There Are No Girls on the Internet - Candace Owens sued by French President; Mehdi Hasan and Jubilee’s fascist “debate;” Trump’s grifty war on “Woke AI” – News Roundup (w/ Dope Labs’ Dr. Titi Shodiya)

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

Bridget runs through this week's tech news you might have missed with the brilliant Dr. Titi Shodiya, co-host of the excellent podcast Dope Labs. LISTEN TO DOPE LABS! https://www.dopelabspodcast.com/ FOLLOW DR. TITI SHODIYA: https://www.instagram.com/dr_tsho/ Debate-style video roils internet after participant openly identifies as fascist: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/jubilee-debate-video-fascist-participant-roils-internet-rcna220303 Emmanuel Macron, Brigitte Macron sue right-wing podcaster Candace Owens over false claims first lady was born a man: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/french-president-emmanuel-macron-brigitte-macron-sue-candace-owens-claims-first-lady-born-man/ Trump’s order to block ‘woke’ AI in government encourages tech giants to censor their chatbots: https://apnews.com/article/trump-woke-ai-executive-order-bias-f8bc08745c1bf178f8973ac704299bf4 ICYMI TANGOTI ep: She Called a Black Child a Slur — Then Raised $700K. Kiandria Demone Is Saying ‘Not Today’: https://podcasts.apple.com/sn/podcast/she-called-a-black-child-a-slur-then-raised/id1520715907?i=1000708401994 If you’re listening on Spotify, you can leave a comment there or email us at [e-mail]! Follow Bridget and TANGOTI on social media! Many vids each week. instagram.com/bridgetmarieindc/ tiktok.com/@bridgetmarieindc youtube.com/@ThereAreNoGirlsOnTheInternetSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are no girls on the internet. a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Welcome to another episode of There Are No Girls on the Internet. This is another rendition of our weekly news roundup where we summarize all the stories on the Internet that you might have missed so you don't have to. And I cannot tell you how much of a fan I am

of the person that we're great, whose presence we are graced with as this week's co-host. Dr. T. T.T. Shodia, scientist, engineer, and co-host of the fantastic Doak Labs podcast. Welcome to the show. Bridget, I have dreamed about this moment. I am so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

I mean, I'm such a big fan of what you're doing with Doep Labs. For folks who don't listen to the podcast, you should be listening, but give us a summary of what are you all doing at Doep Labs? So at Doep Labs, I co-hosted with one of my best friends. Her name is Dekea Watley. She also has a PhD. Her is in genetics

and genomics. Mine is in mechanical engineering and material science. And we show how science intersects with pop culture. So it's a really fun show that is rooted in our friendship because we've known each other since grad school. We bonded in the struggle. And we just take things that folks are talking about in their group chats, things that are tumbling down your timeline and show that there's a little bit of science behind it all. I still remember the very first episode. It might have been the episode that the first episode I heard. It might have been the first one you did about cuffing season. Oh, yeah. I absolutely love that episode. And that was such a great

introduction for us to the world because it, I feel like it just encapsulated everything that we're about, you know, the science, the clownery, and, you know, talking to strangers and hearing all these really funny, amazing stories and talking about, you know, the ecology behind all of it. It's, it was really fun. Science clowning and talking to strangers is like the hat trick of things that I enjoy. Yes. And I'm one of, I mean, I'm excited that you're here for a million reasons, But one of the reasons is that you all just did a, your most recent episode was all about how folks should be thinking about AI in their own lives. What was, can give us a little bit, a little taste of that conversation? Yeah, I think the reason why we wanted to talk about AI, this was kind of like our second episode that we talked about AI.

We talked about the impacts and the cost of AI. And then this most recent one, we kind of talked about how we can engage in AI in ways that make sense that fit into our lives and we don't have to feel. you know, bad about it. Because AI is coming, whether we like it or not. And, you know, there are some things that are really, really bad about AI. I mean, there's things that are really, really bad about a lot of technology, but we just want people to arm themselves with knowledge so that as we move forward, because this is going to move forward with or without us, that we can, you know, step into our work spaces. We can step into the rest of the world and know, one, what is out there, make a, and make an intelligent decision about whether or not we want to engage for whatever reason,

whether it's, oh, I'm not going to upload photos of me and my kids and my family into an AI large language model. Or, okay, this is how I'm going to engage with it. I'm only going to use this for work. I'm going to make sure that I toggle these certain things off so that you can use it in ways that you feel comfortable with and you don't feel like your privacy is being violated. And so much of what we do on this show is just sort of, I guess I'll, for lack of a better phrase, arm people with the truth. armed people with the fats. And so I talk to people who are really skittish about using AI in any

capacity. And, you know, I think like for folks who are like, I would never use AI, I would never use TashDBT, I totally get it. But I want people to be able to make informed decisions and have a sense of it. So not, so don't have a sense that is rooted in AI hype of like, it can do all of these things that it absolutely cannot do. Or it's a good use cases are great when they're not actually good use cases. Right. Similarly, don't fall into this trap of like, you need to be afraid of it. You can't use it. Right.

I mean, because the way that I always talk about AI is AI is a new technology. If you think back in the history of this world, every time a new technology came into the forefront, there was always this stage where people were terrified. When you think about mathematicians, when the abacus was invented, there was this whole big thing where it was like, you are not truly intelligent if you have to use an advocate. Fast forward, when the calculator first came out, everyone was saying you should not be using a calculator. No one's going to know how to use their brains anymore. Then you have, you know, the advanced calculators, TI-89s.

We have computers and everything like that. Then the internet comes and everybody's like, wow, no, this is not something we should be working with. And now the internet is ubiquitous. It's everywhere at our fingertips. And then we had Google. And when Google first started, everyone was very, very confused. and saying it's just like this cycle with technology where it's like something comes out. There's an innovation.

There are people who are like, don't use it. You should be scared. And then everybody realizes, oh, it's not that bad. We can live with this. And it actually is making our lives better. So it's just important to understand how these things work, understand how you can interact with them or not interact with them if you don't want to. I know some people who haven't used a TIA-9 calculator and that is totally fine.

That doesn't make them less smart or more smart or whatever. It's just if you don't need it, don't use it. So I want to talk about the executive orders that Trump administration put out about AI because I'm sure you have thoughts. I have thoughts. But before we jump into that, I just wanted to really quickly talk about this thing

that I saw floating all over the internet. And that is this Jubilee Media. I guess they're calling it a debate, but I'm not even comfortable really using that word. Right. This journalist Medi Hassan, who is like a progressive journalist who I really like respect. Do you know his work?

Yes, I do. Really respect him, loved all of everything that he's put out until. Same. So this clip of him debating 20 far-right conservatives went viral on Jubilee Media. For folks who don't know Jubilee Media, they started their founder. I looked into them. Their founders said that they started because they were so set up with how partisan politics have gotten. And they wanted to create what he called the Disney Channel for Empathy. That was a long time ago because they were. Basically what they're more known for now is platforming extremists. So, you know, the far right conservatives, quote-unquote, that they had on the show that

were debating Medi Hassan, they say things like, oh, I don't mind being called a Nazi and, yes, I am a fascist and things like that. And it's really clever how this platform has been able to really normalize and launder these very extreme positions. Like, aligning yourself, like explicitly aligning yourself with Nazis is extreme, to say the least. Honestly. But then they phrase it. as, oh, these are conservatives.

