There Are No Girls on the Internet - Danielle Moodie is Woke AF and creating a better media ecosystem through podcasting

Episode Date: June 21, 2022

We already know our media can be terrible, especially for people who are already marginalized.  Danielle Moodie is using technology to change that.   Listen to Woke AF: https://www.dcpofficial.com/woke-af Follow Danielle Moodie: https://twitter.com/DeeTwoCents Join our newsletter: Tangoti.com/newsletter Want to support the show? (thank you!) Subscribe, tell a friend, leave a review, or buy some merch at There Are No Girls on the Internet’s store: TANGOTI.COM/STORE Say hello at [e-mail] omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than adds supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

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Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.

Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is now fuck around and find out. Right? So it's like, you know, you can, like, that's what it is. Like it is, you know, and you can take that any which way you want. You can be like, you know, you're not going to disrupt my piece because you're going to fuck around and find out, right? There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

So we talk a lot about media on this podcast, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And it's really important to me because I think that everyone deserves access to thoughtful, accurate media that tells them the truth. And when people are not nourished by good stories, it creates a gap that grifters and bad actors are more than happy to fill with lies and junk. And this is especially bad for people that are already marginalized, like women and communities of color. It's a real problem, and it's something that Danielle Moody has spent her entire life trying to combat through creating digital content that meaningfully centers the kinds of people who are traditionally left out in ways that are thoughtful, nuanced, and most importantly, honest. I am Danielle Moody.

I am the host of Wokey F and co-host of Democracy-ish, both are political podcasts. One is daily and one is weekly that I do with a co-host. I'm also a columnist for Zora magazine, which is a property of medium, and a political commentator using the, I don't know, the internet to try and make some sense out of nonsense. I like how you put that. I mean, that's actually a great place to start. You know, I'm so familiar

with your work, just as a dynamic person who has interesting opinions, particularly about politics. And I guess I wonder, what has the intersection of technology and the internet and politics looked like for you? Like, I know that you're someone who both on your podcast and on social media really do a lot of the work of breaking down, making sense of the world and the people who are, you know, making decisions around it on the internet. What does that look like for you? You know, it's really interesting because I think that I have had a different vantage point into politics by virtue of my age and when I came into doing the work that I was doing. And, you know, it was before we used to just have, you know, three news sites, three news,

three news stations, right, that the world was paying attention to ABC, CBS, and NBC. And you had these reputable, or at the time we thought, neutral, reputable, you know, white men that were delivering the news to us. And, you know, the advent of the internet and creating an entire social universe, creating the, you know, the metaverse, allowed for us to take, you know, the power away from these institutions and actually create a more democratic understanding and makeup of who is reporting on politics and what kind of analysis that they're offering. Like, it democratized politics in a lot of ways that I think I have seen through, you know, my origination of my first

podcast, which was like in the early 2000s to now. It's incredible, the amount of people, the amount of diverse voices and the amount of eyewitness reporting that we that we use and we use firsthand accounts as opposed to just putting all of our, all of our belief system into these institutions that have kind of been the gatekeepers. The gates have been able to open up wider for people that look like me and look like us because of the internet. Yeah, that's something that I've really seen a lot of, And I think, you know, you and I are probably very much aligned on this. But when you see people, typically white men who are saying things like, oh, you know, these days you can't say anything, cancel culture, all of that nonsense.

