There Are No Girls on the Internet - Ashley Reese on Tumblr, fandom, and building communities online- LIVE FROM BROOKLYN

Episode Date: June 3, 2022

Ashley Reese is a writer and cultural critic who is a prolific user of social media. We talk about the role it plays in her life, work, and the future of the internet. Follow Ashley: https://twitter.com/offbeatorbit More about Digital Void: https://www.digitalvoid.media/ Join our newsletter: Tangoti.com/newsletter Want to support the show? (thank you!) Subscribe, tell a friend, leave a review, or buy some merch at There Are No Girls on the Internet’s store: TANGOTI.COM/STORE Say hello at [e-mail] See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Learn how podcasting can help your business. Call 844-844-I-Hart. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become, when life makes. other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions, you can have like a strong stance, and then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your 20s can be so excited.

but they can also be really overwhelming, confusing, and honestly, just kind of lonely. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and the psychology of your 20s is breaking down the science behind the biggest roadblocks we face. I was six years into my career, the 80-hour weeks, and just the first one in, the last one out, and I ended up burning out. There was a large chunk of my 20s that I, like, was just so wanting to, like, be out of that phase out of my skin, and I just, like, really regret not living in the present more. You don't need to have everything figured out right now.

You just need to understand yourself a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. This is a live show taped from the Digital Void Festival in Brooklyn, New York. Digital Void is an Internet Literacy's collective exploring digital technology, media, and culture. And there, I got to speak to a show. writer and cultural critic Ashley Reese about what brought her to the internet and the role it plays

in her life and work. So please enjoy. This is a live podcast recording of there are no girls on the internet and Bridget Todd is the creator and host of IHeartRadio's critically claimed there are no girls on the internet and she's the director of communications of ultraviolet and in conversation with Ashley Reese. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hello. Thank you for that warm introduction. I'm the producer and host of I Heart Radio's tech and culture podcast. There are no girls on the internet. If you don't know what that podcast is, we really are interested in telling the story of all the ways that people who have been traditionally and historically marginalized. So people of color, queer folks, trans folks, black folks, all those amazing people who make the internet what it is.

We're really interested in telling the story of the ways that we show up or do not show up online on the internet and in technology. And what that often really looks like is, folks who are living at the intersection. And the guest that I am so excited to bring on is no exception. Ashley Reese is a writer and cultural critic. She is as comfortable talking about politics and writing as she is tweeting about her hatred for mint chocolate. Welcome Ashley Reese. No, I love it.

Rock him the Tel Feezy. I just realized, like, why do I have all of my belongings with me right now? No, I love it. I love it. So I mean, I would be remiss to not sort of start this. conversation just acknowledging that we're in this moment that feels very heavy and very fraught for so many of us and so I wanted to start by asking actually just generally as a person how are you um i feel like my response of that whenever anyone's asked me that recently is just that noise yeah pretty

much like full disclosure and i don't want like you know oh i'm sorry i mean it sucks but like literally in the last, like, month or so, found out my boyfriend's cancer came back. He's going to be okay. Got laid off from my job at Netflix. And then I've been in the hospital with my wife. He's really going to be okay. He's fine.

He just had surgery. It's fine. But, yeah, it's stressful. Like, so, and then you have, like, personal stuff on top of, like, any time I, like, check the news, it's like the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. So it's like, oh, hmm. So that's why my response is, mm.

Yeah, that I feel, how many of you all out there can identify with that noise? When someone's like, how are you? Yeah, seems like a lot of us. Solidarity, I got it. I mean, that's a great place to start. You know, you are a prolific tweeter, a prolific user, social media. She's a great Twitter follower. I definitely recommend following.

What role would you say that, especially when you're, things are really dark and hard, what role would you say that social media has and how you are showing up and coping? Like, are you using social media to, you know, find community or share resources or just, like, tweet memes and nihilistic jokes and gallows humor, like, or a combination. Like, what does it look like for you? So, I mean, I'm not someone who's going to act like I'm above doom scrolling in these situations. I know that, like, there's always a tweet that's like, you don't have to do this right now. You can log off and take a break.

