There Are No Girls on the Internet - Dave Chapelle isn’t “cancelled.” But a pregnant, Black, trans staffer was fired in the wake of his Netflix fallout

Episode Date: November 5, 2021

B. Pagels-Minor, a former Netflix program manager, was fired in the wake of Dave Chapelle’s transphobic comedy special. But B is still fighting to build power for trans and non-binary people.Read B���s piece in the Washington Post:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/21/netflix-walkout-b-pagels-minor-fired-chappelle/Donate to the Trans Lifeline:https://translifeline.org/donate/Donate to the Transgender Law Center: https://transgenderlawcenter.org/donate Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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your business. Call 844-844-I-Hart. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was honed. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

Then after that game seven, Markeep coming to him, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast.

And for Mental Health Awareness Month, we'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel about anxiety. I started living in my car, and then my car got stolen. I was having panic attacks. I was agoraphobic. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course. Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. Just a quick heads up. This episode was filmed while I was on medical bed rest, so it might sound a little bit different in terms of sound quality than the first. the rest of our episodes. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. After the release of Dave Chappelle's new comedy special The Closer on Netflix,

Netflix staffers and their ally spoke up about the specials transphobic material and organized a walkout. Chappelle doubled down in a newly released clip, where he said Netflix staff said they wanted a safer work environment, but that he's the only one who's not able to get into the building at Netflix anymore. Seems like I'm the only one that can't go to the office anymore. But you want to know someone who most definitely cannot get back into the Netflix building? B. Paggles Minor, a very pregnant Black Trans former program manager who Netflix fired for

alleging they were the source of a Bloomberg article about just how much money Netflix spent on the special. Now, B disputes this, as do their coworkers. And even after B was fired, Bloomberg continues to publish new internal metrics from Netflix, making it even more unlikely. B, along with Tara Field, a trans Netflix senior software engineer who was suspended for tweeting critically about the special, have filed suits with the National Labor Relations Board, saying that Netflix engaged in activity to quell employees from speaking off about working conditions, including seeking to create a safe and affirming work environment, speaking up about Netflix products,

and the impact its product choices have on the LGBTQ community, and providing support for employees whom Netflix has treated in an unlawful and. disparate manner. And as much as Dave Chappelle keeps talking about how he's being canceled, you know, naturally as one does from a massive stage in front of a massive adoring audience while earning millions for it, the demands of the Netflix staffers who walked out do not include asking Netflix to take down the comedy special. Instead, Netflix staffers are asking for things like comparable investment in trans and non-binary-led projects at Netflix and more trans and non-binary people in leadership positions. Be as clear that this is about so much.

more than one comedy special. So my name is B. Pagel's Minor. My pronoun are they, them, theirs. And my current title is Growing a Baby. And that's about it. So I read your Washington Post piece and I read the piece on your blog, both of which really talked about this journey for you really kind of fully embracing who you are. I guess one of my questions for you was like, what was it like to feel seen in that way? You know, to share this truth about yourself. Like, were you, did you feel seen working at Netflix? Was it something that, you know, felt like a good fit?

Yeah, you know, it's really interesting because I would say yes and no, right? So like in terms of the internal environment and Netflix, I definitely felt like I had a lot of support to be a black person, a trans person, a lesbian, you know, loud, you know, someone who dissents very loudly, things like, that but one of the complaints I've always had and something that obviously is coming up again here is the lack of content so it was so strange to be like this internal employee feel pretty validated feel pretty supported but then when I looked at the things that were on screen I didn't see anything that looked like me and that cognitive dissonance was one of the things that bothered me most about working there right you know I really wanted to say like you know first of all off the Mississippi there are black the majority of Mississippi is black, right? Majority of Mississippi is also rural. You know, why don't we have shows

about that? I watched P. Valley last year, and it was so funny because my friends were like, P. Valley doesn't seem like your type of show. I was like, it's about Black people in Mississippi. I was so excited. I was like, I finally get to see people who are like my family that I grew up around. And so it was always like that little bit of like, yes, I feel good because I have great benefits.