I mean, I am not a conservative. I would not say that it's fair to say, like, oh, somebody who aligns themselves with Nazis, that's merely a conservative perspective. Right. No, no. The viral moment that I want to talk about was this guy named Connor. You're a little bit more than a far right Republican. Hey, what can I say?

I think you say, I'm a fascist. Yeah, I am. So basically, Connor, and like, of course his name is Connor, proudly proclaims, yeah, that's right, I'm a fascist. So this interview goes viral and Connor, he goes on the crowdfunding platform, Gives and Go and says, I lost my job. I'm trying to crowdfund $20,000. We actually talked about Gives and Go on our first episode of the season,

that it's kind of become the platform for people who have done something bad in public and then want a big payday from it. Our earlier episode was about this woman who called a black child a slur on a playground, and raised almost a million dollars on gives and go afterward. If you missed that episode, we'll put it in the show notes. But that woman kind of became a right-wing celebrity. And I think Connor from Jubilee is also on his way there too. He already raised quite a bit more than the $15,000 he was initially asking for.

And so, you know, there's a lot to be said about Jubilee media and like what they're doing. But I mean, I just, I wanted to talk about them briefly because I don't think this is going to be the last we see of Connor, right? Like, no, it's definitely not going to be the last we see of him because you know how they say a watch pot never boils. It's like a watched fascist never shuts the fuck up. You know what I mean? And that's the reason why I have a t-shirt, please.

Like, they will not shut up. And I'm just like, that's why I refuse to click on certain things. If I see the clip, I scroll past it. I don't want to contribute to any of those metrics because I feel like it's mostly, you know, people who are not conservative that are running up the numbers because we're so outraged. And so they're using outrage as currency. And I'm just like, no, I don't want to contribute to this guy's notoriety. I don't want to contribute to, you know, it being pushed more and more onto people's feet.

Like, we have to stop giving them a microphone. I'm so sick of it. Who else did that? What was his name? Otto, Acho, or whatever. who had that show where he was talking to racist. I was like, this is the dumbest idea ever. Why not use that microphone to talk to somebody

who actually has brains in their head and is willing to have smart conversations, not these really old, outdated conversations? If we stop giving these folks microphones and turning up the volume just so that we can get clicks, they will eventually shut up. And they won't be able to give all of these other people out in the world who are looking for, you know,

verbiage to use in their little racist conversations, they won't have anything to say. They'll have nothing to have in their mouths to then regurgitate onto the rest of us. Exactly. And my thing about people like Connor is that if it wasn't for Jubilee Media giving him a platform, he'd probably just be like typing his opinions on our Reddit thread. Honestly. He would not be our problem. And giving him a microphone, giving him a platform, giving him a way to make a little bit of coin for himself for these abhorrent views, I think really is the problem. And you, You put it so well. I do think,

we're not in 2016 anymore, right? There was a time where people wanted to talk about, like, oh, defeat the alt-right in the marketplace of ideas. Just debate them, debate them. No. In 2016, this style of debate content is a scam. It's not informing anybody. Yes.

And I guess ultimately, I strongly feel like there is no debating people. Like, how do you debate somebody who, with their full chest, says, yes, I am a fascist. When you don't have a shared reality, there is no way to have a debate. And I think that we should stop acting like this is anything other than a spectacle and right-wing starmaker machine. You can't call a debate because you're not talking to somebody reasonable. You know, you have to have reason. You have to have something.

You have to have intelligent thought in order to have a debate with someone. You can't just say, I'm a fastest and cross your arms and say, yeah, that's what it is. that's what it is. That's not someone that you can debate. That is just a, that is, it's like talking to a brick wall, honestly. Like that's not, they don't have any, because they will, what they will try and do is make you become the intellectual. And they, they will, you will have to intellectualize their fascism. There is no intellectual roots to racism and fascism. There's nothing intellectual about it. But this whole conversation that, that folks are having around all of this, because we keep giving these people microphones, is intellectualizing something that is at its core, not intellectual.

Exactly. And the way that you put that makes it so clear that, like, if you say, like, when Black Lives Matter, in the height of the Black Lives Matter movement, there was a lot of that debate-style content. And it's like, how do I debate somebody who doesn't feel that I deserve right? How do I debate somebody that doesn't think I'm human? Like, what, like, what can I say that would be like, oh, you got me? We're not having the, we're not speaking the same language at us. certain point. Right. And there's no conversation to be had, period. Exactly. And I mean, I definitely have

gotten offers from, not from a Jubilee, but from similar platforms that are like, oh, come on. And then you can be a sort of like progressive voice or the feminist voice. And I just don't think in 2025 any serious person ought to be participating in this. Like I already, it doesn't matter. I could go on those platforms and make the most well-formed argument. But I still know, regardless, it's going to be, you know, conservative Republican, takes down feminists, like, because that's really what they're after, right?

They're not after any kind of, like, actual moment of clarity or empathy or understanding each other. It's just a ridge debate with a foregone conclusion. Right. And even if you go in there and you cut them up to shred, they're going to clip it up so that it looks like you got tongue tied,

like you were stumped and, no, you're not going to let me fall victim to the editing. This is not loving hip hop, okay? This is not Love Island. You're not going to have me looking like a fool just because you wanted to clip me up and now I'm looking crazy. Uh-uh. Yes.

Exactly. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you

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you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard. They're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open.

Since you guys are middle aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygel and Friends On the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me! I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

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So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast. and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we're dedicating a series to understanding the mind when it struggles. I'm joined by doctors, researchers, and those with lived experience. We'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel about anxiety. I started living in my car, and then my car got stolen.

I was shoplifting. I was having panic attacks. I was agoraphobic. And making it through hardship. To be present is a learned skill, and it's hard to be present. We'll talk with John Nelson about clinical depression and the brain implant that saved his life. What I learned is that procedure made me happy because I'm disease-free.

And we'll talk with leading experts like Judd Brewer about anxiety and John Hirschfield about obsessive-compulsive disorder and the science of how the brain can change. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course and what we can. can do about it. Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. At our back. Okay, Chi-T, we have to talk about somebody who I am a little bit, I have a weird obsession with. Maybe obsession's the wrong word. Okay. That is Candice Owens. I have people who listen to the show, I have described her as my shadow self because I feel that she's almost like a fun house mirror version of myself. I know that sounds wild, but we did an episode about her rise that I see so much of myself in her early days. We were both, you know, people who like to talk about politics

on the early days of the internet. She back in the day, when we were both doing this at the same time, she was actually a progressive voice and she had a very specific switch where she kind of went into some of her more like noxious extremist views. So she also is somebody who I think is prone to hyperfixation, which I also am. Although her hyperfixations are very different than mine. Hers are things like Blake Lively is lying about everything or Harvey Weinstein is actually a victim,

the victim of Me Too. And one of her most recent hyperfixations has been the First Lady of France, Bridget McCrone, the wife of the French President Emmanuel Macron. Owens spent months, months