And I'm like, so right. And I'm just like scrolling, scrolling. So true. And I'm just like retweet, angry tweet. Retweet. So, you know, it's this kind of thing where like I know that social media can sometimes feel like the worst possible thing you can be on when something really fucked up is happening.

But I mean, I guess if I do get some comfort from it, it's from seeing that other people or, you know, just as angry as you are about something. Or, like, you know, even if you're doing something practical, like, me screaming into the void about, like, gun control isn't maybe doing anything practical. I'm not, like, yelling in Ted Cruz's ear. Not that that would do anything anyway. But, you know, I guess if I have to do something practical,

it's like, oh, you see a go-fund me for, like, a family that's, like, dealing with, like, the aftermath of, like, something devastating to happen, like, you know, the school shooting in their day. me retweeting that is doing and like donating is doing something 10 times more useful and is a more useful use of my time

and energy than you know retweeting someone I agree with them I'm like yeah that's the right take I agree like you know it's so I don't know social media is kind of a double edge sword on that front and every other front yeah that's I mean I completely

agree and I feel like that experience I guess I when the news of the shooting first happened, I really caught myself going into this weird, dark rabbit hole of takes. Like, who has a bad take? Who has a good take? And I sort of caught myself and I was like, I'm in a place where I'm not putting out anything that's going to be useful or thoughtful or good for anybody and I should probably just log off. Right. Like, does me yelling at Matt Iglesias first bad tweet, like really do anything? That was the tweet I was thinking of. Yeah. See, we knew

see, it's like, it makes me feel good for a second to like dunk, but like he's not seeing it. My followers already agree with me. It's kind of like, okay, I'd had my little bit of like, you know, just, I don't know, getting my anger out in this like very weird pretty way. But I mean, again, I think that like it's really easy to kind of act like we need to be like above certain things. But like we're on the internet for good reasons and also deeply idiotic reasons. And sometimes I, you know, maybe it's not like a helpful thing.

It's not more helpful than like sharing a go-fund me for like a family. But like I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with kind of getting your like, you know, that angry energy out. If it's something a little mostly harmless, like I think like dunking on Madagalacias is mostly harmless. So, you know, I don't know. That's like, I mean, social media again, it's like the good stuff and the bad stuff. So you alluded earlier about like the reasons why certain folks show up on. online. What, like, what, like, what, like, what brings you to social media? Like, why are you someone who has a prolific social media presence? What brought you to the internet in the

first place? What is that, what are those experiences been like for you? I don't know. I think about when someone's like, what brought you to the internet. I'm like, I don't know, like, horny, Draco Hermione fan fiction in 2004. Like, maybe that's what brought me there. Live journal, which I still haven't, I've never deleted my account. It's like, I have a completely, like, you know, just a complete archive of every, like, crazy thing I thought about in 2004. Like, so that's kind of fun. So, I mean, I feel like I had my natural progression of, like, blogging, and then, you know, you create your Facebook or MySpace or whatever.

Then you make your Tumblr, and then you spend all day on Tumblr. And then, I don't know, I kind of, you know, as we saw in the last revision, somehow I just kind of fell off Tumblr and went to Twitter. So then you have Instagram thrown. So I don't know what breathing internet. I've just always had a big mouth. And I guess some people like to hear what I have to say. Well, thanks.

So, like, that's when I think about, like, what brought me to internet. I think, like, fandom was a big part of it. I feel like if I wasn't involved in all these, like, fandoms and meeting people through, like, live journal and Tumblr when I was in high school in college, like, I think I'd be pretty normy on the internet. Just, like, I'm on Instagram and here's, like, my dog or something like that. But no, instead I'm like tweeting about like, remember this like weird fan fiction when we were like in seventh grade or stuff like that. So I'm on the internet because of weird shit.

