There Are No Girls on the Internet - BONUS: Esports is for Everyone

Episode Date: November 12, 2020

Who doesn't love video games? We all play them, yet women and communities of color can be shut out of the business end of this increasingly lucrative industry. Dr. BerNadette Lawson-Williams developed the first esports management program at a Historical Black College to make sure gaming and esports are for everybody.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises. of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was finally. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven,

Marc keep coming to, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are no girls on the internet will be back soon with a new season. But until then, and in honor of homecoming, enjoy this special mini-celebration of women using technology to make change on the campuses of historically black colleges and universities. We'll be back for our regular season soon. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. E-sports, competitive video games like Super Smash Brothers and League of Legends are big business. In 2019, the e-sports

industry made over a billion dollars, and in 2020, it's projected to reach over 600 million people. Now it's easy to think of your stereotypical gamer dude dominating the esports industry, but esports actually has a diverse and mainstream audience. And they're not just for hardcore gamers either. In the run-up to the recent election, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ilhan Omar played the game Among Us on Twitch as a way to connect with voters and drive turnout. And although e-sports attracts a diverse audience, women and people of color are consistently underrepresented in this increasingly lucrative field. Dr. Bernadette Lawson-Williams, spearheaded the very first academic program dedicated to e-sports management at a historically black college to change that.

I am a full professor of sport management at Johnson C. Smith University, as well as the advisor of our e-sports and gaming trisecta, the first at an HBCU. And our trifecta consists of our e-sports and gaming management minor program, our e-sports club, our game development club. in our e-sports lab, and we're the first HEPU to boast in e-sports in gaming track practice. So that's always very exciting to be a part of that kind of legacy. So for folks who don't know, what exactly is e-sports? Esports is actually electronic sports. So the E is for electronic.

And so when we think of electronic sports, oftentimes we really don't equate e-sports with our traditional sports, such as basketball, tennis, golf, because you think that it's just video gaming. But when we look at the definition of sport, a sport actually entails some element of physicality, some element of competition, and some element of codified rules. And by that very definition, esports are just as much sports as traditional sports and non-traditional sports. And so I always like to provide the history and insight and definition just

make sure that our listeners are educated in that way. Do you spend time playing video games? Well, if you're anything like Dr. Lawson-Williams, that pastime could actually be leading you to a career in gaming. She got her start just from being someone who loved playing video games with her brothers. And as a black mom, she's changing the face of what we think of when we think of a gamer. Okay, so how did you find yourself doing this work? You know, I can imagine that people must tell you that you don't look like the typical person

advocating for gaming and e-sports. How did you get involved in this? Well, actually, funny enough, I haven't had anyone say that just yet. If they're saying it, then I don't know, which is a good thing. But I was actually a gamer, believe it or not. Back in the 80s and 90s, I was a gamer girl. I was Ms. Pac-Man, Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Asteroid.

I used to go to the arcade with my brother, and that was our sibling bonding activity. playing video games. I picked it back up when my generation Z twin sons, who are 11 years old now, began to gain at about six years old. And so when I got them their first Xbox and literally set it up and saw the expression on their faces when they came out of their room into the living room,

only to see Xbox on the TV screen, I was sold. I just fell in love with the fact that they were so excited and passionate about games. And so from there, you know, progressively year after year, I begin to get a little bit more connected to the research of e-sports and gaming. And when I started to think about the connectivity between e-sports and sport management, then it really turned into an opportunity to educate and to provide opportunities for our students at Johnson C. Smith University. And of course, for HBCU, JCSU is the first HBCU within e-sports and JCS. gaming trifectives now has served as a pioneer for so many other HBCUs to get into this space. And so we're so excited about that opportunity just to be a part of this legacy that you now see being much more prevalent at our HBCUs.

So you mentioned that a big part of the program is managing live e-sports event. Have you ever been, Danny? I have. It's funny enough, the first sports tournament that I went to was here in Charlotte, North Carolina. Oh, my goodness. the synergy in that room, you had individuals, my sons are 11, so individuals all the way from 10, 11, all the way up to their middle 30s. And they're gaming.

