make spreading it unprofitable. And right now, spreading lies for profit is a booming business. Just ask Alex Jones. So on Thursday, a jury determined that conspiracy theorist Info Wars radio show host Alex Jones will have to pay Scarlett Lewis and Neil Hesslin, the parents of a six-year-old child

who was shot and killed in the Sandy Hook school shooting, $4.1 million in damages. Now, this is a lot less than what the parents had initially asked for, which was at least $150 million, but there's still a chance that he'll have to pay more in punitive damages. This trial was the first of three trials brought by the families of the victims of the shooting. The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting

happened back in 2012 in Newtown, Connecticut. 20 elementary school kids and six school staff were shot and killed. It was a horrific tragedy, and Alex Jones spent the aftermath of that tragedy, baselessly and repeatedly claiming that it never happened. and that it was staged in order to increase gun control, and that the children who lost their lives

and the parents who grieved them were actually actors. Well, they're obviously looking for a big pee-off, and I think we're such parents, whatever, but when you've got somebody laughing and smell and who want to watch this, and then walking over one, and then started crying for the cameras. Now, this is a pretty well-worn conspiracy theory, and whenever a mass tragedy like a shooting happens, conspiracy theorists will claim that it didn't really happen

and that it was actually a false flag operation. Like you'll see memes falsely claiming that the people who died were actually actors who were later seen performing in the Super Bowl, or that an actor has been used in multiple mass shootings. At this point, it's really predictable. I saw the same bogus claims floating around the web after the awful, awful shooting in Texas earlier this year. Now, it's not clear if the Sandy Hook conspiracy theories

started with Alex Jones, but the families say that Alex Jones, with his millions of listeners, lit a match and ignited it and turned their lives into a nightmare. Neil Hussland testified that Alex Jones turned his life into a, quote, living hell,

and that because of Jones, he'd been harassed and threatened, saying, what was said about me and Sandy Hook itself resonates around the world. As time went on, I truly realized how dangerous it was. My life has been threatened. I fear for my life.

I fear for my safety. I can't even describe the last nine and a half years of the living hell that I and others have had to endure because of the negligence and the recklessness of Alex Jones. Now, Alex Jones was caught in multiple lies during the court proceedings. Honestly, it would take way too much time to list through all of them here, but here's a little sampling. At one point, the plaintiff's lawyers asked Jones if he had tried to connect Maya Graham, Mara Gamble, the judge overseeing the trial, to things like human trafficking and pedophilia, and he said no.

And then the lawyer played a clip of him doing exactly that. Jones went on his show and noted that the judge once worked for CPS or child protective services. Judge Maya Gamble comes from CPS, who has been exposed for human trafficking and working with pedophiles. That's what you mean when you say you're taking the service. I take this as serious as cancer. And in one of the more bizarre lies that I have ever seen happen in a courtroom, Jones testified that he searched his own cell phone for any mention of Sandy Hook and that he didn't find anything. So that means he did not give any text messages about Sandy Hook from his phone to the court as evidence,

because, as he said, there weren't any. But that turned out to be a lie, which was revealed in the most ridiculous way you could ever imagine. Apparently, Jones's attorneys accidentally sent the content of two years' worth of text messages from his cell phone to the plaintiff's attorney. And then, after the plaintiff's attorney did what they were supposed to do and told them this, Alex Jones' attorneys took no action to remedy it. So that's how it was determined that there actually were tax messages on Jones' phone pertaining to Stanley Hook, and that he failed to turn them over to the court as evidence and lied about it.

badly, I should add. Mr. Jones, did you know that 12 days ago, 12 days ago, your attorney's messed up and sitting an entire digital copy of your entire cell phone with every text message you've sent for the past two years and when informed, did not take any steps to identify it as privileged or protected in any way. And as of two days ago, it fell free and clear into my possession. and that is how I know he lied to me. This led the judge to giving Jones a pretty stunning reminder that he is obligated to tell the truth because he's under oath,

which I feel like if the judge in court has to remind you that you can't lie, like something is going wrong. Things are not going your way. You're already under oath to tell the truth. You've already violated that oath twice today in just those two years. examples, it seems absurd to instruct you again that you must tell the truth while you testify, yet here I am. You must tell the truth while you testify. This is not your show. You need to

slow down and not take what you see as opportunities to further the message you're wanting to work. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.