I mean, that's what brought me to the internet. And that's actually one of the reasons why, you know, I make a podcast about the internet. And oftentimes it's about things like harassment and all the different ways that the internet fails. Oh, I know a lot about that. Yeah. I will get into it. But yeah, I mean, what brings me hope about my experience online is, weirdos. I really believe in the power of a collective of people, weirdos who care about the

internet, care about the health of the internet, care that they can express their weird interests on the internet. And I believe in the power of those weirdos to make the internet a place where people want to spend their time. I mean, I feel like the internet used to feel more like a, I mean, I don't know. Maybe this is, again, the perspective of someone who was like on live journal a bunch all through high school and then was on Tumblr all through college and stuff like that. But I feel like, a lot of ways the internet has gotten bigger but also like smaller. Like I feel like it's so much hard to find to like not just find these like little enclaves of being like a weirdo, but also to feel like safe in them. Like this, that feels very like, you know, gooey. But I mean like

sincerely like I mean I feel like you can like in the live journal days you can have your little community where you're like a literal like the live journal community where like you're it can be like a lot community even like you don't have like random people who just want to like harass you kind of like come in. there. On Tumblr, I do feel like it was a little more insulated too. Yeah, like sometimes something from a fandom I have no interest in would come across my page and I'd be like, what's going on over there? But like it wasn't a thing where I really felt involved in or had to get involved in. Now I can't like tweet anything about like anything without someone being like,

well, like, if I say like, yeah, I really fucking hate strawberries and someone's like, well, I only can only subsist on strawberries. So this is like really, really wrong of you to say. I mean, I just feel like it's it's harder in some ways to have these spaces that don't feel like you're always in danger of the wrong people getting a hold of it. But

yeah, I don't really know, like, I don't know, I feel like, I'm like 31 now, so I've been on the internet for like half my life. And shout out to 31 year old. Yes, shout out to like being in your 30s. And still being really online and still like reading fan fiction. Yeah, I agree.

Um, no, like literally if I like open my like tabs on my phone, it'd be like A.O3, A.O.3. Oh my God. I'm so tempted to ask you to do that, but I won't put you on the spot unless you want to. All I know is that like whenever I'm in a spot where like I'm feeling deeply like in a dark place or something, it's very nice to have that comfort of like let's see what like bad fan fiction I can read right now just to like, you know, pass the time. I love it. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night. comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odin Kirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group

perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business.

Think IHart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-4-4-4. I heart. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defining the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have

Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live.

This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast, and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we're dedicating a series to understanding the mind when it struggles. I'm joined by doctors, researchers, and those with lived experience. We'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel about anxiety. I started living in my car, and then my car got stuck. I was shoplifting, I was having panic attacks, I was agoraphobic. And making it through hardship. To be present is a learned skill and it's hard to be present.

We'll talk with John Nelson about clinical depression and the brain implant that saved his life. What I learned is that procedure made me happy because I'm disease-free. And we'll talk with leading experts like Judd Brewer about anxiety and John Hirschfield about obsessive-compulsive disorder. and the science of how the brain can change. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course and what we can do about it. Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. At our back. You know, we talked a little bit about this before we got started, but I think the experience of being a, particularly a black woman who has a pretty big platform and a pretty big digital footprint online. Which I don't know how the fuck that happened. Yeah, you, I mean, you're hilarious and brilliant.

I'm not even trying to be humble. I'm like, where are you people coming from? But, you know, can you talk a bit about what that experience has been like for you? Like, I sometimes feel like it can be a tightrope, and I am very mindful of how I show up online because of it. I'm curious how it has impacted the way that you show up on online spaces. So, you know, I can't act like this has all been bad to have, like, an audience. I mean, when I was, I had to go fund me to like raise money to like support our medical bills because when I got laid off, that meant that like my, my boyfriend is insured through me and we're in America. So that means that like your insurance is really like, you know, in limbo. So, you know, yeah, having a big platform allowed me to like be able to actually like get a good amount of money to be able to not worry about medical bills. Like I'm not going to act like I'm, that's not important. But also it gets to the point where like, you know, when I really am, I really was online because of online fandoms.

