There Are No Girls on the Internet - Ashley St. Clair Apologized. Elon Musk Threatened to Take Her Kid

Episode Date: January 20, 2026

Right-wing influencer Ashley St. Clair has a long history of transphobic behavior, including authoring a children’s book promoting those views. When she recently expressed regret for that past behavior, Elon Musk threatened to petition for sole custody of the child they share. Parker Molloy — writer and editor of the popular newsletter The Present Age — joins me to grapple with St. Clair’s apology, what accountability can look like in the public eye, and what happens when someone attempts to step off the outrage machine that once rewarded them. Read Parker’s piece: A Conservative Influencer Apologized for Her Anti-Trans Past. Elon Musk Is Trying to Take Her Kidhttps://www.readtpa.com/p/a-conservative-influencer-apologized Parker previously worked at Media Matters. You can listen to our deep dive into Elon Musk’s legal attacks on the organization here:https://omny.fm/shows/there-are-no-girls-on-the-internet/elon-musk-boosts-antisemitic-tweet-and-advertisersSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. There are no girls on the internet as a production of IHeart Radio, and unbossed creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Ashley St. Clair is a right-wing influencer. She even wrote a kid's book called Elephants Are Not Birds, which is a pretty thinly veiled anti-trans metaphor. In 2024, Ashley had a baby with Elon Musk,

a fact that she kept private for nearly a year. Musk offered her $15 million plus $100,000 per month in child support in exchange for signing an NDA and never revealing his paternity. She refused, saying that she didn't want her son to feel like a secret. What followed, according to Ashley, was retaliation, financially, publicly, and technologically. Musk's company, X, allowed his AI chatbot, Grok, to generate sexualized images of her, including depictions based on photos for when Ashley was a minor. After she complained, her account was demonetized and stripped of premium features.

Last week, Ashley filed a lawsuit against X. And now, Elon Musk is saying that he plans to seek sole custody of their son, who Ashley says he's only ever met a handful of times. Now, Musk is citing Ashley's regret over her past transphobic behavior as evidence that she intends to transition their one-year-old child. even though she never said any such thing. Now this episode is not just about Ashley St. Clair. It's about what happens when the same outrage machine

that rewards cruelty turns on one of its own and what it means when someone tries to step off of it. My name is Parker Malloy. My pronouns are she, her. And I'm a writer. I write a newsletter called The Present Age. In a piece for her popular newsletter, The Present Age,

called a conservative influencer apologized for her anti-transpast. Elon Musk is trying to take her kid. Parker grappled with Ashley's apology and asks, if someone expresses regret for their past harmful behavior, shouldn't we be listening? I have been following your work for a while. I mean, I don't mean this in a creepy way. I feel like you have really been on the cutting edge of a lot of stuff,

like, you know, leaving a larger outlet and doing your own thing. I feel like you were one of the first writers I really saw in that space. Yeah, you know, because it was, it was 2021 when I made the move, because before writing the present age, I was the editor at large. I was trying to remember the title editor at large of Media Matters for America, and which was this, you know, for those who don't know, it's this progressive media watchdog group, which basically, involved a lot of watching like Fox News and reading Breitbart and basically stewing in the

right-wing media ecosystem. So all of the things that would make you, make you sad and angry, I was there to watch and read them. And so I kind of, when I left, when I left Media Matters in 2021 to start my own thing, it was kind of scary, but it also kind of, opened up the, uh, opened up for the ability for me to kind of write about a little bit, whatever I want, not necessarily stay super focused on right wing media. Like being able to, to, to talk about things that are happening in culture, tech, journalism, politics, whatever it may be, and not having to tie it back to and here's what

Fox News had to say or something like that, uh, was, was really freeing. I can only imagine, and you really are somebody that really threads the needle of all those different things you were talking about, media, tech, politics, social issues, culture so well. In the piece that you wrote about Ashley St. Clair, I feel like that is a great example of what I mean. In the piece, I love the framing that you use because you describe it as this engagement machine that you in your own career spent a lot of time writing about identifying and breaking it down where conservative media. of figures are able to really just deploy anti-trans rhetoric for clout and cash. So first off, what is the machine? Like for people who are like, the machine, what are they talking about? Break it down for us. Sure. So basically, I mean, we all know that since Elon Musk took over Twitter in 2022,

he's kind of molded it into his own, his own nightmare factory that is just an algorithm that is based entirely on what he wants to see. But even before that, outrage has always done really well on the internet. Divisiveness. You know, that's why when people post on, you know, social media and they want engagement, they'll say unpopular opinion and then just share their opinion instead of just saying what their opinion is. Like they say unpopular opinion because they want people to be like, well, I disagree with

this. So I'm going to engage with it. And I'm going to, you know, these are, those are harmless things generally. But in the right wing media ecosystem, you know, it's, you know, these sorts of things can really influence policy and public opinion. And I think over the past five to probably five, seven years or so, their work trying to demonize trans people, you know, by either by pointing to,

you know, edge cases of, you know, people being inappropriate or, like, seeking out people who commit crimes and being like, this is what, you know,

this is what all trans people are like and highlighting that, you know, is really hurt public perception of trans people. And it's not, it's not a new thing. You know, Breitbart.