My sons literally, it was the first time that they actually play a game called Smash Brothers and feel familiar with Mario, the character Mario, and Nintendo. And so they actually ended up playing in Egypt, I believe he must have been about 24, 25 years old. And it was amazing because they are so versatile. And I'm talking about my twins, so versatile in their gaming abilities that they were able to get into the game for the first time, pick up and really move and really manipulate and so quickly.

And so they learned the game on the spot to the point where one of the gentlemen's observing. Of course, I wasn't familiar with the game. I was learning it as I was watching and observing, but he actually whispered to me, his son is pretty good. If this is important, I'm going to watch. And so I'm talking, wow, I have gamers on my head. So I have to take this a lot more seriously

because, you know, a lot of times as parents, for us, you know, many of us feel that gain it as a waste of time where my mindset has truly been transformed. I am sold on the business side of these sports. Dr. Lawson Williams was motivated by making sure that everyone had access to the kinds of business opportunities that e-sports presents. The university partnered with Riot Games,

the creative company behind the wildly popular game, League of Legends, and its associated esports tournaments. Now, video game consoles like Xboxes and PlayStation can be pretty pricey, which is one reason the field isn't more diverse. But thanks to this partnership, Johnson C. Smith University is leveling the playing field. Consoles may run between $300 and $500.

Well, PCs, actual computers that are specifically for gaming can run anywhere from $1,000 up to $2,500. And so it was really a tremendous opportunity for us to secure that funding because now we actually had gaming PCs for our students so that when they return back to campus in the spring, they'll actually be ready to go. And everyone will be on an even playing field as opposed to one person playing in the PC, another person playing. playing from their smartphone and another person playing from an Xbox.

And so that's what's exciting. But the program at Johnson C. Smith University is specifically geared at getting minorities involved, as well as females involved. So we actually have a campaign going on now, really pushing to get more females in the space, particularly female students at JPSU. How do we make sure that more women and folks of color aren't just playing games, but they're making money from gaming and e-sports? Well, unsurprisingly, one answer is just supporting one another and lifting as we climb.

Dr. Lawson-William says that mentorship is that one way that underrepresented people can break into the esports and gaming industry. So what's your advice to a woman or a person of color who might be interested in pursuing esports as an academic study or a field or even as a gamer themselves? What's your advice to them? Connect to the right organization. And so the beauty of e-sports is it's not confined. you know, there is no organization that really confines or restricts your ability to participate in as many leagues as you would like to. And so, you know, whoever that individual is, if you can reach out to someone who's in gaming, if you're on, for instance, a networking social media, LinkedIn has been the best place that I've seen in terms of individuals linking up.

And I would have to say the majority of people are excited about other gamers getting into the space. And so for them, that means a lot. Any of them will follow up with you and provide you with guidance from there. So the mentee mentor relationship is imperative in this industry for sure. More after this quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman,

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriters, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's that worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard,

you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard herds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard. But they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle aged, one erection.

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and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness,

professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout, Kate Martin, and rising hockey star label. Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me

to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Let's get right back to it. What do you think that Little Bernadette, who was this little gamer girl, would think to see you now? You know, now that you're Dr. Lawson Williams, you know, spearheading the very first historic HBCU e-sports program. What do you think your young self would think about that?

So my younger self would just be tickled pink and would actually say, I knew you were going somewhere. The moment I decided in the eighth grade to begin capitalizing the end in my name because I was being creative, I knew that things were going to happen. So God just wheeled it in. It just shows that, you know, those kinds of opportunities that were exposed to were younger, you know, many times they remain dormant for decades, but, you know, something, you know, causes them. There's a catalyst somewhere that causes those, you know, passions to

actually rehash or rehash. You know, a lot of colleges are offering esports scholarships. And so just as we would want that, again, athlete in baseball or football to be committed, to get out there in practice, to work on your skills, I'm always reminding my kids, And they're always reminding, mom, I'm working on my technique. You know, so it's really cool having them, I call them my e-sports consultant because a lot of times wanting to clarify information. I'm like, now this particular game is published by who? Oh, no, it's an indie publisher. Okay, okay.