I've always thought that what they're actually responding to is this new paradigm where actually marginalized people can have platforms that they build themselves. Actually, marginalized people can put their ideas and their opinions and their perspectives out into the world. And those perspectives will, you know, people will have to contend with those perspectives. I think that, you know, traditionally marginalized folks have always had, we've always had our perspectives, but because of the internet, those perspectives are, you're able to have a platform that you built yourself or, you know, or have the conditions where, like, folks have to take

what you're saying seriously or there has to be some repercussions for what you're saying, as opposed to just being ignored. And so I think that when people respond to, you know, oh, these days, you can't say anything without being canceled, what they're actually responding to is like, no, just more voices are part of the conversation and that's new. Yeah, I think that they're responding to, you know, something crazy called accountability, that they're actually going to be people that are going to push back against the things that you're saying, and that while we have become so accustomed and so ingrained with centering whiteness in the way that, we see the world, that when you have diverse voices that are here, we have a totally different

articulated narrative, right, than the one that has been forced fed to us. And I think that in this state where we are right now, you know, people, I've heard white men say like, oh, I'm just scared. And I'm like, you have no reason to be scared if you're not, if you're not a creep. You have no reason to be scared if you're not a racist, if you're not a misogynist, you know, like you should, you should not be worried. You should have wanted things like this. to exist and the fact that people are being held accountable for the things that come out of their mouths. It is not risk-free, right, to offer up your opinions. And I think that people need to be aware of that. And just because you are cis and white and straight does not mean that you are neutral.

And I think that we are finally at a place where we're moving away from that perceived norm. I'm like, oh, because I am a black lesbian, then that means that, like, I can't be neutral. And I'm like neutrality is false. No one is neutral, right? And so that's the thing that we need to understand from the jump. And then we can have real honest conversations about cancel culture and accountability. Oh, my God. This comes up on the show, time and time again, time again, this idea of the lie that we tell ourselves,

particularly in journalism, but I think across media, that, that anybody is neutral. And I think that neutrality is really just code for like a white male cis heterosexual perspective. And so anybody who falls outside of that. And I would also say like middle class, able-bodied, like that is considered to be quote, neutral. And anybody who happens to fall out of that perspective, the idea is that they can't

write about their own experiences or their own communities because they're going to be biased when in fact there is no such thing as neutrality. We have just coded, coded the idea along these incredibly racialized, gendered lines and had that dictate who gets to have a voice for a very long time in our media. Yeah. And I think that, you know, it's problematic because, again, what we are saying is that they're the default, right? That white, cis men are the default and everyone else falls outside of the quote unquote norm. And it's like, Like, why do we have this understanding of what is normal and what is not? Why is it that when you're seeing, you know, you're listening to broadcasters and you're watching

shows and they're talking about, oh, a man was shot today. But you know that by virtue of how they said that, that it was a white man, right? Because they don't say white, right? So, but if it was a black man or an Asian man or a Latino man, they would articulate that fact. And so we have to move. And we saw this. and I think saw it in a really disheartening way, but we saw out loud what black people have known for so long

and people of color have known. As the war in Ukraine broke, you had journalists on a multitude of stations and networks saying, oh my God, you know, we've never seen something like this in, you know, in Europe. This is so heartbreaking. It's not, I mean, they have Starbucks and Instagram. It's not like this is Syria or, or Afghanistan.

And you're just like, so your assumption is that the people in the countries that you just named do not or shouldn't have safety, right? That they, that they are, we should have expectations of violence in these areas. Yet Europe who was the perpetrator of violence around the globe, colonization and chattel slavery, which originated in these places and the 100-year war and all of these things like, somehow the fleeing of blonde hair and blue-eyed people should invoke more empathy than the fleeing of brown hair and brown-eyed people in various parts of the world. And it just, it was that moment where it's just like, you need to be really careful about the language that you use

and what you are saying, right? With saying what you said and with not, right? Like, we're used to and have been sensitized to violence in certain areas of the world because we sell it that way. right? And I think that that is incredibly problematic. And that's why I like, I'm so grateful to be a part of this kind of wave of, you know, podcasting and technology and how technology mixes with media to move outside of the quote unquote mainstream. Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought that up. And a lot of my work, both in the podcast and in my 9 to 5, focuses around things like media accountability and media trust. And I think you just really nailed it, right? I think that there are so, like it pains me when I see people who fall prey to things like conspiracy theories or disinformation or misinformation or misinformation online. But the reality is people have, particularly black and brown folks, have legitimate reasons to be very skeptical of some. some of our media, media that constantly otherizes us, media that constantly, you know, shows us every day that the Ukraine example that you just gave about the way that they were speaking about, you know, how folks in Ukraine have Starbucks and their quote, just like us and how that was different than, you know, sets up this dynamic where it's different than other