for instance, the right-wing publication, used to have a tab on its website that was just black crime, and it was just crime committed by black people. And that was the whole thing, the whole purpose of that, to see a feat of this, is to try to get you to think, this whole group, something's wrong with this group of people.

And that's what they do to trans people. And that's what they do to, you know, you see these social media, attacks going out, you know, currently happening to Somalis in Minnesota, you know, or Haitians in Ohio before the 2024 election where, you know, they would just kind of come out there and throw out something that was obviously false. You know, they're eating pets, stuff like that, where it's meant to smear an entire group, you know, whether it's built on facts or not. And so the thing with the Ashley St. Clair story, which I can, should I explain it real quick?

Sure. Okay, cool. So basically, Ashley St. Clair is a conservative influencer. And she had also, she had a baby with Elon Musk in 2024, which he has a lot of babies. Yes, he does. So she's also the author of an anti-trans children's book called Elephants Are Not Birds. But earlier this month, Musk's AI chatbot Groch was used to generate sexualized images of her in addition to, like, a bunch of women and children, including some based on photos from when she was 14. When she complained about this, the platform stripped her of her blue verification badge, demonetized her account, and took away all the premium features.

Then, you know, after that, she posted an apology for her past anti-trans rhetoric and acknowledged Musk's trans daughter Vivian as her son's sister. So Musk responds to this by announcing that he's filing for full custody, claiming that Ashley wants to transition their one-year-old, which she never said anything like that. But that's kind of the story at play, and it's been really interesting because for so long, she, You know, she benefited from this system. You know, she got her start at Turning Point USA with Charlie Kirk's organization but was dropped in 2019 after she was photographed at a dinner with white nationalists. So it's like she was really deep in this conservative media ecosystem. But what I decided to write about was how as a trans person,

as someone who's watched a lot of like really awful things said about trans people and who was very aware of elephants are not birds when it came out. I saw that and someone asked me like, what do you think of, you know, what do you think of her apology, her walking back some of the things she said about trans people? On X, Ashley St. Clair seems to contend with her past behavior. When asked how she now feels about trans people, after having engaged in such blatant transphobia, she said, quote, I feel immense guilt for my role, and even more guilt that things I said in the past may have caused my son's sister more pain. Referring to Elon's daughter Vivian, who is trans.

I don't really know how to make amends for many of these things, but I have been trying incredibly hard privately to learn and advocate for those within the trans community that I've heard. I also haven't said much on this because I have gone back and forth over whether my voice would be helpful on this issue since it will be framed as disingenuous or just turning because I am scorned. Even this reply will become right-wing hysteria, but yeah, I am sorry. Let me know how I can help.

Parker really thought hard about Ashley's apology. My initial reaction, reading that was, you know, kind of, like there are two ways to go about this. You can either view that as like, well, this person has been horrible about trans issues. Why should I trust them? How do I know they're sincere? And how do I know that they'll do the right thing or whatever?

But I wanted to kind of force myself to really think about this, to be like, things are bad for trans people right now. isn't it good that someone, even if it's only because Elon Musk took away their blue check mark and demonetize them, isn't it still a good thing if someone comes around on this issue and was like, you know what,

I realized that it was a bit much. Maybe I need to kind of walk that back. You know, it's one of those things that I want to encourage more people to take that approach, to feel like they can. change on an issue and people won't bite their heads off. And, you know, because it's not fun getting yelled at on the internet. And, you know, I've learned that over the years.

Did you ever think you'd see the day where you find yourself acknowledging the apology of somebody with a history like Ashley St. Clairs? Having to write something sympathetic about someone who wrote elephants or not birds, you know, it was a little hard, you know, but I had to sit with it, but I kept coming back to this question, like, what do I actually want? Do I want to punish people who used to hold bad views or do I want fewer people to hold bad views? So if it's the latter, I have to leave room for people to change. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan

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That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

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stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. At our back. One of the points that you make in the piece is taking it back to this concept of the machine. You write, you're valuable as long as you're producing content that feeds the outrage cycle.