building out this increasingly elaborate, completely unfounded conspiracy that the first lady of France is trans. She doesn't, before you ask, she has no proof of this. This is just something she's like, it's like, she initially started calling it a gut feeling

and it's so fucked up because initially she was like clear, like, she basically has never had any proof and she's gone from being like this is a gut feeling I have to I have the proof of this, I have the receipt. And so I have quietly been wondering

where this all ends for her for a while. And we may have her answer because this week, the French president and his wife filed the defamation lawsuit in the U.S. against Owens centered on her claim that the First Lady is trans. So they filed this complaint in the Delaware Superior Court saying that Owens has waged a lie-filled campaign of global humiliation to promote her podcast

and expand her frenzied fan base. As somebody who keeps tabs on what she's up to, I wholeheartedly agree with how they're characterizing this because I've honestly seen, I don't call it misreporting, but I've seen it reported like as if Candace Owens just said this at a party or something that she just casually said this once or twice. And that's actually not what's going on. In reality, she has made multiple podcasts and videos claiming to have found smoking guns

and claiming to have all this evidence. Like she's got like a stringboard and she's connecting the dots on this claim that she's made like very concrete claims. And she's gotten millions of viewers, which translates to cash to her for this lies. So it's not like she's just like saying this and they're coming after her for saying this like casually once or twice. As I feel like some of the reporting suggests, she has really monetized this unfounded lie and built it into a whole conspiracy theory with her millions of viewers. Yeah, I mean, that's the bread and butter for folks like Candace Owens because what, what, their base, it fails to grasp onto is fact.

And so then they have to think very, very like dark meta. Yeah. You know what I mean? Where it's like, no, no, no. Y'all are so blinded by fact that you're missing all of this mystery and nothing over here. And it's like, that's how she makes her money. She just makes something up and then runs with it. And it's like, oh, but look at this.

Oh, why did she cross her legs like? this instead of like, it's ridiculous. It's honestly ridiculous. And anytime somebody is doing something like this, I'm always just like, this is Olympic level like jumping. Like you're going from one thing, you're doing an absolute triple jump, you gold medalist in this in this jump that you're doing, trying to get to whatever conclusion. And the other part of it that I'm, which is my issue with everyone that has issue with

transgender folks, why do we care? Right. I'm just like, and if she is, like, why do you care who doing the bending? Right. Who cares? I'm not worried about what Macron is doing with his partner, his wife. I don't care what they do in their bedroom. I care about his policy.

How is that going to affect his people, the folks in the United States, the world. I don't, I don't even know what his wife looks like. Like the fact that she's putting so much energy into this, I'm like, Candace, girlfriend. Now, imagine if you put this same level of intensity into anything else, you would be able to do anything. You could take over this world. But you choose to hyper focus on these really ridiculous things. I'm like, use your powers for good, not evil, and don't get yourself in prison or sue to the point where you can't even afford a microphone. because you want to do this.

It's crazy. You put it so perfectly, the way that she has picked apart every little iteration of their appearance, their marriage, their friends, their family, their personal history, the way that Brigitte's hair will fall. Oh, my gosh.

That's a tell, tell. So I'm like, she's dead. And then sometimes it'll be like the absence of evidence is what the evidence is. It's like, well, if she wasn't, if she wasn't actually true, friends, don't you think, like, it's, oh my gosh. It's like, it is such a rabbit hole. And keep in mind that Brigitte and Emmanuel Macron, they've been in a romantic relationship since, for a very long time.

Like, their relationship is its own weird thing. Like, they met when Brigitte was a teacher at his school when he was 15 and she was in her 30s. They met in drama club at a school that, like, he was a student and and she was a teacher. And so like, now that's the seat. I know. I mean, like, that's not, exactly. So, like, there actually is. You focus on the wrong thing.

A thousand percent. There actually is stuff where it's like, well, who to talk about how weird their marriage is? That's right there. Like, that's like legitimately. That's what we should be talking about. Like, girl, you focus on the wrong thing. Like, talk about the real stuff. I did not know that.

No. Side eye and the whole thing. If you wanted to make podcast episodes about them, there's a lot to say that is like fertile ground for discussion and so you don't actually need to make up these completely unfounded claims. Yeah. So Owens responded to the lawsuit. She says, this lawsuit is littered with factual inaccuracies and part of an obvious and desperate public relation strategy to smear my character. And my question is this, why would the president of France want to smear this random American podcaster? Other than the fact that she keeps telling these outlandish lies about her,

like, like, why, like, why? He's busy doing. doing French president stuff. You think they think they didn't even want to like target you like a random right wing podcaster? Absolutely not. Right. It's it's really ridiculous. And I also saw that she said something like, oh, you're just suing me so you can have it on a record that you sued me, but I'll see you in court. Girl. This ain't what you want. No. This ain't what you want. This is not going to be it. Because the court is not going to say, oh, you have to prove that you are biologically female. They're not going to do that. They're going to say, they're going to say, they're going to say. They're going to. They're going to say, that you have no reason to believe that. It is baseless and so you're in trouble. And sister, those dollars ain't set up the right way. Especially now that you haven't always been aligning yourself with everything that Trump's doing. So I feel like you've lost a little bit of your base. They're not going to save you, sister.

They're not going to save you in this instance. You're just going to be broke, okay? Yeah, this is a mistake. And it is something that we've talked about this, the show, but I think it's something that we've seen more and more of where someone, often like an extremist, will go on a smear campaign and the only recourse is suing them for defamation. And we've seen it work. So I, honestly, it's the business model now. Yeah, it is. It kind of is. And like, I, I mean, it sounds like from reading the lawsuit that they're like, we gave her ample opportunity

to just stop this. Like, we would, like, we wouldn't. And so I do think, like, they would not have pursued this if they did not feel like they had to. And I think the fact that she has shown no signs of planning on reversing course on this and just shutting up and saving herself the trouble makes me think that they're that that's true. They had to do this. Listen, if I had that level of intensity about anything, I just want to bottle what she has and use it in the right way. Your wacier energy girl. My God. I was going to say get you somebody who is so fixed on, stated on you like that, but you don't want that type of fixation.

That's too much. Stalking. Talk to death. Okay, so should we talk about Trump's woke AI executive orders? I mean, it will be wild to do a podcast episode and not. So let's just get into it. So

Trump signed three AI focused executive orders on Wednesday aimed at keeping woke AI models. That's his word. out of Washington and hopefully this idea of turning America into an AI export powerhouse. So there are three executive orders of this. I will quickly summarize two of them. And I want to focus on one of them kind of exclusively.

But I'll give you the sense of what's going on with everything. So perfect. One is called promoting the export of the American AI technology staff, which aims to support the export of American developed AI systems. Its main mechanism seems to be financing support for, American AI companies to facilitate them and licensing them to allied nations. It honestly is pretty light on specifics, which like surprise, surprise. An EO is like right light on specifics out of this administration, who could have thought. But the stated goal anyway is to establish the U.S.

as like the leader, the global leader in AI. Right. I will say like to me, it really does seem like it's a good opportunity for American tax dollars to subsidize big tech companies even further, particularly those companies that the Trump administration favors. Like, I'm no expert in this, but reading what they put out of it's a go, this just seems like a big gift to Trump tech cronies. So that's something to know. The next EO is called accelerating federal permitting of data center infrastructure, which exclusively focuses on building new large data center projects, those requiring at least

100 megawatts of power. So I am not a scientist or an engineer. So you can let me know if I have this right. I did a little bit of research, and it does seem like 100 megawatts is what you might think of as like at the larger end of what is normal for a data center. Is that too many sense of that? I think so, yeah. Okay. And this executive order calls on agencies to remove environmental regulatory hurdles so that the negative impacts of the environment or water resources are not a barrier to what everybody wants, which is the construction of new large data centers.