countries. It's like very clear to me what they're trying to say. I think that we have not fully contended with how deeply, how deeply, um, how deeply, um, how deeply, um, unserved so many traditionally marginalized communities are by institutions like traditional media, and that because that is true, because these institutions fail us every day, it sets folks up to be susceptible to disinformation, conspiracy theories, bad actors, people who are selling them, you know, nonsense, because it feels like that our only other option is also not serving us in a meaningful way, not centering us in a meaningful way. Let's take a quick break.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined.

So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart. get started. That's 844-844-Eyheart. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies

know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that Ness was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex?

Dating at 45. How can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy? That one's kind of hard, you know? Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, How hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public.

Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of My Cultura podcast network available on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never.

seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We already know that bad actors and provocateurs intentionally weaponize and spread lies online and in media. to stoke and inflamed tensions. But what's sometimes harder to see

are the ways that traditional media outlets, the kind of places that you would expect to be better, add fuel to the fire by spreading and normalizing, inaccurate, and inflammatory narratives as well. For instance, you probably might have heard that according to a judge, Tucker Carlson's show on Fox News doesn't actually have to include any actual, you know, news.

The judge's opinion said that the general tenor of the show should inform a viewer that Carlson is not, quote, stating actual facts about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in, quote, exaggeration and non-literal commentary. Danielle says that making our own media like she does can be a means of creating more authentic, not to mention truthful, information ecosystem. I would argue that, and I've said many times on my own show, that we have an FCC, right? We have an FCC that is supposed to regulate the airwaves and supposed to regulate television and radio. And yet you have outlets like Fox News who outwardly promote lies.

Right. And while we want to put up notations on Netflix and on Amazon and on Hulu that says nudity, violence, smoking, all of these things, you know, age 13 and up, We don't put the same notifiers on news outlets that are spreading dangerous lies that have cost people their lives. Right. And so it isn't just like looking at mainstream and saying, oh, my God, they're bad. But the people that are supposed to be in charge of regulating them have decided not to. And then they hide behind the Constitution and saying that, oh, it's freedom of speech. And it's just like, I'm not saying not to say what you're saying, but I'm saying that there should be a warning sign that comes with Tucker Carl. there should be a warning sign that comes with Laura Ingram.

There should be a moment before their shows go on and midway through and when they close out that says that it is dangerous, that says that this is for entertainment purposes only, that it is not to be perceived as education, right? And so by virtue of how we have allowed these entities to survive, it's the reason why podcasting in all of its form, talking about a range of themes has become so popular because you can't rely on mainstream media anymore to provide you with the information that you need. And we saw that readily apparent during the beginning of COVID, right? Like you have all of these outlets saying, chirping and

parroting what Donald Trump was saying that it was a host. Hundreds of thousands of lives were lost because of that lie. And not once, again, was there any laws? lawsuit against Fox News, OAM, any of these places to say that what they were saying was violent and costing people their lives and that they were a national threat. Nothing. So I, you know, I love the rise of kind of this, this form of media because it's necessary. And I think that you're going to see more and more of it as people just move away from television altogether, right? Because you're getting your information, you're streaming it in so many different ways. I know that you are a longtime podcaster, a long time person who's been using the internet

to build platforms that can really tell a different story. I feel the same way, you know, I've worked in podcasting in some capacity behind the mic, in front of the mic, since like 2009, right? And so I was doing it back in the day when we didn't know what the heck we were doing. like it was like the Wild Wild West, I was like learning everything that I was doing on my, like as I was doing it. And I think it's so interesting now to look around the space and just see a different, a different vibe, right? Like it's, I guess that's one of the reasons why I love podcasting and the internet as a place to build your own media platforms and tell a different kind of like media story because it does feel very inclusive. There are queer folks, black folks,