I have a great salary. I get to be loud. I'm doing some of the best work of my life. But no, because I really feel like we're missing the mark on showing representative lives of diverse types of people. Conversations around identity and representation at Netflix did not start with Dave Chappelle. Internally, Netflix staffers have been pushing these conversations about whose story gets told and by who and how for years. Like many companies, Netflix has employee resource groups or ERGs, employee-led initiatives within a company that work to create inclusivity along certain demographics and identities. There's dream at Netflix to champion immigrant representation,

black at Netflix, Lechayam at Netflix for Jewish representation, Vetsflix for veteran representation, indigenous at Netflix, and more. Transstar is the ERG that champions trans identity and representation at Netflix, that B helped lead. And after the release of the film Girl, a 2019 Belgian film about a trans ballet dancer that faced criticism for its depiction of things like body dysmorphia and self-harm in the trans community. It's so easy for people to think that these conversations happening internally around Netflix and the content they produce, sort of the way that the content represents or does not represent all folks, you know, trans identities, all of that. It's easy to think that those conversations began and ended with this Dave Chappelle special. But we know that's not true.

Can you give me a little bit of a history lesson of where these conversations that Netflix actually did start? So the trans-specific conversation started around the release of Girl. So the Girl movie, it was definitely a misrepresentation of transculture. And that's when, you know, it was almost three years ago. That's when people first started asking questions about, hey, like, why did we put that out there? This is harmful content. It's not true.

It's a terrible representation of transculture. Separately, I was also the ERG lead for Blackett, right? And the black ed is the oldest ERG out of all the ERGs. And they've been talking about that for like six or seven years. Right. So for six or seven years, they've been talking about black content, black representation, making sure content's there. So the conversation around content and having it be representative is in the DNA of

Netflix for diverse people who've worked there. The question is simply then, why the heck has it not moved forward? Like, why the heck have we not gotten to the point that the content really reflects all of this internal debate, internal conversation has been very, very robust. And in fact, when you actually think about it, you know,

a lot of the comments that have been made is, oh, well, Netflix is one of the first places that ever had a trans person. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, we know LeVern was on Oranges and New Black. You know, we know, you know, know me from Sense 8. But at the same time, if you can only name two or three, that's probably

not a good way to go about this. you know and then we also know when laverne was on oranges of new blacks they were dubbing her words with men in other countries right yes they really i did not know that and it was so offensive and for instance trans star is another great example of when trans star was consulted by the dubbing team and they were like so how should we deal with this in the future and we were like well you know we understand that in different countries in different languages it might be difficult to find someone who perfectly matches someone's voice. And if that is the case, just ask the person what they think.

You know, don't just make an arbitrary decision. Seek out support, create relationships, and honor people by letting them be represented in the way that makes most sense to them. Right. You know, that actually brings up a good point, which is that I was very surprised to hear that the trans employee resource group was not really consulted at all in the rollout of this special. And so part of me was like, why even have this group at next?

Netflix, if you're not going to actually empower them to be involved when things like this are rolled out. And so for the sake of argument, let's say that the trans employee resource group had been consulted during this rollout. Are there things that you could have seen y'all actually like suggesting to make this less harmful? Yeah. And that's been, that's actually been the number one point here. Like there's no desire to stop creative freedom, right? Like the simple fact is there are contracts. You move forward with the content based on those contracts. but there's no desire to stop them.

And so when I, you know, thought about it, when I first saw it, I was just like, why did y'all decide to release this in October during LGBTQ plus history month? Like, that's a terrible idea. You know, why did you not think about the term turf and how that, because that became the, like, the, like, claxon. Like, that became the thing that everyone was focused on. And in fact, it was external groups who were just like, you know, Dave Chappelle's a turf, Netflix released this.

It was all external people who were. completely in sense that they saw something with that. And so, like, you know, we could have said, you know, the TransDard group could have said, by the way, you may want to just cut that joke. Like, you know, you may want to like, you know, tweak that or like ask. And the thing is, and when I say that, I mean, talk to Dave about it and say, Dave, your bigger point is this like LGBTQ plus movement versus black movement.