Like that really is what kept me on these little corners of the internet. And then, you know, I did like, you know, writing as my career. I did a lot of political writing. I mean, it's hard to not be political for me just in my, like, existence as a person. And I feel like, I don't know, something around the time of the 2016 election, I just got like a slew of people, which is like the wrong time to get a lot of attention. and I don't know people just kept coming because I think that when you see that someone has a big like a large Twitter following or something you're like oh this is a person worth following

follow and I'm like I don't know if I'm the right person for you guys I seem to be pissing you off every single day so you know it's it's good and bad but in a lot of ways like I've had to be more mindful of like what I post like I try not to write anything too personal on like Twitter for example because someone will always find some reason, like, dunk on you. Or, like, they'll have screenshots, and then, like, five months after you post something, they're like, well, what about when you said this? I'm like, why is this in your phone? Like, you know, just to, like, pull up at the right moment, some weird out-of-context thing.

So, you know, I've had to be a little more sterile on that front. I'll still post, like, I'll still post some weird shit. Like, I mean, it gets to a point where it's like, I don't know, Amy Klobuchar follows me, but I'm like, am I really going to write about, like, I don't know, like, Dobby Hagrid fan fiction right now? Like, I'm like, I'm like, you know what? Her people decided to follow me. This is what they're going to get.

So, you know. And if, for those of you who know, you know, you know, if you know, you know. I'm like, yeah, I'm just going to do this. So it's strange. But you have to, I just have to be really smart about it so that people don't, like, find my number and call me and yell at me, which has happened before. Yeah, that's happened to you.

Like, from things that you've written on Jezbo. about certain elected officials, that elected officials fans found you and your partner's number and called you in the middle of the night to harass you. Yeah, it was, it was weird. So it's like things like that where you just don't really feel totally safe. But, yeah, I don't know. Now, everything I'm saying is like, ooh, is it worth having all these people following on the internet? Maybe not, but I can't, I mean, I can't help. I'm not going to not have a big mouth anymore. I'm just going to be a little bit more selective about what I'm a big mouth about. Yeah, I love, you know, shout out to women with big mouths who do not shut the fuck up.

May we raise them, may we be them. You know, speaking of that, like, there is one topic. So I also have a big mouth, and I use my platform to talk about whatever I want, but there has been one topic recently that I have really not spoken up about because I have seen the way that any person who speaks up about it sort of gets silenced and harassed, and that is the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial, right? So, like, I tweeted one thing, and then I quickly deleted it, and I have not tweeted anything since. But you're actually someone who really is vocal about it and, like, uses your platform to have conversations about it. And I guess I'm curious, you know, I love the internet and I'm hopeful about the

internet, but when I think about the state of the internet, specifically for survivors, I'm so concerned that we're building an internet ecosystem where it's not okay for survivors to speak up. And I'm wondering, like, what do you think about that? I think my main, I think my, like, initial thought is, like, I feel like that internet's been here for a long time. I feel like there's been, like, a movement of pushback against that, because I feel like that's the default.

The default is to silence survivors and to tell people to shut up and to, you know, do that. So I feel like there's been a movement to push against that, and I guess recently it's kind of felt like it's like faltered a little bit, you know? Just add that to the list of things to feel like a little pessimistic about. I mean, I'm ultimately an optimist, but like you see some of these like, you know, I'm not a conspiracy theory really person, but like I can't even like look up like a how to video on YouTube without being like suggested like five times Johnny Depp like totally like, you know,

owned Amber, her, you know. I'm just like I don't look up anything. thing about this. I may be like write the occasional like tweet about it but like when it's like just being infected into like your feeds and everything it's it's kind of I don't know it's it's very aggressive and kind of scary. I don't know it just seems like there's so much regression on so many different levels that like I think this is just one small part of it but yeah it's it's hard to be an optimist on the internet right now I feel like you either seeing something awful or seeing awful things happen other people and all this stuff.