Brown folks, women, people with disabilities, you know, trans folks, thanks to the internet and technology, I believe we've been able to really build these platforms that center ourselves and just allow us to be seen in different lights. And that's so important because we deserve, you know, thoughtful depictions of ourselves in media. We deserve media that, that meaningfully centers and serves our communities. You know, I had a really interesting conversation over, you know, a couple of weeks ago with friends of mine because they were talking about how their jobs are using the metaverse, right? That they are having the, what are they, the Oculus, the, you know, the Oculus eyewear and that they are, their organizations and their companies have created

alternate universes within and camp and digital campuses to create community because they have gone virtual. That they were still roughly 25, percent of workers in the United States are still virtual and will remain that way because of COVID and how it is just transformed the way that we work. And I thought to myself, wow, that is really fascinating, also terrifying, right? Because you, I'm like, you know, the thing about, you know, television and the thing about, like, not being so, like being in social media, which you are addicted to your phone and you're swiping and the democratization of it all is that we actually don't, we actually carry the transphobia, the abelism, the racism into all of these spaces.

So while we have seen an expansion of representation in terms of who is holding the might, what we are seeing though as technology develops and we become more immersed with having our, you know, quote unquote in real life, but then having our avatar, having this other alternative metaverse that what we're realizing is how those issues are just being reimagined in different spaces. And so it's like, how do we have a conversation that is about the excitement around how inclusive technology can be? But if we are not mindful about how it is being used and who is using it, that all we're doing

is changing spaces, but not actually changing hearts and minds. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I completely agree. And I think, you know, it doesn't matter if you're talking about the podcast space, the metaverse web three. If you are not intentional and if you are not really mindful from the very beginning, it doesn't matter what revolutionary technology or revolutionary thing that you have that's going to democratize tech or democratized media, you will just be reinv- like, reinventing those same isms, racism, sexism, all of them in this new space, unless you are intentional from the very beginning. And that's, I think that it's, I will always be like a tech optimist. I will always be excited and hopeful about the, about the promises that new technology will bring. But I'm also a realist because I do know that we can, people can get so starry-eyed and

excited about new technology and they think, you know, oh, we won't need to have, Like, these considerations won't be a problem in this new realm, in the metaverse or in Web 3. But then I know that is not true because racism, like, that train is never late. It shows up forever. That train is never late. It's always on time. It's always on time. My God, it's never run off schedule.

But that, it's totally true. And I think, you know, I had watched the documentary coded bias, a, a, a, a, a, a while back and it blew my mind. I was just like, my God, not even can we think about relieving ourselves of racism? No, it's present in algorithms. I'm like, Jesus Christ, you know? So it's like if you're not tackling these issues, if you're not talking about them, if you're not trying to reach and break through the noise, which is what I try and do on a day-to-day basis with woke AF, it's like, if you're not trying to reach these people, we're just transferring, right? We're not changing. anything. And so, you know, we watched it with the whole debacle around Spotify and Joe Rogan. And the fact that, oh, okay, well, Spotify decides, okay, they get called out for supporting racism by virtue of supporting him. And then they say, oh, well, we're going to give 50 black people 100 million. Like, they're going to get to share the pot of $100 million that we're going to distribute that we have given one white cis man. And I said,