And your point is going to get lost because of this statement. Right. And so it's about making the content get to his point versus having all of this furor around it. And so that's the thing. That's what TransStar does. That's what TransStar does. One of the other things that I did as TransStar lead was also to meet with content executives. And I call it the friendship offensive.

And all we would do is go have conversations with these folks and say, hey, we're humans. We're great. We can help you make great content. And I'm going to tell you some of the pieces of, you know, productions that are you. that we worked on, I know for a fact that they're so much better because we just sat down with those people and told them different ways and they would send us emails and say, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? And all we did was consult. You know, it was never, oh, like, you know, we are the, we are the barrier to this amazing thing being created.

It was how can we make it better so that Netflix's reputation isn't harmed so that trans people aren't harmed and so that people get a good message out of it? That's such a good point because the only thing I have heard about this comedy special is the transphobia and the turf comments and the JK Rowling comments. Whatever the other point Dave was trying to make, it did not reach me, it did not reach Twitter. And I have to wonder, like, was that actually, like, I feel like if he had been open to be thought partners with you all, his special would have been that much better, that much more, you know, just that one. much more truthful and authentic. And it's like, what a missed opportunity to make something better and also less harmful. Like, what a win-win that was just missed.

Yeah, I mean, one of the things I saw someone tweet, they were like, I haven't seen anyone drop a video, a gift, a meme of the special that had a joke in it. And they were like, how can the special be successful if they haven't dropped the single one? And I was like, you have a point. they've only dropped the really incendiary thing. And so to your point, it is true. Like, you know, I do feel like the special could have been so much more powerful if there had been that partnership. Because I do think, I understand what he's trying to say.

I disagree with it, right? Like, and I would say this because to a certain extent, the special is trying to pit LGBTQ plus versus the civil rights movement. I am a black trans person. I'm at the intersection of these two groups. I get screwed over by both groups, right? Like legitimately I get screwed over by both groups. And so I do think that this oppression Olympics, like one movement, hurting another movement,

I don't think that's true. In fact, if you think about the same-sex marriage law that went into effect many years ago, they actually, you know, use Loving versus Virginia as part of their logic behind it because they're saying that minority individuals deserve the same rights as anyone else in this country. And so I actually think that both the civil rights movement, the LGBTQ rights movement, movement are intrinsically linked and we would be empowered by uniting them versus assuming that one happens over the other one. And it just, I mean, I completely agree.

We're definitely, our movements are stronger together when we support each other. And it completely erases people at the intersections like yourself. Something about Dave's comedy seems to suggest that LGBT, the LGBT, it's like that book, all the women are white, all the men are black, right? Like all the LGBTQ folks are just default white. All of the black folks are default cis. And it's like it completely erases that people exist at those intersections in a way that I feel like it's so like 1997. Like get your attitudes and your ideas into 2021, you know?

Exactly. Exactly. And the simple fact is, you know, I think it was time like three or four years ago. They were talking about what the future of the world's going to look like. And all those people had melin it. Okay. Right. Like that's, I mean, let's just be truthful.

The way that the world is actually changing, the way that it's actually evolving. I mean, even Gen Z, such a large percentage of Gen Z around the world is completely open to not only LGBTQ plus people, but they're coming out increasingly earlier. Right. So, you know, you have like, you know, eight, nine, ten, 11, 12, 15, 16, you know, you're old come out and saying, yeah, I'm a part of the LGBTQ plus community, which is not something that. has ever happened before. The world is changing rapidly. Right. And so the fact that we continue to have these, like, very antiquated conversation is just very disturbing to me. And is a sign of how some people are, like, this is why you have to be thoughtful and you have to listen, right? Like, I am now considered an elder, like, because, you know, I'm over a certain age. I'm an elder now, right,

in my community. Because in the trans community, most, like, so there's been a statistic that says that many black trans people do not make it to the age of 35. I am not over 35. So I'm like a grandparent. Like that's how they perceive me. And it's just so interesting to me because even for me, I have to take a step back and listen to the younger people because they're like, you're more conservative than I am. And I was like, oh, I guess I am, right?