But I think that's the reason why I kind of do gravitate towards these little circles I have that make me feel like, again, like safe seems like such a, feels like such a gooey word to me. But yeah, like when I see something like, when I sometimes need to stop doom scrolling and be like, let me just like talk about something really goofy. Like let me like reminisce about someone about like dash con with someone, you know, who gets it or something like that. Like, it feels nice to kind of have these weird space and all this kind of like internet history

to kind of fall back on to think of like, oh yeah, there were times with the internet was just really funny and really fun and like goofy. And there are still those times, but I don't know. Do you have a favorite goofy, funny internet moment that sticks out to you or just one that is memorable to you? God, that's a really good question. Again, we're talking about like 15 years of like,

everything that's happened on the internet. Take a fact. I'm like going through my head, like, you know. Okay, well, DashCon was obviously iconic. Anyone who was on Tumblr during DashCon knows that was maybe the most hilarious three days on the internet. Kind of sad, but like,

really funny. You know, someone asked me this recently, like, what was like one of the funniest days on the internet? And I'm like, I don't know, is it inappropriate for me to say, like, when Trump got COVID? Oh, I remember that. I'm sorry. I'm not making one.

light of that, but just like it was, that was a wild night. We can't deny that it was a wild night, right? Like, whether that's appropriate for me. It was a wild night. I remember I was still working at Decibel at the time, and I was the only one who was like up that late. My editors were all asleep and I'm like, I think I need to post this. I think I need to post this. What do I don't know how to do? Like, and like, I don't know, my one coworker who was like definitely like stone in California was like, I don't know, try it. I'm just like, I'm just going to post it. And then it was, I don't know, for some reason that was like a very dramatic. moment for me or I'm like I got to post the news.

But yeah, maybe I shouldn't say it was a funny day. It was an intense day. It was an intense night on the internet. Yeah. God, if anyone, I mean, and also any just like weird fandom thing that's happened, like, I don't know. I really look back on like some

like, I feel like I don't even have like favorite moments on the internet. I just have like really weird things I specifically remember and maybe five other people I know. know also remember you know like a weird like remember when like the supernatural fans were doing were like really into this one thing and like I wasn't even into the show but I knew about it like you know I don't know but yeah why do you think that fandom has been such a a grounding experience about how you show up online like what is it about fandom and you know nerding out about niche things

that has really solidified your online experience I think because that's where I met so many friends I've probably there are friends I met on Live Journal when I was 16 that I'm still friends with to this day we like hang out around like the city and stuff and I think that if it wasn't for making friends through these mediums like make you know I I probably wouldn't care as much it would be really easy to kind of like have like a fleeting interest in something and just kind of like going off to something else but like having friendships that you've developed over this really weird niche internet

like phenomenon is like very special. I feel like and not every most people like don't have that experience and I think that's what has kept me on the internet. It wasn't like political commentary. It wasn't like making people mad on Twitter. It was like weird fanish stuff that, you know, put me where I am now even if, you know, that's been my whole thing. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Oden-Kirke.

to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting.

Let us show you at iHeartadvertising.com. That's iHeartadvertising.com. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without. about Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stopped by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing.

That man, hell get to flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, I said, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. It's Ryder Strong and Will Ferdell from PodMeet. World. And now the Pod Meets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Like what was? Yeah.

Just because we... Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion in the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay to the desperate plea of finalists to a bunch of again, we are experts.

So make sure to tune in to PodMeets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. And I wanted to talk briefly about sort of this...

