There Are No Girls on the Internet - Are the Kardashians right about Instagram?

Episode Date: July 29, 2022

After Kim Kardashian and Kylie Jenner called out Instagram for prioritizing the video content over pictures, head of Instagram Adam Mosseri responded in a desperate video. Here’s a quick history of influencers and celebrity’s impact on social media platform, an overview of the changes, and what it all means.  Adam Mosseri’s full video: https://twitter.com/mosseri/status/1551890839584088065 Want to support the show? (thank you!) Subscribe, tell a friend, leave a review, or buy some merch at There Are No Girls on the Internet’s store: TANGOTI.COM/STORE Join our newsletter: Tangoti.com/newsletter Say hello at [e-mail] omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than adds supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

Learn how podcasting can help your business. Call 844-844-I-Hart. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed.

You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Your 20s can be so exciting, but they can also be really overwhelming, confusing, and honestly, just kind of lonely. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and the psychology of your 20s is breaking down the science behind the biggest roadblocks we face. I was six years into my career, the 80-hour weeks and just the first one in, the last one out, and I ended up burning out.

There was a large chunk of my 20s that I was just so wanting to be out of that phase out of my skin and I just like really regret not living in the present more. You don't need to have everything figured out right now. You just need to understand yourself a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and UnBossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. So it turns out it's not just you. I feel like Instagram has been pretty not fun lately. Images on my grid look terrible. I hardly ever see pictures from the people

I actually want to get updates from. My in real life friends, cool creators that I intentionally followed on Instagram so that I would see their posts. I almost never see them. And actually, I hardly ever see photos on Instagram at all. What I do see are tons of reels, short video clips from creators and influencers that I don't follow, and have never interacted with.

And I don't know if it's just my feed, but it's usually not even reels about things that actually interest me. Like, I get a lot of reels about cleaning hacks and different cleaning tactics that people are using. And anyone who knows me knows that I am not interested. in cleaning. I am a total slob. Although maybe that's just the algorithm kind of shadily trying to tell me something. And it's also clear that a lot of these reels are just repurposed videos from TikTok, oftentimes one that I've already seen on TikTok, making its way to Instagram weeks later.

I also see tons of sponsored reels that are just video advertisements. And I see a lot of these same kinds of video advertisements in my Instagram stories too. So if you have noticed this, you are not alone. And the ever-powerful Kardashians have noticed it too. This week, Kim Kardashian and Kylie Jenner posted a meme reading, Make Instagram Instagram again. Stop trying to be TikTok. I just want to see cute photos of my friends. And celebrities like the Kardashians have historically had a pretty big influence in the way that social media platforms are run. In February 2018, Kylie Jenner posted a tweet to her then 24.5 million followers saying that Snapchat was, basically over.

She tweeted, so does anyone else not even open Snapchat anymore? Or is it just me? Ugh, this is so sad. And just one day later, Snapchat shares had plummeted by 6%. And within a week, Snapchat had lost about $1.3 billion. And back when Snapchat featured an offensive advertisement made by a third party that asked users whether they'd rather slap Rihanna or punch Chris Brown, you'll remember that Chris Brown

was dating Rihanna and physically attacked her. Snapchat apologized. But Rihanna was not having it. She responded, saying, you spent money to animate something that would intentionally bring shame to domestic violence victims and make a joke of it.

This isn't about my personal feelings because I don't have much of them. But all the women, children, and men who have been victims of domestic violence in the past and especially the ones that haven't made it out yet, you let us down, shame on you, throw the whole app, app, away. And people listened, and they really did throw the whole app away. This whole thing

ended up costing Snapchat about $800 million, according to Vanity Fair. So there is definitely a precedent for big celebrities having a very real influence over social media platforms, which is probably why the very next day, the head of Instagram, Adam Mosseri, rushed to respond to the Kardashian criticisms of the app. Criticisms that I feel really echo how a lot of us feel about Instagram. Ryan Mack, tech reporter at the New York Times, pointed out that Mosaheri usually posts recaps or updates about what's happening with Instagram at the end of the week, but this time he responded the very next day, on a Tuesday, after the Kardashians posts. Mack said that he would not be surprised at all if their criticisms were seen internally at

Instagram as red alerts, that the company needed to respond to immediately. So let's get into his response, which frankly wasn't great. First, he was a lot of. First, he's He posted a video on Twitter, which I feel like really tells you something that he needed to use a completely different platform to explain the changes. But in any event, basically he said, we know you hate what's going on with Instagram, and it's obviously awful, but too bad because we're not going to change it. A big complaint is that photos, which was initially the purpose of Instagram in the first place, have been deprioritized by the platform's algorithm in favor of TikTok-style video reels. So unless you're posting that kind of video content, your posts are likely not going to have a lot of reach. So if you've noticed that images that you've been posting on Instagram have not gotten a lot of engagement lately, that's what's going on. Mosey spoke to this, saying that the platform was only trying to give users what they want, which is video content.