Because I grew up in a completely different generation. I came out much later because I was afraid and you don't have that through mechanism that keeps you from being your whole self. And I actually admire you. What do you mean me to help you with? Because you're so much further along than I was. And all I'm trying to do is make sure that you have a safe place to land. That's beautiful.

First of all, I would have never thought you were over 35. But that's so beautiful. You know, so that's black, don't crap. It's so true. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again.

More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think IHart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-4-4-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-Ehart. What's up, fam? This Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, in our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night bases on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you. you get your podcasts. There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast, and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we're dedicating a series to understanding the mind when it struggles. I'm joined by doctors, researchers, and those with lived experience. We'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel about anxiety. I started living in my car, and then my car got stolen. I was shoplifting. I was having panic attacks. I was like, And making it through hardship.

To be present is a learned skill, and it's hard to be present. We'll talk with John Nelson about clinical depression and the brain implant that saved his life. What I learned is that procedure made me happy because I'm disease-free. And we'll talk with leading experts like Judd Brewer about anxiety, and John Hirschfield about obsessive-compulsive disorder, and the science of how the brain can change. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course and what we can do about it. Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back.

In 1987, Eddie Murphy released his stand-up special Eddie Murphy Raw. And Murphy has this whole bit about how gay people didn't like his homophobic jokes and how whenever he goes out to parties or out on the town, he feels like there's going to be a stand-up. gay mob out looking for him. Only, he doesn't say gay people. He uses a slur. And there won't be no siren. It'll be a real fag sitting on the roof going. Woo, woo, woo, woo.

Now, something about this line, the idea of a gay person strapped at the top of a car as a siren really stuck with me. And the takeaway for me when I was watching was that gay people are basically less than human and that pointing this out is funny. I mean, like, listen to this crowd.

They were loving it. And I interpreted that making fun of gay people was a clear pathway to acceptance from others. Now, I was watching this when I was just a kid. I'd already known that something was up with me, but I had not yet come the terms with being a queer person. And I watched the way that these kinds of jokes about gay people got Eddie Murphy so much loud, clear acceptance from other black people.

And it was confusing to me at a time when I was already really confused. In 2019, Eddie Murphy actually revisited his past homophobic comedy routines. In an interview with The New York Times, he said that he looks back on all those old jokes in cringes. I was a young guy processing a broken heart, and kind of an asshole, he said. He apologized for spreading homophobia and ignorant comments about HIV,

saying that he's much more educated now. I now have a whole lifetime of experiences to draw upon. There was a time when I was at the center of everything, what I was doing, and how funny I was, and how popular I was. I'm not the center anymore, he said. Now, instead of rarely against being canceled by the PC police, He reflected. He evolved. There's this attitude I've heard over and over again

that what a comedian says on stage is just a joke. It doesn't have any real-world impact. Now, there are scores of studies that suggest otherwise. And B puts it another way. If someone is starting out from a place where many of the messages around them are telling them that they aren't even a full person, adding to that chorus makes things that much harder.

Something that I'm kind of almost sick of hearing is this idea that like, oh, it's just, just jokes, it's just jokes. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that study after study after study has shown a direct correlation between transphobic rhetoric and anti-trans violence. And so, you know, what do you say to people who are like, oh, comedy specials don't translate to real world harm? Like, like, what do you probably, I know that I have heard that argument over and over again. Like, what do we say to stuff like that? So first of all, we know that's not 100 percent true. Because if that was not, if that was true, then a five-year-old

deroguated our movie. Right? Like we know that the content on the screen impacts people. Now, the thing is, is that that doesn't mean that like today after they watch the special, they're going to go out and beat up someone who's trans. But that does mean that someone is forming an opinion about trans people based on the content that they're seeing and that they could be discriminatory towards trans people or they could be violent towards trans people later. We also know that the content that exists on the stream also internally impacts the people who are the target of that content. Right. So like, you know, we also think about self-harm. If you're seeing this type of content,

if you're seeing people talk about this and this type of dialogue and you already are in a place where you're not a whole person, right? You know, I was, when I first started out, I used to tell people, you know, naturally, I am, I wake up every day with my glass half empty, right? I'm a diverse person. I'm a multi-diverse person. And so I hear constantly whether it's about me being black and potentially being less than, whether it's about me being non-male and somehow not being strong, whether it's about me being trans and my differentness there, whether it's about me, you know, being mirrored to a woman and how different that is.