The moment you deviate, the moment you express doubt or empathy or heaven-forbidden apology, you become the content. The same people who cheered your attacks on trans kids will turn those same weapons on you. And even in what she wrote, St. Clair seems very aware of that reality herself. She says, oh, as soon as I say anything, this is going to feed the right-wing outrage machine. And by golly, she was right.

Well, yeah. I mean, there's one example of this that comes to mind. It was probably back in, I'd say, somewhere 2017, 2018, somewhere during Trump's first term. Tommy Laren, the right-wing commentator, she went on the view. And while on the view, she mentioned that she's personally pro-choice. And afterwards, she got, like,

the entire right-wing apparatus kind of came at her. She got fired from her job at The Blaze, a conservative outlet. people were like, I'm no longer going to support you. And she kind of had to disappear for a little bit before, you know, all she, all she did was she just kind of stopped talking about abortion as a whole and kept giving Fox News what they wanted because she went on to work for Fox News. And like, she's still really conservative. And she says a lot of things that I strongly disagree with and I think are bigoted. But it was really interesting to watch what happened when she stepped.

just a little bit outside of what they were comfortable with. Like she was just saying her personal position was that she's pro-choice. Like she still supported all the anti-choice politicians. But it wasn't enough that she supported those politicians and their policies, but that she had to personally buy into what they were saying and not speak out against it in any way. You know, people criticize the left a lot for being like, oh, the left is so stuck on, you know, having, everyone needs to have the right positions and everyone needs to have, you know, stand for the right things. There's no, there's no diversity

of thought on the left, but it's just like, there absolutely is. On the right, it's, it's restrictive is, you know, so I don't know. And part of me looks like that. And I see people who are so so committed to transphobia or things like that. And oftentimes I will wonder, doesn't this get old after a while for them? Don't they want to evolve or just sort of be done with this? And I wonder if this fear of themselves becoming content for the machine might keep people who otherwise might evolve or move on or like be ready for just a different conversation for themselves kind of locked into this level of outrage all the time. Yeah. I mean, you have to keep the thing about the outrage machine is that you have to keep one-uping yourself.

And you'll see this with creators all the time. Nick Fuentes, he's a great example of this. As someone who, I mean, he's very racist. He's a white nationalist. He's popular on the right. And watching his career over the past six or seven years as well has been really interesting because he's had to keep one-upping himself and taking increasingly more extreme positions, you know, to the point where now it's just him saying things just to kind of shock people.

He was saying Jeffrey Epstein was actually really cool and he's supported Hitler and he's, He says all of these things that are just completely outrageous, but it's his brand. And it's what the people who give him money that pay his bills want him to say. And if he stopped saying it, if he had this moment of clarity and he said, you know what, I've been a horrible, racist, terrible bigot my entire professional life, I need to fix that. every, like all of his followers would turn on him instantly.

And to some extent, it's like, I understand that sort of audience capture where you build an audience who expects something of you. And if you start to give them something different, you can't really be surprised when, when your, your audience stops paying or stops reading or listening to you or watching you. Like if,

uh, if tomorrow I decided to turn the president of, present age into a baseball blog, which I love baseball. But I feel like if I wrote about nothing but baseball, I would lose a lot of the people who read my work because I write about politics and media and, you know, and culture in a way that they benefit from or they can connect with. So it's one of those things where it's like, I do understand feeling sort of trapped by what your audience expects from you. And I think that that's why there are some really extreme content creators out there who just kind of keep getting pushed into more and more absurd positions. You know, over the weekend, I saw a video of some concerns.

There was Andrew Kate, Nick Fuentes, Sneco, and, like, a few other right-wing content creators. Like, they were at, like, a club in Miami listening to one of the, like, the Hitler song that Kanye West made. And they were doing, like, there was videos of them doing, like, the, like, Hitler salutes and stuff like that. And it's just, like, how do you get, how do you get to that point, you know, to where you're like, this is not.

only something I'm going to do, but I'm going to film myself doing this and put it on the internet for literally, like, that's the type of thing that I feel like 10 years ago, people would have been trying their hardest to hide from the internet, not posting it themselves. But this is kind of what happens with this machine. It takes you and it keeps prodding you to be more extreme. and I was just really shocked to see someone take the opposite side of that. You know, I'm sure that Ashley Sinclair, like, there's no money to be made on being someone who supports trans people. Like, there's no money, there's no fame to come from this, you know.

The opposite is true. There's a lot of money to be made for being transphobic. You know, you can be Riley Gaines and make, like, $400,000 a year for coming in fifth place in a swim meet. So it's one of those things where it's like there's, when someone does the right thing, despite there being financial incentives to do the opposite, I feel like it's worth calling out and being like, cool. I hope more people are like this.