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I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix, so we, too, can better. understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We're coming into this world fighting for our lives. All I'm going to do is pull out what you

already got inside. We're there to support and celebrate each other. And that's not like your story versus my story. You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it. Yep. Yep. Exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the eye heart. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast's point game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a

level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Rees, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joe Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah. You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. So we're breaking down the Alex Jones trial for a defamation lawsuit brought by the parents of the Sandy Hook school shooting victims,

and some of the different lies that Alex Jones got caught in during the proceedings. Jones also lied about being bankrupt. Basically, he is being accused of suing himself. According to Reuters, the Sandy Hook family said that the company could not be trusted to make accurate statements about its finances, and that Jones took $62 million from the company while burdening it with $65 million in, quote, fabricated debt owed to a company that he himself owns to try to make it seem like he has less money than he actually does to avoid having to pay more in damages. But, despite what he might have tried to say in court, Alex Jones actually makes really, really good money telling lies about the families of murdered children. After the plaintiff's attorneys got the contents of his cell phone

from that ridiculous mistake that Alex Jones' own lawyer made, Jones had to admit in court that he is not as cash-strapped as he tried to say he was. In fact, he admitted that during some peak periods, the Info War store can rake in as much as a whopping $800,000 a day and that he takes in $300 million annually. Now, Jones has also tried to say that he lost lots and lots of money after being de-platformed from major social media platforms back in 2018.

But actually, as Vox points out, contrary to Jones's repeated assertions, he actually became more financially profitable after his company was permanently de-platformed. You might recall that Apple was the first to pull Jones' podcast from their platform. and then other big tech companies like Facebook and Twitter followed suit. And it would not be an episode of this podcast if I didn't get in a little dig at Facebook. After Jones was de-platform from Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg personally intervened to softened rules to allow his content to continue to be posted on the platform by Jones as followers, according to a report from BuzzFeed. So this is something that I think is really key.

Harmful lies, disinformation, and conspiracy theories are literally. lucrative. Info Wars makes a lot of money from peddling harmful conspiracy theories that ruin people's lives, people who were already grieving for the most painful loss imaginable, and caused real-world harm in doing so. People like Alex Jones, who traffic in lies, do it in part because it makes them money. They're grifters and scammers, and there is no limit to how low they will stoop, even lies about dead children to make a profit. And even though this $4.1 million judgment really isn't a lot of money, like it kind of sounds like it might be a drop in the bucket for somebody like Alex Jones, I still do hope that it sends a message that doing this, trafficking in harmful lives that

hurt people and ruin people's lives for profit, comes at a cost. And I want to end with some of the most powerful testimony that I think we saw, which came from Scarlett Lewis, Jesse's mom, who spoke directly to Alex Jones in the courtroom. Truth is so vital to our world. Truth is what we base our reality on. We have to agree on that to have a civil society. Sandy Hook is a hard truth. Hard truth.

Nobody would want to ever believe that 26 kids could be murdered. Nobody would ever want to believe that. I understand people not wanting to believe that, actually. I don't want to believe it. Jesse was real. I am a real mom. There's nothing out there. Nothing.

There's records of Jesse's birth, of me. I mean, I have a history, and there's nothing that you could have found. Because it doesn't exist, that I'm deep state. It's just not true. I know you know that. That's the problem. I know you know that.

And you keep saying it. You keep saying it. Why? Why? For money? Because you've made a lot of money while you've said it. And she's right. Alex Jones has made a lot of money lying about her son and harming her family.

And that's really the thing here. Listen, I am glad that the jury awarded Scarlet Lewis and Neil Hesland some money for what Alex Jones put them through because it sounds like hell. And I hope they get even more impunitive damages. Frankly, I hope the families that Alex Jones has hurt take him for everything he's got. But I know that money cannot bring back their son, Jesse. And it can't turn back the clock on the last few years that Alex Jones has spent lying about their son, weaponizing his death, and getting its followers to harass and threaten them.

And it can't undo the damage done to all of us. When harmful lies are platformed, it makes us all less safe. We saw this on January 6th. It can empower and embolden really dangerous people. And we cannot have a healthy digital landscape if these kinds of dangerous lies are also profitable because it will just incentivize trafficking in them. Let's build a world where scammers like Alex Jones

can't get rich off of peddling the kinds of lies that tore Scarlet and Neil's life apart. We all deserve better. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoody.com slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoity.com.

There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.

For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was calling it. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in two, he's like, you know I love you, dog.

You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions.

You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your 20s can be so exciting, but they can also be really overwhelming, confusing, and honestly, just kind of lonely. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and the psychology of your 20s is breaking down the science behind the biggest roadblocks we face. I was six years into my career, the 80-hour weeks, and just the first one in, the last one out, and I ended up burning out.

There was a large chunk of my 20s that I, like, was just so wanting to, like, be out of that phase out of my skin, and I just, like, really regret not living in the present more. You don't need to have everything figured out right now. You just need to understand yourself a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.