It's not published by bright games or epic, but it's published by, you know, someone who's just an individual. As I remind them, there's so many innumerable opportunities. career opportunities in the e-sports and gaming industry. They can go into software development, game development, you know, the business side of it. They can be scoutcasters. I mean, innumerable opportunities. Eastport is so STEM-based. And that's what we really have to remember.

It's not just about playing a video game. It's about really getting into, you know, the nature of what a video game entails, what an e-sport actually entails. And so I remind my students that every day, you guys actually have an advantage in the industry because you're already gamers. Right now, we're the only HBCU undergraduate level that has an e-sports and gaming management program. And so I can't say that enough because it's so exciting and we want everyone to understand the real phenomena in that statement. It's not an uncommon story for underrepresented people to be a big chunk of an audience of an industry,

but not have proportionate influence when it comes to control over that very same. same industry. Eastports and gaming is the same way. Women in communities of color are the ones consuming and playing the games, yet we aren't the ones making money from video games and esports. Dr. Lawson-Williams wants to change this. We know that 83% of African-American teams play some type of video games. But sadly, the other statistic on the other side is that less than 3% of African-Americans

are actually employed in the Eastport and gaming. industry. And so that's the sad aspect of it. But what we're excited about, we turn that around, but still relying under the cloud is we're going to change that statistic. We're going to take that 83% of African Americans playing video games and increase that 2% and meets it halfway. And we're working on that. And I feel we're going to make that happen very soon. It's already happening. How does it feel to know you made history? It's not about me. I said it to my kids all time. Never be in a place where you think what's happening to you is about you. It's bigger than that. It's about more people having an opportunity. So I'm really, at this point, just a vessel.

I'm just a vessel. I'm just the opportunity, the line for my students to get to where they need to be. So what's your all-time favorite game? Like, what's the game that started all of this for you? Well, I have to go back to Ms. Pac-Man. I'm already trying to figure out a way to, to, to, to, to, to, to get access to that game in my house again so that I can demonstrate to my son that this is real. Mommy didn't just make up that she was the Ms. Pacman champion of her neighborhood. She really was. And I think they want to see that as well. Yeah, I had to tell you something that was really funny to happen.

One of my sons really loved TikTok. I mean, he got up to the point with one of his TikTok videos he made. He had 100,000 likes. He was just so excited about that. One of the videos that he and I made together, it was a video of him gaming. And I walked in the room. It was a little later than he was supposed to be up.

And, you know, he was just caught red head. And so the last segment of the video showed me actually gaming. And it was so funny, the comments that were posted. Kids were like, oh, my gosh, you have the best mom in the world. Your mom is an OG. She's gaming. And I just thought more parents need to spend time gaming with their kids. If this is the kind of response I'm getting to a TikTok video,

more parents need to take time to sit out and learn these schools. Now, obviously, the controllers now are vastly different from the single-hand joystick that we had back in the 80s. So a lot has to be learned. I love it. Gamer Girl and cool mom. You know, I have to tell you, my late grandfather went to Johnson C. Smith University. And before he passed, going to homecoming every year was a very big part of my family.

And he would be so proud to see what you're doing at the university now. That's phenomenal. He would be so proud to know that you even sought me out to interview me, Dr. President's a phenomenal story with you about our Johnson C. Smith University. It's funny because Jackson C. Smith University is really like my second alma mater. I actually graduated from South Carolina State University. Bulldogs and house. But, you know, I've been at JCSU now, believe it or not, for 17 years, 17 years strong, and I love it. Every single day, I feel like I've had an immense impact on the students in our campus community.

And so I love that opportunity. It's all about impact and what we can do to help our future generations. We hope you enjoyed this special celebration of women making change at HBCUs. We'll be back with There Are More. There are No Girls on the Internet soon. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi. You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com.

There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tarry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your performance. Podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward.

At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I Heart Women's Sports. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano.

It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was partying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis' keep coming to him.

He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Wilfredel from PodMeets World. And now the Pod Meets Twirled podcast.

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