And that's what I tried to do. I, for side note, I was just thinking of that video of them out at that club. It didn't even look like a good time. That was the other thing. I was like, this doesn't even seem like a fun night out to. me. No. Like,

I mean, maybe I'm just getting old. But I, I watch that and I'm just like, this, this just doesn't seem fun. Like, they're,

they're putting on a performance, basically, you know, and it's just like, I wouldn't ever want, I don't know. I, it's hard to put myself in that,

in that headspace. Like, I can't imagine being like, time to film my content in the club. No matter what the content is. Same, same, same. And to your point about sort of turning the lens on people who are showing that they're able to evolve, I like, I like that in your piece, you go out of your way to be like, listen, I'm not saying she deserves a medal for getting here.

But, you know, when I first were reading about Ashley St. Clair and her apology, I was like, well, would she be doing this if she weren't scorn by Musk? if, like, Musk was continuing to, like, give her money for the kid and was, like, treating her well, would we be having this conversation? And you were, like, ultimately, people change their minds for all kinds of different reasons. Like, sometimes it's because you saw what they, that that person has turned their behavior on you, but it doesn't feel so good. It might not be the world's most noble path to empathy, but it is a path. Can you tell me more about how you got there? So, so I've been thinking about times on, like, here's an example. example of something that happened to me recently.

So I usually for social media these days, I use blue sky. That's just where I'm like most comfortable posting stuff about my life, my days, you know, whatever, whatever I'm doing. A few weeks back, I had a situation where I upset a bunch of people on blue sky because I made like, there was someone on Twitter who made, made a mod for the game Animal Crossing, where it took one of the cartoon characters, who's a dog, and it gave her like an hourglass figure.

And I saw this, and I was like, this is just kind of ridiculous. I was like, why would someone make this? This is very silly. And so I posted on Blue Sky, and I just wrote, why, though? And people were like, why are you questioning why someone would make this? Do you hate furries? And I was like, furies, what does this have to do with fur? And they're like, well, it's a dog.

And the person who made the mod is apparently a furry. And it's like, I didn't know any of that. But I had people yelling at me and were very angry about this in my mentions. And there did come a point where I was like, my instinct was to be like, you know what? I didn't have anything against furries, but maybe now I do. Like, that was that thought that was in there. And I'm like, that's not a good thought. My opinion about a group, whether I understand that group, whether I don't understand that group or not,

should not be determined by how someone talks to me on the internet. But at the same time, I think it's important to understand that people do react to how others respond to them. And if the response from all trans people to her apology, which, you know, you know, seems like it was heartfelt, like seems like she means it. You know, if every response from a trans person was like, you know, no, we don't forgive you.

You're terrible. You're horrible. Like, there's no incentive to actually change. And so I tried to look at it from that point of view. And it was helpful. I think that it was right after the thing where I had people piling on me on blue sky. But, you know, it's, and I've also seen,

I've also seen many people do something where they'll say something sort of insensitive about trans people. And a bunch of trans people will then respond to them online and say like, you're horrible, you're terrible, this is bigoted. and they might have meant well, maybe they didn't mean well, maybe they're just kind of like, they don't really have an opinion, but they said something's kind of, kind of sloppy.

And I've watched as people have gone from being like, I'm just trying to be, you know, I'm just trying to interact with the world and understand what's going on, and I don't really have any strong opinions on this topic. I've watched people go from that to being like hardcore committed anti-transact, advocates because they're like trans people annoyed me online one day and like and it it

radicalized me to be more extreme you know like that I've seen that happen and while it's it's one of those things where it's like I don't it's not that I want to like coddle people who who have bad opinions but sometimes I I think the like jumping at someone's throat might not be the best approach, but especially when someone is apologizing. So it's one of those things that it's just like, you know, was her apology sincere?

Maybe it is. I don't know what's in her heart. I'm not going to pretend I do. But I think the question of sincerity is less important than people assume. If she's telling the truth, great. She's not. She'll reveal that eventually.

And in the meantime, the apology itself is useful. You know, it models what it looks like to say I was wrong publicly. And that, I think, has value regardless of her private motivations. And frankly, if we demand perfect motives before we accept an apology, we're never going to accept any apologies. People change their minds for messy, self-centered reasons all the time. That doesn't make the change less real.

More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group.

The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The yard herds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard, but they're open.

Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcast. Podcasting, think again.

More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartadvertising.com.

That's iHeartadvertising.com. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicleaf 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. but grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. I'm curious, what has the reaction been like to your piece?