Which, okay, I mean, there are literally people who do not have water in their households because of data centers. There are communities like the neighborhood in Tennessee where Elon Musk built a massive data center who no longer have clean air. This executive order basically is like, fuck them. They'll be fine. We need this technology. Yeah. And it's a, in my opinion, it's a ruse because it's like it's not really about the technology. It's about the people who are going to be making money from building these status centers.

expanding their empires. It's really not about, and that's what I also want people to understand about like AI and these technologies that are coming down the pike. It's like the reason why the government is so hyper-focused on it, anytime the government is doing all of this or you have a president that is like just so laser-focused on something, you have to start really thinking, where is the money going? That should always be the first question, because if you're, you're thinking about the greater good of America and how do we make ourselves more technologically advanced and all these things like that, you would invest in education first and foremost. You would make sure that people that everybody in the, like everybody that is coming up in the U.S. education system

understands how to code, that they understand like how a semiconductor chip works, that they know how these models work. We're not doing that. We're not investing in education. They're like, build the things. And that's because when you build the things and you start to make product, you can sell it all over the world. That means people are making money. And so I'm just like, all of these executive orders, all of these, it's just a formal way of lining their own pockets. Because Trump, he's thinking after this presidency is over, I need to make sure that I'm setting things up so I make the most amount of money possible and make my rich friends happy so that just in case I need them, you know, they can, you know, slip me a little little something, something.

And so that's always what I think about. I'm like, it doesn't make sense for you to say, we want to be leaders in technology, but not investing in education. Who going to do it? Who's going to do it? Who's going to advance us if we are not making sure that college is affordable, that that K through 12 schools, that they have the resources that they need, that teachers are being paid in a, that a teacher's being paid the amount of a living wage that they can, go to these schools and be able to arm these children with knowledge, training teachers, like making sure that defunding academic institutions like Harvard and all these things like that, it doesn't, those two things don't go together. You can't say we need to be the leaders in this

technology, but then also Department of Education, you're going to the dumps. And I think we're doing exactly the opposite of what we should be doing. It's like we've, it's like this administration has clocked that an educated, critical, upwardly mobile citizenry is not going to be conducive to the way that they're trying to do business. I think all of the way that they're moving tells me that that's what they've deduced. Yes, absolutely. That's exactly it. I feel like you hit the nail right on the head.

More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Bodenker to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group? The worst?

Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open.

Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartadvertising.com. That's iHeartadvertising.com.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast's point game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without. Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis

is our offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get to fly. He running up the court,

licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, I said, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast, and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we're dedicating a series to understanding the mind when it struggles. I'm joined by doctors, researchers, and those with lived experience. We'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel about anxiety. I started living in my car, and then my car got stolen. I was shoplifting. I was having panic attacks. I was agoraphobic. And making it through hardship. To be present is a learned skill.

and it's hard to be present. We'll talk with John Nelson about clinical depression and the brain implant that saved his life. What I learned is that procedure made me happy because I'm disease-free. And we'll talk with leading experts like Judd Brewer about anxiety and John Hirschfield about obsessive-compulsive disorder

and the science of how the brain can change. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course and what we can do about it. Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's get right back into it. So let's talk about the woke AI bit of this. I mean, I don't understand what that is. Same. And so here's the thing. When I was seeing woke AI everywhere and all the headlines, I was like, well, certainly this is like,

they're extrapolating or they're using that as a stand-in. No, that's. is actually the name of the executive order. The executive order is called the preventing woke AI in the federal government. When I tell you that I would pay good money to have Trump like sit down and explain to me like,

what do you, when you say woke AI, what do you mean? Give me some specifics. And he probably couldn't. No. You probably couldn't because I think it's just like anything, any AI that, would say anything negative about him and his administration, basically.

That's basically it. Yeah. And so now we're talking about another hit to freedom of speech and things like that. And when people are thinking about AI, they're like, oh, well, AI is not a human. It's not. AI is not built from nothing. It, the way that AI works is that it takes, it crawls the entire internet and grabs everything that's out there.

every single corner, every single piece of the internet, that is what it's working from. So if he's saying, I don't want AI to use, to have anything in it that says these specific things, that's basically putting a blackout on parts of the internet when it comes to AI. AI, people think of AI as like this robot that's just super fast at learning. And I'm like, to learn something, things have to explain. exist. And so, like, yes, there are issues with, you know, creativity and using people's image and likeness. Yes, I get all of that. But when we're talking about censoring AI, he's censoring us. He's censoring the people. And that's what people need to understand. It's like, oh, yeah, sure,

woke AI, no woke AI. That is words, that is images that is, are, that they're, that the AI is learning from that will not be used. So it's the same thing as burning down a library or a whole section of a library. It's the same thing as taking away access to certain parts of the internet, like they do in China. You know, they don't allow them to have things like TikTok and the way that their internet works is not the way our internet works. And that's essentially what he's trying to do. And we have to really keep our eyes open because you can come up. with a lot of, like, fancy White House legal ways, legal, quote, unquote, to censor whole populations of people.

I mean, I had never even thought about it that way, but that is something, that's a drum that we beat a lot on the show that AI is people, right? It's self by people, trained by people. It's not, you know, it's not a computer brain or something. Right. And so what you're saying is that this sort of preventing woke AI executive order that's like, no, AI must not have anything that, must not have any kind of ideological agenda. That's just another way of censoring the internet and ultimately censoring us, human,

people expression. Exactly. Because if I'm using the internet and I'm creating blog posts that I'm talking about my experience as a black woman in STEM, my experience as a black woman in America, and I'm saying I feel like this certain legislation is not right, or that I feel like I'm being disenfranchised and all these things like that, the AI models will not be able to pull from my blog in order to answer someone's question

that might be like, in 2025, what was it like to live in America for a black woman? I'm silenced. It's quiet. Everybody on mute. And that's dangerous because you essentially can rewrite history. Imagine if we could go into every single library, take books and just rip out whole sections and say,

nope, that didn't happen. That is what is happening. That's what the technology is. The internet is something that is boundless, but there is absolutely the ability to censor. And we have to really be careful because these are the stories. These are the stories that tell what history was. Our experiences, people might, you know,

poo, poo doing a blog or, you know, vlogging your life. these are archives that people 100 years from now will watch. Like when we see videos from those old black and white videos that they restore and we're like, wow, look at those people walking around. Oh, my goodness. That's so cool. Are you trying to tell me that we will, that our whole experience as black women won't be there?