Who the hell was doing your PR and thought that that was going to be a good look? That basically you said that every podcaster of color, right, is worth one white man. Ugh. I hated that. That really, yeah. Yeah, it was just, it was just disgusting. But you, you know, you listen, you know, when we see TikTok and we see black. creators on TikTok, you know, pushing back and saying, okay, so now these white creators come in,

they bite our videos, they bite our work, they slap on their name to it, and then all of a sudden they got millions of followers and millions of dollars worth of endorsements, right? And so it's like, yes, we have all of these platforms that we can readily access, but it's like who's able to monetize, who's able to break through. They're still the gatekeepers that are largely white men, that I get to say yay and nay. That's such a good point. And I think it goes back to, I mean, something that's like a mentor once told me

is that you should always be really careful building your house on someone else's land. And I guess when I think about, you know, the platforms that I think of as platforms that I have, you know, built myself and in a lot of ways I have. But, you know, the powers that be at Apple could decide that I don't belong there

and kick me off tomorrow. You know, if you have lots and lots of Instagram followers or TikTok followers, it's like it can feel like something that you have ownership over, but while our tech platforms and internet platforms are all so, you know, in the hands of, you know, powerful tech leaders who all kind of happen to be white men, you really don't own as much as you think, I guess I would say. And so I've always tried to be very mindful of that, that like, as cool as it is to try to build your own platforms to tell your own stories,

yourself, it is a good reminder that while so much of the owning class is, you know, white, straight tech leaders and tech bros and all of that, you know, what can you, what can you really own? What can you really have that's yours? You know, and that's one of the reasons, you know, why I became independent, right? Like, for the longest time, I was doing the tap dance and the jig for networks for, you know, to see me, see me, see me and like show my work by virtue of how many hits on television that I could get, right? How many people were calling into my show when it was still on serious XM, right? And so one of the reasons why it was important as a black queer woman to go to a podcast company that is run by black people, right?

was because, one, I did not want to have my voice shrunken, right? I didn't want to have to shrink myself to fit into other people's ideas of me, but then realizing that even in being independent, I still need the apples and the Spotify's and, you know, the Stitchers and all of those places to put my independent work on, right? So it goes back to what your mentor said about building your house. other people's land because it's like, yes, I built this house, right? But I still have to put it someplace.

And I don't get like by, you know, unfortunately don't own the, the apples and the and the Spotify's and those places. So you're still going to be beholden to those people who get to determine your worth and your value. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite, unhumored me, Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More America. Listen to Podcasts, then ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.

Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at IHeartadvertising.com. That's IHeartadvertising.com. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast,

point game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the

lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius R. Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah. You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a paramedipausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that?

I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that Ness was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How hard can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy? That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try.

So let's get blunt with laughs, tears or tears of laughter, and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. I really identified with what you just said about going independent. And there was a time in my life where, this was several years ago, where I thought the path for me, the path to be where I wanted to be in my career and in my life was sort of, quote, being seen by a big, traditional media outlet. And I worked for a big news network whose name you definitely have heard of, but I'm not going to say here. And so much of that... You know that I remember you from there.

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. I mean, people know it. I'm not, it's a, it's a, I know where you were. It's no big secret. Like, people can, people, you know, and no shade to them. Like, like, I have no shade to them at all. But, like, I thought, I had really bought into this idea that the path forward was somebody at that network, like, liking me. me or seeing me. And so I was sort of always auditioning even for a job I already had. And when I look, when I look back at all of the work I had to do to sort of not just let go of that job and let go of that mindset, but do a lot of like internal work. I'm saying, you know, I know that I have value. I know that I have something to say. I know that I have a perspective. It doesn't matter how many

views, how many clicks my content or my piece makes for somebody else. My work. is not tied to that. And really, you know, you described it as like doing the dance. That was all I was doing in that part of my life. And it didn't get me anywhere. And I look back and I think all of these things that would have been, that would have been for me, like the height of success. I don't even need them anymore, let alone like want them. I don't even need them anymore. The height of success to me is having a platform to say what I want to say and feeling good about it and not having to have the pressure of like, oh, I hope they like it. I hope it goes viral. I hope this, I hope that. you know, how exhausting that was and how much of myself I spent on that, on that dance. I guess I really identify with what you just said. Bridget, I was like, you know, it, I felt like I was on a hamster wheel for like 10 years, right? Just, you know, my entree into media was around, uh, same-sex marriage was in, you know, the, you know, the 2010s, right? and, you know, doing everything for those outlets, just trying to get on television, chasing the producers,