You know, what is you like about me being married to a white woman and how I've betrayed my race? Like, all of these things are coming through constantly. And so when you put out this content, all it's doing is trying to diminish the little bit that's in that glass, right? The little bit of hope in the dreams there. I'm very fortunate because I have an amazing support system and I have an amazing amount of education and fiscal ability because I've been so successful in technology for so long, that I've been able to fill that glass back up to almost full. But many people cannot. And so when you think about this content, all it's doing is diminishing the potential of those people. And then we lose out on

that potential. Like as a society, we are literally losing out on bright lights who could help change this world because of the content we're choosing to pursue out there without also making sure that we put out affirming content, too. How hard is it to make another pose? Really? Pose was pretty cheap. It was really cheap. We could make like five poses, and people would be so happy. That's such a good point. And I think it takes me to this idea that is obviously bullshit, but this idea that, oh, these Netflix staffers, they want to cancel Dave Chappelle. But when you actually look at the demands that staffers were putting forth at Netflix, it It's stuff like, you know, can we invest in a comparable way for trans and gender non-conforming

and non-binary creators? You know, can we elevate trans content, like the disclosure documentary, which I love, you know, can we promote that on the platform? It is such common sense things. And yet it gets sort of, I don't know, telephoned into they want to cancel Dave Chappelle. And I guess my question is, how do we combat this idea? when there are so many people who are just hell bent on believing the absolute worst about the intentions here.

Because when you actually look at the demands, it's just like what you're saying. Like, invest in trans and gender not conforming creators. And that will actually improve the platform. Netflix will be better for it. And yet that gets sort of mistranslated into something that's just that completely not true. I mean, Oprah said it best. Oprah was just like, there's just some people who are not going to convince. Right.

You're just not going to convince. That's not the people we're trying to convince. We're trying to find that middle ground of people. The middle ground of people who are still trying to learn to be educated, who just want to know more. And so that's the main thing I'm focusing on, right? The reason I agree to go on these podcasts and things like that is to spread this message. Because the people who listen to you, the people who are looking at the outfit,

those people are the ones who still have that ability to be swayed. And the thing about that is, is if we sway a few of those, people they're also related to them other people right and so hopefully they'll go in and say hey i want to hear that today right and and also this new thing hopefully if you know Netflix moves forward with meeting some of these demands there'll be a new piece of content out there at some point that they watch that has a trans character that they love just because it's a good show and then eventually that'll work out like this is a long term this is a marathon This is not a short-term thing.

We're not going to change everyone's mind short-term. And the thing is we shouldn't. If it was that easy to change people's minds, it wouldn't be such hard work. When you think about, you know, the other day, Whoopi Goldberg was talking about the civil rights movement, and she was talking about the fact that if we had waited for people to change their mind on the value of black people, black people still wouldn't have the right to vote today.

And I feel as though this is the same exact conversation. The same exact conversation that, you know, there's still so much movement we have to do for trans people, for black people, for women, for Latinx people, for Asian people. This is a nonstop marathon to have diverse people be seen as equal and have the equity they deserve in this country. The conditions that you all are creating, I think can create change that is lasting, this meaningful, that reverberates. It does not begin and end with Dave Chappelle's funky special. Like, this is a movement that that has longer term longevity.

And I just love to see that. And I feel like in every statement and, you know, thing that the staffers have put out that's been so salient to me. So I've just, like, loved to see that so much. You know, one of the things that I, it's kind of a personal pet peeve of mine. So many of the people that I talk to on this podcast, you know, they are marginalized people. They are historically underrepresented people.