You know, it's been kind of like mostly positive. Mostly like I've had people saying that that piece made them feel hopeful because it is helpful to see like some people who seemed so lost in the anti-trans, you know, environment like pulling back from that. And I've seen some, you know, gotten some, like, messages from, especially from like a few other trans people who are just like, you know what, I see what you wrote. And while I understand it, I don't necessarily agree because, you know,

it's one of those things like, oh, are we supposed to give a medal to every person who was horrible and it's now less horrible? It's like, no, not. And I make a point of saying that. saying like, no, you're not getting like a parade. But if you want to, if you want to be less terrible about this issue and hopefully other issues, she's also, I watched an interview with her where she talked about how her views on immigration have also changed where she's like, I used to be very, you know, very hardline on

immigration. Then she's kind of shifted over the course of the past few years. So, you know, hopefully these things are, you know, these things are real, but we'll see. Here's where I have to admit that my initial reaction to Ashley St. Clair's issues was an eye roll. This was before she was making any kind of public amends for her behavior. It was an article I saw in the Daily Mail where she was talking about selling her Tesla after she said that Musk was financially retaliating against her son with a whopping, 60% cut that Elon had made to their son's child support. Now, at the time, I remember thinking,

what exactly did she expect? There is more than enough of a public record of how Musk treats the women in his life, especially the ones who have his children. So we're meant to be sympathetic to her that this didn't work out? Give me a break, I thought. Her interpersonal drama is her problem, and she brought it on herself. But thinking about it further, I realized I was giving Musk exactly what he wants. Because this is not just an isolated interpersonal thing with Musk. It encapsulates exactly how his interpersonal behavior ends up playing out in ways that ultimately harm the public. And to just relegate them to, quote, his private life, misses the ways that he's terrorizing people, women and trans folks, both privately and publicly, in ways that are linked. Your piece in some ways

kind of put me personally in my place in a sort of way because when I was first reading about Ashley St. Clair, sort of like speaking up about Musk, she was doing a little thing where she was selling her Tesla because she said, oh, Elon is not, you know, supporting me. And I had such a bitchy reaction. I was like, well, what the hell did she expect getting a mixed up with Elon and Musk? I'm supposed to be sympathetic to this person. Like, what did she expect? And I, I, when I read your piece, it really made me question what that reaction was about. I'm with you. I'm saying that she deserves a medal, but, you know, I think I was really quick to say the way that Elon Musk is treating this person and her child is not my business, nothing to do with me. She brought

it on herself. Da-da-da-da. And I think it, looking at what he's actually doing, you know, allowing his chatbot to make these images of her, which are really inappropriate and sexualizing without her consent. And we know that's not just Ashley. This is happening to women and girls in mass on X at a rate of one non-consensual sexualized image a minute. This court strategy probably of like spending down the amount of money that she has to fight him in court.

Like these are not personal issues. These are kind of microchasms of how he does business. Yeah. I was like, like, why am I so unwilling to deal with that because I don't like this person. You know what I mean? I don't know if that makes sense. Oh, no, absolutely.

And yeah, I mean, the way that he exerts power is by, you know, he'll sue someone. And then whether or not it's a legitimate lawsuit that he's filing, he has infinite money. And the people that he's suing don't. You know, and that's how, you know, back to media matters where I used to work. Media Matters reported on, after Musk took over Twitter and he started changing the algorithm, there were some instances where there were pro-Nazi comments that were showing up next to ads, which typically brands don't like that. And so Media Matters published a piece where they were like, check out these instances of, you know,

here's a pro-Nazi post and here's the Apple ad that's above. You know, like, and so all these advertisers left. And then Elon Musk sued media matters for reporting on that, saying that they cost him advertisers, which they probably did. But at the same time, it was because they were doing reporting and it was honest reporting. We actually did a deep dive into Elon Musk's court strategy in his attacks on media matters, which will put in the show notes. He doesn't care. He knows that he can just wear them down. and push them into debt.

And they ended up having to lay off a bunch of people, which was really sad. There are a lot of people who, you know, probably a couple dozen people who lost their jobs because Media Matters has to get real lean to fight this lawsuit and not actually focus on its mission. And so, like, so seeing that and seeing him do that, Like, I think it's important to understand that it's just like, what he's doing is evil.