I guess I feel like we're in this very, weird moment when it comes to the internet, particularly around people who are traditionally marginalized. I know that you were among the people who were laid off at Netflix, and Netflix had hired a lot of marginalized folks, like queer folks, black women, and then laid a lot of them off. And I remember when that happened, the commentary that I saw that was sort of like, ha, ha, that's what you get, was sort of either A, was like, well, what did you expect selling out, you know, for a big platform like Netflix? Or B, like, oh, Netflix, you know, go woke, go broke, this is what they get for hiring all these people to champion

traditionally marginalized voices. I guess my question is like, why do you think that platforms like Netflix and the internet seems to be this new kind of ideological battleground where people are really hashing out these partisan ideological fights on these spaces? And it seems to be this sort of push-pull for power. Like, who has it, who doesn't have it, who can amass it? I mean, What I can speak to just the light, I mean, I can't speak in anything specifically about my situation, but like, I guess I'm just increasingly fascinated by the kind of way that, like, again, I think that this just kind of goes back to how the internet is so much bigger but feel so much smaller now. Like, you just really don't have the same kind of privacy and enclaves that you used to. Anyone who's been online since like the 2000s probably understands what I mean, where you could really kind of have your own individual spaces talking about things. And this wouldn't be something that they're talking about on cable news or that like, you know,

or a podcast or anything else. It wouldn't be like in the mainstream. So I think it's just the, there are probably other people who can talk about this way better than I can or more eloquently. But like the kind of mainstreaming of the internet and mainstreaming of internet spaces, I think has been probably one of the biggest things that we're seeing in the last, like, I don't know, decade or so, like how these kind of things that used to be things that you just to talk about, you can only really talk about with a few people end up becoming like these huge

cultural phenomenons. Sure, good things have come from it, but like, I don't know. There's something lost. There's something that's been lost, I think, in having these things kind of proliferate the mainstream. Because, yeah, there are ways in which they can be used for good. We're talking about, like, marginalized people. I remember just on Tumblr.

Marginalized people talking about their experiences, talking about, like, or just griping about something, talking about, oh. oh, why can I find things that are in my size? Like, things like those things, yeah, they became mainstream. And in some ways it's been good. In some ways, it's just been like a, you know, a magnet for harassment, a magnet for people dismissing you, a magnet for like, you know, everything else.

So it's, it really feels cliche to be like, the internet's a double-edged sword, but like, how else can you describe it? It's been the place where I've found the most important people in my life and have also experienced some of the most, like, traumatic harassing experiences of my life, you know? it's something that's been like commodified. It's something that's been like, you know, bought and sold and stuff like that.

It's just, it's a weird little place, I guess. Yeah, I feel the exact same way. And it makes me kind of sad because when I first, you know, I feel like I grew up on the internet, kind of like you have lived most of my life on the internet. In a lot of ways, it's my hometown. Yeah. And, you know, it makes me sad when I think about how I used to show up,

so hopeful, so excited. And, you know, I was, it really, the day that my parents brought me a computer, like this boxy, gray nightmare of a thing that took up our whole fucking desk. And, you know, the day that they brought that home, it was like they brought me a pair of wings. And it was just discovery. That's the only thing that I remember being the internet being about. And now, when I show up there, I'm so guarded. I'm so careful. I'm, I just don't want to be on the end of what you've just described. Harassment, pylons. And it's so much worse. bad faith, you know, attacks and stuff.

Like, I mean, I, I think we're all kind of guilty of doing this. We're all kind of guilty of, like, the easy dunk. We're all kind of guilty of the, like, look at this, like, dumb fucking tweet. Or, like, something like that. Or, like, something we think is, like, we're, none of us are innocent in that regard. I've definitely complicit. I've been a huge bitch on the internet before. And so, you know, I don't think we're above it.

I don't think that all the harassment and everything is, like, new. I think this has been happening for a long time now, especially of a little. the last decade. But I do think just for me personally, it's kind of weird that it's gotten to a point where like I regularly have to like lock my account in case like the wrong person gets it or in case like, I don't know, some right wing weirdo gets it and then it just goes into a complete other part of the internet that I don't know about. And yeah, you do have, I do have to be more guard. I can't be quite as like open about my personal life because people are weird. and, you know, I want to guard something.