They work in tech companies, tech platforms. they're the ones who are putting in all this hard work of making these companies and these platforms look progressive or woke or with it. Now, internally, they might be ostracized for this work. They might be punished for this work. They might be fired for this work. But the companies are super okay with taking credit for it and being like, yeah, we're a woke company. We're so progressive. Yeah, all of that.

You know, do you feel like that sort of happening here that it is staffers who are already marginalized, who are making, like, giving Netflix the shine to be like, oh, we are with it, woe, progressive, new, fresh, all of that, but also behind the scenes, punishing those same staffers? You know, the one thing I will say is that there had been an internal movement before I was like, go to start rewarding people who worked with ERGs financially, right? You know, to take that into account for their review. It was the first time I'd ever been at a company that it actually had that conversation.

But I will say that this is thankless work typically, right? You know, you're doing all this work to create an environment that's great, that makes the company look great. And a lot of people don't really see that as a part of your work. And so that's something that needs to change, right? Because ERG work, not only does it, you know, help the company see what's going wrong, but it also helps retain talent. I can't tell you how many times I was asked to participate in something, whether it was, you know, trans or black act that helped make sure that a person didn't leave Netflix, right? Because I was able to help negotiate and explain to people what was going on. You know, when it came to the company culture, making sure that they understood where the culture had issues. You know, that type of work is super, super important. And it also is something that, you know, is it's invaluable. Right? It's invaluable. There's no way to calculate how much that does for the company.

And so I do think that this is something companies really need to think about is. How do you figure out what that value is? Because it is a differentiator between you retaining someone and not retaining someone. People want to work at companies where they feel respected and safe. And I think that like that is a conversation that I feel like it's easy to be missed in this particular situation is that like I wouldn't, it doesn't surprise me that people are not necessarily feeling respected, listen to, seen, heard, valued, safe. And I feel like these days people are unwilling to attach themselves to companies that do not respect them. And I think that's great. But people want to feel respected in their workplaces.

And, you know, I saw that statement that the CEO of Netflix put out where he was like, oh, you know, I'd handle this badly, all of that. But not seeing the way that that trickles down to the staff. At the top decisions make people feel so disrespected and unseed and unheard and unvalued. And how there are people like yourself who are going in and plugging those leaks and doing the work of doing some recon and saying like, you know, are you thinking about leaving? How are you feeling? Like talk to me about where you're at, where your head is at, all of that. You know, that is valuable work. Yeah.

And not only that, but also his apology, which I will say is not an apology, said, like one of them was like, oh, it's because we've been working from home. they forgot how good they have it. And I was like, that's what an abusive relationship said. Yeah. Like, I didn't hit me today. So that you should appreciate me. And I'm just like, but you hit me the other day. Like, I don't, like it doesn't work like that.

So yeah, no, I definitely feel like, you know, it missed the mark, right? Because it really is more about how do you show up, right? You know, folks asked me like, what should those emails, those first memos or emails should have said? And I said, it's very simple. it should have said, hey, we dropped the ball on this one. We should have done a better job. Let's talk. And that's three sentences.

His actual memo was like two pages. It doesn't say nothing. Exactly. And so like that's the thing. Apologies are just apologies. Like you don't have to like, you don't have to be convoluted. You don't have to justify yourself. It is apologize.

Have a conversation. Figure out corrective action. Don't do it anymore. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get.

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And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows, without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when

they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. It's Ryder Strong and Wilfredel from PodMeets World. And now the PodMeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor.

I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Yeah. Just because we... Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion at the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay

to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of ha, hoo. Ha ha, ho. Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes.