That said, I need to be honest. I do believe that more and more of Instagram is going to become video over time. We see this even if we change nothing. We see this even if you just look at chronological feed. If you look at what people share on Instagram, that's shifting more and more to videos over time. If you look at what people like and consume and view on Instagram, that's also shifting more and more to video over time, even when we stop changing anything. So we're going to have to lean into that shift while continuing to support photos. The third thing I want to talk about is recommendations.

Recommendations are posts in your feed from accounts that you do not follow. The idea is to help you discover new and interesting things on Instagram that you might not know even exist. Now, if you're seeing things in your feed that are recommendations that you're not interested, that means that we're doing a bad job ranking and we need to improve. And you can X out a recommendation, you can even snooze all recommendations for up to a month, or go to your following feed. But we're going to continue to try and get better at recommendations because we think it's one of the most effective and important ways to help creators reach more people.

And I hate, hate, hate, hate that reasoning. Because first, they've basically used their algorithm to surface video content over photos. And they've been explicitly telling you, telling creators that they have to make video content if they want to perform well on Instagram. So then turning around and claiming, oh, video is just the kind of content that users like to engage with the most. So we're just giving you what you want. Like they didn't actually put their thumb on the scales, doesn't really work. And Instagram really has gone out of their way to tell creators that they must be making reels to perform well, even giving creators the ability

to monetize reels on the platform. So obviously prioritizing video content isn't just some happenstance way that the platform is trying to give users what they want. Also, I have a really hard time just taking Facebook at their word about how they say their users are engaging with video content. Let's take a little trip down memory lane. Facebook has a clear documented history of inflating metrics to benefit their own bottom line. And I guess another word for that might be lying or maybe fraud. I don't know. I'm the legal expert, but, you know, not telling the truth about what's going on, will say. Facebook had to pay out $40 million to settle a lawsuit involving inflated video metrics. Their metrics were inflated by 150 to 900%. So basically, Facebook told media companies that users

are watching lots and lots and lots of video content, as opposed to reading text content, which was not true at all. And based on that, companies then pivoted to video and did things like laying off writing staff to prioritize video producers. I was working in media at the time, and I was working in media at the time, actually saw firsthand the real world impact and harm this cause to actual people. People lost their jobs and previously independent media outlets like college humor and NZ on the air either shrunk or in some cases fold it all together. And I saw so many good people be pushed out of media because of this and just leave the field because working in a field where a company like Facebook can have so much control

over your livelihood by lying just didn't feel stable. And Facebook's punishment for doing all this? Well, I told you that Facebook had to pay $40 million to settle this case. But that's just 0.18% of the company's annual revenue. So pretty much nothing. And this isn't even the first time that Facebook has misled people about how users are engaging with their content. A lawsuit from 2021 alleges the company lied to advertisers about how many people their ads could

reach for years. And they did this knowingly. And when a Facebook product manager suggested changes to make the metrics more accurate, Facebook managers rejected the idea because the revenue impact would be significant. Oh, or how about when Facebook decided to get into podcasts back in 2021? And it only lasted a year, during which it seems like everybody was getting their podcasts from Facebook. Only the company said that a quote, error was causing those metrics to be artificially inflated before ditching podcasts altogether. So yeah, definitely trust what Facebook says about how users

engage with its content at your own peril. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigieg. and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined.

So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcast. Let us show you at iHeartadvertising.com. That's iHeartadvertising.com. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast's Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah.

You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast, and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we're dedicating a series to understanding the mind when it struggles. I'm joined by doctors, researchers, and those with lived experience. We'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel.

about anxiety. I started living in my car and then my car got stolen. I was shoplifting. I was having panic attacks. I was agoraphobic. And making it through hardship. To be present is a learned skill. And it's hard to be present. We'll talk with John Nelson about clinical depression

and the brain implant that saved his life. What I learned is that procedure made me happy because I'm disease-free. And we'll talk with leading experts like Judd Brewer about anxiety. and John Hirschfield about obsessive-compulsive disorder and the science of how the brain can change. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations

about what happens when the brain goes off course and what we can do about it. Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And I think that's what it really comes down to. Instagram wants to do two things. One, compete with TikTok. If you listen to the episode that we did with Abby Richards