Yeah. And, you know, but at the same time, I think that there's right now, like, we kind of live in this world where I've noticed there are a lot of times where people online will see some, see some tragedy befall someone who they would disagree with, you know, a flood in a red sea. state, for instance, something like that. And people will go, well, that's what you get for voting for whatever. And, you know, or, you know, natural disaster or the job market screwed up because of a policy that they supported. And people just are like, well, you know, play stupid games, win stupid prizes, FAA, FO, you know, like that sort of approach. And I, I, I don't know. It all just feels kind of mean and pointless, you know, because, like, someone may have voted for Trump. I still don't think that that means they deserve for their house to burn down or, you know, something like that. Someone may have said, you know, may have taken some really horrible anti-trans, racist, anti-immigration. points of view stances,

but I still don't think that they should be crushed by Elon Musk or have their child taken away or or any of this stuff. Like I think it's important that we all kind of push for the type of world that we want it to be, you know, that we want to live in. And sometimes, you know, I think it's, It can be difficult to try to find empathy when a,

when reacting in anger or frustration or, you know, just, you know, happiness even. You know, if you're, if someone feels happy that someone else has experienced something bad, it's like, that's way easier than extending empathy and being like, oh, wow, that must really suck. So I don't know. And it's not on me. Like, I can only speak for myself. And that's all I tried to do in that piece I wrote was just like, this is how I feel. And I'm not going to say someone's wrong if they see her apology.

And they're like, no, I don't buy it. Like, that's fine. That's a legitimate position, I think. But I wanted to push myself out of my comfort zone a little bit and be, like, yes, here's this person who wrote this anti-trans book that was really mean-spirited. And it's a children's book. I think I'm going to challenge myself to try to be like, cool. Good for her.

I hope she sticks with it. If she doesn't, I won't exactly be surprised. But I can at least say that I extended some empathy here, you know? Yeah. I've really been, I really identify with what you're saying. I've been on a personal journey of trying to exercise my, or just keep exercising my empathy muscle. And it was because of exactly what you just described.

Our current situation is not great. It's not great for if you are any kind of a marginalized or like a normalized person if you're trans, queer, black, a woman. But really, I think we're all in a fucking going to hell in a handbasket. It's not having a good time. And I realized I was catching myself. It was like the voice in my head was no longer connected to my own humanity. And it's like ultimately people who are Trump voters or people who are like transphobic and horrible and bigoted.

It's not even really about them. It's about me. Like I caught myself being the kind of person who I didn't recognize like wishing for bad things for people. And I'm really trying to not be in that space because that's not who I want to be. It's not really even about them. Exactly. It affects you. Not like how you respond to something that you see from someone you don't know.

You know, because that's also the thing about like how we interact with the world now. We're exposed to so many people's opinions about literally everything. And not only that, but you can go on Twitter and you could search for a topic and specifically. specifically seek out opinions that will make you mad. Like, like, there is an unending well of rage on the internet, like that you can just, you can always find something to be angry about. And I just, I really for a long time struggled with how to take in all of this stuff that I find, insulting or hurtful or offensive. And I think part of it might be that because of the background I have, you know, at

media matters where the primary news sources that I would consult were the right-wing news sources that were like straight up anti-trans, trans people don't exist, saying that trans people mutilate themselves. You know, like all of these really intense things. And the funny thing is there would still be people who are just like, oh, you don't want to hear the point of you as someone who disagrees with you or something. That like, oh, you're afraid to hear you're afraid to hear. Kick it out of your silo? Yeah.

And it's like, no, the silo I've built is very much out. Like, I am living in someone else's silo and it is not fun, you know. But I think that that kind of primed me to when I stopped working at media matters to try to shift how I think about other random people on the internet. You know, if someone's on TV, you know, like, I think it's fair to be like, I am angry at this elected politician who has implemented a policy that I think is harming people. because those politicians absolutely exist. And it's good to be upset about those politicians because that sort of frustration and anger can be used for positive things. You can, you know, you can call your member of Congress.

You can, you know, do all sorts of things. But when it comes to like just seeing regular people online, even ones who have horrible views on things, I think it was important to just kind of accept that it's just like, you know what, they're not worth getting angry about. Like, you don't have to be like, what they're doing is great,

and I'm happy about it. But I think it's important to not get consumed with the thoughts of a random person on the internet, who may or may not believe, what they're saying, but is just posting to maybe get, you know, a rise out of some people. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

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Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard. They're open. Do you have a name suggestion?

We're open. Since you guys are middle aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app. podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Huber me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again.

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That's 844-8-4-I-Hart. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, Follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the iHeart radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. Well, speaking of people who post to get a rise out of people, let's talk about, like, who I consider to be the ultimate, the world's ultimate troll, Elon Musk. You know, we talked about this on the show, but when back when Elon Musk first decided

to buy Twitter, was first talking about it, per, like, court filings, the reason why was really rooted in transphobia, like explicitly. And if this is not me saying this, it's like part of the public record. And I did not often see this reported that, you know, people talked about it like a tech leader business decision kind of thing when they were reporting on it. But they didn't talk about this like known thing that this decision was rooted in. Why do you think that is? Well, I think part of it is that like, I mean going back like to like before, before Musk bought Twitter, even.