We won't, like, your podcast won't be, my podcast won't be there. Like images of us at marches, images of our family, like having, like having community won't be there because they might say, oh, that that's woke. Black family reunions is too woke for the internet. We really have to be careful. We really have to like sit up and take notice of these of ways that we're also being censored and that they're trying to rewrite history and silence us. Because if they silence us in this technology, we're in a really dangerous spot for the history being told. And as we know, history always repeats itself. And especially if that that, that narrative is not there. I mean, look at how long we went, I feel like how long America went

with Native Americans and understanding the history and the plight of Native Americans, like the indigenous people of America. It's, they should want it back in blood, honestly. It's really sick that we have, you know, sports teams that are like the chiefs, the, the Indians, like, they should want it back in blood. And that's what happens. That's what will happen to whole populations. And some people who are a part of Trump's base might be like, oh, well, I don't care because that isn't me. It's going to be you too. You think you live in Appalachia and you think that they want to hear about your struggles? No, they don't want to hear about your struggles either. They don't want to hear that you can't afford to pay to get groceries

for your family this week. You want food stamps? They don't want to hear that either. That's woke. we're all in danger. We are in danger and we really need to take notice. I mean, I completely agree. You put that so well. And I do think when you look at the words and this executive order under the, with the lens that you just laid out, it's clear that's exactly what they're doing.

Right. They're right. They're carving out any part of the experience of being a human that they don't align with and don't like. And what I find so... fucked up is that it relies on this idea that there is sort of one objective truth. And who gets to decide that? The Trump administration. So exactly. The truth of like, even if you're a white person in Appalachia who can't afford groceries, the truth that the Trump administration wants to give is

that groceries have never been cheaper and everybody is prosperous. So that's a, get that right out of there. And yeah, I mean, the way that they, in this executive order, they basically spell out that we get to decide what is and is not objective, what is it is not truth, what is it is not, they've come up with this term that they've basically disinvented that of whole cloth, unbiased AI principles. And essentially that means that they are only supporting AI models that meet this term of unbiased that they have just decided themselves. Yeah. When you talk about anything that is manmade and saying that it is unbiased,

it's just not possible. There was a study done a while ago. I don't remember what year it was, but they had an AI model crawl the entire internet and basically create a personality based on what they found on the internet. And that model was racist, it was sexist,

and it was xenophobic. And like, that's just based off of what's on the internet. And so it started out with nothing and then they said build from here. Just crawl the internet. read as much as you can. And it crawled the entire internet. That's what the result was.

Everything that is man-made is biased. Everything. Like, the term bias, I think people always think of it in one direction. If I were to make something, it's going to be biased. You know, if I make something for, if I make a product that I use for my hair, well, my hair is very specific type, okay? I have Afro hair that I love. and that product is going to work in my hair.

Now you go next door to them white folks, they might not enjoy that product because I made it and it was biased. Absolutely. And so this whole idea of something being unbiased, it is just, again, a ruse. Like, it's just not possible. Anything made by man is biased.

You know, you can go to great lengths to make sure that lots of biases are, represented in the making of a product. So again, if I'm using that same example, let's say I want to make a hair product, I can say, okay, I'm going to go talk to one of my best friends from the Dominican Republic. I'm going to talk to another one of my best friends who's black, but has a really loose curl pattern. I'm going to talk to one of my friends who is white. I'm going to talk to one of my friends who has alopecia and figure out like, what are you looking for in product? That is a way to take a lot of biases into account when you're creating something.

But to say something has no bias, it almost does not make sense to me at all. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriters, reader Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

There's that worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, uh, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group, the yard birds, right? That's the name.

The Harvard yard, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle aged. Uh, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again.

More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started.

That's 844-8-4-I-Hart. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us

on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Iza,

you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast, and for Mental Health Awareness Month,

we're dedicating a series to understanding the mind when it struggles. I'm joined by doctors, researchers, and those with lived experience. We'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel about anxiety. I started living in my car, and then my car got stolen. I was shoplifting. I was having panic attacks. I was agoraphobic. And making it through hardship.

To be present is a learned skill, and it's hard to be present. We'll talk with John Nelson about clinical depression and the brain implant that saved his life. What I learned is that procedure made me happy because I'm disease-free. And we'll talk with leading experts like Judd Brewer about anxiety and John Hirschfield about obsessive-compulsive disorder and the science of how the brain can change. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course and what we can. can do about it. Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. And I think one of the most frustrating things about this EO is that it specifically names that it does not want any kind of, quote, DEI in the, in AI, which already

it's like, I mean, I hate when Trump kind of makes me think through the logic of the things they put out. I'm like, what do they mean by that? Exactly. But in the real real. world having more voices at the table, having a diversity of folks educated on AI, working in AI, building models, training models, all of that. That can only help us. Like, that is, that is, like, one of the ways, one of the tools in our tool bots to combat bias in AI, AI that is harmful, AI that doesn't recognize us for the, like, multifaceted people that we are, is having a plurality of people and perspectives at the table. And this executive order, it says, they say, D.E.I and AI can lead to discriminatory outcomes, distort and manipulate AI model outputs in regard to race

and sex, incorporate concepts like critical race theory, transgenderism, unconscious bias, intersectionality and systemic racism. DEI displaces the commitment to truth in favor of preferred outcomes and, as recent history illustrates, poses an existential threat to reliable AI. And that's what I think kills me, is that we know AI can be biosephemy. can be sexist, can be racist, all of this stuff. Like, we know that because it's trained on us and like humans, those are all pitfalls that humans unfortunately struggle with.

And so this idea that, oh, the way that we make AI good is making sure that there's no even whiff of inclusion around AI. I mean, it's, I shouldn't even try to find any kind of logic in the things that they put out. But it doesn't, it just, it just doesn't make any sense. And I think when we're talking about something, as critical as AI, that we're all having this big conversation about how AI is going to change all of our lives. Right.

You know, the fact that we're not having, like, these are not serious people. We're not, there's a, there are serious conversations because of having, but like, in lieu of that, we're putting out nonsense that doesn't even make any fucking sense. Exactly. And that, I mean, that just goes back to what I was saying earlier, where it's just like, they will try and make you intellectualize things that are at their core. not intellectual at all. It's just racist.

Like, when you think of the history of racism, there's this really brilliant researcher. Her name is Angela Saney, who does a lot of research on race and the history of racism. And I learned so much from her books. But racism is not, like, racism made up thing. We all know that.

And racism was a science at one point. like the research that went into trying to prove that there was a more superior race. But then all of that research was racist and biased and not true, not rooted in anything that was true. And so I just feel like the more we don't call this what it is when we see it, it makes it an intellectual conversation and it's truly not. And so then when people like you and I start to try and talk about it, it makes it really difficult because, and that's why it's hard to have conversations with people like that,

because you just, you don't even know what to say. Because it's just like, if someone says, I believe in unicorns, and you're like, have you ever seen one? No, but they're real. It's like, okay, but you've seen horses, right? Yes, but unicorns are the best. Do you, where are they? Does it matter?

You tell me where they are. What? These types of conversations, just, they are fruitless. And so it's always just so frustrating. There's a quote from Maya Angelou that Zakiya says all the time when it comes to like talking to racist. And she says, somebody says you have no language. And so you spend 20 years proving that you do.

Somebody says your head isn't shaped properly. So you have scientists working on the fact that it is. Someone says you have no art. So you dredge that up. Somebody says you have no kingdoms, and so you dredge that up. None of that is necessary. There will always be one more thing. We, I, that's a quote that I find a lot of wisdom in and I return to.