So, yeah, I'll give them, like, the hot takes and, I don't know, reminiscing about old smut fan fiction from, like, 2011. I keep talking about smutty fan fiction, but really, it's a really big part of my life on the internet. But, like, the other stuff, I really have to keep closer to, you know, closer to the best. Yeah, do you, I mean, I guess that's, that really brings me

to one of my last questions. Like, are you, when you think about the state of the internet, especially for people who are traditionally marginalized, are you hopeful? Are you hopeful that it will be a place where folks can find their, find community and find their shared interests, whether it's politics or activism or, you know, smut? Are you hopeful of the internet being like a place for self-discovery, particularly for people who are traditionally marginalized? I think I'm like, mm-hmm, goes back to that kind of response. I mean, I mean, marginalized people are always going to find communities online. And I think that that's like a really beautiful.

thing. I think that that's important. I don't think that that should, I don't think that the bad stuff online has diminished that. People are always going to find, whether it's like, I don't know, whether it's people who are marginalized, whether it's people who are just really into some like K-pop group. Everyone will go, all the

stands will find, everyone will find their people. But I just think that gone are the days where you can kind of feel like you're insulated. And there is a comfort in being insulated. And now you can't even be like, a weirdo online if the wrong person finds it. And it's just like, look at these guys over here.

And it's like, I'm just over here hanging out. Like, let me be weird in this quarter. I'm not bothering you. So that's gotten harder with, you know, the internet just isn't as private as it used to be. Yeah, I once interviewed this amazing internet historian Claire Evans. And she said that it's interesting that the internet used to be where you went to be anonymous and the real world was where you went to be like who, like who you are. And now it's completely flipped. The internet is where you go to be like really manacled to your government name. And the real world is where you go to experience anonymity. And it's so interesting that we're in this space where it's been completely flipped.

Like back in the day when I was first exploring the internet, it felt like discovery and anonymity. And like, you know, this is going to sound very cheesy, but like the old days of like the hacker online and like black leather fingerless gloves. Like I'm logging on. Exactly, right? Like that was the internet experience. I feel like I was signing up for when I was younger.

And these days, that is a fiction, that is no longer what we have. And I don't know what that says about the state of the internet today and how we all show up on it. But I'm really hopeful to carve out those spaces that feel like discovery and joy and connection and anonymity if that's what you want. And I'm hopeful that we can really preserve that feeling for the next generation online. I hope so. I guess we need to find like a deviant art. whatever for like the zoomers or something. Again, if you know, you know. Oh, I know. But yeah, no, I think like, you know, the internet, I would like it to be, I know a place where,

yeah, we're going to be able to have to share among like different spaces, but I would hope that it also can be more of a space for people can enjoy and partake in harmless fun without feeling like they're going to be like violated, you know. We deserve that. We deserve to have internet spaces where we can partake in whatever nerdy, harmless fun we want without feeling like we're going to get violated. Exactly. Ashley, where can folks keep up with all the amazing stuff that you're up to? Okay, you can follow me at Offbeat Orbit on Twitter, Instagram, stuff like that. I don't use Tumblr anymore, but now I'm like, maybe I need to go back. It might be time for a Tumblr revival. Like, I kind of peaked around for a little bit, like a couple weeks ago.

I'm like, okay, the girls are still on here, like really like causing havoc. Like, let's tap in. So, you know, but I'll say if you type in Ashley Reese anywhere, I should post. pop up, talk about lack of anonymity. I'm at that point now. Give it up for Ashley Rees. Thank you. Well, thank you all for listening. And thank you, Ashley, for being here.

If you want to hear more conversations about the experience of being a traditionally and historically, historically marginalized person online, you can subscribe to my podcast on IHeartRadio. It's called There Are No Girls on the Internet, and we would love to have you there. My name is Bridget Todd. This has been amazing.

Thank you so much for having me. Goodbye. And if you want to talk about weird fan fiction, you can also find me. I'm in the jumpsuit. Yes. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoody.com slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangooty.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangooty.com.

There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Richard Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, write and review us on Apple Podcasts.

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