Listen to Pod Meets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. I saw that Dave Chappelle said that he'd be willing to meet with Netflix staffers. That no longer includes you because Netflix fired you, unfortunately. Do you think that that would be like, would you be willing to meet with him? Do you feel like that would be fruitful or productive? Or would that be like, is that just like not even where your head is at? I mean, I'm telling me with him. The whole point of this is to educate people. Right. And Dave says that he cares.

errors, right? So that's some part of his statements too. He's like, this isn't me versus them. You know, this is about, you know, other things. And so I would be glad to meet with him. And also, I don't have to be there. I could also, you know, if he wants to reach out, I can help him connect next with the Netflix people as well because this isn't about me, right? This is about the work and the making sure this work gets done. And I hope that he would actually listen. And I think he had mentioned recently he was you know he said something like but you have to watch the special and i'm like we all have either read the transcript or watch the special so we've already done all of our homework i would ask him to look up what turf ideology actually means um and also understand a little bit

more about transgender biology you know just so we can actually start off on the same playing field in terms of you know what we're talking about but other than that i let's go for it in the piece that i've on your blog, you referenced this like really famous Baldwin quote, to be a Negro in this country is to be relatively conscious and to be relatively conscious is to be in the rage most of the time. And you kind of had your own spin on it. You said to be a black trans person in America is a study in courage and a fierce desire to not be forgotten. And so it just seems like black trans folks are so easily erased and forgotten, not just in this conversation, but everywhere. And, you know, y'all have always been here. Y'all are part of our history. And I guess I wonder, do you find

yourself feeling like you have to constantly create these monuments to your existence so that it doesn't get erased? And not just monuments to your existence, but this idea that, you know, black trans existence is more than just like trauma and pain, making, making sure that there's room for black trans joy, black trans dreams, black trans brilliance. Like, how do we build monuments to all, to be 360 degrees that is black transness? Yeah, you know, it's so funny. I was talking to my cousin because, you know, my cousin, he was talking about, you know, the special and how it didn't hit for him. And we started talking about black trans people. And on, you know, trans they have remembered. The majority of the names that's going to be read out as people who have been killed this year are black trans people. And it's so interesting because those people are just the people we know about. Those are the people who had someone who advocated for them. who said this person was a black person, this person was a trans person, because many people don't have legal name changes. Like they don't have any, they don't have people who are affirming

of their identity to represent their story. In fact, I was telling my cousin that I'm so fortunate because like my legal name is deep. Like this is the name I chose. My documents show that I'm a trans person. There's an entire reflection now in the Zyke, the zeitgeist that said that I am deep. So no one can take my story from me. Right. No one can take my story from me. And so that is the point is the fact that so many people live these amazing, colorful, beautiful lives that are cut short.

And because of the fact that as a society, we're not quite where we need to be to understand and be respectful of that identity. Right. It's actually really funny because people talk about that you should have privacy in your home. But what we actually talk about, like what we actually see for black trans people is that as soon as you die, your privacy goes away. You become a part of the public conversation and they choose who you are. And so that's the thing about all of this. It's about choice. It's like, why do we choose to harm?

Why do we choose to defame? Why do we choose to let people be forgotten when we know they existed and they should be honored as such? And so that is the real core piece of this. And so it's an increasing frustrating thing for me. Because even, you know, there's a young man from Mississippi who was killed recently. And his entire family misgendered him. And it's his family. It's his chosen family who has done this work to get out the message of who he was.

And I just think it's someone else from Mississippi who is just so fortunate that I get to control my story. I mean, it's like it was Hamilton. Who will tell your story? If Hamilton's wife wasn't so bombed, who knows? what we would know about Alexander Hamilton, right? Like, you know, that's the thing that's crazy about this. That's beautiful. B, where can folks support you, support black trans folks more broadly, and what should folks do to support the Netflix staffers who are continuing to speak out? So first and foremost, for the Netflix staffers continue to spread the message about what's really been asked for.