And I guess that's my main point is the distraction of it all. And that's the thing is like, from listening to your episode on AI, like, AI is, but there are lots of reasons to be critical of AI and skeptical of AI. Talk about the ways that it's flawed and biased. I am right there. But when we are, when the dominant conversation that the president puts out

is something that is such a distraction. It's such a like culture war, like just stoking the flames of division when along the lines of something that is so important. I just really, I mean, there's not, I mean, I should be used to it from this administration by now, but I just think what a myth. And it takes,

makes me back to, we did an episode with Dr. Joy Bullamweeney, who was one of the people who worked on the Biden administration's executive order on AI, right? That EO, it wasn't perfect, but it definitely was like, let's put a few garbils on this. Let's get a sense of, like, how this should be developed. Let's make sure that the voices who are talking about this and thinking about this are a little more diverse. The fact that we went from that, like, certainly not perfect, but like someone who has some goddamn sense. was talking fucking scent on the issue to this. In just a few months, it really makes my head spin. Honestly, and I think that that's part of the tactic is to make us so tired

that we will just basically lie down and just be like, enough. Like, just let whatever happen happen. And so I think, like, we recently interviewed Chelsea Clinton on the show, and that was one of, like, her parting messages that she left with us. And it was that we should not stop because that's like they're trying to disorient us. They're trying to fatigue us. They're trying to make us be quiet. And we should keep calling things out.

We should keep researching and asking questions and asking hard questions and pushing our local lawmakers and our state lawmakers and the president and his cabinet and making sure that we don't let these like diversion tactics and these tactics that they're using to make. us be quiet work because the first 30 days of this administration was just everything was just coming so fast and curious and I was just like oh my gosh like I was having to like in the morning I would wake up and be like maybe I should just not look at my phone for like an hour have a cup of coffee like pretend like all is right in the world but now I'm like no I need like I might give myself a little bit of time but I'm getting right back into it. it because being on shows like this, talking about these things and putting more out there is so, so important. And that's why I absolutely love the work that you do, Bridget, because you shine a

light in so many, on show, so many areas that I feel like people, they might not have the words, but they come to you to find the words and you help them think through some of a lot of these things, that they might be like too tired to do the research on their own or like, feel like they aren't, whatever, smart enough to be able to get to the facts on their own. You create these safe spaces for people to find facts and to, you know, laugh a little bit, but also be like, okay, now I know what I got to do. Because you come to every single episode with this certain energy that makes me be like, turn on my microphone.

I'm ready to go. You're so inspirational to so many other podcasters out there. I know that's not what we're talking about right now, but I just want to say, because it came to my mind, how important you are to this space. You are not nobody. You are somebody to a lot of people. You are somebody to me. And like you, I hope you never, ever, ever stop.

Like, I've been following you for so long. And it's what you do is amazing. I can only aspire. Gigi, I'm going to cry. No. You're so important. You're so, so important to the culture. I feel the same way.

about what you do at dope labs. And I just, I think it's so important. I mean, how many people that listen to dope labs tell you like, oh, it's so nice to have a show about science that makes me feel like included and seen and welcomed into the conversation. Right. That like what you do, like you do that so well. That's like what I want to do here on the podcast.

That's absolutely what you're doing. You've no idea. I mean, I'm going to cry. I don't even know what. No, you're, you are perfect, like, honestly. Oh my gosh. And it's, I mean, I think we, I think it just goes to show that we, for so long, I feel like when it comes to STEM, whether you're doing a show about science or tech, like, it's just very easy for people to feel unseen and left out. And then when you feel unseen and left out, you're checked out. And so when the president goes on TV and is talking about something AI related, there is nobody who is who can hear the sound of my voice right now. There's nobody who was listening to this podcast who, is, who is is not smarter than Trump about it, about full stop, end of sentence,

but also specifically when it comes to tech and AI. If you listen to this podcast, you know more than him. End of sentence, full stop, I guarantee you. Absolutely. It's just this very,

I just hate this culture that can be so alienating and can prompt people to do exactly what you just talked about. Like, just check out. It's be like, okay, well, they're going to do what they're going to do. I don't need to, I'm not going to try to, I'm not going to try to like arm myself, with information. I'm not going to, I'm not going to, what difference does it make?

Right. You're going to pass executive orders. They're going to sneak. Yeah. Huckery into the privacy policy. I'm going to use it anyway. Like, right. And I really want folks to feel a culture shift around that. It's like, no, you can arm yourself with information. You don't have to be afraid. You don't have to be, you know, you don't have to be trepidious about being part of the conversation because this, the science and technology, it really does impact all of our lives. And it's, it's so true. And it, like, that's one of the things that Zakiya and I always try and do with the show is just trying to create a space where people don't feel like we're preaching to them.

We are always learning with the people who are listening to our show. And it's so important for folks to know, like, the scientific process, and we go through the scientific process in every single episode. You do it here on your podcast as well, the amount of research that goes into it. That is the scientific method. And you get to a conclusion, and that is not you just pull it. anything, you know, out of your head. You do a lot of research that gets to the conclusions that you do. That is scientific.

You are a scientist. You are a cultural scientist. And people need to start feeling empowered to be, to do that, to take the extra step to do the research, ask an additional question, like really, not just read the headline, but read the full article, see what the sources are, see what that study was. Oh, they only talk to 10 people. That night might not be enough to say, oh, 90% of it. of people do this or do that.

You probably need a larger sample size. Those are the things that you should be doing, and that's what we're trying to teach people. We don't want anybody to feel like, oh, I'm not smart enough, or I can't do this or that. We want to empower folks to ask those questions and know that there is no such thing as a silly question. And, you know, in some instances,

like when we were talking about the vaccine back in 2020, like we really sounded the alarm on why people are vaccine hesitant. Why people of color are vaccine hesitant? And it's not because they're stupid. It's because it's rooted in real history, like medical history, where black folks were experimented on and sterilized and all these things like that. So the distrust of the medical community is not baseless. So there's a certain level of care you need to come, you need to come into those conversations with because like people of color are not just, are not stupid. They're operating within the framework of our history in this country.

And so when we talk about the vaccine, we say, listen, I get it. But these are the things that we know about vaccines. We break the vaccine down. We talk about the different elements of it and why they should feel like they can trust it. You know, the creator of one of the vaccines is a black woman. And we talk to her. And so these are the things that we just try and arm people with.

It's like the tools necessary in order to get to what the facts are. And then you can decide what you want to do. What you do with the facts, that's up to you. But I just want you to know what the facts are, you know, because what I always say is truth is subjective. Like your truth, my truth, that person's truth. It's all your perspective. But fact, it's the same no matter who's looking at it.

Do you feel that in 2025, I don't know, I feel that we've gotten to a place where we are so quick to just read the headline or go it into Google and then read the AI summary. I mean, what, you know, like, it's so true. It's so, like, and I, I just worry that the art of, fundamentally, the reason why I do what I do is because, like, at my core, I am a nosy bitch and I want to find out what I want to find out. So when someone is a scientist, not a nosy date. Listen, I think, I think it's one and the same. I think there's more, you know, like, it's like, it's about wanting to know.