There would be like New York Times articles where people would say there was one that asked the question like has Muskreys veiled himself as a conservative? No, not so fast.

And I would make the argument that he was like, his politics are completely unknowable. And it's like, no, they're pretty knowable. I mean, I think that one of the reasons that the anti-trans stuff

kind of got lost in it is that the people in in positions of influence and power at news organizations like the New York Times, Washington Post. I think that they're just kind of indifferent to trans people at best. You know, it's one of those things where they very clearly view being anti-trans as a completely valid viewpoint that shouldn't negatively affect someone. And they kind of just go, well, that's his view and that's fine. It's, it's, it's one of those things that it was, it's frustrating as a, as a trans person who, who used to be on Twitter all the time, who I would, I would post something.

It would be shared thousands of times. It would have a bunch of likes. It would have so many replies from people. And not in like, you were like Twitter famous. Yeah. Like I, I, I, I like to be like back in. the day, you know, back in the day, there was one time where the official Twitter, like, account interviewed Chrissy Teigen, who was also very, very famous on Twitter in addition to being famous in real life, where they asked her like, if Twitter was a party, who would you invite? And she said my name on there. Oh my God. I was like, oh my God, that's so crazy. So, yeah. So it was like Twitter was great.

And he took it over to pretty much strip away everything that I liked about it. When Twitter implemented a rule against misgendering and dead naming trans people, you know, in terms of targeted harassment, like, that was, it was one of those rules where I made the argument. I wrote a piece for the New York Times at the time that was like, yeah, Yeah, putting in this rule in place could allow us to have more open, more, you know, thoughtful conversations about trans people and real areas of contention. I think, you know, and the examples I used, I was just like, yeah, if someone has, you know, there's a discussion to be had about, you know, trans people in sports. There's a discussion to be had about, you know, what kind of health care people should be able to receive and when. And we can discuss, you know, all those things.

But if we're going to start with like just repeating over and over, you know, I don't think trans people are real or I'm going to scream at you and call you, you know, I'm going to call you a man and I'm just going to yell at you on the internet. It's like all that does is that that pushes trans people. people out of the conversation entirely because it's not fun to get harassed on the internet. And people, it was, it was really frustrating that people would take that, you know, what, what Musk was implementing, which was like getting rid of all those rules and just letting it be kind of open season on trans people. He even made it where if you, if you say the word cis or cisgender, like, it, doesn't show up for anyone on Twitter.

It gets labeled as being hateful and can't be retweeted by anyone. So it's one of those things where he clearly was rigging it against trans people, making it hard to have conversations on there. And eventually, most trans people just kind of left Twitter because it wasn't productive. It wasn't helpful. And it just fed you all of the worst things, possible. You know, it became the platform

became libs of TikTok, basically. That was kind of it. And that shut down speech. That made speech on Twitter less free than it was before. Because if you have people who feel like they can't participate in the conversation,

because of the toxic environment that you've created, you're not having an open dialogue. It's not the time. square. It's just an anti-trans platform. And it's designed to spread anti-trans content and push actual

trans people off of it. And, you know, he does this with any issue he cares about. And he tweaks the algorithm. He, you know, his GROC chatbot has been lobotomized

and retrained using Grogopedia. so that it no longer will respond to questions about trans people using what is said on Wikipedia, but instead goes with this anti-trans page that's been like written up on the Grockapedia site. So it will, it parrots back what Elon Musk believes as though it's like a fact. But it, you know, it's his belief and he's more than welcome to have his beliefs. But at the same time, it's kind of like watching, watching him trying to tweak it to get the response. that he wants specifically is is kind of evil.

But, you know, that's what he's doing. And that's what he bought right from the start. It was like, this is a political project. He's doing it to try to mainstream his thoughts as though they're the public's thoughts. And, you know, there was that day where Grok wouldn't stop talking about white genocide in South Africa.

You know, where every, you'd ask a question about about football and it'd be like, yeah, here's this, here's the response. And then also, did you know that currently in South Africa, you know, white, white people are fleeing and, you know, like all this stuff that was just like a weird conspiracy theory was just baked into grok at that point. And so I think it's important that people realize that these, you know, these, these tech billionaires, you know, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, you know, those guys like, they, they own the platforms in part

so they can assert their political views on the rest of the world. And it's definitely worth keeping in mind because I think a lot of people will be like, well, no, Elon is for free speech, even though once a week he'll post something saying that a teacher teaching that America isn't the greatest should be tried with treason and murdered.