chasing these things, making sure that, you know, my social media was, you know, just right because I didn't want to be too offensive and to this and to that and too much, right? And then finally, realizing that what the hell am I doing? I have contorted myself into a watered down version of myself so that I would make myself digestible to the white sea suite. And I just decided, I don't want this, right? What I want is to share my thoughts and my message unfiltered, right? And if you don't like that unfiltered this, if you need your politics with more sugar, then I am not the one, right? Because I'm going to give it to you straight. So it was, you know, the recognition for me. And again, this came really

through the pandemic of looking around and realizing that everything was shifting, everything that you thought was no longer, and saying that this was an opportunity for those of us in a privileged space, this was an opportunity to reinvent and to say, you know what, I'm dropping all of the precursors. I'm dropping all of the caveats. I'm actually just going to say what the fuck I want to say and how I want to say it. And if you want me on air, book me. If you don't, I ain't chasing you and I'm good, right? Because I'm going to say what I want to say, how I want to say it,

and miss me, you know, with everybody else's interpretation of how it should be. Oh, I'm so, I love how you put that. And I think I had the same thing. And for me, it went back to this idea of stopping this dance of trying to be everything for everybody and just realizing that, like,

what I have to say is not going to hit with everybody. And that's okay. And that actually is helpful because it allows me to spend time really leading into my people and like who I am for. And so rather than spending all that energy trying to be, you know, exactly the right curated version of myself, I'm just going to be who I actually am. And the people who are with that that will resonate with them and the people who are not with

that, who cares. Like I'm not for them. I'm not for everybody. I am who I'm for and that's who I should be concerned about. People who I'm not for, it's not really my business what they think about me. You know, one of the things that I still do a bit of, and this is only for organizations who align with my with my value set and my missions is that I do media trainings and executive coaching for underrepresented CEOs and executive directors and I remember that when I started

doing media trainings many years ago you know it was always about trying to present people's best version of themselves right but it was also about making them palpable watering them down What about thinking about what will margin middle America think, right? Like what will this person think? Now when I do media trainings, I say tell the truth. What is the truth that you want to be offering up to, you know, to the people? Do you understand your audience? Do you know where they are?

Right. And then we can craft whatever message that you want. But at the end of the day, this is about telling the truth. This is not about watering things down. We are past the watered down version of America. and what we need to be seeing and doing, people need to be activated. And I think that, you know, one of the purposes of mainstream media is pacification. Because if they actually wanted people to be, you know, riled up, to be knowledgeable,

then we wouldn't see the kind of news that we see, right? Like there, it wouldn't just be, you know, the three stories that all of the networks are going to cover for a week, and that's going to be it, right? There would be more substance that is there. And so, you know, we also have to recognize that we're not going to be able to get our education through the people who are trying to actually remain in power and continue to oppress people. What was it, Audrey Lorde that says the master's tools are not going to dismantle the master's house? Then that is like, to me, how I look at mainstream media versus, you know, podcasting and the new age of technology and media is that we are using different tools to still try and dismantle this house. but then recognizing that the house that we have built is still on somebody else's land.

And so what is the next step? What does the next iteration of that look like? Well, I guess I have to send that question back to you. I mean, for you, what does that look like? What does the next step look like in your mind? You know, I just, I realized for me, just recently, I went on TikTok, right? I saw that you just joined. I literally just joined TikTok like a month ago.