Yeah. It's about when you read something and you're like, huh, that's interesting. Let me read more. Oh, let me click into that way. Oh, let me read the study. Oh, the PI on the study? Let me Google them. What are you?

Like, you, I could, I'm just a nosy bit. Yeah. I just want to know. And I wonder, like, are we losing the art of just wanting to know? Are we losing the art of like, I worry that in 2025, it's so trendy to be like media literacy is dead. But I do think you can, you truly can go on the internet and say anything and people will not check. People will not check. You could say anything and people will not check.

You can say anything. Listen. I'm not going to throw nobody under the bus, but let me tell you, there's a lot of things happening on what that. Yes. With some of these older people that are parent age. I'm just like, hey, where did you find this information? Like, did you try and do some research about it? Like, they're telling you never drink ice water?

Why? I don't think that that's how they're like, oh, it'll freeze your gut? I don't think that that's how ice water works. truly. It's just, it's crazy. But I mean, yes, I do agree with you. I think that, I think that with the way the internet is now, because like we're carrying it around with us constantly,

it's always right there. People are, like, losing their ability to wonder. Like, if I say, how tall do you think, how tall do you think LeBron James is? Somebody's just going to go, Siri, how tall is LeBron? like nobody's going to say hmm well he was standing next to did you hear that six feet nine inches

Siri please I'm recording an episode with the Bridget Todd thank you oh my god I didn't even mean to be talking her I didn't even press the button I guess she heard her name but like you won't say oh I saw him standing next to this thing and that's probably about this height nobody wonders anymore and I think that that is part of the problem part of the problem and we just go straight to our phones and then because we're not wondering, we're not doing any like, we're not creating these pathways in our brain that are reinforced. So LeBron James is 6'9. This just told me,

I didn't do any work to get there. So that piece of information, I'm going to forget it. Now, if I did a lot of research and took time and tried to figure out how tall a C exactly and did measurements, I won't forget because that's just how our brains are set up. You know, there are some people who are very, very intelligent, that they only have to see things one time or hear things one time and they'll remember forever. But the way that the average brain works is that it needs reinforcement. And in order to, like, information needs reinforcement in order for it to stick. And part of that is the wondering and thinking about something for a long time. And that's what helps us to remember and to recall.

So without the ability to wonder and like have curiosity and trying to get to the. the facts without just doing a Google or talking to Siri. Yeah, it affects your attention span. It affects your ability to remember things. It affects your ability to be able to connect dots in other aspects of your life. And, you know, everything becomes very, very difficult. Like, I mean, yeah, I'm guilty of that myself. Like, I'll be like, okay, I'm going to go to the grocery store.

It's like that Sesame Street thing. A stick of butter. Milk, some bread. And then I get there. I'm not like that little black girl. I'm like, I think it's a little flash on top of her head that's like the butter, the milk, the bread.

No, I'm like, did I need, I think I need a chicken nugget. That's what I came out here for. And then I get back home and I'm like, I did need butter and I did not get it. Like I'm guilty of it too because I use my phone as a crutch for a lot of things. But exercising your brain and exercising those muscles is so important to like being able to understand what we're looking at

and not just reading the headlines because when you exercise those muscles, the headline will never be enough. It won't be enough. And when I, I mean, when I hear about young people in college who are really using chat GPT to get them through college,

on the one hand, I get it because it's like, you have a million classes, you have a lot of course work, da-da-da-da. But I think back to when I was in college a million years ago, and it's like I definitely had nights where if Chad GPT existed,

I would have totally used Tashy BT to TET that helped me get through coursework. However, I also had nights of discovery where I learned something that turned something on in my brain or ignited a curiosity in me that I still have today years later. And, you know, I don't think that we should be thinking about all of this as just tasks to be offloaded

or automated because that's, I mean, I can't, I mean, I cannot even express to you how many times I would encounter something and it unlocked a lifelong passion or interest or curiosity. And we do, in our hyper-connected world where it's so easy to offload things to technology, we do have to make room for like our brain getting the tingleys because we read something cool

and we want to learn more about it. Like that stuff happens by happenstance. And if you are not giving yourself experience, it's almost like I worry that people are robbing themselves of the experience of that. that happenstance encountering something that like turn something on for you or unlock something for you. Yeah, I mean, and I totally agree. And I think that folks can do that in a chat GPT or Claude or whatever, or Gemini or co-pilot, whatever your AI model that you want to use is. Because those, the output is only as good as the input. If you're curious and you and you can ask the right questions and follow up questions and like you're,

you're learning as the AI agent or whoever is giving you this information, you can still discover. Like, chat GPT has deep research. And sometimes I'll put in there, it'll spit out like a 20 page thing. Now, this is not something I'm copy pasting. That is something that I use to research. Like, I'm reading it and I'm like, oh, my gosh. And I'm highlighting things. I'm like, oh, what's this source?

I'll click on it. It'll take me to whatever that source is. I'll read that. And I'll say, huh. Well, based on that, do you think that? and what about if you were to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, you can still get there with AI. It's like AI is, it's like going to the library,

but instead of having to get the little, do they still do that with the little cards and everything? I hope, I doubt it. Oh, man. Well, it's like going to the library, and instead of having to check out 50 books, AI can tell you what the books are. It can help you get,

to the exact paragraph that you would need that information from. And then from there, you can build from there. Like, sometimes people are like, oh, well, I put in chat GBT. Tell me, I'm going to be on a show with Bridget Todd. And what questions do you think she's going to ask me? And it gave me all the wrong answers. And I'm like, well, you could have also said Bridget Todd is a cultural scientist, a k.k.

A nosy bitch. who loves some drama, love some D, and just wants to know. And, you know, she is talking about current events. She is very funny. I would also like to be funny on this show.

Can you, like, get me up to speed with what's going on in current events that she might be talking about? And it will give you all of these different responses and help you understand things more deeply. Like, honestly, just like I was saying with the calculus, A calculator is only as good as you are. Like somebody can give you the most advanced calculator,

the most advanced software. They can give you the most advanced coding software. If you don't know how to use it, it's useless. Like you can put stuff in there. You'd be like, one plus one is two. Duh, I already knew that. Okay. Well, do you know how to do the area under curve?

Do you know how to do, can you do differential equations? Like, you have to know how to use these things in order to maximize your potential when you're using it. And so that's what I always say to people. I'm like, if you're interested in using AI to like advance your life, really sit down and spend time like going back and forth with it and like try not to be too much of a cynic and see how it can help you. Because a lot of jobs now.

So Morgan Devon, who's the owner of Blavity, she had made a post where she said that she was looking for looking to resumes for folks to hire. And she was like, it's a shame because a lot of these folks are not saying that they are proficient in like chat CBT and using AI. And that is mandatory to work in my company. And that's the path we're on now. And so for folks to be like, I will never like know where we're headed before you say I will never because you really don't want to be left behind when it comes to knowing how to use this technology.