about how they worked with PR companies to make TikTok look bad, then you already know all about this. And two, generate ad revenue. They don't care if this is what their user base wants or what creators want. Their leadership is basically just saying, too bad. And you know, I love TikTok,

but I don't make video content myself because it's just not me. I'm a podcaster, not a performer. I want to break something down in like a wordy, 30-minute episode, which just does not always translate to a, slick 30-second video performance. I also just think that short-form video takes a lot more of a specific kind of energy and skills. And it's actually why influencers like the Kardashians probably

don't like it very much. Because it's one thing to be gorgeous and looked perfect and polished at a still photograph, it's quite another to make a video where you have to be engaging, funny, or smart. And no shade to them because it is definitely not my skill set either. I remember when Instagram first started prioritizing video content and I knew it was pretty much going to be over for me on that platform. Instagram specifically told creators that if they wanted their post to perform well on the platform, they needed to post five to seven reels per week. That's like a reel every day.

And I just didn't like the idea of trying to push myself to make a reel every day, whether I felt like it or not, or whether I had something to say or not, just to appease whatever Mark Zuckerberg and Adam Mosseri had arbitrarily decided and that they could change at any moment. I can imagine it's probably not great for the mental health of creators. who are being pushed to pump out more and more content if they want to make an impact and be prioritized on the platform. And it does just feel like we're all beholden to whatever new thing Facebook and meta decide to prioritize.

Back in the day, Instagram was just this chronological feed that showed things like kind of an appetizing lunch or dinner meals and cat photos. Then in 2016, they ditch the chronological feed in favor of the algorithmic one that we have now. Then, to compete with Snapchat, they started stories. and when they rolled that out, that was where all the engagement was at. Then there was their live streaming, and then in 2018, they rolled out IGTV to compete with YouTube, which they shut down earlier this year. And now we have Reels, which honestly just feels like a less good clone of TikTok.

And I guess I just don't understand what role Instagram is trying to play in my digital life. It's trying to compete with so many things, Snapchat, TikTok, YouTube, and doing none of them particularly well, even when the thing that put it on the map was so simple, just images. Like I said, it's just not fun. And it's also a bummer because I used to love Instagram. It used to be pretty fun. Writer Jess Skullnick did a great job of summing up how I feel about it,

saying on Twitter, the only people who want these changes are advertisers. Congrats on turning a simple app for sharing photos into a dead virtual mall. And since so many of the reels you see now are from people that you don't follow have never engaged with and who make content about stuff that doesn't interest you, I really can't imagine this is an ideal situation for creators either. Non-binary cosplay creator Lizard Lee, who has about 60,000 followers on Instagram, tweeted about the platform's recommendations being so bad that creators like them

get an influx of abuse and angry comments from people who don't follow them, who are furious that their content that they don't want to see or even care about has been surfaced to them. Now, Lizard Lee says that they don't blame those users who leave those angry comments. They blame Instagram for continuously serving up content in what seems like half-hazard ways to people who do not want it. But if you're missing the chronological feed of people that you actually follow like me,

I do have one good tip for you. You can kind of go back to a chronological feed of people that you intentionally follow if you use Instagram's following tab, which will show you post from people that you follow in chronological order. Just go to your Instagram home screen and tap the cursive Instagram logo

in the top left corner of your homepage. Don't feel bad if you didn't know about this feature. I didn't know about it either. And I guess that's kind of my point. If we're having to do so much gamifying to make Instagram a platform that works for us and actually provides the user experience that we're all looking for, isn't something wrong? Should we need to do so much just to get back to that simple Instagram functionality that users say they want?

And for the head of Instagram, Adam Osseri, to make this desperate video on Twitter about how, no, no, no, no, no, no. We know Instagram is terrible, but it's for your own good, just kind of feels like the last gasp of a dying company that doesn't know what it wants to be. Anyway, I really want to hear what you think. What is your experience on Instagram been like? What are your thoughts on video content like reels? Do you love it? Do you hate it?

I really want to know. Hit me up on social media. Yep, even on Instagram. My handle is Bridget Marie in D.C. Or shoot me an email at hello at tangooty.com. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoity.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com.

There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.

For more podcasts from IHartRadio, check out the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam, it's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game. the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. You just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plan. a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance.

And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your 20s can be so exciting, but they can also be really overwhelming, confusing, and honestly, just kind of lonely. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and the psychology of your 20s

is breaking down the science behind the biggest roadblocks we face. I was six years into my career, the 80-hour weeks, and just the first one in, the last one out, and I ended up burning out. There was a large chunk of my 20s that I, like, was just so wanting to, like, be out of that phase out of my skin, And I just like really regret not living in the present more. You don't need to have everything figured out right now.

You just need to understand yourself a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.