and I was totally against it because I'm like I ain't going on this children's site right like in my head that's what I was like I'm not going on this children's site and then I started to realize that you know it used to be that to be considered credible you needed to write right then people then we realize people don't actually like to read then it was oh well then go on television and then you realize like oh well people's attention attention span has actually shrug. Now, I need to figure out a way that I'm shrinking down my 40-minute show that I do daily into just one minute, just 60 seconds of content because that's how people are getting their information. So I couldn't just poo-poo like this medium that felt uncomfortable to me

because I wasn't the age target demographic for it, but then recognize that like we as content creators need to be adapting to where people are getting their content and how they're consuming that content. So for me, the next iteration is just meeting people where they are and making sure that I am as nimble as possible and that there is no no, right? Like, no, I don't want to do this. No, it doesn't feel right. If it doesn't feel right, great. But I don't want to close myself out of different ways to communicate with people because that is always going to evolve. And for a content creator and somebody that wants to wake people up, needing to evolve with where people are. That's such a smart way to think about it. That's why I started out as a podcaster because

it was like an emerging, this is, you know, back in the day, it was like an emerging new medium. And I was just like, I'm so excited to see what people do with this. And people were doing like weird, off the wall stuff with it. And so I think like being willing to be nimble and saying yes to new places, where it feels right for your voice to be, where it feels like there's a alignment, I think it's really, is really key. Yeah, because I'm not trying to fit where I don't, you know, I'm not trying to make. And I think that that to just going back really quickly to mainstream media, that was the thing is that I was trying to fit myself into a space that did not want me and actually was very clear about the fact that they did not want me, right? But I kept trying

to fit in, fit in. And I think that, you know, by virtue of just having been in this podcasting space, been in this new media space for, you know, a decade now, it is, it's really interesting to decide to follow your own beat, right? To create your own, like to figure out what works for you and then just keep pushing it out, right? And, you know, and people will bite. Like they do, you know, people, people will bite, but you have to be really steadfast in what it is that you're creating and delivering. And then, figure out where to put it. Yeah. And it's like, I've definitely gotten to a place, again, over years of internal work and sort of like figuring out my perspective, I don't want to be in any

rooms where it's clear that I am not welcomed. I don't want to be anywhere where my presence is not a gift, a value, you know. Come on. Yeah. Like, I just have no interest. I, maybe it comes with getting older, but yeah. But it's a truth. But it's just like, you know, and I think it's because the generations that came before us fought so hard to get into those rooms, right? They fought so hard to get a seat at the table. And I think that the generations that are coming now are just like, yeah, fuck that room. I don't need it. Like I'll create, literally, I will create my own space. Like, I'm good. You know, you continue to do you over there and I'm going to create something over here. And, you know, that is what gives me hope about, about new,

media about these, the ways in which we're all adapting to these different spaces is that it's an opportunity for us to show up as our most authentic selves, right? It's the opportunity to say like, no, I'm not going to do, you know, I remember when I locked my hair, right? This is, you know, 20 years ago, I locked my hair and people were just like, and you're going to work in politics, I don't think that that's a good idea, right? Because unless I was going to present some Eurocentric form version of myself, some perm, pressed form version of myself, then apparently what was going to come out in my mouth didn't matter, right? So I think that we are still in a place. I mean, we just passed the Crown Act. Like, we're still in a place where, like, we're still having to justify

how we look, how we sound. But I think that it's a better place to be in when we're the ones that are owning and creating the spaces and deciding where and when and how we want to be involved, right? And like how and where and when we want to show up. It's a different form of power. I love that. And think about this. Like, I never thought I'd see the day where we have Judge Jackson about to make history as first black woman on the Supreme Court with braids. I never thought I'd see the day. And here we are. And so I think it goes to show you that, you know, we've come to a different place where I think that we have, we're setting the standard for how we want to show up. And I think that standard is being dictated by us and not external forces.