Like, if you work in corporate America, we all know like an old person who is still struggling with emails and turning their camera on when they're on Zoom. And you're just like, if you don't just learn this stuff, don't be that person when you still have the ability to learn how to use these things at your job. And it's interesting that you say this because one of the things I was looking at to prepare for this conversation was this study in Harvard Business Review about how women are a bit slower to adopt AI in their work than men. And they actually gave a lot of interesting explanations for why that might be, women caring more than men about some of the ethical considerations of AI. Well, that makes sense. But also, one of the things they pointed out

was women being, feeling like they're under more scrutiny for using AI and feel like they might face more judgment than men if they do use. AI in their work. And I really felt like that was so interesting because it is like on the one hand, I totally agree. But in 2025, if you want to make yourself seem like a competitive candidate, you like, you should be able to speak articulately about AI. Absolutely. Also, I wonder like, are women who are self-reporting like, well, I don't want to use it too much because I don't want looking at me crazy. Right. What do you say to somebody who feels that way? I would say, don't box yourself out in that way because the men are using it and they're using it proudly, honestly.

And if you are in an industry where you feel like it will help you be more efficient, you should use it and you should use it proudly because even in job interviews, they'll give you a scenario. And if you don't say, I would use AI for this part of it, they're like, too slow. You're going to be way too slow. like, oh, I would research to do-r-da-da-da. No, say, I would plug that into chat-GBT. Chat-GBT-B-T will tell me this. And then from there, I'll be able to pinpoint

the right people within the organization to blah, blah. Like, you don't want to box yourself out. Don't let these men. Don't let these men try. They are for sure putting, that they are prompt engineers on their resume because they know how to ask chat TVPt a question. I have seen it.

I can confirm it with my own eyes. And I remember, I can't remember what book I read it in, but it was like when a man applies for a job, if there are five qualifications and he only has one, he's, he's more likely to apply for it than a woman who has three or four of those qualifications. Like she will, she will deny herself if she has only four of the five qualifications, when a man will apply when he just has one. We need to move with the boldness of unqualified white men. Yes. And I've said this on the show before is that my first ever job in podcasting, it was back in like 2012, before cereal was a thing, before anybody knew what a podcast was. I applied. I was just somebody who listened to podcast and I applied to work on a podcast. And I put out my resume, or I think I said in the interview that I knew how to do Final Cut Pro. In reality, I had never, I did not know how to do Final Cut Pro. I did. This was just a fucking whole clock lie. And then I, I

got the job and then I learned on YouTube. So have confidence. I am an advocate for people lying themselves into the job, but they want to have. Why not? Why not? You know, like, you can learn it. And that's the thing is that in any job, you can learn, you can learn any of the stuff. If they, if you have enough of the qualifications and you're a fast learner and you feel like you can pick stuff up, just do what you got to do to get in there. You learn when you get there. Okay, T.T. I have one last question for you. Yeah. You know, in your, in your episode about AI, you really, I will put it in the show notes because people really should hear it. I am often asked, so I feel similarly to you that people should be testing out how AI might fit into their own lives and their own work.

People often say, what about the like environmental and ethical considerations, which are real? I was in a talk recently about the use of AI and podcasting and how it actually does show up in some podcast, even though people don't want to admit it. What do you say to that? When people are like, well, how do you square that with all of the ethical and environmental considerations. I always say that there are ethical and environmental considerations for all things. And if you want to hyper focus on AI, then sure. But I don't know if that's the hill you want to die on. Because if folks want to like if you can, so sometimes people talk about water to make a serving of rice. The amount of water that's consumed is 72 liters. One hamburger patty is 2,400 liters. And it's not just

to like cook it. It's like from the cow, the slaughter all the way into your happy meal. 2,400 liters of water. And one chat GPT query is 0.05 liters. Like there are a lot of things. People have talked about almonds and how much water it uses. Rice and how much water it uses. It's like I don't want to discourage people from like taking AI to task and saying, hey, we need to make sure that. as we're developing this technology that we are considering the environment. We all got to live here. And I don't want this earth to burn up. I want it to last for a long time.

I love you, Earth. But we also have to think about things holistically and the cost for a lot of other things as well. Like, we also need to, we haven't figured out the whole emissions thing. We haven't figured out the fossil fuels thing. But it's like people aren't talking about it. anymore. And I'm just like, everybody's hyper-focused on AI and which, you know, when you think about some of the awful things that have been done with some of these data centers and people, you know, losing the access to clean air and things like that, yes. But there are so many things where we're

just not there yet. And we've kind of lost the plot a little bit and we've lost focus. And I think that we have to just continue to beat the drum about doing things. in a sustainable way and doing things that don't harm our environment, but also advancing ourselves. Because AI might be able to get us to a place where we could find alternatives to fossil fuels. There are scientists that are actively working to make sure that AI is more sustainable. But I'll tell you this right now, the fossil fuel folks, I won't say no names, I won't be specific. They're not trying to do that. No.

They're not trying to do that. But I know that the folks that are researching and trying to get us to a better spot when it comes to AI and its environmental costs, they're absolutely taking it into consideration. And it's going to take some time and it's going to take some innovation. But, yeah, I think that folks really have to ask themselves other questions as well when they're thinking about the impacts. I'm like, it's not like, oh, everything is bad. So might as well just do it. It's like, yes, there are some bad aspects to AI that is bad for the environment. Let's tackle that.

And let's also not forget about fossil fuels. And let's also not forget about fast fashion. Like, let's also not forget about the landfill. Let's also not forget about the trash that's floating in the ocean. Let's also not forget about vaping. Hello? let's also not forget about like there's just I just want us to always like a lot of these things are you know taking our attention away I just want us to always like remember that there are so many

things that we have to tackle as a global community and we can't lose side of that. T.T. Beautiful closing words. Thank you so much for being here. You're such a breath of fresh air. Oh my goodness. I'm so happy to be here. Are you kidding? I mean, This is like a mutual podcast love affair. Honestly. I'm obsessed. Where can folks listen to the podcast? What do they know about the podcast?

Follow you. Give us all the deep. Yes. So you can listen to Doep Labs wherever you get your podcast. So you just look for a Doep Labs podcast. We have a really cool black and yellow logo. It's so good. You can find us on Instagram, mainly at Doe Labs podcast.

You can find me at DR underscore T-S-H-O. And if you want to follow my co-host, Zekia, you can find her at Z Said So. You can also go to doplab podcast.com where we put a whole bunch of stuff, fun stuff, and you can subscribe to our newsletter where we put a lot of little tidbits about ourselves and what we're up to and the things that we're into. We will hopefully be hearing Zekea on the pod very soon as well. Thank you so much for being here. I mean, it's been a pleasure.

And thank you for the work that you're doing. I have ever since I, the first time I heard about the concept for dope lab is I was like, this is it. We need this in the world. It's just, I'm so glad that you all made this beautiful podcast and that exists in the world. Thank you. Thank you so much for being a shining example for us to follow. I mean, it's hard out here in these podcast streets, but seeing you do this and do this so well for so long, it's always so encouraging.

And it's really an honor to be here. Like when the email came in, I was like, I, this clearly is a fishing. I was like, whatever link is in this. I know it's fishing because what is going on. I cannot believe this. Thank you so much. Come back anytime. We love having you.

Come back anytime. I hope to be back. Please have me back whenever. I'm ready. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoity.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.

It's a production of IHeart Radio. and unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.

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