Like he'll say something completely, completely. ridiculous like that, but, you know, which is very not free speech. In your piece, you end it by talking about, you know, if Ashley wants to keep talking about this and like wants to actually know, like, what it is she can do now to sort of make amends for her previous, you know, transphobia, it looks like continuing to talk, right? It looks like talking about how you went from publishing a transphobic kid's book to then using the correct pronouns for your kid's sister, right? Like, Because people like you and people like me,

we're probably not going to be the ones to change people's minds, but she might. Yeah. Well, exactly. And that's kind of the thing. Like there are times where I'll think to myself, like, I can't, you know, like, I will think to myself that, like, oh, wow, it would be helpful if someone who wasn't trans could make this art.

argument in trans people's favor, you know, this, that sort of thing. Like, there will be times where I know that there's a immediately because I, because I'm trans, if I, if I say something like, oh, actually, and, you know, clarify some, some misinformation that I see, like, there will be people who go, well, you, you clearly have, have an agenda here because of who you are. and I can't take this at face value. But if you have someone who was anti-trans, who had changed their views, like, yeah,

I think that, like, they have a better chance of getting through to people who view trans people with suspicion, you know, at minimum. And, you know, who could kind of be like, yeah, it is a little strange that we're focused, you know, we're obsessed with this, like, one percent of the population. and constantly talking about ways

to try to push them out of public life, why are we doing that? And like asking people to kind of consider the, you know, why people in, you know, positions of power in the country want to keep having that conversation instead of tackling, you know, dealing with affordability or, you know, talking about, you know, dealing with climate change or any of these, like, real problems that affects people,

you know, in real ways, it affect all of us, it affect a lot of people. You know, they'd rather just say, no, no, no, you should focus on this group because this group is, is harming you in ways that we can't really, we can't really specify, but we're just going to keep talking about them in this scary sort of way. You know, like, that's kind of the,

the reality, you know, so it's helpful, I think, for there to be people who are like, yeah, I used to buy into all that stuff, but I don't anymore. And here's why. So it's like, yeah, if she wants to keep talking about this, I think that would be great. Just be honest. And I don't, one thing I want to make clear is like,

I think that there is definitely a spot that exists between being like hardcore anti-trans and someone who will like shout out like slogans and you know things like you know like saying like trans women are women like that's more of a slogan

than anything that has to do with politics like it's not it's not particularly important to me if if a politician sees trans women as actually women or trans men as actually men like I would Obviously, like, I think more people should view trans people as who we say we are.

But at the same time, it's like, I'm mostly concerned about, like, the efforts to restrict, you know, access to health care or discreet, non-discrimination protections in work and in public accommodations and, you know, just being able to live lives. And, like, I don't need someone to completely buy in and, you know, buy in to, like, everything that every trans person says. So I think it's important having people out there who maybe aren't entirely super on board, but maybe just have been like a single trans person came into my life and it made me rethink how I view all of this.

You know, it made me, it humanized the issue for me. Because I think that that's a big, big thing. That's, you know, part of the reason that gay rights advanced as quickly as they did there's more people started to meet, know someone who was gay. And trans rights, you know, the people who support trans rights the most are people who know a trans person. And so it's more difficult for trans people because we're such a small portion of the population. Plus, you don't necessarily know if every single person that you're talking to who is trans, whether they're trans.

You know, because not everyone walks around and announces it. where they go. So it's, it's, it's going to be difficult to kind of fight back against a lot of the, a lot of the anti-trans stuff that's happening now. And really, I think that we can just kind of use all the help we can get. So she wants to keep talking about this and wants to, you know, explain how she got from one point of view to another. Like, I think that's good and that's helpful. And, you know, more credit to her if she does. And if she doesn't, that's, still, that's still fine. She, she tried to make amends for, you know, her past positions and all she can do is try to do better moving forward. Parker, you're, you're such a thoughtful

person. I really just like, really appreciate the way you see the world. Well, thank you. I mean, I, I, I try, you know, like, because I've, I've sat there with holding my phone in my hand so angry that I'm shaking, you know, like, I've, I've had. I've had. I've had. I've, I've, I've, I've, had that and it's you know it's it's not healthy you know I still I still find myself doing that sometimes

like I'll see something that's that's annoying or frustrating or I think is unfair and my reaction will be like I should yell at this guy in this comments but like I'm trying not to do that as much just just because I

think if I keep getting mad about every person who has has spoken ill of trans people that I'm just always going to be mad. So. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoity.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoity.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.

It's a production of IHeart Radio and unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline.

And we're going straight to the source. the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and

wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman, documentary. it all embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed Human.