And I love that for us. I hope that we all, I hope that this is like a new, a new normal where we just accept that we are going to show up as ourselves, our most authentic selves, and folks can accept that or not accept that. You know, one of the funniest things that came out of the funniest memes that I saw that came out of the Oscars, you know, debacle was, this is now fuck around and find out. right so like so it's like you know you can like that's what it is like it is you know and you can take that any which way you want you can be like you know you're not going to disrupt my piece because you're

going to fuck around and find out right like I'm going to continue telling the truth or you're going fuck around and find out like I think that whatever that means for you but it is it's saying like yeah I'm not trying to fit myself into your standards right I'm going to make my own And the more like that you try and place people into boxes, the more that you're going to see people want to burst out of them. And I think that if we can embrace, you know, this new season of life and expectations that we have for ourselves, right? And the brands that we are building and creating, then, you know, it will be a new, it will be a new dawn, right? And I think that every day is the beginning of a new dawn, every season offers us an opportunity to try to be better, do things that are bolder, right? And I think that that's what

podcasting allows us to really do is to be bold, to be big, and to exist outside of the box. I love that. Danielle, I have one last question for you, a little bit of a curveball question. So one of your podcast is called Woke AF. Yeah. What do you, and it's fantastic, people should definitely listen to it as well as democracy-ish. Yes. But what is it like, you know, this idea of being woke, you know, definitely started in black vernacular.

Like that was our term. And now I feel that it's almost become a dog whistle, right? Like, you know, speaking of Judge Jackson, I remember before, even before she was named as a Supreme Court nominee and Biden was just like, oh, I'm planning on picking a black woman. And one of the arguments I heard about this hypothetical black woman who wasn't even named yet was that she was going to be the woke choice for the Supreme Court. How did we get to this place where the term woke is now almost like a just like a coded dog whistle for black? And what do you make of that as someone who, you know, has a show that that is, you know, the word that you use to describe your own, you know, your own politics and ideology? I mean, for me, being woke is about being conscious and aware of the world around you, right?

Living a, like, what does it mean to live consciously, right? Not as ostriches that are burying our heads in the sand and waiting for the tide to turn, right? And I think that, you know, what the, what progressives and folks on the left have allowed, once again, is for the right to co-opt the language and turn it into, turn something that is very positive, which is about, you know, what is, what is, what is, what is the the opposite of being woke. And that's the thing that I say to folks, like, why is there no pushback when they're like, oh, they're going to be the woke catch? So what is your preference for somebody to be asleep? What is your preference for us to be unconscious? Right? And because what does that allow you to do if the rest of us are in slumber? Right? It allows for you to run roughshot and have no accountability and no responsibility for the things that you do because ain't nobody paying attention.

So like I think that, you know, we have to reclaim words that we all. We have to reclaim words that we allow the radical right to take over. And then what, but what people do, like what, you know, white moderates want to do, and Democrats want to do is that they want to run from it. Oh, we're not woke. You know, we're just like everybody else. No, I'm not. No, I am not. And that is okay, right? Like, I don't want to go through my life asleep and neither should you, because I don't know what good comes to anybody when they don't live their lives consciously and on their own terms. So I think that there needs to be consistent pushback to that, to the negative connotation that folks have allowed white supremac on the right to attribute to a word that was birthed

out of black people deciding, right, and recognizing that like, you know, we live consciously. So what about the rest of you? Because while the rest of you get to walk around and pretend that like ain't nothing going on, We're the ones that have to look around and make sure that, like, we're as safe as we can possibly be. If black people were to walk around their lives in a slumber, we would all be dead, right? Like, so let us, you know, I think that it's important to push back against those negative connotations. And you do it every week and every day with both of your shows. And I'm so grateful for your work and grateful for your voice.

Danielle, where can folks keep up with all of your... the amazing stuff that you've got going on. Thank you. Yes, folks can keep up with me. Woke A.F is Monday through Friday. You can get that on anywhere that you get your podcast, whether it is on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher. If you want the video version of that daily show,

you can get that at patreon.com slash wokeAF, where the video show is up every single day. And then you can follow me on Twitter where I'm extraordinarily active at D2CEN, B-E-E-E-E-T-W-O-C-N-T-S. And newly to TikTok, Danielle Moody underscore. So you can check me out there, too, where I am getting very, very lit.

Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangooty.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of I-Heart Radio and unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy,

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