So if you look at Twitter, there's a trans at Netflix Twitter handle, and so that's the the ask are there. Continue to share those asks so that people can understand what the real ask is here. Two, watch trans things. So disclosure document is great. Also watch Pose because Pose really, so as a young black trans person coming up, Pose that actually definitely represents a lot of my communities that I first met and who helped me become cool because I was a dork. So I think that's really great. So support Black Transcontent, especially posed too. And then for just generally, this is just the beginning, right? So this is just the beginning. So there's a lot of organizations out there. So Trans LifeLines is a great organization. Howard Brown Health in Chicago is one of the premier

institutions treating trans folks and doing research on trans folks. The Transgender Law Center is also an amazing place to support too. They're doing really, really great work. Glad is a great place to support because they're trying to help talk about this media representation and change that. And then for me, I'm B. Pagel's Minor everywhere. Follow me on Twitter, you know, because that's rarely where I post a lot of content that I find that I think is very interesting. They can help people understand a little bit more context as well. But first and foremost, educate yourself. You know, if there's a curiosity that you have that you don't really know what's going on, chances are there's a document. There's someone who's tweeting about there's someone who can help

give you that context so that you can feel more comfortable. Because like, you know, this is a long journey. Like, you know, it's definitely not something that you figure out overnight. Okay. I actually have one last curb ball question for you. He struck me as someone who likes movies, likes TV, likes music. Do you remember a time when a piece of media or a piece of content or a piece of art made you feel seen and affirmed? POS is a great example of something for me where I cried when I first saw it. Like I could not believe that those were the like the the drag shows, the ballroom. I was just like this is this is literally what I first got exposed to. Right. So this is before I came out of trans because like I was I refused to acknowledge the fact that I was trans and I was in Memphis, Tennessee. I was home from college and my mother, my mother of all people took me to the club to see a drag show because she was, just like, I feel like you need to see this. I was like, Mama's no. They know.

They know. They know. Mons know. And so like, I end up doing to this drag show with my mother, which is really bomb. And I met a bunch of like a bunch of like the drag community, you know, who are also trans. And so some of the first things imposed, like literally feel like they were exactly the exact same thing from when I first came out or when I first started to discover that maybe I might be different. And so that's a huge thing.

And the second example, which is like really, strange and I don't know why I feel this way about this but the second example is purple rain. So I think it's because of princess androgyne and so like I kind of felt like you know I was like I felt a little scene and also it was so complicated right because he was like this brilliant artist but he's also so like messed up and like I just felt like I just really got it because like I just yeah and so I mean I watched I re-watched that movie like probably multiple times a year and the whole sound

track is like, that's my soundtrack. If I'm in a move, I got to listen to that soundtrack. B, you have no idea. If I could turn you around and show you all the different prince iconography in my apartment, Purple Rain is my thing, Prince is my thing. And again, like, Prince was someone who made me feel seen, especially in the black community because, you know, I grew up in the South and I grew up with my uncles making gay jokes and using slurs. And everybody liked Prince. Like, it didn't, like, even though there was, like, Prince was, like, Prince was, like, Prince was like, as my uncles would say

fruity, people fucked with Prince. And so to see the power that he had in our community was, it was intoxicating. I completely feel you on the Prince. Completely feel you. And, you know, and he could get anybody he wanted man, woman,

like, anybody in the whole world, I'm pretty sure Prince could walk into a room and just look at you, be like, I, okay, where we don't go? Yeah. I think that's the other part of it, is that it just completely redefined what masculinity, what femininity, what everything was. And I think that that's one of those things that he probably did more work

for so many different types of people than almost any other artists. And he wasn't trying to. Not a woman, not a man, something you'll never understand. The power of art, the power of representation, the power of art, the power of creativity, it's unmatched. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.

There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tarry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, write and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeartRadio app

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app. podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano.

It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis keep coming to you.

He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast,

and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel about anxiety. I started living in my car, and then my car got stolen. I was having panic attacks. I was agoraphobic. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course. Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio Act.

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ashanti Plummer from Fud Around and Find Out. This week, Aizy Fud and I sat down with Step and Curry. Step talks pressure, confidence, and what it really takes to stay great. There's different categories, I guess, so I'm like conditioning, shooting drills where you try to simulate kind of games. Look at her face.

We have a love-hate relationship with those because you know you're getting something out of it. You don't look forward to those days. Listen to Fudderon and Fisdardt. Find out on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.